Trade Targets

[blumj]

Funny, I don't know what the Red Sox plan to do with him when they start getting OFs off the DL, but I was just thinking yesterday that Daniel Nava might be an okay fit for the Reds if they can't come up with a more complete player. He's just a really tough out.

[RedlegJake]

VM, you and I are evidently thinking alike. This team has power. How about a player or two who don't strike out every other at bat, who get on base at a high clip, and work their at bats? Regardless of their power. In fact, given the market a couple Hanigan like guys to fill in and PH and platoon with a couple of these free swingers would be welcome and might help balance this offense while being affordable. Not every player on a team has to be a swing from the heels hands on the bat knob type of hitter which the Reds seem to adore.

[PuffyPig]

VM, you and I are evidently thinking alike.

That can't be good......:lol::lol::lol:

[mth123]

Over the last 2 years, Robertson has been much better vs. LHP than RHP. .291/.358/.372/.730 in 491 PAs against RHP with a 13.8% K Rate. Against LHP he's gone .311/.436/.467/.903 in 223 PAs with a 5.4% K Rate. I like the idea, but I don't think this guy is the target. I'm guessing a jump to the big leagues will drop this guy's success rate against RHP to the point where he won't be much better than the guys already here (most of whom have OBP's hovering between .290 and .310) but he won't have the occassional HR power to at least provide some production.

The Reds are fine against LHP. They need guys who can get on base against RHP who can share the spots with the lefty killers already on the roster. They should be able to get a couple of those who've shown the ability to do that at the major league level without weakening the team.

[Kc61]

Cubs have now lost 12 straight. Good time to trade a couple of prospects for DeJesus.

Even at four million per, makes no sense for Cubs to pay the price, trade them Didi and another kid.

Lefty LF with a high OBP against righties, not a huge contract, fits so well. As others have said in this thread.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I get that Youk is a Cincy boy and all, but with his age and "old" body, I say no thank you.

[corkedbat]

My top 20 Trade Targets (not neccessarily in order):

Josh Hamilton (TEX) - EDINSON FREAKIN' VOLQUEZ!?!?!?!?! Really!?!?!?!?!?1?!
Giancarlo Stanton (MIA) - get the pipe dreams out of the way first
Nick Swisher (NYY) - One of my favorite targets to put between Votto/Bruce. Doubt the Yanks deal him but could the Reds afford him as a FA after the season?
Josh Willingham (MIN) - just got him and one of the few things going right for the Twinkies, but still another favorite. Youngsters might swing it, but doubtful
Mark Trumbo (LAA) - Another pipedream, but I'd love to land him
Carlos Quinton (SD) - new to SD, but the right prospects could tempt them
Chase Headley (SD) - he an Quinton would be a nice combo, but probably for too many young'uns
Melky Cabrerra (SF) - high OBP and some power - could do worse
Alex Graham (KC) - Love his vesatility, but KC homeboy so probably not happening
Shane Victorino (PHI) - unlikely the Phils dump him but would be a huge sparkplug (even as a rental)
Seth Smith (OAK) - a nice platoon mate for Heisey or Ludwig
Kevin Youkilis (BOS) - long in the tooth but a return to Cincy could give him a dead-cat bounce
Logan Morrison (MIA) - poor man's Stanton, but more realistic
Shin-Soo Choo (CLE) - has always been an OBP machine with some power
David Murphy (TEX) - not gonna make us forget JoshH, but decent OnBase skills and some power
David DeJesus (CHC) - much like Choo without as much power. I should like him more, but I don't
Billy Gardner (NYY) - don't know why I like him more than DeJesus, but I do
Brice Brentz (AA-BOS) - probably not much help this year but could fill LF for a long time to come once he makes the bigs
Adam Lind (TOR) - out of favor up north - could a change of scenery help?
Travis Witherspoon - (A+ - LAA) - only High A, but tons of talent and tons of tools - appeals to the leather pants that lurk in all of us

[RedlegJake]

Alex Graham?

I wonder if Melky could really be a possibility? Walt's got no history with the Giants that I remember. (GMs have a marked tendency to deal with teams they've dealt with before so I always add a small check next to possibilities where a history exists). DeJesus would be nice but I wonder what the Cubs would try to pry away from us? I'd imagine the Twins aren't tempted to deal Willingham yet but he'd be my most ideal of the realistic targets. If the Phils are really out of things by the deadline I wonder if they'd deal Victorino for a couple prospects? Not likely, or not likely the Reds could outbid competitors for his services - not a lot on the farm to offer and I wouldn't want to give up a starting pitcher for a rental. The pipedream would be getting Victorino AND Willingham, one to leadoff, the other to hit cleanup. I don't know where to put Stubbs, though.

[Tom Servo]

Alex Graham?

I think he invented the telephone, could be a decent addition.

[Big Klu]

Daniel Robertson, San Diego's AAA Ofer, would look good and makes minimum, rarely K's, high OBP, but you have to be willing to think out of the box. The guy is flat out an on base machine. Gap power. He's a little guy at 5-9 ish but has hit at every level but unfortunately he's a left fielder. That's the knock, The ONLY knock I hear from anyone. Yeah well he plays left and he can't hit for power. If only he played 2nd. Or Center. The guy OBP's .400 or near it every year. He rarely strikes out. He runs well. The Reds have above average power in center and at second, good power at short, and with Mes, at catcher. Great power with Bruce in right and with Joey at first. Sure as the devil they could afford to lose power in left to have a guy OBP'ing .400 at the top of the lineup! And I think you could get Robertson for a song.

They'll never do it. No one would. Too fixated on that gotta hit for power to play left thing. Sigh. Give me the old days of Gwynn and Pete playing left and baseball rats counting for something.


Tony Gwynn played RF, but that doesn't change your point.

[Kc61]

I suggested Melky on the first page of this thread. But he's having a very good year, the Giants are over .500, they have no reason to deal him unless the return is quite large.

Some of the suggestions involve AAA prospects or unproven guys. If Walt pulls the trigger, it will be a deal for 2012, likely a veteran, with the OTHER team getting youth in return. Josh Willingham? Has a .930 OPS, as bad as Twins are, it would require a big return to get him. Not realistic IMO. Headley? Possible, I guess, but the Pads don't have much offense, they probably would keep him at least until the deadline -- can't see why they would trade him right now.

Right now, DeJesus seems like a good choice. The Cubs are one of the few teams that would already want to rebuild, scrap veterans, get more kids, even though it is only late May. The Cubs are strictly rebuilding. DeJesus fits the Reds' need and is having a good year, good lefty OBP, although without much power.

I could see the A's giving up on Seth Smith early. Smith has a low BA, but a good OBP, Reds conceivably could get him without giving up a king's ransom. He might do better back in the NL, might be a good idea for the Reds if the A's regret acquiring him.

Youklis also would seem an early possibility given the Red Sox' needs, although I don't see the Bosox dumping him without a real return.

I think DeJesus, Youk, Smith would all be reasonable targets if the Reds want to strike with a deal now, with the Cubs perhaps most likely to deal this early in the season.

[mth123]

I suggested Melky on the first page of this thread. But he's having a very good year, the Giants are over .500, they have no reason to deal him unless the return is quite large.

Some of the suggestions involve AAA prospects or unproven guys. If Walt pulls the trigger, it will be a deal for 2012, likely a veteran, with the OTHER team getting youth in return. Josh Willingham? Has a .930 OPS, as bad as Twins are, it would require a big return to get him. Not realistic IMO. Headley? Possible, I guess, but the Pads don't have much offense, they probably would keep him at least until the deadline -- can't see why they would trade him right now.

Right now, DeJesus seems like a good choice. The Cubs are one of the few teams that would already want to rebuild, scrap veterans, get more kids, even though it is only late May. The Cubs are strictly rebuilding. DeJesus fits the Reds' need and is having a good year, good lefty OBP, although without much power.

I could see the A's giving up on Seth Smith early. Smith has a low BA, but a good OBP, Reds conceivably could get him without giving up a king's ransom. He might do better back in the NL, might be a good idea for the Reds if the A's regret acquiring him.

Youklis also would seem an early possibility given the Red Sox' needs, although I don't see the Bosox dumping him without a real return.

I think DeJesus, Youk, Smith would all be reasonable targets if the Reds want to strike with a deal now, with the Cubs perhaps most likely to deal this early in the season.

With what little the Reds have to deal, Seth Smith (2 more games until Manny's suspension is over), David Dejesus (Cubs already dealt Marlon Byrd so they may be ready to deal now), Will Venable and others of that platoon lefty type are probably the most realistic. Willingham would be awesome, but with power down, some team with actual impact prospects would probably outbid the Reds. Maybe a Heisey, Hamilton, Corcino package would get him. but that's leaves us at the bottom as farm systems go and I don't know if the Reds can fit his $7 Million for 2013 and 2014 in the budget with the Votto and Phillips deals. The Reds could get most of the benefits by going a level or two down (Didi, Sulbaran, LaMarre, etc) and get the platoon player who fills the exact need and doesn't create a probable purging of others (Bailey? Leake?) after the season to save some cash.

[Vottomatic]

I suggested Melky on the first page of this thread. But he's having a very good year, the Giants are over .500, they have no reason to deal him unless the return is quite large.

Some of the suggestions involve AAA prospects or unproven guys. If Walt pulls the trigger, it will be a deal for 2012, likely a veteran, with the OTHER team getting youth in return. Josh Willingham? Has a .930 OPS, as bad as Twins are, it would require a big return to get him. Not realistic IMO. Headley? Possible, I guess, but the Pads don't have much offense, they probably would keep him at least until the deadline -- can't see why they would trade him right now.

Right now, DeJesus seems like a good choice. The Cubs are one of the few teams that would already want to rebuild, scrap veterans, get more kids, even though it is only late May. The Cubs are strictly rebuilding. DeJesus fits the Reds' need and is having a good year, good lefty OBP, although without much power.

I could see the A's giving up on Seth Smith early. Smith has a low BA, but a good OBP, Reds conceivably could get him without giving up a king's ransom. He might do better back in the NL, might be a good idea for the Reds if the A's regret acquiring him.

Youklis also would seem an early possibility given the Red Sox' needs, although I don't see the Bosox dumping him without a real return.

I think DeJesus, Youk, Smith would all be reasonable targets if the Reds want to strike with a deal now, with the Cubs perhaps most likely to deal this early in the season.

Yeah, I'm liking the guys with high OBP.

Melky and DeJesus are good targets.

There's another guy on Oakland with good numbers, can't think of his name. Beane always willing to deal for the right return. I'll go look him up and see who I'm trying to remember. I have Halfheimers, not Allzheimers yet.

[Vottomatic]

Yeah, I'm liking the guys with high OBP.

Melky and DeJesus are good targets.

There's another guy on Oakland with good numbers, can't think of his name. Beane always willing to deal for the right return. I'll go look him up and see who I'm trying to remember. I have Halfheimers, not Allzheimers yet.

25 year old, switchhitting Josh Reddick. 13 HR's/26 rbi. .271 average. .873 OPS. Bounced around with Boston for a few years.

[mth123]

25 year old, switchhitting Josh Reddick. 13 HR's/26 rbi. .271 average. .873 OPS. Bounced around with Boston for a few years.

You'd have to wreck the team to get him. Seth Smith is the guy to get on the A's (if they are willing to deal him when Manny returns and takes his PAs). But, if you can get him for spare parts, sure.

[CesarGeronimo]

This has probably been discussed in this thread, although I didn't see it with a quick perusal. I'm wondering what the Reds could get for Ryan Hanigan in a sell high move with his current .309 BA and .375 OBP. Thoughts? I really like Hanigan but he seems like the Reds' only high-quality position player that they could deal and still have good player remaining at that position.

[blumj]

Reddick's not a switchhitter, BTW, LH only.

[westofyou]

http://baseballmusings.com/?p=84290



The biggest surprise player to me is Melky Cabrera. I really thought this was a another bad Brian Sabean move, buying a player high. It turns out it’s been one of his better moves, giving up Jonathan Sanchez for someone who might end up with 200 hits. I thought for sure Melky would regress back to his pre-Royals ways, but despite playing in a tough park for hitters and in a division with plenty of good pitching, Cabrera has thrived. Even if Melky regresses to his career .281 BA for the rest of the season, he’d still hit .307.

[Ghosts of 1990]

Watch Walt go out and get Willie Bloomquist again.

[Vottomatic]

Reddick's not a switchhitter, BTW, LH only.

Well the site I looked at for his stats had him listed wrong.

[corkedbat]

I doubt Minnesota would do it, but I'd be willing to offer them Stubbs, Heisey, Leake and either their choice of one of Simon, Arredondo, Ondrusek or Hoover or any player in the Reds minor league system (maybe both) for Josh Willingham and Denard Spann.

New Lineup:

8 Spann
2 Hannigan
3 Votto
7 Willingham
9 Bruce
4 Phillips
5 Frazier
6 Cozart

Dusty would probably not bat BP that low, so he'd probably hit 2nd. If he continues to show strong onbase skills, I'd give HRod a shot at 3B and the second spot in the lineup next spring.

[RedlegJake]

Minnesota would be crazy NOT to do it, imo. I'd be squirming about it, whether that was a big overpay or not but it does solve both leadoff and cleanup in one fell swoop. The deal weakens the pitching, maybe too much but it definitely makes the offense much better.

[reds44]

I doubt Minnesota would do it, but I'd be willing to offer them Stubbs, Heisey, Leake and either their choice of one of Simon, Arredondo, Ondrusek or Hoover or any player in the Reds minor league system (maybe both) for Josh Willingham and Denard Spann.

New Lineup:

8 Spann
2 Hannigan
3 Votto
7 Willingham
9 Bruce
4 Phillips
5 Frazier
6 Cozart

Dusty would probably not bat BP that low, so he'd probably hit 2nd. If he continues to show strong onbase skills, I'd give HRod a shot at 3B and the second spot in the lineup next spring.
No.

[bellhead]

No.

I think you get Youklis and gamble he can hit in the 4 hole..

Move Hannigan to lead off which solves this problem Philips to 2nd..

Hannigan
Philiphs
Votto
Kevin Y...
Bruce...
Cozart
Frazier
Stubbs

[Vottomatic]

I doubt Minnesota would do it, but I'd be willing to offer them Stubbs, Heisey, Leake and either their choice of one of Simon, Arredondo, Ondrusek or Hoover or any player in the Reds minor league system (maybe both) for Josh Willingham and Denard Spann.

New Lineup:

8 Spann
2 Hannigan
3 Votto
7 Willingham
9 Bruce
4 Phillips
5 Frazier
6 Cozart

Dusty would probably not bat BP that low, so he'd probably hit 2nd. If he continues to show strong onbase skills, I'd give HRod a shot at 3B and the second spot in the lineup next spring.

I think it's overpaying.

I'd try and push Ludwich off on them. My offer would be......

Choice of Heisey or Stubbs, Ludwick for salary reasons, Leake, Neftali Soto (future DH).

Minnesota takes on Ludwick so Reds can afford Willingham. They acquire a better and cost efficient starting pitcher in Leake, a CFer (Heisey or Stubbs) to replace Span, Ludwick to play LF in replacement of Willingham and he's only signed for this year, and a triple AAA prospect who has had success prior to this season, has power and has no position which makes him a DH most likely.

If they choose Heisey, Span plays LF. If they choose Stubbs, Span plays CF.

Hoover takes over Leake's spot in the Reds rotation. Reds bring up Donnie Joseph from double AA (yes double AA) to replace Hoover in the bullpen. If Hoover doesn't work out as a starter, bring up Francis.

It solves the leadoff and cleanup spots. Gets higher OBP guys in the lineup. Frazier becomes the backup LFer too with Ludwick and either Stubbs/Heisey gone.

Edit: And if the Reds made this trade now while in first place, fans would be upset, even though the offense other than hitting HR's is stagnant.

[CySeymour]

I doubt Minnesota would do it, but I'd be willing to offer them Stubbs, Heisey, Leake and either their choice of one of Simon, Arredondo, Ondrusek or Hoover or any player in the Reds minor league system (maybe both) for Josh Willingham and Denard Spann.

I'd vote no to that. Spann really isn't an upgrade to Stubbs. Willingham though is a offensive upgrade to LF, but you really weaken the rotation and the bullpen.

[WildcatFan]

I can't remember seeing his name on here, but what about going after Nick Swisher? The Yankees need pitching help badly, Brett Gardner should be coming off the DL in the next few days, and Swisher is in his option year. He's had a bit of a rough start, but he's a career high OPS guy and bats left handed.

What about Bailey, Ondrusek, and Ludwick for Swisher?

/commence berating

[RedlegJake]

Wow. I don't like Swisher that much. A solid starter, a top notch reliever and well uh a guy, for Swisher? Again - it weakens the pitching a lot which is why the Reds are in first place. If Leake subbed for Bailey & Corcino or Joseph could sub in that deal for Ondrusek I'd like it better.

[WildcatFan]

Wow. I don't like Swisher that much. A solid starter, a top notch reliever and well uh a guy, for Swisher? Again - it weakens the pitching a lot which is why the Reds are in first place. If Leake subbed for Bailey & Corcino or Joseph could sub in that deal for Ondrusek I'd like it better.

The Reds are in first place because of their pitching, yes, but they could be World Series contenders if their offense could come close to matching it. Francis would slide into Bailey's spot (or Leake's, if the Yankees would do it, that's a fair point), which would be a downgrade, but not a huge one. I love the bullpen, but one reliever doesn't mess up the whole operation. For NY to deal Swish, it's gonna take one of your best relievers. Their pen is a mess. Swisher gives you that high OBP and left handed bat the team so sorely needs. To upgrade the team, you'll have to make a sacrifice somewhere, and the team has many more toys to play with on the pitching side.

[RedlegJake]

The Reds are in first place because of their pitching, yes, but they could be World Series contenders if their offense could come close to matching it. Francis would slide into Bailey's spot (or Leake's, if the Yankees would do it, that's a fair point), which would be a downgrade, but not a huge one. I love the bullpen, but one reliever doesn't mess up the whole operation. For NY to deal Swish, it's gonna take one of your best relievers. Their pen is a mess. Swisher gives you that high OBP and left handed bat the team so sorely needs. To upgrade the team, you'll have to make a sacrifice somewhere, and the team has many more toys to play with on the pitching side.

You might get the deal done with Ondrusek, Joseph and Heisey. Heisey gives them a backup for Gardner, Joseph is just about ready and lefty and Ondrusek is proven and righty. Addresses a dual need for their pen and sends them a quality backup for Gardner. You can always upgrade the deal if they don't bite on that.

[Sabo Fan]

I think we're looking at some less exciting moves in the coming months than what some have been tossing out there. I love to make a splash as much as the next guy (I've tossed out the idea of getting David Wright and Adam Jones in the past) but I also realize that it's not easy to make trades in this league and that the Reds have very few top-shelf prospects to deal right now.

Having said that I think there are some moves to be made, and I think once a determination is made on what Rolen's status is for the rest of the year the dominoes will start to fall. Youkilis makes some sense if Rolen is in fact done, and I think I'd offer Ludwick and Arrendondo for Youk and a AA lottery ticket-type. It's not sexy and I'd much prefer to find a longer term solution for 3B but sometimes you have to make incremental improvements rather than giant leaps. I think Youkilis has another 18 months of solid baseball in him and a move to the NL Central has done Alfredo Simon wonders, why can't it help Youk too?

As they fall farther into oblivion, the Padres would seem to be sellers and I do like the idea of inquiring on Headley and even Quentin. The problem is that the Pads likely got everything they wanted in the Latos deal and would probably rather go somewhere else instead of taking on the Reds second-tier minor league prospects. Plus I expect the price to be driven up by other clubs, supply and demand and all that.

DeJesus is intriguing to me and I wonder what the Cubbies would want for him. They just brought him in this offseason though so those types of guys aren't traded all that often. I'd keep checking in on his availability though.

My minor move is to go get Ryan Doumit from a Twins team that is sinking fast. He can be a nice pinch hitter, play a little corner OF now and then, spell Votto every so often (no more Cairo at 1B, please) and be the third catcher. Oh, and I'd also see just how frustrated they are with Francisco Liriano. I love me some buy-low guys and he's just about as low as you can get right now.

[reds44]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/19216063/newlook-market-at-mlb-trade-deadline-loaded-with-pitching

8. Carlos Quentin, OF, Padres: He was counted on to be a middle-of-the-order presence for the Padres, but he could just do it for someone else now that he's back. Off to an incredibly hot start since his return from the disabled list, he has six extra-base hits and a 2.226 OPS through three games.

9. Kevin Youkilis, IF, Red Sox: His presence is causing first baseman extraordinaire Adrian Gonzalez to play the outfield. "This is only a temporary solution," one Red Sox person said. Could Youk be temporary in Boston?

15. Alfonso Soriano, OF, Cubs: Seven home runs in his past 15 games give the Cubs an outside shot to deal him, but they would still have to pay almost all of his exorbitant $18 million annual salary through 2014. The guess is the Cubs could save 20 cents on the dollar ... if they're very lucky.

21. David DeJesus, OF, Cubs: He's a solid player who has come back to form with a .379 on-base percentage (but don't let him steal, he's 0 for 4). He may not be a part of the Cubs' future since they will eventually need outfield spots for Brett Jackson and possibly even Bryan LaHair (assuming Anthony Rizzo is called up to play first base, probably around June 23 when his free agency could be delayed a year).

28. Jason Giambi, PH-1B, Rockies: He can still pop once every once in awhile, he walks a lot (.440 on-base percentage) and the $1 million salary isn't exactly onerous.

[Johnny Footstool]

Epstein said today that pretty much everyone is available. The Reds could certainly use DeJesus, and he would probably be in the right price range. Castro is available for "two immediate impact prospects," which I assume would mean Bryce Harper/Mike Trout types. No other bats are really interesting to me. Man, that lineup is terrible.

Garza and probably Dempster will be too costly for the Reds.

Marmol seems like a mess.

[reds44]

I'd take Soriano for free.

[Tom Servo]

I wasn't previously crazy about it, but if DeJesus could be had at a reasonable price he would immediately improve the leadoff spot and would mean less at-bats for Ludwick. Plus solid D.

[757690]

Epstein said today that pretty much everyone is available. The Reds could certainly use DeJesus, and he would probably be in the right price range. Castro is available for "two immediate impact prospects," which I assume would mean Bryce Harper/Mike Trout types. No other bats are really interesting to me. Man, that lineup is terrible.

Garza and probably Dempster will be too costly for the Reds.

Marmol seems like a mess.

DeJesus makes a lot this year and next. That needs to be factored into the equation.

What about Hamilton and Cozart for Castro? Probably not enough, but good enough to start a conversation.

[RedlegJake]

DeJesus makes $4.25million this year and 6.5 million in 2013 with a team option in 2014. That's hardly expensive.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

DeJesus makes $4.25million this year and 6.5 million in 2013 with a team option in 2014. That's hardly expensive.

Willingham makes $7M a year the next 3 years, which makes him even a better bargain (for that kind of money) than DeJesus.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

15. Alfonso Soriano, OF, Cubs: Seven home runs in his past 15 games give the Cubs an outside shot to deal him, but they would still have to pay almost all of his exorbitant $18 million annual salary through 2014. The guess is the Cubs could save 20 cents on the dollar ... if they're very lucky.



I'm mildly intrigued.

[Vottomatic]

I'm mildly intrigued.

I'm not. Soriano is a bad idea, IMO.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

I'm not. Soriano is a bad idea, IMO.

A pennant race - not to mention hitting in GABP, playing for Dusty Baker again and facing Cubs' pitching three more series this season - might be what he needs to explode again.

Of course, if we trade for another Cub, we'd be dangerously close to the so-called "Ex-Cubs Factor," where teams with three or more former Cubs don't win World Series.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-Cubs_Factor

[Benihana]

Epstein said today that pretty much everyone is available. The Reds could certainly use DeJesus, and he would probably be in the right price range. Castro is available for "two immediate impact prospects," which I assume would mean Bryce Harper/Mike Trout types. No other bats are really interesting to me. Man, that lineup is terrible.

Garza and probably Dempster will be too costly for the Reds.

Marmol seems like a mess.

I'd offer Cozart and any prospect in the system for Castro. Can't imagine Cubs would deal him though.

More realistically, I think Carlos Quentin makes a ton of sense. He has been crushing the ball since coming off the DL this weekend, and is a FA at the end of the year (so he could return to SD if he wants to). I wonder what the Pads would want to rent him?

[reds44]

It would take more than Cozart + any prospect in the system for him. It would probably take Cozart + any two prospects in the system, if not more than that.

I don't see him being moved.

[Gallen5862]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Nate McLouth On Release Waivers
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [May 31 at 2:36pm CST]
The Pirates have placed outfielder Nate McLouth on release waivers, Michael Sanserino of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports (on Twitter). If McLouth clears waivers he'll be granted his unconditional release and hit free agency.

The Pirates designated McLouth for assignment six days ago following a disappointing encore in Pittsburgh. McLouth signed a one-year, $1.75MM deal with the Pirates this past offseason after spending two and a half years in Atlanta. The 30-year-old posted a .385 OPS in 62 plate appearances back in Pittsburgh.

[Johnny Footstool]

Epstein is now saying that Castro is untouchable.

[camisadelgolf]

A pennant race - not to mention hitting in GABP, playing for Dusty Baker again and facing Cubs' pitching three more series this season - might be what he needs to explode again.

Of course, if we trade for another Cub, we'd be dangerously close to the so-called "Ex-Cubs Factor," where teams with three or more former Cubs don't win World Series.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-Cubs_Factor
Sean Marshall and Miguel Cairo are both ex-Cubs.

edit:
In the minors, they also have Joey Gathright and Sean Gallagher.

[Spitball]

I'm mildly intrigued.

Back in about 1998 there was talk of Pokey Reese for Soriano. Bowden refused as he did in the Griffey deal. I doubt Soriano will ever play in Cincy.

[VottoFan54]

If we could afford to waste a bench spot on a guy who is just a PH, acquiring Jason Giambi wouldn't be a bad idea. He makes 1 million dollars this year and is a left handed hitter.

[WVRedsFan]

Back in about 1998 there was talk of Pokey Reese for Soriano. Bowden refused as he did in the Griffey deal. I doubt Soriano will ever play in Cincy.Ah, Pokey. Bowden was such a genius. Remember his web site? Wonder where he is now?

[marcshoe]

It would take more than Cozart + any prospect in the system for him. It would probably take Cozart + any two prospects in the system, if not more than that.

I don't see him being moved.

Heck, I'd even throw in Valdez.

[DGullett35]

Carlos Quentin doesn't seem so bad. He would be a better 4 hitter than Ludwick, Heisey, and Rolen combined. I just don't see the Reds getting rid of Ludwick tho. If we pick up an OF then Ludwick would have to go right?

[Kc61]

Carlos Quentin doesn't seem so bad. He would be a better 4 hitter than Ludwick, Heisey, and Rolen combined. I just don't see the Reds getting rid of Ludwick tho. If we pick up an OF then Ludwick would have to go right?

No. Reds have only four full time outfielders. Bruce, Stubbs, Heisey, Ludwick.

They can take on another outfielder and keep all of the above.

One of Constanzo, Cairo, or Valdez would have to go.

Reds would then have five outfielders, six infielders, two catchers. This is not an unusual set up.

I'm counting Frazier as an infielder for these purposes.

[mdccclxix]

No. Reds have only four full time outfielders. Bruce, Stubbs, Heisey, Ludwick.

They can take on another outfielder and keep all of the above.

One of Constanzo, Cairo, or Valdez would have to go.

Reds would then have five outfielders, six infielders, two catchers. This is not an unusual set up.

I'm counting Frazier as an infielder for these purposes.

Rolen will be due back at some point, I'd think. Although, it's not impossible he won't make it back.

[LegallyMinded]

I'm mildly intrigued.

Same here. The Cubs are willing to eat up to 45 of the 48 million dollars remaining on Soriano's contract, according to MLBTR (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/05/cubs-will-consider-offers-for-castro-others.html), and Soriano currently has a .321 wOBA on the year. Paying 3 million dollars for a player who could be the second best outfielder on the team through 2014 seems like it's worth at least a look.

[Chip R]

Ah, Pokey. Bowden was such a genius. Remember his web site? Wonder where he is now?

He's doing radio. Mainly Sunday night games.

[RichRed]

No thanks to Soriano. I don't think the Reds need another swing-at-everything hitter in the lineup who, by the way, is also a horrible defender.

[westofyou]

Soriano?

I'd rather slit my wrists

[Vottomatic]

No thanks to Soriano. I don't think the Reds need another swing-at-everything hitter in the lineup who, by the way, is also a horrible defender.

Exactly. The Reds have the same player x 7 or 9 guys. Wanna-be power hitters that strike out alot.

I never thought I'd say this, but if the White Sox would do what the Cubs are willing to do, and pay most of Adam Dunn's salary, I'd take him back in a heartbeat. The LF defense could be overlooked if he hit 40 HR's and kept his usual high OBP. Problem is.........the White Sox have been on a tear and fighting for first place.

[jhu1321]

This has prompted much discussion already but the Red Sox have stated they intend to trade Youklis........ after a declaration like that, how much longer can he possibly be in Beantown?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/06/red-sox-intend-to-trade-kevin-youkilis.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[corkedbat]

Carlos Quentin doesn't seem so bad. He would be a better 4 hitter than Ludwick, Heisey, and Rolen combined. I just don't see the Reds getting rid of Ludwick tho. If we pick up an OF then Ludwick would have to go right?

Not necessarily - especially if Heisey were to go in a deal.

[Johnny Footstool]

This has prompted much discussion already but the Red Sox have stated they intend to trade Youklis........ after a declaration like that, how much longer can he possibly be in Beantown?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/06/red-sox-intend-to-trade-kevin-youkilis.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The Red Sox announce what everyone already knew.

I, for one, think Youkilis would outperform expectations as a Red. Rotate him in at 3B, 1B, and maybe LF. Let him give Votto and Rolen the occasional break, and keep everyone fresh for September and possibly October.

[Tom Servo]

I think Youkilis, depending on the asking price, is definitely a risk worth taking.

[camisadelgolf]

Soriano?

I'd rather slit my wrists
Me, too. The Reds would be fortunate to get replacement-level production out of him. Seeing as how he makes $19M/year, I'd rather see what Denis Phipps could do in left field. Soriano's contract reeked of Carlos Lee as soon as it was signed.

[reds44]

His contract doesn't matter though. Clearly if the Reds traded for him the Cubs would have to eat a whole lot of that.

[RedlegJake]

Soriano's last decent season was 2008, his defense is atrocious, and his hacktastic ways and low OBP are what the Reds are trying to balance out a bit not add to.

[REDREAD]

Carlos Quentin doesn't seem so bad. He would be a better 4 hitter than Ludwick, Heisey, and Rolen combined. I just don't see the Reds getting rid of Ludwick tho. If we pick up an OF then Ludwick would have to go right?

Considering that Constanzo is virtually worthless, I think the team could add an OF and just drop Constanzo. They could carry 5 OF, IMO.. especially since Valdez can cover all the infield slots.

Although I am assuming Rolen is done for the year. If the Reds plan on reinstating him from the DL, that could cause a roster crunch.

[camisadelgolf]

His contract doesn't matter though. Clearly if the Reds traded for him the Cubs would have to eat a whole lot of that.
Sure, the Cubs would be willing to chip in if the Reds were the only team crazy enough to bring him in, but I'm not so sure the Cubs would pay the Reds over $30M to make that happen. Besides, Soriano has a no-trade clause, so the discussion is moot for more reasons than one.

[reds44]

Sure, the Cubs would be willing to chip in if the Reds were the only team crazy enough to bring him in, but I'm not so sure the Cubs would pay the Reds over $30M to make that happen. Besides, Soriano has a no-trade clause, so the discussion is moot for more reasons than one.
Because Soriano wouldn't waive his NTC to go to a contender?

[camisadelgolf]

Because Soriano wouldn't waive his NTC to go to a contender?
It's public knowledge that he would approve a trade to a contender, but it's also known that it would need to be a city where he and his family felt comfortable. Is that Cincinnati? Who knows? It's not a big market, so I kind of doubt it, but he plays bad defense and--more importantly--doesn't get on base. It makes no sense for anyone to trade for him, especially the Reds.

[Tom Servo]

The idea of getting Soriano is bad and people suggesting it should feel bad.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Exactly. The Reds have the same player x 7 or 9 guys. Wanna-be power hitters that strike out alot.

I never thought I'd say this, but if the White Sox would do what the Cubs are willing to do, and pay most of Adam Dunn's salary, I'd take him back in a heartbeat. The LF defense could be overlooked if he hit 40 HR's and kept his usual high OBP. Problem is.........the White Sox have been on a tear and fighting for first place.

The White Sox are in first place in a winnable division. They're not dealing Adam Dunn. And, unfortunately, with the extra wild card, plenty of other teams will be reluctant to part ways with contributors.

[Vottomatic]

The White Sox are in first place in a winnable division. They're not dealing Adam Dunn. And, unfortunately, with the extra wild card, plenty of other teams will be reluctant to part ways with contributors.

Pretty much my point. :eek:

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

The idea of getting Soriano is bad and people suggesting it should feel bad.

The idea of standing pat is even worse. And we have a GM who is known - during his Cincinnati tenure at least - to do just that.

We're not going to be getting any Shin Soo Choos or Adam Dunns ... the player/players we get are going to be from downright awful clubs. The Cubs, along with the Twins and Royals fit that bill. Not many other clubs do.

[RedlegJake]

The idea of standing pat is even worse. And we have a GM who is known - during his Cincinnati tenure at least - to do just that.

We're not going to be getting any Shin Soo Choos or Adam Dunns ... the player/players we get are going to be from downright awful clubs. The Cubs, along with the Twins and Royals fit that bill. Not many other clubs do.

That just isn't so. I see it much more likely to be a hitter from a contender for a reliever.

[edabbs44]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/19216063/newlook-market-at-mlb-trade-deadline-loaded-with-pitching

8. Carlos Quentin, OF, Padres: He was counted on to be a middle-of-the-order presence for the Padres, but he could just do it for someone else now that he's back. Off to an incredibly hot start since his return from the disabled list, he has six extra-base hits and a 2.226 OPS through three games.

9. Kevin Youkilis, IF, Red Sox: His presence is causing first baseman extraordinaire Adrian Gonzalez to play the outfield. "This is only a temporary solution," one Red Sox person said. Could Youk be temporary in Boston?

15. Alfonso Soriano, OF, Cubs: Seven home runs in his past 15 games give the Cubs an outside shot to deal him, but they would still have to pay almost all of his exorbitant $18 million annual salary through 2014. The guess is the Cubs could save 20 cents on the dollar ... if they're very lucky.

21. David DeJesus, OF, Cubs: He's a solid player who has come back to form with a .379 on-base percentage (but don't let him steal, he's 0 for 4). He may not be a part of the Cubs' future since they will eventually need outfield spots for Brett Jackson and possibly even Bryan LaHair (assuming Anthony Rizzo is called up to play first base, probably around June 23 when his free agency could be delayed a year).

28. Jason Giambi, PH-1B, Rockies: He can still pop once every once in awhile, he walks a lot (.440 on-base percentage) and the $1 million salary isn't exactly onerous.

Without giving it a ton of thought , I would include Scutaro and Doumit to this list. I am surprised that there isn't more noise on here about Cozart and his Taveras like OBP.

[edabbs44]

The idea of standing pat is even worse. And we have a GM who is known - during his Cincinnati tenure at least - to do just that.

We're not going to be getting any Shin Soo Choos or Adam Dunns ... the player/players we get are going to be from downright awful clubs. The Cubs, along with the Twins and Royals fit that bill. Not many other clubs do.

Standing pat isn't always a problem. Some of those non-moves have allowed players such as Latos and marshall to join the team later on. He's not scared to make a move, he just doesn't make moves for the sake of doing so.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Standing pat isn't always a problem. Some of those non-moves have allowed players such as Latos and marshall to join the team later on. He's not scared to make a move, he just doesn't make moves for the sake of doing so.

You can say that, but you can also look at it the other way. The total inaction at the 2010 trading deadline was both dispiriting and stupid. That team could have definitely stood to make some moves, and the resulting 3-game embarrassment at the hands of the Phillies was proof.

Last year, not so much. That team probably wasn't going anywhere. Though they weren't that far separated from the Cardinals at the end of July, and we know how that turned out.

[Tom Servo]

Nearly landing Cliff Lee is hardly inaction, I'd say.

[camisadelgolf]

You can say that, but you can also look at it the other way. The total inaction at the 2010 trading deadline was both dispiriting and stupid. That team could have definitely stood to make some moves, and the resulting 3-game embarrassment at the hands of the Phillies was proof.

Last year, not so much. That team probably wasn't going anywhere. Though they weren't that far separated from the Cardinals at the end of July, and we know how that turned out.
There is no single player or two the Reds could've realistically obtained that would've gotten the Reds to the next round of the 2010 playoffs. And what would the Reds have given up to improve at the 2010 deadline? Probably guys the 2012 squad is counting on like Zack Cozart, Devin Mesoraco, Todd Frazier, etc.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

There is no single player or two the Reds could've realistically obtained that would've gotten the Reds to the next round of the 2010 playoffs. And what would the Reds have given up to improve at the 2010 deadline? Probably guys the 2012 squad is counting on like Zack Cozart, Devin Mesoraco, Todd Frazier, etc.

Total speculation at this point, but Cliff Lee pitching Game 2 for the Reds likely evens the series 1-1 coming back to Cincinnati. After that, it's anyone's game.

And wasn't Matt Kemp's name tossed around that year as a potential trade candidate? He was disgruntled and underperforming in LA and a lot of people thought a change of scenery trade was imminent, at least in the following offseason.

[Big Klu]

Total speculation at this point, but Cliff Lee pitching Game 2 for the Reds likely evens the series 1-1 coming back to Cincinnati. After that, it's anyone's game.

Why wouldn't Cliff Lee pitch Game 1 for the Reds?

[757690]

Total speculation at this point, but Cliff Lee pitching Game 2 for the Reds likely evens the series 1-1 coming back to Cincinnati. After that, it's anyone's game.

Lee wouldn't have been very effective in game 2, since he would have been worn out from starting game 1.

[757690]

Why wouldn't Cliff Lee pitch Game 1 for the Reds?

It's his fantasy, let him pitch who he wants, when he wants ;)

[757690]

Sure, the Cubs would be willing to chip in if the Reds were the only team crazy enough to bring him in, but I'm not so sure the Cubs would pay the Reds over $30M to make that happen. Besides, Soriano has a no-trade clause, so the discussion is moot for more reasons than one.

https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/DKnobler/status/208335568998899713


Not surprisingly, Cubs are telling teams they will eat almost all of Soriano $$ (maybe all but $3 mill) if they can dump him.

[camisadelgolf]

https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/DKnobler/status/208335568998899713
$3M annually is an awful lot of money for an aging, mediocre outfielder.

[757690]

$3M annually is an awful lot of money for an aging, mediocre outfielder.

It's $3M for three years. $1M a year.

Basically, Cubs would rather have prospects in their system than Soriano on the club for the next three years, for the same money.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Why wouldn't Cliff Lee pitch Game 1 for the Reds?

I suppose he would have, but even he wouldn't have altered the outcome of that game. But a part of me thinks Dusty would want to put his stamp on things by starting his Opening Day starter in Game 1.

[Big Klu]

I suppose he would have, but even he wouldn't have altered the outcome of that game. But a part of me thinks Dusty would want to put his stamp on things by starting his Opening Day starter in Game 1.

If you have a pitcher like Cliff Lee on that staff, he has to pitch Game 1. Dusty knows that.

[edabbs44]

If you have a pitcher like Cliff Lee on that staff, he has to pitch Game 1. Dusty knows that.

Dusty may have put him in the pen.

[mth123]

One thing to keep in mind on any potential trades, teams can't trade guys who were signed as major league free agents until June 16th (unless the player give written consent).

The Reds couldn't acquire, say, David Dejesus until then and some one like Ludwick couldn't be dealt until then. I'm pretty anxious for the Reds to make a move, but there are some limitations.

[Vottomatic]

Trade idea:

Mat Latos to the Padres for Volquez, Boxberger, Grandal and Alonso. :D

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Trade idea:

Mat Latos to the Padres for Volquez, Boxberger, Grandal and Alonso. :D

I like it.

But San Diego would be stupid to make that trade.

[HokieRed]

Has a chance to be as bad as the Hamilton trade, which is saying a lot.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Trade idea:

Mat Latos to the Padres for Volquez, Boxberger, Grandal and Alonso. :D

They could even keep Volquez.

[Patrick Bateman]

I like it.

But San Diego would be stupid to make that trade.

Latos has certainly not pitched well this year. I would characterize his first 5 starts as having significant controls problems. Since then that hasn't been an issue. Really, the issue the last 2 starts was homers, but at the same time, we know that could be random variance.... he has been K'ing lots of guys... seems like most balls hit in the air the last 2 games have gotten over the wall. Homers always make the pitcher looks ugly, but the rest of his game looks like it has turned the corner for some time, I think the last 2 games are likely not indicative of his true talent level as his last 5 were.

Again, he has been below expectations to this point, but I do believe he has pitched better lately even if the results look ugly. What he did the 2 prior years are still worth more in his future player evaluation than his most recent 11 starts.

In the end, the Reds paid a high price, comprised mostly of blocked parts, and unnecessary pieces. The cost of acquiring 4 years of a young, cheap, near elite pitcher was always going to cost the price paid, and I am still comfortable with the track record of Latos that he can rebound from his current issues. I don't think evaluating this trade as a clear loss at this point is rational, or considerate of the costs required for such a piece.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I can't believe how many people still think that might've been a bad trade.

The only 2 viable players we traded had no chance at playing with the Reds. Grandal is blocked by not only Hanny, but Mes too. He wouldn't have sniffed the bigs for 2 more years with the Reds. Yonder had proven without a doubt that he was NOT a left-fielder. And is anybody really complaining that we signed Joey to an extension? LOL.

Volquez...I was at the point where I was willing to pay for his bus fare out of town myself. But considering it was Edinson, I'm sure he'd prefer to just walk. :O)

3 unusable parts and a reliever for a young TOR starter. I do this every day of the week.

[RedsManRick]

I can't believe how many people still think that might've been a bad trade.

The only 2 viable players we traded had no chance at playing with the Reds. Grandal is blocked by not only Hanny, but Mes too. He wouldn't have sniffed the bigs for 2 more years with the Reds. Yonder had proven without a doubt that he was NOT a left-fielder. And is anybody really complaining that we signed Joey to an extension? LOL.

Volquez...I was at the point where I was willing to pay for his bus fare out of town myself. But considering it was Edinson, I'm sure he'd prefer to just walk. :O)

3 unusable parts and a reliever for a young TOR starter. I do this every day of the week.

If Latos had a 2.80 ERA, people wouldn't be complaining. In reality, it's less about what we gave up than it is people feeling like we didn't get back what we hoped.

[Tom Servo]

people feeling like we didn't get back what we hoped.
In 11 starts.

[dougdirt]

If Latos had a 2.80 ERA, people wouldn't be complaining. In reality, it's less about what we gave up than it is people feeling like we didn't get back what we hoped.

Pretty much. Of course, "people" have a tough time understanding sample sizes too. Latos had put together a run of 7 straight starts with a 2.72 ERA and no one was saying much of anything. Then he has his first bad start in 6 weeks and now the trade is bad again because he had three poor starts to begin the year?

[_Sir_Charles_]

If Latos had a 2.80 ERA, people wouldn't be complaining. In reality, it's less about what we gave up than it is people feeling like we didn't get back what we hoped.

Yeah, probably. I know he was considered a slow starter, but I'd be interested in hearing his comments from last nights game. He kept playing with his middle finger in between pitches and constantly looking at his hand. His breaking balls AND fastballs were all over the place and he bounced at least 2 pitches in each inning during warmups. Something definitely wasn't right. I was guessing blister during the game. Has anybody seen any comments from him from yesterday?

[mdccclxix]

He's had a below average start to the season. Even his best start took 110+ pitches to get through the 7th inning. His FIP is 4.91 on the year, it was 5.14 in May, sure he's got talent, but he's not been the great addition I hoped for yet. Add to that the fact he's a fly ball pitcher giving up HR's at an alarming rate, it's not unreasonable to wonder what we should expect from him. Right now, he's a #4/#5 type starter. We had that already.

[dougdirt]

He's had a below average start to the season. Even his best start took 110+ pitches to get through the 7th inning. His FIP is 4.91 on the year, it was 5.14 in May, sure he's got talent, but he's not been the great addition I hoped for yet. Add to that the fact he's a fly ball pitcher giving up HR's at an alarming rate, it's not unreasonable to wonder what we should expect from him. Right now, he's a #4/#5 type starter. We had that already.

His xFIP in May was 3.92. And to be honest, we didn't have a #4/5 starter like him. This guy has elite swing and miss stuff and good control (most of the time).

To me, it is incredibly unreasonable to wonder what to expect from him. His career track record says a whole lot more than what 4 bad starts in 2012 say about him, yet those 4 bad starts are what have people concerned, not what the rest of his 79 in his career do.

[RedsManRick]

He's had a below average start to the season. Even his best start took 110+ pitches to get through the 7th inning. His FIP is 4.91 on the year, it was 5.14 in May, sure he's got talent, but he's not been the great addition I hoped for yet. Add to that the fact he's a fly ball pitcher giving up HR's at an alarming rate, it's not unreasonable to wonder what we should expect from him. Right now, he's a #4/#5 type starter. We had that already.

A 15% HR/FB rate is obviously inflated - comparable to what Arroyo deal with last year. I don't think it's at all wrong to wonder what level of performance Latos going to settle in at. But we shouldn't be worried that a 4.91 FIP is that level. THe K's are there, maybe a touch low. The BB rate is a little high. But the big problem is the HRs and the HRs aren't going to continue at this rate.

The real question in my mind is whether he's a very solid middle of the rotation guy or #1. In any event, he's 1 month younger than Mike Leake. Patience is a virtue.

[mdccclxix]

His xFIP in May was 3.92. And to be honest, we didn't have a #4/5 starter like him. This guy has elite swing and miss stuff and good control (most of the time).

To me, it is incredibly unreasonable to wonder what to expect from him. His career track record says a whole lot more than what 4 bad starts in 2012 say about him, yet those 4 bad starts are what have people concerned, not what the rest of his 79 in his career do.

It's incredibly unreasonable? He's had 3 quality starts in 11 tries. It's just been a bad start to his time in Cincinnati. Could it have been worse? Well, yeah, his FIP says as much.

[dougdirt]

It's incredibly unreasonable? He's had 3 quality starts in 11 tries. It's just been a bad start to his time in Cincinnati. Could it have been worse? Well, yeah, his FIP says as much.

Yes, it is incredibly unreasonable to make a comparison between Latos (career 3.57 ERA, 492 IP, 158 walks, 469 strikeouts and 1.19 WHIP) to a #4 and #5 starter and question what he is based on four starts (the other 11 have amounted to this: 43.2ip, 3.30 ERA, 14BB, 40K and 1.14 WHIP). It is like saying Albert Pujols is a #7 or 8 hitter based on how his season started.

[mdccclxix]

Look, I'm more wondering if he's a mid rotation guy for Cincinnati - because he's pitched like a back of the rotation guy and he's coming from the NL West where Reds castoffs are doing really well. I expected more Cole Hamels and less Felipe Paulino, that appears to have been a mistake. So, like I said, I am in a wait and see mode now with him, whereas before I had more confidence. Sure he's got track record to go on, but he's trending the wrong way recently (and going back to the end of last year).

[camisadelgolf]

Look, I'm more wondering if he's a mid rotation guy for Cincinnati - because he's pitched like a back of the rotation guy and he's coming from the NL West where Reds castoffs are doing really well. I expected more Cole Hamels and less Felipe Paulino, that appears to have been a mistake. So, like I said, I am in a wait and see mode now with him, whereas before I had more confidence. Sure he's got track record to go on, but he's trending the wrong way recently (and going back to the end of last year).
Sure, he's pitching like a middle-of-the-rotation guy lately, but he's been pitching about as bad as ever; one might call it an "adjustment period". But the fact is that he's less than 10% through his term with the Reds, so he has plenty of time to turn things around and improve on his 4-2 record. By the way, the Padres are 4-8 when Volquez pitches, and the Reds are 6-5 when Latos pitches.

[dougdirt]

Look, I'm more wondering if he's a mid rotation guy for Cincinnati - because he's pitched like a back of the rotation guy and he's coming from the NL West where Reds castoffs are doing really well. I expected more Cole Hamels and less Felipe Paulino, that appears to have been a mistake. So, like I said, I am in a wait and see mode now with him, whereas before I had more confidence. Sure he's got track record to go on, but he's trending the wrong way recently (and going back to the end of last year).

Or you just decided to make an opinion based on far too small of a sample size. And really, he isn't trending the wrong way recently. I posted earlier in this thread that in his 7 starts prior to last night, his ERA was 2.72 with strong peripherals. That isn't trending in the wrong direction.

[VottoFan54]

We should leave the Latos trade discussion for this thread: Reds acquire Mat Latos for Yonder Alonso + (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93158)

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

I can't believe how many people still think that might've been a bad trade.

The only 2 viable players we traded had no chance at playing with the Reds. Grandal is blocked by not only Hanny, but Mes too. He wouldn't have sniffed the bigs for 2 more years with the Reds. Yonder had proven without a doubt that he was NOT a left-fielder. And is anybody really complaining that we signed Joey to an extension? LOL.

Volquez...I was at the point where I was willing to pay for his bus fare out of town myself. But considering it was Edinson, I'm sure he'd prefer to just walk. :O)

3 unusable parts and a reliever for a young TOR starter. I do this every day of the week.


It's not that Grandal, Alonso, Boxberger and Volquez were going to play in Cincinnati this year - or ever. Of course they were blocked. But the issue is what we got for them. The Reds were rumored to be interested in James Shields over the winter. Could that package have brought him to Cincy?

In related news ... Dallas Latos deleted her Twitter account after last night's game.

[DGullett35]

Just throwing a name out there to get off the Latos debate.What about Johnny Damon? All the Cleveland radio guys are saying he now may want out of Cleveland. He went on paternity leave, but his wife had the kid awhile ago. Seems kind of fishy. He could be taking some time to weigh his options and may ask to be let go. Damon and Clevelands GM Chris Antonetti have some kind of agreement that if he isn't happy he can be let go. Id take him. The guy can hit in the top of the order. Hitting in front of Votto would help him a ton, since hes been moved all over the Tribes lineup. I know his OBP wasn't too good last year and is almost as bad as Cozarts this year, but I still think he could be the lefty bat we need, and since I live near Cleveland I watch alot of Indians games because there on TV every freaking night. Ive seen Damon make some good plays in Left. He has no arm but he can still move pretty good. Id take him over Ludwick for sure.

[PuffyPig]

Ive seen Damon make some good plays in Left.

That surprises me, becuase I didn't think he's ever made any.....

He's 39 with an OPS of .528.

He's beyond done.

[cincrazy]

That surprises me, becuase I didn't think he's ever made any.....

He's 39 with an OPS of .528.

He's beyond done.

.528 OPS, yes. You conveniently forgot to mention the extreme small sample size. He had a productive year last year. The Reds need table setters in front of Votto. Taking a flier on the guy wouldn't hurt.

[DGullett35]

That surprises me, becuase I didn't think he's ever made any.....

He's 39 with an OPS of .528.

He's beyond done.

I thought the same as you but honestly I have seen him make a couple diving plays and a catch where he ran into the wall. Hes not as bad as hes made out to be. Now his arm may be the worst in the league. If he wants to leave Cleveland its at least worth a phone call.

[RedlegJake]

Damon is old but he can still play. He is actually a decent fielder but his range has diminished - and his arm is bad - and at 39 its worse than it ever was. When he was young it was a chicken flap. Damon would be a nice bench player for pinch hitting role if he was making about 1 million. An emergency fielder and pinch hitter. Other than that he's done, imo. A year too late.

[OldXOhio]

Buster Olney is tweeting what a fit Carlos Quentin would be in Cincinnati. I don't have insider access to view the article in its entirety or I'd post it w/ the link.

[corkedbat]

If Stubbs is going to be out any length of time, how about making an offer to the Twinks for Spann or maybe Fowler from the Rox?

[fearofpopvol1]

Buster Olney is tweeting what a fit Carlos Quentin would be in Cincinnati. I don't have insider access to view the article in its entirety or I'd post it w/ the link.

Correct. Basically, Olney says that the cleanup spot has been a problem and Reds LFers are ranked 23rd in OPS. And that the Reds did a deal earlier with Padres, so the Padres are already familiar with their system and what they would want from them.

[PuffyPig]

.528 OPS, yes. You conveniently forgot to mention the extreme small sample size.


He's had 100 AB's which is hardly an "extreme small sample size". An extreme small sample size is probably closer to 10 AB's.

Especially for aguy who is 39 with decreasing stats for some time.

[Rojo]

Basically, Olney says that the cleanup spot has been a problem

The "clean-up" problem is a bit of a mirage created by Dusty's line-ups. The Reds are third in the league in slugging but 13th in OBP.

They need base-reachers ahead of the sluggers.

[Kc61]

The "clean-up" problem is a bit of a mirage created by Dusty's line-ups. The Reds are third in the league in slugging but 13th in OBP.

They need base-reachers ahead of the sluggers.

It would be great if the Reds could get a middle of the order righty power bat. No question it would add. Phillips doesn't belong there.

But Rojo is absolutely correct that it is not the main priority. The Reds have two big hitters and some other guys with ample power. They need more men on base.

[Benihana]

How about something like Soto and Duran for (a rental of) Carlos Quentin?

I wonder who hangs up first.

Pads get 1B depth and a lottery ticket for a guy who could likely return to them in the offseason (he's from there).

[mace]

How about something like Soto and Duran for (a rental of) Carlos Quentin?

Pads get 1B depth and a lottery ticket for a guy who could likely return to them in the offseason (he's from there).

Maybe I'm missing something, but where are you guys getting that Quentin would be a rental? His baseballreference page shows that 2013 will be his third year or arbitration eligibility, and then he'd be a free agent. I think.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/q/quentca01.shtml

[Benihana]

Maybe I'm missing something, but where are you guys getting that Quentin would be a rental? His baseballreference page shows that 2013 will be his third year or arbitration eligibility, and then he'd be a free agent. I think.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/q/quentca01.shtml

I think this year was his 3rd year eligible arbitration.

[Gallen5862]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Rays Designate Brandon Allen For Assignment
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [June 6 at 12:43pm CST]
The Rays designated Brandon Allen for assignment upon reinstating him from the disabled list today, MLB.com's Bill Chastain reports. The 26-year-old must clear waivers before the Rays can assign him outright to the minor leagues.

[Gallen5862]

Would Brandon Allen be worth a waiver claim?

[DGullett35]

For as hot as Quentin is right now I think the Pads should dump him as quick as possible, They may get a little more value from him. Im sure teams may be holding out to see where his health goes from here. The guy is injury prone. Saying that if Im the reds Id look into it and IMO I would love for him to be hitting in the 4 hole.

DatDudeBP
Cozart
Votto
Quentin
Bruce
Rolen/Frazier
Hanigan
Stubby

Not too bad of a looking lineup. You could also switch up Stubbs and Cozart to utilize Stubby's speed, and heck I wish Dusty would hit Hanigan there every so often. I bet Ryan would end the season as a .300 hitter if he hit 2nd in this lineup, and we could use the hit and run more often. Guys in scoring position for Votto = lots of runs

[Vottomatic]

DatDudeBP
Cozart
Votto
Quentin
Bruce
Rolen/Frazier
Hanigan
Stubby



I can only wonder how much better the lineup would be had the Reds traded Stubbs this past offseason, signed Dejesus ($6M) to play CF, and obtained either Quentin ($7M) or Melky Cabrera ($?M) to play LF and bat 4th behind Votto. Dejesus, Quentin, and Cabrera are all high OBP guys. Quentin has the power. Cabrera has a good BA this year. Subtract Ludwick's $3M and it probably would have cost another $10M for a potent offense and to get their money's worth out of Votto as an rbi guy with guys ahead that get on base to knock in.

CF Dejesus
2B Phillips
1B Votto
LF Cabrera or Quentin
RF Bruce
3B Frazier
C Hanigan
SS Cozart

[*BaseClogger*]

I can only wonder how much better the lineup would be had the Reds traded Stubbs this past offseason, signed Dejesus ($6M) to play CF, and obtained either Quentin ($7M) or Melky Cabrera ($?M) to play LF and bat 4th behind Votto. Dejesus, Quentin, and Cabrera are all high OBP guys. Quentin has the power. Cabrera has a good BA this year. Subtract Ludwick's $3M and it probably would have cost another $10M for a potent offense and to get their money's worth out of Votto as an rbi guy with guys ahead that get on base to knock in.

CF Dejesus
2B Phillips
1B Votto
LF Cabrera or Quentin
RF Bruce
3B Frazier
C Hanigan
SS Cozart

$10M is nothing to scoff at, even if my hunch is correct that DeJesus would have taken a discount to join a contender. DeJesus is more of a LF than a CF at this juncture in his career, however...

[camisadelgolf]

Maybe I'm missing something, but where are you guys getting that Quentin would be a rental? His baseballreference page shows that 2013 will be his third year or arbitration eligibility, and then he'd be a free agent. I think.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/q/quentca01.shtml
Unless Quentin is sent to the minors soon, he will undoubtedly be a free agent after this year. Once a player finishes a season with six years of service time in the majors, he is eligible. After this year, he will have six years and change.

[corkedbat]

Wouldn't Cabrrera be a better CF than DeJesus? Despite his lack of power, I thought DeJesus was strictly a corner guy.

[*BaseClogger*]

Wouldn't Cabrrera be a better CF than DeJesus? Despite his lack of power, I thought DeJesus was strictly a corner guy.

I actually think DeJesus is a better outfielder defensively, but it likely doesn't matter since I doubt the Giants end up selling...

[reds44]

It's $3M for three years. $1M a year.

Basically, Cubs would rather have prospects in their system than Soriano on the club for the next three years, for the same money.
People see Soriano automatically hate the idea, but we're talking about getting a guy pretty much for free. Even with the Cubs eating that much money, you're probably not going to have to give up much of anything in terms of prospects.

Soriano has a line of .263/.312/.462/.774 this year. It's something I would seriously consider. It would be pretty much putting another Brandon Phillips in the lineup (obviously not in the field) with a little more power.

[camisadelgolf]

People see Soriano automatically hate the idea, but we're talking about getting a guy pretty much for free. Even with the Cubs eating that much money, you're probably not going to have to give up much of anything in terms of prospects.

Soriano has a line of .263/.312/.462/.774 this year. It's something I would seriously consider. It would be pretty much putting another Brandon Phillips in the lineup (obviously not in the field) with a little more power.
BP minus the defense would be pretty mediocre for a second baseman. And ignoring defense and looking at only OPS, Soriano isn't that much better than Heisey/Ludwick. I'm not necessarily saying Soriano wouldn't be an upgrade, but I think the Reds should set their sets higher. Besides, for Soriano's production, you can probably find as much production for a player to be named later. All across AAA, there are players just as good as Soriano, Jonny Gomes, Laynce Nix, Jeremy Hermida, Chris Dickerson, Dewayne Wise, etc.

Personally, I'd call up Oakland to see if they'd be willing to part with Seth Smith. If it doesn't work out, he's just a nontender away from being off the roster in the off-season. With Soriano, I have my doubts about the Cubs willing to pay a division rival over $40M just to take him off their hands.

[puca]

People see Soriano automatically hate the idea, but we're talking about getting a guy pretty much for free. Even with the Cubs eating that much money, you're probably not going to have to give up much of anything in terms of prospects.

Soriano has a line of .263/.312/.462/.774 this year. It's something I would seriously consider. It would be pretty much putting another Brandon Phillips in the lineup (obviously not in the field) with a little more power.

The last thing the Reds should be looking for is another low OBP swing-and-miss hitter.

If Soriano still played 2b and the Reds didn't have Brandon Phillips I would consider it. He doesn't and the Reds do so I wouldn't.

[Crumbley]

Is Soriano's defense *that* bad?

[camisadelgolf]

Is Soriano's defense *that* bad?
It probably seems exaggerated, which it might be, but the Cubs are making him the DH whenever possible. Seeing as how they're a team already known for bad defense, it's probably saying something.

[Kc61]

The last thing the Reds should be looking for is another low OBP swing-and-miss hitter.

If Soriano still played 2b and the Reds didn't have Brandon Phillips I would consider it. He doesn't and the Reds do so I wouldn't.

This. And Soriano is another righty, to add to the many RH swing and miss bats the Reds already have. Very poor fit IMO.

[reds44]

Is Soriano's defense *that* bad?

No, it's not. It's really not any worse than Gomes was and the Reds won the division with him in LF.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I'm guessing that several people on here probably know the in's and out's of the Indians franchise. I've been out of touch with them for a couple of decades now. What are their strengths, what are their needs. I ask because IMO Shin-Soo Choo fits our needs perfectly. He's been declining in regards to his power for the past couple of seasons. A switch to GABP would help that I'd think. He's always been a very high OBP hitter. He's a lefty. He's a solid defender. What would it take to pry him away from the Tribe?

[Scrap Irony]

Too much, IMO. Corcino, Hamilton, perhaps Cingrani as a primary plus Heisey. Maybe more.

I'd target Chris Denorfia. He's been better than league average for three years in a park best suited for defense. His glove is plus, he's cheap, and he's willing to take a walk.

IMO, you could get him fairly cheaply. (I'm pretty sure Donnie Joseph would get it done by himself.)

How about buying low on Domonic Brown in Philly? Victorino might also be interesting, assuming the Phils would take Stubbs.

Would a Victorino and Brown for Billy Hamilton, Stubbs, and Henry Rodriguez deal work for the Reds?

[westofyou]

Choo ain't going anywhere, that's another pipe dream

[RedlegJake]

I can't imagine what the Reds could offer the Indians that would help the Indians this year more than Choo already does. They wouldn't deal him strictly for the future since they are in it and likely to be all year in that division.

[Vottomatic]

How 'bout the Reds just get a new hitting instructor? :D

[Vottomatic]

I predict they will acquire Willingham near the trade deadline. :thumbup:

[DGullett35]

I predict they will acquire Willingham near the trade deadline. :thumbup:

^I could see this happening

[mth123]

I don't think the Reds have the talent pool to outbid others on Willingham. Maybe if they put Hamilton and Corcino in the deal with say Heisey, but there are enough teams who need bats that the Twins could probably get an immediate highly rated prospect for him. The Reds problem is most of the desireable guys are a couple years away.

Here is a deal that might be more reasonable. Kyle Lotzkar and Nick Christiani for David Dejesus with the Cubs sending money to cover much of 2012. Many would probably balk at giving up Lotzkar, but I'd do that deal right now if it were possible. Heck, I'd substitute Corcino if need be and there are guys that I like better than Dejesus, but he is a really good fit for what ails this team.

[Johnny Footstool]

Here is a deal that might be more reasonable. Kyle Lotzkar and Nick Christiani for David Dejesus with the Cubs sending money to cover much of 2012. Many would probably balk at giving up Lotzkar, but I'd do that deal right now if it were possible. Heck, I'd substitute Corcino if need be and there are guys that I like better than Dejesus, but he is a really good fit for what ails this team.

Yes, this is a deal that makes sense. Not shooting for the moon.

[westofyou]

^I could see this happening

Just inked last off season to a 3 year 21 million buck contract.

The Reds won't take on that commitment, any player they go after will either be cheap or on a 1 year contract

[Benihana]

Just inked last off season to a 3 year 21 million buck contract.

The Reds won't take on that commitment, any player they go after will either be cheap or on a 1 year contract

And they'll never resign Votto. Or if they do, Phillips is as good as gone.

I don't think anyone, no matter how long they've been following this team, is in a position to comment on what the Reds are or aren't willing to do in terms of payroll commitments.

[OesterPoster]

Interesting little blurb in Jayson Stark's column this afternoon about Victorino (maybe he'll become available yet after all):

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/rumblings120608/five-teams-shocked-most-2012


• Teams that have spoken with the Phillies have come away believing that GM Ruben Amaro Jr. is on a mission to get younger, after watching so many of his aging players get hurt. In a related development, folks around the minor leagues report that Phillies scouts are targeting young third basemen and center fielders, as Placido Polanco and Shane Victorino approach free agency.

[mdccclxix]

^^^works on multiple levels^^^

[westofyou]

And they'll never resign Votto. Or if they do, Phillips is as good as gone.

I don't think anyone, no matter how long they've been following this team, is in a position to comment on what the Reds are or aren't willing to do in terms of payroll commitments.

But... I just did

I don't think the Reds will take on 18 million dollars in money owed to get a LF thus summer

I also don't think they'll get Choo who can be a FA after next year and has Scott Boros as an agent

Y'all can think it will happen and I'll think it won't, one of us will be right, one of us wrong... No big deal, just opinions

[RedlegJake]

But... I just did

I don't think the Reds will take on 18 million dollars in money owed to get a LF thus summer

I also don't think they'll get Choo who can be a FA after next year and has Scott Boros as an agent

Y'all can think it will happen and I'll think it won't, one of us will be right, one of us wrong... No big deal, just opinions

I don't think they will either. I'd bet deJesus is not out of their budget range but very close to it. 4.5 (2.25 or so for half a season) and 6.5 and a year less committed. He's not a rental like Cabrera or as expensive in terms of players as Cabrera or Willingham are likely to be either. But I don't think the Reds will even go that far. My guess is Walt will find a reserve bat who is not a full time player.

[mdccclxix]

Until I hear something from Walt or Dusty about their opinion on a lack of LHB or OBP, I don't know we'll see a trade deadline move. The Votto and Phillips extentions, and Latos and Marshall trades, all sort of give this team a feel of being locked into a plan. We've seen how Dusty and Walt stick with their plan on roster decisions (even when the plan is murky - Alonso)

Also, if they wanted Willingham, they could have had him, and same with Dejesus. Now, they look kind of silly wanting to throw "key" milb pieces from a thinned out system for these same players. It just doesn't jive with me right now.

We'll see what things look like in 4 weeks. Perhaps injury will change the picture, I hope not. But right now, unless a team calls the Reds wanting a piece like Ludwick, Heisey, Frazier, Joseph, Villareal, maybe Stubbs, I don't know, I don't see the Reds shopping those players, but rather just sticking it out with them. There is a loyalty within the FO and a decorum the Reds under Walt and Bob and Dusty like to apply with their guys.

Anyway, it's a big year, things need to continue on the right path, so it would be neat to see them finally land a guy like they have been after, like your Bourne's, your Pence's, etc. We'll see.

[RedsManRick]

What I'd give for Victorino. He's had some bad BABIP luck to start the season, but he'd look awfully good at the top of the lineup.

I'd probably trade Stubbs straight up for him. I like Stubbs in theory, but I just don't see him improving at all. The strikeouts are down a little, but so are the walks because they're a result of him swinging earlier in the count (3.77 P/PA, down from 4.02 and 3.96), not actually improving any skill.

Heisey is proving himself a more than capable defender in CF -- if he was our CF in 2013, I don't think it would be any worse off than if we had Stubbs.

[reds44]

Soriano is up to .276 with 12/39 and an .827 OPS on the year.

And, he's free.

[WVPacman]

Are the braves still thinking about trading Haywood? Be nice to see him in rf!!:D

[Degenerate39]

Are the braves still thinking about trading Haywood? Be nice to see him in rf!!:D

What about Bruce?

[Kc61]

Soriano is up to .276 with 12/39 and an .827 OPS on the year.

And, he's free.

The Reds have resumed their usual lefty/righty splits. They now lead the league in OPS against lefties. As they did last year. Their hitting against righties, however, is well below NL average. It's even worse than last year.

This team does not need guys like Soriano. A top notch righty hitter, sure, but not somebody like Soriano.

The Reds mostly need lefty hitters with good OBP against righty pitchers. That's where the effort should be. On the Cubs, DeJesus is the target, not Soriano.

I don't see why DeJesus should be unobtainable. He's not a young player, as would be favored by the Cubs' rebuilding plan. He earns meaningful (but not huge) money, which the Cubs shouldn't spend because they are a rebuilding ballclub. The Cubs should want to trade him and the Reds should want to acquire him.

[edabbs44]

Soriano is up to .276 with 12/39 and an .827 OPS on the year.

And, he's free.

I'm with you on him. He wouldnt be my first choice, but he isn't a bad Plan B.

[reds44]

I'm with you on him. He wouldnt be my first choice, but he isn't a bad Plan B.
Totally agree.

[Tom Servo]

I don't see how he could possibly be 'free'. At the end of the day the Cubs would just DFA and release him if they were willing to swallow all of that money to get him off of their team.

[Vottomatic]

Willingham is the man. Putting up good numbers on a bad team.

I hope the Reds trade for him sooner than later.

[WVPacman]

What about Bruce?

Trade him for Haywood.. He is younger and has alot more potential to become a bigtime player in this league.

[Raisor]

Trade him for Haywood.. He is younger and has alot more potential to become a bigtime player in this league.

No thanks

[Gainesville Red]

Major League Baseball players don't want to play in Cincinnati because the fan base is ugly and racist.

This is what the vaunted Old Red Guard has come to?

So, trade targets? Maybe get back to that some time?

[Plus Plus]

Keep the racial stuff out of the ORG and, if you really want to discuss it, in the politics forum. This has no place here at all, especially in such a speculative manner.

[camisadelgolf]

Major League Baseball players don't want to play in Cincinnati because the fan base is ugly and racist.

This is what the vaunted Old Red Guard has come to?

So, trade targets? Maybe get back to that some time?
I was hoping we could get back to not making up things that people said (e.g. no one said players wouldn't play in Cincinnati due to racism or ugliness), but sure, I'll settle for going back to trade targets. Just don't be surprised if I refuse to count Soriano as one of them because A.) he's barely an upgrade, B.) he's too expensive, and C.) he has a no-trade clause.

[Boss-Hog]

I moved all the posts discussing the perceptions of Cincinnati into a new thread in the Politics forum; if you'd like to continue discussing, please do so there. Keep this thread for talk related to trade targets.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Willingham is the man. Putting up good numbers on a bad team.

I hope the Reds trade for him sooner than later.



Yep. He should be the main target and it's not even really close.

[Scrap Irony]

Carlos Quentin would be my top pick.

That said, both he and Willingham are going to cost an awful lot in terms of prospects.

And because of a lack of top-flight guys beyond Hamilton, maybe Corcino and Cingrani, you're going to likely lose one of those. Possibly two.

Is Willingham worth Hamilton and Cingrani? Is Quentin worth Corcino?

[corkedbat]

Carlos Quentin would be my top pick.

That said, both he and Willingham are going to cost an awful lot in terms of prospects.

And because of a lack of top-flight guys beyond Hamilton, maybe Corcino and Cingrani, you're going to likely lose one of those. Possibly two.

Is Willingham worth Hamilton and Cingrani? Is Quentin worth Corcino?

As muuch as I'd hate losing them, I'd do Hamilton and Corcino or Cingrani for Willingham. I'd also make a pretty sizeable offer to the Padres for Quentin AND Headley. Hamilton, Corcino and Cingrani are all valuable ieces for the future and I'd like to see the deals get done holding on to them, but Joey needs guys that can get on base in front of him and/or someone who can protect him batting fourth. I'd do what it takes.

I'd go Hesiey, Frazier, one of Ondrusek, Hoover, Simon, Arredondo or Joseph and one or two of Hamilton, Corcino and Cingrani for Quentin and Headly. Still probably not enough though.

(OBP)

3B Chase Headly (.383)
2B Brandon Phillips (.318)
1B Joey Votto (.476)
LF Carlos Quentin (.348 lifetime)
RF Jay Bruce (.335)
CA Ryan Hannigan (.356)/Devin Mesaraco (.309)
CF Drew Stubbs (.300)
SS Zach Cozart (.297)

[camisadelgolf]

As muuch as I'd hate losing them, I'd do Hamilton and Corcino or Cingrani for Willingham. I'd also make a pretty sizeable offer to the Padres for Quentin AND Headley. Hamilton, Corcino and Cingrani are all valuable ieces for the future and I'd like to see the deals get done holding on to them, but Joey needs guys that can get on base in front of him and/or someone who can protect him batting fourth. I'd do what it takes.

I'd go Hesiey, Frazier, one of Ondrusek, Hoover, Simon, Arredondo or Joseph and one or two of Hamilton, Corcino and Cingrani for Quentin and Headly. Still probably not enough though.

3B Chase Headly
2B Brandon Phillips
1B Joey Votto
LF Carlos Quentin
RF Jay Bruce
CA Ryan Hannigan/Devin Mesaraco
CF Drew Stubbs
SS Zach Cozart
That's an awful lot to give up for a year-and-a-half of Headley and half a year of Quentin. It also doesn't account for the increase in salary. But that offer would at least get their attention, I'm sure.

[Kc61]

I'd be amazed if the Reds traded Hamilton in a deal for Willingham or Quentin. I'd be amazed if the Reds traded Hamilton for anybody. He's potentially a force, and potentially a draw. I don't think he'll be traded.

I also would be surprised (not amazed) if the Reds traded Corcino for one of these guys. Reds are focused on pitching, he's probably their best pitching prospect.

Cingrani? I could see him in a deal. Soto? Yeah.

I think DeJesus is a good fit for the Reds who should be on the market. Cingrani and Soto for DeJesus?

[reds44]

Was listening to the radio here yesterday and the "rumor" is the Cubs want somebody to eat 8 million of Soriano's contract over the next two years and a C level prospect for him.

So the Reds would have to pay Soriano 4 million a year and send the Cubs a C level prospect. You're going to have to give up something a lot more than that for Willingham or Quentin.

[OnBaseMachine]

From Ken Rosenthal:


• The Reds want to add a left-handed hitter, according to a rival exec — a move that might seem counter-intuitive, considering that both Joey Votto and Jay Bruce hit from the left side.

The problem is that several of the Reds’ right-handed hitters — Ryan Hanigan, Zack Cozart, Chris Heisey, Drew Stubbs and Ryan Ludwick — are not hitting right-handers well this season.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/trade-season-Philadelphia-Phillies-sellers-buyers-061112

[Kc61]

If Ken Rosenthal thinks it is "counter-intuitive" for the Reds to add a lefty hitter, I'd suggest he might read through the Reds' roster.

Is there another team in MLB with only two left handed hitters (excluding pitchers)?

I'd say counter-intuitive is the wrong word. Instead, I'd use the word OBVIOUS for this particular need. As it was last year.

This fellow DeJesus seems to be such a perfect fit for the Reds right now, I wonder if he's someone they are focused on.

[OesterPoster]

If Ken Rosenthal thinks it is "counter-intuitive" for the Reds to add a lefty hitter, I'd suggest he might read through the Reds' roster.

Is there another team in MLB with only two left handed hitters (excluding pitchers)?

I'd say counter-intuitive is the wrong word. Instead, I'd use the word OBVIOUS for this particular need.

This fellow DeJesus seems to be such a perfect fit for the Reds right now, I wonder if he's someone they are focused on.

What are the Cubs needs in the upper minors? Pitching and pitching?

[DGullett35]

The front office has said that they are all in for 2012 so obviously some move will have to be made. I would love to have Headley but I just don't see the Reds going after a 3rd baseman with Rolen set to return pretty soon. I think that they think a healthy Rolen will be good enough. That leaves Quentin, and Willingham as the best options. Willingham was just signed to a 3 year deal and IMO the Twins are likely to hold onto him because the asking price will be extremely high. Quentin is our best bet and Im sure the Pads are going to want some very good prospects. Id say Hamilton has to be untouchable for a player of Quentins caliber. Everyone one else should be up for grabs. A player I think the Reds would have a shot at is Nick Swisher. He played college bal in C-Bus, and could easily switch from RF to LF. A switch hitter with pop and is kind of like Phillips in that he can hit about every spot in the order. The Yankees need a starter or some bullpen help. The only problem is that they are likely to want major league ready talent or current major leaguers. Would Heisey, one of Ondrusek, Arredondo, or Hoover, and throwing in Corcino for good measure get that done? Maybe even 2 relievers would have to go. JMO but I think they would also want Bailey instead of a reliever. Seems whatever deal Walt is to make is going to cost the Reds. Not making it deep into the playoffs this year could really cost the Reds down the road if alot of guys are given up at the deadline.

[corkedbat]

That's an awful lot to give up for a year-and-a-half of Headley and half a year of Quentin. It also doesn't account for the increase in salary. But that offer would at least get their attention, I'm sure.

It would be a lot to give up and I'd hate to lose Hamilton especially,but at this point I'd be willing to give up a lot to shore up this offense. If you can do it and hang onto Hamilton, more's the beter. I don't want Soriano at any price.

[Kc61]

To shore up the Reds' offense properly will require more than one move. Not saying they will all happen this season. Doubt it. But let's face facts here:

1. Reds have no true lead off hitter. Their lead off hitter has a sub-.300 OBP. Reds need a lead off hitter, preferably left handed since the team's OBP against righties is ridiculously low.

2. Reds have no true cleanup hitter. Or, if Bruce is a cleanup hitter, no true no. 5 hitter. This one probably should be a righty, since Votto and Bruce are lefty.

3. Reds have no lefty bench hitter and the bench is pretty weak generally. Maybe if Ludwick and Heisey were on the bench (with a new guy, see 1 and 2 above, starting) it would be better. But a lefty for the bench would seem a good thing.

So the Reds really need three guys IMO. In-season, 2012, hopefully they get one of them or conceivably two.

[mdccclxix]

If Ken Rosenthal thinks it is "counter-intuitive" for the Reds to add a lefty hitter, I'd suggest he might read through the Reds' roster.

Is there another team in MLB with only two left handed hitters (excluding pitchers)?

I'd say counter-intuitive is the wrong word. Instead, I'd use the word OBVIOUS for this particular need. As it was last year.

This fellow DeJesus seems to be such a perfect fit for the Reds right now, I wonder if he's someone they are focused on.

If it's a left hander they want, the only place for one that makes sense is lead off- and that would mean Dejesus. Otherwise the grade of talent that would bat 6th or 7th in this lineup as a LHB wouldn't be worth it much to acquire, imo. Or, at least, it likely won't get Reds fans all excited like a Willingham or Youkilis would. I'm imagining something between a Fred Lewis and a Laynce Nix level player, which this team still needs, but won't really be that flashy of a pickup. Probably won't cost a Corcino or even close, either. It's good to hear rumor of a LHB being sought, even if it's from a 'rival exec', which often means little.

[Kc61]

If it's a left hander they want, the only place for one that makes sense is lead off- and that would mean Dejesus. Otherwise the grade of talent that would bat 6th or 7th in this lineup as a LHB wouldn't be worth it much to acquire, imo. Or, at least, it likely won't get Reds fans all excited like a Willingham or Youkilis would. I'm imagining something between a Fred Lewis and a Laynce Nix level player, which this team still needs, but won't really be that flashy of a pickup. Probably won't cost a Corcino or even close, either. It's good to hear rumor of a LHB being sought, even if it's from a 'rival exec', which often means little.

Good point. One option, if DeJesus is too rich for them, is for the Reds to pick up a strict platoon LH bat for the outfield and bench. IMO Laynce Nix would add to this team. (Wasn't that happy with Lewis last year, maybe not him.)

Frankly, if the Reds are focused on the cheaper end, I wouldn't mind two lefty pickups. One to platoon in the outfield, and one strictly for the bench.

[mdccclxix]

Some other names with good OBP vs RHP to mull over:

Gerardo Parra L
Dexter Fowler S

[DGullett35]

This was from MLB Trade Rumours a day or two ago:
The Pirates have inquired about a number of corner infield bats, including Kevin Youkilis, Chase Headley, and Bryan LaHair. Some of those targets are more realistic than others, plus the trade market has yet to really materialize. There are far more buyers than sellers, though Pittsburgh has the pitching depth to swing a deal.

Seems as if the Buccos are looking for the same type of pieces we are. I sure would be upset if they were to get one of these guys over us. I would love Lahair or Headley. I say let the Pirates have Youk. IMO hes a glorified Rolen with a slightly better bat. Same type of injury prone player.

[klw]

Not a lefty but Vlad is now available again. Released from his MILB by the BlueJays
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120612&content_id=33164898&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb


The 37-year-old was hitting .314 with a triple, three doubles and four RBIs in eight games with the 51s. Guerrero also posted four homers and eight RBIs in four games with Class-A Dunedin earlier this month.

. Guerrero also has the ability to play some left field but with declining defensive skills it's unlikely the Blue Jays would have wanted to give him anything more than a spot start at that position.

[klw]

Adam Lind update via Fangraphs
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fangraphs-prospect-stock-watch-061212/

Adam Lind, 1B, Toronto Blue Jays
Current Level: AAA
2012 Top 15 Prospects Ranking: Ineligible
Current Value: Improving

Obviously no longer a prospect with parts of seven big league seasons under his belt, Lind has accepted his demotion to triple-A. Apparently out of shape, the first baseman has worked hard to get his conditioning to the level where it needs to be so he can compete at the big league level and he’s seeing results in the box scores too. Lind is currently hitting .416 in 22 games and just went deep twice on Monday night, giving him five home runs. With an OPS of 1.134 Lind could find himself back in the Majors sooner rather than later although he could be an attractive name at the July trade deadline (if the Blue Jays are willing to eat some of his salary). Toronto has a much cheaper option in rookie David Cooper currently providing league-average offense at first base.

[Sabo Fan]

This was from MLB Trade Rumours a day or two ago:
The Pirates have inquired about a number of corner infield bats, including Kevin Youkilis, Chase Headley, and Bryan LaHair. Some of those targets are more realistic than others, plus the trade market has yet to really materialize. There are far more buyers than sellers, though Pittsburgh has the pitching depth to swing a deal.

Seems as if the Buccos are looking for the same type of pieces we are. I sure would be upset if they were to get one of these guys over us. I would love Lahair or Headley. I say let the Pirates have Youk. IMO hes a glorified Rolen with a slightly better bat. Same type of injury prone player.

The time to get Headley was during the Latos negotiations. I'd have tossed Billy Hamilton out there and see how far that went. I think you might have even been able to add another lottery-ticket guy and maybe kept Grandal (or Boxberger at the very least). At this point I think if he's really on the market the Reds will get outbid.

DeJesus makes a ton of sense and I would start the conversation now as Epstein has pretty must put up an "Open for Business" sign. The biggest issue I have is that he could have very easily been a Red this offseason. Just spend a little more than it took to bring in Ludwick (ok so it's double, but what's another $3 million?) Make them take Ludwick back to balance some of the cash, offer LaMarre plus Arrendondo and you've got something cooking.

Oh, and I've mentioned this before, but Ryan Doumit is pretty much a perfect fit as a switch-hitting utility guy & pinch hitter. Can catch play a little OF in a pinch and keep Cairo from having to play 1st on Votto's rare off days. Twins likely won't ask for much and he's pretty cheap. Get DeJesus and Doumit and you've gone along way towards improving the OBP and bench deficiencies that plague this team.

[Tom Servo]

Not a lefty but Vlad is now available again. Released from his MILB by the BlueJays
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120612&content_id=33164898&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
Watching Ludwick tonight...I'd see what Vlad's demands are.

[OesterPoster]

Thinking maybe Mark Teahen would be a cheap lefty option for the bench. Can play LF, RF, 3rd, and 1st, career OPS of .755 against RHP.

From mlbtraderumors:


Mark Teahen can opt-out of his minor league contract with the Nationals if not called up by June 15th, MLBTR has learned. The 30-year-old has hit .293/.347/.404 with Washington's Triple-A affiliate while playing all four corner spots.

[klw]

Okay here is a name I haven't seen as a target but I will throw out there. Pablo Sandoval
He could anchor 3rd for a few years but would probably require a serious commitment in talent. Frazier + ?.
Looks like he is signed through 2014 at reasonable cash.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sandopa01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linkerwhy he may be or become available. Also is a red flag on why to avoid him.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/06/west-links-sandoval-padres-angels.html

No assumptions should be made about the incident, writes Ray Ratto of CSNBayArea.com, but the Giants are growing frustrated with Sandoval's questionable work ethic and are unsure whether he'll be part of their "core in years to come."

[HotCorner]

Didn't the Reds just trade a 3B with "work ethic issues"?

[Benihana]

I'd rather keep Frazier and use the extra talent/money for a cleanup hitting LF.

[CySeymour]

I'd rather keep Frazier and use the extra talent/money for a cleanup hitting LF.

I think I'd just as well have a good leadoff hitter.

[Kc61]

I'd rather keep Frazier and use the extra talent/money for a cleanup hitting LF.

Whether a cleanup hitter or a lead off hitter to be acquired (I prefer a lead off OBP man), I think Frazier has earned a long look at third base. He's done much better than I expected. Indeed, right now, based on current performance, Frazier could hit cleanup or fifth.

Over time, I think Todd will destroy lefties and be less effective against righties. But that may be good enough, third basemen don't grow on trees these days.

With Todd playing so well, the area of decision is clearly the outfield, particularly LF. I agree with Benihana that I would put my efforts in improving the outfield and perhaps a good utility/bench player as well.

[Rojo]

He's done much better than I expected. Indeed, right now, based on current performance, Frazier could hit cleanup or fifth.

Struggling with a Frazier comp. Jim Presley?

[PuffyPig]

Watching Ludwick tonight...I'd see what Vlad's demands are.


I think Vlad demands that he not catch a ball all year.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I think I'd just as well have a good leadoff hitter.

The two go hand in hand for my money. Phillips acquitted himself rather well in that role last year. Get a solid cleanup hitter and Brandon can move back to leading off. The 2 hole has been excellent all season long, so that's not a concern. Phillips is miscast as a 4 hitter clearly. Ideally, we'd just move Jay to 4th and get a solid bat to hit behind him. But we've gotta break up them lefties. ;)

If we DID go after a leadoff hitter, I think we'll see Phillips hitting cleanup all season long.

[Will M]

Struggling with a Frazier comp. Jim Presley?

maybe Wiggington

[reds44]

Wiggington is a good one.

[mth123]

maybe Wiggington

:thumbup:

[camisadelgolf]

In the minor league forum, Frazier was constantly compared to Mark DeRosa. I feel like that's a better comp since Frazier can actually play a little defense, unlike Wiggy.

[DGullett35]

Jeff Francouer is rumored to be on the trading block since KC has a young OF ready to make the jump. What do you all think of Frenchy?

.275 BA, 5 HR, 16 RBI. His OBP is at .314 He does have 63 Hits and 14 doubles. Maybe his power numbers are a reflection of the lineup hes hitting in however KC's lineup really isnt all that bad just really young. Id call and ask what it would take. He could help out in LF and def. could hit 4th in this lineup. I dunno I just really want Walt to make a move to aquire a bat for this team. Maybe Im reaching a bit by mentioning guys like Francoeur.

[pahster]

Jeff Francouer is rumored to be on the trading block since KC has a young OF ready to make the jump. What do you all think of Frenchy?

.275 BA, 5 HR, 16 RBI. His OBP is at .314 He does have 63 Hits and 14 doubles. Maybe his power numbers are a reflection of the lineup hes hitting in however KC's lineup really isnt all that bad just really young. Id call and ask what it would take. He could help out in LF and def. could hit 4th in this lineup. I dunno I just really want Walt to make a move to aquire a bat for this team. Maybe Im reaching a bit by mentioning guys like Francoeur.

You're reaching. Francouer is very bad at hitting. He practically has to hit .300 to approach a league average OBP and his SLG doesn't come close to making up for his phobia of walks. He is, however, generally regarded as a good defensive corner OF, but I'm not convinced the Reds are particularly short on those.

[camisadelgolf]

I think you can do worse than Frenchy, but I don't think he's a great fit for the team's needs. Obtaining him would be like having another Ludwick-type when they actually need a DeJesus-type (high-OBP guy).

[RedEye]

Isn't Francoeur like the worst hitter in baseball?

[Vottomatic]

Mets would never trade Dickey. But what would it take to get him if they would be willing to?

I'm guessing Hamilton, Cingrani, Corcino, Leake or Bailey, Heisey, Gregorius, Lutz. What a freakin' haul that would be.

[traderumor]

Jeff Francouer is rumored to be on the trading block since KC has a young OF ready to make the jump. What do you all think of Frenchy?

.275 BA, 5 HR, 16 RBI. His OBP is at .314 He does have 63 Hits and 14 doubles. Maybe his power numbers are a reflection of the lineup hes hitting in however KC's lineup really isnt all that bad just really young. Id call and ask what it would take. He could help out in LF and def. could hit 4th in this lineup. I dunno I just really want Walt to make a move to aquire a bat for this team. Maybe Im reaching a bit by mentioning guys like Francoeur.He is probably the exact opposite of real help.

[OesterPoster]

A nice "buyers guide" by one of the Phillies reporters...interesting how he ranks Victorino.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/A-buyers-guide-to-the-Philadelphia-Phillies.html


4. Shane Victorino (Level IV): Plenty of teams could use a center fielder who can lead off and hit with decent power, but he will be a free agent at the end of the season.

Level IV - A first division back-of-the-bullpen, strikeout arm or first division middle-of-the-rotation starter who is under control beyond the current season or a first division top-of-the-order hitter who will be a free agent after the season.

Usual asking price: A good, perhaps fringe Top 100 prospect, or a combination that includes two solid prospects (usually among an organization's Top 10).

[Johnny Footstool]

Victorino is very similar to DeJesus, but with a bit more power, a bit more speed, and a bit weaker OBP. I think the asking price would be vastly different, though. DeJesus would be much cheaper to acquire.

[Vottomatic]

Willingham.

[sonny]

Has anyone mentioned Arizona's Jason Kubel? He's pretty consistent and he put up some real good numbers in MIN.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Willingham.

Yep. For a team that supposedly is all in this year, this continues to be a no-brainer.

And $7M a year is pretty darn cheap for his production.

It makes paying Ryan Ludwick $2.5M look pretty silly really.

[757690]

I think Vlad demands that he not catch a ball all year.

Then put him in left field. That demand we likely be met :cool:

[RedsManRick]

Jeff Francouer is rumored to be on the trading block since KC has a young OF ready to make the jump. What do you all think of Frenchy?

Francouer is Heisey with a better arm.

[HotCorner]

I'm back on the Denard Span bandwagon.

[Orenda]

I'm back on the Denard Span bandwagon.

Two other once highly touted guys I'm watching, Eric Young Jr., could be used in a Freel esque utility fashion, speed for days, not much thump but still young, probably needs consistent at bats, probably not a major difference maker but then again, at one point in time I was adamant that Reggie Willits was the answer.

Cameron Maybin was another guy I was thinking could be a buy low but I just noticed SD is already heavily invested in him, I don't remember hearing about that one.

Wish Span had a little more power, but then again, this team has lots of guys with power who can be contact deficient at times, maybe one of the reasons why the offense seems to dissapear

In a weird way, I kind of miss the days when management was throwing stuff at walls to see what stuck. "Well he runs a 4.3, hit's it 450 ft in bp and has a rocket for an arm, we got him off waivers because he's still learning to hit the curveball, we could really have a steal here" and on that note, I would still pay to watch Willy Mo take bp

[mace]

A Fangraphs article today reduces the Reds' urgent needs to center field and left.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/reds-need-center-fielder-and-left-fielder/

"If the Reds want to win this year, Stubbs needs to be reduced to a platoon/defensive replacement role.

And while center fielders are generally at a premium, there may be a decent number of them available this trade season. The Rockies have never been in love with Dexter Fowler, and the return to form by Tyler Colvin may make Fowler expendable if the right offer comes along. Similarly, Trevor Plouffe’s breakout may help coerce the Twins into parting with either Denard Span or Ben Revere. Other possibilities could include Gerardo Parra, B.J. Upton or Shane Victorino."

I've been on the Fowler bandwagon for a while now.

[RedsManRick]

Victorino is very similar to DeJesus, but with a bit more power, a bit more speed, and a bit weaker OBP. I think the asking price would be vastly different, though. DeJesus would be much cheaper to acquire.

You omitted a key difference -- Victorino is a CF, Dejesus isn't. Depending on who you'd like to replace (Stubbs vs. Hesiey/Ludwick), that could be a big deal. Agree with you on the price though.

[Redsfan320]

Just headed over to see if anything was on MLB.tv this afternoon. Only game was Red Sox @ Cubs in the 8th inning, and what's going on? A 12-pitch walk to DeJesus. I want this guy in front of Votto. Please!

Of course, it being the Cubs, Soriano was batting behind him and popped out to short on 1 or 2 pitches. :D

320

[blumj]

No offense, but I think you whiffed on the better punchline, it should be: of course, it being the Cubs, after doing all that work to get on base, he then gets caught trying to steal 2nd.

[RedlegJake]

DeJesus did play some CF for the Royals when he first came up but that was eons ago - he's too slow now, doesn't have the range anymore but he's fine in LF. He has the OBP, he's a professional hitter who doesn't give away at bats, gets on base at a good clip any way possible, has some power which would play up a bit at GAB, and would slide into the leadoff spot like he was born to it. Having him in front of Joey would be sweet.

[Spitball]

I don't think adding DeJesus is worth giving the Cubs anything of value.

[Tom Servo]

Just watched Carlos Quentin knock one out of the park in Oakland. Boy would he look good batting cleanup for the Redlegs.

[757690]

A Fangraphs article today reduces the Reds' urgent needs to center field and left.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/reds-need-center-fielder-and-left-fielder/

"If the Reds want to win this year, Stubbs needs to be reduced to a platoon/defensive replacement role.

And while center fielders are generally at a premium, there may be a decent number of them available this trade season. The Rockies have never been in love with Dexter Fowler, and the return to form by Tyler Colvin may make Fowler expendable if the right offer comes along. Similarly, Trevor Plouffe’s breakout may help coerce the Twins into parting with either Denard Span or Ben Revere. Other possibilities could include Gerardo Parra, B.J. Upton or Shane Victorino."

I've been on the Fowler bandwagon for a while now.

I love Fangraphs and admire Cameron. But the other guys who write these articles on his site really give the site a bad reputation. This is just another article that ignores what can be learned from watching the player play and relies soley on what is on the stat sheet.

What made Fangraphs and Cameron different from the rest of the sabermetric sites is that it incorporated a synthesis of scouting and stats. That seems to be lost on its junior writers.

Ignoring what it misses on its analysis of Stubbs' offense, this article misses that Stubbs has turned a corner defensively and has finally become a premier defensive center fielder. The stats don't show it yet, skewed by small sample size, but anyone watching him can see the value he has defensively and how having him in CF everyday is an important part of the Reds future success.

[Kc61]

I love Fangraphs and admire Cameron. But the other guys who write these articles on his site really give the site a bad reputation. This is just another article that ignores what can be learned from watching the player play and relies soley on what is on the stat sheet.

What made Fangraphs and Cameron different from the rest of the sabermetric sites is that it incorporated a synthesis of scouting and stats. That seems to be lost on its junior writers.

Ignoring what it misses on its analysis of Stubbs' offense, this article misses that Stubbs has turned a corner defensively and has finally become a premier defensive center fielder. The stats don't show it yet, skewed by small sample size, but anyone watching him can see the value he has defensively and how having him in CF everyday is an important part of the Reds future success.

I think Stubbs is overused by the Reds, that he should have a partner in centerfield, that with the current personnel Heisey should play a bunch of games in CF, even when Stubbs is healthy. I think it was a mistake to allow Stubbs to have 600 plus at bats last year and about 680 plate appearances.

No problem with him on the team, he is their best defensive CF and has improved a lot this year. But he just doesn't make enough contact. For Stubbs to get up almost 700 times in a season doesn't make sense IMO.

Use him against lefties and against some righties. But have another player, who makes better contact, play a chunk of the schedule in CF, particularly against tougher right handed pitchers.

[757690]

I think Stubbs is overused by the Reds, that he should have a partner in centerfield, that with the current personnel Heisey should play a bunch of games in CF, even when Stubbs is healthy. I think it was a mistake to allow Stubbs to have 600 plus at bats last year and about 680 plate appearances.

No problem with him on the team, he is their best defensive CF and has improved a lot this year. But he just doesn't make enough contact. For Stubbs to get up almost 700 times in a season doesn't make sense IMO.

Use him against lefties and against some righties. But have another player, who makes better contact, play a chunk of the schedule in CF, particularly against tougher right handed pitchers.

Heisey really isn't any better offensively than Stubbs, I'd actually say worse. And definitely worse defensively.

Stubbs has been back to close to his 2010 self after the first two weeks of the season. He's a 25 HR, 100 RS, .725+ OPS premier defensive CF. I want that everyday, regardless of his splits.

And you really aren't going to get much better than that via a trade, without giving up serious talent.

[Kc61]

Heisey really isn't any better offensively than Stubbs, I'd actually say worse. And definitely worse defensively.

Stubbs has been back to close to his 2010 self after the first two weeks of the season. He's a 25 HR, 100 RS, .725+ OPS premier defensive CF. I want that everyday, regardless of his splits.

And you really aren't going to get much better than that via a trade, without giving up serious talent.

Watch Stubbs hit. He cannot foul off the two strike pitch. His K rate is a little better so far this year, but if exposed to all kinds of pitching, there's a risk he could have close to 200 Ks again. He has never had 25 homers or 100 runs scored; he has had 200 strikeouts.

I'm not saying to send him down, or not play him. I'm saying that he should sit against the tougher right handers.

They don't need an all-star to share CF with Stubbs, just somebody who can make contact against RHP and play a share of the games out there. Over time, presumably Stubbs will improve (maybe) and win back a full time job.

Heisey is the current alternative, given the roster, and I would give Chris more playing time in CF, Stubbs a bit less.

[mth123]

I'm with KC. I take it a step further though. Stubbs is a 5th OF who plays defense, pinch runs and gets his starts against LHP. On the Reds he needs to play more than that because they have no alternatives, but it doesn't make him better than he really is. He's just too easy for a RH to pitch to.

[mth123]

Heisey really isn't any better offensively than Stubbs, I'd actually say worse. And definitely worse defensively.

Stubbs has been back to close to his 2010 self after the first two weeks of the season. He's a 25 HR, 100 RS, .725+ OPS premier defensive CF. I want that everyday, regardless of his splits.

And you really aren't going to get much better than that via a trade, without giving up serious talent.

Stubbs is exactly 100 OPS points below his 2010 number. I'd imagine that's roughly where he'll end up and probably stay for his career. I'd really be surprised if he ever has another season with an OPS above .700 unless they start seriously limiting his exposure to RHP. He's a real asset against LHP.

As for Heisey, he's only slightly better if any. IMO, Heisey is the perfect 4th OF and Stubbs is a good 5th OF. The team needs a 2nd and 3rd OF IMO. Frazier may be part of that answer.

[dman]

I don't get around to posting on here much anymore, and I don't have nearly 1/4 of the baseball intellect that some of you other folks have, but one thing that I wanted to ask that I've been pondering is do the Reds really need to make a trade move at all for another OF? As exciting and fresh as 2010 is in our memories, does everyone still remember the difference that acquiring Jim Edmonds made in turning around Jay Bruce that year, and to a smaller extent, Drew Stubbs? It may or may not have had anything to do with getting Edmonds, but the circumstantial evidence points that way. How about the Reds just bring him on in a coaching capacity to work with the talent that's already in place?

[OesterPoster]

I don't get around to posting on here much anymore, and I don't have nearly 1/4 of the baseball intellect that some of you other folks have, but one thing that I wanted to ask that I've been pondering is do the Reds really need to make a trade move at all for another OF? As exciting and fresh as 2010 is in our memories, does everyone still remember the difference that acquiring Jim Edmonds made in turning around Jay Bruce that year, and to a smaller extent, Drew Stubbs? It may or may not have had anything to do with getting Edmonds, but the circumstantial evidence points that way. How about the Reds just bring him on in a coaching capacity to work with the talent that's already in place?

Pretty sure he burned the Brent-Spence bridge when he left Cinci and his comments about Doc Hollywood and the Reds medical staff.

[Gallen5862]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Nationals Designate Brad Lidge For Assignment
By Zach Links [June 17 at 10:50am CST]
The Nationals designated Brad Lidge for assignment, according to Amanda Comak of the Washington Times (via Twitter). Lidge has appeared in just 9.1 innings this year, allowing ten runs with ten strikeouts and eleven walks.

The reliever known as "Lights Out" gave up a two-run double to Mark Teixeira in the 14th inning of yesterday's 5-3 loss to the Yankees. Lidge had just recently come off of a stint on the DL which kept him out of action from late April until June 8th.

[Gallen5862]

Is Brad Lidge worth a look? He could possibly help the Reds bullpen depth.

[membengal]

Is Brad Lidge worth a look? He could possibly help the Reds bullpen depth.

Isn't the Reds bullpen pretty darn deep...especially with Bray close and Massett lurking?

And doesn't Lidge smell like feet?

[reds44]

Stubbs is exactly 100 OPS points below his 2010 number. I'd imagine that's roughly where he'll end up and probably stay for his career. I'd really be surprised if he ever has another season with an OPS above .700 unless they start seriously limiting his exposure to RHP. He's a real asset against LHP.

As for Heisey, he's only slightly better if any. IMO, Heisey is the perfect 4th OF and Stubbs is a good 5th OF. The team needs a 2nd and 3rd OF IMO. Frazier may be part of that answer.
I think Stubbs still has trade value at this point in his career. Heisey, does not, which is why I'm all for dealing Stubbs for a LFer and playing Heisey in CF.

[Vottomatic]

I think Stubbs still has trade value at this point in his career. Heisey, does not, which is why I'm all for dealing Stubbs for a LFer and playing Heisey in CF.

Padres aren't going anywhere, Quentin is a righthanded power hitting FA at the end of the season and would solve the cleanup spot. Padres are becoming the West Coast Reds anyway after the Latos trade. Why not another?

I hate overpaying, but how 'bout Stubbs straight up for Quentin? Would it take more for a rental?

[mth123]

Padres aren't going anywhere, Quentin is a righthanded power hitting FA at the end of the season and would solve the cleanup spot. Padres are becoming the West Coast Reds anyway after the Latos trade. Why not another?

I hate overpaying, but how 'bout Stubbs straight up for Quentin? Would it take more for a rental?

True about Quentin being a rental, but I think there is going to be a bidding war for him and Stubbs ain't enough.

[757690]

True about Quentin being a rental, but I think there is going to be a bidding war for him and Stubbs ain't enough.

Any player traded at this years deadline will be traded for minor league prospects, not a 27 three year veteran. It's not that Stubbs isn't enough (he's a big overpay, IMO) it's that that type of player isn't what rebuilding teams want.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Any player traded at this years deadline will be traded for minor league prospects, not a 27 three year veteran. It's not that Stubbs isn't enough (he's a big overpay, IMO) it's that that type of player isn't what rebuilding teams want.

But they could certainly use someone like Stubbs in that mammoth outfield in Petco Park. And if Stubbs could put the ball into play there, he could run for ages.

[M2]

Isn't the Reds bullpen pretty darn deep...especially with Bray close and Massett lurking?

And doesn't Lidge smell like feet?

I'm with you on Lidge. I don't see the point there.

Though the guy who might be deepening the Reds bullpen in the not too distant future is Donnie Joseph.

[WrongVerb]

Could Carlos Gonzalez come available (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/06/sherman-on-dempster-lee-gonzalez.html)?


Though there’s no indication that Cliff Lee and Carlos Gonzalez are available, Sherman makes the case that their respective clubs should consider trades for them this summer. Lee, who has a nine-team no-trade list, would appeal to a number of contenders, and Gonzalez would draw considerable interest in a trade market that currently features few impact hitters.

Drool.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Could Carlos Gonzalez come available (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/06/sherman-on-dempster-lee-gonzalez.html)?



Drool.

This would be Christmas, New Year's Eve and St. Patrick's Day rolled into one. I'd drive to Denver to pick him up - and pay for the gas myself. Seriously though, do we have anything close to enough in our system that could pry him loose from the Rox? They are severely pitching-starved, so any discussion is going to have to start with either Bailey or Leake and go from there.

Bailey, Corcino, Stubbs and Hamilton?

I really can't think of a better player to plug into this lineup than Cargo ...

[Benihana]

Could Carlos Gonzalez come available (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/06/sherman-on-dempster-lee-gonzalez.html)?



Drool.

Any deal for CarGo would have to start with Bruce for multiple reasons.

If the Reds could somehow pull something off, without giving up Votto, Bruce, Latos or Cueto, I'd do it- almost whatever they wanted.

How about Corcino, Stephenson, Hamilton and Stubbs for CarGo and Fowler? Sub Leake or Bailey for one of the minor league arms if necessary.

[Benihana]

This would be Christmas, New Year's Eve and St. Patrick's Day rolled into one. I'd drive to Denver to pick him up - and pay for the gas myself. Seriously though, do we have anything close to enough in our system that could pry him loose from the Rox? They are severely pitching-starved, so any discussion is going to have to start with either Bailey or Leake and go from there.

Bailey, Corcino, Stubbs and Hamilton?

I really can't think of a better player to plug into this lineup than Cargo ...

Not fair! You edited that proposal in after I posted it :p

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Not fair! You edited that proposal in after I posted it :p

:D After careful consideration, I threw in my proposal, though I doubt it would be enough to even get the Rockies to stay on the phone. That team is in such disarray that if they're even thinking about trading Cargo, they're going to need players who are locks to make an impact.

[Playadlc]

Colorado desperately needs pitching. There starting rotation is a complete and utter disaster at the moment.

I can't see them trading CarGo without getting an MLB ready arm.

Chapman, Corcino and Stubbs may get it done.

[Benihana]

Colorado desperately needs pitching. There starting rotation is a complete and utter disaster at the moment.

I can't see them trading CarGo without getting an MLB ready arm.

Chapman, Corcino and Stubbs may get it done.

That would be an interesting discussion. If the Reds aren't sure about Chapman's future as a starter, they should be willing to pull the trigger on that one.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Colorado desperately needs pitching. There starting rotation is a complete and utter disaster at the moment.

I can't see them trading CarGo without getting an MLB ready arm.

Chapman, Corcino and Stubbs may get it done.

Cringe.

Substitute Bailey, Leake, Hamilton or anyone else in the minors and I pull the trigger immediately.