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powersackers
05-09-2012, 08:52 PM
* That's the combined Home Runs we'd have in our lineup out of three players if we still had Josh Hamilton, Edwin Encarnacion along with Jay Bruce. Amazing seasons for all three thus far.

Cozart Ss
Phillips 2b
Votto 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Hamilton Lf
Bruce Rf
Stubbs Cf
Hanigan/Mes C

Wouldn't need Matt Latos with that offense. Tomko would win 15-20.

LoganBuck
05-09-2012, 11:42 PM
You were neglecting Adam Dunn, in your wallowing? The guy is on pace for 51 HR and 127 RBI.

dougdirt
05-09-2012, 11:46 PM
You were neglecting Adam Dunn, in your wallowing? The guy is on pace for 51 HR and 127 RBI.

I guess you could move Hamilton to CF and put Dunn in left. The pitching staff probably wouldn't like that, but I imagine the 8 runs a game they would score might offset it some.

LoganBuck
05-09-2012, 11:51 PM
I guess you could move Hamilton to CF and put Dunn in left. The pitching staff probably wouldn't like that, but I imagine the 8 runs a game they would score might offset it some.

You could just leave Dunn on the bench for ninth inning walk offs.

RedEye
05-10-2012, 12:19 AM
I suppose if the Reds had kept Hamilton and Encarnacion, they might also have then traded Votto and Cueto for Bedard, who would now just have gotten injured. Or maybe they would have traded him in the Latos deal. But then Yonder probably would have stayed here because they wouldn't have had a first baseman.

Okay, I'm confused. Can we stop thinking hypothetically?

powersackers
05-10-2012, 12:32 AM
LF and 3B are our open wounds right now. Just so happens that's where Josh and EE play. Made me think of the possibilities w/ them. Sure it's a slippery slope. But this is a forum you don't need to think much to participate.

AtomicDumpling
05-10-2012, 12:41 AM
Paul Konerko would be another one to add to this scenario. He only has 6 homers so far this year but he hit 70 over the last two years. Konerko is having another great year with the bat with a .345 batting average and a 1.025 OPS. He has had an awesome career and is still cranking on all cylinders. Konerko has hit 402 home runs so far in his career. Unfortunately only 3 of them were in a Reds uniform.

Tom Servo
05-10-2012, 12:43 AM
Edwin can't play 3rd base.

MartyFan
05-10-2012, 12:49 AM
Edwin can't play 3rd base.

EXACTLY!

RedEye
05-10-2012, 01:18 AM
LF and 3B are our open wounds right now. Just so happens that's where Josh and EE play. Made me think of the possibilities w/ them. Sure it's a slippery slope. But this is a forum you don't need to think much to participate.

Yes, it is a forum...

Brutus
05-10-2012, 01:36 AM
Imagine if the Reds had never traded Frank Robinson.

edabbs44
05-10-2012, 05:43 AM
There's another certain someone out there sporting a .969 OPS who "plays" LF. And unlike some of the guys being mentioned, he is actually playing in the field a little this year.

edabbs44
05-10-2012, 05:46 AM
LF and 3B are our open wounds right now. Just so happens that's where Josh and EE play. Made me think of the possibilities w/ them. Sure it's a slippery slope. But this is a forum you don't need to think much to participate.

EE plays 3rd?

edabbs44
05-10-2012, 05:46 AM
Nm

membengal
05-10-2012, 06:27 AM
Welcome to the new Redszone where members are passive aggressively made fun of for having an observation and sharing it.

Powersackers...yeah, it would have been awesome to have still had EE when he realized all the potential that a lot of us saw in him. Same with Josh.

Problem with a thread like this is certain members don't like being reminded how dead wrong they were about EE, for instance, or the EV for Josh trade, and come out with knives ready. It's a played and boring response, and this board used to be better than that.

I have no problem admitting that I was all for the EV for Josh trade, and that it has worked out I was dead wrong. Dead. wrong. I don't care how good the thinking was behind it, it ended up being just a supremely awful trade because Josh has kept his demons at bay and is the best offensive player in baseball at this point with one MVP under his belt and another maybe on the way. And it turned out EV had his own demons to deal with.

As for EE, him in LF at this point would have been awesome.

westofyou
05-10-2012, 09:45 AM
Imagine if this franchise had valued pitching at least 75% as they have valued hitting for the past fifty years, now that's something I could get behind

Tommyjohn25
05-10-2012, 09:56 AM
Once players leave the Reds, I could care less what they do. Unless they play against us that day, anyways. I'm not judging anyone who thinks otherwise, I get it, I guess I just don't really see the point of it personally.

As they say...

"It is what it is".

Chip R
05-10-2012, 02:15 PM
One thing that people are forgetting about keeping Hamilton here is that if he had not been traded and he put up the same numbers he has been putting up in TEX, he would have to be paid like he is in TEX i.e. $13.75M this season and eligible for free agency. So that's Bruce, Votto, Phillips, Arroyo and Cueto either making or due to be making a lot of money. Could they afford those players and Hamilton too?

paulrichjr
05-10-2012, 04:37 PM
One thing that people are forgetting about keeping Hamilton here is that if he had not been traded and he put up the same numbers he has been putting up in TEX, he would have to be paid like he is in TEX i.e. $13.75M this season and eligible for free agency. So that's Bruce, Votto, Phillips, Arroyo and Cueto either making or due to be making a lot of money. Could they afford those players and Hamilton too?

Honestly if the Reds still had Hamilton on the field along with Bruce and Votto I'm not sure they couldn't easily pay those salaries. The amount of wins that would have been added would have been more than 3 or 4...(no idea what WAR says about Hamilton) I think playoffs would have happened more than once. I think a player like Hamilton brings three things...wins,fans and money.

powersackers
05-10-2012, 05:12 PM
EE plays 3rd?

Yes, 37 times in the last 1.2 seasons. Plays and plays well are different. A lot of mean responses to this thread. I'll be more careful not to hit your all's sensitive spots in the future.

Geesh.

AtomicDumpling
05-10-2012, 05:30 PM
Yes, 37 times in the last 1.2 seasons. Plays and plays well are different. A lot of mean responses to this thread. I'll be more careful not to hit your all's sensitive spots in the future.

Geesh.

I found your thread interesting and thought provoking and I think most other Redszoners did too. Good job.

Some people enjoy bashing other people's posts rather than actually adding something interesting to the conversation themselves. It is much easier to pooh-pooh someone else's idea than to come up with an original idea yourself. There are always going to be nitpickers and contrarians here. That is to be expected on the anonymous Internet where people mouth off in ways they would not in a face-to-face conversation. Just ignore them. I know I have a few of them on my block list.

RedEye
05-10-2012, 06:09 PM
Welcome to the new Redszone where members are passive aggressively made fun of for having an observation and sharing it.

Powersackers...yeah, it would have been awesome to have still had EE when he realized all the potential that a lot of us saw in him. Same with Josh.

Problem with a thread like this is certain members don't like being reminded how dead wrong they were about EE, for instance, or the EV for Josh trade, and come out with knives ready. It's a played and boring response, and this board used to be better than that.

I have no problem admitting that I was all for the EV for Josh trade, and that it has worked out I was dead wrong. Dead. wrong. I don't care how good the thinking was behind it, it ended up being just a supremely awful trade because Josh has kept his demons at bay and is the best offensive player in baseball at this point with one MVP under his belt and another maybe on the way. And it turned out EV had his own demons to deal with.

As for EE, him in LF at this point would have been awesome.

Let me extend my apologies to powersackers if my posts came across as snide. You are perfectly welcome to post whatever you want.

For the record, though, my response had nothing to do with whether I was right or wrong about those moves in the past. I supported the Hamilton trade, more or less, and I think the EE deal was probably the right move at the time. Hindsight is 20/20.

My tone -- which I regret -- probably had more to do with the fact that this kind of hypothetical thinking, about doing things over differently, in my opinion, doesn't really get us anywhere in a conversation other than a constant string of "What if" questions.

edabbs44
05-10-2012, 06:15 PM
Yes, 37 times in the last 1.2 seasons. Plays and plays well are different. A lot of mean responses to this thread. I'll be more careful not to hit your all's sensitive spots in the future.

Geesh.

Sorry if you thought my post was mean. It wasn't. But EE doesn't play 3rd. He is now a DH. Im not sure that you can consider him to be a potential third baseman for this team.

AtomicDumpling
05-10-2012, 06:19 PM
Sorry if you thought my post was mean. It wasn't. But EE doesn't play 3rd. He is now a DH. Im not sure that you can consider him to be a potential third baseman for this team.

Powersackers was saying that if the Reds had not traded Encarnacion he could still be playing 3rd for the Reds and hitting all those home runs.

EE does still play quite a bit of third base. The main reason he does not play every day at third base is because the Blue Jays have one of the best young players in baseball and he plays third base (Brett Lawrie), so Edwin got moved. It wasn't because he can't play third base. Nobody will tell you that EE is a good third baseman defensively (his nickname is E5), but he can and does play there.

Roy Tucker
05-10-2012, 07:20 PM
Imagine if this franchise had valued pitching at least 75% as they have valued hitting for the past fifty years, now that's something I could get behind

Reds fans dig the long ball.

There are a lot of things that if I knew then what I know now, I would have done things differently. But rarely do you get take-backs in real life.

The Operator
05-10-2012, 07:50 PM
Powersackers was saying that if the Reds had not traded Encarnacion he could still be playing 3rd for the Reds and hitting all those home runs.That may be, but I never, ever want to see him play 3B defense in a Reds uniform ever again. He was terrible.

His WAR would look a lot different if he were playing 3B for the Reds, even if he was performing the exact same offensively.

klw
05-10-2012, 07:53 PM
Hamilton has averaged 125 games per year since the trade. That is a lot of missed games for an OF.

Brutus
05-10-2012, 08:05 PM
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

The hypothetical situations are one thing if it's something that can happen going forward. But to borrow a line from LOST; "whatever happened, happened."

For starters, even accepting the hypothetical, the Reds lineup wouldn't have the same number of home runs with those players because of the dynamics of them being in a different environment with different teammates against different pitchers in different pitchers. There's no guarantee the Reds would even be any better at this juncture. But even if we could conclude they would be, I don't see why it matters. These players don't play for the Reds this year and they're not in the lineup. I'd think people would rather concentrate on the what is rather than the what if.

RBA
05-10-2012, 08:06 PM
You could just leave Dunn on the bench for ninth inning walk offs.

With a man on third and a deep sac fly is needed. :D

westofyou
05-10-2012, 08:10 PM
That may be, but I never, ever want to see him play 3B defense in a Reds uniform ever again. He was terrible.

His WAR would look a lot different if he were playing 3B for the Reds, even if he was performing the exact same offensively.

Outside of the statistics the trade that ushered EE out if town was never about anything but getting Rolen on the team

It was a culture move and a dice roll on Scott's numbers

Jocketty (and likely Baker) wanted Rolen for a LOT of reasons, and seeing the sponges of young players in the organization was something that drove that trade.

In short EE could whack 30 HRs this year and the Reds still win this deal IMO, because intangibles.

And there's no price on those until they vanish, then you will see what they gave you

I think it's pretty clear that the post Larkin years were at best bedouin baseball playing and the brass was looking for a role model

edabbs44
05-10-2012, 08:21 PM
Powersackers was saying that if the Reds had not traded Encarnacion he could still be playing 3rd for the Reds and hitting all those home runs.

EE does still play quite a bit of third base. The main reason he does not play every day at third base is because the Blue Jays have one of the best young players in baseball and he plays third base (Brett Lawrie), so Edwin got moved. It wasn't because he can't play third base. Nobody will tell you that EE is a good third baseman defensively (his nickname is E5), but he can and does play there.

And what was the story last year? Jayson Nix?

Always Red
05-10-2012, 09:03 PM
Edwin can hit; there was never any question about that. And when he didn't, it's because his defense was in his head.

There are always some who root against those ex-Reds whom have been traded away, in hopes of "winning the trade." It's really hard for me to pull against guys whom I have rooted so hard to do well when they were Reds.

I really see these guys as men who will always have a little bit of Cincinnati Red still in them, and hope they do well except when playing against the Redlegs.

For instance, in 10-15 years from now, Adam Dunn will be elected to the Reds Hall of Fame. And I will very much enjoy that, and I know many here will as well, and I also know flame wars will break out in thread after thread about it. :D

The only guy I ever had trouble rooting for as a Red was when Jim Edmonds was on the team. I was able to do it for a bit, and then he bashed the team in the next offseason, and was safe in my distaste for him again. ;)

DGullett35
05-11-2012, 06:45 AM
When Jose Bautista actually starts hitting up in Toronto EE's numbers could get better. Thats scary.