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TOBTTReds
04-16-2012, 07:04 PM
Since we all love to hammer Dusty for his confusing (at best) lineups, we should post our suggestions. I also happen to like mine. :D

Assume Phillips is healthy, and you only have the current 25 man roster.

1. Phillips
- Seems to do well in this role, wouldn't have guessed
2. Cozart
- Really like him at two, but needs to have some better AB's in situational hitting, and in general (not really complaininig about our guy with the best AVG.)
3. Votto
4. Bruce
- Unless a team has a DEADLY LHRP, otherwise, this is a no-brainer. Even with great LHRP, I'd still do this
5. Heisey
- Ludwick about twice a week, but NEVER vs. a RHP. Ludwick's D is pretty poor as well (see Gio Gonzalez hit).
6. Rolen
7. Mesoraco
- He gets my majority of time. He's the future, and defensively has been so impressive to me. Let's see if he can get in a rhythm at the plate too.
8. Stubbs
- This is my biggest change that I think would effect the game as much as any move other than moving Rolen out of 4. Would love to have his speed at 8. He may get on base more with pitch arounds or IBB. Also a pitcher would never bunt into a Fielder's Choice because he'd be on 2nd in no time, and fielders wouldn't even risk throwing to 2nd. He could also steal before the sac attempt, then be sac'd to 3rd.
9. Pitcher

Let's see them...and disagreements with mine?

BCubb2003
04-16-2012, 07:22 PM
I'd still move Rolen up one, and I like Stubbs at 8.

reds44
04-16-2012, 07:29 PM
Heisey
Cozart
Votto
Phillips
Bruce
Rolen
Mes
Stubbs

VottoFan54
04-16-2012, 07:29 PM
I would like to see a lineup like this:

Cozart
Mes/Hanigan (I would play Mes 60% of the time)
Votto
Phillips
Bruce
Ludwick
Heisey
Pitcher

I would like to see Stubbs get less AB's and have both Ludwick and Heisey in the lineup. Whoever is cold should be the guy that sits between those three.

I like Mes/Hanigan in the 2 hole because they have good OBP skills as well as decent power for Mes. I think they would both do really well with a guy like Votto behind them in the lineup. The catchers lack speed, but we don't run a whole lot anyways, so it shouldn't matter too much.

TOBTTReds
04-16-2012, 07:40 PM
Heisey
Cozart
Votto
Phillips
Bruce
Rolen
Mes
Stubbs

I like BP in the 4-hole too, but Heisey leading off could be a disaster. .309 OBP last year and below league average pitches seen last year (BP was lower though too). Heisey also lead the team in worst contact percentage (other than Gomes). I'd rather not have leadoff guy be a huge strikeout threat unless there are other rewards on the other end (good on-base skills).

Degenerate39
04-16-2012, 07:47 PM
1. Cozart (SS)
2. Rolen (3B)
3. Bruce (RF)
4. Votto (1B)
5. Phillips (2B)
6. Stubbs (CF)
7. Heisey (LF)
8. Mesigan (C)
9. Chapman (P)

kbrake
04-16-2012, 07:51 PM
1. BP
2. Cozart
3. Votto
4. Bruce
5. Ludwick
6. Rolen
7. Mes
8. Stubbs

Vottomatic
04-16-2012, 07:54 PM
1. Cozart (SS)
2. Bruce (RF)
3. Phillips (2B)
4. Votto (1B)
5. Heisey (CF)
6. Ludwick (LF)
7. Rolen (3B)
8. Mesigan (C)

dougdirt
04-16-2012, 08:39 PM
1. Phillips - At least for now. I liked his approach at leadoff when he moved there last year. He actually adapted to a more patient role.
2. Cozart
3. Votto
4. Bruce
5. Left Fielder of the Day
6. Rolen
7. Catcher
8. Stubbs
9. Pitcher

cincrazy
04-16-2012, 08:44 PM
Cozart
Bruce
Votto
Phillips
Ludwick
Heisey
Rolen
Mesoraco
Pitcher

I don't think Cozart is a great leadoff guy, but I don't think he's that much worse than Phillips in that position. With Bruce hitting second, I think he'll get good pitches to hit while hitting in front of Votto. When hitting in the 2 spot before, Bruce has absolutely raked. I don't think it's a coincidence. I don't think Phillips is the perfect leadoff guy or cleanup hitter, but on this particular team, he brings more to the table as the guy hitting behind Joey. SOMEBODY that is capable of hitting and breathing at the same time has to be able to hit behind Votto. And I think Phillips is the best bet to come through in that spot.

Spots 5-9.... meh. Almost interchangeable. I have Heisey in the lineup over Stubbs until Stubbs gets cured of his blindness. Rolen is hitting 6th, but in reality he could hit as low as 8. It's not the perfect lineup by any means. But better than the one we've been trotting out lately.

HokieRed
04-16-2012, 08:54 PM
Phillips
Cozart
Votto
Bruce
Ludwick (most every day)
Rolen
Heisey, if in center, otherwise the C's
Stubbs, if in center, otherwise the C's

mth123
04-16-2012, 09:17 PM
Vs RHP

Phillips 2B
Cozart SS
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Ludwick LF
Heisey CF
Mesoraco/Hanigan C
Rolen 3B

Vs L

Phillips 2B
Cozart SS
Votto 1B
Stubbs CF
Bruce RF
Mesoraco/Hanigan C
Rolen 3B
Heisey LF

If Cozart falls to Earth, I'd consider switching he and Rolen in both orders.

Nathan
04-16-2012, 09:18 PM
Phillips: Why not?
Meseroco: More strikes hitting in front of
Votto: "The Best There Is, The Best There Was, and The Best There Ever Will Be"
Bruce: Protects "The Best"
Cozart: (See Phillips)
LF: If Hanigan is playing, interchangeable with #2 spot
Rolen: Aging veteran who's lost something with the bat
Stubbs: For Defensive purposes only. Would also be the guy I'd want on base should there be a bunting situation (for the pitcher).

Edd Roush
04-17-2012, 08:59 AM
Phillips
Rolen - I think he is going to rebound and have a higher OBP than Cozart come the end of the year
Votto
Bruce
Ludwick
Hanigan/Mes
Stubbs
Cozart

I hope Cozart keeps this up, but I don't see an OBP over .330 for him this year. Again, I hope I am wrong. I also think we will see a rebound from most of our other hitters. I do like Ludwick over Heisey, though.

Orenda
04-17-2012, 09:49 AM
vs rhp

1. phillips- his overall offensive game plays well here, could care less how many bases he steals, he's fast enough to score from 2nd on a single. I could see Phillips leading the pack in OPS from the top of the order at years end
2. Cozart- until proven otherwise, if he fails, then magic 8 ball it.
3. Bruce- face it, Votto "protects" himself in the lineup and this could help raise Bruce's game
4. Votto- I'd anticipate Jay's numbers to increase hitting in front of Votto and if an opposing team wants to walk Votto to put another runner on, then so be it.
5. ludwick/rolen/Heisey/ soup of the day-
6. ludwick/ rolen/ Heisey/soup of the day-
7. Mesigan
8. Stubbs- or as i call him M. Night Shymalans "Signs", Swing away Stubbs, Swing Away
9. Dontrelle Willis/ Micah Owings


vs lhp

1. Phillips
2. Cozart
3. Votto
4. Heisey/ludwick/ Rolen
5. Bruce
6. Rolen/ heisey/ ludwick
7 Mesigan
8 Signs
9 Arroyo

WildcatFan
04-17-2012, 09:54 AM
Phillips
Cozart
Votto
Bruce
Rolen
Ludwick
Hanigan
Stubbs

In the offseason, if you had told me Cozart was going to rake in front of Votto, I'd have put that lineup up against anyone in the NL. Unfortunately I have very little faith in Stubbs and Rolen right now, and I'm still on the fence about Ludwick/Heisey.

Orenda
04-17-2012, 10:54 AM
vs rhp

1. phillips- his overall offensive game plays well here, could care less how many bases he steals, he's fast enough to score from 2nd on a single. I could see Phillips leading the pack in OPS from the top of the order at years end
2. Cozart- until proven otherwise, if he fails, then magic 8 ball it.
3. Bruce- face it, Votto "protects" himself in the lineup and this could help raise Bruce's game
4. Votto- I'd anticipate Jay's numbers to increase hitting in front of Votto and if an opposing team wants to walk Votto to put another runner on, then so be it.
5. ludwick/rolen/Heisey/ soup of the day-
6. ludwick/ rolen/ Heisey/soup of the day-
7. Mesigan
8. Stubbs- or as i call him M. Night Shymalans "Signs", Swing away Stubbs, Swing Away
9. Dontrelle Willis/ Micah Owings


vs lhp

1. Phillips
2. Cozart
3. Votto
4. Heisey/ludwick/ Rolen
5. Bruce
6. Rolen/ heisey/ ludwick
7 Mesigan
8 Signs
9 Arroyo

slight change, on second thought, I'd have the pitcher hit 8th and Signs hit 9th.

Needless to say, this will cause much commotion. If i were the manager the post game presser would probably go something like this

beat writer: what was the thought process hitting Jay 3rd and droppin Stubbs to 9th?

Spartacus Anderson: Because im (explicitive) wild, I hope you're feeling spry the next time you ask that question.

Needless to say, I'll never be a MLB manager and Dusty is way too classy for this, so I'd like to think his presser would go something like this

beat writer: Dusty, what was the thought process hitting Jay 3rd and droppin Stubbs to 9th?

Dusty: We'll your editor called and he mentioned you've been performing below replacement level, I figured this might help you sell more papers. Plus...I'm a Gemini

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2012, 10:57 AM
1. Votto
2. Votto
3. Votto
4. Votto
5. Votto
6. Votto
7. Votto
8. Votto

And then just employ Ghost Runners. It always worked in my backyard.

mth123
04-17-2012, 08:20 PM
1. Votto
2. Votto
3. Votto
4. Votto
5. Votto
6. Votto
7. Votto
8. Votto

And then just employ Ghost Runners. It always worked in my backyard.

Votto played in your back yard?:eek:

AtomicDumpling
04-18-2012, 12:47 AM
vs LHP:

1. Cozart -- if he keeps his OBP at .330 or better, otherwise move him down.
2. Votto -- his OBP is wasted when batting with two outs in the 3rd slot. More ABs = More runs scored.
3. Bruce -- I don't care about lefty-righty spacing, just get your best hitters the max plate appearances.
4. Phillips -- does most of his damage vs LHPs
5. Hanigan/Mesoraco -- Hanigan is a good OBP guy, Mes will have power.
6. Stubbs -- also does most of his damage vs LHPs
7. Rolen -- fewer ABs to keep him healthier.
8. Heisey/Ludwick -- These guys don't hit lefties well.
9. Pitcher


vs RHP:

1. Phillips -- not ideal at leadoff but the Reds don't have an ideal lead-off hitter.
2. Bruce -- Gets some protection from Votto. Gets an extra 45 PAs per year vs batting 5th.
3. Votto -- he is the best option for every slot in the order.
4. Ludwick -- hits better vs RHP so he gets moved up in the lineup.
5. Cozart -- if he keeps his OBP at .330 or better, otherwise move him down.
6. Hanigan/Mesoraco
7. Rolen -- fewer ABs to keep him healthier.
8. Heisey/Stubbs -- These guys stay down here unless they earn their way up higher in the order.
9. Pitcher

alexad
04-18-2012, 12:50 AM
I try leading Bruce off or Rolen just to shake it up. Or bat Dunn 2nd..... Wait a minute tried that done that......

flyer85
04-18-2012, 01:05 PM
Phillips
Cozart
Votto
Bruce
Mesoraco
LF
Rolen
Stubbs

RichRed
04-18-2012, 01:08 PM
vs LHP:

1. Cozart -- if he keeps his OBP at .330 or better, otherwise move him down.
2. Votto -- his OBP is wasted when batting with two outs in the 3rd slot. More ABs = More runs scored.
3. Bruce -- I don't care about lefty-righty spacing, just get your best hitters the max plate appearances.
4. Phillips -- does most of his damage vs LHPs
5. Hanigan/Mesoraco -- Hanigan is a good OBP guy, Mes will have power.
6. Stubbs -- also does most of his damage vs LHPs
7. Rolen -- fewer ABs to keep him healthier.
8. Heisey/Ludwick -- These guys don't hit lefties well.
9. Pitcher


vs RHP:

1. Phillips -- not ideal at leadoff but the Reds don't have an ideal lead-off hitter.
2. Bruce -- Gets some protection from Votto. Gets an extra 45 PAs per year vs batting 5th.
3. Votto -- he is the best option for every slot in the order.
4. Ludwick -- hits better vs RHP so he gets moved up in the lineup.
5. Cozart -- if he keeps his OBP at .330 or better, otherwise move him down.
6. Hanigan/Mesoraco
7. Rolen -- fewer ABs to keep him healthier.
8. Heisey/Stubbs -- These guys stay down here unless they earn their way up higher in the order.
9. Pitcher

I like this a lot.

MikeS21
04-18-2012, 03:43 PM
Honestly, I'd keep the batting order "as is." Rearranging the deck chairs isn't going to solve the problem. The whole team is in a funk right now and eventually they will get out of it. But right now, no one is looking impressive - including Votto or Bruce. The law of averages say it isn't going to be this bad all year.

The fun part of all this will be that when the offense starts heating up and scoring runs, the pitching will go into a slump.

reds44
04-18-2012, 11:21 PM
Heisey
Mesoraco
Votto
Cozart
Bruce
Phillips
Rolen
Stubbs

WVRedsFan
04-18-2012, 11:28 PM
I can't see where a lineup will change anything. We saw that tonight. Heisey or Stubbs? Pick your poison. Rolen or Whoever? Ludwig or Heisey? None of those are hitting.

WVRedsFan
04-18-2012, 11:29 PM
No Dusty comments after the game. No interview. Things must be bad.