PDA

View Full Version : Trade Targets



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

Vottomatic
05-04-2012, 04:09 PM
I tend to look at the teams with pathetic losing records, figuring that they might be willing to give up one of their better players if they netted several good players in return to help them rebuild.

Minnesota is pathetic. So how about Denard Span? Dude always has a high OBP (currently .377), and decent average (currently .327). He stole 26 bases 2 years ago. Not sure if he was injured last year as he only played in 70 games. I know Drew Stubbs can steal a base too, but he doesn't get on base like Span does. Maybe trade Stubbs AND a quality prospect and we get our new leadoff man. 28 years old and a 1st round pick back in 2002.

Kansas City is pathetic too and needs alot of parts. Alex Gordon? He's struggling right now but had a solid season last year in 151 games (23 HR's, .303 average). Another lefthanded bat.

Will M
05-04-2012, 04:16 PM
Span had a bad concussion last year. it ruined his season. it looks like he is recovered. he would be a great fit for the Reds. LH bat with high OBP. Stubbs for Span makes the team better (i think).

M2
05-04-2012, 04:28 PM
Span supposedly is on the block and it's hard to imagine the Twins could say no to anyone who vaguely resembles as starting pitcher.

Kc61
05-04-2012, 04:57 PM
As a secondary type target, not a world beater, but would fit the Reds in LF for a year or two, was thinking Melky Cabrera.

Switch hitter, frequently (not always) posts a decent OBP. Maybe Heisey and a medium prospect.

Span would be great for the Reds, I'd really like to see that move.

OesterPoster
05-04-2012, 04:58 PM
Too funny. I went through this same process this morning, and the first name I noticed was Denard Span too. Josh Willingham was another one that caught my eye.

Torii Hunter is another name I noticed, but I can't imagine the Angels dumping him, even if they're way out of it.

TOBTTReds
05-04-2012, 05:39 PM
Span isn't super cheap. But, he may be that leadoff guy we haven't had in a long time. If the Reds take all the salary, then we don't need to offer much more than Stubbs.

■10:$0.75M, 11:$1M, 12:$3M, 13:$4.75M, 14:$6.5M, 15:$9M club option ($0.5M buyout)

TOBTTReds
05-04-2012, 05:40 PM
Willingham comes in at $7m a year, for 2 more seasons. I just don't see that happening w/out some extra cash flow.

Hunter has no trade rights...and is getting paid a ton this year ($18m), so the Angels would have to pay a lot of the pro-rated contract still.

Don't mean to throw a wet blanket on these guys.

HokieRed
05-04-2012, 05:56 PM
Span isn't super cheap. But, he may be that leadoff guy we haven't had in a long time. If the Reds take all the salary, then we don't need to offer much more than Stubbs.

■10:$0.75M, 11:$1M, 12:$3M, 13:$4.75M, 14:$6.5M, 15:$9M club option ($0.5M buyout)

Too long, too expensive.

Brutus
05-04-2012, 05:57 PM
I'd be on board with Span. I don't think the combination of Ludwick-Heisey is as bad as people think, but I also believe a high OBP guy at the top of the order would do the Reds wonders right now. It would be worth the upgrade for sure.

If memory serves me correctly, though, the Twins have been asking for the moon in past attempts for teams to acquire him.

RedsManRick
05-04-2012, 06:11 PM
Span is another guy who has only had good years during seasons with an unsustainably high BABIP. While I know some players can sustain high BABIPs, I would want to acquire somebody on the assumption they'll maintain it unless they've done so consistently -- which Span hasn't.

buckeyenut
05-04-2012, 06:23 PM
Span isn't super cheap. But, he may be that leadoff guy we haven't had in a long time. If the Reds take all the salary, then we don't need to offer much more than Stubbs.

■10:$0.75M, 11:$1M, 12:$3M, 13:$4.75M, 14:$6.5M, 15:$9M club option ($0.5M buyout)

I would be all for sending them Heisey and a couple of minor leaguers for Span and putting him in LF and leadoff. Then I would alternate Stubbs (when he is hot) and Cozart in the two hole or could let BP do it. I think this engine starts to purr with a big OBP guy in front of it.

edabbs44
05-04-2012, 06:26 PM
Too long, too expensive.

That's what Linder said.

Oh, she also said it.

Brutus
05-04-2012, 07:03 PM
Span is another guy who has only had good years during seasons with an unsustainably high BABIP. While I know some players can sustain high BABIPs, I would want to acquire somebody on the assumption they'll maintain it unless they've done so consistently -- which Span hasn't.

Span has incredibly high rates of ground balls and line drives. Because of that, his BABIP isn't really that unsustainable.

In fact, his career BABIP is .324, while his career xBABIP is about .322. So I have to conclude that his .337 career OBP is where it should be.

marcshoe
05-04-2012, 07:18 PM
Willingham occurred to me as well. I think he could make a major difference in this lineup. I no longer even remotely understand how the Reds payroll works, if I ever did.

And if your looking at pitching, which is always a good idea, there's always the too-expensive Wandy Rodriguez, getting off to a very good start. If you could convince Houston to pick up a big chunk of his contract, of course, which is a questionable proposition.

Benihana
05-04-2012, 07:43 PM
Span is another guy who has only had good years during seasons with an unsustainably high BABIP. While I know some players can sustain high BABIPs, I would want to acquire somebody on the assumption they'll maintain it unless they've done so consistently -- which Span hasn't.

The last time Span had an OPS above .700 was three years ago, so I'm not sure how he is a big improvement over the status quo.

I still think a deal for Seth Smith and one of the A's bullpen arms (Grant Balfour) is plausible and would help the Reds in more ways than one, as it would provide a real lefty bat for LF (and Heisey could play CF) against righties, and it would give the Reds the flexibility to move Chapman into the rotation without dropping off in the 'pen.

I would think Bailey by himself could be enough to fetch those two (Chapman would replace him in the rotation) or if the A's preferred a target like Gregorius, I'd be OK with that too.

Dan
05-04-2012, 10:47 PM
Span is a target. So is Snider from Toronto and Parra from Arizona. Not sure if I trade anyone in the rotation for them though.

DGullett35
05-05-2012, 02:42 PM
Span could be that leadoff hitter that this team needs badly. Im sure a starting pitcher would have to be included in a deal for him since Minn. suffers horribly with their rotation.

Coco Crisps numbers look horrible to start 2012 and I know he just signed a new contract but he was someone I was hoping the Reds would have targeted coming into 2012. He plays great D and has stolen over 80 bases the last 2 years. His OBP has went down every year since '08 tho. He could have been a good 4th OF and could have split time with Brandon in the leadoff spot. It looks like Span would be the best fit

Tom Servo
05-05-2012, 02:57 PM
Span is a target. So is Snider from Toronto and Parra from Arizona. Not sure if I trade anyone in the rotation for them though.
Parra would be a pretty good target. Arizona already has Kubel, Young (though he is on the DL at the moment) and Upton in the outfield with AJ Pollock lurking, I don't think the D'Backs would demand the farm in terms trade value.

MikeS21
05-05-2012, 05:39 PM
Would not do Span for Stubbs. Why fix the hole in LF, if you create a hole in CF? And no, Heisey is not the answer ...

mth123
05-05-2012, 06:06 PM
Would not do Span for Stubbs. Why fix the hole in LF, if you create a hole in CF? And no, Heisey is not the answer ...

Unless you think Span in CF is an upgrade to Stubbs. I think so, but not a huge upgrade. Span has a bad contract and the only deal I'd make for him would be a minor leaguer like say Soto for him. Span could help if he could be had for little going back the other way and the Twins would take on some of his deal.

mth123
05-05-2012, 07:24 PM
I wonder if the Pirates would deal Garrett Jones. He's the kind of LH platoon journeyman who could really help this team and could probably be had for some of the flawed prospects the Reds have in the high minors. Maybe Soto and Lamarre or something like that would interest them. Heck I'd give them 2 of Soto, Frazier, Gregorious, Phipps and Lamarre. I'd sub Heisey for Frazier but probably wouldn't give both Frazier and Heisey for him.

Dan
05-06-2012, 07:30 AM
Let me throw one more name out there for consideration as a cleanup hitter...Billy Butler. The questions are...for what would the royals trade him and could he play left field?

Scrap Irony
05-06-2012, 08:30 AM
Let me throw one more name out there for consideration as a cleanup hitter...Billy Butler. The questions are...for what would the royals trade him and could he play left field?

Nice one there, Dan.

I'd guess some combination of a starter and a couple decent prospects gets it done.

Leake or Bailey, Soto, and Sulburan gets it done, IMO.

Sabo Fan
05-06-2012, 09:36 AM
Nice one there, Dan.

I'd guess some combination of a starter and a couple decent prospects gets it done.

Leake or Bailey, Soto, and Sulburan gets it done, IMO.

Does Leake have the trade value to bring back a Span, Butler, etc? Last night's outing was encouraging, but it was against the Pirates, so there's that. I just feel like he's not going to fetch you much and at this point and I don't think that trading Bailey is a good idea, he's finally showing what he's capable of and in Cueto, Latos, and Bailey this organization has three nice young starters to build around. I don't want to bust that up at this point.

Moving Bailey results in a lateral move at best with the downgrade you'd have in the rotation. Packaging Leake with a couple B prospects is fine by me if that's the route you want to go, I'm just not sure it's going to be able to bring that impact bat back in return.

I still think Martin Prado is a good target, but Atlanta would probably want a lot in return, I know I would. He'd fit in perfectly though, capable of playing LF and spelling Rolen at 3B then moving there permanently next season. I don't know what his contact situation is but that doesn't seem to deter this franchise much recently so I say go for it.

Vottomatic
05-06-2012, 09:56 AM
My fear is with all the publicity out there about Hamilton, that any trade the Reds try and make, they will be harassed to trade Hamilton. Just say no.

kbrake
05-06-2012, 10:01 AM
I'm pretty comfortable that Hamilton is off limits and everyone around the league knows it.

Vottomatic
05-06-2012, 10:04 AM
I'm pretty comfortable that Hamilton is off limits and everyone around the league knows it.

My off limits in the farm system are Hamilton, Cingrani, Corcino, and Lutz.

DGullett35
05-06-2012, 10:13 AM
Butler has only played 6 games in his career in the Of and all of them were in LF. He did have one E in those 6 games. However that was back in 2007. I like Butler. The guy is strong as an ox and hits a ton of doubles. Good BA too. Id look into it. Hes bascically a DH for KC with Hosmer manning first and I think they could or would part with him. I just dont know how the defense side of things would work out. He's a pretty big guy, and he doesn't look to be that mobile.

Cody Ross looks very good early in the season. He has 5HR and 15RBI, and is batting almost .270..If GM's only could know what they know now. Another guy to maybe look at would be Juan Rivera. Hes gotten off to a slow start but was pretty good for LA last year, and he can hit in the middle of the lineup. I think he would be at the very least slightly better than Ludwick is at this point.

_Sir_Charles_
05-06-2012, 10:13 AM
I've got to admit, I'd have to consider selling extremely high on Hamilton RIGHT NOW. I'm fairly certain we all know his bat isn't what he's currently showing and that he'll come back to earth. I'm also bothered by all the talk of moving him to center. His value falls off a cliff if he's moved off of short IMO. He's extremely fast, but other than that I think we'd be foolish to not try to capitalize on all his current press.

DGullett35
05-06-2012, 10:15 AM
How much could you get in return for a guy in A ball? Id hold on to him, but I do agree that he should stay at short.

Scrap Irony
05-06-2012, 10:44 AM
Does Leake have the trade value to bring back a Span, Butler, etc?

I'm guessing other GMs will look at Leake's season last year, his youth, and his small contract. That, as a league average pitcher with the ceiling for a low #2, has tons of value.

I could actually see a Leake-for-Butler deal straight up. But, to get it done quickly, the Reds may have to add in Sulburan (who's ceiling will intrigue) and Soto (who's very young and blocked).

Butler has a great contract and is only 26 right now. Career 120 OPS+, fwiw. Stick him in LF and let Heisey and Stubbs platoon in CF. Ludwick becomes the fourth OF and backup behind both LF and RF. Butler's DH in intraleague games and plays 15 games or so as Votto's backup at 1B.

Phillips 2B
Cozart SS
Votto 1B
Butler LF
Bruce RF
Rolen/ Frazier 3B
Heisey/ Stubbs CF
Mesoraco/ Hanigan C

That lineup strikes me as remarkably good. Defensively, they'll take a big hit, but, with great gloves everywhere else, it's worth it, IMO.

lollipopcurve
05-06-2012, 10:51 AM
Butler is a great target theoretically, but there's no way he can play LF. I don't see it happening.

Scrap Irony
05-06-2012, 11:08 AM
Butler is a great target theoretically, but there's no way he can play LF. I don't see it happening.

He couldn't be any worse than Alonso.

_Sir_Charles_
05-06-2012, 11:16 AM
How much could you get in return for a guy in A ball? Id hold on to him, but I do agree that he should stay at short.

Personally, I'd highly consider swapping him for another minor leaguer. A left-handed outfield power bat with high plate discipline.

A Wil Myers perhaps? He's RH, but the Royals have him and Bubba Starling as high end OF prospects. They might be takers.

Brett Jackson? Another solid possibility.

lollipopcurve
05-06-2012, 11:23 AM
He couldn't be any worse than Alonso.

He could. Reds won't play a defensive disaster in the field, either. It would have to be Votto moving to LF. And I doubt that would be discussed seriously.

757690
05-06-2012, 11:28 AM
He couldn't be any worse than Alonso.

Who the Reds traded because he couldn't play left field.

DGullett35
05-06-2012, 11:35 AM
I'm guessing other GMs will look at Leake's season last year, his youth, and his small contract. That, as a league average pitcher with the ceiling for a low #2, has tons of value.

I could actually see a Leake-for-Butler deal straight up. But, to get it done quickly, the Reds may have to add in Sulburan (who's ceiling will intrigue) and Soto (who's very young and blocked).

Butler has a great contract and is only 26 right now. Career 120 OPS+, fwiw. Stick him in LF and let Heisey and Stubbs platoon in CF. Ludwick becomes the fourth OF and backup behind both LF and RF. Butler's DH in intraleague games and plays 15 games or so as Votto's backup at 1B.

Phillips 2B
Cozart SS
Votto 1B
Butler LF
Bruce RF
Rolen/ Frazier 3B
Heisey/ Stubbs CF
Mesoraco/ Hanigan C

That lineup strikes me as remarkably good. Defensively, they'll take a big hit, but, with great gloves everywhere else, it's worth it, IMO.

I like the look of that lineup also. Defensively, the only position that would take a hit would be LF. As I said before Butler has only played 6 games at LF in his big league career and all 6 were in '07. I say get this deal done. The Royals are going nowhere and could use some pitching

mth123
05-06-2012, 12:13 PM
I like the Prado idea, but for he life of me, I can't figure what the Braves would want from the Reds. The only spot where the Reds are clearly better is 1B. The Braves have better pitching in the rotation and the back of the pen. The Reds have a deeper pen, but that would assume Masset and Bray are healthy. The Braves have pitching in the pipeline superior to anything the Reds could offer and the Braves, with Hinske, Diaz, Wilson, Ross and Francisco have a far superior bench.

If I thought Butler could play in the OF (I just don't really know) a Leake for Butler deal would make sense. I'd probably add Heisey and Sulbaran to get Jose Mijares and Jarrod Dyson in the deal as well.

I just don't see the Reds having the goods to get something major without making a hole elsewhere. I think focusing on role players who can fortify a weak area (like lefty bat) for more expendable pieces is a better plan. I like the idea of these guys:

1. Seth Smith
2. Garrett Jones
3. Bryan Lahair
4. David Dejesus
5. Denard Span
6. Travis Snider
7. Daniel Murphy

I just don't see the Reds being able to make a deal for Headley, Prado, Butler or other major players without causing other problems on the roster. For the guys above, I'd focus on dealing guys like Heisey or Fazier, Soto, Gregorious, Sulbaran, Phipps, and guys of that ilk. I'd deal Hamilton, but like others have said, we may not get full return at this point. I'd probably resist dealing Lutz or Corcino but would in the right deal.

Vottomatic
05-07-2012, 04:26 PM
If you're willing to dig into the triple A ranks, the Dodgers have Andy Van Slyke's kid, Scott Van Slyke (left fielder) hitting .330, 8 HR's, .406 OBP, .626 SLG, 1.032 OPS. Had similar numbers all last season.

Vottomatic
05-07-2012, 04:59 PM
Another triple A guy in the Arizona farm system is Adam Eaton of Springfield, OH (Dayton) who went to Miami U.

Dude turns 24 this year. Has never hit under .300 in the minors in 2 previous seasons, and has already advanced to triple A and is currently hitting .356. He's 5'-8"/185 lbs. He did hit 10 HR's last season while stealing 34 bases. Posted a 2010 OBP of .500 in 68 games. Posted an OBP of .434 in 121 games in 2011. Thinking about him as a leadoff guy. Dude hits for average and gets on base (72 walks in 2011). High OBP guy who hits for average (.385 in 2010, .318 in 2011).

Be an interesting target to trade for. What does 'Zona need?

RedlegJake
05-07-2012, 04:59 PM
He couldn't be any worse than Alonso.

Scrap, I've witnessed Butler's play many times. Trust me on this - he CAN play left worse than ALonso and would. Worse than Dunn, worse than well, think Dave Kinmgman defensively. He's that bad in the field. He is so bad he can't play ANY position even haphazardly. Butler is the worst major league defensive player I've ever personally seen. (But he is an absolute natural at the plate)

Rojo
05-07-2012, 05:43 PM
Stubbs and Cozart are killing the ball in the 2 hole but biting it big in lead off. David DeJesus has a lifetime 364 OBP in the lead off spot.

Sabo Fan
05-07-2012, 06:03 PM
I'm guessing other GMs will look at Leake's season last year, his youth, and his small contract. That, as a league average pitcher with the ceiling for a low #2, has tons of value.

I could actually see a Leake-for-Butler deal straight up. But, to get it done quickly, the Reds may have to add in Sulburan (who's ceiling will intrigue) and Soto (who's very young and blocked).

I guess it comes down to the fact that you and I have differing opinions on what Leake's value is. I see him as a #4 with a shot to be a lower-tier #3 if everything breaks right. Even then, with his arsenal and velocity I feel like he has to be perfect everytime out to be successful. I don't want a guy who has that little room for error.

I just don't know how much of an improvement on the Ludwick/Heisey combo Leake can bring back in return. Right now they'd be selling low but realistically I don't know if even at peak value Leake brings back anything close to a middle-of-the-order bat. Maybe offer a Leake/Soto combo around and see what comes back, but I think you'd be disappointed with the results.

This is all pretty much just wishful thinking anyway, I doubt there's a significant move made to improve the offense this year, there just aren't any openings. Short of Rolen abruptly retiring he's the 3B for the rest of this year and after investing $3 million in Ludwick I doubt they'd just cut bait on him. Sure you could try to move Stubbs but last I checked there aren't a lot of good hit/good field CFers who teams are willing to deal so you'd be forced to overpay.

Scrap Irony
05-07-2012, 07:36 PM
In 26 2011 starts, Leake had an ERA+ of 101.

At this point in his career, he most closely resembles Kevin Millwood, Freddy Garcia, Brad Penny, Livan Hernandez, Kerry Wood, and Mike Torrez, among others.

That's near ace level at his ceiling, with multiple All-Star appearances.

He's 23 and likely to improve a great deal.

RedlegJake
05-07-2012, 08:21 PM
I'd try to nab Scott Van Slyke from the Dodgers. He's the real deal, imo. As such I think he'd be expensive but I also think he'd be doable. The Dodgers need a first baseman for the future and Soto is blocked here. He'd start the package. Heisey would be next as Van Slyke would take his spot. Chris would be better than anyone the Dodgers have for left right now. That still wouldn't be enough so I'd add Leake. The Dodgers have Harang pitching poorly right now and no one really available if a starter gets hurt. There are strong 1-4 but Harang as #5 is a weakness and there is no depth if someone is injured. The Dodgers could add a high/low A arm to even up the deal bit at that point. The Reds get a talented left fielder for the future who can step in immediately and eventually become an ideal #3 or 4 hitter, the Dodgers get their first baseman of the future, their left fielder for now and a capable starter to backup their rotation and deepen their staff. As a secondary target if Van Slyke couldn't be had I'd dangle a similar deal for Eaton.

Patrick Bateman
05-07-2012, 08:35 PM
I'd try to nab Scott Van Slyke from the Dodgers. He's the real deal, imo. As such I think he'd be expensive but I also think he'd be doable. The Dodgers need a first baseman for the future and Soto is blocked here. He'd start the package. Heisey would be next as Van Slyke would take his spot. Chris would be better than anyone the Dodgers have for left right now. That still wouldn't be enough so I'd add Leake. The Dodgers have Harang pitching poorly right now and no one really available if a starter gets hurt. There are strong 1-4 but Harang as #5 is a weakness and there is no depth if someone is injured. The Dodgers could add a high/low A arm to even up the deal bit at that point. The Reds get a talented left fielder for the future who can step in immediately and eventually become an ideal #3 or 4 hitter, the Dodgers get their first baseman of the future, their left fielder for now and a capable starter to backup their rotation and deepen their staff. As a secondary target if Van Slyke couldn't be had I'd dangle a similar deal for Eaton.

What?

From what I've read he's essentially universally regarded as not being one of the Dodger's top 15 prospects. He's a LF with mediocre plate discipline and hasn't showed plus power despite his size. His current year and prior year stats are great, but remember he's 25 (on 26) and in the PCL league. I would think Heisey would have more trade value than him, let alone adding in a roation worthy starter that has already had major league success, and a prospect that is regarded probably in the same vein, if not higher than Van Slyke.

M2
05-07-2012, 09:45 PM
Billy Butler's brief spell in LF in 2007 has become the stuff of legend. He was atrocious. You would do better having him sing the national anthem and sticking Roseanne Barr in LF.

Though he might help the team win a sponsorship from the Armour company, as he looks like a walking Vienna sausage.

LoganBuck
05-07-2012, 09:55 PM
The last time Span had an OPS above .700 was three years ago, so I'm not sure how he is a big improvement over the status quo.

I still think a deal for Seth Smith and one of the A's bullpen arms (Grant Balfour) is plausible and would help the Reds in more ways than one, as it would provide a real lefty bat for LF (and Heisey could play CF) against righties, and it would give the Reds the flexibility to move Chapman into the rotation without dropping off in the 'pen.

I would think Bailey by himself could be enough to fetch those two (Chapman would replace him in the rotation) or if the A's preferred a target like Gregorius, I'd be OK with that too.

I think it was established somewhere this offseason that the As have interest in Heisey. You probably have to start there, to get anything out of Oakland.

RedlegJake
05-07-2012, 10:06 PM
What?

From what I've read he's essentially universally regarded as not being one of the Dodger's top 15 prospects. He's a LF with mediocre plate discipline and hasn't showed plus power despite his size. His current year and prior year stats are great, but remember he's 25 (on 26) and in the PCL league. I would think Heisey would have more trade value than him, let alone adding in a roation worthy starter that has already had major league success, and a prospect that is regarded probably in the same vein, if not higher than Van Slyke.

Then get him cheaper. I believe he'll be a very good player.

Patrick Bateman
05-07-2012, 10:49 PM
Then get him cheaper. I believe he'll be a very good player.

Just curious, based on what? His stats look good lately, just wondering what you speifically see in him...

Sabo Fan
05-07-2012, 11:26 PM
In 26 2011 starts, Leake had an ERA+ of 101.

At this point in his career, he most closely resembles Kevin Millwood, Freddy Garcia, Brad Penny, Livan Hernandez, Kerry Wood, and Mike Torrez, among others.

That's near ace level at his ceiling, with multiple All-Star appearances.

He's 23 and likely to improve a great deal.

The "among others" also includes Hipolito Pichardo, one of my favorite baseball names. Try saying that name and it not be fun.

I'm not saying Leake doesn't have value, and I'm not saying he can't get better, I just think what we see now is what we're going to get going forward. When Leake was drafted, wasn't the general consensus that he was pretty much a finished product? He'd move quickly and be in Cincy quickly, but maybe didn't have the high ceiling some others had. It only takes one team to buy in to the guy though, hopefully if that team is out there and if the Reds decide to move him they get matched up. Best case scenario I think he's a #3 and best case you think he's a #2. Really that's not a huge difference either way.

This really isn't a debate about Leake's abilities so much as it is the kind of player you're looking for in return. I think Leake could bring a decent player back in return right now, but I'd rather shoot a little higher than that. We've been talking about Seth Smith, David DeJesus, Geraldo Parra, Denard Span, etc. Even though I don't think he can play LF, you can toss Billy Butler in there too I guess. But do any of those guys really give you a long-term answer? Not really, though Span might be the closest of the bunch. Still not wild about any of them.

I want a guy I can put in LF (or possibly CF) that can be a legit offensive threat and help Votto and Bruce shoulder the load for the forseeable future. Those guys don't grow on trees so you're going to have to give up a good deal of value in return or identify a younger guy who hasn't quite lived up to his potential just yet but is poised for a breakout. I suggested Martin Prado earlier and I'll be the first to admit he's not that type of guy. So I'll toss a name out there that I think I probably have before - Adam Jones. Looking like he might have finally figured it out, but playing for a team that I get the feeling doesn't really know what they want to do with him. Might be too late at this point, as he's off to a great start. I'd make a call though. Worst they can do is hang up.

RedlegJake
05-07-2012, 11:31 PM
Just curious, based on what? His stats look good lately, just wondering what you speifically see in him...

For one thing I believe he has a lot of his dad in his makeup and Andy was a grinder with attitude. I think he has Cozart like makeup - you know - holes in his talent but the willingness to adjust and listen and learn and the will and mentality not to ever quit and give it everything. With Scott its his mental approach I like and his attitude. I think it will overcome the problems because he'll make the adjustments as he goes. And he'll never be outhustled or intimidated by anyone. That's why he's gotten better as he's gone along. Late bloomer like Cruz with Texas. Probably not Cruz power but more like his dad - good gap hitter with 15-20 homer power and hard nosed play. I like that type of player a lot.

Ghosts of 1990
05-08-2012, 12:09 AM
Sign me up for Willingham, or Span.

757690
05-08-2012, 02:10 AM
The "among others" also includes Hipolito Pichardo, one of my favorite baseball names. Try saying that name and it not be fun.

I'm not saying Leake doesn't have value, and I'm not saying he can't get better, I just think what we see now is what we're going to get going forward. When Leake was drafted, wasn't the general consensus that he was pretty much a finished product? He'd move quickly and be in Cincy quickly, but maybe didn't have the high ceiling some others had. It only takes one team to buy in to the guy though, hopefully if that team is out there and if the Reds decide to move him they get matched up. Best case scenario I think he's a #3 and best case you think he's a #2. Really that's not a huge difference either way.

This really isn't a debate about Leake's abilities so much as it is the kind of player you're looking for in return. I think Leake could bring a decent player back in return right now, but I'd rather shoot a little higher than that. We've been talking about Seth Smith, David DeJesus, Geraldo Parra, Denard Span, etc. Even though I don't think he can play LF, you can toss Billy Butler in there too I guess. But do any of those guys really give you a long-term answer? Not really, though Span might be the closest of the bunch. Still not wild about any of them.

I want a guy I can put in LF (or possibly CF) that can be a legit offensive threat and help Votto and Bruce shoulder the load for the forseeable future. Those guys don't grow on trees so you're going to have to give up a good deal of value in return or identify a younger guy who hasn't quite lived up to his potential just yet but is poised for a breakout. I suggested Martin Prado earlier and I'll be the first to admit he's not that type of guy. So I'll toss a name out there that I think I probably have before - Adam Jones. Looking like he might have finally figured it out, but playing for a team that I get the feeling doesn't really know what they want to do with him. Might be too late at this point, as he's off to a great start. I'd make a call though. Worst they can do is hang up.

I don't think anyone right out of college is a finished product. I think he was determined to be good enough to survive MLB baseball as he learns it and improves. I think his ceiling is an Arroyo type of career, and a floor of a Joe Blanton career. Basically, a very similar floor and ceiling. But it will probably take him a till age 26 to reach either.

powersackers
05-08-2012, 02:27 AM
Will Middlebrooks from Boston. They need pitching. He looks like a stud RH power hitter. Asking price too steep maybe.

Vottomatic
05-08-2012, 07:20 AM
Will Middlebrooks from Boston. They need pitching. He looks like a stud RH power hitter. Asking price too steep maybe.

Middlebrooks, 23 years old (birthday in September)

2011 - .285, 23 HR's, 116 games, .326 OBP, .506 slg, .834 OPS

2012 - 24 minor league games, 9 HR's, .333, .380 OBP, 1.057 OPS
2012 - 4 major league games, 3 HR's, .381, 3 doubles, 1.361 OPS

Give them their pick of Leake or Bailey? I'd consider it.

LoganBuck
05-08-2012, 08:02 AM
Middlebrooks is as available from them, as Bryce Harper is from the Nationals, in that he isn't.

The only way that would happen, would be if the Brewers sold Zack Greinke off and gave Boston a 72 hr negotiating window. You aren't getting him for the Leakes, and Baileys that this team has to offer.

You want a trade target? One is getting ready to come off the DL this week, Carlos Quentin. His salary is 7 million, San Diego is going no where, they acquired him for a couple of C prospects in December. A rental bat, the type that can be had for some package of guys that you may not really miss.

Vottomatic
05-08-2012, 08:09 AM
Middlebrooks is as available from them, as Bryce Harper is from the Nationals, in that he isn't.

The only way that would happen, would be if the Brewers sold Zack Greinke off and gave Boston a 72 hr negotiating window. You aren't getting him for the Leakes, and Baileys that this team has to offer.

You want a trade target? One is getting ready to come off the DL this week, Carlos Quentin. His salary is 7 million, San Diego is going no where, they acquired him for a couple of C prospects in December. A rental bat, the type that can be had for some package of guys that you may not really miss.

Funny. I read somewhere that Boston was showcasing Middlebrooks to acquire a pitcher.

Guess not.

bellhead
05-08-2012, 08:24 AM
If the Yankees keep falling apart this year, and at the rate their going they actually might be out of the wildcard race by the middle of June.

Would you guys take Nick Swisher for LF.... He's due $11 million this year, so he will be about 6 million going forward from the middle of June. He's out of contract at the end of this year also. He's a local guy from C-bus, switch hitter, and will hit around 25 bombs this year...

dfs
05-08-2012, 09:31 AM
I want a guy I can put in LF (or possibly CF) that can be a legit offensive threat and help Votto and Bruce shoulder the load for the forseeable future. Those guys don't

....get traded in May.

lollipopcurve
05-08-2012, 09:35 AM
Headley, Willingham.

Both organizations need a young SS, and the Reds have a surplus there.

DGullett35
05-08-2012, 09:41 AM
If the Yankees keep falling apart this year, and at the rate their going they actually might be out of the wildcard race by the middle of June.

Would you guys take Nick Swisher for LF.... He's due $11 million this year, so he will be about 6 million going forward from the middle of June. He's out of contract at the end of this year also. He's a local guy from C-bus, switch hitter, and will hit around 25 bombs this year...

Swisher is having a career year so far. 7HR, and top 5 in the AL with 24RBI. The Yankees will never be out of it with the resources they have. I just don't see them getting rid of Swisher as long as he keeps this up.

RedEye
05-08-2012, 10:06 AM
Let me throw one more name out there for consideration as a cleanup hitter...Billy Butler. The questions are...for what would the royals trade him and could he play left field?

Not a bad target for the lineup, but isn't he basically Yonder Alonso all over again?

Johnny Footstool
05-08-2012, 10:58 AM
Butler has only played 6 games in his career in the Of and all of them were in LF. He did have one E in those 6 games. However that was back in 2007. I like Butler. The guy is strong as an ox and hits a ton of doubles. Good BA too. Id look into it. Hes bascically a DH for KC with Hosmer manning first and I think they could or would part with him. I just dont know how the defense side of things would work out. He's a pretty big guy, and he doesn't look to be that mobile.



Butler in LF would make Reds fans long for the golden glove of Adam Dunn.

Unless the NL adopts the DH rule, Butler will not be a Red.

M2
05-08-2012, 11:04 AM
Unless the NL adopts the DH rule, Butler will not be a Red.

Butler is shockingly out of shape. Might be the slowest player in baseball. Couldn't crack the Molina family relay team.

Johnny Footstool
05-08-2012, 11:47 AM
Butler is shockingly out of shape. Might be the slowest player in baseball. Couldn't crack the Molina family relay team.

Sean Casey v. 2.0.

M2
05-08-2012, 12:43 PM
Sean Casey v. 2.0.

More like Sean Casey on an all-fried foods diet. Butler's fitness and athleticism would be low for a darts player.

bellhead
05-08-2012, 03:11 PM
Swisher is having a career year so far. 7HR, and top 5 in the AL with 24RBI. The Yankees will never be out of it with the resources they have. I just don't see them getting rid of Swisher as long as he keeps this up.

Well Baltimore is running away with it right now and Tampa Bay is maybe the best overall team in Baseball they will have their luck cut out for them..

Spitball
05-08-2012, 04:28 PM
Funny. I read somewhere that Boston was showcasing Middlebrooks to acquire a pitcher.

Guess not.

He is not playing to be showcased; he's playing because Youkilis is hurt...again.

Tom Servo
05-08-2012, 04:34 PM
Willingham has always been a good target for the Reds, but are the Twins really going to move him after having just signed him this offseason?

DGullett35
05-08-2012, 05:31 PM
Well Baltimore is running away with it right now and Tampa Bay is maybe the best overall team in Baseball they will have their luck cut out for them..

Baltimore did this a couple years ago when they started out hot. The Yanks will be in it till the end. That division just beats the crap out of each other. I say they get a WC spot.

bellhead
05-08-2012, 05:55 PM
Baltimore did this a couple years ago when they started out hot. The Yanks will be in it till the end. That division just beats the crap out of each other. I say they get a WC spot.

That's the thing about that division with Rivera going down I feel they are the 4th best team in that division. Also they are relying on 2 over 35 year old infield players for a lot of their offense. If Jeter or Arod goes down then the season goes with it.

If they do go into a funk and are out of it. I think Swisher would be the best choice out of anybody.

Also as a free agent next year anybody want him at 4 years 50 million to replace the Rolen contract?

Reds/Flyers Fan
05-08-2012, 06:17 PM
Well Baltimore is running away with it right now and Tampa Bay is maybe the best overall team in Baseball they will have their luck cut out for them..

If I were the Yankees, I wouldn't be the slightest bit concerned with the Orioles right now. Meantime, the Indians are doing what they did last year - fast start and leading the division. But I doubt the Tigers are too concerned there either.

_Sir_Charles_
05-08-2012, 07:03 PM
More like Sean Casey on an all-fried foods diet. Butler's fitness and athleticism would be low for a darts player.


Okay, I seriously LOL'd at that one. :beerme:

corkedbat
05-08-2012, 07:29 PM
I'd love to add Swisher, but see no way it happens. I'd also be OK with Willingham, Parra, Headley, Graham, DeJesus, Smith and Myers. A couple of other names I'd consider making a play for are Lonnie Chisenhall from the tribe and possibly his teammate Shin-Soo Choo. Choo is off to a slow start and the Indians have some decent OF options. Now might be a good time to buy low on Choo. A big NO to Butler. I only want legitimate OFers.

Benihana
05-08-2012, 09:44 PM
I would love to pry Wil Myers away from the Royals, although I can't see how they give him up without getting Hamilton back.

I'd offer them Gregorius, one of Soto/LaMarre and one of Sulbaran/Lotzkar/Cingrani.

powersackers
05-08-2012, 11:17 PM
Ludwick replaced by Quinten sounds good. Not sure SD needs more prospects though. They need some proven guys to put butts in seats. Unless they just want to ride the revenue sharing gravy train.

RedlegJake
05-09-2012, 12:02 AM
I would love to pry Wil Myers away from the Royals, although I can't see how they give him up without getting Hamilton back.

I'd offer them Gregorius, one of Soto/LaMarre and one of Sulbaran/Lotzkar/Cingrani.

I'd trade Hamilton for Myers and add another player in the deal. I still don't think the Royals would do it.

DGullett35
05-09-2012, 06:48 AM
That's the thing about that division with Rivera going down I feel they are the 4th best team in that division. Also they are relying on 2 over 35 year old infield players for a lot of their offense. If Jeter or Arod goes down then the season goes with it.

If they do go into a funk and are out of it. I think Swisher would be the best choice out of anybody.

Also as a free agent next year anybody want him at 4 years 50 million to replace the Rolen contract?

I agree with you there that if they fall apart Swisher would be one to go. However I really don't think he's our answer for a 4 hitter. Hes a good 2 hitter or someone to hit 6th or lower in the order. He also reminds me of Bruce in that he goes through long stretches of slumps followed by being the hottest man on earth. Id probably take him tho since he would be an upgrade for this Reds team in LF.

Vottomatic
05-09-2012, 08:27 PM
Trade #1: Reds prospects for Chase Headley - San Diego is rebuilding and needs offense; Headley can play LF and 3B
Trade #2: Reds prospects for Adam Eaton (Arizona prospect) - future leadoff hitter and native of Dayton and Miami U.
Trade #3: Reds prospect for Kevin Youkalis, Boston pays salary to unload him.
Trade #4: Homer Bailey for Alex Gordon (LF - Kansas City)
Trade #5: Bailey for Denard Span (OF - Minnesota) - make him the leadoff hitter

Tom Servo
05-09-2012, 09:01 PM
Trade #4: Homer Bailey for Alex Gordon (LF - Kansas City)

Not a snowball's chance in hell KC does that deal.

RedlegJake
05-09-2012, 11:50 PM
Trade #4: Homer Bailey for Alex Gordon (LF - Kansas City)

I keep seeing Gordon trade ideas for ridiculous returns back to KC. They are not trading Gordon unless you send a truckload of guys to them. He is the face of their franchise. I say this as a a KC area native. No freakin' way!

Also the Billy Butler idea - you don't want him! He's valuable to an AL team because he's a natural hitter and can DH. But he's the worst fielder I've ever seen and a slow runner. He'd be horrendous in the NL. He'd make Adam Dunn look like a gazelle. Butler should stay in KC where he's happy and needed. Redzone would hate him.

Wil Myers is a possible target but it would take a top prospect back - like Hamilton or Corcino or Soto and Gregorious and Barnhart. They could use Barnhart's glove right now. Myer's good and for real but KC is deep in the farm and might entertain a deal if they could get even deeper.

OesterPoster
05-10-2012, 09:44 AM
Willingham is still the guy I'd like. He hit another HR last night. Now with an OPS over 1.000, and he hits RHP well.

mth123
05-10-2012, 11:32 AM
The Reds should look into a deal with the Indians. They have 7 LH bats and 2 switch hitters in their starting line-up. They also have an injured star (Sizemroe) who hits lefty and most of the minor league depth (Chisenhall, Weglarz, Carrera) hits lefty or swith hits (Phelps, Diaz). They could use a couple RH guys with pop and maybe another starter. They also have some depth in LH bullpen arms with Tony Sipp, Nick Hagadone and Rafael Perez (out with a strained lat right now) and the Reds could use one to backfill for Bray or possibly free Chapman for the rotation.

Bailey, Heisey and Frazier for Shin Soo Choo, Tony Sipp, Jack Hannahan and Nick Weglarz. The Indians add a high cieling, fairly solid starter, A RH Power bat to share 3B and play the other corners spots and even SS or 2B in a pinch and a RH bat to play in RF who can play all the OF spots acceptably (though CF probably not full time). The Reds add a bullpen lefty that allows Chapman to move into the Rotation, a good defensive OF and lefty bat in Choo who hits fairly well against RHP who can also play CF or RF if needed and a lefty bat who can play 3B who also holds his own against RHP who can play part time and uprade the bench. Weglarz would add a former top prospect who had a bad season in 2011 and a poor start this year, but is only 24 and still has lefty power potential.

Not ideal, but realistic under Dusty:

Cozart
Stubbs
Votto
Phillips
Bruce
Choo/Ludwick
Rolen/Hannahan
Hanigan/Mesoraco

with Cairo and Valdez on the bench.

Cueto
Latos
Arroyo
Chapman
Leake

Lecure
Simon
Hoover
Sipp
Arredondo
Marshall
Ondrusek

With Chapman in the rotation, I'd use Marshall to be my high leverage set-up man and try to get by with Ondrusek or Arredondo to close. Hopefully Masset and Bray could come back at some point to provide rested and effective arms to get the pen through the year.

Vottomatic
05-10-2012, 11:51 AM
Heck, let's just go for it and add Youkilis, Dunn and Peavy. World Series here we come!

brad1176
05-10-2012, 01:07 PM
What about trying for Brett Lawrie? He would fill our need at 3rd for the future.

mth123
05-10-2012, 01:09 PM
What about trying for Brett Lawrie? He would fill our need at 3rd for the future.

It would probably take Cueto.

HotCorner
05-10-2012, 01:18 PM
What about trying for Brett Lawrie? He would fill our need at 3rd for the future.

While we're at it, let's pick up Mike Trout and Bryce Harper too.

The names mentioned here I like best would be Headley, Span and Willingham.

brad1176
05-10-2012, 01:43 PM
While we're at it, let's pick up Mike Trout and Bryce Harper too.

The names mentioned here I like best would be Headley, Span and Willingham.

Headley: No power, strikes out a lot, .260 hitter.

Span: Average hitter with zero power

Willingham: Strikes out a lot with decent power, costs a lot.

I guess you're right, what's not to like about going after them in a trade...

Dan
05-10-2012, 02:06 PM
Let me introduce a new name: Shane Victorino.

Ruben Amaro says the Phillies might become sellers (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/05/amaro-phillies-could-be-sellers.html) this summer. If so, Victorino would be a great, great addition to the Reds.


Amaro, who was named the team's GM in 2008, has never been a 'seller' in his career as a GM. Cole Hamels and Shane Victorino are scheduled to hit free agency following the 2012 season and would be coveted by other teams.

Dan
05-10-2012, 02:07 PM
While we're at it, let's pick up Mike Trout and Bryce Harper too.

The names mentioned here I like best would be Headley, Span and Willingham.

I would do Heisey and Frazier for Harper. To get Bailey, though, they'd have to send me back a decent prospect. :laugh:

Vottomatic
05-10-2012, 02:11 PM
What would it take to pry Carlos Gonzalez away from the Rockies or Starlin Castro from the Cubs, or Ryan Braun from the Brewers, or Buster Posey?

:D

HotCorner
05-10-2012, 02:41 PM
Headley: No power, strikes out a lot, .260 hitter.

Span: Average hitter with zero power

Willingham: Strikes out a lot with decent power, costs a lot.

I guess you're right, what's not to like about going after them in a trade...

The Blue Jays will not trade Brett Lawrie. He is one of their building blocks and faces of their franchise.

Headley is a much better hitter out of Petco Park. He can play 3B and LF. Over the Reds' current options, he's a good option to pursue.

I'll rescind my support for Span and Willingham after looking at their respective numbers. Span's OBP is not as high as I thought and Willingham's 2012 numbers are skewed by severe home/road splits which worries me.

Vottomatic
05-10-2012, 03:27 PM
Yeah, I've mentioned Span on here, but I've changed my mind. I'm not interested.

mth123
05-10-2012, 03:37 PM
The Blue Jays will not trade Brett Lawrie. He is one of their building blocks and faces of their franchise.

Headley is a much better hitter out of Petco Park. He can play 3B and LF. Over the Reds' current options, he's a good option to pursue.

I'll rescind my support for Span and Willingham after looking at their respective numbers. Span's OBP is not as high as I thought and Willingham's 2012 numbers are skewed by severe home/road splits which worries me.

I'll repeat my love for the Headley idea, but still can't see the Padres taking what the Reds have to give. The glut of medium power, low OBP RH Bats (Heisey, Frazier, Soto, Phipps, even Stubbs) would be a poor fit in Petco and they probably aren't as desperate for young pitching since they seem to have a never ending supply of cheap vets lining up to play there to revive their career. They may be interested in Didi and probably would be in Hamilton, but the consistent line drive hitting bats are lacking in the Red's system and its probably what they'd want. H-Rod might qualify, but he seems to be a man w/o a position (maybe the Reds should give him a look in the OF). They may be able to package Hamilton with H-Rod and Frazier, but with 3B such a need around baseball, I'd guess they could find some other team to give them exactly what they are looking for. They've really already acquired the guys from the Red's system who would seem like a good idea in SD. Why should they deal Headley for the leftover secondary prospects that the Red's have when they could go elsewhere and get prime guys like they've already gotten from the Red's in the Latos deal?

lollipopcurve
05-10-2012, 03:41 PM
I'll repeat my love for the Headley idea, but still can't see the Padres taking what the Reds have to give.

Prospect package headed by Gregorius. Padres badly need a young SS -- they have Bartlett, who's done after this year, and no prospect on the horizon.

mth123
05-10-2012, 03:45 PM
Prospect package headed by Gregorius. Padres badly need a young SS -- they have Bartlett, who's done after this year, and no prospect on the horizon.

Maybe as part of a package, but SS who can pick it and OPS .600 aren't so hard to find (see Janish, Paul). So far that's all Didi is at the upper levels and I can't see them dealing their one established position player for that as the lead return in the deal. Heck, Everth Cabrera can do that.

RedlegJake
05-10-2012, 03:46 PM
Prospect package headed by Gregorius. Padres badly need a young SS -- they have Bartlett, who's done after this year, and no prospect on the horizon.

That would be the ticket if you really want Headley. And I disagree that he'd be that expensive-he's not Mat Latos ceiling-wise which is why I'm no so sure I'd be all that hot to grab him either. With a bit of patience HRod could give us the same numbers or better and Vidal would probably give us more power. I'f rather keep Frazier for the time being and look at a left fielder.

brad1176
05-10-2012, 03:56 PM
The Blue Jays will not trade Brett Lawrie. He is one of their building blocks and faces of their franchise.

Headley is a much better hitter out of Petco Park. He can play 3B and LF. Over the Reds' current options, he's a good option to pursue.

I'll rescind my support for Span and Willingham after looking at their respective numbers. Span's OBP is not as high as I thought and Willingham's 2012 numbers are skewed by severe home/road splits which worries me.

Headley is signifigantly better away from Petco in his career, that we will agree upon. His BA is 70 points higher and OPS is about 150 higher. Not sure if Petco gets in his head or what.

I'm just not big on guys that have drastic splits.

mth123
05-10-2012, 03:57 PM
That would be the ticket if you really want Headley. And I disagree that he'd be that expensive-he's not Mat Latos ceiling-wise which is why I'm no so sure I'd be all that hot to grab him either. With a bit of patience HRod could give us the same numbers or better and Vidal would probably give us more power. I'f rather keep Frazier for the time being and look at a left fielder.

Any other .800+ OPS guys who can play 3rd on the market? .700+? The Angels would probably love to get him. Phillie too if Utley can't hack it and they move Placido to 2B. Not sure how certain Longoria's return is, but the Rays may have interest. If not at 3B, then the OF. The Dodgers could sure use him. If the Rockies stay in it, then maybe they would too (though dealing Arenado for him would give them pause IMO). Those team's didn't already empty the farm of their top prospects.

Didi, Frazier and an arm might do it, but the arm would need to be Corcino IMO. There aren't any highly likely studs in that deal going the Padres way and I think they'd rather have one back than a package of "meh."

_Sir_Charles_
05-10-2012, 06:50 PM
Prospect package headed by Gregorius. Padres badly need a young SS -- they have Bartlett, who's done after this year, and no prospect on the horizon.

I'd have to suggest using Janish as the SS being traded. I mean the guy's done just about everything the Reds have asked him to do. It's pretty clear he's not going to get another shot with the Reds (even after he's healthy), I'd kinda like to see them trade him so he at least gets a shot somewhere where he's needed. I hate seeing guys put to sleep in the minors when they're good enough for the bigs. (Dorn is another one of those IMO).

mth123
05-10-2012, 06:55 PM
I'd have to suggest using Janish as the SS being traded. I mean the guy's done just about everything the Reds have asked him to do. It's pretty clear he's not going to get another shot with the Reds (even after he's healthy), I'd kinda like to see them trade him so he at least gets a shot somewhere where he's needed. I hate seeing guys put to sleep in the minors when they're good enough for the bigs. (Dorn is another one of those IMO).

I don't think you could get a bag of balls for Janish. They could probably move him for "future considerations" to some team in need of a defender to settle down a leaky infield, but dealing him is not going to help improve the Reds in any way (which is the point of a thread called "Trade Targets" IMO).

_Sir_Charles_
05-10-2012, 07:02 PM
I don't think you could get a bag of balls for Janish. They could probably move him for "future considerations" to some team in need of a defender to settle down a leaky infield, but dealing him is not going to help improve the Reds in any way (which is the point of a thread called "Trade Targets" IMO).

No, I know that. I was just tossing the idea out there that I think we need to consider trading some of these guys before they become minor league lifers. Include Janish in a trade with other guys as headliners. I just think it would be a nice gesture to these guys who've toiled for the Reds but just don't have openings to break thru.

mth123
05-10-2012, 07:15 PM
No, I know that. I was just tossing the idea out there that I think we need to consider trading some of these guys before they become minor league lifers. Include Janish in a trade with other guys as headliners. I just think it would be a nice gesture to these guys who've toiled for the Reds but just don't have openings to break thru.

I get it, but teams in need of a SS and dealing something the Reds want are going to ask for Didi or Hamilton. The Reds probably can't package Janish to a team that could use him. They'd have to give him away by himself IMO.

corkedbat
05-10-2012, 07:16 PM
Prospect package headed by Gregorius. Padres badly need a young SS -- they have Bartlett, who's done after this year, and no prospect on the horizon.

I'm in no hurry to trade any of our SS unless it's for a premium return. Not saying any are untouchable by any means, but by next year, I can see Cozart and Did holding down SS and backing up Phillips. Out bench has been rather anemic the past few years, whichever one isn't playing should be an improvement over Janish and valdez and the fact that Didi can hit from the left side gives flexability. They would both be young and affordable for several years. It would also free the club to move Hamilton to CF.

Not that sure about Headley, but he would need to be a measurable improvement over Frazier and HRod for me to deal Didi.

Vottomatic
05-11-2012, 08:38 AM
I don't know the exact numbers now, but I was looking at Gregorius stats for this year and he has like 30+ hits with his first extra base hit the other night, a double. I don't see him having much value. A singles hitter with a good batting average, isn't that impressive.

I also think Janish has value. He's a proven solid fielder in the majors, and other than last year, his bat hasn't been that bad. I think some team could use him and bat him 8th.

And finally, I think every team out there knows that Hamilton is untouchable. Doesn't hurt to ask, but I think they know the answer already. That would be like us asking for Will Middlebrooks from Boston. Don't bother asking.

dougdirt
05-11-2012, 08:45 AM
I don't know the exact numbers now, but I was looking at Gregorius stats for this year and he has like 30+ hits with his first extra base hit the other night, a double. I don't see him having much value. A singles hitter with a good batting average, isn't that impressive.
He has power potential, he just hasn't tapped into it in the games yet. I think you are severely underestimating him. He is hitting .300 with nearly as many walks as strikeouts in AA at a young age with really good defensive tools. Guys like that have value. He won't anchor a trade by himself, but he is a lot more than a toss in.


And finally, I think every team out there knows that Hamilton is untouchable. Doesn't hurt to ask, but I think they know the answer already. That would be like us asking for Will Middlebrooks from Boston. Don't bother asking.

Funny, because you just said a singles hitter with a good batting average isn't that impressive. That is what Hamilton is. He doesn't have the power potential that Gregorius has, at all.

Dan
05-11-2012, 10:04 AM
If the difference between getting Headley and not getting him is Gregorius, then Gregorius goes. If Hamilton is involved, then I want a player that's a step up from Headley.

Either way, if I can trade a AA or A+ player for a productive major leaguer, I do it every day and twice on Sunday.

PuffyPig
05-11-2012, 10:12 AM
Funny, because you just said a singles hitter with a good batting average isn't that impressive. That is what Hamilton is. He doesn't have the power potential that Gregorius has, at all.


Hamilton has 13 xtra base hits already this year, which equates to 70 over 162 games. And those 100+ stolen bases probably makes him worth more offensively too. Plus on pace for 76 walks.

PuffyPig
05-11-2012, 10:15 AM
Either way, if I can trade a AA or A+ player for a productive major leaguer, I do it every day and twice on Sunday.

Not if that A+ or AA player is a premium prospect and that "productive major leaguer" is expensive, regressing, etc.

And I don't think you can trade the same minor leaguer twice, even if it's on a Sunday....

dougdirt
05-11-2012, 10:23 AM
Hamilton has 13 xtra base hits already this year, which equates to 70 over 162 games. And those 100+ stolen bases probably makes him worth more offensively too. Plus on pace for 76 walks.

While Hamilton is less effected by the Cal League, it is still the Cal League. Gregorius in 188 at bats there last year had 12 doubles, a triple and 5 home runs. Hamilton is having an outstanding start to the season, but lets call a spade a spade. Hamilton doesn't have power. He is never going to have power. He will turn some singles into doubles because of his speed and he will turn some doubles into triples because of his speed. But if he ever hits 5 home runs in a season it will absolutely shock most people.

The walks are good to see. That is my favorite part of the season so far from Hamilton, by far. I hope he can keep it going because it is a big step forward toward him becoming a solid offensive player at the next level.

Vottomatic
05-11-2012, 12:14 PM
Hamilton has 13 xtra base hits already this year, which equates to 70 over 162 games. And those 100+ stolen bases probably makes him worth more offensively too. Plus on pace for 76 walks.

I agree with you. Hamilton's speed and stolen base ability makes him 1000x more valuable than Gregorius. I'd trade Gregorius in a heartbeat for the right return if he is considered that valuable. I don't see much with him.

OnBaseMachine
05-11-2012, 12:46 PM
I love the idea of the Reds acquiring Chase Headley. Hopefully Walt can swing a deal for him.

DGullett35
05-11-2012, 01:09 PM
I love the idea of the Reds acquiring Chase Headley. Hopefully Walt can swing a deal for him.

I like this idea also. the guy can be our future 3rd baseman, and can also hit between Votto and Bruce. Sounds like a win win to me. I also like the idea of Dusty giving Frazier more starts in LF. if this is to continue(crossing my fingers) it looks like Heisey could be on his way out of the Queen city. I see the Reds holding on to Ludwick for the entire year. At some point Walt is going to have to get a LH bat and someone will need to go. We would get more for Heisey than we would Ludwick. I may be reading all of this wrong but IMO Heisey may be on the chopping block.

Dan
05-11-2012, 01:10 PM
Not if that A+ or AA player is a premium prospect and that "productive major leaguer" is expensive, regressing, etc.

And I don't think you can trade the same minor leaguer twice, even if it's on a Sunday....

Like I said, productive, not regressing. Whether he's expensive salary-wise is a separate issue, but one that doesn't concern whether a prospect should or shouldn't be traded unless the issue is cash coming back.

PuffyPig
05-11-2012, 01:34 PM
Like I said, productive, not regressing. Whether he's expensive salary-wise is a separate issue, but one that doesn't concern whether a prospect should or shouldn't be traded unless the issue is cash coming back.


A player can be still productive yet regressing.

Trading premium prospects for an established player like Matt Latos is one thing, trading premium prospects for a Scott Rolen circa 2010 may be another thing. Posters were generally fine with obtaining Rolen when we did, except those that valued Stewart in the "premium prospect" range.

Dan
05-11-2012, 02:15 PM
A player can be still productive yet regressing.

Trading premium prospects for an established player like Matt Latos is one thing, trading premium prospects for a Scott Rolen circa 2010 may be another thing. Posters were generally fine with obtaining Rolen when we did, except those that valued Stewart in the "premium prospect" range.

Believe it or not I generally thought that Rolen was already starting to decline, but I viewed EE for what he was (ok bat, bad glove) and didn't see Stewart as especially outstanding like others we had like Cueto and Bailey; Leake wasn't yet expected to become what he did in 2010. Wasn't a terrible trade in my opinion.

11larkin11
05-11-2012, 02:18 PM
I heard yesterday that if the Phillies continue to slide that Amaro said almost anyone would be up for trade for salary relief. I thought it last year and I think it again this year: Hunter Pence is THE perfect fit for this team in LF. I don't know if we have the chips remaining to swing a deal, but I'd love to see Walt try for it.

Vottomatic
05-11-2012, 02:44 PM
What scares me is that our best trading chips are Hamilton, Cingrani, Corcino, Vidal, and Lutz. And frankly, I don't want to part with any of them.

Tom Servo
05-11-2012, 02:53 PM
What scares me is that our best trading chips are Hamilton, Cingrani, Corcino, Vidal, and Lutz. And frankly, I don't want to part with any of them.
A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.

Gallen5862
05-11-2012, 03:40 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Minor Moves: Trevor Reckling
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [May 11 at 9:14am CST]
The latest minor moves from around the league...

The Angels released left-hander Trevor Reckling, as noted by Matt Eddy of Baseball America (on Twitter). Reckling, who's still just 22, entered the 2010 season as one of the Angels' top prospects, according to Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus. Reckling posted a 3.73 ERA with 5.7 K/9 and 3.2 BB/9 in 99 innings as a starter at Double-A last year, but allowed 15 walks and 14 earned runs in 6 2/3 innings at Class A this year.

Gallen5862
05-11-2012, 03:41 PM
Would Trevor Reckling be worth signing to a minor league deal?

Dan
05-11-2012, 04:00 PM
What scares me is that our best trading chips are Hamilton, Cingrani, Corcino, Vidal, and Lutz. And frankly, I don't want to part with any of them.

There will be more prospects. There always are as long as your organization drafts and develops well. The Reds seem to be doing a lot of both lately. This isn't 1992-2003 anymore.

Vottomatic
05-11-2012, 04:27 PM
Would Trevor Reckling be worth signing to a minor league deal?

I'd let Ted Power give him a shot.

LoganBuck
05-11-2012, 07:39 PM
Peter Bourjos anyone?

mth123
05-11-2012, 08:13 PM
Peter Bourjos anyone?

Another RH Hitter who struggles with RH pitching. Pass unless the Reds could flip Stubbs for something.

Vottomatic
05-12-2012, 07:18 PM
Team e.r.a.:
30. Twins
29. Red Sox
28. Rockies
27. Royals

Surely, the Reds could trade Bailey for an upgrade in the OF or at 3B?

Twins - Josh Willingham - $7M-'12, $7M-'13, $7M-'14, FA-'15
.313, 7 HR, 19 rbi (on a bad offense), 10 doubles, 1.093 OPS

Sadly, there's nothing on the Red Sox I'm interested in. Youkilis, but they'd have to throw in cash and not expect much back.

Rockies - Carlos Gonzalez - $5.5M-'12, $8M-'13, $11M-'14, $16.5M-'15, $17.5M-'16, $20.5M-'17, FA-'18
.310, 7 HR's, 25 rbi, 5 SB's, .386 OBP, .961 OPS
Fat chance of getting him or affording him.

I'd try and get Chase Headley from the Padres and get Willingham from the Twins. If the Red Sox would be willing to eat some salary and unload Youkilis, I'd do that too.

Spitball
05-12-2012, 10:06 PM
Would Trevor Reckling be worth signing to a minor league deal?

I have seen Trevor Reckling pitch many times here in Arkansas. A couple of years ago, he was a very promising prospect and would hit 92 mph regularly. He went to triple A but apparently hurt his arm. When he returned to Arkansas, I never saw him over 88 mph, and his control seemed to be very inconsistent.

I would give him a try but wouldn't expect much.

LoganBuck
05-13-2012, 09:04 AM
So is it time to light the bat-signal for.the Kevin Youkilis watch?

Sabo Fan
05-13-2012, 09:42 AM
So is it time to light the bat-signal for.the Kevin Youkilis watch?

Probably, the stars seemed to have aligned. Not that I'm thrilled about it though. Rolen has possibly played his last inning as a Red and Youk would seem to be on the outs in Boston and would come cheap. I doubt he'll be the offensive boost this team needs though, and the defense is going to be well below average.

As others have said, I'd like to see what the price is on Headley, though SD probably thinks it got everything they liked in the Reds system for Latos. I'd love to pry Prado away from the Braves but there doesn't seem to be much of a fit there either. The asking price for anyone will probably be high, teams know the Reds are hurting for offense and now with Rolen hurt they're in a bad spot.

I like to think big - what's the asking price on David Wright?

M2
05-14-2012, 01:08 PM
I like to think big - what's the asking price on David Wright?

Now that's a groovy idea.

LoganBuck
05-14-2012, 01:14 PM
Now that's a groovy idea.

As in Scooby snacks?

HotCorner
05-14-2012, 01:33 PM
I like to think big - what's the asking price on David Wright?

Me likey but the Mets would want a lot.

PuffyPig
05-14-2012, 01:54 PM
Me likey but the Mets would want a lot.

Especially since they've indicated that they plan to try and sign him long term.

lollipopcurve
05-14-2012, 02:00 PM
I like to think big - what's the asking price on David Wright?

They've said that "under no circumstances" do they see putting him on the market.

Benihana
05-14-2012, 02:54 PM
What is the most people would be willing to give up for Kevin Youkilis, if he proves he's healthy (for the time being) over the next month?

I still think (for better or worse) that is the most likely trade target for the Reds- especially if Rolen is done.

Gainesville Red
05-14-2012, 03:23 PM
Balfour's apparently feuding with management in Oakland.

Take Chapman's place in the pen, move him to the rotation?

I'm too lazy to look at Balfour's #'s but he's been pretty good for awhile, right?

Rojo
05-14-2012, 03:30 PM
Especially since they've indicated that they plan to try and sign him long term.

My guess is that Mets would have to take a real swan dive to move him.

Benihana
05-14-2012, 03:48 PM
Balfour's apparently feuding with management in Oakland.

Take Chapman's place in the pen, move him to the rotation?

I'm too lazy to look at Balfour's #'s but he's been pretty good for awhile, right?

And get Seth Smith while we're at it (although admittedly we'd probably have to wait until Cespedes comes off the DL for that). See one of the first posts on this thread- I'd love to make that move, and I don't think it would cost much.

Rojo
05-14-2012, 04:10 PM
Fukodome would probably be a cheap pickup. Nice OB against righties, though he's getting a bit long of tooth.

Kc61
05-14-2012, 04:26 PM
Fukodome would probably be a cheap pickup. Nice OB against righties, though he's getting a bit long of tooth.


As per this suggestion, the key thing to look for is on base percentage, particularly against RHP.

Even with the Reds' offensive issues this year, their slugging numbers are mid-pack, they even lead the NL in doubles (a real oddity, Reds usually are lower in doubles because GABP turns them into homers). Extra base hit total is good.

Reds OBP is now .300 and against righties is .292. These are the numbers that are really lagging. The only team with a lower OBP is the Pirates, who are below sea level in that department.

If the Reds could add a high OB guy for the top of the order, I think it works wonders for the offense. Eventually a middle of the order bat would help too, but IMO the on base guy is more critical.

(I'm also trying to get Votto a slew of RBI opportunities, hidden agenda.)

This also raises the question of hitting Hanigan first or second, which is probably for another thread.

RedsManRick
05-15-2012, 12:35 PM
Rumor is that if the Phillies are struggling, they'll start fielding offers for various pendig FAs. I know some people want Hunter Pence, but I'm more interested in adding OBP than SLG. So what about Shane Victorino. He would be a perfect fit in LF and leadoff. What do people think the Phillies would be looking for in return? Since he can play CF, we could include Heisey as part of the package -- but what else would we have to add? Would they demand a Corcino or Hamilton?

Benihana
05-15-2012, 01:42 PM
Rumor is that if the Phillies are struggling, they'll start fielding offers for various pendig FAs. I know some people want Hunter Pence, but I'm more interested in adding OBP than SLG. So what about Shane Victorino. He would be a perfect fit in LF and leadoff. What do people think the Phillies would be looking for in return? Since he can play CF, we could include Heisey as part of the package -- but what else would we have to add? Would they demand a Corcino or Hamilton?

I was thinking about Victorino the other day. Remember when we reportedly almost traded Arroyo for him?

I'd wait another month or two- the Phillies could be sellers. With their aging middle infield, I'm sure they'd be interested in Gregorius. May also be a good time to sell high on Lotzkar after the first half season of health in his career.

I wouldn't trade Hamilton or Corcino for a rental of Victorino's caliber. A rental of Cliff Lee or Cole Hamels? That's another story.

*BaseClogger*
05-15-2012, 02:16 PM
I keep seeing names like Span, Smith, Crisp, and Willingham.

When it comes to mediocre LF targets, I prefer David Dejsus. He has the smallest contract of the bunch other than Smith and has been great this season for the Cubs. He has a career .356 OBP, including .368 vRHP. He is the LH leadoff hitter this team has been missing. Fine fielder in LF too.

I also agree with the poster who wanted to add another relief pitcher. Chapman needs to slide to the rotation in July if this team wants to be dangerous in the postseason...

OesterPoster
05-15-2012, 03:30 PM
DeJesus, I'd like as well. I didn't realize his career OBP was that high until looking it up. Not sure how well the Reds would match up with the Cubs as a partner though, after doing the Marshall trade already.

reds44
05-15-2012, 03:43 PM
Which begs the question, why didn't they just sign DeJesus in the offseason?

OesterPoster
05-15-2012, 03:47 PM
Which begs the question, why didn't they just sign DeJesus in the offseason?

Because he's not an ex-Cardinal?

_Sir_Charles_
05-15-2012, 04:03 PM
If we're going to go looking for bargain bin, mediocre left fielders....I'd pass altogether and just keep giving Heisey more time. I've got no problem with us upgrading LF and cleanup, but only if it's a legitimate upgrade. I'm sick of these half-hearted attempts of fixing left.

Playadlc
05-15-2012, 04:09 PM
Surprised Mark Trumbo hasn't been mentioned in this thread. Aren't the Angles actively shopping him?

He doesn't walk a ton but he is a 30HR/800+OPS LF'er and is only 26 years old.

Tommyjohn25
05-15-2012, 04:18 PM
For the right price, I'd love to have Victorino in a Reds uniform.

Tommyjohn25
05-15-2012, 04:19 PM
I would love even more to have Chase Headley in a Reds uniform.

Benihana
05-15-2012, 05:16 PM
Surprised Mark Trumbo hasn't been mentioned in this thread. Aren't the Angles actively shopping him?

He doesn't walk a ton but he is a 30HR/800+OPS LF'er and is only 26 years old.

Good point. He could hit between Votto and Bruce (because with Dusty someone has to).

Angels are reportedly looking for a catcher with Ianetta out, and a closer since Walden faltered. I wouldn't move Mez or Hanigan at this point, but I'd happily package Navarro with something useful. I bet they'd love to have Arredondo back now.

_Sir_Charles_
05-15-2012, 05:33 PM
Here's a target I never hear mentioned. Shin Soo Choo. He's hitting FA next year IIRC. Now there's a guy I'd love to get.

Anybody have any idea what it would take to real him in from the Tribe?

Reds/Flyers Fan
05-15-2012, 05:47 PM
Here's a target I never hear mentioned. Shin Soo Choo. He's hitting FA next year IIRC. Now there's a guy I'd love to get.

Anybody have any idea what it would take to real him in from the Tribe?

Well, since they're in first place with a 2.5 game lead, I wouldn't think they're moving anyone anytime soon.

Vottomatic
05-15-2012, 06:42 PM
Good point. He could hit between Votto and Bruce (because with Dusty someone has to).

Angels are reportedly looking for a catcher with Ianetta out, and a closer since Walden faltered. I wouldn't move Mez or Hanigan at this point, but I'd happily package Navarro with something useful. I bet they'd love to have Arredondo back now.

Because I want to win now, I'd consider trading Mez straight up for Trumbo. Hanigan is so underappreciated by Reds fans. Bring up Corky to back him up and let Hanigan catch 140 to 150 games. I know Mez is supposed to be the catcher of the future, but Trumbo plays 3B and the OF (currently playing RF). It wouldn't be easy for me to part with Mez, but I'm strongly in the camp we need a RH power hitter at cleanup. And Mez only plays once or twice a week now anyway.

I'd rather trade something else for Trumbo. But I don't see anything else to trade.

Tom Servo
05-15-2012, 06:54 PM
but Trumbo plays 3B and the OF (currently playing RF).

Trumbo plays 3B and the OF in the same way you could put Votto at shortstop tonight and call him a shortstop.

mth123
05-16-2012, 02:50 AM
If we're going to go looking for bargain bin, mediocre left fielders....I'd pass altogether and just keep giving Heisey more time. I've got no problem with us upgrading LF and cleanup, but only if it's a legitimate upgrade. I'm sick of these half-hearted attempts of fixing left.

Except a LH bat with an .850 OPS vs RHP or a guy with a .350+ OBP is a huge step up from a 4th OF like Chris Heisey. Seth Smith, Denard Span, David Dejesus, even Will Venable would all be significant improvements.

This team needs to lengthen its line-up vs RHP. Today, its a two man show.

mth123
05-16-2012, 03:09 AM
Here's a target I never hear mentioned. Shin Soo Choo. He's hitting FA next year IIRC. Now there's a guy I'd love to get.

Anybody have any idea what it would take to real him in from the Tribe?

Now you're talking. The Indians are overly LH (7 lefty bats and 2 switch hitters in the starting 9 with a lefty like Chisenhall the most likely help in AAA and a lefty in Sizemore the one guy who may be able to help off the DL at some point). Unfortunately, the Reds could probably only offer a downgrade. I'd like to see if the Reds could get Jack Hannahan as well from Cleveland. Heisey, Frazier and Leake for Choo and Hannahan. I doubt the Indians would bite, but maybe.

_Sir_Charles_
05-16-2012, 11:21 AM
Now you're talking. The Indians are overly LH (7 lefty bats and 2 switch hitters in the starting 9 with a lefty like Chisenhall the most likely help in AAA and a lefty in Sizemore the one guy who may be able to help off the DL at some point). Unfortunately, the Reds could probably only offer a downgrade. I'd like to see if the Reds could get Jack Hannahan as well from Cleveland. Heisey, Frazier and Leake for Choo and Hannahan. I doubt the Indians would bite, but maybe.

I don't know that they'd want a position player back for Choo. I think they'd want pitching. Now while I'd love to snag Choo, I'd want to do it if we could get him signed. I don't want a rental.

After glancing at the Indians' minor leagues, I think they'd be willing to deal Choo for a prospect haul. Their system is pretty bare after the poor trades they've made in the past few years (getting nothing for Sabathia & Lee and then overpaying for Jimenez has really hurt them IMO).

HotCorner
05-16-2012, 12:59 PM
Which begs the question, why didn't they just sign DeJesus in the offseason?

They didn't want to lose the Ryan Ludwick sweepstakes.

Vottomatic
05-16-2012, 04:35 PM
I don't know that they'd want a position player back for Choo. I think they'd want pitching. Now while I'd love to snag Choo, I'd want to do it if we could get him signed. I don't want a rental.

After glancing at the Indians' minor leagues, I think they'd be willing to deal Choo for a prospect haul. Their system is pretty bare after the poor trades they've made in the past few years (getting nothing for Sabathia & Lee and then overpaying for Jimenez has really hurt them IMO).

How 'bout Danny Dorn, Mike Constanzo, Dennis Phipps, Brett Tomko, Carlos Fisher, Jordan Smith, Juan Duran, Kris Negron, Bill Rhinehart, Chris Valaika, Daryl Jones, Sean Gallagher, Chad Reineke and Jordan Smith? That's a haul. :laugh: :D :eek:

Vottomatic
05-16-2012, 04:36 PM
They didn't want to lose the Ryan Ludwick sweepstakes.

I wish the Reds would have. :p

Dan
05-16-2012, 05:02 PM
I wish the Reds would have. :p

I think they did.

DGullett35
05-16-2012, 06:54 PM
When Ludwick hit that double on opening day to drive a run in I was thinking this guy is going to be a great pickup. Man was I wrong. Hopefully he proves otherwise but I think hes best suited as a DH in the AL and getting part time starts in the OF for the A's or M's. Id rather have Shelley Duncan as our 4th OF.

mth123
05-16-2012, 07:11 PM
I don't know that they'd want a position player back for Choo. I think they'd want pitching. Now while I'd love to snag Choo, I'd want to do it if we could get him signed. I don't want a rental.

After glancing at the Indians' minor leagues, I think they'd be willing to deal Choo for a prospect haul. Their system is pretty bare after the poor trades they've made in the past few years (getting nothing for Sabathia & Lee and then overpaying for Jimenez has really hurt them IMO).

I think the prime motivation to deal Choo would be to balance the line-up which is lefty heavy. Heisey and Frazier for Choo and Hannahan would help in that area, but since Choo and Hannahan are both better than Heisey and Frazier, the Reds would need to include a young arm like Leake to get them to bite. Personally, I wouldn't deal Choo for anyone on the Reds not named Votto, Bruce, Cueto or Latos and wouldn't do any of those from the Reds standpoint. Tough match unless you can make them better at a spot and provide a reasonable replacement elsewhere.

The Indians aren't going to deal Choo for prospects unless they fall out of the race. I don't think the Reds can wait that long.

DGullett35
05-16-2012, 07:20 PM
Choo is one of the fan favorites up in Cleveland. I just don't see them trading him at all, or like you said mth123 unless they fall out of the race. Before they were relevant the last 2 years Choo was their best player. He is still one of their best hitters. I just don't see it. I would love for it to happen tho.

_Sir_Charles_
05-16-2012, 07:24 PM
I think the prime motivation to deal Choo would be to balance the line-up which is lefty heavy. Heisey and Frazier for Choo and Hannahan would help in that area, but since Choo and Hannahan are both better than Heisey and Frazier, the Reds would need to include a young arm like Leake to get them to bite. Personally, I wouldn't deal Choo for anyone on the Reds not named Votto, Bruce, Cueto or Latos and wouldn't do any of those from the Reds standpoint. Tough match unless you can make them better at a spot and provide a reasonable replacement elsewhere.

The Indians aren't going to deal Choo for prospects unless they fall out of the race. I don't think the Reds can wait that long.

Just remember though, they've only got him for THIS year. So they might indeed want to get a decent haul before they lose him to FA. I think part of it depends on whether or not they think they've got a chance to re-sign him.

DGullett35
05-16-2012, 07:27 PM
I think the Indians are going to have to start spending some money to stay competative. The other Ohio team(the Reds) are keeping their stars, and the Tigers keep spending money. Somewhere along the line the Indians are going to have to start keeping their player instead of always trading them. I could see them offering Choo some decent cash to stay. He seems to like it in Cleveland from what Ive read in the papers up here.

mth123
05-16-2012, 07:31 PM
Just remember though, they've only got him for THIS year. So they might indeed want to get a decent haul before they lose him to FA. I think part of it depends on whether or not they think they've got a chance to re-sign him.

Could happen at the end of July. I think the Reds need to make a deal by the end of May. Waiting until the deadline may be their undoing. They need to force something now IMO.

Say they do wait until July, do the Reds have desirable prospects to deal? I'd guess they would have lots of interest in Choo. The Reds don't really have an impact prospect above A+ (and those are iffy). Teams usually want guys who are big league ready. I'd guess the Indians could get at least one for Choo from somebody else.

klw
05-17-2012, 02:45 PM
Adam Lind was just sent to AAA by Toronto. Can he still play the OF? If so, how about Ludwick for Lind? Downside is Lind is signed for next year then there are 3 club options. I am unsure on the money.

Dan
05-17-2012, 02:56 PM
Adam Lind was just sent to AAA by Toronto. Can he still play the OF? If so, how about Ludwick for Lind? Downside is Lind is signed for next year then there are 3 club options. I am unsure on the money.

At this point I would rather have Travis Snider.

Benihana
05-17-2012, 03:50 PM
I think we need a LF more than a 3B, especially if Frazier keeps hitting.

mth123
05-17-2012, 08:25 PM
Adam Lind was just sent to AAA by Toronto. Can he still play the OF? If so, how about Ludwick for Lind? Downside is Lind is signed for next year then there are 3 club options. I am unsure on the money.

Sign me up. Lind is owed $5 Million in 2013 and an option buy-out of $2 Million for 2014. Ludwick is a fair deal for Toronto given the cost savings. The Jays may even need to add some cash.

Lind had a .771 OPS vs RHP in 2011 in 393 PAs. That's not a star, but would improve the team. OBP was kind of low though.

jojo
05-17-2012, 09:08 PM
I think the prime motivation to deal Choo would be to balance the line-up which is lefty heavy. Heisey and Frazier for Choo and Hannahan would help in that area, but since Choo and Hannahan are both better than Heisey and Frazier, the Reds would need to include a young arm like Leake to get them to bite. Personally, I wouldn't deal Choo for anyone on the Reds not named Votto, Bruce, Cueto or Latos and wouldn't do any of those from the Reds standpoint. Tough match unless you can make them better at a spot and provide a reasonable replacement elsewhere.

The Indians aren't going to deal Choo for prospects unless they fall out of the race. I don't think the Reds can wait that long.

Heisey, frazier and Leake probably couldnt get it done.

mth123
05-17-2012, 09:19 PM
Heisey, frazier and Leake probably couldnt get it done.

I think you're right.

TheNext44
05-17-2012, 10:15 PM
Reds made an offer to Melvin Mora.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/05/venezuelan-links-mora-escobar-cervelli.html


Melvin Mora will fly to the states this weekend to begin negotiations with the Giants and Reds, the 40-year-old utilityman told Jonathan Costa Hernández at Líder en Deportes. Mora said his agent received offers from both teams last week, but he didn't yet know the terms. "I haven't had much time for that, due to the kids," Mora said, in reference to his 11-year-old quintuplets.

Tom Servo
05-17-2012, 10:18 PM
Reds made an offer to Melvin Mora.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/05/venezuelan-links-mora-escobar-cervelli.html
:barf:

Vottomatic
05-18-2012, 06:34 AM
I hear the Reds are talking to Manny Mota about a comeback. :D

Vottomatic
05-18-2012, 06:35 AM
Reds made an offer to Melvin Mora.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/05/venezuelan-links-mora-escobar-cervelli.html

Maybe they're going to sign Mora because Frazier is part of some trade?

mdccclxix
05-18-2012, 06:47 AM
Maybe they're going to sign Mora because Frazier is part of some trade?

And this post officially kicks of trade rumor season! :beerme:

Vottomatic
05-18-2012, 06:53 AM
The Reds cannot afford his contract, nor do they have the trade chips to acquire him, but Wright would look good batting cleanup for them. Dude gives you a solid at-bat.

Will M
05-18-2012, 10:59 AM
David DeJesus has returned to his pre 2011 form. He gives you good OBP batting 1rst or 2nd. He has good speed but not a guy who will steal a lot of bases. Good defense I believe. He hits lefty. To me this is the kind of guy the team could use: lefty hitting good OBP bat.

He should cost very little leaving room to get additional help. A couple of no name A ball players for DeJesus and cash. Maybe we give the Cubs Ludwick and they send us less cash because they have to pay Ludwick's salary.

buckeyenut
05-18-2012, 11:28 AM
David DeJesus has returned to his pre 2011 form. He gives you good OBP batting 1rst or 2nd. He has good speed but not a guy who will steal a lot of bases. Good defense I believe. He hits lefty. To me this is the kind of guy the team could use: lefty hitting good OBP bat.

He should cost very little leaving room to get additional help. A couple of no name A ball players for DeJesus and cash. Maybe we give the Cubs Ludwick and they send us less cash because they have to pay Ludwick's salary.

Not sure Cubs would trade him in division, but DeJesus would be a perfect LFer for this team. Ludwick and a couple of B prospects for DeJesus would be awesome IMO.

Would love to see a lineup of
DeJesus
Phillips
Votto
Bruce
Frazier
Cozart
Stubbs
Hanigan

Big Klu
05-18-2012, 10:53 PM
MLB Network said on the ticker that Kevin Youkilis is going to play 3B at Pawtucket during his rehab.

Showcase?

mdccclxix
05-18-2012, 11:28 PM
Arroyo for Youkilis and call it a day. Both teams are better for it.

bellhead
05-18-2012, 11:44 PM
Arroyo for Youkilis and call it a day. Both teams are better for it.

Your way over paying for him...

Triple AAA reliever "insert name" for Youkilis is a gift at this time. The only way they get a descent return is based upon the amount of money they eat on the contract.

mdccclxix
05-18-2012, 11:59 PM
Your way over paying for him...

Triple AAA reliever "insert name" for Youkilis is a gift at this time. The only way they get a descent return is based upon the amount of money they eat on the contract.

He'd have to pass a physical, but he's a 3-5 WAR player when healthy. He'd pull this lineup together and take pressure of the "young" players. It's got some risk involved, for sure.

Really, the best thing for the Reds roster would be to part with Bailey and Stubbs in a package for an OF with a high OBP. It eliminates the K's from the batting order and gives Chapman a chance to move to the rotation. Both players start getting more expensive than the Reds can potentially afford next year as well.

corkedbat
05-19-2012, 01:30 AM
He'd have to pass a physical, but he's a 3-5 WAR player when healthy. He'd pull this lineup together and take pressure of the "young" players. It's got some risk involved, for sure.

Really, the best thing for the Reds roster would be to part with Bailey and Stubbs in a package for an OF with a high OBP. It eliminates the K's from the batting order and gives Chapman a chance to move to the rotation. Both players start getting more expensive than the Reds can potentially afford next year as well.

I have no problem in moving Stubbs and Bailey following this season, but not right now. Creates too many holes instead of filling the ones that exist. I don't deal Stubbs until there is a CF in waiting that can come close to Drew defensively. With Bailey, dealing him to make room for Chapman weakens the rotation. Not because Chapman probably won't be better than Homer (he most likely will), but rather because Bailey leaves and Leake remains.

If I'm the Reds, I send Leake to the Bats to straighten things out, I find a better bat - either a solid leadoff hitter or someone to protect Joey. Both would be great, but probably unrealistic. Most importantly, I acquire aniother high-leverage bullpen arm and move Aroldis to the rotation ASAP.

I firmly believe the only way the Reds really make a serious move on the dirty birds is adding AC to Cueto and Latos (assuming he works out his kinks) and finding someone who can make opponents pay for pitching around Votto on a fairly consistent basis. I don't want to break the pen to fix the rotation though.

Speaking of the pen, any word on the progress of Bray or Massett?

Vottomatic
05-19-2012, 04:35 PM
Stubbs and Neftali Soto for Ichiro Suzuki ($18M - '12, '13 - FA).

Ichiro would have to wave his no-trade clause. Seattle pays most of his salary this year. Seattle picks up a future DH (Soto) and a young major league OFer. Reds get their leadoff guy, that even at his age stole 40 bases last year and has a career OBP of .365, although it has been down the past 2 years most likely because he's playing on a terrible offense, and I'm sure age is taking it's affect.

I'm not a fan of Stubbs at all. You either move Heisey or Bruce to CF, and let Ichiro play his usual RF or LF (if Heisey plays CF).

Yeah, this trade is a huge reach and will never happen. I guess if Ichiro is content playing for a non-contender, he stays put. If he wants to play for a contender, he waves and switches teams.

Crumbley
05-19-2012, 04:38 PM
Doubt Nintendo would part with their Japanese cash cow unless they just got bowled over with an offer. Stubbs and Soto is not that offer.

Big Klu
05-19-2012, 05:06 PM
Stubbs and Neftali Soto for Ichiro Suzuki ($18M - '12, '13 - FA).

Ichiro would have to wave his no-trade clause. Seattle pays most of his salary this year. Seattle picks up a future DH (Soto) and a young major league OFer. Reds get their leadoff guy, that even at his age stole 40 bases last year and has a career OBP of .365, although it has been down the past 2 years most likely because he's playing on a terrible offense, and I'm sure age is taking it's affect.

I'm not a fan of Stubbs at all. You either move Heisey or Bruce to CF, and let Ichiro play his usual RF or LF (if Heisey plays CF).

Yeah, this trade is a huge reach and will never happen. I guess if Ichiro is content playing for a non-contender, he stays put. If he wants to play for a contender, he waves and switches teams.

Ichiro Suzuki would never approve such a trade. He is very much an urbanite, preferring the lifestyle on the West Coast (or possibly the East Coast). I heard him in an interview once, and he had some pretty horrible things to say about the city of Cleveland. I would imagine that he has similar ideas about the Midwest in general (with the possible exception of Chicago).

mth123
05-21-2012, 10:11 PM
MLB Network said on the ticker that Kevin Youkilis is going to play 3B at Pawtucket during his rehab.

Showcase?

Cody Ross now on the DL along with Crawford, Ellsbury, Kalish, McDonald and Repko. The Red Sox really need OF help. Heisey for Youkilis with the Sox evening the cash? Frazier can take Heisey's OF role with Ludwick while Youk plays 3B.

757690
05-21-2012, 10:18 PM
Doubt Nintendo would part with their Japanese cash cow unless they just got bowled over with an offer. Stubbs and Soto is not that offer.

Not to mention Stubbs is a better all around player than Ichiro right now, and will be under team control for years. Why would the Reds make that trade?

Kc61
05-21-2012, 10:24 PM
Cody Ross now on the DL along with Crawford, Ellsbury, Kalish, McDonald and Repko. The Red Sox really need OF help. Heisey for Youkilis with the Sox evening the cash? Frazier can take Heisey's OF role with Ludwick while Youk plays 3B.

I guess, but I'd rather keep Heisey and trade Ludwick or Frazier. I'd trade them both Ludwick and Frazier for Youk and a decent backup player or prospect.

Heisey, Ludwick, and Frazier all have their virtues and their issues. But I'd rather keep Heisey than the other two because he is a very good defender and plays CF.

bellhead
05-21-2012, 10:29 PM
Cody Ross now on the DL along with Crawford, Ellsbury, Kalish, McDonald and Repko. The Red Sox really need OF help. Heisey for Youkilis with the Sox evening the cash? Frazier can take Heisey's OF role with Ludwick while Youk plays 3B.

very doable...:beerme:

RedlegJake
05-21-2012, 10:32 PM
If you can get DeJesus from the Cubs you jump all over it and call leadoff and LF solved - I watched him in KC and he's a good professional hitter who plays the game hard and smart. RZers would love his approach to every at bat. Doesn't bowl you over with any tool but is solid in all of them. Seeing as they aren't in it anyway, and Epstein is different than a lot of GMs I think he would deal in division if it fit his vision of the Cubs going forward - re a couple of decent talents relatively close (AA or high A if really good). DeJesus won;t hurt the Cubs in a couple years and the players he'd acquire would just be chipping in which a reason the Reds need to look at doing it but to get this spot filled I'd do it and burn at least one really good B graded prospect and either Ludwick or Heisey.

mth123
05-21-2012, 10:44 PM
I guess, but I'd rather keep Heisey and trade Ludwick or Frazier. I'd trade them both Ludwick and Frazier for Youk and a decent backup player or prospect.

Heisey, Ludwick, and Frazier all have their virtues and their issues. But I'd rather keep Heisey than the other two because he is a very good defender and plays CF.

Doubt they'd take Ludwick. Frazier might interest them because he could play other spots when all those OF finally come back. I'd do either, but I wouldn't fret losing Heisey. I'd still like to see the Reds add a lefty bat to platoon in LF. If so, I like Frazier as a partner better than Heisey or Ludwick. Frazier is more of a pure lefty killer. His abilty to play IF also gives him more utility.

Kc61
05-21-2012, 11:09 PM
Doubt they'd take Ludwick. Frazier might interest them because he could play other spots when all those OF finally come back. I'd do either, but I wouldn't fret losing Heisey. I'd still like to see the Reds add a lefty bat to platoon in LF. If so, I like Frazier as a partner better than Heisey or Ludwick. Frazier is more of a pure lefty killer. His abilty to play IF also gives him more utility.

Ok, it's your trade, but Heisey's ability to play all three outfield positions is valuable to the Reds. When you talk to the Bosox, see if they'll take Ludwick and a medium prospect.

Kc61
05-21-2012, 11:10 PM
nm

mth123
05-21-2012, 11:15 PM
Ok, it's your trade, but Heisey's ability to play all three outfield positions is valuable to the Reds. When you talk to the Bosox, see if they'll take Ludwick and a medium prospect.

Sure, but they'll get better than Ludwick and a medium prospect somewhere else. But if they'd take him and a medium prospect, Lamarre say, while we keep Heisey and Frazier, gladly.

M2
05-22-2012, 01:01 PM
All right, I'm working past my frustration over the Reds not even making overtures to Bob Abreu (who's doing just dandy with the Dodgers so far). So let me toss a different name into the mix: Will Venable.

He hits LH. He can field. He can run. His career numbers have been dragged down by playing in Petco, but he'd be an effective platoon bat vs. RHPs. Best of all, the Padres likely wouldn't ask the moon for him.

pahster
05-22-2012, 01:12 PM
All right, I'm working past my frustration over the Reds not even making overtures to Bob Abreu (who's doing just dandy with the Dodgers so far). So let me toss a different name into the mix: Will Venable.

He hits LH. He can field. He can run. His career numbers have been dragged down by playing in Petco, but he'd be an effective platoon bat vs. RHPs. Best of all, the Padres likely wouldn't ask the moon for him.

Assuming the cost of acquiring him is reasonable, Venable seems like a solid target. He's not an OBP monster, but he gets on at an above average rate, something this Reds team sorely lacks. I haven't seen him play much, if at all, but the defensive metrics seem to suggest he's a bit above average. He doesn't hit much vs lefties, but that's okay because the Reds aren't overly deficient in that regard, at least from a true talent perspective.

Rojo
05-22-2012, 02:42 PM
Venable's career OBP vs. RHP isn't much higher than Stubb's. I'd take a flyer on him and cross my fingers that he's in the midst of a career year. But DeJesus is your man.

Benihana
05-22-2012, 03:10 PM
If we are targeting Padres OF, why not Carlos Quentin?

I know the Pads just acquired him this offseason (for basically nothing) and he makes his home in SD, but he could be "rented" by the Reds and would be free to re-sign with his hometown Padres in the offseason. He should be coming off the DL in the next couple weeks.

He would be a great RH bat in the cleanup spot between Votto and Bruce. Not exactly the best defensive LF, but no available cleanup hitter is.

We could even offer them Ludwick as a stopgap until Quentin returns home this offseason. Hell, if Quentin had a very productive 2nd half, he could hit 15-20 HRs and we could even give him a qualifying offer of $12MM, with the hope that he'd turn it down for a long-term deal in Southern California. Then we could get two more high draft picks. Worst case scenario, we have our cleanup hitting LF for one more season.

jojo
05-22-2012, 03:29 PM
I'd trade Chapman for Beltre and if the Reds could coax John Olerud to just sit on the bench so that cameras could pan to him wearing a Red's hard helmet once a game, I'd be the happiest Reds fan ever.

M2
05-22-2012, 03:36 PM
Venable's career OBP vs. isn't much higher than Stubb's. I'd take a flyer on him and cross my fingers that he's in the midst of a career year. But DeJesus is your man.

I worry that DeJesus' stick is getting a bit too soft. Also, Venable's hitting numbers are deceiving because of where he's played. Adjust his numbers for playing in the GAB instead of Petco and he'd have a career .342 OB and .445 SLG vs. RHPs. And he might be significantly better than that if he got liberated from San Diego. He's got a career .672 OPS in Petco against .790 outside of it. His home park has been killing him.

Reds Freak
05-22-2012, 03:55 PM
I worry that DeJesus' stick is getting a bit too soft.

Sounds like he has bigger problems than his OBP then...;)

corkedbat
05-22-2012, 04:10 PM
I've always been kinda 'meh' on DeJesus.

mdccclxix
05-22-2012, 06:12 PM
Dejesus is a career .369 OBP vs RHP, not only that, but he's

1) hit primarily leadoff
2) OBP vs RHP
2012 .385
2011 .357
2010 .396
3) is a lefty bat, so perfect for Dusty's lineup of l,r,l,r
4) he doesn't strike hardly at all
5) is signed for just 4 mil per year for this year and next with a buyout in 2014.

Others have already seen the light, but checking today it dawned on me as well. Dejesus would be great for this team. Shame he wasn't signed after a down year in Oakland canyon.

Playadlc
05-22-2012, 06:31 PM
All right, I'm working past my frustration over the Reds not even making overtures to Bob Abreu (who's doing just dandy with the Dodgers so far). So let me toss a different name into the mix: Will Venable.

He hits LH. He can field. He can run. His career numbers have been dragged down by playing in Petco, but he'd be an effective platoon bat vs. RHPs. Best of all, the Padres likely wouldn't ask the moon for him.

Venable’s career home/road splits, starting with 634 home AB and ending with 651 road AB:

.221/.298/.371 AVG/OBP/SLG, 18 HR, 75 R, 64 RBI, 27 SB
.280/.344/.447 AVG/OBP/SLG, 20 HR, 102 R, 85 RBI, 40 SB

Rojo
05-22-2012, 06:51 PM
Also, Venable's hitting numbers are deceiving because of where he's played. Adjust his numbers for playing in the GAB instead of Petco and he'd have a career .342 OB and .445 SLG vs. RHPs.

He's not much younger than DeJesus (who's stick softness I'll leave to others) and his OBP is much higher in the 7th and 2nd hole. We've already got that covered.

But I'm not against making a move for him. Like you mention, he'd probably come cheap. But he strikes me as a decent fourth OF only. I'd like a starter who's gotten it done in the lead off spot for years.

Vottomatic
05-22-2012, 07:17 PM
I doubt they'd trade him, but I'm starting to jump on the Choo wagon.

mth123
05-22-2012, 07:20 PM
All right, I'm working past my frustration over the Reds not even making overtures to Bob Abreu (who's doing just dandy with the Dodgers so far). So let me toss a different name into the mix: Will Venable.

He hits LH. He can field. He can run. His career numbers have been dragged down by playing in Petco, but he'd be an effective platoon bat vs. RHPs. Best of all, the Padres likely wouldn't ask the moon for him.

:thumbup: I've mentioned Venable before. I'd be happy with getting him. Could probably be had fairly cheaply.

mth123
05-22-2012, 07:26 PM
He's not much younger than DeJesus (who's stick softness I'll leave to others) and his OBP is much higher in the 7th and 2nd hole. We've already got that covered.

But I'm not against making a move for him. Like you mention, he'd probably come cheap. But he strikes me as a decent fourth OF only. I'd like a starter who's gotten it done in the lead off spot for years.

Problem is the Reds don't have much to deal. Even their best prospects are secondary guys and just about anyone who anyone would want on the big league roster would just leave a hole in a different spot. Incremental improvement with role players who can do what the guys on hand can't is the way for this team to improve IMO. Right now, we lack guys who can get on base against RHP. A guy like Venable would address that without creating another problem by acquiring him.

Degenerate39
05-22-2012, 09:49 PM
Get me Youk!

Rojo
05-23-2012, 01:04 AM
dp

brad1176
05-23-2012, 07:50 AM
Problem is the Reds don't have much to deal. Even their best prospects are secondary guys and just about anyone who anyone would want on the big league roster would just leave a hole in a different spot. Incremental improvement with role players who can do what the guys on hand can't is the way for this team to improve IMO. Right now, we lack guys who can get on base against RHP. A guy like Venable would address that without creating another problem by acquiring him.

You've summed this up very well mth. I'm with you on Venable, there's another player that we could add to this list: Juan Pierre. He's always gotten on base at a decent clip, bats left handed, has some speed left, and has experience leading off. The Phils wouldn't ask for much in return if they keep playing the way they have been, and he's only making 800k this year.

mth123
05-23-2012, 07:28 PM
You've summed this up very well mth. I'm with you on Venable, there's another player that we could add to this list: Juan Pierre. He's always gotten on base at a decent clip, bats left handed, has some speed left, and has experience leading off. The Phils wouldn't ask for much in return if they keep playing the way they have been, and he's only making 800k this year.

I'm less enamored with Pierre than with Venable or Dejesus (still like Seth Smith the best). Pierre hasn't put up a good OBP against RHP since 2009 and when he does get on base, he gives too much of his success back by getting thrown out. He's lead the league in Caught Stealing 7 times since 2001 (including 2010 and 2011). He also has a pretty weak arm which makes him a bit of a defensive liability.

I wouldn't mind adding him on the cheap, but I'd hope that getting him wouldn't cause the team to stop looking for better and with Dusty, I'm afraid that may happen.

Dan
05-24-2012, 09:48 AM
There are two moves to be made, I think. First, somehow get Kevin Youkilis sooner rather than later. Slot him between Votto and Bruce for now and move BP back to the top of the lineup. Bat Stubbs 6th and Cozart 2nd.

Then near the trade deadline, pick up a true #4 hitter. If the Phils continue to fall, Hunter Pence would be a great acquisition. So would Quentin if he's fully recovered. Bat him 4th, move Youk to #2, and Cozart to 7th. Have Stubbs, Cozart, Hanigan batting 6-9 would be like a new top of the order.

The last two months of the season:
BP
Youk
Votto
Pence
Bruce
Stubbs
Cozart
Mesigan

Now, will any of this happen? Who knows?

Benihana
05-24-2012, 10:01 AM
There are two moves to be made, I think. First, somehow get Kevin Youkilis sooner rather than later. Slot him between Votto and Bruce for now and move BP back to the top of the lineup. Bat Stubbs 6th and Cozart 2nd.

Then near the trade deadline, pick up a true #4 hitter. If the Phils continue to fall, Hunter Pence would be a great acquisition. So would Quentin if he's fully recovered. Bat him 4th, move Youk to #2, and Cozart to 7th. Have Stubbs, Cozart, Hanigan batting 6-9 would be like a new top of the order.

The last two months of the season:
BP
Youk
Votto
Pence
Bruce
Stubbs
Cozart
Mesigan

Now, will any of this happen? Who knows?

If the Reds could rent Youkilis and Quentin without giving up any significant major or minor league pieces (I'd give up any prospects not named Corcino, Stephenson or Hamilton), we could be serious World Series players.

BP
Youkilis
Votto
Quentin
Bruce
Stubbs
Hanigan
Cozart

is as good of a lineup as anyone in the league right now.

PuffyPig
05-24-2012, 10:12 AM
Last year Juan Pierre had 711 PA, didn't have a a particularly bad year (for him) and posted a -0.4 WAR according to FanGraphs.

He can't field, can't throw, can't hit, can't effectively steal, though he can run the bases. His OBA his last two seasons is only marginally better than Drew Stubbs.

_Sir_Charles_
05-24-2012, 10:56 AM
Last year Juan Pierre had 711 PA, didn't have a a particularly bad year (for him) and posted a -0.4 WAR according to FanGraphs.

He can't field, can't throw, can't hit, can't effectively steal, though he can run the bases. His OBA his last two seasons is only marginally better than Drew Stubbs.

Yeah, I was a little baffled by that suggestion too.

Vottomatic
05-24-2012, 05:27 PM
Dream lineup:

RF Bruce (LH)
2B Phillips (RH)
1B Votto (LH)
LF Stanton (RH) - dream of trading Chapman for him.
3B Youkilis (RH) - dream he's healthy and will rebound for a good season, and hoping the Reds pick him for next to nothing.
C Hanigan/Mez (RH)
SS Cozart (RH)
CF Stubbs (RH) - if he gets on, his speed causes problems when the pitcher sac bunts.

Notice I have Dusty's #1 and #2 hitters batting #7 and #8. Hehehe.

Kc61
05-24-2012, 05:45 PM
Dream lineup:

RF Bruce (LH)
2B Phillips (RH)
1B Votto (LH)
LF Stanton (RH) - dream of trading Chapman for him.
3B Youkilis (RH) - dream he's healthy and will rebound for a good season, and hoping the Reds pick him for next to nothing.
C Hanigan/Mez (RH)
SS Cozart (RH)
CF Stubbs (RH) - if he gets on, his speed causes problems when the pitcher sac bunts.

Notice I have Dusty's #1 and #2 hitters batting #7 and #8. Hehehe.

Your lineup and post make at least one very good point. I've often thought that when the day comes when Stubbs and Cozart are at the BOTTOM of this lineup instead of the top, then we'll know the Reds have a first rate offensive team.

And it doesn't take Stanton to accomplish that. Cheaper and lesser players could be added to the top half of Dusty's order.

As for Bruce leading off, I would opt for Hanigan or Youklis or Phillips leading off. Some of them might clog the bases, but they would be on the bases.

Hard to place Bruce in the lineup. Which Bruce?

jojo
05-24-2012, 08:33 PM
Prado was really the guy I wanted the Reds to get during the off season. He really doesn't have much of platoon split (i.e. has been above average against righties for his career) and is a plus defensive corner outfieder and a neutral defender at third for his career. The Braves were rumored to be open to trading him last off season.

He's exactly what this roster needs IMHO.

Dan
05-24-2012, 10:42 PM
If the Reds could rent Youkilis and Quentin without giving up any significant major or minor league pieces (I'd give up any prospects not named Corcino, Stephenson or Hamilton), we could be serious World Series players.

BP
Youkilis
Votto
Quentin
Bruce
Stubbs
Hanigan
Cozart

is as good of a lineup as anyone in the league right now.

You'd rather hang on to three guys who have barely, if at all, made it to AA yet than trade for a couple of pieces that would make this team a WS contender? Really?

reds44
05-24-2012, 10:47 PM
Quentin hasn't played this year and Youk is old and been bad this year. No grantees with either of them.

757690
05-24-2012, 10:59 PM
You'd rather hang on to three guys who have barely, if at all, made it to AA yet than trade for a couple of pieces that would make this team a WS contender? Really?

Reds are already a World Series contender this year. Adding another hitter or two would make them better, definitely, but no need to weaken their already weakened farm system for that improvement.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-25-2012, 07:43 AM
What would it take to get Willingham from the Twinkies?

I would offer them anything they want (on the farm), to go along with Ludwick or Heisey.

Marc D
05-25-2012, 12:20 PM
What would it take to get Willingham from the Twinkies?

I would offer them anything they want (on the farm), to go along with Ludwick or Heisey.

I've been thinking about the Twins and originally Span but what if we traded Leake/Bailey and Ludwick for Willingham and Glen Perkins?

Perkins to the pen, Chapman to rotation, Willingham to LF. Doesn't blow any holes in the current team and improves LF by a lot.

Money as always would be an issue, the more of it the Reds take on the more likely you could get both Willingham and Perkins for what is essentially Leake/Bailey.

Just a thought.

Johnny Footstool
05-25-2012, 12:38 PM
I get the feeling that the questions should start turning from "Who should the Reds trade for Youkilis" to "Who will the Reds trade for Youkilis."

_Sir_Charles_
05-25-2012, 02:57 PM
I just don't get all the love-fest for Youkilis. He used to be a great player IMO. But that day has past. He's currently an oft-injured, declining 3rd baseman both offensively and defensively. Ummm...don't we already have one of those?

Scrap Irony
05-25-2012, 04:28 PM
I get the feeling that the questions should start turning from "Who should the Reds trade for Youkilis" to "Who will the Reds trade for Youkilis."

Guessing, a combination of:
Heisey or Stubbs,
either HRod or Vidal,
either Corcino or Cingrani,
and either Gregorius or Hamilton,

It all depends on money.

Having said that, if Boston is planning of competing in 2012, an Arroyo (plus prospects or Heisey) for Youkilis deal makes odd sense for both teams, as does Leake or Bailey straight up.

mth123
05-25-2012, 05:02 PM
Guessing, a combination of:
Heisey or Stubbs,
either HRod or Vidal,
either Corcino or Cingrani,
and either Gregorius or Hamilton,

It all depends on money.

Having said that, if Boston is planning of competing in 2012, an Arroyo (plus prospects or Heisey) for Youkilis deal makes odd sense for both teams, as does Leake or Bailey straight up.

1. I think Youkilis will go for less. The Sox are in a bind and may be forced to get bodies that fit.
2. Arroyo is not going anywhere. The Reds won't weaken their pitching and they certainly won't deal the one guy whose shown he can get into the 7th consistently in July and August when the tired pen needs it most. Then there is that whole matter of his deferral coming due...

IMO, the Reds should pounce now while the Sox are desperate for OF help. Wait until their other guys start coming back and the price may just go up. Ludwick, Frazier and an arm from the minors (or Lecure or Simon if they want). They may take it to get AGON back on 1B. Maybe they'd want Francis.

I don't think I'd give much more. He may end-up back on the DL and his salary is pretty pricey.

Spitball
05-25-2012, 05:40 PM
1. I think Youkilis will go for less. The Sox are in a bind and may be forced to get bodies that fit.
2. Arroyo is not going anywhere. The Reds won't weaken their pitching and they certainly won't deal the one guy whose shown he can get into the 7th consistently in July and August when the tired pen needs it most. Then there is that whole matter of his deferral coming due...

IMO, the Reds should pounce now while the Sox are desperate for OF help. Wait until their other guys start coming back and the price may just go up. Ludwick, Frazier and an arm from the minors (or Lecure or Simon if they want). They may take it to get AGON back on 1B. Maybe they'd want Francis.

I don't think I'd give much more. He may end-up back on the DL and his salary is pretty pricey.

I don't know if the Sox will be that desperate to trade Youkilis if they continue to win with Adrian Gonzalez in right field. The move reminds me of Sparky Anderson's moving Pete Rose to third and putting George Foster in left. Rose was not a good third baseman, but the switch created an even more dominant offensive team.

Of course, Gonzalez hasn't played right in Fenway Park yet, and that is a fairly spacious expanse.

LegallyMinded
05-25-2012, 05:44 PM
I just don't get all the love-fest for Youkilis. He used to be a great player IMO. But that day has past. He's currently an oft-injured, declining 3rd baseman both offensively and defensively. Ummm...don't we already have one of those?


ZIPS has Youkilis projected for a .265/.368/.467 line for the rest of the season, while it projects Rolen at .243./299/.413. If you trust ZIPS at all, then, that's at least some justification for trading for Youkilis.

I more or less agree with you though-- given Youk's recent history, his salary, and his defensive shortcomings compared to Rolen, now does not seem like the right time to trade for him.

cincrazy
05-25-2012, 05:49 PM
The Twins just signed Willingham. Not sure why they'd want to move him right now, even with their terrible record. And it's going to be tough to find anything in this trade market, because more teams are going to be in it later into the season. The best deals may come in August this year.

mth123
05-25-2012, 05:54 PM
I don't know if the Sox will be that desperate to trade Youkilis if they continue to win with Adrian Gonzalez in right field. The move reminds me of Sparky Anderson's moving Pete Rose to third and putting George Foster in left. Rose was not a good third baseman, but the switch created an even more dominant offensive team.

Of course, Gonzalez hasn't played right in Fenway Park yet, and that is a fairly spacious expanse.

You're probably right. Catching the routine flyball really isn't that hard and its about what an OF does 90% of the time. If AGON is game and its doesn't hurt his bat, they could wait it out.

PuffyPig
05-25-2012, 07:11 PM
Guessing, a combination of:
Heisey or Stubbs,
either HRod or Vidal,
either Corcino or Cingrani,
and either Gregorius or Hamilton,

It all depends on money.

Having said that, if Boston is planning of competing in 2012, an Arroyo (plus prospects or Heisey) for Youkilis deal makes odd sense for both teams, as does Leake or Bailey straight up.

For Youkilis?

Massive overpayment Batmen.

I wouldn't give them Stubbs alone.

Johnny Footstool
05-25-2012, 07:44 PM
Youk is a Cincinnati boy, and Boston is pretty desperate to get rid of him. I don't necessarily think it's the best move for the Reds, but I think it's a natural fit.

Spitball
05-25-2012, 09:30 PM
Youk is a Cincinnati boy, and Boston is pretty desperate to get rid of him. I don't necessarily think it's the best move for the Reds, but I think it's a natural fit.

I'm not sure the Sox are desperate to rid themselves of Youkilis. He has hit pretty well since his return, and Middlebrooks has walked only three times versus 26 strikeouts. There are concerns about his next time through the league.

They have too many healthy infielders, but too many injuries in the outfield. With Byrd, Podsednik, and Nava in the outfield, they need players capable of providing some offense.

Vottomatic
05-27-2012, 07:45 AM
Another idea:

Say Bray and Masset come back healthy. Bullpen is clogged with arms.

Hoover was mostly a quality starter in the minors but has become a reliever (so was Wainwright and David Price for a short period).

Dangle Leake or Bailey for a quality LFer and move Hoover into the rotation?

Even if Masset and Bray don't come back, Donnie Joseph has been strong at triple A (one of the only bright spots). Trade Leake or Bailey for a solid LFer, move Hoover into the rotation, bring up Joseph.

Vottomatic
05-27-2012, 08:20 AM
The problem for the Reds, having looked at the trade target options, is they have zero payroll flexibility.

Looking at the teams that are already out of it and probably willing to deal, most of the players they'd be willing to deal come with a big price tag.

Best 3B target is David Wright. Mets won't be there in the end, and are looking to unload payroll. Wright currently leading mlb in batting average in the .390 range. Power numbers are down with only 5 HR's. Reds cannot afford him, unfortunately.

OF targets?

Melky Cabrera is having a coming out season for SF, with a .356 average, .401 OBP, .932 OPS, 7 stolen bases and 3 HR. Is he a top of the order guy, cause he doesn't look like a cleanup hitter except for average. San Fran has a $131M payroll this year, and Cabrera is signed for 1 yr / $6M, free agent next year. Dodgers are running away with the NL West. Cabrera turns 28 in August, and played 131 games in 2006. He's been in the league a long time starting at a young age. Always put up consistent good numbers. Is he hitting his prime? Hmmm.

Carlos Lee? Dude's power numbers are dropping yearly and badly. He is currently hitting .301 with a .356 OBP. Last year of his contract making $19M with no buyout next season - straight to free agency. He turns 36 in June. I'm not really interested in him. Like Cabrera, another rental. Rather have Cabrera. Lee doesn't strike fear into opposing pitchers like he once did.

Just for the record, most of the top hitting OFers play for current contenders (like that's a surprise) - Josh Hamilton (TEX) .376, Cabrera .356 (SF), McCutcheon (Pit).338, Prado (Atl).333, Jackson (Det) .331, Ethier (LAD) .323, Braun (Mil) .312, AJones (Bal) .309, Pagan (SF) .306, Span (Min) .305, Bourn (Atl) .304, CLee (Hou) .301, LaHair (CHC).299, CGonzalez (Col) .298, Stanton (Mia) .296.........

Pittsburgh isn't trading McCutcheon. Milwaukee isn't trading Braun. Cargo comes with a big price tag and the Rockies aren't trading him. LaHair is unproven and still a question mark to me.......and I'm not crazy trading within the division. Doubt the Cubs want to trade him anyway.

I'm interested in Choo from Cleveland, too.

Really not many choices financially to target.

I guess if you could get Cabrera rather cheap, since he's a rental, his OBP makes him a good top of the order bat. But Dusty doesn't believe in OBP. Go figure. I did read the other day that SF was considering extending Cabrera though.

Vottomatic
05-27-2012, 04:03 PM
If Cargo were available, what would it take to get him?

mace
05-27-2012, 04:34 PM
If Dexter Fowler could be reasonably had--he seems to have lost his starting job in Colorado--I'd be very interested. He's only 26, won't be a free agent until 2016, very fast, a switch-hitter (pretty even splits), and has a career OBP of .354 with a lot of doubles and especially triples. I suspect that a CF shared by Stubbs and Fowler would make both players better, and make the position much better for the Reds. In my view, Fowler could nicely solve the leadoff spot--at least part-time. (As much as I can't stand the concept of Stubbs leading off, he could realistically handle it against LH starters, against whom he has a .350 career OBP.)

membengal
05-27-2012, 06:09 PM
Wouldn't mind Fowler, but he hasn't lost the starting gig in Colorado...he's been getting over an ankle injury this week...he rolled it about four games ago.

mace
05-27-2012, 06:44 PM
Wouldn't mind Fowler, but he hasn't lost the starting gig in Colorado...he's been getting over an ankle injury this week...he rolled it about four games ago.

Hm. Didn't realize that. Thom said he asked Tracy about it before the series and Tracy said that Fowler hadn't been challenged the last couple years, but now he's being outplayed by Colvin. Probably a little bit of both.

RedlegJake
05-27-2012, 07:47 PM
Daniel Robertson, San Diego's AAA Ofer, would look good and makes minimum, rarely K's, high OBP, but you have to be willing to think out of the box. The guy is flat out an on base machine. Gap power. He's a little guy at 5-9 ish but has hit at every level but unfortunately he's a left fielder. That's the knock, The ONLY knock I hear from anyone. Yeah well he plays left and he can't hit for power. If only he played 2nd. Or Center. The guy OBP's .400 or near it every year. He rarely strikes out. He runs well. The Reds have above average power in center and at second, good power at short, and with Mes, at catcher. Great power with Bruce in right and with Joey at first. Sure as the devil they could afford to lose power in left to have a guy OBP'ing .400 at the top of the lineup! And I think you could get Robertson for a song.

They'll never do it. No one would. Too fixated on that gotta hit for power to play left thing. Sigh. Give me the old days of Gwynn and Pete playing left and baseball rats counting for something.

Vottomatic
05-27-2012, 08:18 PM
Daniel Robertson, San Diego's AAA Ofer, would look good and makes minimum, rarely K's, high OBP, but you have to be willing to think out of the box. The guy is flat out an on base machine. Gap power. He's a little guy at 5-9 ish but has hit at every level but unfortunately he's a left fielder. That's the knock, The ONLY knock I hear from anyone. Yeah well he plays left and he can't hit for power. If only he played 2nd. Or Center. The guy OBP's .400 or near it every year. He rarely strikes out. He runs well. The Reds have above average power in center and at second, good power at short, and with Mes, at catcher. Great power with Bruce in right and with Joey at first. Sure as the devil they could afford to lose power in left to have a guy OBP'ing .400 at the top of the lineup! And I think you could get Robertson for a song.

They'll never do it. No one would. Too fixated on that gotta hit for power to play left thing. Sigh. Give me the old days of Gwynn and Pete playing left and baseball rats counting for something.

Yeah, I was looking at triple A guys on other teams that might help. Like you, I was looking at guys with high OBP and not necessarily much power.

Arizona has a guy in triple A from Springboro, Ohio named Adam Eaton. Another guy like the guy you mentioned. Only 5'-9", but he's hitting .380 with a really high OBP and he can steal bases.

Dodgers have Andy Van Slyke's kid, hitting .330 or so in triple A with a high OBP and the Dodgers OF is set.

Saw another guy, trying to think of his name. I noticed he was blocked at the major leagues with his team and he was only like 23. Hit for average with a good OBP.

Of course, then there's always Melky Cabrera hitting like .350 for San Fran with an OBP over .400. Hit his 4th HR today.

I'm thinking like you. If we can't solve the cleanup hitter situation, then let's get guys with high OBP at the top of the order to knock in.

Here's your guy: http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=robert002dan

Considering the Reds don't have much in the way of OFers at triple A, he'd be worth a look. Personally, I'm not sold on Ludwick at all.

Another guy at Arizona's triple A team is Jake Elmore (24 years old). Kid has played mostly 2B, but then some SS and 3B, and a little OF. Guy is batting .400 in 150 at-bats, with OBP of .503, 15 stolen bases and only 1 HR.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=elmore001jac
He and Eaton lack power but apparently can hit and steal bases. I guess the D-backs are set with Kubel, Young and Upton in their OF.

PuffyPig
05-27-2012, 08:27 PM
If Cargo were available, what would it take to get him?


If Votto was available, what would it take to get him?