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View Full Version : Hoover recalled; Bray to DL



HotCorner
04-24-2012, 09:45 AM
Johnson Doephis ‏ @RedTardation

JJ Hoover is being called up. #reds

Retweeted by Lance McAlister


No corresponding move noted.

Kc61
04-24-2012, 09:46 AM
Bray?

jhu1321
04-24-2012, 10:15 AM
Was just discussing yesterday that I thought Hoover or Judy would be called up soon.

I assume Bray is headed to L'ville or possibly the DL?

batsfan
04-24-2012, 11:10 AM
Tweeted by Bats beat writer @kevingeary10

Interesting tidbit from tonight: After the game, David Bell hinted that the #Reds may have JJ Hoover as the plan for closer.

Also tweeted


"He has alot of life and deception on his fastball. He has closer stuff." David Bell on JJ Hoover. #Reds

and


"He's got amazing stuff. It gets on you quick." #Bats catcher Dioner Navarro on JJ Hoover. #Reds

lollipopcurve
04-24-2012, 11:12 AM
My guess is Bray. The guy's slider is trashed, so far as I can tell. I'll also guess arm problems.

WildcatFan
04-24-2012, 11:24 AM
My guess is Bray. The guy's slider is trashed, so far as I can tell. I'll also guess arm problems.

If Bray goes down for an extended period of time, it's going to be even harder to pry Aroldis out of the bullpen. He becomes the only non-closer lefty. Scary. I wonder if Francis is available to go to the bullpen.

Reds Fanatic
04-24-2012, 11:44 AM
I had a feeling Hoover would get the call soon. He has put up some good numbers in Louisville

9IP, 17K, 6BB, 3H, ERA of 2.00 and a WHIP of 1.00

jhu1321
04-24-2012, 11:46 AM
If Bray goes down for an extended period of time, it's going to be even harder to pry Aroldis out of the bullpen. He becomes the only non-closer lefty. Scary. I wonder if Francis is available to go to the bullpen.

Yes, but I still like the idea of moving Chapman into the rotation later in the year so innings don't become an issue. I can see a July transition so his arm is fresh for a stretch run and hopefully a playoff run. :beerme:

Kc61
04-24-2012, 11:53 AM
If Bray goes down for an extended period of time, it's going to be even harder to pry Aroldis out of the bullpen. He becomes the only non-closer lefty. Scary. I wonder if Francis is available to go to the bullpen.

So you are suggesting the following bullpen.

Jeff Francis, Sam Lecure, Simon and Hoover taking the Reds to the late innings. Then there is Arredondo, Ondrusek and Marshall. And no Chapman.

Good luck with that.

Crumbley
04-24-2012, 11:55 AM
So you are suggesting the following bullpen.

Jeff Francis, Sam Lecure, Simon and Hoover taking the Reds to the late innings. Then there is Arredondo, Ondrusek and Marshall. And no Chapman.

Good luck with that.
Literally sent a shiver up my spine.

klw
04-24-2012, 11:56 AM
Will Hoover be used in a mop up role at first? He appears to be an upright guy who can't be bagged on, very charismatic- pulls you right in. Could be whirlwind day for him.

klw
04-24-2012, 11:59 AM
Fay notes the Twitter activity
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/04/24/hoover-getting-called-up/


Twitter was buzzing this morning with congratulations to J.J. Hoover on his call-up to the Reds, including one from his coach at Calhoun (Ala.) Community College. No word from the Reds on the move.

WildcatFan
04-24-2012, 12:15 PM
So you are suggesting the following bullpen.

Jeff Francis, Sam Lecure, Simon and Hoover taking the Reds to the late innings. Then there is Arredondo, Ondrusek and Marshall. And no Chapman.

Good luck with that.

Massett should be back before too long (mid-May, maybe). Replace Simon with him, and yes, that's pretty close.

RBA
04-24-2012, 12:19 PM
Will Hoover be used in a mop up role at first? He appears to be an upright guy who can't be bagged on, very charismatic- pulls you right in. Could be whirlwind day for him.


Or will he send Reds fans into a Depression?

medford
04-24-2012, 12:21 PM
Will Hoover be used in a mop up role at first? He appears to be an upright guy who can't be bagged on, very charismatic- pulls you right in. Could be whirlwind day for him.

So, in other words, he sucks?

dougdirt
04-24-2012, 12:26 PM
So, in other words, he sucks?

Quality stuff, has been dominant in Louisville so far.

JaxRed
04-24-2012, 12:26 PM
I think he could clean up some of the messes he inherits.


Did Doug miss the humor?

OesterPoster
04-24-2012, 12:26 PM
Hoover? As long as they don't place him on double secret probation...

http://www.tigersweat.com/movies/animal/anim09.jpg

dougdirt
04-24-2012, 12:28 PM
I think he could clean up some of the messes he inherits.


Did Doug miss the humor?

I must have. It has been a rough morning so far.

Kc61
04-24-2012, 12:31 PM
Massett should be back before too long (mid-May, maybe). Replace Simon with him, and yes, that's pretty close.

I read yesterday that Masset hasn't been cleared to throw a pitch yet and is not close to returning.

The Reds have won seven games so far. Chapman has relieved in six of them.

The Reds have only lost one game in which Chapman relieved, a 2-1 extra inning game in which he pitched well and didn't cause the loss.

IMO, Aroldis out of the bullpen has been the MVP of this team so far. He is necessary there. The Reds have lost Madson, Bray, Masset to injury and the move of Chappy to the pen was necessary and still is. He will have to become a starter at some later point.

medford
04-24-2012, 12:37 PM
I think he could clean up some of the messes he inherits.


Did Doug miss the humor?

obviously.

cinreds21
04-24-2012, 12:39 PM
I would guess Donnie Joseph takes Hoover's place in Louisville. That, or Kanekoa Texeira is activated off the 7-day disabled list.

Roy Tucker
04-24-2012, 12:45 PM
I don't think Massett is anywhere close to returning.

Edit: just saw kc61's post.

Sea Ray
04-24-2012, 12:46 PM
I read yesterday that Masset hasn't been cleared to throw a pitch yet and is not close to returning.

The Reds have won seven games so far. Chapman has relieved in six of them.

The Reds have only lost one game in which Chapman relieved, a 2-1 extra inning game in which he pitched well and didn't cause the loss.

IMO, Aroldis out of the bullpen has been the MVP of this team so far. He is necessary there. The Reds have lost Madson, Bray, Masset to injury and the move of Chappy to the pen was necessary and still is. He will have to become a starter at some later point.

This whole Chapman debate reminds me of Jose Rijo in 1988. He started off in the bullpen for the Reds and was very valuable. Of course the idea was to get him into the rotation. They eventually did much later in the year and we all know his career turned out all right

batsfan
04-24-2012, 12:55 PM
I would guess Donnie Joseph takes Hoover's place in Louisville. That, or Kanekoa Texeira is activated off the 7-day disabled list.

I don't think Texeira is ready quite yet. The bats could go a couple of days down a pitcher, but I am ready for DoJo!

klw
04-24-2012, 12:57 PM
They could also use him to close the flood gates and dam the holes in the pen.

Kc61
04-24-2012, 01:01 PM
This whole Chapman debate reminds me of Jose Rijo in 1988. He started off in the bullpen for the Reds and was very valuable. Of course the idea was to get him into the rotation. They eventually did much later in the year and we all know his career turned out all right

Remember it well. Jose was acquired from the Reds in a deal for Dave Parker. Looked great in the pen after 30 relief outings in 1988. Became a starter and never missed a beat. BTW, I don't remember a debate then. Jose was always slated to start, his bullpen stint was prep.

And, of course, the Reds didn't have the bullpen problems that year as they do now. They had John Franco (1.57 in 70 games), Frank Williams (2.59 in 60 games), Rob Murphy (3.08 in 76 games), eventually Rob Dibble (1.82 in 37 games), and some journeymen. Tim Birtsas was acquired with Jose and was 4.20 but a decent innings eater out of the pen.

The Reds also had a problem in the rotation. Danny Jackson and Tom Browning were excellent, but there was very little beyond that. Soto was on the decline, was 4.66 that year, for example. Danny Jackson, by the way, threw 15 complete games in 1988. Seems amazing. Browning had 5 CGs.

So the Reds needed starters more than relievers in 1988. Jose made the move.

Nobody objects to Chapman becoming a starter. But not when he is indispensable in the bullpen. Which is now. Depends on the situation in a particular season.

WVRedsFan
04-24-2012, 01:12 PM
Massett should be back before too long (mid-May, maybe). Replace Simon with him, and yes, that's pretty close.I don't expect Massett to be back anytime soon. In fact, this history worries me.

Reds Fanatic
04-24-2012, 01:22 PM
I don't expect Massett to be back anytime soon. In fact, this history worries me.

Yes the last update from John Fay on Masset was the last time he attempted to throw about a week and half ago he was still having some discomfort. Because of that they won't let him start to throw on a more regular basis. So it looks like a long time until we see Masset.

Plus Plus
04-24-2012, 01:34 PM
#Reds disable LHP Bill Bray (left groin), recall RHP J.J. Hoover (#60). When he pitches Hoover will make his Major League debut.


https://twitter.com/#!/Reds/status/194826003514793986

lollipopcurve
04-24-2012, 01:41 PM
Well, the effort to plow Bray through his injury without disabling him failed. We'll see how the effort to do the same with Phillips works out. (Note: Berkman, now on DL, tried unsuccessfully to play through a calf injury after a few days of rest.)

Plus Plus
04-24-2012, 01:47 PM
Does anyone have a good scouting report on what JJ Hoover's repertoire is like?

Tom Servo
04-24-2012, 01:53 PM
Alright President Hoover, let's see what he can do.

LincolnparkRed
04-24-2012, 02:16 PM
Tim Hummels number hasn't been retired yet, inconceivable.

oneupper
04-24-2012, 02:40 PM
#Reds disable LHP Bill Bray (left groin)

That sounds awfully cruel.

brad1176
04-24-2012, 02:50 PM
Does anyone have a good scouting report on what JJ Hoover's repertoire is like?

He can touch 98 with his fastball, is still working on a slider and curve. The video I've seen of him shows he has average movement on his stuff.

REDREAD
04-24-2012, 03:12 PM
I am really pleased Walt was proactive in getting Hoover.
Obviously Walt knew at the time (and we didn't) that both Bray and Masset were iffy.

This also explains why Simon was given a slot on the 25 man roster over Hoover out of spring training.. They knew Bray was iffy.

Hopefully Hoover does well. Honestly, if he gives us solid middle relief and can minimize walks, I think he will be an asset.

Sea Ray
04-24-2012, 03:26 PM
Remember it well. Jose was acquired from the Reds in a deal for Dave Parker. Looked great in the pen after 30 relief outings in 1988. Became a starter and never missed a beat. BTW, I don't remember a debate then. Jose was always slated to start, his bullpen stint was prep.

And, of course, the Reds didn't have the bullpen problems that year as they do now. They had John Franco (1.57 in 70 games), Frank Williams (2.59 in 60 games), Rob Murphy (3.08 in 76 games), eventually Rob Dibble (1.82 in 37 games), and some journeymen. Tim Birtsas was acquired with Jose and was 4.20 but a decent innings eater out of the pen.

The Reds also had a problem in the rotation. Danny Jackson and Tom Browning were excellent, but there was very little beyond that. Soto was on the decline, was 4.66 that year, for example. Danny Jackson, by the way, threw 15 complete games in 1988. Seems amazing. Browning had 5 CGs.

So the Reds needed starters more than relievers in 1988. Jose made the move.

Nobody objects to Chapman becoming a starter. But not when he is indispensable in the bullpen. Which is now. Depends on the situation in a particular season.

Of course there wasn't Redszone back then, there was talk radio and Bob Trumpy was the guy. If you study the boxes from that year, he was vitally important pitching in a role similar to Chapman's

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=rijojo01&t=p&year=1988

You'll see that through the first week of June he was 6-1 as a reliever. The debate at the time was "who will take over his role in the pen that's led to 6 wins?"

At the rate Aroldis is going, he could very well be 6-1 by June 4th. Even their ages are eerily similar

Kc61
04-24-2012, 03:50 PM
Of course there wasn't Redszone back then, there was talk radio and Bob Trumpy was the guy. If you study the boxes from that year, he was vitally important pitching in a role similar to Chapman's

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=rijojo01&t=p&year=1988

You'll see that through the first week of June he was 6-1 as a reliever. The debate at the time was "who will take over his role in the pen that's led to 6 wins?"

At the rate Aroldis is going, he could very well be 6-1 by June 4th. Even their ages are eerily similar

Another difference, of course, was that Rijo started 40 games with the A's in the two years before he was traded to the Reds. He was always going to be a starter.

But I'm not debating that Chapman should start. He should. Just not now, when the Reds have five pretty good starters and a pen which IMO will be bad without him.

_Sir_Charles_
04-24-2012, 04:00 PM
I must have. It has been a rough morning so far.

Sorry to hear that.

Hoover..."Depression"...Hoover...."sucks" You know, president and vacuum. They also went for the Animal House reference and the Dam.

puca
04-24-2012, 04:48 PM
Another difference, of course, was that Rijo started 40 games with the A's in the two years before he was traded to the Reds. He was always going to be a starter.

But I'm not debating that Chapman should start. He should. Just not now, when the Reds have five pretty good starters and a pen which IMO will be bad without him.

It will soon be 2 years since Chapman regularly started.

If he is to be transitioned to a starter while he is still property of the Reds, this is the year it has to start. Sadly, as long as he is pitching well in the bullpen there will never be a good time to move him.

He may help keep the Reds in contention this year, but it may cost them a #1 starter next year.

RedsManRick
04-24-2012, 04:54 PM
I hope Hoover does well. If not, we're going to be inundated with "Hoover sucks" posts...

Kc61
04-24-2012, 05:16 PM
It will soon be 2 years since Chapman regularly started.

If he is to be transitioned to a starter while he is still property of the Reds, this is the year it has to start. Sadly, as long as he is pitching well in the bullpen there will never be a good time to move him.

He may help keep the Reds in contention this year, but it may cost them a #1 starter next year.

I agree with the first sentence of your post. I disagree with just about everything else.

There is no deadline for Chapman to be a starter. There will be a good time to move him, when the bullpen is healthier and stronger. If Chapman keeps the Reds in contention this year, that is an important and good thing. If Chapman is destined to be a TOR starter, he can still achieve that next season.

I(heart)Freel
04-24-2012, 05:20 PM
Per those earlier comments from the minors, one wonders if *eventually* Hoover doesn't assume the closer role to put Marshall back in the role for which he excelled the past few years: late inning work against the meat of the order, especially power lefties.

One wonders if Marshall wouldn't be more valuable to this club there, and set up Chapman to return to the rotation (a la the spring training plan) when Bray gets healthy.

Scrap Irony
04-24-2012, 05:25 PM
Fearless prediction: Hoover is so good that he is in the mix, by the end of the year, for ROY.

Fearless prediction number two: Hoover almost immediately becomes a set-up guy, and, because of Baker's penchant for easing youngsters into "difficult" roles, will flourish, in a sabremetric-savvy way, in tougher spots early in games.

In other words, as others move into later innings (Ondrusek is close, at this point), Hoover's use as a middle reliever will be of more value than Bray's ever would have been as a LOOGY. He'll win the Reds some games and make the pen much stronger as a result.

Scrap Irony
04-24-2012, 05:27 PM
Per those earlier comments from the minors, one wonders if *eventually* Hoover doesn't assume the closer role to put Marshall back in the role for which he excelled the past few years: late inning work against the meat of the order, especially power lefties.

One wonders if Marshall wouldn't be more valuable to this club there, and set up Chapman to return to the rotation (a la the spring training plan) when Bray gets healthy.

Maybe.

A mix of Marhsall and Chapman from the LH side and Ondrusek (it'll happen) and Arredondo from the RH side on the way to Hoover might be the best this pen could hope for.

That'd make Simon and LeCure long/ middle relievers, the spot best set for each, IMO, in that pen.

Superdude
04-24-2012, 05:30 PM
I agree with the first sentence of your post. I disagree with just about everything else.

There is no deadline for Chapman to be a starter. There will be a good time to move him, when the bullpen is healthier and stronger. If Chapman keeps the Reds in contention this year, that is an important and good thing. If Chapman is destined to be a TOR starter, he can still achieve that next season.

At some point we're gonna have to bite the bullet if Chapman is gonna start. There's never gonna be a perfect time to do it because there's never gonna be a perfect replacement for the best reliever on the squad.

Sea Ray
04-24-2012, 05:34 PM
Fearless prediction: Hoover is so good that he is in the mix, by the end of the year, for ROY.

Fearless prediction number two: Hoover almost immediately becomes a set-up guy, and, because of Baker's penchant for easing youngsters into "difficult" roles, will flourish, in a sabremetric-savvy way, in tougher spots early in games.

In other words, as others move into later innings (Ondrusek is close, at this point), Hoover's use as a middle reliever will be of more value than Bray's ever would have been as a LOOGY. He'll win the Reds some games and make the pen much stronger as a result.

I hope your crystal ball is on the money!

Matt700wlw
04-24-2012, 07:57 PM
Hoover is a sweeping change.




Thank you.

puca
04-24-2012, 08:17 PM
I agree with the first sentence of your post. I disagree with just about everything else.

There is no deadline for Chapman to be a starter. There will be a good time to move him, when the bullpen is healthier and stronger. If Chapman keeps the Reds in contention this year, that is an important and good thing. If Chapman is destined to be a TOR starter, he can still achieve that next season.

The bullpen is not going to be full strength all year. Madson is out, it is unclear when/whether Masset will come back and Bray has always been brittle.

If Chapman stays in the pen all this year then he undoubtedly be on a strict innings count next year. The delimma is a familiar one which was used to rationalize Chapman starting this year in the bullpen. The Reds either restrict his innings early (start him in the bullpen next year) or shut him down in August. And come next June he is close to 3 years removed from being a starter.

He has to transition to starter at some point this year.

Blitz Dorsey
04-24-2012, 08:54 PM
BTW, has anyone else noticed that the word "recalled" is often a misnomer? If a player has never been in the Majors before, the term should be "called-up" not "recalled."

Sorry for the out-of-left-field comment. Ha. But that has always stuck out to me for some reason. If you haven't been there yet, you're not being "recalled."

And the OP didn't get this wrong. That's how MLB officially says it. Even if a player has never been to the Majors, they will say he's being "recalled."

It's never too late to fix this annoying mistake.

mth123
04-24-2012, 09:28 PM
BTW, has anyone else noticed that the word "recalled" is often a misnomer? If a player has never been in the Majors before, the term should be "called-up" not "recalled."

Sorry for the out-of-left-field comment. Ha. But that has always stuck out to me for some reason. If you haven't been there yet, you're not being "recalled."

And the OP didn't get this wrong. That's how MLB officially says it. Even if a player has never been to the Majors, they will say he's being "recalled."

It's never too late to fix this annoying mistake.

Once he's on the 40 man roster he needs to be optioned to play in the minor leagues. Once he's been optioned he needs to be recalled from that option to play in the majors.

No misnomer.

757690
04-24-2012, 11:36 PM
Scott Boras claims that lefty reliever Mike Gonzalez will sign with a MLB team in the next ten days. Reds could use another lefty with Bray being out.

757690
04-24-2012, 11:42 PM
Btw, I once dated a woman whose nickname was "Hoover". You can guess how she got that nickname...

She got it because she was incredible with a vacuum. My carpets were never cleaner. ;-)

powersackers
04-25-2012, 12:27 AM
Another difference, of course, was that Rijo started 40 games with the A's in the two years before he was traded to the Reds. He was always going to be a starter.

But I'm not debating that Chapman should start. He should. Just not now, when the Reds have five pretty good starters and a pen which IMO will be bad without him.

Assuming he is needed now (debateable).... he is allowed to throw 2 innings now if needed. So add another 30-40 pitches to that and he's through 5 innings. Hand it off to LeCure and Ondrusek and the back end and we have a potential win. Do that starting now for 5-10 starts and by the end of the year he'll be throwing 100 plus pitches and be a valuable SP with no issues.

*BaseClogger*
04-25-2012, 12:56 AM
Btw, I once dated a woman whose nickname was "Hoover". You can guess how she got that nickname...

She got it because she was incredible with a vacuum. My carpets were never cleaner. ;-)

I'm gonna guess she was good at sucking up things other than dirt?

GAC
04-25-2012, 05:46 AM
Bray to the DL - imagine that. :D

Degenerate39
04-25-2012, 09:19 AM
I wonder why Hoover didn't pitch last night?

dougdirt
04-25-2012, 09:23 AM
I wonder why Hoover didn't pitch last night?

Lecure needed to pitch. He hadn't gone since the 18th. Arredondo had pitched once since the 15th.

brad1176
04-25-2012, 09:24 AM
I wonder why Hoover didn't pitch last night?

I wondered the same, maybe Dusty didn't want to 'throw him to wolves' considering who was due up for the Giants.

klw
04-25-2012, 12:07 PM
I wondered the same, maybe Dusty didn't want to 'throw him to wolves' considering who was due up for the Giants.

Esp if it was planned that Posey would be thrown at. Not saying that was planned but if it was you might not want a rookie doing it in his first inning.

M2
04-25-2012, 12:35 PM
A) Always exciting when a kid who is smoking hitters in AAA gets called up. I'm with Scrap when it comes to thinking Hoover is going to be quality pitcher.

B) It's entirely possible the Reds are limiting Chapman's innings right now with an eye toward making a switch to the rotation post-Memorial Day or post-All-Star. And if he's pitching lights out in the rotation then I doubt anyone will mourn his loss in the pen. The Reds have plenty of bullpen options. It's just a matter of who steps up.

C) Forget who said it earlier, but I'll echo the hope that Donnie Joseph to Louisville is the next shoe to drop. He's a guy who could pitch himself into the majors this season.

WildcatFan
04-25-2012, 12:58 PM
A) Always exciting when a kid who is smoking hitters in AAA gets called up. I'm with Scrap when it comes to thinking Hoover is going to be quality pitcher.

B) It's entirely possible the Reds are limiting Chapman's innings right now with an eye toward making a switch to the rotation post-Memorial Day or post-All-Star. And if he's pitching lights out in the rotation then I doubt anyone will mourn his loss in the pen. The Reds have plenty of bullpen options. It's just a matter of who steps up.

C) Forget who said it earlier, but I'll echo the hope that Donnie Joseph to Louisville is the next shoe to drop. He's a guy who could pitch himself into the majors this season.

And as we all know, A + B + C = WS

M2
04-25-2012, 01:37 PM
And as we all know, A + B + C = WS

Or '80s synth pop.

RedlegJake
04-25-2012, 03:52 PM
I'm very excited to see Hoover pitch. Kid looks ready for the bigs and could be a big help. The only red flag I see is that he misses the strike zone as much as he misses bats and he is very good at missing bats. Best case scenario is a "nasty boy" piece. Worst case is Alfredo Simon II.