PDA

View Full Version : Allowing pitchers to shag flies during BP



edabbs44
05-19-2012, 04:30 PM
Cueto was running around today a little, catching some fly balls and generally having a good time doing so. After watching Mariano do his thing in KC, does anyone take issue with this?

dougdirt
05-19-2012, 04:43 PM
It isn't an uncommon practice for pitchers to do this. I don't really have an issue with it.

RANDY IN INDY
05-19-2012, 05:00 PM
I don't have a problem with it, at all.

Crumbley
05-19-2012, 05:11 PM
They're professional athletes, a little light cardio shouldn't be a big deal.

westofyou
05-19-2012, 05:25 PM
Baseball players, they are baseball players... I'd have more of problem if they didn't want to do it

kaldaniels
05-19-2012, 06:09 PM
No problem at all with this. Cueto is more likely to get hurt running stadium steps as I read he does. What do you think edabbs?

mattfeet
05-19-2012, 06:10 PM
It isn't an uncommon practice for pitchers to do this. I don't really have an issue with it.

Joseph
05-19-2012, 06:16 PM
No issues at all. They are athletes, or at least baseball players. I don't want mine kept in a glass bubble.

Griffey012
05-19-2012, 07:04 PM
Not an issue. It is kind of like some people are afraid to fly because they think it is unsafe, which is because when a plane goes down it kills 100 or so people and gets all over then news. The thousands of daily car accidents that kills hundreds or thousands of people get little to no attention because it is one person there, two people there, etc.

My point is Rivera is the 1st person I have heard of tearing an ACL shagging flies. I am sure it has happened before, but it got a huge amount of media attention which leads to questioning if pitchers should do it. It is a freak accident, not a risky activity.

edabbs44
05-19-2012, 07:18 PM
No problem at all with this. Cueto is more likely to get hurt running stadium steps as I read he does. What do you think edabbs?

I think I am surprised more than anything as my guess would have been that teams would have overreacted and not let pitchers (especially top pitchers) do this in the short term.

I am also curious how this compares with this Aaron Boone and Rich Aurilia situations. Didn't the NYY start adding in contract language after he blew out his knee playing basketball?

edabbs44
05-19-2012, 07:23 PM
Not an issue. It is kind of like some people are afraid to fly because they think it is unsafe, which is because when a plane goes down it kills 100 or so people and gets all over then news. The thousands of daily car accidents that kills hundreds or thousands of people get little to no attention because it is one person there, two people there, etc.

My point is Rivera is the 1st person I have heard of tearing an ACL shagging flies. I am sure it has happened before, but it got a huge amount of media attention which leads to questioning if pitchers should do it. It is a freak accident, not a risky activity.

ACLs are one thing. There are numerous negative things that could happen and not many positives. If Votto went to Baker and said that he wanted to throw batting practice at 80% intensity, what do you think the reaction would be?

kaldaniels
05-19-2012, 07:36 PM
I think I am surprised more than anything as my guess would have been that teams would have overreacted and not let pitchers (especially top pitchers) do this in the short term.

I am also curious how this compares with this Aaron Boone and Rich Aurilia situations. Didn't the NYY start adding in contract language after he blew out his knee playing basketball?

What would you do though?

AtomicDumpling
05-19-2012, 07:43 PM
I think pitchers shagging flies is a good thing. Hundreds of pitchers shag flies every single day in baseball yet injuries have been exceedingly rare. It helps them get limber, improves flexibility, improves their feel for the ball off the bat, improves their glovework and helps keeps them in good baseball condition. Any light physical activity is good for an athlete but also carries a small risk of injury.

We have seen players get severe leg injuries playing with their kids, walking down the dugout steps, slipping on ice, in fielding drills, pickup basketball games, riding motorbikes and slipping in the shower. If you are moving you can blow out your knee. Athletes have to exercise and practice and freak injuries are bound to happen occasionally.

kaldaniels
05-19-2012, 07:48 PM
Shagging flys is the equivalent to a jog in the park (if that) so long as the player doesn't act like Jim Edmonds. Anyone disagree?

edabbs44
05-19-2012, 08:02 PM
What would you do though?

What would I do? No idea since I have zero context. I can tell you that Cueto was doing a hell of a lot more than any other pitcher out there. Chapman was like a statue and Cueto was not.

It's hard to approve of a player doing anything physical that isn't related to his job. Knowing the context would help. Is this the norm for pitchers? Cueto was much more noticeable than anyone else out shagging flies.

edabbs44
05-19-2012, 08:03 PM
Shagging flys is the equivalent to a jog in the park (if that) so long as the player doesn't act like Jim Edmonds. Anyone disagree?

Yes.

westofyou
05-19-2012, 08:06 PM
Maybe we can get big hamster ball for the pitchers to live in between starts?

edabbs44
05-19-2012, 08:42 PM
Maybe we can get big hamster ball for the pitchers to live in between starts?

How does this reconcile with what we are talking about?


The Yankees want their players to play baseball and nothing else. The standard Yankees contract prohibits participation in even the tamest activities, including bowling, bocce, table tennis, billiards, fishing, croquet and shuffleboard. More adventurous pursuits -- log-rolling, luge and steeplechase -- are also banned.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/27/sports/baseball-boone-s-injury-could-cost-him-his-contract.html

westofyou
05-19-2012, 08:50 PM
You want to cite off field activities as a reason to not allow pitchers in the outfield?

I think that's silly

edabbs44
05-19-2012, 08:55 PM
You want to cite off field activities as a reason to not allow pitchers in the outfield?

I think that's silly

I think it is short sighted to think that there is more risk on the bocce ball court than on the baseball field when you are doing something that has zero to do with your job.

Tony Cloninger
05-19-2012, 09:12 PM
Yes.

Mariano Rivera is 500 years old and part of the Ponce De Leon crew that was searching for the fountain of youth.

Griffey012
05-19-2012, 09:15 PM
ACLs are one thing. There are numerous negative things that could happen and not many positives. If Votto went to Baker and said that he wanted to throw batting practice at 80% intensity, what do you think the reaction would be?

That is an apples to oranges comparison. The probability of an injury throwing batting practice at 80% vs jogging and shagging fly balls is a lot different. Most pitchers are athletes as well. A lot of negative things could happen from a pitcher doing his routine off day workouts as well...should we stop those and only allow him to pitch on his allotted day?

edabbs44
05-19-2012, 09:24 PM
That is an apples to oranges comparison. The probability of an injury throwing batting practice at 80% vs jogging and shagging fly balls is a lot different. Most pitchers are athletes as well. A lot of negative things could happen from a pitcher doing his routine off day workouts as well...should we stop those and only allow him to pitch on his allotted day?

Routine off day work vs something that has nothing to do with your job as a pitcher. That's the difference.

KronoRed
05-19-2012, 09:32 PM
Let em shag fly balls, just tell them to stay away from the wall.

edabbs44
05-19-2012, 09:40 PM
Let em shag fly balls, just tell them to stay away from the wall.

I think that's my position, just tweaked. Ok to be out there but don't try and be a hero. If the ball is hit to you, catch it. If not, don't go for it.

westofyou
05-19-2012, 09:55 PM
I think it is short sighted to think that there is more risk on the bocce ball court than on the baseball field when you are doing something that has zero to do with your job.

Cue the hamster ball then.

Crumbley
05-19-2012, 09:56 PM
Routine off day work vs something that has nothing to do with your job as a pitcher. That's the difference.
Cardio has nothing to do with his job as a pitcher? I guess he could do something else but this isn't exactly stressful. I am woefully out of shape and was just out shagging flies the other night without any issue.

edabbs44
05-19-2012, 10:04 PM
Cue the hamster ball then.

Judging by certain standard contract terms, the hamster ball has been in effect for years.

edabbs44
05-19-2012, 10:05 PM
Cardio has nothing to do with his job as a pitcher? I guess he could do something else but this isn't exactly stressful. I am woefully out of shape and was just out shagging flies the other night without any issue.

No, it does. I think you misread my post.

westofyou
05-19-2012, 10:43 PM
Judging by certain standard contract terms, the hamster ball has been in effect for years.

That of course has not targeted "shagging flies" or any other in season "baseball activity" has it?

And if I'm correct you feel it should target these activities?

Johnny Sain didn't like to run his pitchers, I wonder how he'd weigh in on this?

edabbs44
05-19-2012, 10:48 PM
That of course has not targeted "shagging flies" or any other in season "baseball activity" has it?

And if I'm correct you feel it should target these activities?

Johnny Sain didn't like to run his pitchers, I wonder how he'd weigh in on this?

I don't think that it should be in the contract. But it doesn't have to be in the contract to make sense.

westofyou
05-19-2012, 10:50 PM
I don't think that it should be in the contract. But it doesn't have to be in the contract to make sense.

Gives me this vibe

http://c.o0bg.com/rf/image_371w/Boston/2011-2020/2012/03/22/BostonGlobe.com/Sports/Images/1970scar-2062.JPG

AtomicDumpling
05-19-2012, 11:24 PM
I wouldn't allow them to shag before the game, only afterwards.

westofyou
05-19-2012, 11:39 PM
No beaver shooting either

Big Klu
05-19-2012, 11:46 PM
Maybe we can get big hamster ball for the pitchers to live in between starts?

Bad idea. Ohio University has hamster ball races at Peden Stadium at the end of the third quarter, with students racing to win tuition, books, food coupons, etc. I saw one kid fall down and dislocate his shoulder.

westofyou
05-19-2012, 11:50 PM
Bad idea. Ohio University has hamster ball races at Peden Stadium at the end of the third quarter, with students racing to win tuition, books, food coupons, etc. I saw one kid fall down and dislocate his shoulder.

And no Youtube to document that!

RedsBaron
05-20-2012, 08:15 AM
Pitchers should slip in the shower and injure themselves, so we obviously should not allow pitchers to take showers. ;)
Anything a pitcher does has some risk of injury and it is easy to think of a lot of activities that are more hazardous than shagging flyballs before a game. Didn't Ryan Madson need Tommy John surgery after tossing batting practice this spring?

919191
05-20-2012, 09:16 AM
I think they should be put on a shag count. the first few years they should only be allowed a certain percentage of increase in shagging since to much of an increase correlates to increased shagging related injuries. Nolan Ryan will be an exception, though. He believes that excessive shagging will cause a strengthening of the shagging muscles.

mth123
05-20-2012, 09:21 AM
I think they should be put on a shag count. the first few years they should only be allowed a certain percentage of increase in shagging since to much of an increase correlates to increased shagging related injuries. Nolan Ryan will be an exception, though. He believes that excessive shagging will cause a strengthening of the shagging muscles.

Bravo.:thumbup:

Big Klu
05-20-2012, 11:07 AM
I think they should be put on a shag count. the first few years they should only be allowed a certain percentage of increase in shagging since to much of an increase correlates to increased shagging related injuries. Nolan Ryan will be an exception, though. He believes that excessive shagging will cause a strengthening of the shagging muscles.


YEAH, BABY!

http://images.wikia.com/austinpowers/images/2/21/Fook_mi_fook_yu_and_austin_powers.jpg

757690
05-20-2012, 11:49 AM
I think they should be put on a shag count. the first few years they should only be allowed a certain percentage of increase in shagging since to much of an increase correlates to increased shagging related injuries. Nolan Ryan will be an exception, though. He believes that excessive shagging will cause a strengthening of the shagging muscles.

I think Arroyo believes the same thing ;)

RedsfaninMT
05-20-2012, 12:57 PM
YEAH, BABY!

http://images.wikia.com/austinpowers/images/2/21/Fook_mi_fook_yu_and_austin_powers.jpg

My wife HATES baseball, but you're taking it exactly where she did. I was listening to MLBradion when this story broke and Girardi said "Mo loves shagging. He's actually pretty good at it." My wife then asked exactly how the manager could go on radio and make such a statement. Didn't every baseball player love shagging? I darned near wrecked the car with laughing so hard.