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View Full Version : You wonder how many careers Dusty has...



brm7675
05-03-2012, 12:11 PM
Either runied or damaged by his inability to play young players who have shown ability but have veterans playing the same positions. Yes Dusty has played Bruce and Stubbs and such, but because there was no other real option better or even close. If given a choice between veteran creaminess and young player....Dusty goes old and you have to wonder what would have happened had Dusty been more hands on warming understanding and worked with young players more. I mean maybe Juan F. wouldn't have come to camp out of shape and such if he felt he had even a small shot at 3rd, but no chance with Rolen on the team.

Right now if I am Todd Frazier I go to Walt and ask for my release, maybe there is another team out there that can see I have talent and can outplay someone who hit's .096, cause right now if Dusty isn't going to play him now he never will.

alett12
05-03-2012, 12:20 PM
I agree that and the bull about who is able to throw out of the pen

R_Webb18
05-03-2012, 01:14 PM
it makes no sense at all to have/play willie h. lets just for some reason he plays a game how do you really bat him 2nd? like are you kidding me? it's not easy to get multi hits in 1 inning so why do you bat heisey / willie 1/2 makes no sense.

smixsell
05-03-2012, 01:20 PM
You forgot to add the abject failure to coach improvement out of those young players who he actually DOES play to the list of charges. Most talented young players actually improve after a few seasons in the bigs, ours tend to get worse. Dusty's hitting philosphy is to go up there hacking (scorning the importance of working walks and working the pitcher) and his coaching philosophy is that no player is accountable for their failures by a spell on the bench. ("we need to get Gomes going," "we need to get Rolen going," "Brandon is embarrassed enough already" about getting picked off second while joking around rith Rollins in the 12th inning of a tie game).

Dusty's days are numbered. I don't think he will last the season. I HOPE he will not last the month.

alett12
05-03-2012, 01:39 PM
Heisey has had some success hitting leadoff so i have no issue there but i dont like harris at all

brm7675
05-03-2012, 04:45 PM
Dusty's days are numbered. I don't think he will last the season. I HOPE he will not last the month.

I doubt he is going anywhere. Bob loves him and unless the Reds fall off and say finish 15-20 games back not only will he survive the season, I could see another 2 year deal this offseason...:thumbdown:

redsfanmia
05-03-2012, 08:08 PM
Dusty is not the only manager to ruin players, Pete Rose ruined Nick Esasky.

Ironman92
05-03-2012, 09:09 PM
Damn you Pete!

texasdave
05-04-2012, 07:37 AM
Some say Pete ruined Mario Soto as well.

lidspinner
05-04-2012, 08:16 AM
I love the theory of Davey Johnson, who says "I'll take the young player every day over the vet, the young lads like to hustle, play hard nosed and have a love for the game that most vets have forgot about".....

I out quotation marks but it might not be word for word but its pretty darn close....Davey is one of the few managers who follow this theory whenever given the chance...he lobbied for 3 young guys out of spring training to make the team, Harper included, but the GM chose the vets over the younger guys....I hope we see a trend more like this in the future.

the younger players have a huger that fans want to see, the same hunger that Pete Rose brought to the diamond each and every night and the same hunger we just dont see anymore due to players being afraid of getting hurt and wanting to save themselves for the long season. I call BS on that, that extra bit of hustle each night might cost you a few bumps and bruises and a few sore muscles, nothing that a requested day off wont cure....I would rather see a vet go all out like Bryce Harper or any other young hungry player and take 1 extra day off a month as opposed to seeing them jog to first on every ground ball and fly ball.....

while I am at it, I am sick and tired of seeing these shortstops and second baseman not dive to stop a ground ball with 2 outs and a guy on 2nd base....they let the ball go to the outfield and make the OF'er try and throw a strike to homeplate and almost get the catcher rolled.....dive and stop that ball, even if you dont get the out at first you will stop the guy at 2nd from scoring.....its something I teach my kids ball teams....Cozart and Phillips are pretty good at taking wider angles to get to a ball or diving to stop even though they might not get the out at 1st, I have seen Brandon let a few go by only to have Jay Bruce try and throw someone out.....I understand that I am nitpicking here but whenever I go watch minor league games, I see them do this all the time, they are hungry and trying to make an impression.....I once seen Asdrubal Cabrera in Buffalo, AAA of the Indians at the time, 08-09 or somewhere close to that time frame, I seen him dive and save the runner from scoring 4 times in one game....each time the runner got stranded at 3rd. you dont find those stats on any site or any sabermetric sheet, but its called hunger and love for the game....

I just wish more managers would see things like this and give these younger players that chance to prove what they can do....they are going to make mistakes that vets dont make, but its a trade off, and one I will take gladly.

rant over.

Jamz
05-04-2012, 08:22 AM
Part of the reason I wish we had Lawrie on this team. That guy is 110% in it every play.

lidspinner
05-04-2012, 08:27 AM
Part of the reason I wish we had Lawrie on this team. That guy is 110% in it every play.

true....its fun to watch that style of baseball....gives me goosebumps watching players give every last bit of effort they have and make a play or stretch a single to a double, its addicting to watch and I would imagine it has to rub off on the guys in the dugout.

alett12
05-04-2012, 10:06 AM
Part of the reason I wish we had Lawrie on this team. That guy is 110% in it every play.

That guy on the reds is Zack Cozart

swaisuc
05-04-2012, 11:11 AM
This complaint would make a lot more sense on a team with good young players who weren't playing. I agree with you completely about playing your good young players, but that's happening.

Stubbs, Bruce, and Cozart all went straight to everyday players. Your only example of a problem is Todd Frazier and it's hardly a given that he's already better than Scott Rolen. I would say somewhere around 30 managers in MLB would be playing Rolen over Frazier. If this is all about 1 spot start for Harris instead Frazier, that's way too picky to me.

Stray
05-04-2012, 11:18 AM
I'd rather see Frazier get more playing time. Cairo isn't a true backup, he's more of a PHer that you give a start to once every week and a half. I don't know how Frazier fits in up here but I hope they find a way.

With Mesoraco the numbers speak for themselves. I saw a tweet where we're 10-4 in Hanigan's starts and 2-8 in Mesoraco's. He can swing the bat and he has a great arm, but he has to catch up on how to handle our pitching staff before he deserves to play more.

But like the guy above me said, we do have a team full of young players playing a lot. As fans a lotta times we get caught up in the idea that the backup is always better than a guy who is in a slump. There's a reason they're backups, and more often than not you see that. Last year it was Heisey, before that it was Janish...yada yada yada.

Jr's Boy
05-04-2012, 01:54 PM
The Cards seem to do well with all their young talent.I gotta hand it to them,they don't wait around and let their young players rot in the minors like the Reds do.A lot of it has to do with management,but when was the last time the Reds really made use of their minor leagues in some form or fashion?Yes I know the team is made up of mostly Reds developed talent,but how long did it take to get them here?Cozart was ready two years ago,and still waited over some veteran, and a soft hitting career minor leaguer.

Stray
05-04-2012, 02:43 PM
The Cards seem to do well with all their young talent.I gotta hand it to them,they don't wait around and let their young players rot in the minors like the Reds do.A lot of it has to do with management,but when was the last time the Reds really made use of their minor leagues in some form or fashion?Yes I know the team is made up of mostly Reds developed talent,but how long did it take to get them here?Cozart was ready two years ago,and still waited over some veteran, and a soft hitting career minor leaguer.

Homer Bailey, Johnny Cueto, Mike Leake, Drew Stubbs, Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, and Chris Heisey? And I'm sure I'm forgetting some. I'm not saying we are always right about when we bring guys up, but come on now. Looking at St. Louis' roster it doesn't really even compare.

Ironman92
05-04-2012, 10:14 PM
Brooks Lawrence ruined my career.