View Full Version : UK Basketball 8th Edition
The team is definitely trending upwards, that's encouraging.
WVRed
01-05-2013, 10:19 PM
UK gets its next big man for 2013 in Dakari Johnson. Not to mention still being in play for the top PF (Julius Randle) and top SF (Andrew Wiggins). Top PG and SG are locked up (Harrison twins), a top 5 wing (James Young) and another center (Marcus Lee) already committed.
Depending on who comes back and who else commits, next season could be another special season. This season, not so much.
Scrap Irony
01-05-2013, 11:33 PM
Depending on who comes back and who else commits, next season could be another special season. This season, not so much.
It would be funny to see UK fans backtrack (as they did two years ago with the Brandon Knight/ Josh Harrelson team) if they go on to another Final Four. At that point, all you'll hear is these fans just knew how good this team could be.
I like Kentucky's team to go to at least the Elite Eight, not because they are currently one of the top teams in the country, but because they have the most talent of anyone in the country, and Calipari has a penchant (especially over the past five years) for his teams peaking at the right time.
Any team with two bigs who can defend, two very good shooters, and the elite athleticism at three spots on the floor is going to be a tough out. Depending on matchups and seeding, thsi could very well be another Final Four squad.
I still believe in this team being right there at the end of the season... I'm expecting big improvements throughout the SEC campaign.
I think most people were counting on WCS being back next season, but that might be a pipe dream at this point...
It would be funny to see UK fans backtrack (as they did two years ago with the Brandon Knight/ Josh Harrelson team) if they go on to another Final Four. At that point, all you'll hear is these fans just knew how good this team could be.
I like Kentucky's team to go to at least the Elite Eight, not because they are currently one of the top teams in the country, but because they have the most talent of anyone in the country, and Calipari has a penchant (especially over the past five years) for his teams peaking at the right time.
Any team with two bigs who can defend, two very good shooters, and the elite athleticism at three spots on the floor is going to be a tough out. Depending on matchups and seeding, thsi could very well be another Final Four squad.
I hope you are right. I am certainly not writing them off and give them about as much chance as anyone. I mean look at our games against # 1 Duke and #4 Louisville.
This team definitely has the talent to compete as you stated.
Harrow and WCS are improving every game. Noel is playing steady as well and Wiltjer seems to be finding his shot.
Right now though I just dont see this current group being able to win 6 games in a row come tourney time. The talent is there but I just have my doubts. Now if they surprise me and do a 15-3 confernece record, then we I may have bigger hopes for them. At this point, I am still saying Sweet 16. (which I am not complaining as we cant have a Final Four every year):D
5TimeWSChamps
01-06-2013, 11:13 PM
Cauley-Stein is gonzo.
He will end up a Top 10 Draft Pick, and even that may be slighting him some.
cumberlandreds
01-07-2013, 10:32 AM
UK gets its next big man for 2013 in Dakari Johnson. Not to mention still being in play for the top PF (Julius Randle) and top SF (Andrew Wiggins). Top PG and SG are locked up (Harrison twins), a top 5 wing (James Young) and another center (Marcus Lee) already committed.
Depending on who comes back and who else commits, next season could be another special season. This season, not so much.
Just need Wiggins and the circle will be complete. Amazing recruiting class shaping up. It's going to be a lot of fun next year. Even if Wiltjer,Harrow and Polson are the only experience back that should be enough to help out the incoming freshman.
Also I think this season will end up being pretty good. You can see them maturing and developing like every Cal team has up to this point. If WCS and Poythress keep showing sustained improvement that should bode well for a deep NCAA run.
WVRed
01-10-2013, 09:23 PM
Bob Knight might be Kentuckys biggest cheerleader tonight.
Did I really just type that?
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Bob Knight might be Kentuckys biggest cheerleader tonight.
Did I really just type that?
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Wouldnt you love to hear what the ESPN big guys told him ? :D
dabvu2498
01-10-2013, 10:41 PM
UK might see a little more zone the rest of the season, eh?
dabvu2498
01-10-2013, 11:11 PM
UK fans hereby forfeit the right to ever complain about Tony Greene. What a hose job.
Scrap Irony
01-11-2013, 03:58 PM
Meh. The call at six seconds (Vandy's ball out of bounds) was just as bad.
The officiating was very poor. Of course, so was the play. Neither team had a good game.
Hoosier Red
01-11-2013, 04:13 PM
Wouldnt you love to hear what the ESPN big guys told him ? :D
Apparently not about how the shot clock worked.
http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2013/january/bobby-knight-has-no-idea-what-the-shot-clock-is.html
I love the General, but I wish he could stop talking so I could stop loving him a little bit less everytime he opens his mouth.
dabvu2498
01-11-2013, 04:34 PM
Meh. The call at six seconds (Vandy's ball out of bounds) was just as bad.
Of course, it should have been a tie game at that point.
And there was a questionable OB call that went Kentucky's way down the stretch also. (I actually thought both of them should have been jump balls, FWIW.)
And I'll disagree that it was a poorly officiated game. I thought the foul calls were pretty decent. But they blew that shot clock call big as all creation.
And you're also right that neither of those teams is very good. Proud of how hard the Vandy kids played, however. Just missed way too many open shots.
The UK team I saw in the first half is pretty damn good.
The UK team I saw in the 2nd half was an abomination.
Kyle Wiltjer.... good lawd.......
I've seen it explained that if you go by the game clock and when Vandy later received the ball after Nerlens' bucket, there had to be .4 seconds on the shot clock when Nerlens' shot was released.
Razor Shines
01-11-2013, 05:43 PM
The UK team I saw in the first half is pretty damn good.
The UK team I saw in the 2nd half was an abomination.
Kyle Wiltjer.... good lawd.......
I've seen it explained that if you go by the game clock and when Vandy later received the ball after Nerlens' bucket, there had to be .4 seconds on the shot clock when Nerlens' shot was released.
There was more than that. Bob Knight explained that there was 17.3 seconds left, I don't even know why they were reviewing it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There was more than that. Bob Knight explained that there was 17.3 seconds left, I don't even know why they were reviewing it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:lol: :laugh:
Bob Knight's insanity during that segment seriously made me wonder if he imbibed some of Grandpa's special cough medicine during halftime or something. He seriously sounded loopy.
gilpdawg
01-11-2013, 09:20 PM
:lol: :laugh:
Bob Knight's insanity during that segment seriously made me wonder if he imbibed some of Grandpa's special cough medicine during halftime or something. He seriously sounded loopy.
Yeah he was totally confused. He was like somebody trying to explain a 1 point safety.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Last night's game showed why I think of this team more of a Sweet 16 as far as ceiling. On a given night they can beat anyone. At this point, I just dont think they can win a string of games like 5 or 6 in a row at tourney time.
Even on the inbounds play toward the end, most teams can lob the ball up to a big guy but we have to keep ours on the bench cause they arent good at the line and thus we lose the ball out of bounds.
Vandy played with alot of grit and didnt give up.
However as I told someone today, for the last several seasons, I was more than happy for UK to leave Nashville with a win, one point or 10. This year.....I was looking for them to assert themselves and they didnt.
Still hoping for improvement.....Go Big blue ! :)
dabvu2498
01-11-2013, 09:27 PM
The UK team I saw in the first half is pretty damn good.
They shot better. They gave up a slew of offensive rebounds and turned it over too much.
All ills are covered up when you shoot well. Especially when your opponent doesn't.
The halves weren't that much different except Vandy played better on offense. And UK never adjusted to the zone.
cumberlandreds
01-11-2013, 10:05 PM
Meh. The call at six seconds (Vandy's ball out of bounds) was just as bad.
The officiating was very poor. Of course, so was the play. Neither team had a good game.
I agree it was. That was plainly a makeup call. Anytime you have Tony Greene calling a game anymore something strange is going to happen.
I thought UK played well for about 28 minutes. They saw that zone and just went beserk. Like they had never seen one before in their life. Sweet 16 is probably the most this team can accomplish. But right now I will be satisfied with just making the NCAA's.
The Knight alzheimer moment at the end was funny. The two clocks together just totally confused him. :lol:
Assembly Hall
01-12-2013, 06:36 PM
Awfully quiet in here.
Noel showing lots of improvement every game. Unfortunately, another loss though.
Granted, A & M is a better team than most realize but still, UK has to win these games at home.
NIT is not out of the question at this point.
New York Red
01-12-2013, 09:40 PM
Awfully quiet in here.
I don't know who's worse, UofL fans or IU fans. Neither has won a championship in a combined 53 years of basketball, yet they trash talk fans of a school that has completely owned them in every possible way, and has three championships in the last 16 years. I guess when you've been post-season garbage for so long, the regular season is all you have. The funny thing is, one of you is going home a loser this year too, and probably both of you. Then what?
REDblooded
01-13-2013, 02:07 AM
I don't know who's worse, UofL fans or IU fans. Neither has won a championship in a combined 53 years of basketball, yet they trash talk fans of a school that has completely owned them in every possible way, and has three championships in the last 16 years. I guess when you've been post-season garbage for so long, the regular season is all you have. The funny thing is, one of you is going home a loser this year too, and probably both of you. Then what?
Who cares? Fact of the matter is, both have a FAR better shot of winning the NC this year than UK does. So quit trying to play to history when you're having a down year. You embraced this coach and the culture that comes with it. So don't cry when it goes bad... And this year... Oh God is it going bad.
The thing you should worry about... What happens in the next few years when one of your hired guns gets upset about playing time and spills the beans? It's bound to happen. And at that point, you're a decade removed from winning a NC yourself. I wouldn't hang my hat on NC #vaca8
Assembly Hall
01-13-2013, 08:33 AM
I don't know who's worse, UofL fans or IU fans. Neither has won a championship in a combined 53 years of basketball, yet they trash talk fans of a school that has completely owned them in every possible way, and has three championships in the last 16 years. I guess when you've been post-season garbage for so long, the regular season is all you have. The funny thing is, one of you is going home a loser this year too, and probably both of you. Then what?
LOL........my point was that is awfully quiet in here. If my team was struggling you bet I would be talking about it. Keep in mind it has been 22 years since the Reds won a championship......post-season garbage for so long? LOL, but I imagine your perspective on that is quite a bit different.
Assembly Hall
01-13-2013, 08:38 AM
Who cares? Fact of the matter is, both have a FAR better shot of winning the NC this year than UK does. So quit trying to play to history when you're having a down year. You embraced this coach and the culture that comes with it. So don't cry when it goes bad... And this year... Oh God is it going bad.
The thing you should worry about... What happens in the next few years when one of your hired guns gets upset about playing time and spills the beans? It's bound to happen. And at that point, you're a decade removed from winning a NC yourself. I wouldn't hang my hat on NC #vaca8
LOL.......that first paragraph was very well said. That second one is conjecture!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup:
Who cares? Fact of the matter is, both have a FAR better shot of winning the NC this year than UK does. So quit trying to play to history when you're having a down year. You embraced this coach and the culture that comes with it. So don't cry when it goes bad... And this year... Oh God is it going bad.
The thing you should worry about... What happens in the next few years when one of your hired guns gets upset about playing time and spills the beans? It's bound to happen. And at that point, you're a decade removed from winning a NC yourself. I wouldn't hang my hat on NC #vaca8
So one of our future "hired guns" is going to "spill the beans" which will lead to a retroactive vacating of a title won years before by different players. Hoosier logic, everybody! :laugh:
Didn't your school JUST get off probation? Didn't your coach JUST cheat again in the Gary Harris recruitment? Isn't your team propped up by the cheating A-Hope foundation? Is that "Christian" group still cutting off player's cell phones if they go to the "wrong" school? Shameful, you should be embarrassed.
What's been the culture at Indiana for the last 20 or so years? Mainly a culture of losing. Oh yeah, and most recently, CHEATING.
How about we compare NCAA violations of our respective programs over the past 20 years?
Run along now, butthurt lil Hoosier. Those Sweet 16 rings need polishing.
Keep talking smack about a program that has completely owned you over two decades plus.
BTW: The NCAA tournament isn't played in Assembly Hall, so I wouldn't start counting my chickens or championships just yet. IU is still very mediocre if the game is not played in Assembly Hall and that will end up sending them home in March.
LOL........my point was that is awfully quiet in here. If my team was struggling you bet I would be talking about it. Keep in mind it has been 22 years since the Reds won a championship......post-season garbage for so long? LOL, but I imagine your perspective on that is quite a bit different.
LOL.......that first paragraph was very well said. That second one is conjecture!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup:
Remember when you were leaving this website and never coming back after you got all butthurt when your UK obsession was pointed out? :lol: I see your time away didn't make your posts any better or your obsession with UK any less. Figures a fair-weather fan like you would come crawling back just because IU is having a good season. Pathetic.
Are you willfully ignorant? People have been discussing UK's struggles in this thread regularly.
Of course our perspective is different. We've won 3 championships since 1987.
These little Hoosier dogs barking pretty loud when they STILL haven't won a damn thing. Will there be another shrine if you make it back to the Sweet 16?
I'm really just amazed either of you would even attempt to talk smack about UK. Like bringing one of those rubber stage knives to a bazooka fight. :D
1987. 102-90. #8. 17-4 last 21 games vs IU.
Rushing the court like a midmajor. LOL. :thumbup:
New York Red
01-13-2013, 12:37 PM
Who cares? Fact of the matter is, both have a FAR better shot of winning the NC this year than UK does. So quit trying to play to history when you're having a down year. You embraced this coach and the culture that comes with it. So don't cry when it goes bad... And this year... Oh God is it going bad.
The thing you should worry about... What happens in the next few years when one of your hired guns gets upset about playing time and spills the beans? It's bound to happen. And at that point, you're a decade removed from winning a NC yourself. I wouldn't hang my hat on NC #vaca8
LOL ... UofL fan or IU fan? You have to be one of those. :laugh:
LOL ... UofL fan or IU fan? You have to be one of those. :laugh:
He's an IU fan. Can't you smell it? He reeks of the 80s. :laugh:
:confused: Wait, UL fans smell like the 80s too... :confused: :D
The good thing is that at least one of our rivals--considering how we've dominated IU, not sure calling them a rival is appropriate, but whatever--is going to be absolutely heartbroken (with a good chance that they both are). We're in the clubhouse with our championship...
I promised myself I wouldn't sweat this season if we won it all last year, and a couple Hoosier trolls getting mouthy isn't going to change that.
I'm really interested to see Michigan play Ohio State...
Michigan might just be the best team in the country, will be intriguing to watch them during B10 play.
Would love to see them win it all if UK can't repeat.
Meechigan getting manhandled early by the Bucks! :eek:
joshnky
01-13-2013, 01:28 PM
I don't know who's worse, UofL fans or IU fans. Neither has won a championship in a combined 53 years of basketball, yet they trash talk fans of a school that has completely owned them in every possible way, and has three championships in the last 16 years. I guess when you've been post-season garbage for so long, the regular season is all you have. The funny thing is, one of you is going home a loser this year too, and probably both of you. Then what?
I know you hate it but, the truth is, uofl and iu both have great teams this year. UofL has answered questions about their offense while IU has looked much better on defense.
I know you hate it but, the truth is, uofl and iu both have great teams this year. UofL has answered questions about their offense while IU has looked much better on defense.
If only there were 2 championships to go along with these two great teams... :lol:
At least one fanbase is going to be crying their eyes out at the end... :D
New York Red
01-13-2013, 02:18 PM
I know you hate it but, the truth is, uofl and iu both have great teams this year. UofL has answered questions about their offense while IU has looked much better on defense.
There are no great teams in college basketball this year. It's as down as it's been in a long, long time. The NCAA tournament will be wide open.
New York Red
01-13-2013, 02:24 PM
He's an IU fan. Can't you smell it? He reeks of the 80s. :laugh:
:confused: Wait, UL fans smell like the 80s too... :confused: :D
The good thing is that at least one of our rivals--considering how we've dominated IU, not sure calling them a rival is appropriate, but whatever--is going to be absolutely heartbroken (with a good chance that they both are). We're in the clubhouse with our championship...
I promised myself I wouldn't sweat this season if we won it all last year, and a couple Hoosier trolls getting mouthy isn't going to change that.
We are usually on the same page, WMR, and we are here too. Every UK fan knew this was going to be a bridge year, with next year being another monster with a serious chance of bringing home #9. If this is what we signed up for ...
Elite Eight
Final Four
National Championship
Bridge year
National Championship contender
... I can live with it. :beerme:
We are usually on the same page, WMR, and we are here too. Every UK fan knew this was going to be a bridge year, with next year being another monster with a serious chance of bringing home #9. If this is what we signed up for ...
Elite Eight
Final Four
National Championship
Bridge year
National Championship contender
... I can live with it. :beerme:
I honestly thought this team would be better than they have shown.
Goodwin has terrible ball IQ, Poythress has no heart, Wiltjer has wilted, etc. etc.
Interesting Bilas tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/jaybilas/status/290530266026475520
He's not writing the cats off yet... They've still got a couple months to get it right... However, they really can't lose very many more games unless they plan on winning the SEC Tournament.
joshnky
01-13-2013, 03:46 PM
Elite Eight
Final Four
National Championship
Bridge year
National Championship contender
... I can live with it. :beerme:
I would be fine with that too. And, if Louisville wins this year, I anticipate the defections will leave Louisville with a rough rebuilding season next year.
New York Red
01-13-2013, 03:52 PM
I would be fine with that too. And, if Louisville wins this year, I anticipate the defections will leave Louisville with a rough rebuilding season next year.
What defections? There isn't a single Louisville player mentioned in the NBA mock drafts. Not even in the second round. Other than Seniors, who would leave?
Assembly Hall
01-13-2013, 04:55 PM
LOL....a couple of you crack me up. Good luck in the NIT this year if ya even make that.
WVRed
01-13-2013, 05:19 PM
Who cares? Fact of the matter is, both have a FAR better shot of winning the NC this year than UK does. So quit trying to play to history when you're having a down year. You embraced this coach and the culture that comes with it. So don't cry when it goes bad... And this year... Oh God is it going bad.
The thing you should worry about... What happens in the next few years when one of your hired guns gets upset about playing time and spills the beans? It's bound to happen. And at that point, you're a decade removed from winning a NC yourself. I wouldn't hang my hat on NC #vaca8
The NCAA will likely be kicked to the curb before that happens. If you have followed realignment, you can already see where this is going. If Maryland wins their lawsuit against the ACC and doesn't have to pay the massive buyout, everybody in that conference is technically a free agent. Clemson and Florida State have been rumored to the Big 12 and even Duke and UNC to the SEC. If you're Louisville, you might have just jumped to the next sinking ship.
As for playing time, I really believe that it would have happened already if it was going on. Cal has coached at Memphis and UMass before Kentucky dating back to the late 1980's. Stacey Poole fits your description to a T, but you've never heard him spill the beans.
New York Red
01-13-2013, 05:20 PM
It doesn't take much success to get a Hoosier talking smack. I guess when you build shrines for regular season wins and hand out rings for Sweet Sixteen appearances, your perspective is a bit out of whack.
WVRed
01-13-2013, 05:49 PM
I honestly thought this team would be better than they have shown.
Goodwin has terrible ball IQ, Poythress has no heart, Wiltjer has wilted, etc. etc.
Interesting Bilas tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/jaybilas/status/290530266026475520
He's not writing the cats off yet... They've still got a couple months to get it right... However, they really can't lose very many more games unless they plan on winning the SEC Tournament.
I really believe that this years team lacks veteran leadership. "Uncle Julius" is the closest thing this team has and he is learning an all new system the same as everybody else.
Last year had Darius Miller to rally the team and take big shots. The year before that was Josh Harrellson, before that was Patrick Patterson and the holdovers from the Billy the Clyde era.
Recruiting could really get interesting if this team continues to regress. I know the NBA drafts on talent alone, but Archie Goodwin and Alex Poythress both would be better off coming back for a second year. Add in the Harrison twins and James Young and it might be more loaded than we thought.
Joseph
01-13-2013, 05:58 PM
UofL and IU may well be better this year than UK. Kudos to those schools. UK's the better program IMO.
Assembly Hall
01-13-2013, 06:35 PM
It doesn't take much success to get a Hoosier talking smack. I guess when you build shrines for regular season wins and hand out rings for Sweet Sixteen appearances, your perspective is a bit out of whack.
LOL....whatever you say, you know so much and UK can do no wrong. Let's hang player's jerseys in the rafters for getting beat by Duke! Btw.....let me give you some more of that "Hoosier smack".........Kentucky's woes this year can be traced to only one thing.......they cant win unless they have at least 2 Indiana natives on the squad.....ask Kyle Macy!!!!!!!! LMAO
Assembly Hall
01-13-2013, 06:41 PM
The NCAA will likely be kicked to the curb before that happens. If you have followed realignment, you can already see where this is going. If Maryland wins their lawsuit against the ACC and doesn't have to pay the massive buyout, everybody in that conference is technically a free agent. Clemson and Florida State have been rumored to the Big 12 and even Duke and UNC to the SEC. If you're Louisville, you might have just jumped to the next sinking ship.
As for playing time, I really believe that it would have happened already if it was going on. Cal has coached at Memphis and UMass before Kentucky dating back to the late 1980's. Stacey Poole fits your description to a T, but you've never heard him spill the beans.
I like what you said there about conference realignment. One thing has become quite evident, basketball only matters to us fans......football is king. The SEC, B1G, PAC 12, and Big 12 are the conferences to be in.
As far as the second part of that, the big programs usually get a slap on the hand if it goes on. But SMU still is in my head.
Assembly Hall
01-13-2013, 06:45 PM
I really believe that this years team lacks veteran leadership. "Uncle Julius" is the closest thing this team has and he is learning an all new system the same as everybody else.
Last year had Darius Miller to rally the team and take big shots. The year before that was Josh Harrellson, before that was Patrick Patterson and the holdovers from the Billy the Clyde era.
Recruiting could really get interesting if this team continues to regress. I know the NBA drafts on talent alone, but Archie Goodwin and Alex Poythress both would be better off coming back for a second year. Add in the Harrison twins and James Young and it might be more loaded than we thought.
I completely concur. This team is young and is playing like it. They have the makings of a great team next year if everyone comes back with the additions.
Recruiting could really get interesting if this team continues to regress. I know the NBA drafts on talent alone, but Archie Goodwin and Alex Poythress both would be better off coming back for a second year..
I agree totally with NBA drafting on talent or potential alone.
People say Cal hates the one and done. He always seems proud of saying he had x amount of players drafted. Whether he likes it or not, some of these kids are leaving and clearly not ready.
Yesterday, Doron Lamb got sent to the D-League. If I am not mistaken, Jones has been there this year as well and Teague was rumored on his way.
I am not saying these kids would be a world better for coming back another year or two but they say, you play for the "second" NBA contract and not the first and some (other than the Davis' and MKG's) may not get the second one.
As far as this year's group, Goodwin does not impress me much at all. Seems to get most of his points on getting fouled. Rest of time, he is either falling on court or losing the ball. Poythress has been discussed so if he gets drafted, someone sees something I am not seeing.
Noel....he is improving greatly and I can see someone going for this kid with a top pick.
WCS...is showing real potential but still I feel would benefit from a sophmore season.
One more thing on the going PRO....I wonder if some of these kids feel pressured (maybe within self and by others) to keep up the UK to the Pro's after 1 year type thing that is going on.
New York Red
01-13-2013, 10:13 PM
I agree totally with NBA drafting on talent or potential alone. People say Cal hates the one and done. He always seems proud of saying he had x amount of players drafted. Whether he likes it or not, some of these kids are leaving and clearly not ready. Yesterday, Doron Lamb got sent to the D-League. If I am not mistaken, Jones has been there this year as well and Teague was rumored on his way.
The D-League has become a much bigger option for NBA teams, even for 2nd and 3rd year players or older. Better to have them playing and learning than sitting on the bench. I read somewhere that half of last year's first rounders are either currently in the D-League or have spent time there. That includes players who played three or four years of college ball, not just the one-and-done's. But it doesn't effect their pay. They're still making the huge money they signed for.
All the other top schools in the country are recruiting the same kids Cal recruits. They just can't out-recruit Cal. Cal is amazing at quickly developing freshmen -- the best I've ever seen, and it isn't even close. Why would you want to play for Roy Williams or Rick Pitino, two coaches notorious for not developing players, when you can play for Cal? It's a no-brainer.
One more thing on the going PRO....I wonder if some of these kids feel pressured (maybe within self and by others) to keep up the UK to the Pro's after 1 year type thing that is going on.
This is a legitimate question, and I truly believe there is some validity to it. I think this year is the first time it could happen. But in the end, it's the NBA teams that make the call. If a kid like Goodwin or Poythress, two freshmen clearly not ready for the next level, are projected mid-first round (guaranteed $1.5 million+), that would be hard to turn down. It's not just the pressure to keep up. It's a lot of money.
Jones and Lamb came back, won a championship, and didn't hurt their draft status. If Goodwin and Poythress return, and with the monster class UK has signed already, they might be coming off the bench next year. That would mean UK has a ridiculously talented team, but it could also hurt their draft status. Even more so because next year's draft is suppose to be loaded compared to this year's weaker one. These OAD kids are under a lot of pressure. I can't even imagine how I would have handled that as a college freshman.
WVRed
01-14-2013, 07:57 PM
One more thing on the going PRO....I wonder if some of these kids feel pressured (maybe within self and by others) to keep up the UK to the Pro's after 1 year type thing that is going on.
I don't think so. I think it has more to do with knowing that if you stay, someone is going to be looking over your shoulder looking to take your job.
Take Doron Lamb for instance. A lot of people criticized Lamb for leaving last season, but would you come back knowing you would be sharing minutes with Archie Goodwin, Ryan Harrow, and Alex Poythress in a rotation?
That's why I don't think UK will get Andrew Wiggins. If Poythress and/or Goodwin return, combined with Young and the twins, its going to be a massive logjam.
All the other top schools in the country are recruiting the same kids Cal recruits. They just can't out-recruit Cal. Cal is amazing at quickly developing freshmen -- the best I've ever seen, and it isn't even close. Why would you want to play for Roy Williams or Rick Pitino, two coaches notorious for not developing players, when you can play for Cal? It's a no-brainer.
The argument I would use against Cal is that he helps kids get drafted and that's about it. Life after the rookie contract is kind of a different story though.
Starting with Derrick Rose, I'd be interested in seeing in five years how the current crop of Memphis/UK players stack up in the pro's. Cal churns out lottery picks left and right but if they flame out in the NBA, coaches will use that against him and will sadly use it to their benefit as well.
New York Red
01-14-2013, 10:01 PM
The argument I would use against Cal is that he helps kids get drafted and that's about it. Life after the rookie contract is kind of a different story though.
Starting with Derrick Rose, I'd be interested in seeing in five years how the current crop of Memphis/UK players stack up in the pro's. Cal churns out lottery picks left and right but if they flame out in the NBA, coaches will use that against him and will sadly use it to their benefit as well.
I'd say Cal would have to have a long stretch of guys not panning out at this point before any other coach could use it against him. What's a coach like Rick Pitino going to say? He can't get any of his players drafted (two in 11 years at UofL?), while Cal has had one loaded draft after another. Not just kids getting drafted, but most of them getting guaranteed contracts, and three being drafted #1. Cal isn't just getting the OAD's drafted. He's getting kids like Josh Harrelson and Deandre Liggins drafted. I mean Josh Harrelson? That's crazy.
Razor Shines
01-15-2013, 07:00 AM
I just legally renamed my youngest son "2012 Sweet 16".
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For any one watching the UK game, the recent play "is" Archie Goodwin. Fastbreak and Wiltjer ahead of the pack and Goodwin keeps it instead of passing so he can get his points. Sad !
It is common now to see this game in and game out from him. He wants his points and wants to get drafted. :nono::nono::nono:
That doesnt translate to team play.
Cal should have a couple of good recruiting tapes.....last year (teamwork) and what it can get you and this year's team.
cumberlandreds
01-16-2013, 08:52 AM
For any one watching the UK game, the recent play "is" Archie Goodwin. Fastbreak and Wiltjer ahead of the pack and Goodwin keeps it instead of passing so he can get his points. Sad !
It is common now to see this game in and game out from him. He wants his points and wants to get drafted. :nono::nono::nono:
That doesnt translate to team play.
Cal should have a couple of good recruiting tapes.....last year (teamwork) and what it can get you and this year's team.
Goodwin has never met a shot he doesn't like. One player not passing the ball can really hurt team chemistry. Its been quite obvious all season Goodwin doesn't like to pass the ball. Cal should have taken care of this by now.
People talk about Goodwin and Poythress and how they should come back next year. I'm not sure I want either back next year.
As soon as Archie fouled out I felt like our chances of winning went up considerably.
He doesn't pass, he takes horrible shots, he plays defense with his hands and is constantly getting beat...
I'm definitely in the boat of wanting to send Poythress on his way if it means getting Wiggins or Randle.
Archie I think is gone regardless, I would not want to be the GM who ties my future to that draft pick, however.
He did pass it once last night after driving to Mays for a 3. Hopefully Cal will make him watch that on a loop for a few hours to drive it into his skull how you're supposed to play basketball.
I'm glad that Cal has decided to scale back the screaming a bit, it obviously wasn't helping at this point.
5TimeWSChamps
01-17-2013, 11:24 PM
Someone want to guess what Elston Turner did tonight?
New York Red
01-18-2013, 08:39 AM
Someone want to guess what Elston Turner did tonight?
What does that say about UK's defense? Wow. :confused:
C'mon guys, we've seen this a thousand times. Player X (or Team Y in other cases) has the game of their life versus UK... very next game they lay a complete egg.
You'd likely see the same result if you asked the Super Bowl champion to play a "regular season" game the week after they won the championship.
UK really is everyone's Super Bowl. Hell, the only time the majority of schools in the SEC get a sell-out is when UK is in town.
cumberlandreds
01-18-2013, 02:16 PM
Word is coming out that WCS had some minor knee surgery and will miss some games. Cal is supposed to be having a news conference about now and will probably address this. This injury might put them out of the NCAA's. We will just have to wait and see.
Joseph
01-18-2013, 03:49 PM
I'd hate to miss the NCAAs, but it wouldn't be the end of the world in all honesty. This is just not a cohesive group. Lots of talent, but not a lot of 'team'.
Joseph
01-18-2013, 03:53 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/prep-superstar-karl-towns-jr-records-quadruple-double-223503260.html
UK Frosh-to-be records QUADRUPLE double
5TimeWSChamps
01-19-2013, 01:48 AM
What does that say about UK's defense? Wow. :confused:
No kidding, honestly it wouldn't take too much effort, but I'd love to see the records of teams' games after they beat Kentucky
Baylor lost at home to Northwestern the game after
A&M got demolished at home
Sort of changing the subject but (not entirely), I had not seen the ESPN "Storied" feature on Sam Bowie till yesterday. It was very interesting and any UK fan from the 80's would enjoy it. One thing I did not know, but Bowie admitted he knew his leg wasnt well when he was drafted but he said something like "he had family that needed money so he did what anyone would do".
The guy went thru alot. Glad to see him get to at least go out on his terms. (he said West wanted to offer him an extension and he said" No...I'm done and going back to Lexington)
Topcat
01-20-2013, 05:19 AM
The kids UK is recruiting are one and done's how does that show real growth or co-hesiveness ? These pukes stop attending classes in January is that really the kind of players you want representing the school you cheer for?
Sorry yes this is a flame but jesus.............. really is that what NCAA basketball is for you?
New York Red
01-20-2013, 11:54 AM
The kids UK is recruiting are one and done's how does that show real growth or co-hesiveness ? These pukes stop attending classes in January is that really the kind of players you want representing the school you cheer for?
Sorry yes this is a flame but jesus.............. really is that what NCAA basketball is for you?
Every OAD we've had has finished out the school year academically, with the exception of Daniel Orton, who was a total waste of a scholarship. The GPA for UK's men's basketball team is higher than UofL's. Every year. Just because none of your players are NBA worthy, doesn't mean they're better students. You might want to do some fact checking before posting again. And by the way, your coach recruits the same players Calipari recruits. They just don't want to play for a coach who can't develop them into NBA players.
cumberlandreds
01-20-2013, 12:37 PM
Sort of changing the subject but (not entirely), I had not seen the ESPN "Storied" feature on Sam Bowie till yesterday. It was very interesting and any UK fan from the 80's would enjoy it. One thing I did not know, but Bowie admitted he knew his leg wasnt well when he was drafted but he said something like "he had family that needed money so he did what anyone would do".
The guy went thru alot. Glad to see him get to at least go out on his terms. (he said West wanted to offer him an extension and he said" No...I'm done and going back to Lexington)
That was a good show. It was done along the lines of the 30 for 30 programs. I remember Bowie's recruitment and days at UK very well. He was a great player and was going to be a great pro before his injuries started. I didn't remember or realize he originally hurt his leg against Vandy during his sophmore year. I can't blame him for not telling Portland his leg was hurting him before they drafted. Bowie came from a very poor background and this was his chance to escape that. POrtland knew he had a history of leg trouble and it was their risk that they took him early in the draft.
cumberlandreds
01-20-2013, 12:38 PM
The kids UK is recruiting are one and done's how does that show real growth or co-hesiveness ? These pukes stop attending classes in January is that really the kind of players you want representing the school you cheer for?
Sorry yes this is a flame but jesus.............. really is that what NCAA basketball is for you?
I smell a troll. And jealous one at that. :lol:
joshnky
01-20-2013, 01:48 PM
Every OAD we've had has finished out the school year academically, with the exception of Daniel Orton, who was a total waste of a scholarship. The GPA for UK's men's basketball team is higher than UofL's. Every year. Just because none of your players are NBA worthy, doesn't mean they're better students. You might want to do some fact checking before posting again. And by the way, your coach recruits the same players Calipari recruits. They just don't want to play for a coach who can't develop them into NBA players.
Chane Behanon chose UofL over UK although that was likely due to playing time.
But I agree, I'd take UK's one and dones from last year any day. This year not so much but anybody would want Davis and MKG.
WVRed
01-20-2013, 02:56 PM
Chane Behanon chose UofL over UK although that was likely due to playing time.
But I agree, I'd take UK's one and dones from last year any day. This year not so much but anybody would want Davis and MKG.
I kinda wonder how hard Cal recruited Behanon though. I think if Terrence Jones would have went pro a year early Cal might have pushed harder, but like you said, playing time made all the difference.
As for player development, I look at Peyton Siva. Five star recruit coming out of high school. There were some fans claiming that Siva would be better than Wall because he stayed all four years, yet I have not seen Siva on any NBA draft boards so far this year in a pretty weak NBA draft. The only pro I see on that team is Giorgui Dieng, and he is projected late first round.
I think Louisville is at their peak right now for the next couple of seasons. The Indiana pipeline is closed thanks to Tom Crean and Pitino isn't going to get any player that Cal wants. Moving to the ACC could work against Louisville the way it worked against WVU in football in exposing Louisville on a bigger stage. That's assuming the conference stays intact (Maryland lawsuit).
The ACC was UL's only option but they're going to end up hating that decision from a basketball standpoint once they get to start dealing with the Carolina Mafia (The ACC runs through tobacco road) and realize that they'll be fighting for 3rd place almost every year.
Of course, this is all predicated upon the ACC actually surviving as a viable conference which is not a foregone conclusion by any means. Florida State and Clemson want out of the ACC desperately and if that happens I think you'll see the entire conference crumble.
WVRed
01-20-2013, 03:53 PM
The ACC was UL's only option but they're going to end up hating that decision from a basketball standpoint once they get to start dealing with the Carolina Mafia (The ACC runs through tobacco road) and realize that they'll be fighting for 3rd place almost every year.
Of course, this is all predicated upon the ACC actually surviving as a viable conference which is not a foregone conclusion by any means. Florida State and Clemson want out of the ACC desperately and if that happens I think you'll see the entire conference crumble.
Which is why I said the Maryland lawsuit is going to be pivotal. If they win Clemson and Florida State will head to the Big 12 and the rest of the conference will be free agents. I seriously want to see the SEC look at NC State.
Va Tech and NC State to the SEC, UNC and DOOK to the B10, Fl St and Clemson to the B12?
Hoosier Red
01-20-2013, 09:37 PM
Va Tech and NC State to the SEC, UNC and DOOK to the B10, Fl St and Clemson to the B12?
I think the B1G takes UVa over Duke, although Duke would bring in more fans from New Jersey than Rutgers. :)
5TimeWSChamps
01-20-2013, 10:28 PM
I liked Wiltjer running the offense through the high post. Think we may see more of that.
Much more fluent with him rather than WCS or Noel since he can actually hurt you from out there
This team doesn't deserve to make the NCAAT as far as I'm concerned.
Archie Goodwin is a cancer.
Everything I loved about last year's team seems to be lacking with these guys. Asides from Noel.
Felt sort of bad tonight for Noel as he was battling inside all by himself.
I know Bama played better defense in second half but some of the shots Goodwin and Harrow were throwing up were almost laughable and Wiltjer dissappeared till the last 5 minutes.
The one comment Conley made was kind of funny : " Goodwin is throwing up alot of shots that have no chance of going in. "
Mr Conley, that is what we have been watching all season. :laugh:
Officially, Harrow and Goodwin were a combined 5-24 from the floor.
Also , Archie played 35 minutes. So for all of us UK fans who dont care for his out of control, selfish type play, he very seldom seems to draw much of Cal's wrath.
WVRed
01-23-2013, 10:55 AM
This team doesn't deserve to make the NCAAT as far as I'm concerned.
Archie Goodwin is a cancer.
Everything I loved about last year's team seems to be lacking with these guys. Asides from Noel.
I think Drew Franklin from KSR put it best :
This is not the University of Archie Goodwin.
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LexRedsFan
01-23-2013, 11:04 AM
I've intentionally stayed out of this thread because I've been taking my frustrations out on other UK boards and its not been pretty.
I absolutely loathe #10.
WVRed
01-24-2013, 11:22 PM
I really believe after watching UCLA and Arizona tonight that Shabazz Muhammad was the missing piece to this season.
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5TimeWSChamps
01-24-2013, 11:25 PM
I really believe after watching UCLA and Arizona tonight that Shabazz Muhammad was the missing piece to this season.
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Yep, literally just sent a tweet out saying that Shabazz's dad ruined his and UK's season.
A win but yet a game UK should have won handily and didnt. In fact, a slip-up by officials helped near the end.
Assembly Hall
01-27-2013, 10:06 AM
This what a bunch of frosh are supposed to look like when tossed into the position they are in.
I found this quote about Goodwin from Cal.
Excellent coaching move concerning his out of control drives:
“What we’re doing to help him with that is that he’s not allowed to shoot lay-ups in practice. He must pull up in the lane and either shoot pull-up jumpers around the free-throw line or shoot runners. If he shoots a lay-up, it’s a turnover.”
Also, I would suggest if Archie continues to look for contact to shoot free-throws, he may want to do better than 5-9 or 7-13 when he gets there. ;)
WVRed
01-27-2013, 07:19 PM
This what a bunch of frosh are supposed to look like when tossed into the position they are in.
I'd normally agree, but look at UCLA and the success they are having this season.
The key is balance. The Kentucky teams Cal has had the past three seasons have had veterans on the team. This years team lacks that, outside of players who have mostly been benchwarmers their entire UK career (Polson and Hood).
I knew this season would likely be a bridge year. I just expected them to start clicking by now. Noel has done fine and Poythress is starting to "get it". Archie Goodwin might be the one who makes or breaks this season.
Assembly Hall
01-28-2013, 07:08 AM
I'd normally agree, but look at UCLA and the success they are having this season.
The key is balance. The Kentucky teams Cal has had the past three seasons have had veterans on the team. This years team lacks that, outside of players who have mostly been benchwarmers their entire UK career (Polson and Hood).
I knew this season would likely be a bridge year. I just expected them to start clicking by now. Noel has done fine and Poythress is starting to "get it". Archie Goodwin might be the one who makes or breaks this season.
You are dead on. It takes not only veterans, but veterans that have actually played, sprinkled in the mix.
There is still time to get it figured out....it was only a month or so back UCLA didnt have a clue. Right now I think it is a confidence issue as well with the Cats. A big win will get them heading in the right direction.
WVRed
01-28-2013, 10:31 AM
The UK-UNC series is back on. UK headed to Chapel Hill next season while UNC comes to Rupp in 2014.
As light as this years schedule was, next years will be tough:
@UNC
Louisville
Baylor @ Jerryworld
Michigan State @ Chicago in the Champions Classic
Big East team (although that could fall through with the conference collapsing)
If I'm not mistaken UK did sign a deal to play at the Barclays Center again next season, could be wrong though.
Assembly Hall
01-28-2013, 11:07 AM
The UK-UNC series is back on. UK headed to Chapel Hill next season while UNC comes to Rupp in 2014.
As light as this years schedule was, next years will be tough:
@UNC
Louisville
Baylor @ Jerryworld
Michigan State @ Chicago in the Champions Classic
Big East team (although that could fall through with the conference collapsing)
If I'm not mistaken UK did sign a deal to play at the Barclays Center again next season, could be wrong though.
What's tough about it?
Big time programs should always do it this way. There is a reason Izzy's teams at MSU play well in the tournament.
The UK-UNC series is back on. UK headed to Chapel Hill next season while UNC comes to Rupp in 2014.
As light as this years schedule was, next years will be tough:
@UNC
Louisville
Baylor @ Jerryworld
Michigan State @ Chicago in the Champions Classic
Big East team (although that could fall through with the conference collapsing)
If I'm not mistaken UK did sign a deal to play at the Barclays Center again next season, could be wrong though.
UK is playing in Barclays again next season, already confirmed and verified by Coach Cal.
WVRed
01-28-2013, 11:31 AM
What's tough about it?
Big time programs should always do it this way. There is a reason Izzy's teams at MSU play well in the tournament.
I was referencing how stacked next seasons schedule looks compared to this seasons. With how light this seasons is and the lack of quality wins UK is on the bubble right now for making the tournament. Next year looks a lot better.
Forgot that UK was also considering a neutral site game with Duke as well. No idea if thats still in the works.
I was referencing how stacked next seasons schedule looks compared to this seasons. With how light this seasons is and the lack of quality wins UK is on the bubble right now for making the tournament. Next year looks a lot better.
Forgot that UK was also considering a neutral site game with Duke as well. No idea if thats still in the works.
Too bad IU was too scared to play UK neutral site this season in Indy, they likely could have gotten a little bit closer to back to .500 vs UK.
UofL has answered questions about their offense .
You serious, Clark?
#L1C4 losses in a Row??
#GoPitt :D
If I had to pick a favorite to win it all today, I guess I would have to go with Kansas. At the same time, it wouldn't surprise me to see them stub their toe against a midmajor yet again...
There aren't any great teams this season... More and more I'm thinking the champion this year could be some team out of left field who gets hot at the right time and catches a few lucky breaks along the way.
New York Red
01-28-2013, 04:26 PM
I'm not one to usually condone violence, but I hope one of our guys puts an elbow into Marshall Henderson's grill tomorrow night. That kid might be the biggest punk I've ever seen in the SEC.
Assembly Hall
01-28-2013, 04:34 PM
Too bad IU was too scared to play UK neutral site this season in Indy, they likely could have gotten a little bit closer to back to .500 vs UK.
LOL.......too bad UK didnt want Big Red Nation in Lexington you mean. Might have boosted the Cats RPI.
Assembly Hall
01-28-2013, 04:36 PM
I was referencing how stacked next seasons schedule looks compared to this seasons. With how light this seasons is and the lack of quality wins UK is on the bubble right now for making the tournament. Next year looks a lot better.
Forgot that UK was also considering a neutral site game with Duke as well. No idea if thats still in the works.
I see what you are saying WV. The schedule is what it is. You just never know how it is gonna look at the end of the year.....ask the Notre Dame football team!
I'm not one to usually condone violence, but I hope one of our guys puts an elbow into Marshall Henderson's grill tomorrow night. That kid might be the biggest punk I've ever seen in the SEC.
This dude has been arrested for using counterfeit money to purchase marijuana. TWICE. :rolleyes:
Epic DB doesn't really come close to describing him...
He will drop a ton on UK if they don't seriously sack up and get in his grill.
LOL.......too bad UK didnt want Big Red Nation in Lexington you mean. Might have boosted the Cats RPI.
If I was an IU fan I would be ticked that my administration didn't jump all over that neutral site deal. IU would have been heavy, heavy favorites to win that game.
Hoosier Red
01-28-2013, 04:55 PM
If I was an IU fan I would be ticked that my administration didn't jump all over that neutral site deal. IU would have been heavy, heavy favorites to win that game.
I don't know, if they had to bump the South Dakota St game, it would have hurt IU's RPI. Maybe we were better off after all. :D
Revering4Blue
01-28-2013, 04:57 PM
If I was an IU fan I would be ticked that my administration didn't jump all over that neutral site deal. IU would have been heavy, heavy favorites to win that game.
Playing the game in Louisville for four years -- both teams alternating yearly as the "home" team -- would have been fine with me. Alas, that ship has sailed.
delphineboom
01-28-2013, 09:22 PM
Yay I'm glad there's a UK football thread! Been looking for a proper one for ages
LexRedsFan
01-28-2013, 09:44 PM
Playing the game in Louisville for four years -- both teams alternating yearly as the "home" team -- would have been fine with me. Alas, that ship has sailed.
No joke...I always wondered why it rotated between Indy and Louisville, honestly. Louisville was a perfect location for the game if you ask me.
Obviously no one did though, since the Gillipsie-Sampson games were the first time I saw games in Assembly and Rupp. It's part of why I liked the neutral site games better.
gilpdawg
01-28-2013, 10:41 PM
No joke...I always wondered why it rotated between Indy and Louisville, honestly. Louisville was a perfect location for the game if you ask me.
Obviously no one did though, since the Gillipsie-Sampson games were the first time I saw games in Assembly and Rupp. It's part of why I liked the neutral site games better.
I don't know why everyone acts like it was some breach of tradition to start playing on campus sites. They didn't start the neutral thing until the 90s, except for that Big Four Classic thing in the late 80s but that didn't last long.
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Revering4Blue
01-29-2013, 12:37 PM
I don't know why everyone acts like it was some breach of tradition to start playing on campus sites. They didn't start the neutral thing until the 90s, except for that Big Four Classic thing in the late 80s but that didn't last long.
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That's true. But while it's not the end of the world that UK and IU are no longer playing each other on a yearly basis, I still believe that an annual neutral game is a reasonable compromise and that Louisville is the perfect location for such an annual match up, logistically and otherwise.
As an aside, I'm not buying the argument that playing in Louisville gives UK an advantage, though, to the credit of all Redzoners, I've heard no such argument on this board.
Who knows if UL would even let the game happen. It would have to be at the YUM! Center and UL is intent on driving that building into bankruptcy ASAP.
I'm guessing they would use their "scheduling priority" to make scheduling the game there an impossibility.
New York Red
01-29-2013, 01:49 PM
I don't know why everyone acts like it was some breach of tradition to start playing on campus sites. They didn't start the neutral thing until the 90s, except for that Big Four Classic thing in the late 80s but that didn't last long.
UK was the true home team in two of the first three UK/IU games (1924-1926), but then the series was played on UK's home floor only twice between 1928 and 1976. At that point the two teams had played 18 times, with only four of the games being played at UK. The first yearly "home and home" series began in 1969, but it wasn't a true "home and home". IU's home games were played in Bloomington, while UK's home games were played on a neutral floor in Louisville.
It wasn't until 1976 that it truly became a home and home series, with each team playing on the other's home floor. That ended after the Bloomington game in 1986, with Bobby Knight saying he would no longer play in Lexington. They did agree to a four-year series that went from Indy (Big 4), to Lexington, back to Indy (Big 4) then ending in Bloomington in 1988 -- the last time Knight would bring his team to Lexington.
Starting in 1991, the series went back to neutral sites only, until 2006 when the latest, brief, home and home series started. So if you look at it closely, there's really never been a time when the series was a true home and home, other than just a few years a couple different times. They've played 56 times, with exactly half of them (28) being played on neutral courts.
WVRed
01-29-2013, 08:51 PM
In other news, the SEC-Big East Challenge has been canceled due to conference realignment. Taking its place is the SEC-Big 12 challenge.
With that said, Kansas, Texas, or West Virginia would be the likely matchups next season.
Nerlens Noel might actually end up being better than Anthony Davis.
I cannot believe I typed that. :eek:
He would be my #1 pick if I was a GM in charge of the decision.
Scrap Irony
01-29-2013, 11:34 PM
Nerlens Noel might actually end up being better than Anthony Davis.
I cannot believe I typed that. :eek:
He would be my #1 pick if I was a GM in charge of the decision.
His upside is enormous.
But his body language sucks.
11 blocks. I'm still amazed at the two blocked dunks with four fouls. Those were nasty as any since Patrick Ewing. (Who he reminds me of.).
If Kentucky can survive the rest of their SEC schedule with two losses, go to the finals of the SEC Tournament before losing again, they'll get a five seed, IMO.
And no one will want to play them in the tournament. Depending on their draw, they could very well do another Final Four.
Wiltjer's getting better and better by being tougher and tougher. Poythress is getting tougher too. Goodwin does't have to carry the team. Cauley-Stein comes back, Harrow continues getting better-- I'm telling you, this team could very well surprise.
cumberlandreds
01-30-2013, 08:26 AM
His upside is enormous.
But his body language sucks.
11 blocks. I'm still amazed at the two blocked dunks with four fouls. Those were nasty as any since Patrick Ewing. (Who he reminds me of.).
If Kentucky can survive the rest of their SEC schedule with two losses, go to the finals of the SEC Tournament before losing again, they'll get a five seed, IMO.
And no one will want to play them in the tournament. Depending on their draw, they could very well do another Final Four.
Wiltjer's getting better and better by being tougher and tougher. Poythress is getting tougher too. Goodwin does't have to carry the team. Cauley-Stein comes back, Harrow continues getting better-- I'm telling you, this team could very well surprise.
I don't know where you get his body language sucks. Interested to know why you think that. To me, the guy plays hard all the time. Always hustling and diving for balls. He probably takes too many chances for steals if anything.
He broke the UK single game record for block shots last night with 12. If UK could play 40 games this season he would have a chance at Davis single season record. I hope he gets that chance because it would mean UK is in the finals.
bucksfan2
01-30-2013, 08:44 AM
Nerlens Noel might actually end up being better than Anthony Davis.
I cannot believe I typed that. :eek:
He would be my #1 pick if I was a GM in charge of the decision.
I just watched a little of the game but he pretty much camped out in the paint.
What made Davis so unique is he could guard a guard after a pick on the high post and block an outside shot, mid range shot, and one around the rim.
I watched the first half and man was that some poor basketball. The refs sure dictated the pace of play in the 1st.
Hoosier Red
01-30-2013, 08:57 AM
His upside is enormous.
But his body language sucks.
11 blocks. I'm still amazed at the two blocked dunks with four fouls. Those were nasty as any since Patrick Ewing. (Who he reminds me of.).
If Kentucky can survive the rest of their SEC schedule with two losses, go to the finals of the SEC Tournament before losing again, they'll get a five seed, IMO.
And no one will want to play them in the tournament. Depending on their draw, they could very well do another Final Four.
Wiltjer's getting better and better by being tougher and tougher. Poythress is getting tougher too. Goodwin does't have to carry the team. Cauley-Stein comes back, Harrow continues getting better-- I'm telling you, this team could very well surprise.
Strong performance last night. Have to say I agree that no one would want to play them, but a lot of if's inherent in the scenario you described.
dabvu2498
01-30-2013, 09:01 AM
Strong performance last night. Have to say I agree that no one would want to play them, but a lot of if's inherent in the scenario you described.
Agreed. Their RPI was around 60 going in to last night and the rest of the schedule is weak enough that they can't sustain more than a couple losses and expect more than an 8-9 seed. Beating Florida is just about the only way to make it happen.
Sea Ray
01-30-2013, 11:45 AM
Agreed. Their RPI was around 60 going in to last night and the rest of the schedule is weak enough that they can't sustain more than a couple losses and expect more than an 8-9 seed. Beating Florida is just about the only way to make it happen.
Oh they still have a game left with Tennessee. That'll help their RPI if they can upset those Vols...
New York Red
01-30-2013, 11:53 AM
Noel is an amazing shot blocker. What he did last night after picking up his fourth foul was one of the great defensive performances I've ever seen, if not the best. He's on Davis' level defensively. However, offensively, Davis in on an entirely different planet than Noel is. It's not even close. Ball handling, passing, mid-range shooting, free throw shooting, etc. Davis had a huge edge (as a college freshman).
On a related note, Cal is known for the point guards he continues to recruit and develop, but I think his string of big men is equally impressive, if not more impressive. Cousins, Kanter, Davis, Noel, Dakari Johnson next year, then Karl Townes after that. That's ridiculous.
New York Red
01-30-2013, 12:13 PM
Agreed. Their RPI was around 60 going in to last night and the rest of the schedule is weak enough that they can't sustain more than a couple losses and expect more than an 8-9 seed. Beating Florida is just about the only way to make it happen.
UK's RPI jumped from 62 to 45.
I just watched a little of the game but he pretty much camped out in the paint.
What made Davis so unique is he could guard a guard after a pick on the high post and block an outside shot, mid range shot, and one around the rim.
I watched the first half and man was that some poor basketball. The refs sure dictated the pace of play in the 1st.
Davis was allowed to float around and make plays all over because there were other players who could guard the paint.
Noel cannot leave the paint. Ever. He's the first and last line of defense when it comes to guarding the rim.
Noel is an amazing shot blocker. What he did last night after picking up his fourth foul was one of the great defensive performances I've ever seen, if not the best. He's on Davis' level defensively. However, offensively, Davis in on an entirely different planet than Noel is. It's not even close. Ball handling, passing, mid-range shooting, free throw shooting, etc. Davis had a huge edge (as a college freshman).
On a related note, Cal is known for the point guards he continues to recruit and develop, but I think his string of big men is equally impressive, if not more impressive. Cousins, Kanter, Davis, Noel, Dakari Johnson next year, then Karl Townes after that. That's ridiculous.
Davis was a guard who turned into a PF almost overnight and was able to keep his guard skills.
Noel is a big man through and through. Davis will be a face-up 4 in the NBA... Noel has the potential to be a cornerstone center for a team which is a very rare commodity in the NBA. NN's offense is still so unbelievably raw... when he develops his low-post game... watch out.
New York Red
01-30-2013, 04:06 PM
Davis was a guard who turned into a PF almost overnight and was able to keep his guard skills.
Noel is a big man through and through. Davis will be a face-up 4 in the NBA... Noel has the potential to be a cornerstone center for a team which is a very rare commodity in the NBA. NN's offense is still so unbelievably raw... when he develops his low-post game... watch out.
Agreed on all counts. "Raw" is the perfect word for Nerlens' offense at this point. He just doesn't have the hands or the touch yet to be an effective around-the-basket scorer. Once he develops those soft hands, with the motor he has, he'll be a monster.
WVRed
01-30-2013, 07:31 PM
Agreed on all counts. "Raw" is the perfect word for Nerlens' offense at this point. He just doesn't have the hands or the touch yet to be an effective around-the-basket scorer. Once he develops those soft hands, with the motor he has, he'll be a monster.
Unlike Davis, I don't see Noel reaching that level until the NBA.
The transformation of Anthony Davis is something so rare that we will likely never see anything like that again.
New York Red
01-30-2013, 08:38 PM
Unlike Davis, I don't see Noel reaching that level until the NBA.
The transformation of Anthony Davis is something so rare that we will likely never see anything like that again.
Once again, I agree. I wasn't suggesting that Nerlens would develop those soft hands in college (assuming he's a OAD). It may take him two or three NBA seasons for that. Even then, I can't see him ever having the all-around offensive game Davis already has. That 6'2" point guard-to-6'11" post player transformation, seemingly overnight, that Davis went through is, as you said, just too rare.
Kentucky's last road win over a ranked team was yesterday. Indiana's last road win over a ranked team was 1,887 days ago.
:eek: I thought that had to be a misprint.
They will have 2-3 chances to end that embarrassing streak this season...
UK's RPI jumped from 62 to 45.
What we really, really, really need is a win at home over UF.
That's a tall order, however.
What we really, really, really need is a win at home over UF.
That's a tall order, however.
Plus the way Mizzou appears headed, a win over them may not be as impressive later. Also, if Ole Miss losses this weekend against Florida, they will drop or maybe fall out of the rankings.
On a side note, I seen where Tayshaun Prince was traded to Memphis. Thats good for Prince as Memphis is a 4 seed right now. Course they (memphis) traded Rudy Gay which caused quite a few "Wow's ! "
Assembly Hall
02-03-2013, 11:21 AM
Kentucky's last road win over a ranked team was yesterday. Indiana's last road win over a ranked team was 1,887 days ago.
:eek: I thought that had to be a misprint.
They will have 2-3 chances to end that embarrassing streak this season...
And the eye jabbing never ceases. But I did get a chuckle out of it. BTW, that would be 4 chances......at Michigan, at Ohio St, at Michigan St, and at Minnesota.
Listening to Cal's call in show tonight, he had a funny line. He was talking about KY trying to get in a rythymn and said something to the effect :
" You have to remember....we have played without Harrow for a few weeks and more recently played without Cauley-Stein for 2 weeks and most of the season we have played without Alex Poythress". :D
Looks like AP is finally coming around at least a little.
Assembly Hall
02-05-2013, 07:42 AM
Listening to Cal's call in show tonight, he had a funny line. He was talking about KY trying to get in a rythymn and said something to the effect :
" You have to remember....we have played without Harrow for a few weeks and more recently played without Cauley-Stein for 2 weeks and most of the season we have played without Alex Poythress". :D
Looks like AP is finally coming around at least a little.
Now that is some funny stuff!!!!!!!!:thumbup:
George Foster
02-06-2013, 09:24 PM
Listening to Cal's call in show tonight, he had a funny line. He was talking about KY trying to get in a rythymn and said something to the effect :
" You have to remember....we have played without Harrow for a few weeks and more recently played without Cauley-Stein for 2 weeks and most of the season we have played without Alex Poythress". :D
Looks like AP is finally coming around at least a little.
I think the main problem with Poythress and Goodwin is that for their entire basketball life, they could give 75% and still were the best players on the court. Now, in big time college basketball, they can't get away with less than 100% effort. They have never pushed themselves and they really don't know how too.
I know from coaching kids, it's hard to coach effort. I have had kids on my team that NEVER gave me 100%. They never pushed themselves to their physical limits. Sort of sad really.
I think Cal is experiencing this exact same thing with several players
Noel looking like the number 1 pick :
“Nerlens has been separating himself from the pack,” one scout told SNY.tv. “He has taken his shot-blocking to another level. He’s the best interior defender in the game. A second NBA scout told the website that gets better every week offensively and he dominates the game defensively. ”Nerlens is No. 1,” he said. ”
Did anyone see the clip of UCLA beating Washington on the buzzer beater and the deal with Shabazz Muhammad ? He clearly wanted the ball didnt get it and had no reaction at all when shot by the other guy went thru. Proceeded to walk right past the celebration by fellow UCLA players.
From the speech Cal made the night SM announced, I think Cal was telling us fans, not everyone is right for UK and SH was an "everyone".
As much as we gripe about Goodwin and being a ball hog, I can not see him doing something like this.
That was an immature moment but I'd still love to have him on this team and I bet you Cal would too.
Topcat
02-10-2013, 05:28 AM
Way to embrace those 1 and dones ya thats what college sports should be about.:lol:
Scrap Irony
02-10-2013, 08:21 AM
Way to embrace those 1 and dones ya thats what college sports should be about.:lol:
So a UCLA guy pouts about not getting the last shot, and it's Calipari's fault?
Sounds like typical NCAA logic... :thumbdown:
The one and dones that Kentucky has embraced include may great ambassadors for the university, an overall team GPA of 3.0, a Final Four, and a National Championship.
It's created a sea change in the sport so that coaches like those at Duke and Louisville now readily admit to recruiting one-and-dones as well.
But hey, trolls just be trollin'. They need no logic. Am I right?
5TimeWSChamps
02-10-2013, 10:03 AM
So GREATEST LOUISVILLE TEAM EVARRR is 19-5, and terrible Kentucky is 17-6.
Hilarious
New York Red
02-10-2013, 12:14 PM
So GREATEST LOUISVILLE TEAM EVARRR is 19-5, and terrible Kentucky is 17-6.
Hilarious
:laugh:
New York Red
02-10-2013, 12:16 PM
Way to embrace those 1 and dones ya thats what college sports should be about.:lol:
You realize Pitino recruits many of those same players, right? They just don't want to play for a coach who can't develop them for the NBA. Who is the last bigtime recruit that improved under Pitino's coaching? I can't think of one.
WVRed
02-10-2013, 06:42 PM
That was an immature moment but I'd still love to have him on this team and I bet you Cal would too.
I posted on here that I thought Shabazz was the missing piece to this years team. The more I see him though, the more I think he is going to likely set UCLA back in the very near future with probation and I am glad we didn't get him.
I can understand losing out to another top 5 program for a recruit (Xavier Henry), or possibly losing a player because of the players personality in not wanting attention (Wiggins). With Muhammad though, you have a coach who needed Shabazz in order to save his job, and Shabazz is wearing a Gucci bag at games. With the situation given, Cal doesn't lose these type of recruits and I wouldn't be surprised if something comes out eventually.
Way to embrace those 1 and dones ya thats what college sports should be about.:lol:
Yeah, because tearing down a NBA ready player and building him back up and killing his draft stock works so well.:lol: Imagine if Peyton Siva had played for Cal his freshman year.
LexRedsFan
02-11-2013, 12:00 AM
Way to embrace those 1 and dones ya thats what college sports should be about.:lol:
You're right. This is what college sports are all about. :lol::lol: amiriteguys
http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2011/08/ipt/1313223690.jpg
5TimeWSChamps
02-12-2013, 08:28 PM
Poythress is such a mental midget
The Forgettables!! :idea:
While a miserable showing without a doubt, IMO Florida is probably the best team in the NCAA right now and probably will be theirs to lose.
Plus they were ready for this game after losing 7 of last 8 to UK and it showed .
While winning this game could have inched my hopes for UK higher, losing doesnt drop my expectations at all.
With the improvement they have made, I feel they have a ceiling potential of the Sweet 16.
A big key more than losing tonight will be how they bounce back against Tenn on the road. If they hang their heads from tonight and lose, then that may lower my expectations.
I still think they are around a # 21 or so team but there's a couple of teams I wouldnt want to play on a neutral court and Florida is one of them.
Who cares about the season honestly, I hope Noel is okay.
Without him, I doubt we make the tournament, and will lose the first game if we did somehow squeak in.
5TimeWSChamps
02-12-2013, 10:25 PM
Hearing ruptured patella tendon.
Hopefully I'm wrong
Hearing ruptured patella tendon.
Hopefully I'm wrong
I heard same thing. That is sad for the kid ! I really didnt think it would be that severe at first. Probably part of that is seeing Goodwin and Harrow fall down so much this year.
Here's hoping for Noel's recovery but this was probably the last game for him in a UK uni if these reports are right. The kid can have an exceptional NBA career by being a defensive force.
WVRed
02-12-2013, 11:29 PM
Who cares about the season honestly, I hope Noel is okay.
Without him, I doubt we make the tournament, and will lose the first game if we did somehow squeak in.
Pretty much sums up my feelings. I kinda got sick watching ESPN talking about how we were going to adjust without Noel. Cal even said he isn't even thinking about that right now, he's thinking about the kid.
WVRed
02-12-2013, 11:35 PM
I think this headline from KSR sums it up:
Kentucky loses to Florida 69-52 in a game that none of us care about right now.
I just saw a photo... I don't even wanna post it here it's so unsettling. He's gotta be done for the season, just got to be. I hope he's not permanently hobbled from this, would be a real damn shame.
IMO, the Florida goal placement is unsafe.
I feel sick to my stomach over this. :(
It just figures the one guy who isn't for one second not giving one hundred percent gets hurt like this...
Stray
02-12-2013, 11:58 PM
Saw the photo from the Herald Leader floating around Twitter. Ugh that was nasty. Hope he can fully recover cause he has a bright future.
LexRedsFan
02-13-2013, 01:43 AM
I'm still awake...just absolutely SICK.
WHY DID IT HAVE TO BE NERLENS?! Not just because of basketball skill...but he's such a great kid. Ugh. :(
gilpdawg
02-13-2013, 02:08 AM
Yeah... that pic floating around is awful looking. Shawn Livingston-esque. Best wishes to the kid from a Hoosier.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
5TimeWSChamps
02-13-2013, 05:36 AM
Nerlens didn't deserve to get injured carrying this sad-ass team
Assembly Hall
02-13-2013, 06:32 AM
Just sad. My heart goes out to the kid.
WVRed
02-13-2013, 01:34 PM
According to Marc Maggard, it's a torn ACL, MCL. Nothing official yet but there was no break.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
cumberlandreds
02-13-2013, 02:16 PM
Noel has a torn ACL. Surgery in one to two weeks. Rehab will be 6 to 8 months. He is done as a Wildcat. He will still be a high first round pick so there will be no need to comeback. I wish him the best. He seems like a good guy who should do well in anything he does in life.
SeeinRed
02-13-2013, 02:29 PM
As a UC fan I can say I know how this one feels for you. I remember how sick I felt when Kenyon went down in the conference tournament.
New York Red
02-13-2013, 05:49 PM
It's sadly ironic that Nerlens got injured doing the things we love so much about him -- hustling his tail off and blocking a shot. Not just hustling, but hustling to erase a teammate's mistake. We didn't have him for a long time, but we'll remember him for a long time. Get well soon, young man.
WVRed
02-13-2013, 07:36 PM
Two things:
1. With the injury to Noel, I look for the "one and done" rule to be discussed in more depth. One of the main arguments has been a NBA ready player going to college and getting hurt, and it just happened. You can also make the argument that Noel going to college improved his draft stock (which it did), but he likely would have been a lottery pick in last years draft anyways.
I'm also not convinced that it isn't going to have an impact on his draft stock. Chad Ford knocked him down to third, but a NBA team is going to be hard pressed to look at somebody coming back from an ACL injury given 1. the timetable for their return (Derrick Rose comes to mind), and 2. the quality of the player coming back. Da'Sean Butler comes to mind. He was projected to be a first round pick and fell to the second round after tearing his ACL in the Final Four against Duke. He never could make it with a team and is now a grad assistant at WVU.
2. I've read from WMR and others that the season is pretty much over due to Noel's injury. The problem with this years team though has been that none of the players outside of Noel have bought in. Cal has tried everything to get their attention and if this doesn't get it I don't know what will. Losing Noel is going to hurt but if it means Poythress, Goodwin, and Harrow start to play out of their minds and UK can get some production elsewhere I think they can still make the tournament. What happens once they get in is anybody's guess.
Assembly Hall
02-13-2013, 07:53 PM
Very fine post WV.
I still feel bad for the kid, but Blue Nation, sometimes good things come from misfortune. Ya just never know how this injury is gonna affect the rest of the team.
REDblooded
02-13-2013, 11:52 PM
The problem with this years team though has been that none of the players outside of Noel have bought in. Cal has tried everything to get their attention and if this doesn't get it I don't know what will.
Since Cal gets a free pass for a lot of other things, who's fault is the above sentiment? The guy who's coaching those players, or the guy who brought those players into his program?
gilpdawg
02-14-2013, 03:26 AM
Two things:
1. With the injury to Noel, I look for the "one and done" rule to be discussed in more depth. One of the main arguments has been a NBA ready player going to college and getting hurt, and it just happened. You can also make the argument that Noel going to college improved his draft stock (which it did), but he likely would have been a lottery pick in last years draft anyways.
I'm also not convinced that it isn't going to have an impact on his draft stock. Chad Ford knocked him down to third, but a NBA team is going to be hard pressed to look at somebody coming back from an ACL injury given 1. the timetable for their return (Derrick Rose comes to mind), and 2. the quality of the player coming back. Da'Sean Butler comes to mind. He was projected to be a first round pick and fell to the second round after tearing his ACL in the Final Four against Duke. He never could make it with a team and is now a grad assistant at WVU.
2. I've read from WMR and others that the season is pretty much over due to Noel's injury. The problem with this years team though has been that none of the players outside of Noel have bought in. Cal has tried everything to get their attention and if this doesn't get it I don't know what will. Losing Noel is going to hurt but if it means Poythress, Goodwin, and Harrow start to play out of their minds and UK can get some production elsewhere I think they can still make the tournament. What happens once they get in is anybody's guess.
He will still be a high pick even if he's not ready for camp. Butler was a fringe prospect. Noel is not.
Assembly Hall
02-14-2013, 06:30 AM
Since Cal gets a free pass for a lot of other things, who's fault is the above sentiment? The guy who's coaching those players, or the guy who brought those players into his program?
I like your train of thought, but seeing how a kid fits into a big time program is a crap shoot alot of times. The college landscape has been littered with disappointments over the years, and quite a few "cant miss" kids have missed.
WVRed
02-14-2013, 08:49 AM
He will still be a high pick even if he's not ready for camp. Butler was a fringe prospect. Noel is not.
I understand, but teams with a top pick are likely going to be looking for an instant impact player. Orlando, Charlotte, and Washington will likely be picking in the top five and will look at a Shabazz Muhammad or Ben McLemore now, someone who can step in and create an instant impact.
Noel does benefit though as this is going to be an extremely weak draft class. His long term impact could outweigh the instant impact of the rest of the class. My biggest concern would be future injuries, especially with Greg Oden fresh in everyone's mind.
bucksfan2
02-14-2013, 09:06 AM
Two things:
1. With the injury to Noel, I look for the "one and done" rule to be discussed in more depth. One of the main arguments has been a NBA ready player going to college and getting hurt, and it just happened. You can also make the argument that Noel going to college improved his draft stock (which it did), but he likely would have been a lottery pick in last years draft anyways.
I'm also not convinced that it isn't going to have an impact on his draft stock. Chad Ford knocked him down to third, but a NBA team is going to be hard pressed to look at somebody coming back from an ACL injury given 1. the timetable for their return (Derrick Rose comes to mind), and 2. the quality of the player coming back. Da'Sean Butler comes to mind. He was projected to be a first round pick and fell to the second round after tearing his ACL in the Final Four against Duke. He never could make it with a team and is now a grad assistant at WVU.
Its an interesting conversation that's for sure. I don't think Noel's draft stock will be hurt by this injury. Had he come out of HS he probably would have been a top 10 pick, previously to this injury he was probably the favorite to go #1 but wasn't unanimous choice. Heck if you look back to Anthony Davis I think you can say his one year in college not only cemented his legacy in the college ranks but improved his draft stock and made him much much more marketable.
De'Sean Butler was a senior and you can say that his development in the college ranks was the reason why he was draftable in the first place. His knee injury probably was the reason he wasn't able to make a pro team, but without the previous 3 seasons he probably doesn't sniff the NBA. I think you can make the argument that it was more the timing so close to the draft and camp that was the primary reason he couldn't make an NBA team. I didn't follow him once he left WVU and am curious as to why he never tried the European route.
I am a proponent of everyone getting as much education as possible. You can probably point to the a player or two that were hurt because they went to college but I would imagine you can point to many many more who were hurt because they decided to jump from HS to the NBA.
To further that I read a story on Yahoo about Vince Young being broke. The gist was he has no money and last year secured a high interest loan to throw himself a $350K birthday party. Granted some people are just awful with money and will spend it if they have it, but furthering your education is never a bad thing. If you could tailor a course in college to athletes, how to succeed after sport, how to handle your money, etc. that would to a long way to helping each athlete as they end their playing days and enter the "real world." For every massively successful player both during their playing days and after there are countless players who are broke and down on their luck shortly after their playing days end.
FWIW I would support a baseball type system. Enter the league after HS or after 3 years in college. The one exception is MLB has a minor league system in which HS players are in an environment where they are surrounded by other same aged players. Its a little different being an 18 year old kid with a few hundred dollars a week to spend in Bakersfiled than it is being an 18 year old kid with millions to spend in NYC.
Hoosier Red
02-14-2013, 09:49 AM
Its an interesting conversation that's for sure. I don't think Noel's draft stock will be hurt by this injury. Had he come out of HS he probably would have been a top 10 pick, previously to this injury he was probably the favorite to go #1 but wasn't unanimous choice. Heck if you look back to Anthony Davis I think you can say his one year in college not only cemented his legacy in the college ranks but improved his draft stock and made him much much more marketable.
De'Sean Butler was a senior and you can say that his development in the college ranks was the reason why he was draftable in the first place. His knee injury probably was the reason he wasn't able to make a pro team, but without the previous 3 seasons he probably doesn't sniff the NBA. I think you can make the argument that it was more the timing so close to the draft and camp that was the primary reason he couldn't make an NBA team. I didn't follow him once he left WVU and am curious as to why he never tried the European route.
I am a proponent of everyone getting as much education as possible. You can probably point to the a player or two that were hurt because they went to college but I would imagine you can point to many many more who were hurt because they decided to jump from HS to the NBA.
To further that I read a story on Yahoo about Vince Young being broke. The gist was he has no money and last year secured a high interest loan to throw himself a $350K birthday party. Granted some people are just awful with money and will spend it if they have it, but furthering your education is never a bad thing. If you could tailor a course in college to athletes, how to succeed after sport, how to handle your money, etc. that would to a long way to helping each athlete as they end their playing days and enter the "real world." For every massively successful player both during their playing days and after there are countless players who are broke and down on their luck shortly after their playing days end.
FWIW I would support a baseball type system. Enter the league after HS or after 3 years in college. The one exception is MLB has a minor league system in which HS players are in an environment where they are surrounded by other same aged players. Its a little different being an 18 year old kid with a few hundred dollars a week to spend in Bakersfiled than it is being an 18 year old kid with millions to spend in NYC.
The thing to keep in mind bucksfan2 is that the one and done rule has little to nothing to do with the well being of the kids. More than anything, it's protection for the NBA teams from themselves. Rather than blowing a high round pick on a kid who is not ready and hasn't had any true high level competition.
I tend to agree with the baseball style solution. Perhaps lower the threshold to two years. But for this to be a true equivalent, you'd have to see more players opting for the D-League as a workable path to the NBA.
WVRed
02-14-2013, 09:51 AM
Since Cal gets a free pass for a lot of other things, who's fault is the above sentiment? The guy who's coaching those players, or the guy who brought those players into his program?
Same argument could be used against Roy Williams this year and three years ago at UNC. Or Coach K in down years at Duke. Point is, veteran coaches get a free pass especially if they have impressive track records.
This isn't Gillispie's second year at Kentucky where the overall direction of the program was trending south. This is a year where a defending champion has lost most if not all of their nucleus and is in the process of building it back. My expectations were low for this year, but I still think this team, even without Nerlens, has a run left in them. It's just going to take them buying in and playing as a team and not as individuals.
FWIW I would support a baseball type system. Enter the league after HS or after 3 years in college. The one exception is MLB has a minor league system in which HS players are in an environment where they are surrounded by other same aged players. Its a little different being an 18 year old kid with a few hundred dollars a week to spend in Bakersfiled than it is being an 18 year old kid with millions to spend in NYC.
I've been in favor of MLB's system as well. Although to be fair the NBA does have the NBADL or D-League in which rookies and players on the fringe play in a minor league system. Maybe put more development into that.
Revering4Blue
02-14-2013, 11:48 AM
I understand, but teams with a top pick are likely going to be looking for an instant impact player. Orlando, Charlotte, and Washington will likely be picking in the top five and will look at a Shabazz Muhammad or Ben McLemore now, someone who can step in and create an instant impact.
Noel does benefit though as this is going to be an extremely weak draft class. His long term impact could outweigh the instant impact of the rest of the class. My biggest concern would be future injuries, especially with Greg Oden fresh in everyone's mind.
Not to mention that a great deal of the potential lottery teams all have a common pressing need: SF/Wing. And Charlotte's prime need, since they've got SF covered, is a big man who can score. In which case, from everything I've heard from those close to the Bobcats organization, they are really high on UNLV's Anthony Bennett , who comps as a better ball handling Larry Johnson.
Anyway, my point is that there was no guarantee that Noel would have gone first even if the unfortunate injury hadn't occurred - not that I agree with it with my belief that you always draft the player with the highest ceiling if your team is that bad - so the unfortunate injury may well hurt his draft stock, though not catastrophically.
Scrap Irony
02-14-2013, 11:53 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Kentucky will still be an NCAA team, capable of going fairly deep this season?
Wiltjer will have to play/ rebound/ defend more inside, but he's a mismatch problem for other power forwards-- or centers, if Cal decides to go small.
Cauley-Stein can play garbage man, has much better hands, and is more advanced offensively. He's not the defensive player Noel was, but who is?
Poythress will likely have the offense run through him, a la Mashburn as a freshman. He's also a match-up problem, for either power or small forwards.
The guards are a crapshoot still, but Kentucky would have lost without good guard play anyway. (I think starting the combination of Polson and Goodwin OR the combo of Harrow and Mays makes sense, as you can then "depend" on one smart guard at all times, but the talent disparity makes that hard to do.)
This hurts the bench, but Jon Hood may now get some minutes. He's at least a veteran-- perhaps he has something that can spark the team?
I realize the injuy will make it harder for UK, but, in the state college basketball is in this season, you really don't need much to make a run.
Our guard play is so poor, still at this point, I just don't see it, Scrap.
Wish I felt differently.
They may still limp in, but the committee will use Noel's absence against UK if they're on the bubble at all.
I know middle schoolers who could physically dominate Ryan Harrow. He'll be a good backup for Andrew Harrison next season I suppose.
I'll be glad when Archie Goodwin leaves UK. First UK player of the Cal era I've felt that way about. One of my least favorite UK players ever.
And don't even get me started on Poythress.
Revering4Blue
02-14-2013, 12:11 PM
Our guard play is so poor, still at this point, I just don't see it, Scrap.
Wish I felt differently.
They may still limp in,but the committee will use Noel's absence against UK if they're on the bubble at all.
I know middle schoolers who could physically dominate Ryan Harrow. He'll be a good backup for Andrew Harrison next season I suppose.
I'll be glad when Archie Goodwin leaves UK. First UK player of the Cal era I've felt that way about. One of my least favorite UK players ever.
And don't even get me started on Poythress.
Ah, but the flipside of this argument is the fact that UK is the defending Champion works in UK's favor. Also, Calapari's history of his teams advancing in the tournament - even pre UK - should also play a factor with the commitee. In a survive and advance scenario, his teams are always a tough out.
So, yes, I agree with Scrap here. But in any case, Wiltjer should continue to come of the bench. He's the sixth man of the year in NCAA B-Ball, for sure.
WVRed
02-14-2013, 12:23 PM
Am I the only one who thinks that Kentucky will still be an NCAA team, capable of going fairly deep this season?
I'm not saying they WILL be an NCAA team, I'm saying they can be. They are by no means a lock to make the tournament, with how weak the SEC is this season, I wouldn't be shocked if Florida is the only team to make it.
I see two options with this team:
1. The players rally around Nerlens, Cal uses his injury as motivation for his players, and they start to play. For that to happen, Poythress stops being a teddy bear and starts to become the Mashburn player you described, and Archie stops being, well, Archie.
2. They can fold, winning only against the weakest of the SEC teams. They lose to Tennessee this weekend, Georgia and Arkansas on the road, and get embarrassed again by Florida at Rupp and against Missouri for College Gameday.
I'm not giving up on this team, but Saturday at Thomson-Boling Arena will tell how the rest of the season is going to be.
Ah, but the flipside of this argument is the fact that UK is the defending Champion works in UK's favor. Also, Calapari's history of his teams advancing in the tournament - even pre UK - should also play a factor with the commitee. In a survive and advance scenario, his teams are always a tough out.
So, yes, I agree with Scrap here. But in any case, Wiltjer should continue to come of the bench. He's the sixth man of the year in NCAA B-Ball, for sure.
There are numerous instances of last year's champs playing in the NIT the following season. The UK name and the crowd that would show up for the game would probably help UK more than winning it all last season. I don't see that fact helping UK much at all when it comes to making the tourney. Completely different team with completely different players.
It's nothing anyone wanted to see, but it certainly will be interesting to observe how the team responds to this crisis. The unfortunate reality is that they weren't playing that well before and I don't see a loss of the heart and soul of this team doing much to make things any better.
Probably see Goodwin go even more insane on the court trying to be "The Man." :facepalm:
Scrap Irony
02-14-2013, 02:41 PM
I'm not saying they WILL be an NCAA team, I'm saying they can be. They are by no means a lock to make the tournament, with how weak the SEC is this season, I wouldn't be shocked if Florida is the only team to make it.
This is a silly statement.
Missouri has been ranked all year. They'll make it, no doubt.
Same with Ole Miss.
At least one of Kentucky and Alabama will make it, most likely both. Even Tennessee and Arkansas have outside shots of making the NCAAs.
I suspect Kentucky will make the big tourney assuming they win out against lower echelon teams and win at least one more big game against an upper division team.
Now, they might be a 12 seed, but they'll make it.
I would love a play-in game. We need to do everything we can to keep our win total over KU as high as possible. Hopefully we can stretch the lead out again next season.
That's why I scoff at people who talk about declining an NIT bid. Those Ws count on your all-time total.
dabvu2498
02-14-2013, 04:33 PM
This is a silly statement.
Missouri has been ranked all year. They'll make it, no doubt.
Same with Ole Miss.
At least one of Kentucky and Alabama will make it, most likely both. Even Tennessee and Arkansas have outside shots of making the NCAAs.
Missouri probably makes it, but their RPI is in the 30s.
Alabama? Current RPI 61, with home losses to Dayton, Tulane and Mercer?
Ole Miss has lost 4 of their last 5 and has a lower RPI than UK, and the obvious home loss to the Wildcats?
Tennessee and Arkansas on the bubble? No chance.
Scrap Irony
02-14-2013, 05:59 PM
Missouri probably makes it, but their RPI is in the 30s.
Alabama? Current RPI 61, with home losses to Dayton, Tulane and Mercer?
Ole Miss has lost 4 of their last 5 and has a lower RPI than UK, and the obvious home loss to the Wildcats?
Tennessee and Arkansas on the bubble? No chance.
'Bama has a 2-2 record against the Top 25. Bad losses, yes, but, this year, who hasn't? Their schedule sets up as less than stellar the rest of the way. A 5-2 record looks more than likely the rest of the way, with an 11-6 overall SEC mark. A win in the SEC Tourney-- maybe two-- and there's no doubt they make it, IMO.
Ole Miss, too, has a fairly easy schedule the rest of the way-- they may very well win out to the SEC Tourney. That'd put them at 12-4 in the league. And of those four losses in five games, three came against Florida, UK, and Mizzou. (One "tough" game against 'Bama left, and that one at home.)
Arkansas beat Florida-- badly. The same Florida team that, IMO, is one of the two or three top teams in basketball this year. They have four tough games left and may make hay if they can catch fire again. What happens if they beat Kentucky and Mizzou? That'd be three Top 25 wins and a 10-6 league record.
Tennessee has three tough games left, but no bad losses. (Their worst looks like Georgia just last week.) If they beat Kentucky, Florida, and Mizzou, they make it. If they beat two of them, they make it (IMO). If they beat one of them, they'll need to win the SEC Tournament.
I'm not saying they'll all make it, but I do believe five-- Florida, Mizzou, Ole Miss, Kentucky, and Alabama-- would be in if the NCAA started today. May not be top seeds, but they'll be in.
Rosters for McD's AA game announced today...
UK has 5 signees in the McDonald's All American game and is pursuing 2 others...
Assembly Hall
02-14-2013, 07:32 PM
Big Blue Nation will be fine. You guys are talking draft potential and incoming recruits........wth? The season aint lost yet. You cant go to the final four every year, nor can you expect to do such. Have a little faith, lots of ball yet to be played. The moxy of the 'Cats is going to be tested, but their situation is not futile.
dabvu2498
02-14-2013, 08:05 PM
'Bama has a 2-2 record against the Top 25. Bad losses, yes, but, this year, who hasn't? Their schedule sets up as less than stellar the rest of the way. A 5-2 record looks more than likely the rest of the way, with an 11-6 overall SEC mark. A win in the SEC Tourney-- maybe two-- and there's no doubt they make it, IMO.
Ole Miss, too, has a fairly easy schedule the rest of the way-- they may very well win out to the SEC Tourney. That'd put them at 12-4 in the league. And of those four losses in five games, three came against Florida, UK, and Mizzou. (One "tough" game against 'Bama left, and that one at home.)
Arkansas beat Florida-- badly. The same Florida team that, IMO, is one of the two or three top teams in basketball this year. They have four tough games left and may make hay if they can catch fire again. What happens if they beat Kentucky and Mizzou? That'd be three Top 25 wins and a 10-6 league record.
Tennessee has three tough games left, but no bad losses. (Their worst looks like Georgia just last week.) If they beat Kentucky, Florida, and Mizzou, they make it. If they beat two of them, they make it (IMO). If they beat one of them, they'll need to win the SEC Tournament.
I'm not saying they'll all make it, but I do believe five-- Florida, Mizzou, Ole Miss, Kentucky, and Alabama-- would be in if the NCAA started today. May not be top seeds, but they'll be in.
Current SEC RPIs:
Florida 3
Missouri 34
Kentucky 43
Ole Miss 48
Alabama 61
Texas A+M 67
Tennessee 76
Arkansas 94
Who did Alabama beat in the top 25? Looking at their schedule, the best win I see is agaianst Kentucky. They played a fairly decent non conference schedule but they really didn't beat anyone. Villanova?
Ole Miss does have a pretty easy road the rest of the way to the SEC tournament, but losing 4 of their last 5 makes them a huge question mark. I think they've been exposed.
Arkansas backed their win over Florida up with a thumping at Vanderbilt. Hello... Goodbye. They'll likely finish 3-3 in their remaining regular season for 19-12, 10-8. That ain't going to get it done.
Tenneesse will likely finish with a losing conference record. They almost have to win out to get back onto the bubble. Looking at how it shapes up the rest of the way, I'd say A+M has a better shot at making it than UT does.
FWIW, on Tuesday Lunardi had Florida in as a 2. UK and Mizzou as 9s and Ole Miss as a 10 and no one else, not even in his "next 8 out." And that was before Kentucky lost to Florida (and lost Noel) and before Ole Miss lost to A+M.
I even think Florida is a bit of a paper tiger... The quality of the SEC is that poor. Tuesday night, watching UK-UF and Bama-UGa and then switching over for Michigan-Michigan State was loke watching the JVs play before the varsity.
FWIW, I think they get 3 in... UF is in, Mizzou and then one of UK or Ole Miss.
REDblooded
02-14-2013, 08:08 PM
Missouri's win over Mississippi St last night was their first road win of the season... That's pathetic.
Big Blue Nation will be fine. You guys are talking draft potential and incoming recruits........wth? The season aint lost yet. You cant go to the final four every year, nor can you expect to do such. Have a little faith, lots of ball yet to be played. The moxy of the 'Cats is going to be tested, but their situation is not futile.
This is now the 2nd time you've come into this thread trying to tell us what to talk about and how we should be better fans. Why don't you give it a damn rest?
PS: We've won 3 championships since your last one, we know we're going to be okay. :rolleyes:
WVRed
02-15-2013, 03:10 PM
This is a silly statement.
Missouri has been ranked all year. They'll make it, no doubt.
Same with Ole Miss.
At least one of Kentucky and Alabama will make it, most likely both. Even Tennessee and Arkansas have outside shots of making the NCAAs.
I suspect Kentucky will make the big tourney assuming they win out against lower echelon teams and win at least one more big game against an upper division team.
Now, they might be a 12 seed, but they'll make it.
I forgot about Missouri, that's my fault.
Ole Miss is on such a downward spiral though that Kentucky beating them isn't looking like a quality win right now. If they do win out, it would likely knock Kentucky out of the picture as well.
I'm with dabvu, three teams are in. Kentucky and Ole Miss will depend on how the rest of the season and how deep they go in the SEC tournament.
It's crazy how many page views this thread gets. :eek:
New York Red
02-15-2013, 04:47 PM
It's crazy how many page views this thread gets. :eek:
We. Are. UK. Even the haters can't get enough of us. :D
Revering4Blue
02-15-2013, 08:53 PM
This is now the 2nd time you've come into this thread trying to tell us what to talk about and how we should be better fans. Why don't you give it a damn rest?
PS: We've won 3 championships since your last one, we know we're going to be okay. :rolleyes:
I didn't find anything at all wrong with AH's post. It didn't sound like Grandstanding to me.
Would you rather AH wasted bandwith with ridiculous drivel about one-and-dones and vacated banners?
Neither would I.
Razor Shines
02-15-2013, 08:56 PM
I didn't find anything at all wrong with AH's post. It didn't sound like Grandstanding to me.
Would you rather AH wasted bandwith with ridiculous drivel about one-and-dones and vacated banners?
Neither would I.
Why do you think you have the right to even comment in this thread? The team you root for hasn't won a championship since 1987. That means no opinion you have will ever carry as much weight as someone who's team they root for has won 3 championships in that time.
Revering4Blue
02-15-2013, 09:02 PM
It's crazy how many page views this thread gets. :eek:
Not really.
It happens to be a great College B-Ball thread that encompasses not just UK and the SEC - not everybody pays attention to only conferences located in their backyard - but College B-Ball as a whole.
That stated, we can all obviously do without barbs and non-intelligent discussion.
Why do you think you have the right to even comment in this thread? The team you root for hasn't won a championship since 1987. That means no opinion you have will ever carry as much weight as someone who's team they root for has won 3 championships in that time.
Were you even born in 1987, bro?
Do you even lift?
I didn't find anything at all wrong with AH's post. It didn't sound like Grandstanding to me.
Would you rather AH wasted bandwith with ridiculous drivel about one-and-dones and vacated banners?
Neither would I.
It's the 2nd time he's told us how we're incorrectly rooting for our team. Spin it however you want.
Not really.
It happens to be a great College B-Ball thread that encompasses not just UK and the SEC - not everybody pays attention to only conferences located in their backyard - but College B-Ball as a whole.
That stated, we can all obviously do without barbs and non-intelligent discussion.
Does it upset you that the UK thread is more popular than the IU thread even in a season when UK sucks?? :confused:
Revering4Blue
02-16-2013, 09:52 AM
Does it upset you that the UK thread is more popular than the IU thread even in a season when UK sucks?? :confused:
It disturbs me greatly.
But I hope to someday, somehow pick up the pieces.:rolleyes:
Vitale made a statement the other night like " UK fans have to realize this team is good but not great !" (before NN injury)
Here is the thing. Most UK fans knew this UK team wasnt going to be a dominant team as the season progressed. Some have mentioned maybe Sweet 16 while others say NIT.
It just seems when UK fans say things like " we just arent very good this year" or "this team probably wont win over one game in the tourney", we labeled as sore losers or told we're griping because we want to win every year.
No and I repeat No....we are just saying things every basketball fan says. We could go the UC or OSU thread and see the same type comments.
A boss at my company is a huge U of L fan. He came in the other day talking up Pitino's best team ever and a couple of weeks later, he said "We stink !". He phrased it a little different though. :D
So just because we are on this thread talking of how selfish Archie plays or where Poythress has been hiding all year, doesnt mean we think our team will be Great every year or win it all. Again...we are fans who talk about our team like every fan does only UK fans talk more most of the time.
WVRed
02-16-2013, 02:29 PM
Looks like the team is taking the second option. At least we'll have a game or two hopefully at Memorial.
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Sea Ray
02-16-2013, 03:33 PM
I don't think Tennessee athletics has ever been lower but even at such a point, it's nice to see that they can still make my day. :D I know what colors I'll be wearing tonight.
Let's hear it for the Orange! :clap: Biggest win EVER over UK...:party:
gilpdawg
02-16-2013, 03:51 PM
Does it upset you that the UK thread is more popular than the IU thread even in a season when UK sucks?? :confused:
Makes perfect sense actually, since more Reds fans are Kentucky fans than Indiana fans, and this is a Reds board. Just because the Bengals are talked more about here than say, the Colts, it means nothing. Same with UK/IU. To put it in baseball terms, this board is a small sample size. Both programs are very popular, UK has more of a national following and IU's fan base is mostly located in Central and Southern Indiana but they are both premier programs. Don't know why there has to be a pissing match. Let's just watch the games. As an Indiana fan I don't hate Kentucky, I have a lot of respect for what they've accomplished throughout history. Life's too short to be bitter about sports.
I realize I'm probably going to get some crap for this post but I don't care. It's just one man's opinion, worth what you are paying for it. I know I'm wired differently than most.
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I like Radio man Mike Pratt's comments close to the end of the game :
"Well Tennessee has sure figured out Noel isnt in there". (shot 58% for game)
They took it right at the Cats on the inside and after that first block or so by WCS, that was an ole fashioned butt whoopin'.
Maybe just maybe somewhere Noel is thinking : " Thats okay guys. Next year, I will be back and join the basketball version of 'The Expendables' and make everyone pay for all the beatings you guys are gonna take between now and the end of the season ". :thumbup:
Okay ....a guy can dream cant he ? :D
Topcat
02-16-2013, 05:28 PM
Dare I ask why such highly rated highschool players as poythres and Goodwin can not be coached up by Calipari?:confused:
joshnky
02-16-2013, 05:39 PM
Dare I ask why such highly rated highschool players as poythres and Goodwin can not be coached up by Calipari?:confused:
It depends on the individual player. Wayne blackshear was highly rated for Louisville but has struggled while Dieng hasade great strides.
A better question is why is Goodwin projected as a lottery pick? He looks like a younger, less mature, Russ Smith to me.
WVRed
02-16-2013, 09:47 PM
Dare I ask why such highly rated highschool players as poythres and Goodwin can not be coached up by Calipari?:confused:
It depends on the individual player. Wayne blackshear was highly rated for Louisville but has struggled while Dieng hasade great strides.
A better question is why is Goodwin projected as a lottery pick? He looks like a younger, less mature, Russ Smith to me.
I think I could lump both of these into one post:
I'll break it down into both players, but in a nutshell, these are kids who are used to dominating at a high school level. They could give little effort and turn in big performances and expect it to carry over to college.
Archie Goodwin: Quite possibly the most frustrating player I've ever seen in a UK uniform. He only knows one speed and to attack the basket, which opposing teams and the refs anticipate. When Archie attacks, I expect it to either be an offensive foul or turnover depending on the refs, and when they do bail him out with a foul, maybe make one of two free throws.
OTOH, I'd like to see Goodwin return to Lexington next season. A second season under Cal and an offseason to work on a jump shot could do wonders. Teams expect him to drive, but if he can reinvent himself and become a shooter, he would greatly improve his draft stock. (To answer that question directly, this draft is going to be terrible).
Alex Poythress: Poythress could physically be the most dominating player on the team when he wants to be. We saw it during the Duke game and again with the Auburn game earlier this year, but his problem is effort. If he gave 100% every game, he would be a Jamal Mashburn type player for Kentucky.
The other problem for Cal is depth, and by that I mean quality depth. Cal started Jarrod Polson today in an effort to send a message to Ryan Harrow. If Jon Hood and Jarrod Polson are getting minutes and Kentucky is becoming the laughingstock of the SEC, what kind of message is that sending?
I'd like to see both come back next year and have to fight with James Young and the Harrison twins for minutes. That being said, with the quality of this years draft, both will likely be gone, even if it's not in their best long term interest.
WVRed
02-16-2013, 10:06 PM
On a side note, I really believe this season is over. I've been reading UK message boards with people criticizing Cal even a year after winning it all. Willie Cauley-Stein lashing out at fans on Twitter, Julius Mays desperately trying to take a leadership role.
This is Team Turmoil on steroids. I'm excited for what we have (and possibly could add) next year and hope we can build on this season. It's just pathetic watching people lashing out at a coach who has made Kentucky fun to watch again. I'll even admit I thought this team would be a Sweet 16 team, just not Sweet 16 in the NIT.
gilpdawg
02-16-2013, 10:15 PM
It's just pathetic watching people lashing out at a coach who has made Kentucky fun to watch again.
That's quite lame. Every fanbase has their share of idiots though.
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Razor Shines
02-17-2013, 10:40 AM
That's quite lame. Every fanbase has their share of idiots though.
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No they don't. Ask WMR, he'll tell you. Those "UK fans" lashing out at Cal are just IU and UL fans posing as UK fans. No one dumb ever rooted for UK in the history of ever.
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I seen where Cal had a surprise visitor today while watching film, Anthony Davis.
My mind immediately began to think how funny it would have been had Cal been telling the team "Nerlens Noel or Anthony Davis ain't walking thru that door" and then Davis walked in. :lol:
Okay this is the type of season where we really have to use our sense of humour. :D
TeamSelig
02-17-2013, 10:56 PM
What is wrong with us? Are we just missing a good leader?
What is wrong with us? Are we just missing a good leader?
My opinion is several things.
First : we didnt have that veteran to bridge any youth to experience like we have had with the other Cal teams. No Patterson/Stevenson/Miller/Harrellson etc. Even last year's team was not "all" freshmen as Jones and Lamb were back for their second season.
second: I think this group just hasnt lived up to potential that we were expecting.
Noel- This kid did. Excellent defender who stopped or altered many inside shots. Played with desire every play.
Harrow- has shown signs but not what I expected from a kid who actually has 2 years now under Cal counting going up against Teague in practice last year.
Poythress- dominated in high school but against smaller guys. I think he thought everything would come easy in college and found otherwise.
Goodwin- I really dont know what they were seeing with him. I read he had an exceptional outside shot and I sure havent seen that. He draws fouls (when he isnt charging) and then only shoots 60 % or so at the FT line.
Last years team....was just that....a "team". Some of the main cogs on this team want their points etc.
Down thru the years, UK has always had some kids who just didnt live up to the hype. Growing up in the 80's, I seen guys like Richard Madison, Brett Bearup etc who came to KY with high hopes but never turned into the college players we hoped.
Alot of those guys were 1 per class where this year, we really have 3 if you want to count Harrow.
I think this is just a case where a class brought in turns out to not "get it".
This years results vs last years will give Coach Cal a little future teaching lesson on what his system could produce. No I dont mean always winning a championship but at least being a Top 15 or so team even in a down year.
Assembly Hall
02-18-2013, 07:31 AM
I apologize to WMR if he feels like I am trying to tell UK fans how to root for their team. I suppose I just should have come on here and said it couldnt happen to a better team and UK sucks, but I didnt and wont. Yes, I am an IU fan, but I also love the sport of college basketball and watch quite a bit of it. I try to be objective as best I can, and was just saying that there is still hope for the Wildcats. UConn looked bad a few years back and put it together, NC State battled injuries all season long found a way to get into the tournament and won it all, Villanova surprised the masses, and yes my Hoosiers looked pitiful heading into Big 10 play in '81, how many big time programs get beat by Texas-Pan American? My sincerest apologies for expressing some upbeat thoughts.
Now to some input.........The 'Cats just havent meshed together. There are several reasons for it, but the fact is they just aint playing good basketball. To me the thing that stands out most is that they are not looking good in a very weak conference, and that is bad.
cumberlandreds
02-18-2013, 02:02 PM
What is wrong with us? Are we just missing a good leader?
That and a lot more. Three of the four freshman were way overrated. The point guard replacement was way overrated too and has not responed at all as the season has gone forward. The team as a whole are just not good smart basketball players. Maybe good athletically but not good at the game. Probably many other things too. This is the bad result of one and dones. You can get a batch of them who were overrated and really are typical freshman who won't be a big help for another year or two. Last year we saw the ultimate result in the one and dones. Just have to take the good and the bad of this style of recruiting.
IslandRed
02-18-2013, 03:45 PM
This is the bad result of one and dones. You can get a batch of them who were overrated and really are typical freshman who won't be a big help for another year or two. Last year we saw the ultimate result in the one and dones. Just have to take the good and the bad of this style of recruiting.
Exactly. Last year's team put the lie to people who said a freshmen-centric team couldn't win a title; this year's team reminds us why freshmen-centric teams usually don't. It happens. At minimum, Calipari's probably learned a few things he can apply to his choice of recruiting targets in the future.
But being the first of his one-and-done-heavy classes that didn't really pan out (at least so far, and with Noel obviously excepted), it'll be interesting to see what those guys do with the new recruiting class coming in. Stay and fight for playing time? Transfer? Go pro when clearly not ready?
No they don't. Ask WMR, he'll tell you. Those "UK fans" lashing out at Cal are just IU and UL fans posing as UK fans. No one dumb ever rooted for UK in the history of ever.
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You sure do love your straw men! :laugh:
Exactly. Last year's team put the lie to people who said a freshmen-centric team couldn't win a title; this year's team reminds us why freshmen-centric teams usually don't. It happens. At minimum, Calipari's probably learned a few things he can apply to his choice of recruiting targets in the future.
But being the first of his one-and-done-heavy classes that didn't really pan out (at least so far, and with Noel obviously excepted), it'll be interesting to see what those guys do with the new recruiting class coming in. Stay and fight for playing time? Transfer? Go pro when clearly not ready?
Good post, I'm wondering the same.
If I had to guess I would say Goodwin leaves even if he's a second round pick. I'm so hesitant to say I don't want a FRESHMAN to come back because there can be tremendous growth from frosh to soph, but Goodwin has been playing for himself all season long.
I don't think Tennessee athletics has ever been lower but even at such a point, it's nice to see that they can still make my day. :D I know what colors I'll be wearing tonight.
Let's hear it for the Orange! :clap: Biggest win EVER over UK...:party:
1-7 now vs Cal and UK...
Is that banner worthy? Could make that lone sweet 16 banner not feel quite so lonely in the Thompson boling rafters. :D
Sea Ray
02-18-2013, 04:31 PM
1-7 now vs Cal and UK...
Is that banner worthy? Could make that lone sweet 16 banner not feel quite so lonely in the Thompson boling rafters. :D
1-7, hell you know what it's like to get excited after being one and 20 something in football. Yes, a 30 pt win over yUK is always something to get excited about. As for banners in the arena, I wouldn't know. I've never been there so I don't get jollies gazing at them. As for your beloved UK Wildcats, there's no excuse for that performance. I don't care that you lost one player. You still had 10x the talent of your opponent.
Exactly. Last year's team put the lie to people who said a freshmen-centric team couldn't win a title; this year's team reminds us why freshmen-centric teams usually don't. It happens. At minimum, Calipari's probably learned a few things he can apply to his choice of recruiting targets in the future.
But being the first of his one-and-done-heavy classes that didn't really pan out (at least so far, and with Noel obviously excepted), it'll be interesting to see what those guys do with the new recruiting class coming in. Stay and fight for playing time? Transfer? Go pro when clearly not ready?
I want to focus a moment on the highlighted. You're right to a point but sometimes we as fans and the media as well call last year's group basically a "one and done" freshman class.
Granted Davis and Gilchrist went 1 and 2 in the draft but a lineup last season of Davis/Gilchrist/Wiljter/Miller and Teague probably doesnt win it all.
We had 2 "good" returning soph's in Lamb and Jones. While these guys may never be NBA stars , they were good college players who blended in well.
If we had any 2 of the ones that left early last year on this year's team, we are having a totally different conversation right now.
Imagine right now a lineup of Noel-Gilchrist-Poythress-Goodwin-Teague and then having Mays and Wiljter as bench guys.
I like this satement you made : " At minimum, Calipari's probably learned a few things he can apply to his choice of recruiting targets in the future".
I think like you, Cal may realize he needs 1 or 2 Wiltjers in every class to be there at least 2-3 years. ;)
dabvu2498
02-18-2013, 09:37 PM
I want to focus a moment on the highlighted. You're right to a point but sometimes we as fans and the media as well call last year's group basically a "one and done" freshman class.
Granted Davis and Gilchrist went 1 and 2 in the draft but a lineup last season of Davis/Gilchrist/Wiljter/Miller and Teague probably doesnt win it all.
We had 2 "good" returning soph's in Lamb and Jones. While these guys may never be NBA stars , they were good college players who blended in well.
If we had any 2 of the ones that left early last year on this year's team, we are having a totally different conversation right now.
Imagine right now a lineup of Noel-Gilchrist-Poythress-Goodwin-Teague and then having Mays and Wiljter as bench guys.
I like this satement you made : " At minimum, Calipari's probably learned a few things he can apply to his choice of recruiting targets in the future".
I think like you, Cal may realize he needs 1 or 2 Wiltjers in every class to be there at least 2-3 years. ;)
Correct. Quick math says returning players accounted for 36.8 PPG last year and this year that's 13.9 PPG, counting Harrow as a first year player.
I think you make a great point regarding Cal wanting a Wiltjer or Darius Miller type player or two in every class, but that raises another semi-difficulty. He would be selling different "dreams" and expectations to kids in the same recruiting class. He's set the bar so high with sending kids to the NBA, particularly after only one year, that it might be difficult to "downgrade" to a kid not ranked quite as high and sell him on staying 2-3 (4!?!?!?) years before moving on. Would a kid want to come there for 2-3 years, knowing he'll be competing for time, every year, with other kids who are going to UK mostly to make their way to the NBA?
It's working with Wiltjer. That kid has improved a ton and may put himself in a viable spot to get drafted in a decent slot. Cauley-Stein could also be another interesting test case. I'm seeing his draft projections rising for THIS year.
Razor Shines
02-18-2013, 09:46 PM
You sure do love your straw men! :laugh:
Just taking the ridiculousness of some of your posts to the extreme. You know you think it's funny.
1-7, hell you know what it's like to get excited after being one and 20 something in football. Yes, a 30 pt win over yUK is always something to get excited about. As for banners in the arena, I wouldn't know. I've never been there so I don't get jollies gazing at them. As for your beloved UK Wildcats, there's no excuse for that performance. I don't care that you lost one player. You still had 10x the talent of your opponent.
How have you never taken in a game at TBA??? :eek: You should make it a point to go next season when UK comes to Kville. The UT bball crowd gets up for UK like none other.
This UK team sans Noel is nowhere close to 10x as talented as UT. We're seeing just how overrated Goodwin and Poythress were heading into the season. These are not superstar freshmen like John Wall, MKG, or Anthony Davis. These guys have played like freshmen, and freshmen very often play BAD.
Poythress, for instance, steps out of bounds AT LEAST ONCE every game. Who does that? I've never seen anything like it in my life.
UT had a home court frothing at the mouth and they came out very confident while UK came out like a bunch of scared wusses and that beatdown is the result.
And it's not like UT NEVER beats UK at bball, pretty big difference between 1-7 versus a 26 year losing streak. And regular season games are obviously much more important in football than in bball. But trust me, for UK it is ultimately a compliment. Hell the Hoosiers commemorated their regular season victory over UK on the damn Bloomington phonebook!! :laugh: Strangely there was no mention of the NCAA Tournament rematch. :confused:
UK is everyone's Super Bowl and always will be. That's what these kids playing for UK don't get. They want to mope and feel sorry for themselves. They still, even now, don't really understand how badly every team they play wants to beat Defending National Champion Kentucky.
I'm really hopeful for next year's class. Part of me thinks Poythress could be really, really good as a sophomore, I just don't want to lose Randle and/or Wiggins if they want to come here but worry about seeing enough clock depending on who doesn't go pro. Dakari Johnson and WCS would be an amazing center combo.
Just taking the ridiculousness of some of your posts to the extreme. You know you think it's funny.
I could never be mad at you. :luvu:
We could take a little trip over to Cats Illustrated and I could point out plenty of absolutely braindead UK fans.
Then again, it's probably just UL or IU Trolls trying to make us look bad. :D
REDblooded
02-18-2013, 10:13 PM
Still love the free pass for Cal... It's his team, he recruited it, and he hasn't done a very good job of holding it together. To be quite frank, before Noel went down, you really didn't have a tournament team. Their only win was over Ole Miss, and that's looking less and less tournament worthy by the minute.
This system has been the plan the whole time. The very design of it lends itself to not having meaningful depth and veteran leadership. It's not an accident, it CALIPARI'S PLAN. Quit making excuses for the guy.
I think you make a great point regarding Cal wanting a Wiltjer or Darius Miller type player or two in every class, but that raises another semi-difficulty. He would be selling different "dreams" and expectations to kids in the same recruiting class. He's set the bar so high with sending kids to the NBA, particularly after only one year, that it might be difficult to "downgrade" to a kid not ranked quite as high and sell him on staying 2-3 (4!?!?!?) years before moving on. Would a kid want to come there for 2-3 years, knowing he'll be competing for time, every year, with other kids who are going to UK mostly to make their way to the NBA?
.
Thats an excellent point and to back up what you said, he does "sell" the NBA dream and I'm 90 % sure the only reason Lamb/Jones came back was due to the lockout situation. Without that, they would more than likely have left.
All the kids next season with the exception of probably Willis, I think they expect to leave early which would put them back at square one.
With this class already done, it will be interesting to see if Cal alters his philosophy in any way in future recruiting.
5TimeWSChamps
02-18-2013, 10:17 PM
This was UT's 2nd win over UK with Cal.
UT beat the Wall-led team at home in 2010
Still love the free pass for Cal... It's his team, he recruited it, and he hasn't done a very good job of holding it together. To be quite frank, before Noel went down, you really didn't have a tournament team. Their only win was over Ole Miss, and that's looking less and less tournament worthy by the minute.
This system has been the plan the whole time. The very design of it lends itself to not having meaningful depth and veteran leadership. It's not an accident, it CALIPARI'S PLAN. Quit making excuses for the guy.
E8, FF, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP... That's why he gets a pass. I know you like to pretend last year didn't happen, but the man is coming off a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP and that MORE than buys him a BRIDGE YEAR.
He missed on a couple guys he wanted. If Shabazz Muhammad and Anthony Bennett had chosen UK we would NOT be having this conversation.
NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS are the measure of a Coach at UK and THIS Coach won one his THIRD YEAR at UK. That BUYS HIM GOODWILL.
I hope I have been clear enough for you this time.
I wonder if IU fans came up with any excuses for Crean when he lost twenty games in back to back seasons? :bigthink:
REDblooded
02-18-2013, 10:23 PM
I wonder if IU fans came up with any excuses for Crean when he lost twenty games in back to back season? :scratch:
Why? He wasn't responsible for the previous 10-15 years that had put the program in the state it was in when he took over...
If this was an interview, I'd ignore the rest of your questions.
REDblooded
02-18-2013, 10:25 PM
E8, FF, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP... That's why he gets a pass. I know you like to pretend last year didn't happen, but the man is coming off a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP and that MORE than buys him a BRIDGE YEAR.
He missed on a couple guys he wanted. If Shabazz Muhammad and Anthony Bennett had chosen UK we would NOT be having this conversation.
NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS are the measure of a Coach at UK and THIS Coach won one his THIRD YEAR at UK. That BUYS HIM GOODWILL.
I hope I have been clear enough for you this time.
Did you go into this year expecting a bridge year?
Did you go into this year expecting a bridge year?
I said from the beginning of this thread when talking about expectations that I thought they would be good enough to play with anyone at the end of the year. I said that as recently as a week ago and was in agreement with Scrap Irony on that opinion, one of the most respected posters on this site, and not a UK fan in the slightest.
When the #1 draft pick on your team goes down with a season ending injury, your expectations change. Ask UC fans about their expectations after Kenyon Martin broke his leg in the CUSA Tournament.
Rival fans just need to accept that any rational UK fan is nothing but tickled pink with what Cal has done to our program. Do I think Cal needs to consider recruiting more multi-year players? Perhaps. He was apparently in Pittsburgh scouting a 4 star earlier this week.
Derek Willis from Bullitt East, a player IU, UL, and Purdue wanted, btw, is a guaranteed 4 year player.
Do I consider myself enough of an expert to tell Cal to take a less talented guy who MIGHT stick around instead of a superior one and done type? NOPE.
Assembly Hall
02-19-2013, 06:34 AM
As a rival fan, I applaud what Cal has been able to do up 'til this point. However alot of me thinks that his formula is flawed and this year proves it. I dont mean it in a bad way, I just dont think you can throw a bunch of unproven players on the floor and compete for a title year in and year out.
Assembly Hall
02-19-2013, 06:38 AM
I wonder if IU fans came up with any excuses for Crean when he lost twenty games in back to back seasons? :bigthink:
Sure, some of them did. But you also got to remember that Crean had a big time injury as well. We will just never know what Mo Creek could have been.
Razor Shines
02-19-2013, 08:08 AM
I wonder if IU fans came up with any excuses for Crean when he lost twenty games in back to back seasons? :bigthink:
Yes. Um, his teams were lacking, uh that one thing you need a lot of....what is it? Oh yeah, talent. They didn't have any of that stuff.
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Razor Shines
02-19-2013, 08:23 AM
E8, FF, NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP... That's why he gets a pass. I know you like to pretend last year didn't happen, but the man is coming off a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP and that MORE than buys him a BRIDGE YEAR.
He missed on a couple guys he wanted. If Shabazz Muhammad and Anthony Bennett had chosen UK we would NOT be having this conversation.
NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS are the measure of a Coach at UK and THIS Coach won one his THIRD YEAR at UK. That BUYS HIM GOODWILL.
I hope I have been clear enough for you this time.
BTW, I agree with all of this. 1 year of bring a bubble team for being a NC contender the next 3? That's cool. You tell any fanbase in the country that in a decade they're gonna get 6 or 7 legit shots at a NC, any of them would be ecstatic.
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Assembly Hall
02-19-2013, 09:52 AM
LOL Razor.
WVRed
02-19-2013, 11:44 AM
As a rival fan, I applaud what Cal has been able to do up 'til this point. However alot of me thinks that his formula is flawed and this year proves it. I dont mean it in a bad way, I just dont think you can throw a bunch of unproven players on the floor and compete for a title year in and year out.
I see what you are saying AH, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it "flawed".
I think the only reason people thought Kentucky would be in the mix this season is because of how down overall college basketball has been this season. This team lacks something the previous team lacked and that is balance.
Cal's first team had Patrick Patterson, Perry Stevenson, and Ramon Harris, the latter two had played for three coaches during their tenure at Kentucky.
The second team had Josh Harrellson and two juniors in DeAndre Liggins and Darius Miller.
Last years National Championship team had Darius Miller as a senior. Say what you want about Lamb or Jones, but if Kentucky didn't have Miller to rally around last season, they don't win it all, period.
This years team is reloading everybody. Winning with one and dones can be done, and Cal has shown that, but you have to have a senior leadership. I like Juilus Mayes and what he has brought to the team, but he is on the same learning curve as everyone else.
Depth is another issue, and I'm talking about quality depth. It's like my dad and I were discussing on Sunday about the game. Jarrod Polson put up a lot better stat line than Ryan Harrow, who Cal benched to send a message to. That message isn't being sent though when the team loses by 30.
Something else to consider as well is that Cal's teams typically need a PG catalyst. Derrick Rose, Tyreke Evans, John Wall, Brandon Knight, Marquis Teague, etc. Notice who the top incoming PG prospect (Rodney Purvis) was for this years class and how weak the class as a whole was. Next season we have Andrew Harrison and possibly Tyus Jones the year after that.
I'm really feeling confident about next season, although its going to be a very interesting offseason. What makes it scary is that its really unpredictable:
Archie Goodwin and Alex Poythress: Do they go pro even if their draft stock takes a hit with this season? If they come back they will be fighting for minutes with the Harrison Twins, James Young, and possibly Andrew Wiggins and/or Julius Randle/Aaron Gordon.
Inside: Does Nerlens Noel need a second season in college to finish rehab? He's going to miss valuable summer league time in the NBA, would a second season in college set up a smoother transition to the pro's? Does Willie Cauley-Stein go pro? If both return, UK brings in a four headed monster of Nerlens/Willie/Dakari Johnson/Marcus Lee.
Boston Red
02-19-2013, 12:22 PM
Noel would have to be certifiably insane to return.
WVRed
02-19-2013, 12:28 PM
Noel would have to be certifiably insane to return.
I don't see it happening myself, but it has been floated around. I think it depends on how his rehab progresses but with how weak this draft class is, he could still be a top five pick and be ready middle of next season.
I'd say he's gone and that's the most predictable thing you can say about this offseason coming up.
bucksfan2
02-19-2013, 01:41 PM
I don't see it happening myself, but it has been floated around. I think it depends on how his rehab progresses but with how weak this draft class is, he could still be a top five pick and be ready middle of next season.
I'd say he's gone and that's the most predictable thing you can say about this offseason coming up.
Noel is the classic case of someone who could use an extra year in college. He needs to get bigger, stronger, and develop more of an offensive game. IMO its much easier to do that at the college level than the Pro level. But when some NBA team is going to pay you millions to do that its hard to pass up.
Assembly Hall
02-19-2013, 04:58 PM
I see what you are saying AH, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it "flawed".
I think the only reason people thought Kentucky would be in the mix this season is because of how down overall college basketball has been this season. This team lacks something the previous team lacked and that is balance.
WV, your post sort of sumed up my "flawed" comment. Basically, UK's whole team is unproven. It aint just the freshmen, it also the guys on the bench. Dang hard to win with a team comprised like they are.
IMHO, Kentucky got a lot of hype coming into the year because of what they achieved last year. I saw a few polls that had the 'Cats #1 preseason.
You are dead on about the off-season for the 'Cats. It is going to be very interesting to see who jumps and who doesnt.
New York Red
02-19-2013, 05:47 PM
WV, your post sort of sumed up my "flawed" comment. Basically, UK's whole team is unproven. It aint just the freshmen, it also the guys on the bench. Dang hard to win with a team comprised like they are.
IMHO, Kentucky got a lot of hype coming into the year because of what they achieved last year. I saw a few polls that had the 'Cats #1 preseason.
You are dead on about the off-season for the 'Cats. It is going to be very interesting to see who jumps and who doesnt.
The only reason UK got those preseason rankings is because the level of talent nationally is the weakest it's ever been. I said it then and I'll say it again; the preseason top three was the worst I've ever seen. It's actually turned out to be much worse than expected.
New York Red
02-19-2013, 05:49 PM
As a rival fan, I applaud what Cal has been able to do up 'til this point. However alot of me thinks that his formula is flawed and this year proves it. I dont mean it in a bad way, I just dont think you can throw a bunch of unproven players on the floor and compete for a title year in and year out.
We've been serious contenders for a title three of four years. IU fans would kill for a four-year stretch like the one Cal's on at UK.
I wonder how many NITs UL or IU fans would trade for locking up a guaranteed championship right now? 10?
I heard one fella talking of whether NN should come back. He was speaking of there being a big gap between being a #1 pick and even the # 2 pick.
He didnt mention the numbers though. Does anyone know the dollar difference of say being a top pick as opposed to a second or third pick ?
Also I couldnt believe it when I seen Eric Daniels is still active in the D-League. That got me to wondering what exactly players make if they basically end up being in the D-League. Any ideas ?
Scrap Irony
02-19-2013, 06:45 PM
Around $50,000 per year.
dabvu2498
02-19-2013, 07:19 PM
Around $50,000 per year.
It's actually a good bit less than that. A couple years ago the max salary was about 25k. 50 might be about the max now, but most guys are making less than that.
I know Daniels was also playing in Europe. Probably making a good bit more than he is in the D-League if he's in a top league in a major country.
dabvu2498
02-19-2013, 07:25 PM
Also, according to what I could find, Davis signed for 3years/$16MM. Kidd-Gilchrist's contract is about $1MM less per year. I know the NBA has a pretty hard a fast pay scale for rookie contracts.
Assembly Hall
02-19-2013, 09:33 PM
Great comments fellas......check the ticker.
Assembly Hall
02-19-2013, 09:36 PM
I wonder how many NITs UL or IU fans would trade for locking up a guaranteed championship right now? 10?
Your day of reckoning has arrived. Keep talking smack when you are sucking on a rotten egg. Enjoy the NIT, I am sure you will be tuned in seeing as you are Cal Jr.
It's actually a good bit less than that. A couple years ago the max salary was about 25k. 50 might be about the max now, but most guys are making less than that.
I know Daniels was also playing in Europe. Probably making a good bit more than he is in the D-League if he's in a top league in a major country.
Thanks for info. I wasnt sure how rookie salaries was running now.
Assembly Hall
02-19-2013, 10:27 PM
We've been serious contenders for a title three of four years. IU fans would kill for a four-year stretch like the one Cal's on at UK.
Well evidently the party is over. Welcome back to reality.
Your day of reckoning has arrived. Keep talking smack when you are sucking on a rotten egg. Enjoy the NIT, I am sure you will be tuned in seeing as you are Cal Jr.
Our day of reckoning has arrived? I hope you were drunk when you made this post. :laugh: It's a shame you can't handle posting in this thread without having these mini-meltdowns every few days.
I would consider not winning a ring since 1987 more of a rotten egg than going to the NIT after hanging banner #8. :lol:
I didn't talk any smack, I'm guessing most mature IU fans would trade 10 NITs for a guaranteed championship. If it doesn't happen this season, the diamond anniversary is right around the corner. :eek:
I'm starting to hope your team can avoid succumbing to the expectations of being #1 in the Tournament maybe it will make you and SOME of your IU brethren a bit less bitter and less obsessed with UK. :eek:
#1 in the country and still looking for validation from UK fans. Sort of sad.
5TimeWSChamps
02-20-2013, 01:54 AM
Noel is the classic case of someone who could use an extra year in college. He needs to get bigger, stronger, and develop more of an offensive game. IMO its much easier to do that at the college level than the Pro level. But when some NBA team is going to pay you millions to do that its hard to pass up.
Biggest misconception out there.
Practicing 20 hours a week while going to school =/= Basketball as a full-time job.
He will get better going to the pros than staying in college.
Razor Shines
02-20-2013, 06:12 AM
The only reason UK got those preseason rankings is because the level of talent nationally is the weakest it's ever been. I said it then and I'll say it again; the preseason top three was the worst I've ever seen. It's actually turned out to be much worse than expected.
In the history of ever. Dont worry we all know this season doesnt really count, we'll get the asterisk in there.
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