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View Full Version : And your SP for the National League All Stars is...



powersackers
04-28-2012, 03:40 PM
Kyle Lohse (4-0, 1.62 ERA)

Other candidates?

Joseph
04-28-2012, 03:51 PM
I imagine several will emerge between now and July. Potentially even ours. Lohse isn't 'sexy' as a pitcher either. If someone like Clayton Kershaw comes along and strings together a good couple months, we might well see him.

Then again with LaRussa in the chair one last time it does lend credence towards a Card.

_Sir_Charles_
04-28-2012, 06:47 PM
Kyle Lohse (4-0, 1.62 ERA)

Other candidates?

Sadly enough, here's 3.

Kyle Lohse 4-0 1.62 era
Lance Lynn 4-0 1.33 era
Jake Westbrook 3-1 1.30 era

There's just something terribly wrong with that picture. I know that Lohse has shown improvement the past few years so I understand him "a bit". But Lynn? Westbrook? I mean eventually the luck has to stop, right? RIGHT?

klw
04-28-2012, 06:51 PM
RK PLAYER TEAM GP GS IP H R ER BB SO W L SV HLD BLSV WHIP ERA
1 Ted Lilly LAD 3 3 20.0 9 3 2 8 11 2 0 0 0 0 0.85 0.90
Joe Saunders ARI 4 4 30.0 19 4 3 7 18 2 1 0 0 0 0.87 0.90
3 Brandon Beachy ATL 4 4 25.2 18 7 3 7 20 2 1 0 0 0 0.97 1.05
4 Stephen Strasburg 4 4 25.0 17 3 3 6 25 2 0 0 0 0 0.92 1.08
5 Jake Westbrook STL 4 4 27.2 21 6 4 7 15 3 1 0 0 0 1.01 1.30
6 Ryan Dempster CHC 3 3 20.1 11 5 3 8 23 0 1 0 0 0 0.93 1.33
7 Jordan Zimmermann 4 4 27.0 17 5 4 2 16 1 1 0 0 0 0.70 1.33

Slyder
04-28-2012, 06:56 PM
Westbrook and Lohse will crash back to earth. Unless LaRussa found some good stuff for pitchers to go along with the "Mac Attack" :D.

Benihana
04-28-2012, 08:30 PM
Johnny Cueto

_Sir_Charles_
04-28-2012, 09:00 PM
That goes without saying Beni.

VR
04-29-2012, 12:22 AM
Johnny Cueto

3-0 1.39.

I guess last year was not a fluke.

Ghosts of 1990
04-29-2012, 12:53 AM
strasburg.

The Operator
04-29-2012, 04:11 AM
Johnny CuetoUnless his hand is forced, I honestly could see The Genius leaving Cueto off of the team because of the whole kicking incident. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.

PuffyPig
04-29-2012, 08:08 AM
Let's see how Lohse fairs when his .200 BABIP and 0% HR/FB rate normalizes.

_Sir_Charles_
04-29-2012, 12:18 PM
Let's see how Lohse fairs when his .200 BABIP and 0% HR/FB rate normalizes.

Wait....St. Louis luck normalizes?!? News to me. :p

PuffyPig
04-29-2012, 04:30 PM
Wait....St. Louis luck normalizes?!? News to me. :p

Well, I guarantee their bad luck always does....

_Sir_Charles_
04-29-2012, 04:46 PM
Well, I guarantee their bad luck always does....

LOL. Nice.

MikeThierry
04-29-2012, 05:21 PM
Wait... I thought Lohse was league average? :laugh:

reds44
04-29-2012, 05:23 PM
Garza.

jojo
04-29-2012, 06:53 PM
If I had to make the decision today? Strasburg, Hamels, and probably Greinke.

757690
04-29-2012, 07:26 PM
If I had to make the decision today? Strasburg, Hamels, and probably Greinke.

You're kidding about Greinke, right? I know he has a great K/BB, but seriously?

jojo
04-29-2012, 08:16 PM
You're kidding about Greinke, right? I know he has a great K/BB, but seriously?

Yep.

757690
04-29-2012, 08:29 PM
Yep.

It's just that there are many other pitchers who have been very impressive, and didn't allow 8 runs to the Cubs. ;)

jojo
04-29-2012, 09:11 PM
It's just that there are many other pitchers who have been very impressive, and didn't allow 8 runs to the Cubs. ;)

His babip isn't real.

757690
04-29-2012, 09:27 PM
His babip isn't real.

At this point in the season, there are enough guys who have been dominant, who have not had a blowout yet. Since we are only talking about who we would pick at this very point, anyone who has had a blow out should be eliminated. Unless you want to argue that giving up 8 runs to the Cubs in 3+ innings was all luck and Greinke had nothing to do with it.

marcshoe
04-29-2012, 09:32 PM
I'd love to see Cueto, of course, but all else being equal my money would be on Strasburg, because viewers would tune in to see the hot young kid.

jojo
04-29-2012, 09:41 PM
At this point in the season, there are enough guys who have been dominant, who have not had a blowout yet. Since we are only talking about who we would pick at this very point, anyone who has had a blow out should be eliminated. Unless you want to argue that giving up 8 runs to the Cubs in 3+ innings was all luck and Greinke had nothing to do with it.

I disagree. Grienke has been dominant.

TheNext44
04-29-2012, 09:42 PM
His babip isn't real.

But all the runs he has given up are. We can argue all day how much control he had over them, but if I'm picking a starter for the All-Star game, I am going by who has been both good and lucky.

jojo
04-29-2012, 09:48 PM
But all the runs he has given up are. We can argue all day how much control he had over them, but if I'm picking a starter for the All-Star game, I am going by who has been both good and lucky.

Fine. If you don't like Zach, go with Gio.

VR
05-10-2012, 02:23 AM
Heeeeeeeere's Johnny.


1.12 is one of those transcendent baseball numbers of the modern era, and now it's attached to our very own Johnny Cueto. At least temporarily.

buckeyenut
05-10-2012, 06:30 AM
I know it is very early, but at this point, don't Cueto, Bruce and Chapman all have to go?

cumberlandreds
05-10-2012, 08:29 AM
Heeeeeeeere's Johnny.


1.12 is one of those transcendent baseball numbers of the modern era, and now it's attached to our very own Johnny Cueto. At least temporarily.

Cueto is in Bob Gibson territory with that ERA. Amazing! I would think at the moment he would start the ASG for the NL. But we still have a ways to go.
Possibles for the Reds are Cueto,Bruce,Votto,Chapman and even Ondrusek. Phillips still has a good shot too. I'm sure he will pick up his hitting.

Cyclone792
05-10-2012, 08:38 AM
Cueto is in Bob Gibson territory with that ERA. Amazing! I would think at the moment he would start the ASG for the NL. But we still have a ways to go.

Cueto would have to be worlds ahead of the rest of the league to get the starting nod in the ASG this year. I just can't see LaRussa starting him unless there would be a massive media meltdown.

_Sir_Charles_
05-10-2012, 08:39 AM
I'd be stunned if Votto didn't make it. I'd be equally stunned if Chapman DID make it. They don't have a very good track record on taking set-up relievers for the ASG.

cumberlandreds
05-10-2012, 09:46 AM
I'd be stunned if Votto didn't make it. I'd be equally stunned if Chapman DID make it. They don't have a very good track record on taking set-up relievers for the ASG.

It seems like they have taken a set up guy the last couple of years. But I can't remember for sure.

CySeymour
05-10-2012, 09:53 AM
It seems like they have taken a set up guy the last couple of years. But I can't remember for sure.

Arthur Rhodes got to go in 2010

MikeThierry
05-10-2012, 11:39 AM
Cueto would have to be worlds ahead of the rest of the league to get the starting nod in the ASG this year. I just can't see LaRussa starting him unless there would be a massive media meltdown.

Good point. You all have to remember who's making the roster this year. As much as I like TLR, he does hold grudges and I still think he isn't fond of Cueto that much after what happened several years ago. If it's between Cueto and Lynn, there is no question in my mind that Lynn would get the nod even if Cueto fully deserved it.

DGullett35
05-10-2012, 11:46 AM
If Johnny keeps his current pace up, and even if the ERA rises a little I think he would have to get a very strong consideration to be the starter.

buckeyenut
05-11-2012, 07:22 AM
The thing about Chapman is he is a high profile guy, higher profile than some of the closers in the league. I can see him going over someone else because of that

Degenerate39
05-11-2012, 07:33 AM
Would LaRussa pick Cueto though?

Chip R
05-11-2012, 09:22 AM
Would LaRussa pick Cueto though?

It's not just LaRussa who makes the picks. He will have input but others will also have input as well.

LoganBuck
05-11-2012, 09:57 AM
You guys are all overlooking the obvious choice, Madison Bumgarner.

PuffyPig
05-11-2012, 10:25 AM
The starting pitcher of the all star game is often someone who is well rested (so he can go 2 innings) and is often someone who has paid his dues. Usually there are many deserving pitchers and other factors are involved besides straight stats.

I doubt either Cueto or Lynn will get the start unless they are rested and their stats simply dwarf the others.

kaldaniels
05-11-2012, 10:26 AM
You guys are all overlooking the obvious choice, Madison Bumgarner.

How is he obvious? I'm afraid I'm missing sarcasm.

powersackers
05-11-2012, 11:07 AM
Cueto then Strasburg are the only Obvious choices right now. Bumgarner pitches in a very friendly pitchers park and is likely on the team, as a top 5-10 NL starter though.

Caveat Emperor
05-11-2012, 11:13 AM
If you're handicapping the race now (and why would you, since it's barely mid-May):

1. Strasburg
2. Lynn
3. Gonzalez
4. Cueto
5. Dempster

I still imagine that Cole Hamels will work his name into consideration before it's all said and done.

jojo
05-11-2012, 01:06 PM
I think the Reds might be looking at Votto, Phillips, Chapman and Cueto as all stars. Jay Bruce may also be included.

MikeThierry
05-11-2012, 02:15 PM
Would you all be offended, like I would, if Chipper Jones wasn't added to the AS roster? He has to be in the AS game in my opinion even if he isn't voted in.

Caveat Emperor
05-11-2012, 02:27 PM
Would you all be offended, like I would, if Chipper Jones wasn't added to the AS roster? He has to be in the AS game in my opinion even if he isn't voted in.

Agreed. This is a Cal Ripken Jr. situation where the career demands one last appearance in the All Star game.

kaldaniels
05-11-2012, 02:29 PM
Would you all be offended, like I would, if Chipper Jones wasn't added to the AS roster? He has to be in the AS game in my opinion even if he isn't voted in.

Just to answer I would not be offended. Maybe for a once in a generation player you HAVE to throw a bone to, but Chipper is not that tier. Now I would not be offended if he made it either.

cumberlandreds
05-11-2012, 02:38 PM
Would you all be offended, like I would, if Chipper Jones wasn't added to the AS roster? He has to be in the AS game in my opinion even if he isn't voted in.

Not at all. IMO, he's a HOFer and should be honored by being an all star this year since he's already announced he's retiring after this season. I think Mays and Aaron were rewarded like this in their final season too.

MikeThierry
05-11-2012, 04:00 PM
Just to answer I would not be offended. Maybe for a once in a generation player you HAVE to throw a bone to, but Chipper is not that tier. Now I would not be offended if he made it either.

You could make an argument that he is the best switch hitter in the history of the game. I still think Mantle was better but if you look at it from the standpoint of an excellent defender at a high demanding position, him being a switch hitter, and his longevity; to me he is a once in a generation type player. Maybe I'm biased because I've always like the guy.

RedFanAlways1966
05-11-2012, 04:03 PM
You could make an argument that he is the best switch hitter in the history of the game. I still think Mantle was better...

Pete Rose will tell you himself that he is the best. I'll bet on it. ;)

Slyder
05-12-2012, 11:34 PM
If Johnny keeps his current pace up, and even if the ERA rises a little I think he would have to get a very strong consideration to be the starter.

Prediction: As long as he's healthy it's Strausburg's to lose. MLB would love the added interest as a former #1 pick is already in baseball's summer's classic. He would drive the views for the all star game.

klw
06-14-2012, 08:31 AM
I have to think that Matt Cain is looking like the starter at this point despite the silly good seasons Mssrs. Dickey and Lynn are having. both threw amazing games last night as well.

edabbs44
06-14-2012, 08:39 AM
It's amazing. In 2000, there were 2 pitchers in the NL with sub 3 ERAs. Kevin Brown and The Unit with Maddux at exactly 3. There are currently 17 in the NL today, including Beachy, Dickey, Vogelsong, Wade Miley, Lance Lynn and James McDonald. It's a different era.

cumberlandreds
06-14-2012, 08:57 AM
It's amazing. In 2000, there were 2 pitchers in the NL with sub 3 ERAs. Kevin Brown and The Unit with Maddux at exactly 3. There are currently 17 in the NL today, including Beachy, Dickey, Vogelsong, Wade Miley, Lance Lynn and James McDonald. It's a different era.

Not as much juice for the hitters these days.

PuffyPig
06-14-2012, 09:17 AM
Pete Rose will tell you himself that he is the best. I'll bet on it. ;)


I wouldn't bet on it, but he surely would.

AtomicDumpling
06-14-2012, 05:35 PM
Not as much juice for the hitters these days.

But the average player is bigger and stronger now than they were at the height of the steroid era. About half of the players caught juicing were pitchers. The steroid era ended well before run scoring began to quickly drop in the last couple years.

The reasons scoring is down are stronger emphasis on defensive skill, defensive shifting, use of video to find hitters' weaknesses, the humidor, larger population equals larger talent pool to draw pitchers from, greatly improved science of pitching mechanics, most pitchers now throw multiple pitches well, the advent of the cut fastball, greater use of situational relievers, the average fastball velocity has rapidly risen around the league, and last and most significantly is the medical science that has repaired excellent pitchers and kept them pitching at their best level even after arm injuries that would have reduced their effectiveness and ended their careers previously.

REDSEER
06-24-2012, 05:28 PM
La Russa says he has spent a lot of time thinking about the NL roster for the July 10 game in Kansas City. When asked if Mets knuckleballer R.A. Dickey or Giants ace Matt Cain would get the start, La Russa also added Cardinals pitchers Adam Wainwright and Lance Lynn into the mix.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/allstar12/story/_/id/8091477/2012-mlb-all-star-game-tony-la-russa-mulling-national-league-roster

He can't be serious about Wainwright, can he?

cumberlandreds
06-25-2012, 08:18 AM
Projecting Cueto's starts, he will be scheduled to pitch the Sunday before the all star break. That may prevent him from even being on the team, much less start the game.

_Sir_Charles_
06-25-2012, 08:26 AM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/allstar12/story/_/id/8091477/2012-mlb-all-star-game-tony-la-russa-mulling-national-league-roster (http://espn.go.com/mlb/allstar12/story/_/id/8091477/2012-mlb-all-star-game-tony-la-russa-mulling-national-league-roster)

He can't be serious about Wainwright, can he?

Considering Lynn's era is well above 3.00 now I'm not so sure he should take Lynn seriously either. I'd be looking at Dickey, Cain, Strasberg, McDonald (yes...seriously), Cueto, Greinke, Kershaw, Gonzales and Capuano. I'm still stunned by Capuano's stats thus far.

Big Klu
06-25-2012, 09:17 AM
Projecting Cueto's starts, he will be scheduled to pitch the Sunday before the all star break. That may prevent him from even being on the team, much less start the game.

No, Tony LaRussa being the manager prevents Cueto from being on the team.

cumberlandreds
06-25-2012, 09:22 AM
To the winners go the spoils. I'm sure LaRussa will load up the NL all star team with Cardinals. Charlie Manual did it with Phillies a couple of times. I don't have that much of a problem with it. If you want to see more Reds then they need to get to a World Series. It may not be fair but that's the way things are now.

mth123
06-25-2012, 08:21 PM
To the winners go the spoils. I'm sure LaRussa will load up the NL all star team with Cardinals. Charlie Manual did it with Phillies a couple of times. I don't have that much of a problem with it. If you want to see more Reds then they need to get to a World Series. It may not be fair but that's the way things are now.

:thumbup:

I'd love to see Cueto get the honor, but I'd be just as thrilled with him geytting the rest.

BearcatShane
06-25-2012, 11:26 PM
Cueto is slated to pitch the Sunday before the All Star game so he will not be starting it or playing in it.

RedsManRick
06-26-2012, 09:04 AM
I'd say Matt Cain is the most likely candidate when you consider having paid his dues and his performance so far, including the perfecto. I would have supported Brandon Beachy had he not gotten hurt. Others in the running include RA Dickey, Cueto, Greinke, Strasburg, Gio Gonzalez and Clayton Kershaw. James McDonald and Ryan Vogelsong should make the team (Dempster could too, but he's hurt). Barring injury or total collapse, it's hard seeing any of those guys left off the roster without at least being in the final 5. The big sleeper is the D'Backs' Wade Miley, who is doing a startling good Johnny Cueto impression.

jojo
06-26-2012, 09:59 AM
The most compelling argument for Cueto being the NL starter for the AS game is based upon his era over his last 250 innings. Any look deeper makes it alot tougher to justify him as the best starting pitcher in the league. For instance, looking at pitcher peripherals over that period bumps him off of the roster entirely IMHO by pushing him off of a list of the top ten most dominant starting pitchers in the NL since 2011.

Cueto has been great. I'm just not at a place where I'd vote for him as the guy who should start the all-star game for the NL and for as good as he'd been, I could see someone arguing that he shouldn't even be on the roster if you have to represent the bullpen as well.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2012, 10:57 AM
If I were to have to make the call right now...I'd say R.A. Dickey and not even think twice.

mattfeet
06-26-2012, 11:01 AM
If I were to have to make the call right now...I'd say R.A. Dickey and not even think twice.

Agreed. Im not sure how folks can say otherwise. He's been the most dominating NL pitcher for the first half of the 2012 season, hands down.

Benihana
06-26-2012, 11:02 AM
Not saying he must be the starter, but it's a joke if Cueto doesn't make the All-Star Team.

MikeThierry
06-26-2012, 11:29 AM
I don't think TLR will overlook Cueto if he can play in the All Star game. As BearcatShane pointed out, he is scheduled to start that Sunday before the All Star game so he might not even be eligible to play.

lidspinner
06-26-2012, 11:37 AM
I want all the Reds to get their rest and eat their wheaties while the ASB is in....I would love to look out there and see a National League team full of Cardinal and Pirate players....nothing would make me more happy than to know our guys are not traveling across the country, playing in a game that does nothing to help our standings in the Central....I want them laying in their own bed doing what ever it is that they do to recharge the batteries....the 2nd half of the season is going to be intense and we need all hands on deck. I know its only 4 days off but they all count when your in a race for a title...every little advantage helps and having rest is a big advantage in my book.

MikeThierry
06-26-2012, 12:04 PM
I think the "problem" with the Reds pertaining to the All Star game is that their talent seems to be in the bullpen. Yes, Votto fully deserves to be voted in but other than him and Phillips, who in the Reds lineup truly deserves to be in the AS Game? The problem with the AS Game is that an emphasis is always put on everyday players and starting pitchers. Relievers tend to be left out of the conversation except for maybe a couple of closers. So the Reds might be in 1st place but the Cards will get more players in the AS game simply because their lineup is significantly better than the Reds. This would be true this year even if TLR wasn't managing. The Cards will probably have 4-5 players in the AS game, not counting Lynn (he might still get an AS nod). The Reds will probably get Votto, Phillips, and maybe Cueto. It's the nature of the beast.

Benihana
06-26-2012, 12:06 PM
I think the "problem" with the Reds pertaining to the All Star game is that their talent seems to be in the bullpen. Yes, Votto fully deserves to be voted in but other than him and Phillips, who in the Reds lineup truly deserves to be in the AS Game? The problem with the AS Game is that an emphasis is always put on everyday players and starting pitchers. Relievers tend to be left out of the conversation except for maybe a couple of closers. So the Reds might be in 1st place but the Cards will get more players in the AS game simply because their lineup is significantly better than the Reds. This would be true this year even if TLR wasn't managing. The Cards will probably have 4-5 players in the AS game, not counting Lynn (he might still get an AS nod). The Reds will probably get Votto, Phillips, and maybe Cueto. It's the nature of the beast.

I'd be pretty surprised if Chapman doesn't make it.

MikeThierry
06-26-2012, 12:13 PM
I'd be pretty surprised if Chapman doesn't make it.

I used to think that was certain. Now I'm not so sure. If his bad play continues, he might pitch himself out of an AS nod.

DGullett35
06-26-2012, 03:56 PM
Cueto has shown that this year he may be the 3rd best pitcher in the NL. Cain(mainly because of the perfect game. I remember we had success against him when they played in Cincy) and Dickey(we also had some success against him when we played in NY, but hes had 2 one hitters and been mainly lights out) are the top 2 this year. Id also prefer that Cueto get some rest but if he makes it I wouldn't be opposed to see him throw an inning. You could make cases for Gio, Strasburg, and even Chris Capuano(yes I just mentioned Chris Capuano, hes 9-2 with a 2.60 and has more K's than Cueto or even Latos this year.) I just think given the last year as a whole Cueto deserves to make it. The guy has been pretty pretty solid if u ask me, and is the best starter on a first place team.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2012, 04:32 PM
I used to think that was certain. Now I'm not so sure. If his bad play continues, he might pitch himself out of an AS nod.

Agreed.

Joseph
06-26-2012, 05:15 PM
Agreed.

actually I'd be fine if he took a break.

MikeThierry
06-26-2012, 10:19 PM
Cueto has shown that this year he may be the 3rd best pitcher in the NL. Cain(mainly because of the perfect game. I remember we had success against him when they played in Cincy) and Dickey(we also had some success against him when we played in NY, but hes had 2 one hitters and been mainly lights out) are the top 2 this year. Id also prefer that Cueto get some rest but if he makes it I wouldn't be opposed to see him throw an inning. You could make cases for Gio, Strasburg, and even Chris Capuano(yes I just mentioned Chris Capuano, hes 9-2 with a 2.60 and has more K's than Cueto or even Latos this year.) I just think given the last year as a whole Cueto deserves to make it. The guy has been pretty pretty solid if u ask me, and is the best starter on a first place team.


He's been good but that whole gaggle of Nationals pitchers is hard to top and you can't really go wrong with Kershaw.