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lollipopcurve
04-15-2012, 05:45 PM
OK, the team can't use the excuse that it doesn't have enough money to use the DL in borderline cases. Phillips was not ready to come back, and he clearly cannot run full speed. DL him. Cairo on an iffy hamstring should also be on the DL.

Bring two healthy players to St. Louis, Walt. Come on.

Ghosts of 1990
04-15-2012, 05:57 PM
We've got more iffy players than just poor injured Phillips and Cairo..... ;)

kbrake
04-15-2012, 05:59 PM
Apparently BP says he is fine and expects to start Tuesday.

lollipopcurve
04-15-2012, 06:08 PM
Apparently BP says he is fine and expects to start Tuesday.

He looked far from fine today. The guy is hard to get out of the lineup, and I appreciate that, but if he can't run the bases, he shouldn't be playing.

kbrake
04-15-2012, 06:19 PM
He looked far from fine today. The guy is hard to get out of the lineup, and I appreciate that, but if he can't run the bases, he shouldn't be playing.

Yeah I agree with what you're saying I was surprised to hear him say he feels fine.

TOBTTReds
04-15-2012, 06:46 PM
He looked far from fine today. The guy is hard to get out of the lineup, and I appreciate that, but if he can't run the bases, he shouldn't be playing.

He is better at 75% than his replacements at 100%. But if he has a possibility of hurting it more, then I agree he should be out. And at this point, I assume there is a greater risk.

mattfeet
04-15-2012, 06:47 PM
He is better at 75% than his replacements at 100%. But if he has a possibility of hurting it more, then I agree he should be out. And at this point, I assume there is a greater risk.

While true, BP playing at 75% is a HUGE risk that could lead to him on the DL at 110%.

-Matt

wheels
04-15-2012, 06:54 PM
They've got a lot of dough invested in him going into his brittle years. They should absolutely err on the side of caution.

Who do they bring up?

_Sir_Charles_
04-15-2012, 08:10 PM
They've got a lot of dough invested in him going into his brittle years. They should absolutely err on the side of caution.

Who do they bring up?

Valiaka. He's stroking the ball. So is Janish. Both hitting well over .350 IIRC.

~edit~ They've both tailed off a bit. Chris is right around .300 and Janish is at .333. Normally I'd say Frazier, but he's scuffling. Which could easily be due to him sulking (just a guess).

wheels
04-15-2012, 08:29 PM
Valiaka. He's stroking the ball. So is Janish. Both hitting well over .350 IIRC.

~edit~ They've both tailed off a bit. Chris is right around .300 and Janish is at .333. Normally I'd say Frazier, but he's scuffling. Which could easily be due to him sulking (just a guess).

Valiaka, please. I've seen enough of Soft J.

Edd Roush
04-15-2012, 09:18 PM
Valiaka, please. I've seen enough of Soft J.

If Valaika wasn't allergic to taking a walk, I would agree. However, that is one tool that I don't think he is likely to figure out while in the bigs. I know Willie Harris has been disappointing so far in his small sample with the Reds, but if Phillips can't go, I for one believe that he is the best replacement we have in house. Harris can get on base, plays solid defense and has some speed.

wheels
04-15-2012, 09:22 PM
If Valaika wasn't allergic to taking a walk, I would agree. However, that is one tool that I don't think he is likely to figure out while in the bigs. I know Willie Harris has been disappointing so far in his small sample with the Reds, but if Phillips can't go, I for one believe that he is the best replacement we have in house. Harris can get on base, plays solid defense and has some speed.

Can't argue with your summation, not a little bit.

powersackers
04-16-2012, 12:34 AM
As I just posted in the Minor League thread. I'd skip Janish, Negron and even Valaika for Didi Gregorius (1300 PAs in minors) and Henry Rodriguez (1800 PAs in minors). DL Cairo, release Willie Harris and bring these youngsters up. They are both already 22 years old.

cinreds21
04-16-2012, 01:37 AM
But it would, in theory, halt their development to just sit on the bench. It's all about their prospects getting their at-bats. Then again, the Reds have known to sit players in the big leagues (Alonso, Frazier)

Edd Roush
04-16-2012, 08:19 AM
As I just posted in the Minor League thread. I'd skip Janish, Negron and even Valaika for Didi Gregorius (1300 PAs in minors) and Henry Rodriguez (1800 PAs in minors). DL Cairo, release Willie Harris and bring these youngsters up. They are both already 22 years old.

Wait, let me get this straight. You want to cut a guy who had a .351 OBP last year in the bigs and OBPs of at least .344 for four of the previous five years before that just because he has had 18 underwhelming PAs to start the season?

You realize that Didi's career OBP is just .323... in the minors. Henry Rodriguez does have a more impressive bat than Didi, but then again, he hasn't yet even had the chance to hit AAA pitching.

I think the 4-6 start has made us too reactionary on Redszone. Willie Harris is a solid major league baseball player, a bad 18 PAs has done nothing to alter my view of him and I am certainly not going to cut a solid major league baseball player for two guys still getting their feet wet in Pensacola.

Vottomatic
04-16-2012, 12:05 PM
Sometimes Walt and Bob run the Reds like a junior varsity team. It gets old.

Questionable managerial moves since Dusty got here. Terrible management of the DL. It just goes on and on and on. No wonder the Cardinals make us look bad.

OesterPoster
04-16-2012, 02:00 PM
Sometimes Walt and Bob run the Reds like a junior varsity team. It gets old.

Questionable managerial moves since Dusty got here. Terrible management of the DL. It just goes on and on and on. No wonder the Cardinals make us look bad.

You mean like how they're handling Lance Berkman and his injury? It might drive us nuts with how the Reds handle the DL, but all teams do it. The Cardinals have essentially played almost a full week with a 24 man roster.

11larkin11
04-17-2012, 02:32 AM
People really need to watch other teams from time to time. Every team complains about their manager. Every manager has flaws. Every team has flaws. Every player has flaws.


I'm quite glad our manager isn't talking about how much he admires a Communist Dictator. Or one who is calling out his longtime fan favorite who is one of the hardest workers in the game for not working hard.

Nope our manager just leaves a pitcher in too long because "he was the worst pitcher in the league last year and he should know he was about to implode even though he was pitching a gem going into that inning." Then the next game, he pulled THE SAME PITCHER too fast because "he was pitching a gem and he would have got the next guy out for sure."

Dusty is obviously this year's RZ whipping boy.

redsmetz
04-17-2012, 05:19 AM
It does appear some folks are just intent this year on being unhappy about everything. A lousy start will do that. But the type of injury Phillips had is one of those "no man land" type injuries that clubs often look to go "day to day" on - 15 days is a long time. On one hand, treatment keeps a guy out for a week and with treatment, a player's back on the field good as new. Or not; it remains a nagging thing. Couple that with Cairo's injury, with one game left in a series & we're in full panic mode. So Phillips comes back, presumably ready and, not surprisingly as these things can go, probably not. Yesterday we have an off day to see how things are - after all, we're told Phillips did not reinjure himself, although it's clear he's not 100%.

Cairo made clear he wouldn't be surprised to be DL'ed, particularly given we've got two guys down. From the Enquirer report, “With Brandon hurting, we’re two players down,” he said. “I’ll do whatever is best for the team. We’ll see Tuesday.”

And none of these factors in MLB rules viz the DL. You can't just bring a guy back from it if he's done early (barring another injury). My guess would be that virtually every club would have handled this situation identically to how the Reds did. This isn't fantasy baseball where you click a button and undo it.

Folks are just looking for anything in this storm right now.

mth123
04-17-2012, 05:23 AM
It does appear some folks are just intent this year on being unhappy about everything. A lousy start will do that. But the type of injury Phillips had is one of those "no man land" type injuries that clubs often look to go "day to day" on - 15 days is a long time. On one hand, treatment keeps a guy out for a week and with treatment, a player's back on the field good as new. Or not; it remains a nagging thing. Couple that with Cairo's injury, with one game left in a series & we're in full panic mode. So Phillips comes back, presumably ready and, not surprisingly as these things can go, probably not. Yesterday we have an off day to see how things are - after all, we're told Phillips did not reinjure himself, although it's clear he's not 100%.

Cairo made clear he wouldn't be surprised to be DL'ed, particularly given we've got two guys down. From the Enquirer report, “With Brandon hurting, we’re two players down,” he said. “I’ll do whatever is best for the team. We’ll see Tuesday.”

And none of these factors in MLB rules viz the DL. You can't just bring a guy back from it if he's done early (barring another injury). My guess would be that virtually every club would have handled this situation identically to how the Reds did. This isn't fantasy baseball where you click a button and undo it.

Folks are just looking for anything in this storm right now.

Nice post. I'd guess they'll DL Cairo and try to keep Phillips in the line-up. I wish they had a lefty to call-up, but I'd guess Frazier, even with his poor start, will get the call.

OesterPoster
04-17-2012, 09:19 AM
Frazier is on the flight to St. Louis with Mark Sheldon, so apparently he's getting the call.

lollipopcurve
04-19-2012, 07:25 AM
Phillips will get better faster if he goes on the DL. Playing him every day -- and moving him to the 4 hole at the same time -- is absurd, IMO. I can't believe they're going to let him keep going out there at 60%....

The 15-day disabled list is there for a reason.

redsmetz
04-19-2012, 08:25 AM
Phillips will get better faster if he goes on the DL. Playing him every day -- and moving him to the 4 hole at the same time -- is absurd, IMO. I can't believe they're going to let him keep going out there at 60%....

The 15-day disabled list is there for a reason.

I don't have cable, so I don't ever get to see the games live (and I turned off the radio after Latos poor start last night), so I can't see how Phillips is actually playing, but I think we probably would be better served DL'ing Brandon and letting him heal fully.

For that matter, after seeing the box score for Bray, I wonder if he shouldn't be DL'ed too. But again, I haven't seen him actually throw.

lollipopcurve
04-19-2012, 08:35 AM
For that matter, after seeing the box score for Bray, I wonder if he shouldn't be DL'ed too. But again, I haven't seen him actually throw.

I spiked the game long before Bray came in last night, but I can tell you that in the previous game was not himself. Could not throw the slider, which is his money pitch.

Agree 100% that he should not be out there right now.

Do players have to agree to go on the DL?

Chip R
04-19-2012, 09:17 AM
Do players have to agree to go on the DL?

Yes.

dougdirt
04-19-2012, 01:22 PM
http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/2012/04/19/419-at-stl/
Dusty on Phillips and the DL

“There’s always concern,” Baker said. “I don’t anybody that hasn’t played with a hammy or a quad or something. You could put him on the DL and you still won’t know when [it will be all better]. That’s the thing about baseball, once you hurt something, it usually stays hurt a long time. You don’t have a week [between games] to reciperate. There’s concern. That’s why I told him to play smart with your stride. Have no sudden stops or starts. If you’re out on a double play, just be out so you can play again. I told him if they boo you for not hustling, don’t pay attention to them because you want to play another day.

“I’ve never been on the DL so I gave him instruction on how to play hurt. When he was out, everybody was asking when he would come back and how come he’s not back yet? Now everybody is asking if there is any fear of hurting him. You can’t have it both ways.”

lollipopcurve
04-19-2012, 01:38 PM
“There’s always concern,” Baker said. “I don’t anybody that hasn’t played with a hammy or a quad or something. You could put him on the DL and you still won’t know when [it will be all better]. That’s the thing about baseball, once you hurt something, it usually stays hurt a long time. You don’t have a week [between games] to reciperate. There’s concern. That’s why I told him to play smart with your stride. Have no sudden stops or starts. If you’re out on a double play, just be out so you can play again. I told him if they boo you for not hustling, don’t pay attention to them because you want to play another day.

“I’ve never been on the DL so I gave him instruction on how to play hurt. When he was out, everybody was asking when he would come back and how come he’s not back yet? Now everybody is asking if there is any fear of hurting him. You can’t have it both ways.”

I would have more faith in hearing from the medical staff than the manager. The situation perplexes me, and Baker's take on it only perplexes my perplexion.

klw
04-19-2012, 01:43 PM
Phillips tweeted this morning that his leg is feeling "better and better."

http://twitter.com/#!/DatDudeBP

Brandon Phillips ‏ @DatDudeBP

GoodMorning... Thank You LORD!!! Hammy feeling better & better each day. Now just need to get timing right & we have lift off!!! #InDueTime

dougdirt
04-19-2012, 01:45 PM
Phillips tweeted this morning that his leg is feeling "better and better."

http://twitter.com/#!/DatDudeBP

Brandon Phillips ‏ @DatDudeBP

He said something similar a day before he started playing again.

Fay tweeted earlier today that he could tell it was still bothering him in BP today.