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View Full Version : Is there a Chapman plan?



Captain13
04-20-2012, 02:41 PM
Maybe this is giving too much credit to Walt and Dusty, but I heard this idea somewhere (MLB Network?). Aroldis Chapman would have a strict inning limit if he was a starter this year, so instead of shutting Chapman down in August (Strasburg, Leake, etc.) start the season in the bullpen and then in June or July make the move to the rotation.

I like the idea, and hope that the FO was really using forsight and not just being stupid when they moved Chap to the pen.

Ironman92
04-20-2012, 02:44 PM
Maybe this is giving too much credit to Walt and Dusty, but I heard this idea somewhere (MLB Network?). Aroldis Chapman would have a strict inning limit if he was a starter this year, so instead of shutting Chapman down in August (Strasburg, Leake, etc.) start the season in the bullpen and then in June or July make the move to the rotation.

I like the idea, and hope that the FO was really using forsight and not just being stupid when they moved Chap to the pen.

I wouldn't mind it...but why so secretive?.....and why have Chapman throwing 85 pitches in spring training and then pitch relief for 2 months and then have to work him back up?

brm7675
04-20-2012, 03:39 PM
There is no plan, there never has been a plan.

R_Webb18
04-20-2012, 04:20 PM
There is no plan, there never has been a plan.

or u mean theres not ur plan. u might not like there plan but yea theres always a plan.

The Rage
04-20-2012, 04:22 PM
The Reds act like they are scared to start Chapman.

R_Webb18
04-20-2012, 04:24 PM
The Reds act like they are scared to start Chapman.

just b/c he's never started does not mean there scared.

The Rage
04-20-2012, 04:27 PM
just b/c he's never started does not mean there scared.

Yeah, except they moved him from starting in freaking June and had him pitch out of the pen to his callup very late in the 2010 season. It was like they were scared of something.

With all they invested in him, you would think they would want him to start at some point to get full value back for the investment.

brm7675
04-20-2012, 04:36 PM
or u mean theres not ur plan. u might not like there plan but yea theres always a plan.

Really? Lets see he starts in AAA in 2010 but then is put in the pen, then spends all last season in the pen only pitching like something around 60 innings, then the reds say he is going to the starter role and even have him pitch in ST as a starter then wham back to the pen to start the season and has only pitched in 5 games...yea what a plan...please neither Walt nor Dusty have a clue on what to do with this kid at All.:thumbdown:

You want to see a plan for a young player with a dynamic arm..See TB and how they handled David Price...that is a plan of action and execution....something the Reds have no clue how to do.

CU2morrownite
04-20-2012, 05:21 PM
Chapman would have been a starter if Madson hadn't gone down for the season. Odds are he'll be in the rotation when Masset returns.

The Rage
04-20-2012, 05:46 PM
Chapman would have been a starter if Madson hadn't gone down for the season. Odds are he'll be in the rotation when Masset returns.

Yes, but who is he going to replace? That is the problem. The Reds had such a surplus of pitching, they used 2 of the arms(Volquez and Wood)......to bring in another starter.

The Reds probably need to trade Leake or Bailey for a bat. But they also need them starting to showcase them.

brm7675
04-20-2012, 06:05 PM
Chapman would have been a starter if Madson hadn't gone down for the season. Odds are he'll be in the rotation when Masset returns.

What if Masset doesn't return? Things are not going well with his rehab, right now if there are no more issues it will be June before he is back and that is on teh positive side.

DocRed
04-20-2012, 06:28 PM
The rest of MLB is basically laughing at the Reds for not starting Chapman.....

The Rage
04-20-2012, 06:31 PM
The rest of MLB is basically laughing at the Reds for not starting Chapman.....

Maybe, but what if he just isn't a good "starter" and is a better pitcher in the bullpen? Who knows how he would react to having to pace himself and throwing 100+ pitches every game. In 2010, he got more fatigued the season went rather than getting stronger. That may have been a yellow caution light to the Reds brass.

brm7675
04-20-2012, 06:48 PM
Maybe, but what if he just isn't a good "starter" and is a better pitcher in the bullpen? Who knows how he would react to having to pace himself and throwing 100+ pitches every game. In 2010, he got more fatigued the season went rather than getting stronger. That may have been a yellow caution light to the Reds brass.

He got fatigued because he was pitching out of the pen in 2010 which he had never done and is not something that is easy to transition to in the quick manner the Reds forced him. HAD the Reds left him in AAA for 2010 as a starter he could have built up arm strength, and lets go with having him in the pen in 2010 was a good idea, then in 2011 you put him in AAA and he builds up arm strength. Again the talent is there, this franchise has just wasted it.

dubc47834
04-20-2012, 07:00 PM
Maybe, but what if he just isn't a good "starter" and is a better pitcher in the bullpen? Who knows how he would react to having to pace himself and throwing 100+ pitches every game. In 2010, he got more fatigued the season went rather than getting stronger. That may have been a yellow caution light to the Reds brass.

Don't know how true it is, but I had heard that when he was in Cuba they used him for 4-5 innings then pulled him. Don't know if it's true or not, but if it is it could be a that's the way they play there or that he didn't have the stamina. I don't know, i would like to see him in the rotation, but understand with the injuries right now.

brm7675
04-20-2012, 07:02 PM
Don't know how true it is, but I had heard that when he was in Cuba they used him for 4-5 innings then pulled him. Don't know if it's true or not, but if it is it could be a that's the way they play there or that he didn't have the stamina. I don't know, i would like to see him in the rotation, but understand with the injuries right now.

Outside of Massett what injuries? We lost Madsen and Marshall takes his spot. So we are using Chapman to replace Massett? Isn't Massett a righty? Why not see what Hoover could do? Heck I would see if Francis could pitch out of the BP, he is a lefty...

dubc47834
04-20-2012, 07:11 PM
Outside of Massett what injuries? We lost Madsen and Marshall takes his spot. So we are using Chapman to replace Massett? Isn't Massett a righty? Why not see what Hoover could do? Heck I would see if Francis could pitch out of the BP, he is a lefty...

Chapman is a proven commodity to me. With Madson and Massett both injured and Bray hurting(I say that loosely), I just think Chapman is a proven guy for the 8th inning. Don't know much about Hoover and I'm not a fan of the other guy we picked up at the end of spring training, can't remember his name for the life of me, guess that tells ya how much I think of him.

brm7675
04-20-2012, 07:52 PM
Chapman is a proven commodity to me. With Madson and Massett both injured and Bray hurting(I say that loosely), I just think Chapman is a proven guy for the 8th inning. Don't know much about Hoover and I'm not a fan of the other guy we picked up at the end of spring training, can't remember his name for the life of me, guess that tells ya how much I think of him.

You mean Simon from the O's. Middle inning relievers are a dime a dozen, it's one inning you are wanting to waste the talents of Chapman on? I would much rather see him mowing down hitters for 5-6-7 innings every 5th day.

dubc47834
04-20-2012, 08:13 PM
You mean Simon from the O's. Middle inning relievers are a dime a dozen, it's one inning you are wanting to waste the talents of Chapman on? I would much rather see him mowing down hitters for 5-6-7 innings every 5th day.

I've stated why I am cool with Chappy being in the pen right now. I don't expect you to change your opinion causemit won't happen. It doesn't mean I'm cool with being sub .500 or that I'm a worse fan than you. It just means we have a difference of opinion on this. This is my last post in this thread.
:beerme:

RedsFan_26
04-20-2012, 08:15 PM
You mean Simon from the O's. Middle inning relievers are a dime a dozen, it's one inning you are wanting to waste the talents of Chapman on? I would much rather see him mowing down hitters for 5-6-7 innings every 5th day.

Then why not trade Bailey to open up a spot for Chapman to mow hitters down every 5th day? Why are you proposing that we trade Chapman instead of making a trade that we could still get something in return that would help this team while unleashing Chapman's potential as a starter?

The Rage
04-20-2012, 08:56 PM
Then why not trade Bailey to open up a spot for Chapman to mow hitters down every 5th day? Why are you proposing that we trade Chapman instead of making a trade that we could still get something in return that would help this team while unleashing Chapman's potential as a starter?

To late now. If they were going to trade Bailey(or Mike Leake for that matter) for a extra bat, they should have already done it.

This roster will pretty much stand now to July.

RedsFan_26
04-20-2012, 09:04 PM
To late now. If they were going to trade Bailey(or Mike Leake for that matter) for a extra bat, they should have already done it.

This roster will pretty much stand now to July.

im not saying they should, i am trying to correct brm's theory of using chapman to his fullest

R_Webb18
04-20-2012, 09:46 PM
Really? Lets see he starts in AAA in 2010 but then is put in the pen, then spends all last season in the pen only pitching like something around 60 innings, then the reds say he is going to the starter role and even have him pitch in ST as a starter then wham back to the pen to start the season and has only pitched in 5 games...yea what a plan...please neither Walt nor Dusty have a clue on what to do with this kid at All.:thumbdown:

You want to see a plan for a young player with a dynamic arm..See TB and how they handled David Price...that is a plan of action and execution....something the Reds have no clue how to do.

plans change and you can always go back to the old 1.

R_Webb18
04-20-2012, 09:48 PM
The rest of MLB is basically laughing at the Reds for not starting Chapman.....

maybe or when his pitch count is 90 by 5th inning they can attack the bullpen.

The DARK
04-24-2012, 11:46 AM
http://communitypress.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20120423/SPT04/304230119/How-did-Chapman-get-much-better-?odyssey=nav%7Chead

I found this article pretty interesting. The offseason work on the slider was good to hear, given how filthy it can be when he uses it, but it was hearing about the two-seamer and throwing at 90% that got me really interested. His stride is already so long that he adds virtual velocity to the pitch as well, and throwing a 99 MPH fastball that feels like a 102 MPH fastball with movement and location is pretty unbeatable. It's hard to question the results, and it looks like the kind of thing that can keep him solid for a long time. It's easy to question the handling of his role, but it's hard to say that they've handled his pitching ability poorly.

From Price's quotes at the end, it looks like the Reds are biding their time until an opportunity to open up a starting slot comes their way. I'd expect Jocketty to clear one of our starters (most likely Bailey) for a big lefty reliever/LH bat at some point, clearing the path for him.

jwmann2
04-25-2012, 11:48 PM
Has anyone seen his numbers out of the bullpen? Why mess with that? We're 9-9 now and no one can hit the guy. We've got solid starters and thus far this season, the Bats haven't showed up in a number of the games.

R_Webb18
04-26-2012, 01:12 AM
Has anyone seen his numbers out of the bullpen? Why mess with that? We're 9-9 now and no one can hit the guy. We've got solid starters and thus far this season, the Bats haven't showed up in a number of the games.

you do realize if for a chance we get to the playoffs who would you rather start leake or chapman?

Captain13
04-26-2012, 09:51 AM
you do realize if for a chance we get to the playoffs who would you rather start leake or chapman?

Although we would all love to see Chapman start, you must admit Cueto, Latos, Arroyo looks like a pretty good playoff rotation right now.