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Who Dey Time
05-08-2012, 05:14 PM
Keep it rolling......

Cozart SS
Stubbs CF
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Bruce RF
Rolen 3B
Ludwick LF
Mesoraco C
Bailey P

Helms1
05-08-2012, 05:47 PM
Frazier for Rolen tomorrow I assume.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 05:56 PM
why don't they put rolen 8th. maybe he might get a pitch.

Tadasimha
05-08-2012, 07:13 PM
Might be interesting to push up Mesoraco to 7th ahead of Ludwick, get Rolen some better pitches since Ludwick isn't even hitting his weight.

Bailey seems to have a good relationship with Mesoraco, he's pitched well his last three outings with Mes behind the plate.

The Rage
05-08-2012, 07:19 PM
Big start for Bailey. He needs to show something more than before against this injury riddled struggling offense.

Rolen has to be about due for a injury.

Stray
05-08-2012, 07:46 PM
The way the Brewers are swinging the bat I wouldn't give Braun anything to hit. Nibble and see if he gets himself out.

brm7675
05-08-2012, 08:02 PM
Big start for Bailey. He needs to show something more than before against this injury riddled struggling offense.

Rolen has to be about due for a injury.

I am no Bailey fan but outside of basically 1 inning in his first start he has more then done well as the No. 4 slot pitcher in the rotation. Exactly what do you want him to show?

brm7675
05-08-2012, 08:03 PM
Big start for Bailey. He needs to show something more than before against this injury riddled struggling offense.

Rolen has to be about due for a injury.

Why would you wish an injury on anyone?:thumbdown:

The Rage
05-08-2012, 08:19 PM
I am no Bailey fan but outside of basically 1 inning in his first start he has more then done well as the No. 4 slot pitcher in the rotation. Exactly what do you want him to show?

To pitch up to 2/3 and knock Arroyo down a notch. Would give the Reds a real shot to win the whole thing. If he doesn't, your stuck with Arroyo and Chapman, who they don't want to overly start in that spot this season.

Alot more riding on Bailey than I think people understand.

New York Red
05-08-2012, 08:24 PM
Bailey has been similar to Bronson so far -- quality starts but not much support from the Reds offense. He hasn't been great, but he should have more than one win. Hopefully, now that the Reds offense is slowly warming up, he'll get win #2 tonight. Pitch around Braun (and carefully to Weeks and Ramirez) and I don't think the rest of the Brewers offense has enough firepower to beat us.

New York Red
05-08-2012, 08:26 PM
To pitch up to 2/3 and knock Arroyo down a notch. Would give the Reds a real shot to win the whole thing. If he doesn't, your stuck with Arroyo and Chapman, who they don't want to overly start in that spot this season.

Alot more riding on Bailey than I think people understand.
I agree with this. We need Bailey to take over, and secure, the #3 spot in the rotation. But we need him to do it because he pitches well, not because Bronson falls off.

TheBigLebowski
05-08-2012, 08:43 PM
There are some of us still holding out hope that Homer will become the ace he was advertised to be in the minors. I am one of those people.

New York Red
05-08-2012, 08:49 PM
I know he's struggling badly, but I love watching Scott Rolen on tech talk.

New York Red
05-08-2012, 08:52 PM
There are some of us still holding out hope that Homer will become the ace he was advertised to be in the minors. I am one of those people.
I haven't given up on that happening, but I'm not as hopeful as I once was -- especially now that Cueto has taken his game to another level and we've added a potential stud in Latos. If Bailey becomes the ace of this staff, with the pieces we have in place, that would be quite an accomplishment. Not to mention what it would do for the future of the organization.

TheBigLebowski
05-08-2012, 08:57 PM
I haven't given up on that happening, but I'm not as hopeful as I once was -- especially now that Cueto has taken his game to another level and we've added a potential stud in Latos. If Bailey becomes the ace of this staff, with the pieces we have in place, that would be quite an accomplishment. Not to mention what it would do for the future of the organization.

I don't care about his place in the hierarchy of the Reds' rotation - I just want him to pitch like a TOR guy.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:13 PM
the 1st strike was def a ball

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:15 PM
Gallardo walks Votto. 2 Ks. 0-0. I remember when people were debating who would be better - Gallardo, Bailey or Hughes.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:17 PM
espn gamecast i don't think adjust to the hitter is there anything better?

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:18 PM
espn gamecast i don't think adjust to the hitter is there anything better?

I watch on mlb.com. Gameday. No idea if it any better though.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:20 PM
Tony Plush leading off.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:21 PM
its crazy how differ they are

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:22 PM
Closing the roof. Plush Ks. Homer in the mid-90s here early.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:24 PM
Rickie Weeks is 10 for 17 against Bailey. Yikes!

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:26 PM
Cozart fields and fires.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:26 PM
we need quick out here

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:28 PM
Bailey throwing a number of pitches here in the first.
Base hit Braun.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:30 PM
he's not doing bad just taking a lot pitches

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:31 PM
Reds' pitchers are picking off a ton of runners. Almost got another one. Bailey hits Ramirez on an 0-2 pitch.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:32 PM
ouch

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:33 PM
Nothing but fastballs. 30+ pitches. Another full count.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:34 PM
we need a strike

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:35 PM
:(

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:35 PM
Walked him. I guess Homer wants to try for 40 pitches in the first.

Slick
05-08-2012, 09:36 PM
Anybody else getting boxing on the fox sports ohio hd feed? Getting the reds game on standard def fox sports ohio but blah... Last night and tonight audio goes out here and there but comes right back. Anybody else having these issues?

TheBigLebowski
05-08-2012, 09:36 PM
Oh, Homer...

Stray
05-08-2012, 09:36 PM
Coincidence that this happens a lot with Mes catching, or is it because of the guys Mes catches?

You have a 95 mph fastball working, go after them.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:37 PM
Don't the pitch calls come from the dugout? Why would it matter who catches?

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:37 PM
it seems they see homer ball well. 95 mph and they just foul until walk or get a hit.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:37 PM
One pitch he can be out of it. One pitch it could be 4-run deficit. Flip a coin.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:37 PM
Don't the pitch calls come from the dugout? Why would it matter who catches?

ryan h said he calls his own game

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:38 PM
Two-run single.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:38 PM
:( damn

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:38 PM
First two batters out. Single, HBP, Walk, Single.

Spider Tre
05-08-2012, 09:38 PM
maybe Homer will breakout next year...

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:38 PM
37 pitches.

Stray
05-08-2012, 09:39 PM
Are we calling this from the dugout? Why is Homer shaking him off so much then?

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:39 PM
Homer Volquez.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:39 PM
of course he gets ahead of every1 also

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:39 PM
I thought I heard someone say the bench calls it. Maybe they don't.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:39 PM
40 pitches. Can I get a 50?

Red Raindog
05-08-2012, 09:40 PM
stupid -- just plain stupid

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:40 PM
hopefully he gets thru 1

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:40 PM
took long enough

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:40 PM
K. Thank you. Everyone in the bullpen put those hot dogs down. Looking like a bullpen night.

Mutaman
05-08-2012, 09:40 PM
Good pitch by Homer on the 0-2 count. Not.

George Foster
05-08-2012, 09:41 PM
Bailey does not pitch smart...never really has. Has better than average stuff, below average brains. an 0-2 pitch right down the middle with the bases loaded....really?

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:41 PM
chance ludwick or rolen get a hit 2night?

DocRed
05-08-2012, 09:41 PM
Bailey is a headcase...he will never be a great pitcher with this coaching staff. Someplace else...maybe.

Stray
05-08-2012, 09:41 PM
I don't think Homer and Mes were on the same page at all. That is the kinda thing that they need to figure out before the game starts, if you're shaking your catcher off 2 and 3 times per pitch there's going to be problems.

The Rage
05-08-2012, 09:44 PM
Mes deserves most of the blame.

Mutaman
05-08-2012, 09:44 PM
Bailey is a headcase...he will never be a great pitcher with this coaching staff. Someplace else...maybe.

What's the coaching staff got to do with it?

George Foster
05-08-2012, 09:44 PM
I don't think Homer and Mes were on the same page at all. That is the kinda thing that they need to figure out before the game starts, if you're shaking your catcher off 2 and 3 times per pitch there's going to be problems.

Mes does not impress me behind the plate. You get the feeling that he's just catching...not in charge, not connnected. Unlike our starting catcher last night:thumbup:

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:46 PM
What's the coaching staff got to do with it?

why is it the pitching staff problem (always) when someone's a head case?


cueto looks good

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:47 PM
Tony Plush robs Rolen.

The Rage
05-08-2012, 09:47 PM
why is it the pitching staff problem (always) when someone's a head case


cueto looks good

Cueto pitches with Hanigan most of the time besides teams still figuring out his new mechanics. Mes was just flat awful that inning. Extended it wayyyyyyyyy more than it should have gone.

Stray
05-08-2012, 09:47 PM
Gotta feel for Rolen. Not many of those are dropping for him.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:47 PM
Cueto pitches with Hanigan most of the time besides teams still figuring out his new mechanics. Mes was just flat awful that inning. Extended it wayyyyyyyyy more than it should have gone.

didn't some1 say he does well with bailey?

George Foster
05-08-2012, 09:47 PM
not our night....just don't feel it...good catch

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:48 PM
Homer right back out there.

TheBigLebowski
05-08-2012, 09:48 PM
Wow - definitely not our night

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:48 PM
the night is young

Spazzrico
05-08-2012, 09:49 PM
Mes was just flat awful that inning. Extended it wayyyyyyyyy more than it should have gone.

Please explain this to me? Is he actually calling the game? Why was it Mes' fault?

George Foster
05-08-2012, 09:49 PM
Ludwick....washed up?

Mutaman
05-08-2012, 09:49 PM
why is it the pitching staff problem (always) when someone's a head case?


cueto looks good

Please translate.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:49 PM
Ludwick....washed up?

Possibly. Probably.

Ironman92
05-08-2012, 09:50 PM
Defense much?

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:50 PM
mes lays the sign down but its still up to bailey.

The Rage
05-08-2012, 09:50 PM
didn't some1 say he does well with bailey?

Good with Bailey? Something he doesn't do with any pitcher. It is a struggle. Bailey had damn fine stuff wasted that inning. They hit nothing hard.

Stray
05-08-2012, 09:50 PM
Mes has all of the tools and I think he's gonna be really good. Calling the game and handling our pitching staff is the kind of thing that will have to come with experience.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:51 PM
so when latos had a bad month in april for sd was it mes fault also? was it mes fault leake thru his 91 mph fastball down the plate?

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 09:52 PM
Until Homer Bailey starts getting that Strikeout or Groundout when he's got multiple runners on base, in other words, showing the ability to get himself out of trouble by himself, then he's never going to be anything more than a #5 Starter. He's got the physical ability. It's always, at least for him, to be the mental toughness/intelligence, to step it up a notch when he needs it.

Mutaman
05-08-2012, 09:52 PM
Everyone here was bashing Baker because he didn't start Meseraco enough until somebody figured out Hannigan's won-loss record. Now its throw Mes to the wolves and catch Ryan every game.

George Foster
05-08-2012, 09:52 PM
Mes has all of the tools and I think he's gonna be really good. Calling the game and handling our pitching staff is the kind of thing that will have to come with experience.

This is not a year were you can have a catcher out there trying to gain experience at the expense of the team. This is a year when the Reds have spent a ton of money and the Central is ours to win. Hannigan should start every game but night-day games that are back to back.

Stray
05-08-2012, 09:53 PM
I'm not saying it's all on Mes, the pitchers still have to make pitches. It is just obvious sometimes that his idea of how the game is going to be called is way different than the pitchers. He has to be on the same page with them.

Spider Tre
05-08-2012, 09:54 PM
here we go again...

George Foster
05-08-2012, 09:54 PM
0-2 pitch again...wow

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:54 PM
I'm not saying it's all on Mes, the pitchers still have to make pitches. It is just obvious sometimes that his idea of how the game is going to be called is way different than the pitchers. He has to be on the same page with them.


i could agree with this.

it just seems some are saying a pitcher being bad is all on mes and theres just no way.

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 09:54 PM
Bailey has been similar to Bronson so far -- quality starts but not much support from the Reds offense. Son't know how you can such a thing. Bailey's ERA is closer to 6 than it is to 5. That's not Arroyo territory for 2012.

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 09:55 PM
There are some of us still holding out hope that Homer will become the ace he was advertised to be in the minors. I am one of those people.As am I. And, I think the REDS' brass feels the same way, or they would have jettisoned him a long time ago.

Red Raindog
05-08-2012, 09:57 PM
Everyone here was bashing Baker because he didn't start Meseraco enough until somebody figured out Hannigan's won-loss record. Now its throw Mes to the wolves and catch Ryan every game.

Not me -- don't throw me under that bus

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:57 PM
wtf?

George Foster
05-08-2012, 09:57 PM
As am I. And, I think the REDS' brass feels the same way, or they would have jettisoned him a long time ago.

This is his 84th or 87th start in the big leagues..Homer is what he is...

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 09:57 PM
I haven't given up on that happening, but I'm not as hopeful as I once was -- especially now that Cueto has taken his game to another level and we've added a potential stud in Latos. If Bailey becomes the ace of this staff, with the pieces we have in place, that would be quite an accomplishment. Not to mention what it would do for the future of the organization. An "ACE" is probably stretching it for how I feel, but a guy who could keep his ERA around 3.00 for 3-4 years is what I was eventually hoping for.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:57 PM
Pitch number 60.

Spider Tre
05-08-2012, 09:57 PM
you're kidding...

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:57 PM
omg

George Foster
05-08-2012, 09:58 PM
Homer scared to throw a stike to a guy batting 167...to face the MVP.

Stray
05-08-2012, 09:58 PM
See right there. That is 3-2 to Rickie Weeks who is struggling, with the reigning MVP Braun on deck who is on fire. Why in the hell would you call a breaking ball?

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 09:58 PM
Here's where Bailey has to improve as a pitcher....when he's in trouble, and he needs to bear down and come up with the K or the easy groundout.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:58 PM
Two on for Ryan Braun. Not good.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:59 PM
See right there. That is 3-2 to Rickie Weeks who is struggling, with the reigning MVP Braun on deck who is on fire. Why in the hell would you call a breaking ball?

Bailey can shake him off.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 09:59 PM
See right there. That is 3-2 to Rickie Weeks who is struggling, with the reigning MVP Braun on deck who is on fire. Why in the hell would you call a breaking ball?

b/c he's a fastball hitter. if bailey does not think he can throw it call him off.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 09:59 PM
And Weeks was 10 for 17 against Homer coming into the game.

40YrRedsFan
05-08-2012, 10:00 PM
Homer will be lucky to get through 4 innings tonight

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:01 PM
that fast ball is as straight as an arrow

Stray
05-08-2012, 10:01 PM
Bailey can shake him off.

And he should have. I don't care how big of a fastball hitter Weeks is, you can't make that pitch or call in that situation. Not with Ryan Braun on deck.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 10:01 PM
3-0

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:01 PM
Ground rule double. Caught a break. 3-0.

Stray
05-08-2012, 10:01 PM
Because MVPs beat you.

Spider Tre
05-08-2012, 10:02 PM
this is starting to get comical

40YrRedsFan
05-08-2012, 10:02 PM
Get Homer out of there......he has nothing

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:02 PM
All with 2 outs....again. Batting practice breaking ball to the MVP...nice choice.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:02 PM
68 pitches. Ugly.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 10:02 PM
Because MVPs beat you.

call him off then.

good pitchers can throw any pitch

1869's Original
05-08-2012, 10:02 PM
why is Homer still in this game?

Has Dusty any sense?

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 10:03 PM
why is Homer still in this game?

Has Dusty any sense?

i hope ur kidding.

wvreds
05-08-2012, 10:03 PM
I have now determined Homer is the weakest link of the staff

40YrRedsFan
05-08-2012, 10:03 PM
Revise my previous post...Homer will be lucky to get through three innings:eek:

Stray
05-08-2012, 10:04 PM
call him off then.

good pitchers can throw any pitch

Again, I think the blame lies on both. Both of them should be smart enough to understand the situation, at the very least one of them should. In that case neither were.

If Rickie Weeks beats you so be it, you gotta make him do it instead of Braun.

The Rage
05-08-2012, 10:04 PM
Son't know how you can such a thing. Bailey's ERA is closer to 6 than it is to 5. That's not Arroyo territory for 2012.

Except then Arroyo gets rocked 3 straight starts.........

Bailey is a notorious slow starter. He struggles to hold his stuff early in the year and is breaking stuff is erratic. See 2006,2009. Then it comes together.

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:05 PM
Get Homer out of there......he has nothing

actually his fast ball is topping out at 95 tonight...good stuff actually. But Arroyo proved again last night you throw fast for show...you actually pitch for dough!!

Homer needs to learn how to actually pitch in the big leagues. He's been a big league pitcher since 2008...he is what he is.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 10:05 PM
bailey a thrower not a pitcher

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:05 PM
Again, I think the blame lies on both. Both of them should be smart enough to understand the situation, at the very least one of them should. In that case neither were.

If Rickie Weeks beats you so be it, you gotta make him do it instead of Braun.

They go over how to work every hitter before the game. I am sure they can ask Price between innings. It shouldn't be that hard.

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 10:05 PM
Bailey does not pitch smart...never really has. Has better than average stuff, below average brains. an 0-2 pitch right down the middle with the bases loaded....really?This time it was a Curveball that just floated over the middle of the plate. You're right. Homer does not pitch smart. Never has, which makes me think that he never will. Talent isn't enough to pitch well in the Majors. You have to pitch smart. If Bailey doesn't get it this year, I don't think the REDS are going to keep him after this. What else can they teach him at this point? It's on him to wake up and not pitch like an idiot.

Mutaman
05-08-2012, 10:05 PM
Except then Arroyo gets rocked 3 straight starts.........

Bailey is a notorious slow starter. He struggles to hold his stuff early in the year and is breaking stuff is erratic. See 2006,2009. Then it comes together.


Plus these are meaningless spring games.

The Rage
05-08-2012, 10:06 PM
bailey a thrower not a pitcher

Yup, and he isn't throwing well. Throw well, problem solved. Alot of good "pitchers" are great throwers first.

1869's Original
05-08-2012, 10:06 PM
bailey a thrower not a pitcher

no - he's definitely a pitcher, with great pitches too

it's on management for not giving him the coaching necessary to teach him what to do in situations like this

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:07 PM
We want a pitcher, not a glass of water.

Who Dey Time
05-08-2012, 10:08 PM
Mesoraco has no understanding how to get big leaguers out which, being a rookie, I understand.

Doesn't help to catch a guy that has zero confidence in his own ability either.

Stray
05-08-2012, 10:09 PM
They go over how to work every hitter before the game. I am sure they can ask Price between innings. It shouldn't be that hard.

You know that could be it, that they're just sticking to the gameplan. That's not a terrible thing but I just think that you pitch to the situation there, not the gameplan.

1869's Original
05-08-2012, 10:09 PM
Mesoraco has no understanding how to get big leaguers out which, being a rookie, I understand.

Doesn't help to catch a guy that has zero confidence in his own ability either.

hitting the nail on the head

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:09 PM
no - he's definitely a pitcher, with great pitches too

it's on management for not giving him the coaching necessary to teach him what to do in situations like this

He's an adult. A big league pitcher. There comes a point that you have to do it. This is not little league. He has the ball in his hands. Leake is younger, smarter, and does not have nearly the arm Bailey has. Leake has gotten the message...Bailey has not.

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 10:09 PM
Ludwick....washed up?Never was any good. Certainly isn't any good now.

40YrRedsFan
05-08-2012, 10:10 PM
Our left fielder has hit three HR tonight (for Texas)....Hamilton now has 13 HR's

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 10:11 PM
Mes has all of the tools and I think he's gonna be really good. Calling the game and handling our pitching staff is the kind of thing that will have to come with experience.Takes at least two years.

The Rage
05-08-2012, 10:11 PM
He's an adult. A big league pitcher. There comes a point that you have to do it. This is not little league. He has the ball in his hands. Leake is younger, smarter, and does not have nearly the arm Bailey has. Leake has gotten the message...Bailey has not.

Whatever. Leake hasn't done anything other than hope and pray. What message is there to give?

Mes is a HUGE factor of bad catching tonight besides Bailey's breaking stuff not up to speed yet.

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:11 PM
Mesoraco has no understanding how to get big leaguers out which, being a rookie, I understand.

Doesn't help to catch a guy that has zero confidence in his own ability either.

Hannigan should start 140 games this season...he won't...and it will cost us.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:12 PM
3-0 and he strikes him out.

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:13 PM
Stubbs should be batting 10th.....

40YrRedsFan
05-08-2012, 10:13 PM
One hit through 3....not looking promising

Stray
05-08-2012, 10:13 PM
Looks like he swung at a couple of ball 4s

1869's Original
05-08-2012, 10:13 PM
He's an adult. A big league pitcher. There comes a point that you have to do it. This is not little league. He has the ball in his hands. Leake is younger, smarter, and does not have nearly the arm Bailey has. Leake has gotten the message...Bailey has not.

He's a young man who, regardless of his intelligence, lacks the experience in situations like this. If we had a manager like Tony La Russa who called every pitch - knowing full well that his own experience trumps that of his young players - this would not happen.

I love Bailey as much as anyone - he needs a coaching staff that doesn't just say "Here ya go! Go out there and have fun - we won't pull you out of the game if you do poorly!" That's the true 'little league' aspect of this team. A manager and staff that doesn't manage might as well be fans sitting in the dugout.

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 10:14 PM
This is his 84th or 87th start in the big leagues..Homer is what he is...That's what I mean. He's fortunate to have had that many starts by the young age that he is right now, but after this season, if he hasn't figured it out, it's time to move on.

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:14 PM
He's a young man who, regardless of his intelligence, lacks the experience in situations like this. If we had a manager like Tony La Russa who called every pitch - knowing full well that his own experience trumps that of his young players - this would not happen.

I love Bailey as much as anyone - he needs a coaching staff that doesn't just say "Here ya go! Go out there and have fun - we won't pull you out of the game if you do poorly!" That's the true 'little league' aspect of this team. A manager and staff that doesn't manage might as well be fans sitting in the dugout.

Lacks experience????? This is his 84th start in the majors???

The Rage
05-08-2012, 10:15 PM
He's a young man who, regardless of his intelligence, lacks the experience in situations like this. If we had a manager like Tony La Russa who called every pitch - knowing full well that his own experience trumps that of his young players - this would not happen.

I love Bailey as much as anyone - he needs a coaching staff that doesn't just say "Here ya go! Go out there and have fun - we won't pull you out of the game if you do poorly!" That's the true 'little league' aspect of this team. A manager and staff that doesn't manage might as well be fans sitting in the dugout.

I agree with this. I think the Reds know if he hits another organization, it will look bad on them so they wait.

1869's Original
05-08-2012, 10:16 PM
Lacks experience????? This is his 84th start in the majors???

If I go out and throw 84 terrible games in the majors, would you expect me to suddenly turn it around once I hit that number? Of course not - he has no experience with WINNING. That's what Homer needs, what a manager should be able to give him, and what he would get at a different organization.

The Rage
05-08-2012, 10:17 PM
Lacks experience????? This is his 84th start in the majors???

Who cares how many starts he has. The Reds mentallity doesn't fit Bailey. Look how his stuff has fallen off after the first inning "Mes". He needs a more hands on approach to pitching, one the Reds don't have. Guys like Mes don't help it out any.

Who Dey Time
05-08-2012, 10:17 PM
Hannigan should start 140 games this season...he won't...and it will cost us.

140 is too much. And I agree with how they are using Mesoraco. He's basically assigned to one pitcher to learn his stuff so he can better understand how to call a game. Then he'll get an extra game a week or so.

I just question why he was assigned to the one pitcher that could probably benefit from Hanigan the most.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:18 PM
Homer is throwing is fastball 4-5 MPH slower this inning than the first.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:19 PM
1-2-3 in the third. When did Hanigan enter the game? LOL.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:19 PM
Reds struck for five in the fourth last night. Be nice to see that again.

1869's Original
05-08-2012, 10:19 PM
1-2-3 in the third. When did Hanigan enter the game? LOL.

lol:beerme:

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:20 PM
If I go out and throw 84 terrible games in the majors, would you expect me to suddenly turn it around once I hit that number? Of course not - he has no experience with WINNING. That's what Homer needs, what a manager should be able to give him, and what he would get at a different organization.

Dusty's not pitching...Homer is. This pitcing staff is ranked 3rd in the national league so far this year and Homer is the weak link...Your logic does not make since because the rest of the staff is pitching pretty good. Chapman who can't speak english and has only been in this country for 3 years is now pitching instead of throwing. It's not the staff's problem or there would be a lot more problems.

Falcon7
05-08-2012, 10:20 PM
Our left fielder has hit three HR tonight (for Texas)....Hamilton now has 13 HR's

Who was that awesome pitcher we got for him?

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:20 PM
Maybe Homer gets better movement when he throws it a little slower.

The Rage
05-08-2012, 10:21 PM
Maybe Homer gets better movement when he throws it a little slower.

He wasn't throwing it slower. Basically throwing 2 seamers. His 4 seamer declined to 93-94mph after a strong first. Probably because he lost his confidence after that rediculous 1st inning.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:22 PM
I really have trouble following the action when Brantley goes solo.

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:23 PM
Votto is way I pay money to see the reds....special, special player.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 10:24 PM
I really have trouble following the action when Brantley goes solo.

watch tv?

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:25 PM
Not in Houston. I have Dish and they don't offer an MLB package.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 10:25 PM
wow

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:25 PM
Reds catch a break.

Stray
05-08-2012, 10:25 PM
Lets go Bruce

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 10:26 PM
guess who is up

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:26 PM
That was the guy they wanted up. Maybe Rolen will hit one six inches further this time.

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 10:26 PM
It's amazing Bruce is only batting .167 w/ RISP.

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:27 PM
It's amazing Bruce is only batting .167 w/ RISP.

sounds like Dunn's numbers

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 10:27 PM
50-50 chance at a GODP here?

40YrRedsFan
05-08-2012, 10:27 PM
Hamilton has hit 4 HR's tonight in Baltimore

Who Dey Time
05-08-2012, 10:27 PM
It's amazing Bruce is only batting .167 w/ RISP.

Precisely why he is not and should not be the 4-hitter.

Todd Gack
05-08-2012, 10:27 PM
Jay's splits with and without runners on are pretty scary this year.

Stray
05-08-2012, 10:27 PM
two pop outs

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:27 PM
Come on, Ludwick.

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 10:27 PM
Hamilton has hit 4 HR's tonight in Baltimore

woow

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:28 PM
Brutal...

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 10:28 PM
Hamilton has hit 4 HR's tonight in BaltimoreOK. I'm ready to say that was a bad trade.

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:30 PM
OK. I'm ready to say that was a bad trade.

We parlayed the trade to the Padres for a front end of the rotation pitcher....

The Rage
05-08-2012, 10:30 PM
Good chance for Mes to make amends.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:30 PM
I'd like to see Devin hit Bernie Brewer.

Stray
05-08-2012, 10:30 PM
18 total bases, wow

40YrRedsFan
05-08-2012, 10:31 PM
Hamilton is also 5 for 5 and may get another at bat

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:32 PM
Walk him please.

1869's Original
05-08-2012, 10:32 PM
Dusty's not pitching...Homer is. This pitcing staff is ranked 3rd in the national league so far this year and Homer is the weak link...Your logic does not make since because the rest of the staff is pitching pretty good. Chapman who can't speak english and has only been in this country for 3 years is now pitching instead of throwing. It's not the staff's problem or there would be a lot more problems.

You are ignoring my point - lemme break it down:
this performance is not entirely on Homer's shoulders because...
- he's only 26
- pitchers don't usually hit their prime until 28 or 29
- he could even be behind that pace because he's played for a players' manager his whole career

what you have incorrect (in my humble opinion):
- the rest of the staff has been caught, for the most part, by Ryan Hanigan (an exceptional controller of the game from behind the plate)
- Chapman is perhaps the single most naturally-gifted pitcher to come along since Walter Johnson, in the sense that that human being was never taught to throw the way he does - he was born that way and is an absolute anomaly - don't tell me that his success is due to his amazingly extensive experience in the majors

this is on the staff, and I promise you that the rest of the staff's success is due to a combination of greater experience, more natural talent, and Ryan Hanigan - Homer isn't the weak link, he's just the unfortunate one

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:33 PM
That was deflating.

Stray
05-08-2012, 10:33 PM
3 pop outs

40YrRedsFan
05-08-2012, 10:33 PM
Another offensive failure

The Rage
05-08-2012, 10:34 PM
Mes has been a bit of a disappointment this year.

osuredleg24
05-08-2012, 10:35 PM
Mes has been a bit of a disappointment this year.

the whole team has been one, mes has been decent

wvreds
05-08-2012, 10:36 PM
Rolen for god sake RETIRE!!!!! This team is not very good.... They are great then the are down right awful!

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 10:36 PM
Precisely why he is not and should not be the 4-hitter.

But, Phillips is hitting just .182 w/ RISP.

osuredleg24
05-08-2012, 10:39 PM
The whole team is 25th in the league in batting avg with RISP and 2 out (.204)

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:39 PM
You are ignoring my point - lemme break it down:
this performance is not entirely on Homer's shoulders because...
- he's only 26
- pitchers don't usually hit their prime until 28 or 29
- he could even be behind that pace because he's played for a players' manager his whole career

what you have incorrect (in my humble opinion):
- the rest of the staff has been caught, for the most part, by Ryan Hanigan (an exceptional controller of the game from behind the plate)
- Chapman is perhaps the single most naturally-gifted pitcher to come along since Walter Johnson, in the sense that that human being was never taught to throw the way he does - he was born that way and is an absolute anomaly - don't tell me that his success is due to his amazingly extensive experience in the majors

this is on the staff, and I promise you that the rest of the staff's success is due to a combination of greater experience, more natural talent, and Ryan Hanigan - Homer isn't the weak link, he's just the unfortunate one

So let me get this straight......Any success the pitchers have is not really due to the coaching staff....but Homer being Homer after 84 big league starts is the coaching staff's fault.

Mes was not on the team last year,or the previous 3 years..Hannigan and a pretty good catcher that is now the starting catcher for the Rockies were the catchers for the Reds....

R_Webb18
05-08-2012, 10:40 PM
The whole team is 25th in the league in batting avg with RISP and 2 out (.204)

does not help when u bat rolen/ludwick 6/7

Falcon7
05-08-2012, 10:40 PM
Hamilton is also 5 for 5 and may get another at bat

Yea, but his other hit was just a double... He sucks :lol:

Falcon7
05-08-2012, 10:41 PM
Ok, quick and don't look it up, who was the last player to hit 4 against the Reds?

Ironman92
05-08-2012, 10:42 PM
Until Homer Bailey starts getting that Strikeout or Groundout when he's got multiple runners on base, in other words, showing the ability to get himself out of trouble by himself, then he's never going to be anything more than a #5 Starter. He's got the physical ability. It's always, at least for him, to be the mental toughness/intelligence, to step it up a notch when he needs it.

+1

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:43 PM
Bailey is asked to take a shower. JJ Hoover coming on with the bases juiced.

Ironman92
05-08-2012, 10:43 PM
Ok, quick and don't look it up, who was the last player to hit 4 against the Reds?

Mark Whiten....1993? 12 RBI....last one was a Rob Dibble fastball that Dibble dared him to hit....lol about 470 feet

1869's Original
05-08-2012, 10:43 PM
So let me get this straight......Any success the pitchers have is not really due to the coaching staff....but Homer being Homer after 84 big league starts is the coaching staff's fault.

Mes was not on the team last year,or the previous 3 years..Hannigan and a pretty good catcher that is now the starting catcher for the Rockies were the catchers for the Reds....

All I'm saying is that Homer needs guidance - more so than do the other four starters - and these coaches have failed to give it to him.

Falcon7
05-08-2012, 10:43 PM
Bailey is asked to take a shower. JJ Hoover coming on with the bases juiced.

C'mon Hoover, don't suck.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:44 PM
When he strikes somebody out we should all type "how sweep it is".

The Rage
05-08-2012, 10:45 PM
So let me get this straight......Any success the pitchers have is not really due to the coaching staff....but Homer being Homer after 84 big league starts is the coaching staff's fault.

Mes was not on the team last year,or the previous 3 years..Hannigan and a pretty good catcher that is now the starting catcher for the Rockies were the catchers for the Reds....

Bailey was rushed in 2007 and Pole screwed up his mechanics in 2008 and he threw like garbage. Neither are those 'starts' worth much.

If you look at Homer's good/bad things it is throwing hard through 100+ pitches and bad frontal mechanics. He has improved his frontal mechanics slowly over the years, but his throwing ability seems to be untapped potential. I don't know what the problem is, but the Reds are not getting the best stuff out of him. If he can throw 95-96 in the first, he can damn well the whole game with his 4 seamer. I think he needs another organization's pov. It does beg questions with our last 1st rounder as well, who is a somewhat similiar type.

wvreds
05-08-2012, 10:45 PM
All I know is Walt will have to make upgrade moves this year sadly... AND Phillips is making us look silly after that extension, no offense and his "D" has been purely average or below

Falcon7
05-08-2012, 10:45 PM
Mark Whiten....1993? 12 RBI....last one was a Rob Dibble fastball that Dibble dared him to hit....lol about 470 feet

You D'A Man! Whiten also had a HELL of an arm.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:46 PM
Hoover is gonna make a great closer because he does not give a dam. :laugh:

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:46 PM
That just might about do it, folks.

40YrRedsFan
05-08-2012, 10:47 PM
Game

Stray
05-08-2012, 10:47 PM
That's 6 ER for Bailey.

LeDoux
05-08-2012, 10:47 PM
Pitching has to let us down on some days.

Falcon7
05-08-2012, 10:47 PM
C'mon Hoover, don't suck.

I said DON'T SUCK...

George Foster
05-08-2012, 10:47 PM
Good night...ball game....thanks Homer....

Spider Tre
05-08-2012, 10:47 PM
ballgame

The Rage
05-08-2012, 10:47 PM
Good night...ball game....thanks Homer....

and Hoover, Mes you could go on and on.........

wvreds
05-08-2012, 10:48 PM
Thanks Homer, you jackass

1869's Original
05-08-2012, 10:48 PM
and Hoover, Mes you could go on and on.........

amen

wvreds
05-08-2012, 10:49 PM
Great now its time for Dusty to completely screw the bullpen up for weeks to come after tonight,!!! WOO HOMER!!!!

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 10:52 PM
We parlayed the trade to the Padres for a front end of the rotation pitcher....We traded $100 for $20, then had to trade another $80 to get $60. So, net, we traded $180 to get $80. But, ultimately we got that starting pitching we needed.

LeDoux
05-08-2012, 10:52 PM
Marty was talking about the holes in the lineup last inning. Someone needs to square him away.

wvreds
05-08-2012, 10:54 PM
This team is like that one Christmas gift, It always starts out exciting, fun, and worthwhile, BUT then it becomes an "old", "over used", and in some cases "under used" peice of crap

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 10:54 PM
The whole team is 25th in the league in batting avg with RISP and 2 out (.204):laugh:

Red Raindog
05-08-2012, 10:55 PM
Stubbs going for Golden Sombrero.

Stray
05-08-2012, 10:55 PM
We have Cueto going tomorrow to take the series.

wvreds
05-08-2012, 10:57 PM
Stubbs going for Golden Sombrero.

For some reason I am not surprised, nor angry :laugh::laugh:

LeDoux
05-08-2012, 10:57 PM
Stubbs going for Golden Sombrero.

With 4 more innings, he may hit platinum.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:58 PM
We have Cueto going tomorrow to take the series.

I hope Greinke cooperates.

LeDoux
05-08-2012, 10:59 PM
I wonder why Hoover didn't pitch this inning as well.

Falcon7
05-08-2012, 10:59 PM
That darn Mez, he screws up every pitcher...

texasdave
05-08-2012, 10:59 PM
I wonder why Hoover didn't pitch this inning as well.

You get to use more pitchers this way.

The Rage
05-08-2012, 11:00 PM
That darn Mez, he screws up every pitcher...

Struggling badly tonight.

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 11:00 PM
I wonder why Hoover didn't pitch this inning as well.Exactly. It's not like he pitched last inning.

LeDoux
05-08-2012, 11:01 PM
You get to use more pitchers this way.

I am sure there are some advantages to that. Seems like a lot to pay to get Cairo a PA.

LeDoux
05-08-2012, 11:02 PM
http://www.fangraphs.com/lgraphs/20120508_Reds_Brewers_0_20120508220146_live.png

New York Red
05-08-2012, 11:02 PM
I had plans tonight, so I missed the first few innings. Usually when I arrive late, it means a Reds rally, but I don't think even the NYR Rally can help them tonight.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 11:03 PM
Hoover came on to face Ramirez and by the time the dust settled it was 6-0. LOL.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 11:04 PM
7-0.

The Rage
05-08-2012, 11:05 PM
Mes,Mes,Mes..........

Who Dey Time
05-08-2012, 11:05 PM
Now it's officially just one of those nights.

New York Red
05-08-2012, 11:05 PM
Wow. The bullpen streak ends too. Bad night for the Reds.

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 11:07 PM
I had plans tonight, so I missed the first few innings. Usually when I arrive late, it means a Reds rally, but I don't think even the NYR Rally can help them tonight.You have to always believe it's possible. It's at least realistic, still, as we don't have to have more than 2 runs in any inning to catch up. Get two in the 6th, one in the 7th, two in the 8th and two in the 9th.

With three batters coming up before Rolen and Ludwick have a chance to knock them in this coming inning, we have a real chance, right? I mean, Rolen and Ludwick might actually come through, right?

Falcon7
05-08-2012, 11:09 PM
You have to always believe it's possible. It's at least realistic, still, as we don't have to have more than 2 runs in any inning to catch up. Get two in the 6th, one in the 7th, two in the 8th and two in the 9th.

With three batters coming up before Rolen and Ludwick have a chance to knock them in this coming inning, we have a real chance, right? I mean, Rolen and Ludwick might actually come through, right?

Yea, and I might win the power ball.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 11:09 PM
http://www.fangraphs.com/lgraphs/20120508_Reds_Brewers_0_20120508220146_live.png

Does this mean at this moment the Reds have about 1% chance of winning this game? If they started the game from this point 100 times the Reds would pull it out one time. Sad.

Falcon7
05-08-2012, 11:10 PM
Does this mean at this moment the Reds have about 1% chance of winning this game?

No, it's .01%.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 11:10 PM
No, it's .01%.

I can't count that low.

LeDoux
05-08-2012, 11:12 PM
No worries. This may be the 1 night in 1000!

Red Raindog
05-08-2012, 11:13 PM
Yea, and I might win the power ball.

I came close once!

4 out of 5 + the Powerball -- gets you $5,000.

But I had a deal with a friend (now deceased) that we split any good win so he got $2,500

Then my wife claimed her $1,250 -- and then -- I kid you not -- the day I got my money the mail had the bill for my share of my rotator cuff surgery -- $1,300 --- I think I lost $50!

texasdave
05-08-2012, 11:14 PM
I came close once!

4 out of 5 + the Powerball -- gets you $5,000.

But I had a deal with a friend (now deceased) that we split any good win so he got $2,500

Then my wife claimed her $1,250 -- and then -- I kid you not -- the day I got my money the mail had the bill for my share of my rotator cuff surgery -- $1,300 --- I think I lost $50!

Sometimes it sucks to be lucky. :D

Falcon7
05-08-2012, 11:15 PM
I can't count that low.

I think that's what I earn on my savings account, or maybe it's .001%.

LeDoux
05-08-2012, 11:15 PM
I came close once!

4 out of 5 + the Powerball -- gets you $5,000.

But I had a deal with a friend (now deceased) that we split any good win so he got $2,500

Then my wife claimed her $1,250 -- and then -- I kid you not -- the day I got my money the mail had the bill for my share of my rotator cuff surgery -- $1,300 --- I think I lost $50!

In the mailbox at the same time? That is some instant Karma.

Kingspoint
05-08-2012, 11:15 PM
Looks like Rolen, and possibly Ludwick will get their chance this inning.

texasdave
05-08-2012, 11:16 PM
Bruccccccccccccce