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View Full Version : Poll: Does this team need tweaking?



Vottomatic
05-17-2012, 05:05 PM
Does this team need tweaking or will they pull it together eventually? Vote and then comment below.

fearofpopvol1
05-17-2012, 05:06 PM
there's no poll

WVRedsFan
05-17-2012, 05:15 PM
It's up now and I voted yes. The lack of a true cleanup hitter and left fielder (which could be one and the same) is killing this squad. Hopefully, moves will be made.

*BaseClogger*
05-17-2012, 05:34 PM
I think the haggling over the cleanup spot is overplayed. SLG isn't this team's problem, it is OBP. Put some guys on base in front of Votto and Bruce and will do wonders for the offense...

Kc61
05-17-2012, 05:48 PM
I agree with BaseClogger that the team's OBP is very low and a couple high OBP type guys, particularly against RHP, is the most obvious need.

I picked the Reds to win 86 games, I'm sticking with that right now.

They are a pretty good team, they have a very bright future IMO. For this year, with the pitching already improved, I'd like to see them put more pressure on the opposition with more baserunners.

REDREAD
05-17-2012, 05:59 PM
I think we'd all like to see another acquision, but since the question was "need",
I said no.

I am confident we will make the playoffs with the team as is. I would welcome a change though.

I will go one step further. I think we need a guy with a high batting average and high OBP. A guy with a high batting average with just average power could get a bunch of RBIs either in between or behind Bruce/Votto. Maybe Philips becomes that guy.

reds1869
05-17-2012, 06:15 PM
LF needs to be addressed for this team to make noise in the fall. Heisey is as good as it gets for a fourth outfielder but if the Reds try to ride him every day it will likely fail. Dealing for a power hitting outfielder would be ideal.

Brutus
05-17-2012, 06:30 PM
I voted no but only because I didn't like how it was worded. I don't think they *need* tweaking in order to win. I definitely think there is plenty of room for improvement though.

Rojo
05-17-2012, 06:36 PM
I think the haggling over the cleanup spot is overplayed. SLG isn't this team's problem, it is OBP. Put some guys on base in front of Votto and Bruce and will do wonders for the offense...

Yes. Both Cozart and Stubbs have been ok in the two hole but dreadful batting lead off.

Reds/Flyers Fan
05-17-2012, 06:39 PM
How did Walt vote twice in this poll? :D

RedsManRick
05-17-2012, 06:55 PM
I think the team as currently constructed looks like an 86 win team. That might be enough to grab the 2nd wild card, but I'd feel a lot better with another bat and a 3rd reliable starter.

*BaseClogger*
05-17-2012, 10:38 PM
I agree with BaseClogger that the team's OBP is very low and a couple high OBP type guys, particularly against RHP, is the most obvious need.

I picked the Reds to win 86 games, I'm sticking with that right now.

They are a pretty good team, they have a very bright future IMO. For this year, with the pitching already improved, I'd like to see them put more pressure on the opposition with more baserunners.

I just read through the "2012 Gonelong Prediction" thread, and noticed we both had the Reds with 86 wins. I don't know whether to :beerme: or :thumbdown:

TheNext44
05-17-2012, 10:42 PM
What is "this thing" that the Reds need to win?

The division? Wild Card? World Series? Ben Stein's money?

Kc61
05-17-2012, 11:32 PM
I just read through the "2012 Gonelong Prediction" thread, and noticed we both had the Reds with 86 wins. I don't know whether to :beerme: or :thumbdown:

I think 86 would be a positive year after 2011. Not great, but positive.

One thing about the Votto signing is that it gives the Reds more time to build. They don't have to worry about losing their best player in the next two seasons and taking a backward step.

Still, these pre-season predictions assume the current personnel. Nothing stopping Walt from making in season deals to get that prediction for 2012 above the 90 mark!

redsmetz
05-18-2012, 06:09 AM
I voted no but only because I didn't like how it was worded. I don't think they *need* tweaking in order to win. I definitely think there is plenty of room for improvement though.

I wasn't enamored with the wording either, hence my "no" vote. I completely agree that there's room for improvement, but it's not essential that something must be done.

DGullett35
05-18-2012, 07:05 AM
We need a LH bt off the bench with some more experience than Costanza. I also think we need a bat that can hit 4th in the lineup between Votto and Bruce. Preferebly a 3rd baseman other than Melvin Mora:)

puca
05-18-2012, 10:42 AM
The struggles against RH starting pitching can be somewhat addressed (IMO) by batting Votto/Bruce back-to-back. If you want to break them up against LH starters, I guess that's fine. Batting them back to back against righties will either minimize a RH's tendency to work around Votto or maximize the chances that you make them pay for doing it.

But I agree the Reds could surely use one or two hitters with high OBP in front of Votto/Bruce. If those hitters force the pitcher to work (throw lots of pitches) that would be a bonus.

Given this offense, another shut-down starter would be really nice. League average pitchers just aren't going to win many games unless this team starts scoring more runs.

steig
05-18-2012, 11:16 AM
What is "this thing" that the Reds need to win?

The division? Wild Card? World Series? Ben Stein's money?

THe team needs to go for the World Series and they need to add offense in order to accomplish this feat. Tweaking the team for anything else is not worth it.

Sea Ray
05-18-2012, 11:19 AM
This team is not equipped to go to the playoffs as it is right now. Add a LF and a set up man and I'll change my tune

mth123
05-18-2012, 10:44 PM
This team needs at least one, but better if two players who can provide 250 PAs the rest of the way from LF and 3B. There are just too many guys who all profie as the same low OBP, medium power, easily pitched too, breaking ball susceptible, RH bats. We need guys with more OBP, guys who hit well against RHP. Maybe guys with mega power vs RHP. Todd Frazier and Chris Heisey need to be prime role players populating ithe bench. A diversification of the personnel would become an upgrade to the personnel. Ludwick and probably Costanzo would be the guys to bump from the roster. Melvin Mora isn't the answer.

The lack of prospects at the upper levels may make it difficult to acquire anyone. The Reds need to force a few promotions to see if they can garner some interest in some of the marginal prospects at A+ and AA.

Kc61
05-18-2012, 10:53 PM
This team needs at least one, but better if two players who can provide 250 PAs the rest of the way from LF and 3B. There are just too many guys who all profie as the same low OBP, medium power, easily pitched too, breaking ball susceptible, RH bats. We need guys with more OBP, guys who hit well against RHP. Maybe guys with mega power vs RHP. Todd Frazier and Chris Heisey need to be prime role players populating ithe bench. A diversification of the personnel would become an upgrade to the personnel. Ludwick and probably Costanzo would be the guys to bump from the roster. Melvin Mora isn't the answer.



I didn't quote your second paragraph, not sure I agree about promoting prospects and all that.

But the first paragraph is absolutely on point. Very well said and exactly right.

OldXOhio
05-18-2012, 11:06 PM
June's right around the corner. So are some of the changes if any are going to happen.

Tony Cloninger
05-18-2012, 11:14 PM
An enema and an exorcism.

Vottomatic
05-19-2012, 04:08 AM
46 yes's, 7 no's. The fans have spoken.

Crumbley
05-19-2012, 09:34 AM
Sadly Bobby Abreu wasn't a member of the 2007 Cardinals.

MikeS21
05-19-2012, 10:40 AM
I voted no.

Last year this team was considered to be one of the top offensive teams in baseball. They were 10th in the major leagues for highest OPS. In 2011, the Reds were about 15 points over the league average for OPS. And this was achieved with the same controversial batting orders and questionable managerial decisions and all the other stuff we blame Dusty for.

However, today, they rank 23rd in OBS - some 28 points BELOW league average.

What has actually changed from last year to this year? A I see it, the main changes from last year's run machine team, and this year's sputtering machine are in 4 positions.

At C, Mesaroco has been swapped for Hernandez. While I MIGHT buy that Hernandez is better than Mesaroco AT THE MOMENT, no one in their right mind believes long term that Mesaroco won't far exceed Hernandez's offense. I'd rather have Mesaroco.

At SS, they have swapped Cozart for the tandem of Renteria and Janish. Has SS been upgraded?

At 3B, last year they had Rolen, and Cairo as your main guys, with Fransisco and Fraizer as occasional starters. This year, its been Rolen and Fraizer. Cairo has been on the DL, but he's back. With the exception of losing Fransisco, the position is the same. I have never been as enamored with Fransisco as some on here have been, and don't believe losing him is a huge loss. And all the calls for replacing Rolen with Fraizer seem to be quieting now that Fraizer is playing every day and his bat is not any better than Rolen's. I think 3B is pretty much a wash between 2011 and 2012.

In LF, the Reds had Heisey, and they basically replaced Johnny Gomes, Dave Sappelt, and Fred Lewis with Ryan Ludwick. Lewis and Sappelt had 325 PA's between them, but their actual contribution wasn't much - typically what you'd expect out of a 5th OF.

What can I say about Gomes? I remember the first half of last season when Gomes was blamed for everything - from being an out machine, to being the Anti-Christ ushering in the Apocalypse. Folks wanted him benched in favor of Heisey. Every stat in the world was called upon to prove why Gomes should be benched - including a few "extra" stats I'm almost positive were made up. Finally, Gomes was traded, and all was made right with the world.

But at the end of the day, it comes down to a choice: was Gomes a better option than Ludwick?

What else has changed?

mth123
05-19-2012, 03:02 PM
I voted no.

Last year this team was considered to be one of the top offensive teams in baseball. They were 10th in the major leagues for highest OPS. In 2011, the Reds were about 15 points over the league average for OPS. And this was achieved with the same controversial batting orders and questionable managerial decisions and all the other stuff we blame Dusty for.

However, today, they rank 23rd in OBS - some 28 points BELOW league average.

What has actually changed from last year to this year? A I see it, the main changes from last year's run machine team, and this year's sputtering machine are in 4 positions.

At C, Mesaroco has been swapped for Hernandez. While I MIGHT buy that Hernandez is better than Mesaroco AT THE MOMENT, no one in their right mind believes long term that Mesaroco won't far exceed Hernandez's offense. I'd rather have Mesaroco.

At SS, they have swapped Cozart for the tandem of Renteria and Janish. Has SS been upgraded?

At 3B, last year they had Rolen, and Cairo as your main guys, with Fransisco and Fraizer as occasional starters. This year, its been Rolen and Fraizer. Cairo has been on the DL, but he's back. With the exception of losing Fransisco, the position is the same. I have never been as enamored with Fransisco as some on here have been, and don't believe losing him is a huge loss. And all the calls for replacing Rolen with Fraizer seem to be quieting now that Fraizer is playing every day and his bat is not any better than Rolen's. I think 3B is pretty much a wash between 2011 and 2012.

In LF, the Reds had Heisey, and they basically replaced Johnny Gomes, Dave Sappelt, and Fred Lewis with Ryan Ludwick. Lewis and Sappelt had 325 PA's between them, but their actual contribution wasn't much - typically what you'd expect out of a 5th OF.

What can I say about Gomes? I remember the first half of last season when Gomes was blamed for everything - from being an out machine, to being the Anti-Christ ushering in the Apocalypse. Folks wanted him benched in favor of Heisey. Every stat in the world was called upon to prove why Gomes should be benched - including a few "extra" stats I'm almost positive were made up. Finally, Gomes was traded, and all was made right with the world.

But at the end of the day, it comes down to a choice: was Gomes a better option than Ludwick?

What else has changed?

1. Brandon Phillips had a career year. The drop-off needs to be made up.
2. Heisey too.
3. Rolen has declined further.
4. Stubbs continues in a downward spiral.

At the end of the day, there are at least 5 line-up spots (LF, CF, 3B. SS, 2B) that are all low OBP, medium power, RH bat. These guys are pretty much all susceptible to a breaking ball from a RHP. Add the pitcher and a very splitty Ryan Hanigan and that's just too many easy outs for the run of the mill RHP (which is who they'll be facing for the bulk of their games). Worse yet, when the starters like Rolen, Ludwick, Cozart, Phillips and Stubbs aren't in there, the replacements, Heisey, Frazier, Cairo pretty much have the same profile. This team needs to diversify. They don't need stars. They have stars with Votto, Bruce and Phillips. They don't need young studs. Cozart and Mesoraco fill that quota. They need decent major league baseball players who can do something different than the glut of low OBP, medium power RH Bats already on hand. They need an on base guy. They need a couple lefty platoon guys who can OPS over .750 against RHP. Guys like David Dejesus and Jack Hannahan would make a big difference. Fairly run of the mill and not overly costly in talent and money are the types they need. Move one or two of the RH glut and make room for a lefty or two. Make one a top of the order type.

An overhaul is definitely not required. A tweaking certainly is.

Crumbley
05-19-2012, 03:25 PM
Could really use Laynce Nix back.

mth123
05-19-2012, 03:55 PM
Could really use Laynce Nix back.

I was one of Nix critics, but you're right. He'd be a perfect fit.