Nationals recall Bryce Harper

[mattfeet]

Seems too soon in my opinion, but it'll be fun to watch.

Thoughts?

-Matt

[klw]

It does seem a little soon as he is not tearing up AAA though he has hit better the last couple of weeks. Best of luck to the kid.

[oneupper]

He'll be a yankee quicker this way.

[dougdirt]

It is soon, but they need a bat and he has the biggest spark plug potential from their system.

[Reds Fanatic]

MLB Network is carrying his first game Saturday night at 9

[dougdirt]

MLB Network is carrying his first game Saturday night at 9

I will be tuning in.

[BCubb2003]

In Syracuse, he has looked like he was not ready but making progress. He's 6 for his last 18, though.

[fearofpopvol1]

Keith Law thinks it's a risky move.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/law_keith/id/7864188/washington-nationals-choice-call-bryce-harper-risky-move-mlb

I think it's too early as well.

[Will M]

Mike Trout has also been called up from AAA

[dougdirt]

Mike Trout has also been called up from AAA

Hitting .403/.467/.623 (that is AVG/OBP/SLG just in case it confused someone since it starts with a .403) in AAA with 11BB and 16K. 4 doubles, 5 triples and a home run so far.

[HotCorner]

Good shot he's still with the Nats when they come to Cincinnati in two weeks.

[REDblooded]

Good shot he's still with the Nats when they come to Cincinnati in two weeks.


My first thought... Makes that 5/12 Votto bobblehead night even more enticing...

[Ghosts of 1990]

He'll be fine. I bet he performs above the short 20-game sample size we saw in AAA Syracuse.

They would be well served to leave him up for good. The kid can play. Sending him back down is delaying the inevitable. I think he's ready.

[Vottomatic]

This kid is wayyyyy too arrogant for me. I can't stand him.

I don't usually wish for people to fail, but a good dose of humble pie for him would make me happy.

[powersackers]

The previous 19 year olds to debut and get some regular playing time (100 or more PAs) were:

Justin Upton 2007
BJ Upton 2004
Adrian Beltre 1998
Andruw Jones 1996
Alex Rodriquez (debuted in 1994 at 18, had 100 PAs in 1995 at 19)
Ken Griffey Jr. 1989 Full Season
Gary Sheffield 1988 (89 PAs)

I may have missed someone, but those are some BIG names and pretty BIG careers resulted. Only Sheffield and Griffey play at or near replacement level though. Lots of bad seasons in those debut years.

[cumberlandreds]

Ryan Zimmermanwent on the DL for the Nats. With him and Morse out they had to do something. They don't have much pop in their lineup as it is. I'll be tuning in tonight also to see what this kid has got.

[RedFanAlways1966]

He'll be fine. I bet he performs above the short 20-game sample size we saw in AAA Syracuse.

They would be well served to leave him up for good. The kid can play. Sending him back down is delaying the inevitable. I think he's ready.

Like he might be the "anti Branden Larson"? ;)

I need to ask... he is ready b/c he has not performed that great at AAA? I am not sure I am following that logic. He may perform well in the bigs, but if you are a bit overwhelmed at this time there does not usually equate to success at the MLB level. Nor does it mean that success at AAA means you will succeed at the highest level (Larson).

[dougdirt]

Like he might be the "anti Branden Larson"? ;)

I need to ask... he is ready b/c he has not performed that great at AAA? I am not sure I am following that logic. He may perform well in the bigs, but if you are a bit overwhelmed at this time there does not usually equate to success at the MLB level. Nor does it mean that success at AAA means you will succeed at the highest level (Larson).

Unlike a guy like Larson (who struck out a lot and didn't walk much), Harper isn't getting the hits in AAA, but he has 9 walks and 14 strikeouts in 82 PA's. Those are pretty good ratios for anyone, much less a teenager in AAA. He gets the strikezone fairly well. I would be surprised if we saw him come up and struggle because he can't put the bat on the ball. He could have some spots exploited where he makes weak contact though.

[BCubb2003]

He does hit the ball hard. I saw him make an awful, embarrassing play in center, but that happens at 19.

[Tom Servo]

He also has one of the lamest tattoos in baseball

http://static.scribol.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/triad/traffix/harpertattoo1.jpg

[Quatitos]

He also has one of the lamest tattoos in baseball

http://static.scribol.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/triad/traffix/harpertattoo1.jpg

At least it isn't on his neck ;)

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk 2

[gilpdawg]

I agree with Law. Too early.

[powersackers]

He looks excellent tonight. Double off the base of the CF wall and gunned the tying run out at the plate but Ramos dropped the ball.

[powersackers]

And he just drove in the go ahead run in the ninth with a line drive sac fly.

[kaldaniels]

Did he knock his helmet off on purpose running to second on his double?

[dougdirt]

Were fans mooning the pitcher/camera when Harper hit his double? The answer is yes.

[kaldaniels]

Were fans mooning the pitcher/camera when Harper hit his double? The answer is yes.

You are correct sir. Of course deadspin is all over it.

[powersackers]

It had started to fall off on its own. Easy to knock it off than pull it back on. Not sure what's relevant about it either way.

[powersackers]

Kemp walks it off . Wow that was an awesome game.

[powersackers]

You are correct sir. Of course deadspin is all over it.

dead spin user comment.... "from what I saw it appears the guy mooning needs to Shavez Ravine" lol

[crazybob60]

That was a straight bullet from LF that Bryce threw. If only Ramos could have held on.

[Ghosts of 1990]

I like this kid a lot. Hope he's up for good. Very exciting to watch. He can do it all.

[kaldaniels]

dead spin user comment.... "from what I saw it appears the guy mooning needs to Shavez Ravine" lol

I love deadspins humor, but I was struck by a comment in another Harper thread.

(paraphrasing)

"Vin Scully called Bryce Harper's first game tonight. He also called Mickey Mantle's first game."

Let that one sink in.

[Tom Servo]

Did he knock his helmet off on purpose running to second on his double?
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m384kxrmfG1r9kk3io3_250.gif

have to show off that rockin rattail/mullet, bro

[Ghosts of 1990]

He looked like a young Charlie Hustle with those socks.... and the way he ran the bases.

[Crumbley]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m384kxrmfG1r9kk3io3_250.gif

have to show off that rockin rattail/mullet, bro
#swag

[Redsfan320]

He's only three years older than me. Wonder who the first MLB'er younger than me will be?

And that double was smashed to CF. It was a great throw too. What surprised me most was his speed though. He's very fast for a power hitter/ former catcher.

320

[Always Red]

He also has one of the lamest tattoos in baseball

http://static.scribol.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/triad/traffix/harpertattoo1.jpg

That tells me a lot about this kid.

Does he tattoo his own name on his torso in case he forgets who he is? :eek:

[Team Clark]

The only game this season I watched every pitch. Exciting on many levels. Harper was impressive. I was really impressed with the way Strasburg neutralized Kemp, only to have Kemp put his Superman outfit back on in time to win the game.

Strasburg is "wildly effective" with that stunning fastball. I love the fact that he didn't use his curve until he had too and then didn't throw a change up until the 6th inning. His mechanics will not allow him to be consistent as he needs to be, but it almost becomes a non issue when he is showing this much dominance. Very reminiscent of a young Ryan.

[Blitz Dorsey]

I have to laugh at the people who were like "How can the Dodger fans boo him?" Uh, anyone who has followed Harper knows he's had a tendency to act like a jerk at times. Think that might have had something to do with it? Can't expect to be a jerk and be loved by everyone. He played his one season of "college ball" somewhat near LA, so I'm sure the fans there are well aware of him. And, yes, some of the fans were just being jerks themselves, but I thought the whole thing was funny. Here is this cocky kid coming up for his first AB in the Majors and the Dodger fans were having none of it. This is why it's good for players to make their debuts at home. Ha. Then he would have received a standing O. I'm sure he still will when he comes up for his first AB in DC.

[kaldaniels]

Well with that double last night by Harper, Cozart is no longer in the lead for ROY unfortunately.

[dougdirt]

I have to laugh at the people who were like "How can the Dodger fans boo him?" Uh, anyone who has followed Harper knows he's had a tendency to act like a jerk at times. Think that might have had something to do with it? Can't expect to be a jerk and be loved by everyone. He played his one season of "college ball" somewhat near LA, so I'm sure the fans there are well aware of him. And, yes, some of the fans were just being jerks themselves, but I thought the whole thing was funny. Here is this cocky kid coming up for his first AB in the Majors and the Dodger fans were having none of it. This is why it's good for players to make their debuts at home. Ha. Then he would have received a standing O. I'm sure he still will when he comes up for his first AB in DC.

We all have a tendency to act like a jerk, sometimes. The difference is, we don't all have eyes on us every second of the day.

[kaldaniels]

I think he is cocky and am not a fan...

But if he hustles the rest of his career like he did last night I'm sure I will come around.

[757690]

We all have a tendency to act like a jerk, sometimes. The difference is, we don't all have eyes on us every second of the day.

I have never done most of the things the Harper has done that has given him a bad reputation, nor would I ever do them. Neither have most major leaguers.

[Blitz Dorsey]

We all have a tendency to act like a jerk, sometimes. The difference is, we don't all have eyes on us every second of the day.

True ... and I'm sure Harper doesn't have a problem with the reaction from Dodger fans. He seems like the kind of kid that feeds off the hate. And if it does bother him, too bad. Want to be loved by everyone? Don't act like a jerk. Course, he might not care in the least about being loved by everyone.

[757690]

Just one example of Harper's behavior.

In the minors, before every AB, he would lay the bat directly on home plate, grab a handful of dirt, run it between his hands, then pick up the bat and start the AB.

[dougdirt]

I have never done most of the things the Harper has done that has given him a bad reputation, nor would I ever do them. Neither have most major leaguers.

Like what?

[dougdirt]

Just one example of Harper's behavior.

In the minors, before every AB, he would lay the bat directly on home plate, grab a handful of dirt, run it between his hands, then pick up the bat and start the AB.

Just went back and watched his game on April 25th. He didn't do that.

[dougdirt]

True ... and I'm sure Harper doesn't have a problem with the reaction from Dodger fans. He seems like the kind of kid that feeds off the hate. And if it does bother him, too bad. Want to be loved by everyone? Don't act like a jerk. Course, he might not care in the least about being loved by everyone.

Sure, I am still trying to figure out when he has been a jerk.

[kaldaniels]

Sure, I am still trying to figure out when he has been a jerk.

You can research like none other on here Doug.

Yet you feign ignorance of Bryce Harper's jerk-store-ness?

If I offended you let me blow a kiss your way. :laugh:

[Blitz Dorsey]

You can research like none other on here Doug.

Yet you feign ignorance of Bryce Harper's jerk-store-ness?

If I offended you let me blow a kiss your way. :laugh:

Nice Seinfeld reference. Well played.

"Hey Bryce, the jerk-store called ... and they're running out of you!"

:beerme:

[757690]

Just went back and watched his game on April 25th. He didn't do that.

He might have stopped this year, but he did do it regularly before.

[757690]

Harper also once drew a line in the batters box to show the umpire where he thought a called strike was.

[Tom Servo]

Harper does seem to me to be a jerk. A very talented one, but a jerk nonetheless. Hopefully he learns the art of humbleness as time goes on.

[wolfboy]

Like what?

http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2011-04-28/bryce-harper-sparks-brawl-in-class-a-game


Last season's No. 1 overall pick by the Washington Nationals was at the center of a benches-clearing incident in a Class A game Wednesday. Harper and the opposing pitcher exchanged words after Harper took a called third strike. No punches were thrown and nobody was ejected.

Harper hit a home run prior to the strikeout, giving him four homers and 15 RBIs this season.

But it never was production that worried people about Harper. It was his attitude. He showed tendencies to yell at opposing players, teammates and umpires, and he was ejected from a game in the Junior College World Series in June after drawing a line in the dirt in the batter's box to show an umpire that a called strike was outside. It was his second ejection of the season and earned him a two-game suspension.

There was this from Baseball Prospectus before Harper was drafted: "It's impossible to find any talent evaluator who isn't blown away by Harper's ability on the field, but it's equally difficult to find one who doesn't genuinely dislike the kid.

"One scout called him among the worst amateur players he's ever seen from a makeup standpoint, with top-of-the-scale arrogance, a disturbingly large sense of entitlement, and on-field behavior that includes taunting opponents."

"He's just a bad, bad guy," one front-office official told Baseball Prospectus. "He's basically the anti-Joe Mauer."

Not exactly a secret that the guy is a jerk.

[dougdirt]

You can research like none other on here Doug.

Yet you feign ignorance of Bryce Harper's jerk-store-ness?

If I offended you let me blow a kiss your way. :laugh:

Oh, I know some of the things. I also know that they were done by a kid who was the age of a high schooler. Darn near everyone has a story or five about something they did in high school that never got outside of a small group of people because they did it in high school and no one ever paid attention to it outside of that small town/school/rival school.

Again, we would all look like jerks if we had cameras on us at age 17-19. All of us. But most of us aren't, we were just teenagers who had swings of emotion and immaturity, because we were teenagers.

[dougdirt]

http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2011-04-28/bryce-harper-sparks-brawl-in-class-a-game



Not exactly a secret that the guy is a jerk.

So if he was a football player he would be called firey? Got it.

Arguing with an umpire? Heavens forbid you tell an umpire that they were wrong. No player has EVER done that before.

[mattfeet]

So if he was a football player he would be called firey? Got it.

There's a difference, and you know it. Being "fiery" is someone who gets amped up before/during a game (regardless of sport) and is very emotional. Bryce Harper IS fiery, but he's also a jerk.

Jonny Gomes = Fiery and intense, but FAR from a jerk
Bryce Harper = Fiery and intense, but a BIG jerk

[Tom Servo]

Again, we would all look like jerks if we had cameras on us at age 17-19. All of us. But most of us aren't, we were just teenagers who had swings of emotion and immaturity, because we were teenagers.
I don't know, I think I was a pretty decent guy a few years ago. Then again, I was also godawful at baseball and I knew it.

[dougdirt]

I don't know, I think I was a pretty decent guy a few years ago. Then again, I was also godawful at baseball and I knew it.
That is kind of my point though, despite being a pretty decent guy, don't you think you had a few incidents throughout the time you were 15-18 that made you seem like a jerk?

[757690]

Oh, I know some of the things. I also know that they were done by a kid who was the age of a high schooler. Darn near everyone has a story or five about something they did in high school that never got outside of a small group of people because they did it in high school and no one ever paid attention to it outside of that small town/school/rival school.

Again, we would all look like jerks if we had cameras on us at age 17-19. All of us. But most of us aren't, we were just teenagers who had swings of emotion and immaturity, because we were teenagers.

Most of the minor leaguers, and college athletes are teenagers. Cameras and the press follow them. Where are all the stories of them being jerks? Now many of them have their own name tattooed on their torso?

[mth123]

He's 19. Aren't all 19 year olds a bit immature? If he's still acting out at 25, then I'll consider tagging him with the jerk moniker.

[757690]

Even A-Rod, who was a first round overall pick and came up as a teenager, didn't have these type of stories following him when he came up, and A-Rod is still a jerk.

[dougdirt]

Even A-Rod, who was a first round overall pick and came up as a teenager, didn't have these type of stories following him when he came up, and A-Rod is still a jerk.

The internet didn't exist in 1991-1993 when Arod was 16-18. Ok, it existed, but not like this. The press didn't cover him like this either. Not even close.

[dougdirt]

Most of the minor leaguers, and college athletes are teenagers. Cameras and the press follow them. Where are all the stories of them being jerks? Now many of them have their own name tattooed on their torso?

Most minor leaguers are 19+. Bryce Harper is just now 19. No one was covered in high school like Harper was. No one ever, at least in this sport. No one was covered in college like Harper was, at least in this sport.

[Team Clark]

I've seen quite a bit in my career but the exploits of Harper are minor compared to the exploits of Aaron Boone, Adam Dunn, Austin Kearns and a few select others on a near nightly basis at Have a Nice Day cafe and JAPS in downtown Cincinnati several years ago. Were cameras following them? No. Would you classify their behavior as young guys just having fun? Probably. Even though they crossed the line on more than one occasion I would just say they are privileged athletes. Harper is cocky. Good for him. I don't have issue with that. Has he done things he regrets. No doubt, just as all of us have.

[757690]

The internet didn't exist in 1991-1993 when Arod was 16-18. Ok, it existed, but not like this. The press didn't cover him like this either. Not even close.

If only there existed some way to convey information before the Internet. ;)

[dougdirt]

If only there existed some way to convey information before the Internet. ;)
There was. But the difference is, everyone is a reporter now, instead of a privileged few.

[757690]

There was. But the difference is, everyone is a reporter now, instead of a privileged few.

If any player blew a kiss to a pitcher after he hit a homer in 1909, the press would have been all over it.

[dougdirt]

If any player blew a kiss to a pitcher after he hit a homer in 1909, the press would have been all over it.

Not in the minor leagues they wouldn't. Because no one covered it. Just like they didn't in 1993, or even 2003 for the most part.

[757690]

Not in the minor leagues they wouldn't. Because no one covered it. Just like they didn't in 1993, or even 2003 for the most part.

I was reading Baseball America in High School, in the early 80's. They would have reported it, big time.

And even if you go with your Internet theory, it's been around for around 15 years now. That's thousands of players that have been covered by it. How many players have been revealed as jerks during that time?

[dougdirt]

I was reading Baseball America in High School, in the early 80's. They would have reported it, big time.

And even if you go with your Internet theory, it's been around for around 15 years now. That's thousands of players that have been covered by it. How many players have been revealed as jerks during that time?

Yes, BA was around. But the amount of information wasn't. BA gets almost all of their information from other sources. They don't have their own scouts. They are reporters who work in North Carolina and get a lot of their information from other places. It isn't close to the same now as it was back then. It would have gone un-reported. Until 1983, BA was working out of Canada. I am sure they were all over the attitudes of players.

And yes, the internet has been around for about 20 years now. Again, that is great, but the amount of coverage available of things isn't close to the same now as it was then, or even in 2005. Everyone has the internet on their phone today. If they see something, they tweet it. They post it to facebook. It spreads like wildfires. That didn't happen in 2005, much less 1995. Comparing the coverage of minor league baseball now to the coverage of it at any other time in history is crazy. It isn't even close. There used to be one publication that covered it. Now there are 20 and a slew of dedicated team websites out there as well. That cover it every single day instead of a once a month publication.

Quick, name the player who threw a fastball into the stands in Dayton and hit a fan. I bet you can't without looking it up. But you can tell me the name of Bryce Harper, who has never done anything close to that.

[kaldaniels]

Yes, BA was around. But the amount of information wasn't. BA gets almost all of their information from other sources. They don't have their own scouts. They are reporters who work in North Carolina and get a lot of their information from other places. It isn't close to the same now as it was back then. It would have gone un-reported. Until 1983, BA was working out of Canada. I am sure they were all over the attitudes of players.

And yes, the internet has been around for about 20 years now. Again, that is great, but the amount of coverage available of things isn't close to the same now as it was then, or even in 2005. Everyone has the internet on their phone today. If they see something, they tweet it. They post it to facebook. It spreads like wildfires. That didn't happen in 2005, much less 1995. Comparing the coverage of minor league baseball now to the coverage of it at any other time in history is crazy. It isn't even close. There used to be one publication that covered it. Now there are 20 and a slew of dedicated team websites out there as well. That cover it every single day instead of a once a month publication.

Quick, name the player who threw a fastball into the stands in Dayton and hit a fan. I bet you can't without looking it up. But you can tell me the name of Bryce Harper, who has never done anything close to that.

That's not a jerk, that guy is a criminal.

[dougdirt]

That's not a jerk, that guy is a criminal.

Even still, no one here can name that guy. But everyone can name a kid who blew a kiss to a pitcher.

[kaldaniels]

Even still, no one here can name that guy. But everyone can name a kid who blew a kiss to a pitcher.

And I don't see the issue with that.

[757690]

Yes, BA was around. But the amount of information wasn't. BA gets almost all of their information from other sources. They don't have their own scouts. They are reporters who work in North Carolina and get a lot of their information from other places. It isn't close to the same now as it was back then. It would have gone un-reported. Until 1983, BA was working out of Canada. I am sure they were all over the attitudes of players.

And yes, the internet has been around for about 20 years now. Again, that is great, but the amount of coverage available of things isn't close to the same now as it was then, or even in 2005. Everyone has the internet on their phone today. If they see something, they tweet it. They post it to facebook. It spreads like wildfires. That didn't happen in 2005, much less 1995. Comparing the coverage of minor league baseball now to the coverage of it at any other time in history is crazy. It isn't even close. There used to be one publication that covered it. Now there are 20 and a slew of dedicated team websites out there as well. That cover it every single day instead of a once a month publication.

Quick, name the player who threw a fastball into the stands in Dayton and hit a fan. I bet you can't without looking it up. But you can tell me the name of Bryce Harper, who has never done anything close to that.

And yet, that incident got national coverage. If that player made it to the bigs, i definitely would know his name.

BA was definitely talking about the makeup of amateur and minor league players back in the 80's. I know, I read it regularly.

Yes, there is more coverage of everything these days, but you are acting like we used smoke signals before 2005. Really, since the invention of the radio, we have been informed of anything that happens that would be considered interesting or news. I imagine people said the same thing about Frank Sinatra, or James Dean, or Mickey Mantle when stories about them were reported, that it's just a result of this new media that reports everything a star does.

Anyway, before Harper was drafted, his scouting reported said he had the worst makeup of any amateur player the scouts had ever seen. You can't blame that on the internet.

[dougdirt]

Really, since the invention of the radio, we have been informed of anything that happens that would be considered interesting or news. I imagine people said the same thing about Frank Sinatra, or James Dean, or Mickey Mantle when stories about them were reported, that it's just a result of this new media that reports everything a star does.
Read things about what teammates said about Mantle and the media back then. Essentially it is that he would have never survived in todays environment because of how little the media actually covered his exploits.



Anyway, before Harper was drafted, his scouting reported said he had the worst makeup of any amateur player the scouts had ever seen. You can't blame that on the internet.

Well, that is certainly what ONE scout said. And you know what, he was wrong. Guys doing drugs have worse make up than a guy with an attitude. Guys going out and getting in fights have worse make up than a guy with an attitude. Guys going out and getting DUI's and womanizing have worse make up than a guy with an attitude.

Was Bryce Harper at age 15 an ego maniac? Maybe. Has he done some things that he wishes he hasn't? Probably. Would most of it have gone un-reported in 1995? Probably.

[757690]

Read things about what teammates said about Mantle and the media back then. Essentially it is that he would have never survived in todays environment because of how little the media actually covered his exploits.

Well, that is certainly what ONE scout said. And you know what, he was wrong. Guys doing drugs have worse make up than a guy with an attitude. Guys going out and getting in fights have worse make up than a guy with an attitude. Guys going out and getting DUI's and womanizing have worse make up than a guy with an attitude.

Was Bryce Harper at age 15 an ego maniac? Maybe. Has he done some things that he wishes he hasn't? Probably. Would most of it have gone un-reported in 1995? Probably.

You can keep saying it, but it doesn't make it true. I was 29 in 1995 and I can tell you with absolute certainty that if an amateur player acted like Harper back then, it would have been reported.

And Mantle had a reputation very similar to Harper's when he came up, of being overly cocky and arrogant. That was widely reported. The exploits you are talking about happened off the field and were of a personal nature. We aren't talking about that here with Harper, we are talking about how he has acted on the field.

[dougdirt]

You can keep saying it, but it doesn't make it true. I was 29 in 1995 and I can tell you with absolute certainty that if an amateur player acted like Harper back then, it would have been reported.

And Mantle had a reputation very similar to Harper's when he came up, of being overly cocky and arrogant. That was widely reported. The exploits you are talking about happened off the field and were of a personal nature. We aren't talking about that here with Harper, we are talking about how he has acted on the field.

The point with Mantle compared to Harper is that everyone is a reporter today, not just the actual reporters. Mantle would be all over TMZ, youtube, vimeo, twitvid, facebook for his off the field stuff. But that didn't happen back then because it didn't exist. Now we have pictures of Arod in an elevator with a woman who isn't his wife. There are more places covering everything now, so there is going to be more information out there.

Trust me, I know of things about guys, both as they came up and guys who were in the Majors, who are much more of an issue with their decisions than anything that has been reported on Bryce Harper.

I am done with this though. I don't think the guy is a jerk because of some things he did before he was legally allowed to get his drivers license in some states. You obviously disagree.

[Tom Servo]

Mickey Mantle was indeed, by most accounts, a jerk too. It's all subjective though.

[Joseph]

And really, jerk or not, his success won't be dictated by how he treats a clubhouse guy or if he blows a kiss at a pitcher.

[jojo]

And really, jerk or not, his success won't be dictated by how he treats a clubhouse guy or if he blows a kiss at a pitcher.

Well if he blows a kiss at a pitcher, he'll have to change his game by learning to quack a lot...because he'll be a duckin'....

[Ghosts of 1990]

Read things about what teammates said about Mantle and the media back then. Essentially it is that he would have never survived in todays environment because of how little the media actually covered his exploits.



Well, that is certainly what ONE scout said. And you know what, he was wrong. Guys doing drugs have worse make up than a guy with an attitude. Guys going out and getting in fights have worse make up than a guy with an attitude. Guys going out and getting DUI's and womanizing have worse make up than a guy with an attitude.

Was Bryce Harper at age 15 an ego maniac? Maybe. Has he done some things that he wishes he hasn't? Probably. Would most of it have gone un-reported in 1995? Probably.

Awesome post, especially the latter part.

Harper is so off the charts in measurables, scouts (or a scout) had to come up with something to knock in his game. We were all different at 15-19 etc. he doesn't know who he is yet. I didn't until I was 27 or so

[marcshoe]

Did he blow a kiss at a pitcher, or was he just spitting sunflower seeds? ;)

[Brutus]

Oh, I know some of the things. I also know that they were done by a kid who was the age of a high schooler. Darn near everyone has a story or five about something they did in high school that never got outside of a small group of people because they did it in high school and no one ever paid attention to it outside of that small town/school/rival school.

Again, we would all look like jerks if we had cameras on us at age 17-19. All of us. But most of us aren't, we were just teenagers who had swings of emotion and immaturity, because we were teenagers.

Doug, there's a difference between being immature and being a jerk. I don't disagree with you maturity might be part of it, but being cocky is something that generally doesn't seem to go away.

[dougdirt]

Doug, there's a difference between being immature and being a jerk. I don't disagree with you maturity might be part of it, but being cocky is something that generally doesn't seem to go away.

There is a difference in being cocky and being a jerk too.

[cumberlandreds]

Harper looks like the real deal to me. Made a great catch in CF yesterday too. The Nats have a good one and another franchise player to go along with Strasburg and Zimmerman.
I'll withhold any judgement against him for being too arrogant until I have seen him in the big leagues for a while. Whatever happened in the minors is in the past and part of the growing and learning process. Some things he did in the minors will never fly in the majors and I think he knows that now.

[Scrap Irony]

If Harper can play CF long-term (and I think he can), the call-up is fine. The Nats have a gigantic hole in CF (and LF for that matter) and Harper plugs it as well as it can be plugged for as long as he's there.

The problem is that this starts his service time, and, with the exception of ticket sales, this move hurts Washington long-term (assuming he doesn't sign there in six years). In other words, 25-year-old Bryce Harper > 19-year-old Bryce Harper.

That said, Washington is likely to be in the hunt for the playoffs all year, assuming no one else goes down. They're tied for first place right now and have the pitching (that starting staff might be the best top to bottom in the league-- and that includes the Phils) to stay long-term. They need offensive pop. Harper might just provide that.

[oneupper]

In 2003, a 20 yo Miguel Cabrera was "rushed" to the Marlins, who only went on to be World Champs that year.
He turned out Ok. (As a player, that is).

[Ghosts of 1990]

If Harper can play CF long-term (and I think he can), the call-up is fine. The Nats have a gigantic hole in CF (and LF for that matter) and Harper plugs it as well as it can be plugged for as long as he's there.

The problem is that this starts his service time, and, with the exception of ticket sales, this move hurts Washington long-term (assuming he doesn't sign there in six years). In other words, 25-year-old Bryce Harper > 19-year-old Bryce Harper.

That said, Washington is likely to be in the hunt for the playoffs all year, assuming no one else goes down. They're tied for first place right now and have the pitching (that starting staff might be the best top to bottom in the league-- and that includes the Phils) to stay long-term. They need offensive pop. Harper might just provide that.

I think that they're of the mindset, we don't care when he's a free agent, we're locking him up no matter the cost anyways. He's never leaving town. If they have that mindset they don't care when his clock starts. That's at least what I think they're thinking.

[Scrap Irony]

In 2003, a 20 yo Miguel Cabrera was "rushed" to the Marlins, who only went on to be World Champs that year.
He turned out Ok. (As a player, that is).

Miggy is who I see when I look at Harper. Only in CF with plus defensive chops. (Possibly.)

I'd have LOVED to have seen that behind the plate, but que sera.

[Scrap Irony]

I think that they're of the mindset, we don't care when he's a free agent, we're locking him up no matter the cost anyways. He's never leaving town. If they have that mindset they don't care when his clock starts. That's at least what I think they're thinking.

And, if that's the case, they made the right call.

(Personally, I feel there's no way he doesn't become a Dodger, Red Sox, or Yankee player by age 26. All three of those teams would shell out massive amounts of cash for a player of that caliber. Historically, that's how it's done.)

[LvJ]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7128/6977167718_b5001aae9e_o.gif

My new favorite non-Red. Hustle, hustle.

Also, this throw: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21004035

[757690]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7128/6977167718_b5001aae9e_o.gif

My new favorite non-Red. Hustle, hustle.

Also, this throw: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21004035

His two heroes are Charlie Hustle and Mantle. His number, 34, is a tribute to both. It ends in 4, like Rose's 14, and the numbers add up to 7, Mantle's number.

[Ghosts of 1990]

And, if that's the case, they made the right call.

(Personally, I feel there's no way he doesn't become a Dodger, Red Sox, or Yankee player by age 26. All three of those teams would shell out massive amounts of cash for a player of that caliber. Historically, that's how it's done.)

One way it could be avoided I think would be if the Nationals are willing to offer a 10 year, $225 million deal when Harper is 22 or 23, years before he hits free agency. Thats how Washington can keep him from ever hitting the FA market. Shift the risk from the player to the organization. Otherwise you're right, the huge markets will prey on him.

[757690]

I'm guessing he goes all A-Rod, focusing on getting a record breaking, precident setting contract, and doesn't care who gives it to him.

[dougdirt]

One way it could be avoided I think would be if the Nationals are willing to offer a 10 year, $225 million deal when Harper is 22 or 23, years before he hits free agency. Thats how Washington can keep him from ever hitting the FA market. Shift the risk from the player to the organization. Otherwise you're right, the huge markets will prey on him.

I think Washington is a pretty huge market isn't it? Can someone tell me if I am right or wrong here?

[fearofpopvol1]

There is a difference in being cocky and being a jerk too.

The 2 can definitely go hand in hand.

From everything I've seen, and it's somewhat limited, Harper does seem a bit arrogant and immature. I think we typically expect more out of baseball players because the culture is different. It seems like Harper could use some humbling.

Homer Bailey was once immature as well (albeit for different reasons) and he's come around rather nicely, so I think there's time for Harper to mature.

[Tom Servo]

Harper just needs to make sure no lefty specialists sit on him at home plate.

[Blitz Dorsey]

I think Washington is a pretty huge market isn't it? Can someone tell me if I am right or wrong here?

You're right. Top-10 media market. It's no New York, LA or Chicago, but it's plenty big.

From a baseball standpoint, you do have the Orioles right up the road and a lot of DC fans grew up rooting for the O's. So, that does reduce the volume of their fan base. However, yes, still a very big market.

[VottoFan54]

Jayson Stark twitter:


Attendance for Bryce Harper's home debut: 22,675. Attendance for Stephen Strasburg's home debut on 6/8/10: 40,315

There are a number of factors involved in a game's attendance other than just the players involved, but the Nats have to be pretty disappointed in the attendance for Harper's debut.

[757690]

Jayson Stark twitter:



There are a number of factors involved in a game's attendance other than just the players involved, but the Nats have to be pretty disappointed in the attendance for Harper's debut.

Dodger's sold out his debut in LA. So there definitely is some interest in this guy.

[Brutus]

I seem to recall the Nationals building up Strasburg's debut for a couple of weeks, yes? Harper got called up somewhat abruptly and the Nationals didn't have time to market his arrival.

I don't think it's possible to truly compare the two for that reason as much as any.

[cumberlandreds]

I seem to recall the Nationals building up Strasburg's debut for a couple of weeks, yes? Harper got called up somewhat abruptly and the Nationals didn't have time to market his arrival.

I don't think it's possible to truly compare the two for that reason as much as any.

Yes there was a big buildup for Strasburgs debut. Not two weeks but a few days. It surprised me the way they brought up Harper. I thought they would wait until they were home. Its a little more special if its his MLB debut as opposed to his home debut.

[dougdirt]

Cole Hamels made his MLB debut in Cincinnati. HE dominated us for 5 innings. I almost wish they would have started him at home than here..... but I did pick up about 5 extra ticket stubs from the game from other fans and sold them for $15-20 a pop on ebay that week....

[dougdirt]

3-4 tonight with 2 doubles, one that missed being a home run by maybe 2 feet.

[RBA]

Davey Johnson moving him up to 3rd in batting order tonight.

[dougdirt]

It is too late for me to edit my most recent post, but both of his doubles last night actually missed being home runs by a few feet as they hit 15 feet up the wall in right-center.

[Brutus]

It is too late for me to edit my most recent post, but both of his doubles last night actually missed being home runs by a few feet as they hit 15 feet up the wall in right-center.

Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades.

:thumbup:

[dougdirt]

Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades.

:thumbup:

And Nuclear Warfare.

[DGullett35]

The Nationals OF has to have the best arms in the game. Harper, Ankiel, and Werth..No one in their right mind will run on that trio..This Harper kid may be the real deal. He hits the ball hard and has great power to all parts of the field.

[Tom Servo]

So I would guess that when Morse comes back they'd slide Harper to CF?

[Ghosts of 1990]

So I would guess that when Morse comes back they'd slide Harper to CF?

I think this is exactly what will happen. But he doesn't slide anywhere in the batting order. I think he'll be in the 3-hole to stay.

[cumberlandreds]

So I would guess that when Morse comes back they'd slide Harper to CF?

Depending on Ankiel does he could go to 1b and they trade LaRoche. IIRC Morse isn't a very good outfielder and 1b is his better position.

[kaldaniels]

Hamels admits throwing at Harper. Uncalled for if you ask me. Sure had to make the steal of home sweet.

http://m.espn.go.com/mlb/story?storyId=7899287

[cumberlandreds]

Surprised Hamels admitted it. Even though it was obvious. He'll get a suspension now and a fine now. Although it will probably be for only one start.
I wonder if Zimmerman will admit to hitting Hamels on purpose?

[DGullett35]

That steal of home was awesome. Always cool to see hitting a guy backfire on the pitcher. I don't have a problem with what Hamels did but geez don't admit to it. Thats just opening up a can of worms.

I kind of think of it as just one of those things in the game you just don't talk about

[cincrazy]

It is too late for me to edit my most recent post, but both of his doubles last night actually missed being home runs by a few feet as they hit 15 feet up the wall in right-center.

Doug was that the game your best friend was at?

[dougdirt]

Doug was that the game your best friend was at?

No, he was there Friday or Saturday. He happens to be the luckiest person alive, so I was downright shocked that Harper didn't go deep at least twice in the game.

[LvJ]

Did you guys see the double he hit right over the short stops head?

Stupid risky or smart risky? Down by 2 with 4 outs to go.

I liked it. I feel like he took advantage of Juan Pierre's lack of hustle and weak arm.

[dougdirt]

Did you guys see the double he hit right over the short stops head?

Stupid risky or smart risky? Down by 2 with 4 outs to go.

I liked it. I feel like he took advantage of Juan Pierre's lack of hustle and weak arm.

That only happens to Juan Pierre. The broadcasters were talking about it all night. He thought about doing it earlier in the game on another hit to Pierre, but stayed at first.

[Tony Cloninger]

That steal of home was awesome. Always cool to see hitting a guy backfire on the pitcher. I don't have a problem with what Hamels did but geez don't admit to it. Thats just opening up a can of worms.

I kind of think of it as just one of those things in the game you just don't talk about

He threw at him beacuse he is a hyped rookie.....That I do not agree with. IF he had done something to show up or be a jerk....I could see it, but just beacuse he is a rookie?

[The Operator]

Yep, Cole Hamels just went down a notch in my book. I'm not a huge Bryce Harper fan (any time these rookies come up, the media love-fest just irritates me to death), but the guy is 19 and he did absolutely nothing to deserve that.

The Phillies should be careful what they wish for, the Nats staff might not have the track record that theirs does, but across the board they throw a decent bit harder. I can't imagine any Phillies hitters are too happy about this.

[Tom Servo]

I dunno, I think people are making too big a deal out of it. Just a bruise on Harper's back at the end of the day.

[The Operator]

I dunno, I think people are making too big a deal out of it. Just a bruise on Harper's back at the end of the day.It's that it was basically for no reason is why I have an issue with it.

I don't think we should be starting a trend where rookies need to expect bean-balls aplenty upon arriving in the big leagues.

[RedlegJake]

It's that it was basically for no reason is why I have an issue with it.

I don't think we should be starting a trend where rookies need to expect bean-balls aplenty upon arriving in the big leagues.

Starting a trend? Its been a trend for hyped up rookies since the big leagues began. This isn't new. I can't say I like it a lot either but it's old school, not a new thing...

[Always Red]

I really did like what Harper said... Nothing.

"Hamels pitched a great game."

The Kid just went up a notch in my book. In spite of his silly "Harper" tattoo.

[cumberlandreds]

I dunno, I think people are making too big a deal out of it. Just a bruise on Harper's back at the end of the day.

I agree with you. Totally overblown situation. I think most hyped up rookies get thrown at sooner or later. If Hamels had thrown at his head I could see the outrage, But he hit him in the wallet. The best place you could get hit. Also Harper reacted just right. Put his down went to 1st base like a pro. Later in the inning he stole home to get his "revenge" on the pitcher. Also later in the game Jordan Zimmerman hit Hamels. So they are even now and the score should be settled.

[jojo]

Acting like a punk is a wierd way to demand respect. Just sayin'....

[Orenda]

this is a 'mildly interesting distraction.'

Rizzo calls Hamels "fake" tough, :laugh: Hamels said he hit him on purpose, he didn't say he was tough, it's not like he's operating in the shadows or in the dark. Or am I missing something? Is there a hidden nefarious and insidious situation going on here by Hamels or the DC team?

O well, a 'mildly interesting distraction'.

[powersackers]

I can't wait to watch him this weekend vs our Reds. Certainly worth seeing in person if you can make it. If you don't know by now, he is getting tons of street cred for his hustle and skills. I haven't heard him described as a punk or cocky since his debut. Yet people not folllowing him and the game of baseball closely still have that perception.

A guy at work tells me he's going to the game Saturday. I told him to look out for Harper, he's the real deal. And immediately he says I hear he has a bad attitude.

[kaldaniels]

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/sports/2012/05/11/nats-harper-injures-himself-after-going-0-for-5/

And I was starting to come around on the kid...this doesn't help.

[dougdirt]

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/sports/2012/05/11/nats-harper-injures-himself-after-going-0-for-5/

And I was starting to come around on the kid...this doesn't help.

Really?

Every single guy in baseball has gone back to the dugout while in a slump and hit something with their bat. Every one of them.

[kaldaniels]

Really?

Every single guy in baseball has gone back to the dugout while in a slump and hit something with their bat. Every one of them.

Yes really. I love the every guy in baseball remark....

Not every guy in baseball ends up looking like Harper tonight. Look it's not a big thing but he really embarrassed himself. Amare-esque.

[jojo]

Really?

Every single guy in baseball has gone back to the dugout while in a slump and hit something with their bat. Every one of them.

Not John Olerud. He just tugged on his helmet a little harder and oozed additional excellence.

[sonny]

Not John Olerud. He just tugged on his helmet a little harder and oozed additional excellence.

Good one.

Moliter would tip his cap and get 'em next time.

[marcshoe]

In the end, this will only add to the legend. I get the idea that this kid's going to produce a lot of headlines over the next few years.

I wonder if he's met Owen Schmitt.

[traderumor]

I don't get why Americans are so amazed that young people have lots of talent. A 16 year old gets up and sings, or plays a piano, does a Triple Lindy, or a 19 year old hits a baseball really hard and folks just go ga-ga. Never understood it.

[dougdirt]

Harper is now hitting .288/.380/.542 as a 19 year old in the Major Leagues. If he were doing that at his age in AA it would be amazing....

[Superdude]

I don't get why Americans are so amazed that young people have lots of talent. A 16 year old gets up and sings, or plays a piano, does a Triple Lindy, or a 19 year old hits a baseball really hard and folks just go ga-ga. Never understood it.

Silly Americans. You can't understand being impressed with a 19 year old kid pounding out a .922OPS in the big leagues? It must be cool being so mature and levelheaded about such matters...

[TOBTTReds]

I don't get why Americans are so amazed that young people have lots of talent. A 16 year old gets up and sings, or plays a piano, does a Triple Lindy, or a 19 year old hits a baseball really hard and folks just go ga-ga. Never understood it.

Because this is a Man's game. The things you mentioned don't take the physical maturity that it takes to drop bombs against MLB pitchers. 16 year old boys can't just walk in to the big leagues and start mashing.

A lot of 19 year olds hit the ball hard, but none are doing it in the big leagues, let alone as well as Harper. And almost none have done it as well as he has, ever.

Throughout writing this, I was wondering if you were being for real. I decided to continue answering as if you were. And trust me, Europeans get excited for young athletes too. Michael Owen was a sensation for the England soccer team at 18, they were "amazed" too.

[DGullett35]

Wayne Rooney was pegged the next Pele. Seems like every society is fascinated with young stars. The hype for Strasburg was just as great if not more IMO until he got hurt.

[dougdirt]

Wayne Rooney was pegged the next Pele. Seems like every society is fascinated with young stars. The hype for Strasburg was just as great if not more IMO until he got hurt.

Only because he went to college and was able to be ready sooner.

[Ghosts of 1990]

Here's a question for you RZoners on young Harper:

I spent Memorial day in Jersey with my in-laws who are all huge Yankee fans and got into a debate with them about something I value your opinion on so I wanted to get your take on something.

Anyone think the Nationals organization will be able to keep Harper in Washington long-term beyond his arbitration years when the time comes? I know players rarely play their entire career in one city but hoping he's there at least until he's 32 or 33 (no offense to your Yankees fans like my in-laws). Some Nats fans seem to think he is gone when his rookie deal expires in 2018 (still a long ways off), while a few I've talked to say the Nationals owner Lerner has the deepest pockets in baseball and no way he's outbid on Harper, regardless of if its the largest contract ever or not that Harper will command.

[RedlegJake]

I have no idea because I don't know what kind of guy Harper is and he's so young I'm not sure what kind of guy he'll be in 2018. Will he have any sense of loyalty to the fans and city and owner if they get an offer to him in the range other teams are offering? Would he stay then? How can you say with a 19 y/o who will grow and change and mature into someone almost entirely different than who he is right now?

[dougdirt]

Of course there is a chance he stays, Washington is a huge market and should have plenty of money to spend by the time he is a free agent. But, money isn't always what it is about. Does he want a ring? How are the Nationals playing around that time? Does he want to play elsewhere? Simply too many variables at play.

[GoReds]

Of course there is a chance he stays, Washington is a huge market and should have plenty of money to spend by the time he is a free agent. But, money isn't always what it is about. Does he want a ring? How are the Nationals playing around that time? Does he want to play elsewhere? Simply too many variables at play.

Certainly, no one can predict the future. Washington may be a crappy team by the time Harper hits the free agent market, but for the moment, it appears they are laying the groundwork for a long-lasting competitive environment. If they continue in this vein, Harper will have a difficult time leaving provided the organization continues to invest in the players.

[Ghosts of 1990]

Will Washington have the money to keep him and Strasburg?

[cumberlandreds]

2018 is still a long ways off. Lots of things can change in that amount of time. DC is a huge market and that hasn't been tapped yet. If they can ever tap really well into that market the resources will be unlimited and they will be able to afford anyone out there. My bet is that they will be able to keep Harper and Strasburg for their entire careers if they want.

[Ghosts of 1990]

2018 is still a long ways off. Lots of things can change in that amount of time. DC is a huge market and that hasn't been tapped yet. If they can ever tap really well into that market the resources will be unlimited and they will be able to afford anyone out there. My bet is that they will be able to keep Harper and Strasburg for their entire careers if they want.

Wow. Can you imagine? My thought was they would have to pick one or the other to build around.

[traderumor]

Because this is a Man's game. The things you mentioned don't take the physical maturity that it takes to drop bombs against MLB pitchers. 16 year old boys can't just walk in to the big leagues and start mashing.

A lot of 19 year olds hit the ball hard, but none are doing it in the big leagues, let alone as well as Harper. And almost none have done it as well as he has, ever.

Throughout writing this, I was wondering if you were being for real. I decided to continue answering as if you were. And trust me, Europeans get excited for young athletes too. Michael Owen was a sensation for the England soccer team at 18, they were "amazed" too.Yes, I was being for real. Just something I'm not that fascinated with. Its a special talent regardless of age to play MLB, that some guys develop early enough to enter the big leagues, or that they happen to be in the right situation where they get the chance early, just really isn't something that is any more impressive than any other rookie.

[westofyou]

Harper and Trout are special talents, their ages highlight that fact considerably, every generation throws a couple of these guys in the mix, it's if they stick or not that will make them famous, not just getting here at this age

[Johnny Footstool]

Harper won't hit free agency. The Nats will hand him an LTC before he even hits his arb years.

[Ghosts of 1990]

Harper won't hit free agency. The Nats will hand him an LTC before he even hits his arb years.

But he is a Boras client. That's the problem. Boras clients you know, don't do such fair exchanges :eek:

[Johnny Footstool]

They'll pretty much offer Harper a Johnny Bench deal: "Here's a signed contract. You fill in what you think you're worth."

[puca]

They'll pretty much offer Harper a Johnny Bench deal: "Here's a signed contract. You fill in what you think you're worth."

I think there is some doubt that Harper/Boras will sign a LTC before hitting free-agency. Boras probably sees Harper as a guy that can once again to raise the bar for $$ and length of contract.

[Tony Cloninger]

Wow. Can you imagine? My thought was they would have to pick one or the other to build around.


? If The Reds can afford to keep Votto and Phillips.....I am sure that Washington will have enough money to keep both of those guys. It will be a little more ...of course but you make it sound like Washington is San Diego or Pittsburgh in regards to market and money.

[Tony Cloninger]

But he is a Boras client. That's the problem. Boras clients you know, don't do such fair exchanges :eek:

OK...well there is the kicker and I did not know that. Boras is a grade A D Bag....who does what he is paid to do yes....but has never struck me as someone who likes the game or cares about it's health. Just some frustrated ex-minor leaguer who has had an ax to grind with owners and MLB for a while. He always wants to find the loopholes in drafts (Travis Lee among others) and have his players be grossly overpaid and owners bidding against themselves (Forget Alex Rodriguez...look at Darren Driefort)

Yes I do not like the guy. ;)

[Ghosts of 1990]

Scott Boras is the only man in baseball's vast fraternity that I HATE.

I am hoping Harper takes the $300 million dollar offer over 10 years the Nats probably give in two years when he's just 21and signs it; but I could see greedy Boras wanting more.... he is that kind of class-A jerk who ruins the innocent game.

[westofyou]

Scott Boras is the only man in baseball's vast fraternity that I HATE.

I am hoping Harper takes the $300 million dollar offer over 10 years the Nats probably give in two years when he's just 21and signs it; but I could see greedy Boras wanting more.... he is that kind of class-A jerk who ruins the innocent game.

Pretty sure agents aren't included in any baseball fraternity

[Ghosts of 1990]

Pretty sure agents aren't included in any baseball fraternity

Just meant figure surrounding the game in any facet.

[Ghosts of 1990]

Here's a question for you RZoners on young Harper:

I spent Memorial day in Jersey with my in-laws who are all huge Yankee fans and got into a debate with them about something I value your opinion on so I wanted to get your take on something.

Anyone think the Nationals organization will be able to keep Harper in Washington long-term beyond his arbitration years when the time comes? I know players rarely play their entire career in one city but hoping he's there at least until he's 32 or 33 (no offense to your Yankees fans like my in-laws). Some Nats fans seem to think he is gone when his rookie deal expires in 2018 (still a long ways off), while a few I've talked to say the Nationals owner Lerner has the deepest pockets in baseball and no way he's outbid on Harper, regardless of if its the largest contract ever or not that Harper will command.

I wanted to get a few more 'Zoners takes on this before the thread dies forever.

[puca]

Washington will undoubtedly try to sign him and they probably have the resources to make him a very attractive offer. What we don't know is what is in Harper's head/heart and how much influence Boras will have on his choice. He is poised to hit the open market in the prime of his career. Like ARod he could easily set a new bar for cost and length of contract. I'm pretty sure Scotty would like to make that happen, and Bryce himself may want to play on the biggest stage possible. Again I have no doubt that Washington will try and sign him, but both sides must be willing for it to happen.

[membengal]

Nationals are rolling money. Their ownership has deep pockets, and if they experience sustained success, they will draw a ton. Given the new normal of apparently higher media monies available to teams (hence Votto's contract), yes, they can keep both if they want to. Easily.

[Johnny Footstool]

I think the bigger question is "Can the Angels afford to keep Mike Trout?"

[Ghosts of 1990]

I think the bigger question is "Can the Angels afford to keep Mike Trout?"

I think without a doubt.

Trout is the type of kid who would play for free. He'll be very very easy for them to extend. Much more unlikely of a player to go for a $300 or $400 million dollar deal than Bryce Harper is.

[dougdirt]

I just can't get over how good this kid is. He is hitting .288/.375/.528 with 17 walks and 23 strikeouts in 144 plate appearances. He has a 143 OPS+. Has a teenager ever finished a season that high in history? Mel Ott, Tony Conigliaro and Jimmy Foxx were in the 130's. I can't think of anyone else to even check it against.

[Brutus]

I just can't get over how good this kid is. He is hitting .288/.375/.528 with 17 walks and 23 strikeouts in 144 plate appearances. He has a 143 OPS+. Has a teenager ever finished a season that high in history? Mel Ott, Tony Conigliaro and Jimmy Foxx were in the 130's. I can't think of anyone else to even check it against.

Trout is better

:beerme:

[Ghosts of 1990]

He is unreal.

What does he have that mega prospects Bruce & Heyward do not?

[Chip R]

He is unreal.

What does he have that mega prospects Bruce & Heyward do not?

Lack of a second - and more - season.

[Brutus]

Each after the game where they eclipsed 144 plate appearances:

Harper .288/.375/.528/.903 with 5 HR & 14 RBI
Bruce .292/.361/.477/.837 with 6 HR & 19 RBI
Heyward .276/.392/.553/.945 with 8 HR & 29 RBI

[WrongVerb]

He is unreal.

What does he have that mega prospects Bruce & Heyward do not?

This is a bit disjointed, but...

I don't know about Heyward, but Bruce's issue is almost entirely mental. He seems to rest on his laurels a bit, but that isn't quite right. I don't think he actively ever thinks "well, that's good enough for now" but rather, when he wins an award like PoW or PoM, something clicks with him and his effort drops...no, that's not even right...more like he's reached a pinnacle of his ability and when he regresses a bit he doesn't have a baseline to fall back to. That makes him try even harder, which kills his game until he gets untracked a few weeks or months down the road.

If you watch Votto, he always has a baseline performance. If he goes into a funk, he starts concentrating on hitting the ball up the middle and his overall performance doesn't drop much. Bruce's thing might be different (Welsh suggested it might be going the opposite way), but he hasn't found it. So he hits these amazing highs, but drops off precipitously to lower lows. Honestly I think it comes from trying TOO hard, from not trusting his skills and talent and technique, and instead "trying" to make something happen. When he stops trying, the game comes to him and we all know what he can do then.

[westofyou]

I just can't get over how good this kid is. He is hitting .288/.375/.528 with 17 walks and 23 strikeouts in 144 plate appearances. He has a 143 OPS+. Has a teenager ever finished a season that high in history? Mel Ott, Tony Conigliaro and Jimmy Foxx were in the 130's. I can't think of anyone else to even check it against.

Ott is the standard for teens

[Johnny Footstool]

Each after the game where they eclipsed 144 plate appearances:

Harper .288/.375/.528/.903 with 5 HR & 14 RBI
Bruce .292/.361/.477/.837 with 6 HR & 19 RBI
Heyward .276/.392/.553/.945 with 8 HR & 29 RBI

Trout (156 PAs) .331/.385/.547/.931 with 5 HR & 22 RBI

Like Brutus said...

[mbgrayson]

Teenage phenoms? How about Ken Griffey Jr.?

His age 19 season in 1989:
.264/.329/.420 for an OPS of .748, and an OPS+ of 108, with 16 HRs, 61 RBIs, and 16 SBs, in 127 games played.

[Ghosts of 1990]

This is a bit disjointed, but...

I don't know about Heyward, but Bruce's issue is almost entirely mental. He seems to rest on his laurels a bit, but that isn't quite right. I don't think he actively ever thinks "well, that's good enough for now" but rather, when he wins an award like PoW or PoM, something clicks with him and his effort drops...no, that's not even right...more like he's reached a pinnacle of his ability and when he regresses a bit he doesn't have a baseline to fall back to. That makes him try even harder, which kills his game until he gets untracked a few weeks or months down the road.

Have talked to a few people about as close to Jay Bruce as it gets and it's just the opposite.

He doesn't rest on his laurels. He actually still wonders if he belongs at times. More of a confidence thing and when he gets rolling he really REALLY gets rolling and when he's bad wonders how he will ever get a hit again.

[WrongVerb]

Have talked to a few people about as close to Jay Bruce as it gets and it's just the opposite.

He doesn't rest on his laurels. He actually still wonders if he belongs at times. More of a confidence thing and when he gets rolling he really REALLY gets rolling and when he's bad wonders how he will ever get a hit again.

If you read that again, I didn't mean to imply that he rests on his laurels. But I see what you're saying about the confidence thing too. It's like when he starts to go bad, he doesn't have the confidence to rely on his baseline skills and talent until he can get rolling again.

[cumberlandreds]

Have talked to a few people about as close to Jay Bruce as it gets and it's just the opposite.

He doesn't rest on his laurels. He actually still wonders if he belongs at times. More of a confidence thing and when he gets rolling he really REALLY gets rolling and when he's bad wonders how he will ever get a hit again.

That's pretty much what I thought. He just starts thining too much when times aren't so good at the plate. If he could ever to learn to just relax and just know he will come out of these slumps. Then they might not last as long as they do now.

[jojo]

Trout (156 PAs) .331/.385/.547/.931 with 5 HR & 22 RBI

Like Brutus said...

Trout is doing that at age 20 though.... here's his age 19 stats: .220/.281/.390; OPS: .672; OPS+: 87.

[Johnny Footstool]

Trout is doing that at age 20 though.... here's his age 19 stats: .220/.281/.390; OPS: .672; OPS+: 87.

A completely valid point that I overlooked.

[Cyclone792]

I just can't get over how good this kid is. He is hitting .288/.375/.528 with 17 walks and 23 strikeouts in 144 plate appearances. He has a 143 OPS+. Has a teenager ever finished a season that high in history? Mel Ott, Tony Conigliaro and Jimmy Foxx were in the 130's. I can't think of anyone else to even check it against.

Like woy said, Ott's the standard for teenagers. Foxx only had 147 plate appearances during his age 19 season so he didn't really have a large enough sample.

Here's the list of teens with a RC/27 ratio higher than 100 (league average) with a minimum 300 plate appearances. The list is rather small and is littered with Hall of Famers (and a few guys like Magee and Sheckard who probably should be in the Hall).



SEASON
AGE < 20
RCAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
PLATE APPEARANCES displayed only--not a sorting criteria
AGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria

RUNS CREATED/GAME YEAR RATE PLAYER LEAGUE RCAA PA AGE
1 Mel Ott 1928 146 7.76 5.30 29 499 19
2 Tony Conigliaro 1964 143 6.35 4.43 19 444 19
3 Ty Cobb 1906 142 5.92 4.17 12 394 19
4 Sherry Magee 1904 116 5.10 4.40 8 387 19
5 Mickey Mantle 1951 114 5.67 4.95 13 386 19
6 Ken Griffey Jr. 1989 114 4.92 4.30 6 506 19
7 Monte Ward 1879 112 5.80 5.17 8 371 19
8 Cesar Cedeno 1970 112 5.46 4.89 9 377 19
9 Jimmy Sheckard 1898 109 5.70 5.21 8 459 19
10 Edgar Renteria 1996 104 5.28 5.06 6 471 19
11 Joe Quinn 1884 102 5.65 5.53 3 438 19
12 George Davis 1890 101 6.11 6.07 4 583 19

[Ghosts of 1990]

Another 3 for 4 with a walk tonight. Almost to .300 now with nearly 150 AB's under his belt.

The only guy who got him out tonight was Coco Cordero... Also did anyone see that mammoth bomb in his first game at Fenway this past Friday? He was fun to watch on a Reds off-night.

[cumberlandreds]

Looking forward to seeing Harper in person. I'm going to the Nationals/Yankees game Saturday afternoon. Harper wasn't up with the Nats in April when I went to see them play the Reds. Nats also have Morse back. So their lineup has some more pop in it.

[westofyou]

Another 3 for 4 with a walk tonight. Almost to .300 now with nearly 150 AB's under his belt.

The only guy who got him out tonight was Coco Cordero... Also did anyone see that mammoth bomb in his first game at Fenway this past Friday? He was fun to watch on a Reds off-night.

Mike Trout had an equally nice game last night too, hit a HR, singled in the 9th and stole second, scored the winning run on a bloop single to LF

[TOBTTReds]

Mike Trout had an equally nice game last night too, hit a HR, singled in the 9th and stole second, scored the winning run on a bloop single to LF

Yeah, but Trout is so old now...

[westofyou]

Yeah, but Trout is so old now...

But.... I have shoes older than him!!

[OesterPoster]

But.... I have shoes older than him!!

This is funny, because I just retired an 18 year old wallet.

[blumj]

Heck, I have shoes older than all of them, at least until the next Moyer comeback. Sure, the older than Darren Oliver ones are kind of tight, but they're still kicking around in the closet.

[Ghosts of 1990]

Trout and Harper are the two best prospects I've seen in 20 years.

[Screwball]

If Trout had to face Brad Salmon, who would win?

[cumberlandreds]

If Trout had to face Brad Salmon, who would win?

Carlos Fisher would have caught them both. :)

[Big Klu]

Don't forget Kevin Bass.

[jojo]

Carlos Fisher would have caught them both. :)

Catfish Hunter would've thrown them both back.... ;)

[Screwball]

Carlos Fisher would have caught them both. :)

:laugh:

Good work.

[RedsManRick]

Catfish Hunter would've thrown them both back.... ;)

Perhaps they would have landed near Kevin Bass or Mike Carp.

[Brutus]

Mike Trout had an equally nice game last night too, hit a HR, singled in the 9th and stole second, scored the winning run on a bloop single to LF

I seriously don't understand the lack of hype about Trout. He doesn't have Harper's power, but he has everything else including speed and defense -- something Harper doesn't really have.

I would take Trout straight-up given a choice between the two.

[dougdirt]

I seriously don't understand the lack of hype about Trout. He doesn't have Harper's power, but he has everything else including speed and defense -- something Harper doesn't really have.

I would take Trout straight-up given a choice between the two.

Harper is a plus runner. Trout is just a plus plus runner. Trout has the defense. Harper will get there, at least at his position.

The lack of hype with Trout is more due to the fact we didn't know his name at 15 and well, chicks dig the long ball. Trout was the #2 and #3 prospect in all of baseball each of the last two seasons. He certainly got his due. He just didn't get what Harper got. And to be honest, he probably shouldn't have. Look at Harper at 19 and compare it to what Trout did at 19. Now Trout is having an age 20 season for the history books, but that .410 BABIP probably won't hold up and he is going to fall off some. Harper is sporting a .312 BABIP right now, certainly something sustainable and is having the best season in the history of the game for someone at age 19.

[jojo]

Jeff Sullivan laments the injustice associated with baseball players named after fish..

http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2010/3/27/1393511/professional-baseball-players

[Screwball]

Jeff Sullivan laments the injustice associated with baseball players named after fish..

http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2010/3/27/1393511/professional-baseball-players


I won't feel better about this until I see a Timothy Labrador or Staphylococcus Jones, but even those would be only a start.

Staphylococcus Jones. This thread's awesome.

[klw]

Well there have been rumors of the Nats seeking veteran catching depth and a veteran reliever in the past couple of weeks and with Erik Komatsu being returned to them they appear to have a lot of depth at OF. How about Navarro and Bill Bray to the Nats for Harper? It would give the Reds the lefty bat they are rumored to be seeking and would fill in the LF hole as Harper and Hi-C/Ludwick could platoon. If the Nats needed the Reds to take on some salary and needed to dump Lannan in the deal, I could see adding Lannan and Ludwick to the swap but I could understand if this would be too much for the Reds to give up. Navarro would be a lot to give up with Corky being off limits, I think the Reds should consider this if the Nats call.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

:laugh:

[RedEye]

Well there have been rumors of the Nats seeking veteran catching depth and a veteran reliever in the past couple of weeks and with Erik Komatsu being returned to them they appear to have a lot of depth at OF. How about Navarro and Bill Bray to the Nats for Harper? It would give the Reds the lefty bat they are rumored to be seeking and would fill in the LF hole as Harper and Hi-C/Ludwick could platoon. If the Nats needed the Reds to take on some salary and needed to dump Lannan in the deal, I could see adding Lannan and Ludwick to the swap but I could understand if this would be too much for the Reds to give up. Navarro would be a lot to give up with Corky being off limits, I think the Reds should consider this if the Nats call.

Absolutely don't want to give up Navarro. The Reds need depth at C desperately as Hanigan has no power and Mesoraco is hitting under .200. Bray is just too valuable from the left side, too. Letting him go would pretty much staple Chapman's arm to the bullpen for the next four seasons. Pass.

[Brutus]

Harper is a plus runner. Trout is just a plus plus runner. Trout has the defense. Harper will get there, at least at his position.

The lack of hype with Trout is more due to the fact we didn't know his name at 15 and well, chicks dig the long ball. Trout was the #2 and #3 prospect in all of baseball each of the last two seasons. He certainly got his due. He just didn't get what Harper got. And to be honest, he probably shouldn't have. Look at Harper at 19 and compare it to what Trout did at 19. Now Trout is having an age 20 season for the history books, but that .410 BABIP probably won't hold up and he is going to fall off some. Harper is sporting a .312 BABIP right now, certainly something sustainable and is having the best season in the history of the game for someone at age 19.

I think people are getting too caught up at the whole "look what he's doing at age 19" type stuff. The difference between 19 and 20 is negligible, especially since from player to player, development is never identical.

Harper is a great player, and has a tremendous bat. For all we know, though, at 20 years old he could drop off the face of the earth. Certainly it's not likely, but there's no guarantee what he's doing will continue going forward. There's no guarantee of Trout, either, and certainly you're right that BABIP will probably take a bit of a dip.

All I'm saying is that guys like Mike Trout don't come along very often that have his power, speed, baserunning and defense. The value he'll provide, likely, for years to come in center will (IMHO), exceed that of Harper. I think both are exceptional players, but I don't think Harper or Trout's first 100 plate appearances should be the reason too much for the hype. If it is, then people are focusing too much on the stats and not enough on the tools. When examining the tools, that more than the stats are why I think Trout is not getting enough attention.

[blumj]

Some part of it is probably the west coast thing, the "look what Trout did tonight" goes on while many of us are sleeping.

[jojo]

Harper has had a hype head start. I don't really see it as an issue worth lamenting.

Harper is having a historic age 19 year. It's newsworthy.

[Cedric]

This is amazing. I hope he continues this and becomes what everyone thinks he will.

[cincyinco]

I seriously don't understand the lack of hype about Trout. He doesn't have Harper's power, but he has everything else including speed and defense -- something Harper doesn't really have.

I would take Trout straight-up given a choice between the two.

Just a quick note Brutus, but I dont think its quite fair to compare their defense against one another quite yet.. Harper was drafted as a catcher after all, and hasn't really had a ton of time in the OF if I'm not mistaken..

Both are fun players to watch. Just be glad we have the opportunity to witness these 2(plus Joey Votto :)) play the game with grace and skill.
:thumbup:

[dougdirt]

Just a quick note Brutus, but I dont think its quite fair to compare their defense against one another quite yet.. Harper was drafted as a catcher after all, and hasn't really had a ton of time in the OF if I'm not mistaken..

168 games after last night. In his entire life.

[dougdirt]

Harper, after last night: .307/.390/.553

[oneupper]

Harper, after last night: .307/.390/.553

Amazing!
I envy the Nationals for having Harper and Davey Johnson.

[Ghosts of 1990]

Amazing!
I envy the Nationals for having Harper and Davey Johnson.

This.

[cumberlandreds]

Amazing!
I envy the Nationals for having Harper and Davey Johnson.

And Stasburg. And the two Zimmermans. And Gio. And Morse. The Nats are certainly a young and coming team. It really wouldn't surprise me if they win that division this year. With Harper looking so good and Morse coming back and add that Worth will be back late July or August they may be in good shape for the rest of the season.

[Tom Servo]

Gotta give props to their GM Rizzo, who inherited quite a mess from a certain Mr. Leatherpants.

[cumberlandreds]

Gotta give props to their GM Rizzo, who inherited quite a mess from a certain Mr. Leatherpants.

......and MLB. The Nats were basically an expansion team when they came to DC. Not much of a farm system with little talent at the MLB level. The ownership that finally acquired the Nats have done a very good job building this franchise.

[reds44]

Clown question, bro.

[Chip R]

Amazing!
I envy the Nationals for having Harper and Davey Johnson.

Helped being the worst team in baseball for several years in a row to be able to draft them. I sure don't envy them for that.

[OnBaseMachine]

That's a clown question, bro.

http://blogs.thescore.com/mlb/2012/06/13/thats-a-clown-question-bro/

Harper is incredible. A .950 OPS as a 19-year old at the MLB level is mind-boggling.

[cumberlandreds]

Don't look now but the Nats have another rookie having a big day today. Tyler Moore has 2 hrs and 5 rbi's in their game against the Jays this afternoon.

[Tom Servo]

Don't look now but the Nats have another rookie having a big day today. Tyler Moore has 2 hrs and 5 rbi's in their game against the Jays this afternoon.
Even with their injuries, everything just seems to be going the Nats way. Good for them.

[Ghosts of 1990]

They're pretty awesome to watch. A complete team that does it all.

[oneupper]

Helped being the worst team in baseball for several years in a row to be able to draft them. I sure don't envy them for that.

Maybe that was part of the plan. Kind of like "The Producers" of Baseball.

"We need to suck for a few years to get some really good draft picks"
"Hmmm...who's the worst GM you can think of?"

Jim Bowden is "Hitler on Ice".

[Chip R]

Don't look now but the Nats have another rookie having a big day today. Tyler Moore has 2 hrs and 5 rbi's in their game against the Jays this afternoon.

Who can turn the world on with his bat?

[cumberlandreds]

Who can turn the world on with his bat?

I'm hoping the Nats play the MTM theme song when he comes to bat. :)

I didn't realize until I looked at the standings this morning that the Nats have the 2nd best record in baseball. Just a game behind the Dodgers. Who would have thunk it?

[RichRed]

Who can turn the world on with his bat?

Ha! I chuckled.

[VottoFan54]

Bryce Harper had a rough day today. He was 0-7 with 5 Ks in the Nationals loss to the Yankees.

[Team Clark]

Bryce Harper had a rough day today. He was 0-7 with 5 Ks in the Nationals loss to the Yankees.

Probably left his cape at home. He won't forget it again. :thumbup:

[kaldaniels]

Probably left his cape at home. He won't forget it again. :thumbup:

What is that, the Diamond Sombero?

[cumberlandreds]

Bryce Harper had a rough day today. He was 0-7 with 5 Ks in the Nationals loss to the Yankees.

I was there and saw it in person. He couldn't touch an Andy Pettite slow breaking balls. That's all he threw him and he just kept waving at them. At one time Pettite had struck him out three times on 11 pitches. Just the normal learning curve for a rookie. In the long run he will be just fine.

[edabbs44]

I was there and saw it in person. He couldn't touch an Andy Pettite slow breaking balls. That's all he threw him and he just kept waving at them. At one time Pettite had struck him out three times on 11 pitches. Just the normal learning curve for a rookie. In the long run he will be just fine.

I wonder if he will be fed a steady diet of those pitches until he can adjust.

[cumberlandreds]

I wonder if he will be fed a steady diet of those pitches until he can adjust.

A pitcher would be crazy not to until he proves he can hit the slow breaking stuff.

[dougdirt]

Harper has actually been hitting the curveball very well this year according to fangraphs. The average speed of the curves he has faced this year is 76.2 MPH.

[wolfboy]

Since many (including me) were quick to post evidence of Harper's jerkiness, I thought it was only fair to post evidence of Harper's non-jerkiness. I stumbled across this video on youtube today. Harper makes a young Reds fan's day at GABP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tKzmv-5pfw

[TSJ55]

Just stole one of JV's fans.

[RichRed]

Another positive, albeit heartbreaking, story involving Harper.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/2013070552807226/

[Roy Tucker]

Another positive, albeit heartbreaking, story involving Harper.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/2013070552807226/

This is going to make it pretty hard to continue to not like Harper.

A true act of kindness. Well done, Bryce.

[Nasty_Boy]

Another positive, albeit heartbreaking, story involving Harper.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/2013070552807226/

I have met the little boy once, and I know the boy's father, grandparents, etc very well... A great loving family! They are from Ohio (Reds country) and love their Buckeyes. I hope they are comforted during these tough times! Just a terribly sad situation that breaks my heart for such a sweet child.

[RichRed]

This is going to make it pretty hard to continue to not like Harper.

A true act of kindness. Well done, Bryce.

I'm a pretty cynical guy but I have to admit when I got to the part where Harper asked for Gavin's autograph, it got a little dusty in here.

[Always Red]

This is going to make it pretty hard to continue to not like Harper.

A true act of kindness. Well done, Bryce.

Great story, that 20 year old man child is maturing quickly.

[VR]

Of all stories from pro sports, these are always the ones I love reading.

Pro players have such a gift to share, it's inspiring to read the stories of the athletes that get it.

[Nasty_Boy]

I'm a pretty cynical guy but I have to admit when I got to the part where Harper asked for Gavin's autograph, it got a little dusty in here.

I cried like a baby reading this story

[KittyDuran]

I cried like a baby reading this story

Good thing it's lightly sprinkling here @ GABP... Just heartbreaking. :(

[NebraskaRed]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/nationals-watch/2013/sep/3/bryce-harper-receiving-treatment-hip/

Harper has been receiving treatment on his hip, and Davey Johnson is pretty upset that he didn't know anything about it.


“I was a little disturbed that I wasn’t informed that he was having some treatment on his hip,” Johnson said. “But every time anybody talks to Harp, he says: ‘I’m fine, I’m fine, I’m fine.’ So I’m going to stick with him.”