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savafan
05-14-2012, 05:05 PM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2012/05/shyam-das-mlb-arbitrator-fired-ryan-braun/1


Shyam Das, who delivered the landmark ruling that overturned a possible drug-related suspension for superstar Ryan Braun, was fired last week as baseball's independent arbitrator, a post he'd held since 1999.

A baseball official familiar with the decision, confirmed that Major League Baseball fired Das. The person spoke to USA TODAY Sports on condition of anonymity because baseball had not yet announced the move.

The Associated Press first reported that Das had been fired.

Vottomatic
05-14-2012, 05:39 PM
I wonder if das is true? :D

JaxRed
05-14-2012, 05:44 PM
Good for MLB.

PuffyPig
05-14-2012, 05:45 PM
I believe this will be forever referred to as "Das Boot".

They'll even probably make a movie out of it.

Vottomatic
05-14-2012, 05:45 PM
I believe this will be forever referred to as "Das Boot".

They'll even probably make a movie out of it.

Jonah Hill is already set to star.

jojo
05-14-2012, 05:49 PM
Das ist nicht sehr gut.

So how fair is the process if mlb fires guys who rule against them?

oneupper
05-14-2012, 05:51 PM
Das was too late to catch Herr Braun.

757690
05-14-2012, 06:06 PM
Das ist nicht sehr gut.

So how fair is the process if mlb fires guys who rule against them?

He's ruled against them before, as has every other arbriter. That's not why he was fired.

jojo
05-14-2012, 06:31 PM
He's ruled against them before, as has every other arbriter. That's not why he was fired.

Name another time that Das ruled against MLB in a drug suspension case.

The players have an arbitrator that always rules or them. MLB has an arbitrator that always rules for them. Das breaks the tie. If he had ruled differently in the Braun case, he almost assuredly wouldnt have been fired.

westofyou
05-14-2012, 06:42 PM
MLB also fired the arbitrator who ushered in free agency

Poor losers

wheels
05-14-2012, 06:45 PM
MLB also fired the arbitrator who ushered in free agency

Poor losers

I was just about to bring that up.

757690
05-14-2012, 07:12 PM
Name another time that Das ruled against MLB in a drug suspension case.

The players have an arbitrator that always rules or them. MLB has an arbitrator that always rules for them. Das breaks the tie. If he had ruled differently in the Braun case, he almost assuredly wouldnt have been fired.

According to the rules, the public would only know about cases in which a suspension was upheld. The Braun case was unique because information was leaked before the hearing. So really, we should never know if an arbitrator ruled against MLB.

I don't agree that if he had ruled differently he wouldn't have been fired. He was fired because of the reason why he ruled against MLB, not because he ruled against them. They obviously felt Das overstepped his authority and ruled based on his own personal interpretation of the rules, instead of following them as they were written. A very strong case can be made that they are correct in that belief.

Matt700wlw
05-14-2012, 07:20 PM
Das the way... uh huh, uh huh... they like it.

Dan
05-14-2012, 09:09 PM
NO DAS! NO DAS!

WVRedsFan
05-14-2012, 10:41 PM
According to the rules, the public would only know about cases in which a suspension was upheld. The Braun case was unique because information was leaked before the hearing. So really, we should never know if an arbitrator ruled against MLB.

I don't agree that if he had ruled differently he wouldn't have been fired. He was fired because of the reason why he ruled against MLB, not because he ruled against them. They obviously felt Das overstepped his authority and ruled based on his own personal interpretation of the rules, instead of following them as they were written. A very strong case can be made that they are correct in that belief.Interesting. NASCAR recently had their independent arbitrator rule against them. I fully expect them to fire him. He did the same thing--interpreted the rules differently than the sanctioning body. Nothing unusual in this case. The arbitrator was personal friends with the rule violator. I don't imagine Das was friends with Braun, but was he from Milwaukee? :)

Blitz Dorsey
05-14-2012, 11:56 PM
Good. That guy had no business being an arbitrator after he completely botched the Braun decision. What a joke.

WVRedsFan
05-15-2012, 12:16 AM
Good. That guy had no business being an arbitrator after he completely botched the Braun decision. What a joke.It is amazing how arbitrators sometimes can be not neutral, isn't it? I imagine someone suspected a little hanky-panky here. You know, a litle greasing of the palm?

jojo
05-15-2012, 07:08 AM
It is amazing how arbitrators sometimes can be not neutral, isn't it? I imagine someone suspected a little hanky-panky here. You know, a litle greasing of the palm?

I don't think it's fair to accuse Das of dishonesty.

RedFanAlways1966
05-15-2012, 07:26 AM
I don't think it's fair to accuse Das of dishonesty.

Really... I thought freedom of speech was allowed in this country? I say if you choose to make a living (or formerly make a living) as a arbitrator, then this goes with the territory. Do I know that he was dishonest? No. Do I know that he was honest? No. Therefore, I can accept anyone's opinion on this. I might think one way or another and disagree with the other side, but it does allow others to have a differing opinion b/c none of us (here at RZ) really know. Unless you care to share something that the rest of do not know.

PuffyPig
05-15-2012, 07:46 AM
Really... I thought freedom of speech was allowed in this country? I say if you choose to make a living (or formerly make a living) as a arbitrator, then this goes with the territory. Do I know that he was dishonest? No. Do I know that he was honest? No. Therefore, I can accept anyone's opinion on this. I might think one way or another and disagree with the other side, but it does allow others to have a differing opinion b/c none of us (here at RZ) really know. Unless you care to share something that the rest of do not know.


I think the point was that you shouldn't accuse someone of dishonesty without some evidence.

You state none of us at RedsZone really know the facts.

How can you accept someone's opinion on this when (1) you don't really know the facts (self admitted); and (2) the person who's opinion you are accepting doesn't really know the facts?

cumberlandreds
05-15-2012, 07:58 AM
Good for MLB. Just a horrible decision in that case.

oneupper
05-15-2012, 08:19 AM
I think the point was that you shouldn't accuse someone of dishonesty without some evidence.

You state none of us at RedsZone really know the facts.

How can you accept someone's opinion on this when (1) you don't really know the facts (self admitted); and (2) the person who's opinion you are accepting doesn't really know the facts?

There's accusation (Das is a crook!) and there's speculation (maybe someone suspects some hanky-panky?).

Accusing demands evidence/facts. Speculating only requires imagination.
I think we should be able to explore possibilities through speculation without sanction here.

I'm glad someone raised the possibility of some hanky-panky in the case. Frankly, I hadn't considered it previously (I'm na´ve, what can I say).

Cooper
05-15-2012, 08:40 AM
I wouldn't be so quick to argue that Das got it wrong. There's 120 years of baseball history of management having most of the power when it comes to these types of decisions. There's a history of management not understanding the rules and the implications of the rules. And when managment loses with the rules they negotiated- they often strike back at the system and blame others.

jojo
05-15-2012, 09:06 AM
There's accusation (Das is a crook!) and there's speculation (maybe someone suspects some hanky-panky?).

Accusing demands evidence/facts. Speculating only requires imagination.
I think we should be able to explore possibilities through speculation without sanction here.

I'm glad someone raised the possibility of some hanky-panky in the case. Frankly, I hadn't considered it previously (I'm na´ve, what can I say).

Insuinuating someone is dishonest or a cheat without any evidence to even suspect it (Das actually has a long track record of being one of the better arbitrators in America) shouldn't be considered an acceptable thing to do.

I'm not sure when it has become an acceptable thing.

Blitz Dorsey
05-15-2012, 09:12 AM
I wouldn't be so quick to argue that Das got it wrong. There's 120 years of baseball history of management having most of the power when it comes to these types of decisions. There's a history of management not understanding the rules and the implications of the rules. And when managment loses with the rules they negotiated- they often strike back at the system and blame others.

He definitely got it wrong IMO. And not only that, he impugned the character of the man who collected the urine from Braun. As if that guy really broke protocol.

Good for MLB! It was an absolute joke that Braun got off on a technicality. I mean, OJ and Casey Anthony thought he got off lucky.

oneupper
05-15-2012, 09:21 AM
Insuinuating someone is dishonest or a cheat without any evidence to even suspect it (Das actually has a long track record of being one of the better arbitrators in America) shouldn't be considered an acceptable thing to do.

I'm not sure when it has become an acceptable thing.

Seriously? On a message board? Raising the possibility of some wrongdoing is a fault?
We will have to disagree on that. And frankly sometimes even evidence isn't ever good enough for some people.

"Look at that little girl with the bruises...maybe she's being abused?"
(How dare you insinuate something like that without proof?).
"Look at that guy with the big head who hits more home runs than anyone ever. Maybe he's juicing".
(You have no proof. Shut up and give him his MVP award).
"Look at that guy with all the money and no transparency in his accounts. Maybe he's running a Ponzi scheme'
(He's always paid investors back. You're just envious).

It's acceptable. It's commendable. These things should be talked about.

Johnny Footstool
05-15-2012, 09:28 AM
Insuinuating someone is dishonest or a cheat without any evidence to even suspect it (Das actually has a long track record of being one of the better arbitrators in America) shouldn't be considered an acceptable thing to do.

I'm not sure when it has become an acceptable thing.

Suspicion is acceptable, when it's clear that it's only suspicion and not an accusation. For instance, I suspect that Ryan Braun and Jose Bautista are using illegal, performance-enhancing substances. I have no proof, but I'm entitled to that opinion.

757690
05-15-2012, 09:30 AM
The egregious nature of the decision does yield one to speculate about Das' motives. However, any investigation into his character would reveal that it is highly unlikely that anything sinister occurred. He had a sterling reputation up to this point.

757690
05-15-2012, 09:32 AM
Suspicion is acceptable, when it's clear that it's only suspicion and not an accusation. For instance, I suspect that Ryan Braun and Jose Bautista are using illegal, performance-enhancing substances. I have no proof, but I'm entitled to that opinion.

Actually, we do have proof about Braun.

Sea Ray
05-15-2012, 09:39 AM
Do the Players Assoc have to sign off on his replacement? I thought I read that Das was a mutually agreed upon arbitrator.

jojo
05-15-2012, 09:47 AM
Suspicion is acceptable, when it's clear that it's only suspicion and not an accusation. For instance, I suspect that Ryan Braun and Jose Bautista are using illegal, performance-enhancing substances. I have no proof, but I'm entitled to that opinion.

You're entitled to believe whatever. But why is it kosher to openly question someone's reputation without any real reason?

jojo
05-15-2012, 09:56 AM
Seriously? On a message board? Raising the possibility of some wrongdoing is a fault?
We will have to disagree on that. And frankly sometimes even evidence isn't ever good enough for some people.

"Look at that little girl with the bruises...maybe she's being abused?"
(How dare you insinuate something like that without proof?).
"Look at that guy with the big head who hits more home runs than anyone ever. Maybe he's juicing".
(You have no proof. Shut up and give him his MVP award).
"Look at that guy with all the money and no transparency in his accounts. Maybe he's running a Ponzi scheme'
(He's always paid investors back. You're just envious).

It's acceptable. It's commendable. These things should be talked about.

Seriously. On a message board. Suggesting someone is dishonest without any reason really isn't OK.

Besides this isn't just a message board. This is the ORG.

Its just my opinion but I'm kinda surprised there would be a strong argument suggesting it's kosher.

Junior came up through the Ms system. They have had several players both confirmed and suspected to have used PEDs during his time with them. By the standard that would allow speculation about Das, Jr is fair game. Truthfully the "smoke" is much stronger for Jr than Das (who made one decision that ran counter to some people's preconceived conclusion).

M2
05-15-2012, 10:08 AM
MLB also fired the arbitrator who ruled against it on collusion, and it canned George Nicolau in a fit of pique after getting trounced in every legal forum 1995. The league is predictably petulant when it doesn't get its way. Meanwhile Das will be fine. He's the arbitrator for the NFL too, getting ready to hear the Saints bounty case.

757690
05-15-2012, 10:17 AM
Seriously. On a message board. Suggesting someone is dishonest without any reason really isn't OK.

Besides this isn't just a message board. This is the ORG.

Its just my opinion but I'm kinda surprised there would be a strong argument suggesting it's kosher.

Junior came up through the Ms system. They have had several players both confirmed and suspected to have used PEDs during his time with them. By the standard that would allow speculation about Das, Jr is fair game. Truthfully the "smoke" is much stronger for Jr than Das (who made one decision that ran counter to some people's preconceived conclusion).

Jr is definitely fair game too. But as with Das, any research would yield little to back it up.

And Das provided the reason for speculation... His decision.

757690
05-15-2012, 10:19 AM
To be fair, MLB really should also fire the people responsible for the vague wording in the CBA that allowed Das to make his ruling.

jojo
05-15-2012, 10:25 AM
Jr is definitely fair game too. But as with Das, any research would yield little to back it up.

And Das provided the reason for speculation... His decision.

Because he ruled against mlb, it's fair to speculate that he's on the take?

Selig laughing spreads his wings...

traderumor
05-15-2012, 10:28 AM
The only thing known right now is that he was fired by MLB, and that is only based on reports. The rest is all speculation, by both sides. "He has a good reputation" and "MLB has a history of firing abritrators that rule against them" is just as lacking in logic for those defending Das as those who say "good for MLB, firing that [fill in the blank]." Just because he had a good reputation doesn't mean he didn't do something totally unrelated to the Braun ruling that led to his termination. Maybe it was a series of things. Perhaps it is completely childish payback. Being a personnel decision, we likely will only have our own presuppositions coloring our speculation to go on in this one.

757690
05-15-2012, 10:30 AM
Because he ruled against mlb, it's fair to speculate that he's on the take?

Selig laughing spreads his wings...

Again, not that he ruled against them but why he ruled against them.

Sea Ray
05-15-2012, 10:31 AM
I'd sure fire him if I was MLB. His decision was horrible

oneupper
05-15-2012, 10:45 AM
Seriously. On a message board. Suggesting someone is dishonest without any reason really isn't OK.

Besides this isn't just a message board. This is the ORG.

Its just my opinion but I'm kinda surprised there would be a strong argument suggesting it's kosher.



Again. There was no accusation or adamant statement. The possibility was simply raised.

Personally, I don't see it (Das being bribed), I'd give it a very low probability, not because the incentives aren't there, but because it would be difficult to pull off and cover up AND the sanctions for being found out would be far too great (lifetime baseball ban vs. 50 game suspension? Not worth the risk).

But the "reason" for suspecting is obviously there. For many of us, Das' decision stretched the "reasonable doubt" too far beyond reasonable, giving credence to a conspiracy theory that even implicated the honesty of others (without proof we could say). It wasn't rational for many of us and acts of irrationality deserve analysis. From all angles.

The issue merits some debate and discussion. Some "outliers" and long shots end up being right or true and even some conspiracy theories pan out.

And Jr's possible PED use shouldn't be off the table either. Personally, I'd give it a low probability, but it can't be ruled out given the context you present.

We obviously disagree, but I'll stand up for your right to disagree on this issue also. :D

Johnny Footstool
05-15-2012, 12:24 PM
You're entitled to believe whatever. But why is it kosher to openly question someone's reputation without any real reason?

Why? Because this is a discussion. Ideas can be based on hard evidence, or just intuition, but it's okay to express them.

Rest assured, if someone expresses an idea that is ill-conceived, that idea will rapidly get shot down.