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View Full Version : Mike Leake - What to do with him?



The Operator
05-11-2012, 07:36 PM
I've been meaning to start this thread for a while, so I hope it doesn't look like a thread sparked by venting from the game.

But, he's been pretty bad this year other than two starts, and even then he gave up 3 ER in those. He's given up 5 ER twice already. He's striking out 4.25 guys per nine innings.

I think he'll eventually get it together, but right now - he's the weakest link in the rotation, in my opinion. If Chapman replaces anyone, it should be him. I don't get why anyone's worrying about Bailey when Leake has been so awful.

OnBaseMachine
05-11-2012, 07:39 PM
Leake has absolutely nothing right now. It's painful to watch him pitch. I would send him to AAA and put Chapman in the rotation, but we both know that probably won't happen. So instead, send him to AAA and give Jeff Francis a chance.

dougdirt
05-11-2012, 07:39 PM
Thread on a guy = problem fixer, right?

Good job Operator. He comes 4 shutout innings.

The Operator
05-11-2012, 07:40 PM
Thread on a guy = problem fixer, right?

Good job Operator. He comes 4 shutout innings.You know it. That's the plan, lol.

Blitz Dorsey
05-11-2012, 07:45 PM
What to do with him? It's called 71 S to Louisville.

RedsManRick
05-11-2012, 07:46 PM
Let him pitch.

forfreelin04
05-11-2012, 07:49 PM
Let him pitch.

In Louisville

Patrick Bateman
05-11-2012, 08:09 PM
His stuff simply isnt good enough right now. It's a case where I think the small sample size is right. He doesnt look or pitch like a major leaguer right now. With Francis pitching well, its an easy decision.

Benihana
05-11-2012, 08:13 PM
Leake has absolutely nothing right now. It's painful to watch him pitch. I would send him to AAA and put Chapman in the rotation, but we both know that probably won't happen. So instead, send him to AAA and give Jeff Francis a chance.

This.

dougdirt
05-11-2012, 08:32 PM
His stuff simply isnt good enough right now. It's a case where I think the small sample size is right. He doesnt look or pitch like a major leaguer right now. With Francis pitching well, its an easy decision.

Francis isn't exactly pitching well..... 4.15 ERA on the year. 4.79 ERA over his last 4 starts and that is just due to one start where he went 8 innings with 1 run, the other three games were clunkers.

forfreelin04
05-11-2012, 08:37 PM
Francis isn't exactly pitching well..... 4.15 ERA on the year. 4.79 ERA over his last 4 starts and that is just due to one start where he went 8 innings with 1 run, the other three games were clunkers.

Who would be the next starter up in your opinion Doug?

757690
05-11-2012, 08:43 PM
Francis isn't exactly pitching well..... 4.15 ERA on the year. 4.79 ERA over his last 4 starts and that is just due to one start where he went 8 innings with 1 run, the other three games were clunkers.

Francis isn't pitching badly. High K's, low walks, low HR. He's given up a bunch of hits lately, but in the minors, it's hard to know how much of that is his fault. I'd still rather see Francis called up to the pen and move Chapman to the rotation, if they send down Leake.

dougdirt
05-11-2012, 08:46 PM
Francis isn't pitching badly. High K's, low walks, low HR. He's given up a bunch of hits lately, but in the minors, it's hard to know how much of that is his fault. I'd still rather see Francis called up to the pen and move Chapman to the rotation, if they send down Leake.

While I haven't seen all of his starts, I still see his stuff as good enough to get some guys, but the good hitters are going to hit him. I think he might be the guy they go to, if it gets to that point, but that doesn't mean its really a good option. I just don't see them calling up Sulbaran or Villarreal, though Sulbaran is also pitching tonight, so he lines up.

757690
05-11-2012, 08:47 PM
His stuff simply isnt good enough right now. It's a case where I think the small sample size is right. He doesnt look or pitch like a major leaguer right now. With Francis pitching well, its an easy decision.

The key that I notice is that batters are fouling off a ton of two strike pitches. I wonder what the movement on his pitches has been this year. It seems like his pitchers are straighter and flatter.

One thing to remember is that he has been learning on the job up until now. Might be time for him to get some education in AAA.

johngalt
05-11-2012, 08:48 PM
Wonder if there's still any money left for Roy Oswalt...

757690
05-11-2012, 08:51 PM
While I haven't seen all of his starts, I still see his stuff as good enough to get some guys, but the good hitters are going to hit him. I think he might be the guy they go to, if it gets to that point, but that doesn't mean its really a good option. I just don't see them calling up Sulbaran or Villarreal, though Sulbaran is also pitching tonight, so he lines up.

Thanks for the scouting report. :thumbup:

Sounds like he could be okay in the pen in the long man role. Move Ondrusek into Chapman's spot. Simon into Ondrusek's spot.

Ghosts of 1990
05-11-2012, 11:43 PM
I know it isn't reality, but I could care less to ever see him pitch in a Reds uniform again.

The organization will keep running him out there to justify his draft status, but this guy is of Jimmy Haynes caliber stuff, and he's gotten by largely on smoke and mirrors to this point from what I've seen. Not to mention some off the field things that have given the organization a black eye.

Perfect opportunity to plug in a Chapman or Peavy and if you think Leake can succeed in a Lecure type role, so be it. I know he's young, but I just don't see it when he pitches. He finds too many bats, and when he does it's hard.

Reds/Flyers Fan
05-12-2012, 11:20 AM
Peavy? Are the Sox throwing in the towel already?

Kc61
05-12-2012, 11:52 AM
I think Leake is going to be a good pitcher some day, in fact a very good pitcher.

But any time you have a young pitcher without a dominant fastball, there are going to be growing pains.

This is just another example of the tension on a team like the Reds. On the one hand, the team wants to win now. On the other hand, it wants to bring along younger players. It's a tough balance.

I would give Leake a few more chances this year, maybe give him a shot with Hanigan behind the plate, and then make a decision. The Hanigan thing would just be to change things up a little, with Mes getting some work with a different starter.

lollipopcurve
05-12-2012, 12:12 PM
This is just another example of the tension on a team like the Reds. On the one hand, the team wants to win now. On the other hand, it wants to bring along younger players. It's a tough balance.

I would give Leake a few more chances this year, maybe give him a shot with Hanigan behind the plate, and then make a decision. The Hanigan thing would just be to change things up a little, with Mes getting some work with a different starter.

Well put. Next start would be vs. Mets, then I think he'd miss the Yanks and would go again at home vs. Atlanta. That's better than having him pitch twice on the upcoming road trip. Still, if his confidence is shot and they feel he's stuck in terms of his stuff, it might make sense to give him a mental break in AAA. Francis could slide in, and at the very least he would be able to give the Reds what they've been getting from Leake for a while. Still, the drum for Chapman is starting to beat, and I think the organization is going to have a hard time quieting it.

redsmetz
05-12-2012, 12:45 PM
The even handed discussion in this thread is what draws me to RZ. Clearly Leake isn't getting the job done, but I concur with those who don't believe his poor start this year means this is what he will always be. In last night's game I was ready for them to pack his bags for Louisville; let him work things out down there. But, in no way, do I believe the club should give up on him. Pitching is too valuable. Getting him and Bailey pitching well, having Francis doing a good job, Hoover too; ultimately, if nothing else, gives us chips for improving elsewhere.

Heaven knows, last night was a stinker, from his performance, to our inability to get just a couple of more timely hits (and I agree with whoever said we got to those two bases loaded situations on some gutsy AB's). We do need to kick it into gear and minimize the games like last nights. Several of the AB's where Leake got burned, the Nats fouled off a host of pitches. Where he missed, mostly, was just missing. Then he'd throw a cookie and, bam, balls would fly.

On my FB wall I said that I was picking up my free LaRosa's pizzas for the staff having 12 K's in the game and commented that I would have liked them to have spread them out into more advantageous spots.

Kc61
05-12-2012, 12:45 PM
Well put. Next start would be vs. Mets, then I think he'd miss the Yanks and would go again at home vs. Atlanta. That's better than having him pitch twice on the upcoming road trip. Still, if his confidence is shot and they feel he's stuck in terms of his stuff, it might make sense to give him a mental break in AAA. Francis could slide in, and at the very least he would be able to give the Reds what they've been getting from Leake for a while. Still, the drum for Chapman is starting to beat, and I think the organization is going to have a hard time quieting it.

Agree completely.

My own guess on Chapman is that he will stay in the pen this year, barring a rash of injuries to the rotation.

But I agree that the pressure will be great for him to start. My sense is that next season he will become a starter with no looking back. Frankly, I think that was the plan this year until the bullpen became a MASH unit with injuries.

It's really too bad about Leake so far. You like to see young pitchers build on success, and Mike certainly was successful last season. I just think he has a feel for pitching and willi some day be good, but there's no denying his struggles so far this season.

I'll be rooting for him next time out.

corkedbat
05-12-2012, 01:28 PM
Situations like this is why they invented options. I'd be putting out feelers to Roy Oswalt or considering Francis.

Jpup
05-12-2012, 02:39 PM
I know it isn't reality, but I could care less to ever see him pitch in a Reds uniform again.

The organization will keep running him out there to justify his draft status, but this guy is of Jimmy Haynes caliber stuff, and he's gotten by largely on smoke and mirrors to this point from what I've seen. Not to mention some off the field things that have given the organization a black eye.

Perfect opportunity to plug in a Chapman or Peavy and if you think Leake can succeed in a Lecure type role, so be it. I know he's young, but I just don't see it when he pitches. He finds too many bats, and when he does it's hard.


Wow. No way anyone can believe this.

dougdirt
05-12-2012, 02:44 PM
Wow. No way anyone can believe this.

The first part, I think I could buy into ever so slightly. The rest, not as much.

Tommyjohn25
05-12-2012, 03:26 PM
I try not to overreact, for the most part. I will say this, though. If Mike Leake starts for the Reds four days from now, I have serious doubts about this organizations ability to make winning decisions.

traderumor
05-12-2012, 03:26 PM
Well, let's review what makes Leake successful: movement, changing speeds, keeping the ball down. I'm not sure what his issues are that are preventing all these things from happening, but the last two seasons, he has started very similarly for these reasons--no movement, ineffective changeup, and can't get the ball down. I'm guessing it is a mechanical adjustment, which is what AAA is for when that is an option. With him, its an option.

OnBaseMachine
05-21-2012, 11:54 PM
Well, I don't know what the heck happened but Leake went from having absolutely nothing to now having the best stuff I've seen him have since he entered the majors in 2010. Has anyone else noticed his increase in velocity in his last two starts? Last week in New York he was consistently hitting 91-92 on the gun and even touched 93 once or twice, and tonight he was around 91 most of the night. It seemed like he was around 88-89 most of last year. Also, his changeup has looked much, much better his last two starts. His command is back too. I never doubted he would turn things around but I figured he would need to do it in AAA. Glad I was wrong. Hopefully these last two starts are a sign of things to come.

kaldaniels
05-21-2012, 11:56 PM
Well, I don't know what the heck happened but Leake went from having absolutely nothing to now having the best stuff I've seen him have since he entered the majors in 2010. Has anyone else noticed his increase in velocity in his last two starts? Last week in New York he was consistently hitting 91-92 on the gun and even touched 93 once or twice, and tonight he was around 91 most of the night. It seemed like he was around 88-89 most of last year. Also, his changeup has looked much, much better his last two starts. His command is back too. I never doubted he would turn things around but I figured he would need to do it in AAA. Glad I was wrong. Hopefully these last two starts are a sign of things to come.

The 92 on the gun caught my eye as well.

WVRedsFan
05-22-2012, 12:24 AM
I may be crazy, but the kid just impresses me. Yes, he had a couple of meltdowns, but on the whole, I think he will be more reliable than Homer or even Latos. Yes, I'm crazy, but he pitches effenciently, something the rest of our bunch does not. I like that.

RedlegJake
05-22-2012, 01:01 AM
Mike Leake is a pitcher's pitcher. Yes, he pitches on a razor's edge of talent because he doesn't have the natural stuff but he gets the most of what he has. For a guy with absolutely no minor league pedigree, who, if he were 95% of other college draftees, would just now be getting his first big league taste he has performed amazingly well. How many guys learn on the job in the big leagues and survive - with 89/90 velocity? Leake will end up surprising you if you just let him pitch and yes - that might mean some rough patches here and there, but he is one guy who'll pull himself out of it unless his arm just falls off. I'd love to screw Bailey's arm on Leake's shoulder.

The Operator
05-22-2012, 01:34 AM
I'd love to screw Bailey's arm on Leake's shoulder.Better to put Leake's head on Homer's body. That way you wouldn't have to re-attach the shoulder to the arm. Although there would be that whole attaching the head to the neck thing, that could get complicated. :p

Tom Servo
05-22-2012, 02:23 AM
Better to put Leake's head on Homer's body. That way you wouldn't have to re-attach the shoulder to the arm. Although there would be that whole attaching the head to the neck thing, that could get complicated. :p
And do we name it Homer Leake or Mike Bailey?

GAC
05-22-2012, 04:39 AM
Let him pitch.

Yes. I have always liked Mike. He's not a power pitcher, doesn't have a dominant fastball, isn't going to blow batters away; but relies on mixing up his pitches, hitting his spots, and keeping the batters off guard. And when he's on he does well. Yeah, he got off to a rough start, but I think a big part of it was his mechanics and leaving the ball over the plate. But he studies film relentlessly (on himself and batters), and I had faith he would get it figured out and start to straighten himself out.

Show some patience with this kid. Besides, who else we going to replace him with?

GoReds
05-22-2012, 07:41 AM
Stick him in the #2 spot between Cozart and Votto and see how he handles LF. Let's get some mileage out of that 867 OPS.

RedsManRick
05-22-2012, 08:41 AM
Another example of the challenge of trying to make a decision based on a small sample size. Leake's xFIP sits at 4.06, very much in line with his career thus far -- though he may be a bit more homer prone than the average pitcher, so his 4.75 FIP should be considered too. Still looks like a standard 3/4 type guy to me.

NJReds
05-22-2012, 08:50 AM
On ESPN last night they said that Leake went away from his scouting report and relied mostly on his cutter. Especially to lefthanded hitters. He seemed to have good movement on his pitches.

Both Leake and Homer have pitched better of late.

bucksfan2
05-22-2012, 08:57 AM
Leake started off awful last year as well. He was sent down to AAA made one start and was called back due to injury and ended up pitching pretty well the rest of the season. The thing with fast or slow starts is they tend to get magnified. If you have a string of 5 bad starts in July they aren't as magnified as a bad April/May.


Another example of the challenge of trying to make a decision based on a small sample size. Leake's xFIP sits at 4.06, very much in line with his career thus far -- though he may be a bit more homer prone than the average pitcher, so his 4.75 FIP should be considered too. Still looks like a standard 3/4 type guy to me.

I will take Leake as a solid #3 but 200+ innings a year. His ability to hit and also field his position makes him a little better. Its one of those things that his pitching ability may be that of a 3 starter but with his peripherals and intangibles he becomes a better pitcher.

traderumor
05-22-2012, 09:22 AM
Well, I don't know what the heck happened but Leake went from having absolutely nothing to now having the best stuff I've seen him have since he entered the majors in 2010. Has anyone else noticed his increase in velocity in his last two starts? Last week in New York he was consistently hitting 91-92 on the gun and even touched 93 once or twice, and tonight he was around 91 most of the night. It seemed like he was around 88-89 most of last year. Also, his changeup has looked much, much better his last two starts. His command is back too. I never doubted he would turn things around but I figured he would need to do it in AAA. Glad I was wrong. Hopefully these last two starts are a sign of things to come.See the post right before yours from yours truly. The movement has been there his last two starts, he's keeping the ball down and changing speeds. Not sure if it was mechanical or "just a keep on pitching" thing, but he has done what has made him successful in the past his last two starts.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2012, 10:18 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/24684/hey-st-louis-here-come-the-reds

Decent read.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2012, 10:23 AM
If there's one thing I'd like the rest of our starters to learn from Leake, it's how to work quickly. It helps keep the hitters off balance, it helps the pitcher get into a groove and it keeps the defenders on their toes. It's such a simple thing and it can do wonders for a pitcher's performance. Quit shaking off the catcher, and just THROW!

Benihana
05-22-2012, 10:37 AM
Use this positive momentum to trade one of them (Leake or Bailey) along with a prospect for a cleanup hitter who can play LF. That's what I'd do with him.

Of course then move Chapman to the rotation (sigh)

mth123
05-22-2012, 10:51 AM
Use this positive momentum to trade one of them (Leake or Bailey) along with a prospect for a cleanup hitter who can play LF. That's what I'd do with him.

Of course then move Chapman to the rotation (sigh)

I get it and wouldn't mind it. But....

If you had a legit clean-up hitter would you be dealing him? If you are rebuilding, I wonder if Leake or Bailey, already in arb next year and getting expensive, is enough of a prime motivation. The Reds really don't have any A-Grade prospects that would motivate a team to deal a legit clean-up guy, so Leake or Bailey would be the centerpiece to a deal.

If I had a legit clean-up guy, I'd hold out for better to rebuild my organization. And, well, if I'm not rebuilding, I don't want to deal my clean-up guy.

They may be able to upgrade a spot with one of them. Say Bailey and Frazier for a better 3B or Bailey and Heisey for a better OF, but probably still not a bonafide .900+ OPS clean-up guy. If that's all they could get, would it really be worth seriously weakening the late game, snuff out the rally options by moving in a guy who may be merely a 6 inning arm that will be all used up by the end of August to backfill the rotation? I think moving Chapman into the rotation is a win next year move and would make this year's team worse on the whole. Perhaps later in the year, when Masset and Bray can reinforce the pen and moving Chapman in will not result in him be unavailable for any potential post-season play this may make sense, but not now IMO.

IMO, all they can do is bring in role players who fit better by dealing spare parts that won't make holes elsewhere on the roster.

traderumor
05-22-2012, 10:59 AM
I get it and wouldn't mind it. But....

If you had a legit clean-up hitter would you be dealing him? If you are rebuilding, I wonder if Leake or Bailey, already in arb next year and getting expensive, is enough of a prime motivation. The Reds really don't have any A-Grade prospects that would motivate a team to deal a legit clean-up guy, so Leake or Bailey would be the centerpiece to a deal.

If I had a legit clean-up guy, I'd hold out for better to rebuild my organization. And, well, if I'm not rebuilding, I don't want to deal my clean-up guy.

They may be able to upgrade a spot with one of them. Say Bailey and Frazier for a better 3B or Bailey and Heisey for a better OF, but probably still not a bonafide .900+ OPS clean-up guy. If that's all they could get, would it really be worth seriously weakening the late game, snuff out the rally options by moving in a guy who may be merely a 6 inning arm that will be all used up by the end of August to backfill the rotation? I think moving Chapman into the rotation is a win next year move and would make this year's team worse on the whole. Perhaps later in the year, when Masset and Bray can reinforce the pen and moving Chapman in will not result in him be unavailable for any potential post-season play this may make sense, but not now IMO.

IMO, all they can do is bring in role players who fit better by dealing spare parts that won't make holes elsewhere on the roster.I think the need is for at least one more good hitter that could hit 4-6, and a high OBP guy. Getting one of those would spark the offense, getting both of them probably puts the offense back to one of the best in the league. Of course, the in house options could become those people as time goes on during the season through normalization. I think getting at least one more above average hitter would do wonders for the offense. Where he hits in the order is trivial.

Kc61
05-22-2012, 11:10 AM
I wouldn't trade Leake except in a blockbuster. At this point, I wouldn't trade Bailey either unless the return is big.

These guys are very good young pitchers. Becoming a TOR pitcher can take time and I wouldn't give up their potential very easily. Homer seems healthier this year, he is throwing much better IMO, despite my early skepticism I am now a fan. I've always liked Leake, seems to have great make up, I think in time he will be very successful.

There are other ways to add to the offense. Pitching is the backbone of the team. Arbitration eligible? These guys aren't going to break the bank.

The infrastructure of a ballclub is not just the superstars but the solid guys. These are two solid pitchers, I'd keep 'em both.

Want to add offense? Continue trading prospects who are blocked, look for teams who want to dump decent players, pick your spots. Let's keep the major league pitching depth.

mth123
05-22-2012, 11:13 AM
I think the need is for at least one more good hitter that could hit 4-6, and a high OBP guy. Getting one of those would spark the offense, getting both of them probably puts the offense back to one of the best in the league. Of course, the in house options could become those people as time goes on during the season through normalization. I think getting at least one more above average hitter would do wonders for the offense. Where he hits in the order is trivial.

Agreed. They especially need to be guys who can hit against RHP. It's why the easiest upgrade may be to deal some of the midding propsects (who are top 10 guys in this organization as it stands now) for some platoon types who upgrade on the days the big split guys (Stubbs, Frazier, Cozart, etc) would be facing their bad side. For example, a lefty who could OPS .775 or so against RHP while sharing time with Frazier would make that spot a very solid spot in the line-up while Frazier by himself is a near auto out against RHP. They shoud be able to get those types without dealing Leake or Bailey.

Kc61
05-22-2012, 11:19 AM
Chapman's spot in the rotation for next year, IMO, is the Arroyo spot. Bronson will have one year left on his deal after 2012, should be tradeable if he accepts the deal. No need to trade a Leake or a Bailey to open a spot.

The Reds right now really have one MUST upgrade situation and that is LF. Stubbs has value in CF. They will cobble together 3B for this year, not the easiest position to fill.

But LF is a nightmare for this team. There should be some left fielder who can hit righty handed pitching for a decent OBP (even without a lot of power) who can be obtained for an outfielder, either Heisey, Ludwick, Frazier, and a good but not great prospect.

I don't see the Reds re-making the team in season. Just let's get LF improved and go to war with a solid rotation, which the team has, and its very fine bullpen.

bucksfan2
05-22-2012, 11:25 AM
Agreed. They especially need to be guys who can hit against RHP. It's why the easiest upgrade may be to deal some of the midding propsects (who are top 10 guys in this organization as it stands now) for some platoon types who upgrade on the days the big split guys (Stubbs, Frazier, Cozart, etc) would be facing their bad side. For example, a lefty who could OPS .775 or so against RHP while sharing time with Frazier would make that spot a very solid spot in the line-up while Frazier by himself is a near auto out against RHP. They shoud be able to get those types without dealing Leake or Bailey.

I don't think this team needs OPS as much as it needs OBP. Kinda sounds odd but with the likes Bruce, Votto, Stubbs, Cozart, and Phillips they all can have above average power for their position. I think the more important thing would be to get someone in front of Votto who has a high OBP that really will punish pitchers for pitching around Votto. That player may be Phillips if you get him out of the cleanup spot. I really think he is the type of player who tries to mold himself for the spot he is hitting in.

The issue is with the exception of Youk, you don't really know who is available or will be available up until the trade deadline.

REDREAD
05-22-2012, 11:53 AM
Well, I don't know what the heck happened but Leake went from having absolutely nothing to now having the best stuff I've seen him have since he entered the majors in 2010. Has anyone else noticed his increase in velocity in his last two starts?.

They mentioned about a week ago that Leake was working in the bullpen with Price on some adjustments. Apparently, something has clicked.

I'm glad the Reds showed patience with Leake.
We all want a young pitching staff.. we have to remember that they will have some rough spots.

WildcatFan
05-22-2012, 11:54 AM
Chapman's spot in the rotation for next year, IMO, is the Arroyo spot. Bronson will have one year left on his deal after 2012, should be tradeable if he accepts the deal. No need to trade a Leake or a Bailey to open a spot.

Not happening. He gets the full $18 million right away if traded. He's in the rotation next year.

mth123
05-22-2012, 12:08 PM
Not happening. He gets the full $18 million right away if traded. He's in the rotation next year.

I get that and think its an issue as well, but I wonder how much of Arroyo's deferred money is being funded now. If the Reds have say, $10 Million set aside in an annuity at the end of 2012, they may be open to dealing him, handing him his parting gift and using the savings on his 2013 salary to make-up most the difference. If that would open a spot for Chapman and fill another hole with whatever they get back from dealing Arroyo, it may be worth doing. If a team is getting Arroyo for merely his $7 Million Salary in 2013, I'd think the Reds could get a pretty good and reasonably priced player back.

It all depends how much they already will have set aside by then.

Caveat Emperor
05-22-2012, 01:33 PM
Last night, Leake stopped trying to fool hitters and started attacking them. His pitches were sharp -- 92 MPH fastballs with movement, a good changeup, and a curveball that he threw infrequently but with great command. He throw the ball inside, changed levels, and kept the ball down in the zone.

I'm intrigued to see this Mike Leake way more often.

WVRedsFan
05-22-2012, 01:55 PM
Last night, Leake stopped trying to fool hitters and started attacking them. His pitches were sharp -- 92 MPH fastballs with movement, a good changeup, and a curveball that he threw infrequently but with great command. He throw the ball inside, changed levels, and kept the ball down in the zone.

I'm intrigued to see this Mike Leake way more often.This.

Simply great pitching. If not for one pitch, he would have had a gem, as if what he did wasn't. I can still see him winning 20 someday. Remember, "he's young."

traderumor
05-22-2012, 02:21 PM
Last night, Leake stopped trying to fool hitters and started attacking them. His pitches were sharp -- 92 MPH fastballs with movement, a good changeup, and a curveball that he threw infrequently but with great command. He throw the ball inside, changed levels, and kept the ball down in the zone.

I'm intrigued to see this Mike Leake way more often.Not to temper enthusiasm, but Leake had his stuff last night. Like Andy Pettite had his stuff Friday. I'm waiting for consistency from Mr. Leake, which will involve getting hitters out when he has less "stuff" than he did last night.

Tom Servo
05-22-2012, 02:35 PM
Good thing he turned it around when he did or Walt may have considered picking up another former Cardinal in the newly DFA'ed Jason Marquis.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2012, 02:57 PM
This.

Simply great pitching. If not for one pitch, he would have had a gem, as if what he did wasn't. I can still see him winning 20 someday. Remember, "he's young."

And that "one pitch"...that was a good pitch too. Down and in with a ton of movement. Just gotta tip your hat to Juan for pulling out his pitching wedge on that one.

Vottomatic
05-27-2012, 07:40 AM
9 hits in 3 IP?

Yikes.

CySeymour
05-27-2012, 09:49 AM
9 hits in 3 IP?

Yikes.

I didn't see the game. Were they hits that were shots or several seeing eye hits.

KittyDuran
05-27-2012, 09:52 AM
I didn't see the game. Were they hits that were shots or several seeing eye hits.

A little of both...

PuffyPig
05-27-2012, 11:49 AM
The Rockies BABIP .600 vs. Leake last night (9/15).

His K/W was 4-1, with zero HR's allowed. He clearly controlled the things he could control.

It's hard to say exactly how bad he was, but he wasn't clearly as bad as the raw stats suggest.

757690
05-27-2012, 01:25 PM
The Rockies BABIP .600 vs. Leake last night (9/15).

His K/W was 4-1, with zero HR's allowed. He clearly controlled the things he could control.

It's hard to say exactly how bad he was, but he wasn't clearly as bad as the raw stats suggest.

I disagree with the bold part. It's one thing to say that a pitcher can't control his BABIP overall number, it's another to say that he can't control individual hits against him in one game. Leake was up in the zone, throwing a lot of meatballs yesterday. If anything, he was lucky he didn't give up any homers.

Superdude
05-27-2012, 01:43 PM
I disagree with the bold part. It's one thing to say that a pitcher can't control his BABIP overall number, it's another to say that he can't control individual hits against him in one game. Leake was up in the zone, throwing a lot of meatballs yesterday. If anything, he was lucky he didn't give up any homers.

Yea, Leake was getting hammered yesterday. Half of his 4 K's belonged to Guthrie. Even as a believer in FIP and all that, I didn't see a whole lot of positives in that outing.

PuffyPig
05-27-2012, 01:43 PM
I disagree with the bold part. It's one thing to say that a pitcher can't control his BABIP overall number, it's another to say that he can't control individual hits against him in one game. Leake was up in the zone, throwing a lot of meatballs yesterday. If anything, he was lucky he didn't give up any homers.

I hear you, as I don't like to use things like BABIP in small sample sizes.

But if you can't control BABIP over large sample sizes, it would seem that you have little control over it at any time.

Superdude
05-27-2012, 01:57 PM
I hear you, as I don't like to use things like BABIP in small sample sizes.

But if you can't control BABIP over large sample sizes, it would seem that you have little control over it at any time.

That's an interesting question. Do the same principles of the macro always apply to the micro? The Rockies were squaring up every ball Leake threw up there last night. It's hard to believe the BABIP against Leake last night should be the same as Halladay on his best night. Making that claim though begs the question of why every pitcher evens out over the long haul.

The other thing to note is that he faced 20 some batters in 3 and 2/3 innings. Even though he struck out 4, there were plenty enough balls in play for damage to be done.

Chip R
05-27-2012, 02:01 PM
I disagree with the bold part. It's one thing to say that a pitcher can't control his BABIP overall number, it's another to say that he can't control individual hits against him in one game. Leake was up in the zone, throwing a lot of meatballs yesterday. If anything, he was lucky he didn't give up any homers.

I couldn't tell if he was up in the zone from my seats but Scutaro's triple was darn close to a HR. He wasn't fooling a lot of people last night and I was a bit surprised Dusty took him out before he could get through 5. He did do a good job of getting out of the trouble he got into more or less.

fearofpopvol1
06-30-2012, 02:26 AM
Congrats to Leake who not only pitched his first complete game and homered for his 2nd time this year, but is also currently trending worldwide on twitter right now!! Next to Katie Holmes, I might add.

I was worried about Leake for a bit there, but he's really come around recently. Hopefully he can keep pitching well.

Also, lolz at this...

Matt Cain upset after giving up HR to Mike Leake - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8RA5p4y7dU&feature=youtu.be)

KittyDuran
06-30-2012, 07:00 AM
If Nuxie were alive today he'd have a major man crush on Mikey! :thumbup:

_Sir_Charles_
06-30-2012, 09:52 AM
If Nuxie were alive today he'd have a major man crush on Mikey! :thumbup:

Absolutely. Good call. :beerme:

KittyDuran
06-30-2012, 02:29 PM
Absolutely. Good call. :beerme:

IIRC Joe would buy a steak dinner or just dinner for the starting pitcher with the most hits at the end of the season. Think Gully won it a few times during the BRM era.