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Dan
05-04-2012, 03:25 PM
With the Nats calling up 19yo Bryce Harper, it got me to wondering who the last teenager to play for the Reds was. Was it Bench? I really can't think of anyone since then, and baseball-reference isn't a help here.

George Anderson
05-04-2012, 03:29 PM
With the Nats calling up 19yo Bryce Harper, it got me to wondering who the last teenager to play for the Reds was. Was it Bench? I really can't think of anyone since then, and baseball-reference isn't a help here.

I think it was Gary Nolan or Don Gullett.

919191
05-04-2012, 03:33 PM
It was Nolan, and then Gullet. I can't come up with any more names. I was thinking Jeff Russell, but no on that one.

Always Red
05-04-2012, 03:35 PM
Rosario Rodriguez, 1989.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1989.shtml

Always Red
05-04-2012, 03:39 PM
Don Gullet, 1970

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1970.shtml

Always Red
05-04-2012, 03:40 PM
Johnny Bench and Gary Nolan, 1967

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1967.shtml

You were all right!

westofyou
05-04-2012, 03:41 PM
Position JB 1967

Always Red
05-04-2012, 03:41 PM
Billy McCool, 1964

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1964.shtml

cumberlandreds
05-04-2012, 03:41 PM
Rosario Rodriguez, 1989.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1989.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1989.shtml)

According to your souce he was actually 20 when he debut for the Reds. His birthday was July 8th and he first appeared for the Reds on September 1.

My guess would be Gullett too.

Spitball
05-04-2012, 03:54 PM
I believe Nolan and Bench formed a teenage battery when Bench was a late season call-up in 1967. I don't know if that has ever happened before or since.

Spitball
05-04-2012, 04:01 PM
Speaking of Gary Nolan, does anyone remember him striking out Willie Mays 4 times in one of (if not his first) starts as an 18 year old?

He pitched almost 230 innings as an 18 year-old.

corkedbat
05-04-2012, 04:08 PM
I believe Nuxy was 16 when he made his first appearance. When back downand then came up permanently.

westofyou
05-04-2012, 04:12 PM
I believe Nuxy was 16 when he made his first appearance. When back downand then came up permanently.

Fifteen, didn't return until 1952

Spitball
05-04-2012, 05:12 PM
This is a little off topic, but Dave Bennett appeared as a teenager for the 1964 Phillies. The "fun fact" on the back of his rookie card stated, "This 19-year-old righthanded curveballer is just 18 years old!"

RedsBaron
05-04-2012, 05:51 PM
Speaking of Gary Nolan, does anyone remember him striking out Willie Mays 4 times in one of (if not his first) starts as an 18 year old?

He pitched almost 230 innings as an 18 year-old.

I remember it well. I thought Nolan should have won the NL Rookie of the YEar award in 1967 instead of Tom Seaver. He turned 19 in May of 1967 and still pitched 226+ innings, fanned 206, went 14-8 and had a 2.58 ERA. Dave Brsitol used him as if he was a 30 year old vet; within a couple of years he had arm woes and his dominating fastball was gone. :(

Hap
05-04-2012, 11:49 PM
This is a little off topic, but Dave Bennett appeared as a teenager for the 1964 Phillies. The "fun fact" on the back of his rookie card stated, "This 19-year-old righthanded curveballer is just 18 years old!"

http://images.checkoutmycards.com/zoom-back/572b7047-ddac-463a-bf23-fed720646487.jpg

westofyou
05-05-2012, 12:08 AM
FYI

Since 1900



CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
MODERN (1900-)
Non P
AGE < 20
AGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria
OPS vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria

AT BATS YEAR AB AGE OPS
1 Doc Hoblitzell 1908 114 19 -.002
2 Vada Pinson 1958 96 19 -.032
3 Johnny Bench 1967 86 19 -.237
T4 Bobby Henrich 1957 10 18 -.298
T4 Eddie Miller 1936 10 19 -.463
6 Wally Post 1949 8 19 -.249
7 Al Silvera 1955 7 19 -.471
8 Cozy Dolan 1909 6 19 -.103
T9 Curt Flood 1957 3 19 .919
T9 Bobby Henrich 1958 3 19 -.759
11 Kenny Hogan 1921 2 18 -.759
T12 Tom Sullivan 1925 1 18 -.787
T12 Jim Bolger 1950 1 18 -.765


Pitchers



CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
MODERN (1900-)

AGE < 20
AGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria
RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria

INNINGS PITCHED YEAR IP AGE RSAA
1 Pete Schneider 1915 276 19 11
2 Gary Nolan 1967 227 19 27
3 Pete Schneider 1914 144 18 2
4 Billy McCool 1964 89 19 12
5 Jean Dubuc 1908 85 19 -3
6 Don Gullett 1970 78 19 15
7 Dick Scott 1901 21 18 -4
8 Marty O'Toole 1908 15 19 0
9 Claude Osteen 1959 8 19 -2
10 Dave Skaugstad 1957 6 17 2
11 Herm Wehmeier 1945 5 18 -5
12 Rosario Rodriguez 1989 4.1 19 0
13 Claude Osteen 1957 4 17 1
14 Ewell Blackwell 1942 3 19 -1
T15 Kent Peterson 1944 1 18 0
T15 Rufe Meadows 1926 1 18 0
T15 Joe Nuxhall 1944 1 15 -5

that's the way the record book notes B/days (real dOB noted in previous post)

PuffyPig
05-05-2012, 12:15 AM
I remember it well. I thought Nolan should have won the NL Rookie of the YEar award in 1967 instead of Tom Seaver. He turned 19 in May of 1967 and still pitched 226+ innings, fanned 206, went 14-8 and had a 2.58 ERA. Dave Brsitol used him as if he was a 30 year old vet; within a couple of years he had arm woes and his dominating fastball was gone. :(

He lost 4 games by the score of 1-0.

757690
05-05-2012, 12:31 AM
I remember it well. I thought Nolan should have won the NL Rookie of the YEar award in 1967 instead of Tom Seaver. He turned 19 in May of 1967 and still pitched 226+ innings, fanned 206, went 14-8 and had a 2.58 ERA. Dave Brsitol used him as if he was a 30 year old vet; within a couple of years he had arm woes and his dominating fastball was gone. :(

He was our casino host at the Mirage back in the 90's. I mentioned I was a Reds fan, and his smile left his face. He said something like, "It wasn't all regrettable, there were some good times too." I imagine he was bitter about being overused and having such a short career, a d just missing out on making the big bucks.

powersackers
05-05-2012, 02:47 AM
He was our casino host at the Mirage back in the 90's. I mentioned I was a Reds fan, and his smile left his face. He said something like, "It wasn't all regrettable, there were some good times too." I imagine he was bitter about being overused and having such a short career, a d just missing out on making the big bucks.

His casino days and disdain for the Reds is referenced here:
http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/dd89241b

Sounds like he's forgiven them. Sounds like he had a right to be upset, but it was a different time.

gilpdawg
05-05-2012, 06:41 AM
He was our casino host at the Mirage back in the 90's. I mentioned I was a Reds fan, and his smile left his face. He said something like, "It wasn't all regrettable, there were some good times too." I imagine he was bitter about being overused and having such a short career, a d just missing out on making the big bucks.

I think about guys like Nolan and Wayne Simpson when I hear old-timers complain about things like pitch counts or innings limits for young guys.

RedsBaron
05-05-2012, 07:31 AM
His casino days and disdain for the Reds is referenced here:
http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/dd89241b

Sounds like he's forgiven them. Sounds like he had a right to be upset, but it was a different time.

I recalled the quote by Larry Jansen. I didn't remember who had said it but I knew someone had early on predicted arm difficulties for Nolan because of his pitching motion.
Perhaps it would not have made any diiference if the Reds had taken better care of their young pitchers in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Pitchers in general do not tend to last long. However I sometimes like to fantasize about a Big Red Machine that throughout the 1970s had a healthy Gary Nolan, Wayne Simpson and Don Gullett.

membengal
05-05-2012, 07:45 AM
His casino days and disdain for the Reds is referenced here:
http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/dd89241b

Sounds like he's forgiven them. Sounds like he had a right to be upset, but it was a different time.

Thank you very much for the link. I didn't know most of that.

DGullett35
05-05-2012, 01:26 PM
April, 10 1970 vs. the Giants. The Reds lost 4-3. Don pitched 1.1 innings gave up a hit and a walk and had 2 SO. He became a starter the year after. At one time he had the career record for winning percentage among pitchers at like a .686. Don was healthy for most all of his time with the Reds. My dad still has the tape of game 7 of the 75 World Series. Don started that game. He tore his rotator cuff in his second year with the Yankees and retired soon after. a career 3.11 ERA nowadays would be Hall of Fame numbers. It's amazing how much better the pitching was back in the day.

RedlegJake
05-05-2012, 03:45 PM
It's amazing how much better the pitching was back in the day.

I had to laugh as "back in the day" I was in my mid-twenties with a wife and three kids. Man sometimes you young'uns make me feel OLD! LOL:D
When I think of "back in the day" it is the Reds of the 40s from whom I've been told a hundred stories by my dad. Not just Derringer and Walters but Junior Thompson whom he claims was almost as good as either of them until an arm injury cut his career short and the war came before he had a chance to return. And Whitey Moore, another very good pitcher who would be better than anyone on the Reds staff except maybe Cueto and Latos, and Elmer Riddle and VanderMeer and Joe Beggs. Now those Reds squads "back in the day" had amazingly good and deep pitching.

Big Klu
05-05-2012, 03:55 PM
I had to laugh as "back in the day" I was in my mid-twenties with a wife and three kids. Man sometimes you young'uns make me feel OLD! LOL:D
When I think of "back in the day" it is the Reds of the 40s from whom I've been told a hundred stories by my dad. Not just Derringer and Walters but Junior Thompson whom he claims was almost as good as either of them until an arm injury cut his career short and the war came before he had a chance to return. And Whitey Moore, another very good pitcher who would be better than anyone on the Reds staff except maybe Cueto and Latos, and Elmer Riddle and VanderMeer and Joe Beggs. Now those Reds squads "back in the day" had amazingly good and deep pitching.

Don't forget Blackwell.

westofyou
05-05-2012, 04:02 PM
I had to laugh as "back in the day" I was in my mid-twenties with a wife and three kids. Man sometimes you young'uns make me feel OLD! LOL:D
When I think of "back in the day" it is the Reds of the 40s from whom I've been told a hundred stories by my dad. Not just Derringer and Walters but Junior Thompson whom he claims was almost as good as either of them until an arm injury cut his career short and the war came before he had a chance to return. And Whitey Moore, another very good pitcher who would be better than anyone on the Reds staff except maybe Cueto and Latos, and Elmer Riddle and VanderMeer and Joe Beggs. Now those Reds squads "back in the day" had amazingly good and deep pitching.

And a horrible offense too, a bevy of 1st base types like Hank Sauer playing in the expansive LF of Crosley... back then the outfielders were called "gardeners" by the older press (who declared back in the day as the Twenties)

westofyou
05-05-2012, 04:03 PM
MLB teens (position) since 1900



MODERN (1900-)
Non P
AGE < 20

AT BATS AB
1 Phil Cavarretta 1068
2 Robin Yount 902
3 Ed Kranepool 699
4 Sibby Sisti 674
5 Mel Ott 658
6 Buddy Lewis 629
7 Bob Kennedy 614
8 Al Kaline 532
9 Cass Michaels 520
10 Rusty Staub 513
11 Ty Cobb 508
12 Ken Griffey Jr. 455
13 Freddy Lindstrom 435
14 Edgar Renteria 431
15 Les Mann 407
16 Tony Conigliaro 404
17 Tommy Brown 376
18 Johnny Lush 369
19 Sherry Magee 364
20 Ted Kazanski 360
21 Cesar Cedeno 355
22 Chubby Dean 342
T23 Bobby Del Greco 341
T23 Mickey Mantle 341
25 Travis Jackson 335
26 Jose Oquendo 328
27 John Knight 325
28 Billy Consolo 307
29 Ed Kirkpatrick 302
30 Ivan Rodriguez 280
31 Wayne Causey 263
32 Merito Acosta 257
33 Bill Mazeroski 255
T34 Frankie Hayes 253
T34 Eddie Ainsmith 253
36 Del Crandall 228
37 Claudell Washington 221
38 Clete Boyer 208
39 Jack Burnett 206
40 Lew Malone 205
T41 Alex Rodriguez 196
T41 Frank O'Rourke 196
43 Adrian Beltre 195
44 Emmett McCann 191
45 Harry Heilmann 182
46 Jimmie Foxx 171
47 Charlie Grimm 163
48 B.J. Upton 159
49 Elbie Fletcher 152
50 Harry Chiti 150
51 Gus Getz 148
52 Bobby Doerr 147
T53 Justin Upton 140
T53 Mike Menosky 140
55 Eddie Miksis 139
56 Johnny Lipon 131
T57 Johnny Hodapp 130
T57 Aurelio Rodriguez 130
T59 Whitey Lockman 129
T59 Dale Coogan 129
61 Eddie Onslow 128
T62 Tony Horton 126
T62 Joe Leonard 126
64 Granny Hamner 125
T65 Danny Murphy 123
T65 Mike Trout 123
67 Charlie Pechous 120
68 Stuffy McInnis 119
69 Val Picinich 118
70 Doc Hoblitzell 114
71 Andruw Jones 106
72 J.W. Porter 104
73 Tim McCarver 101
74 Tex Nelson 99
75 Vada Pinson 96
76 Jim Small 95
77 Harmon Killebrew 93
78 Jerry Buchek 90
79 Fred Merkle 88
80 Johnny Bench 86
81 Joe Cronin 83
82 Jeff Sweeney 82
T83 Lee Walls 80
T83 Gary Sheffield 80
85 Johnny Bassler 79
86 Thomas Healy 77
87 Lou Klimchock 76
88 Ken Henderson 73
T89 Oscar Gamble 71
T89 Joe Gedeon 71
T91 Frankie Gustine 70
T91 Darrell Porter 70
93 Bobby Tolan 69
94 Brooks Robinson 66
95 Johnny Callison 64
96 Ray Schalk 63
97 Joe Cicero 62
T98 Sam Covington 60
T98 Juan Gonzalez 60
T100 Kid Butler 59
T100 Zoilo Versalles 59
T102 Rogers Hornsby 57
T102 Hank Ruszkowski 57
T104 George Brickell 55
T104 Brock Davis 55
T106 Gene Stephens 53
T106 Ron Fairly 53
T106 Dave Duncan 53
109 Ricky Seilheimer 52
110 Jimmy Bloodworth 50
T111 Luis Alvarado 46
T111 Dick Schofield 46
T113 Roger Peckinpaugh 45
T113 Alfredo Griffin 45
T115 Jim Brown 44
T115 Tony LaRussa 44
T115 Earl Clark 44
T118 Alan Trammell 43
T118 Willie Crawford 43
T118 Cecil Travis 43
T121 Bob Bailey 42
T121 Bunny Brief 42
123 Joe Jackson 40
124 Eddie Yost 39
T125 Tom Egan 38
T125 Rod Gilbreath 38
T125 Reno Bertoia 38
T125 George Kelly 38
T125 Charlie Bates 38
T125 Sammy Bohne 38
T125 Mark Mauldin 38
132 Bobby Murcer 37
133 Don Young 35
134 Amos Strunk 34
T135 Nick Koback 33
T135 Jack Calvo 33
T135 Skip Lockwood 33
T138 Joe Smith 32
T138 Herb Hunter 32
T140 Greg Goossen 31
T140 Gil Reyes 31
T142 Joe Schultz 30
T142 Don Hasenmayer 30
T142 Glenn Vaughan 30
145 Carl Sumner 29
T146 Fred Manrique 28
T146 Mickey O'Neil 28
T146 Ken Hubbs 28
T146 Kenny Kuhn 28
T150 Hal Janvrin 27
T150 Jim Fregosi 27
T150 Steve O'Neill 27
T153 Bobby Richardson 26
T153 Clint Hurdle 26
T153 Socks Seibold 26
T153 Sonny Jackson 26
T157 Ed Romero 25
T157 Joe Morgan 25
T157 Wickey McAvoy 25
T160 Tom Carroll 23
T160 Kevin Collins 23
T160 Elmer Valo 23
T163 Les Hennessy 22
T163 Lena Styles 22
T165 Paul Ratliff 21
T165 Shanty Hogan 21
T167 Cy Perkins 20
T167 Karim Garcia 20
T167 Bill Brown 20
T167 Johnny Lucadello 20
T167 Bernie Friberg 20
T172 Dan Porter 19
T172 Ivan Murrell 19
T172 Larry McLean 19
T172 Tris Speaker 19
T172 Charlie Snell 19
T177 Frank Snyder 18
T177 Arthur Hauger 18
T179 Mike Ivie 17
T179 Nelson Mathews 17
T179 Jack Clark 17
T179 Ted Simmons 17
T179 Milt Stock 17
184 Asby Asbjornson 16
T185 Norm Miller 15
T185 Jim Curry 15
T185 Gene Mauch 15
T185 Eddie Collins 15
T189 Tommie Agee 14
T189 Ed Clough 14
T189 Frank Zupo 14
T189 Mike Jorgensen 14
T189 Muddy Ruel 14
T189 Jimmy McMath 14
T195 Bert Adams 13
T195 George Yankowski 13
T195 Clarence Berger 13
T195 Boog Powell 13
T195 Sam File 13
T195 Bobby Henrich 13
T201 Jeff Burroughs 12
T201 Putsy Caballero 12
T201 John Kelleher 12
T201 George Brickley 12
T201 Greg Luzinski 12
T201 Al Lopez 12
T201 Harley Boss 12
T208 Tim Foli 11
T208 Ed Brinkman 11
T208 Hugh Alexander 11
T208 Leo Kavanagh 11
T208 Junior Noboa 11
T208 George Hale 11
T208 George Dickey 11
T215 Alex George 10
T215 Ted Sepkowski 10
T215 Bill Freehan 10
T215 Joe Shannon 10
T215 Eddie Miller 10
T215 Jim Baumer 10
T215 Wayne Belardi 10
T222 Bruno Betzel 9
T222 Brian Milner 9
T222 Johnny Groth 9
T222 Ben Paschal 9
T222 Gene Steinbrenner 9
T222 John Mayberry 9
T222 Hawk Taylor 9
T229 Frank Mills 8
T229 Dave Adlesh 8
T229 Dick Simpson 8
T229 Brian McCall 8
T229 Wally Post 8
T229 Vern Freiburger 8
T235 Bill Southworth 7
T235 Frank Leja 7
T235 Bill Keen 7
T235 Al Silvera 7
T239 Cozy Dolan 6
T239 Cap Peterson 6
T239 Gregg Jefferies 6
T239 Jimmy Smith 6
T239 Sam Crane 6
T239 Andy Etchebarren 6
T239 Rick Dempsey 6
T246 Dusty Baker 5
T246 Ted Tappe 5
T246 Rowland Office 5
T246 George Moriarty 5
T246 Frank Tepedino 5
T246 Jose Cardenal 5
T246 Ken Poulsen 5
T253 Wayne Redmond 4
T253 Gene Ratliff 4
T253 Walt Streuli 4
T253 Milt May 4
T253 Tony Murray 4
T253 Steve Hertz 4
T253 Ray Schmandt 4
T253 Art Rico 4
T253 Bill Leinhauser 4
T253 Joe Kirrene 4
T253 Jerry Moses 4
T253 Curt Flood 4
T253 Ferdie Moore 4
T253 Lou Rosenberg 4
T253 Ed Cermak 4
T268 Jack Heidemann 3
T268 Wilson Betemit 3
T268 Don Rader 3
T268 Bob O'Farrell 3
T268 Red Shannon 3
T268 Bill McCarthy 3
T268 Hack Eibel 3
T268 Nellie Fox 3
T268 Gil Whitehouse 3
T268 John Paciorek 3
T268 Art Bader 3
T279 Joe Hanson 2
T279 Brian Harper 2
T279 Miguel Dilone 2
T279 Mike Loan 2
T279 Ben Rochefort 2
T279 Derrell Griffith 2
T279 Joe Torre 2
T279 Coonie Blank 2
T279 Rowdy Elliott 2
T279 Frank Owens 2
T279 Perry Currin 2
T279 Vern Benson 2
T279 Toots Coyne 2
T279 Gil Hodges 2
T279 Willie Montanez 2
T279 Dick Bartell 2
T279 Kenny Hogan 2
T296 Doc Bass 1
T296 Jim Breazeale 1
T296 Charlie Sands 1
T296 Brian Greer 1
T296 Andy Sullivan 1
T296 George Tomer 1
T296 Howard Freigau 1
T296 Candy Harris 1
T296 Rod Miller 1
T296 Leo Durocher 1
T296 Harry Vahrenhorst 1
T296 George Thomas 1
T296 Hank Greenberg 1
T296 Jim Bolger 1
T296 Bill Buckner 1
T296 Tom Kirk 1
T296 Charlie Bold 1
T296 Roy Jarvis 1
T296 Art Merewether 1
T296 Don Pavletich 1
T296 Bob Aspromonte 1
T296 Jess Cortazzo 1
T296 Ed Sicking 1
T296 Tom Sullivan 1
T296 Roger Marquis 1
T296 John Cavanaugh 1

RedlegJake
05-05-2012, 04:24 PM
And a horrible offense too, a bevy of 1st base types like Hank Sauer playing in the expansive LF of Crosley... back then the outfielders were called "gardeners" by the older press (who declared back in the day as the Twenties)

Yep. And part of that problem was McKechnie and his insistence on the "old" game - single, double, sacrifice, hit and run, while avoiding the big home run man. Lonnie Frey, Harry Craft, Billy Werber, Mike McCormick, Ival Goodman - all were prototypical men for McKechnie. Even his "sluggers" were guys like Lombardi and Buck McCormick who were line drive hitters that used all fields and rarely tried to pull the ball. Sauer, and later big Klu and Post (both drafted in '46) didn't become the slugging offense the Reds sought until after McKechnie left. In fact Sauer was used very little after they acquired him because McKechnie despised his style of hitting. It weasn't until after the War and McKechnie had left that Hank got a full time shot. Dad told me McKechnie was a great manager of pitching and defense - maybe the greatest - but was so old fashioned about offense that it was often joked about. "The Reds can pitch and catch but they can't hit a lick with Deacon running things!" Dad told me that Buck McCormick could have hit 40 homers a year if he'd pulled the ball and probably Lombardi, too, because they were both enormously strong but pull hitters didn't play for McKechnie.

westofyou
05-05-2012, 04:28 PM
Yep. And part of that problem was McKechnie and his insistence on the "old" game - single, double, sacrifice, hit and run, while avoiding the big home run man. Lonnie Frey, Harry Craft, Billy Werber, Mike McCormick, Ival Goodman - all were prototypical men for McKechnie. Even his "sluggers" were guys like Lombardi and Buck McCormick who were line drive hitters that used all fields and rarely tried to pull the ball. Sauer, and later big Klu and Post (both drafted in '46) didn't become the slugging offense the Reds sought until after McKechnie left. In fact Sauer was used very little after they acquired him because McKechnie despised his style of hitting. It weasn't until after the War and McKechnie had left that Hank got a full time shot. Dad told me McKechnie was a great manager of pitching and defense - maybe the greatest - but was so old fashioned about offense that it was often joked about. "The Reds can pitch and catch but they can't hit a lick with Deacon running things!" Dad told me that Buck McCormick could have hit 40 homers a year if he'd pulled the ball and probably Lombardi, too, because they were both enormously strong but pull hitters didn't play for McKechnie.

Walters tried to get Sauer to not pull the ball, then when he got blisters from a different approach he ceased playing him, really peeved him off even years later.

dougdirt
05-05-2012, 04:43 PM
April, 10 1970 vs. the Giants. The Reds lost 4-3. Don pitched 1.1 innings gave up a hit and a walk and had 2 SO. He became a starter the year after. At one time he had the career record for winning percentage among pitchers at like a .686. Don was healthy for most all of his time with the Reds. My dad still has the tape of game 7 of the 75 World Series. Don started that game. He tore his rotator cuff in his second year with the Yankees and retired soon after. a career 3.11 ERA nowadays would be Hall of Fame numbers. It's amazing how much better the pitching was back in the day.
The pitching isn't close to being better, the hitting was just so much worse.

Always Red
05-05-2012, 04:47 PM
Tony LaRussa had such a nondescript playing career; I find it very interesting and kind of weird that he got so many at bats (44 out of his career total of 176) as an 18 year old middle infielder for the Kansas City A's. I didn't realize he was a bonus baby.

westofyou
05-05-2012, 06:46 PM
The pitching isn't close to being better, the hitting was just so much worse.The parks were bigger and the grass was plastic, the game was faster, bat on the ball baseball moved faster and created a different type of tension than today's three outcomes results and matchup mania

Neither is worse than the other, just different

westofyou
05-05-2012, 10:26 PM
Pitchers



CAREER
MODERN (1900-)

AGE < 20

INNINGS PITCHED IP
1 Bob Feller 489
2 Pete Schneider 420
3 Larry Dierker 343
4 Chief Bender 270
5 Mike McCormick 260
6 Gary Nolan 227
T7 Wally Bunker 218
T7 Dwight Gooden 218
9 David Clyde 210
10 Joe Wood 183.1
11 Frank Shellenback 183
12 Curt Simmons 179
13 Earl Hamilton 177
14 Chuck Stobbs 168
15 Bert Blyleven 164
16 Ray Sadecki 157
T17 Ralph Branca 155
T17 Bill Bailey 155
19 Rube Bressler 147.2
T20 Milt Pappas 144
T20 Art Houtteman 144
22 Jim Waugh 142
T23 Hal Newhouser 138
T23 Jim Brillheart 138
25 Jack Bentley 136.1
26 Catfish Hunter 133
27 Bob Miller 131
28 Dick Brodowski 115
29 Walter Johnson 110.1
30 Waite Hoyt 106
31 Johnny Antonelli 100
32 Don Drysdale 99
33 Jim St.Vrain 95
34 Sam McDowell 94
35 Jim Palmer 92
36 Mike Morgan 89.2
T37 Billy McCool 89
T37 Von McDaniel 89
39 Joe Moeller 86
T40 Fred Hutchinson 85
T40 Jean Dubuc 85
42 Felix Hernandez 84.1
43 Cal McLish 84
44 Herb Pennock 83.1
45 John Raleigh 81
46 Don Gullett 78
47 Joe Engel 75
48 Randy Gumpert 74
49 Harry Harper 69.2
T50 Rick Wise 69
T50 Mike McQueen 69
T50 Pat Simmons 69
T53 Josh Billings 67
T53 Hank Johnson 67
T55 Mel Harder 66.2
T55 Bud Davis 66.2
57 Carl Scheib 64
58 Jose Rijo 62.1
59 Stan Baumgartner 60
60 Johnny Lush 59.2
61 Walt Masterson 58
62 Chris Zachary 57
T63 Lew Krausse 56
T63 Ed Baecht 56
65 Andy Hansen 53
66 George Ferguson 52
67 Terry Forster 49.2
T68 Joey Jay 47
T68 Carmen Hill 47
T70 Roy Witherup 46
T70 Bruce Robbins 46
72 Rex Barney 45
T73 Oscar Tuero 44
T73 Dick Calmus 44
75 Jim Derrington 43
T76 Sandy Koufax 42
T76 Vida Blue 42
78 Harry Kane 41
T79 Jim Bethke 40
T79 George Dumont 40
81 Bunny Hearn 39
82 Walter Anderson 38.2
T83 Jerry Walker 38
T83 Lefty Weinert 38
85 Edwin Nunez 35.1
86 Charlie Wheatley 35
87 Larry Christenson 34.1
88 Christy Mathewson 33.2
89 Harley Dillinger 33.1
90 Rick Ankiel 33
T91 Pol Perritt 31
T91 Don Buschhorn 31
93 Jack Salveson 30.2
T94 Andy Coakley 27
T94 Bill Koski 27
T94 Joe Coleman 27
97 Frank Tanana 26.1
98 Charlie Bicknell 26
99 John Bogart 24
T100 Mickey McDermott 23
T100 Babe Ruth 23
T100 Dave Boswell 23
T100 Willie Mitchell 23
T104 Edwin Jackson 22
T104 Chick Evans 22
T104 Bart Johnson 22
T104 Clyde Goodwin 22
108 Bill Pierson 21.2
T109 Reese Diggs 21
T109 Denny McLain 21
T109 Dick Scott 21
T109 Andy Lapihuska 21
T113 Early Wynn 20
T113 Gil Blanco 20
T115 Wilbur Good 19
T115 George Eyrich 19
T115 Lindy McDaniel 19
T118 John Wisner 18.2
T118 Andy Hassler 18.2
120 Virgil Cheeves 18
121 Fernando Valenzuela 17.2
122 Ted Odenwald 17.1
T123 Blue Moon Odom 17
T123 Carlos Pascual 17
T123 Paul Strand 17
T126 Bill Bell 16
T126 Ernie Groth 16
T126 George Lauzerique 16
T126 Harry Kelley 16
T130 Rogers McKee 15
T130 Marty O'Toole 15
T130 Bob Moose 15
133 Red Swanson 14
134 Walt Johnson 13.2
T135 Ron Moeller 13
T135 Homer Blankenship 13
T135 Jim Shaw 13
T135 Al Stanek 13
T135 Jack Jenkins 13
T135 Wilbur Wood 13
T141 Mike Garman 12
T141 Jud McLaughlin 12
T141 Claude Osteen 12
T141 Ed Clough 12
145 Bernie Duffy 11.1
T146 Matt Riley 11
T146 Frank Scanlan 11
T146 Lew Krausse 11
149 Edwin Correa 10.1
T150 Madison Bumgarner 10
T150 Lou Bevil 10
T150 Mike Adamson 10
T150 Henry Mathewson 10
T150 Lloyd Allen 10
T150 Bob Barthelson 10
T150 Billy Pierce 10
157 Balor Moore 9.2
T158 Red Shea 9
T158 Ed Keegan 9
T158 Bob Miller 9
T158 Pat Hynes 9
T158 Mike Lee 9
T158 Lefty Russell 9
T158 Dave McNally 9
T158 Rube Kroh 9
T158 Jack Rowan 9
T158 Glenn Liebhardt 9
168 Neal Brady 8.2
169 Kevin Kobel 8.1
T170 Vic Keen 8
T170 Elmer Burkart 8
T170 Tad Quinn 8
T170 Joe Bush 8
T170 Bud Black 8
T170 Bert Maxwell 8
T170 Dave Cole 8
177 Britt Burns 7.2
T178 Mark Davis 7
T178 Aurelio Monteagudo 7
T178 Charlie Vaughan 7
T178 Archie Wise 7
T178 Jim Manning 7
T178 Chris Haughey 7
T178 Santiago Guzman 7
T185 Jumbo Brown 6
T185 Marcelino Lopez 6
T185 Dave Skeels 6
T185 Hank Ritter 6
T185 John Edelman 6
T185 Lew Moren 6
T185 Gary Dotter 6
T185 Armando Roche 6
T185 Joe Coleman 6
T185 Bob Brown 6
T185 Tom Clyde 6
T185 Jay Franklin 6
T185 Dave Skaugstad 6
T185 Roy Heiser 6
199 Rich Garces 5.2
T200 Fred Heimach 5
T200 Harry Eisenstat 5
T200 Clarence Fieber 5
T200 Stover McIlwain 5
T200 Nestor Chavez 5
T200 Bud Swartz 5
T200 Rick James 5
T200 Herm Wehmeier 5
T200 Lefty Willis 5
T200 Lou Lombardo 5
T200 Buzz Dozier 5
T200 Mike Hedlund 5
T200 Eric Erickson 5
T213 Bill Hall 4.2
T213 Todd Van Poppel 4.2
T213 Tim Conroy 4.2
216 Rosario Rodriguez 4.1
T217 Bob Sprout 4
T217 Ken Holtzman 4
T217 Pete Rambo 4
T217 Ron Bryant 4
T217 Johnny Welch 4
T217 Bob James 4
T217 Walt Ripley 4
T217 Fred Norman 4
T225 Dick Conger 3
T225 Al Mamaux 3
T225 Nolan Ryan 3
T225 Flame Delhi 3
T225 Dave Bakenhaster 3
T225 Jay Dahl 3
T225 Ewell Blackwell 3
T225 Erv Palica 3
T225 Mike DeGerick 3
T225 Wade Blasingame 3
T225 Charlie Osgood 3
T225 Ray Martin 3
T225 Bobby Darwin 3
T225 Claude Crocker 3
T225 Hilly Flitcraft 3
T225 Paul Pettit 3
T225 Roy Wise 3
T225 Bill Bartley 3
T243 Tom Flanigan 2
T243 Mike Jurewicz 2
T243 Roger Miller 2
T243 Jerry Conway 2
T243 Charlie Hartman 2
T243 Dick Ellsworth 2
T243 Fred Worden 2
T243 Gus Keriazakos 2
T243 Jerry Stephenson 2
T243 Dave Hill 2
T243 Ed Corey 2
T243 Roy Walker 2
T243 Ken Brett 2
T243 Dutch Henry 2
T243 Stan Rees 2
T243 Jim Roland 2
T259 George Craig 1.2
T259 Uel Eubanks 1.2
T259 Clay Roe 1.2
T262 Joe Nuxhall 1
T262 Jake Hehl 1
T262 Paul Schreiber 1
T262 George Werley 1
T262 Edgar Barnhart 1
T262 Rufe Meadows 1
T262 Kent Peterson 1
T262 Joe Ogrodowski 1
T262 Dave Bennett 1
T262 Harry MacPherson 1
T262 Andy Varga 1
T262 Wes Ferrell 1
T262 Boom-Boom Beck 1
T275 Pembroke Finlayson 0.1
T275 Joe Gedeon 0.1

dougdirt
05-05-2012, 11:32 PM
The parks were bigger and the grass was plastic, the game was faster, bat on the ball baseball moved faster and created a different type of tension than today's three outcomes results and matchup mania

Neither is worse than the other, just different

The hitting is worse. There were easy outs all over line ups 'back then'. Part of it may have been due to the larger parks, but a lot of it had to do with the skills of the players.

DGullett35
05-06-2012, 11:30 AM
The hitting is worse. There were easy outs all over line ups 'back then'. Part of it may have been due to the larger parks, but a lot of it had to do with the skills of the players.



I consider any year before 1986 as "back then" or "back in the day";)