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View Full Version : Arredondo for closer?



Kc61
05-19-2012, 04:25 PM
I say Arredondo for closer.

reds44
05-19-2012, 04:25 PM
Chapman. This one isn't hard.

Vottomatic
05-19-2012, 04:27 PM
Chapman or Ondrusek.

Kc61
05-19-2012, 04:29 PM
I'd go with Jose. Chapman seems to need days off. Ondrusek isn't as overpowering. Marshall should pitch set up when mostly lefties are up.

Great four guys to have, I must say.

I don't have any great rationale on this, but Arredondo looks like a closer to me. He gets the strikeout. He can pitch consecutive days.

I'm delighted we have all four of them. I vote for Jose to close. I'm probably the only one.

757690
05-19-2012, 04:31 PM
If Chapman isn't going to start this season, he should close. Jocketty recently said that with current makeup of the team, Chapman will have to be in the pen longer than expected due the Masset Bray injuries. And if Chapman goes too far Into the season as a reliever, it makes it harder to convert him to a start for this year.

Still, if they want to keep out hope for Chapman to start tHis season, Arrendondo would be my first choice to replace Marshall.

757690
05-19-2012, 04:32 PM
Actually, a closer by committee seems like the best idea, no matter how much Dusty hates it.

Crumbley
05-19-2012, 04:33 PM
If Chapman is rarely going to pitch back to back days, I'd love to see him coming into a game in the 7th or 8th and let him close it out. Stretches him out and ices the game.

Kc61
05-19-2012, 04:34 PM
Actually, a closer by committee seems like the best idea, no matter how much Dusty hates it.

Dusty has kept a reliever in reserve when Marshall is pitching the ninth. That's the second time he lifted Marshall and had a good reliever to take over.

That's a positive.

Vottomatic
05-19-2012, 04:38 PM
I'd go with Jose. Chapman seems to need days off. Ondrusek isn't as overpowering. Marshall should pitch set up when mostly lefties are up.

Great four guys to have, I must say.

I don't have any great rationale on this, but Arredondo looks like a closer to me. He gets the strikeout. He can pitch consecutive days.

I'm delighted we have all four of them. I vote for Jose to close. I'm probably the only one.

Some good rationale there.

Chapman can't go back to back days which eliminates him.

The other thing about Arredondo is that for a RHer is he good at getting out lefties too.

And he doesn't seem bothered pitching consecutive days. You may have convinced me.

Kc61
05-19-2012, 04:41 PM
If Chapman is rarely going to pitch back to back days, I'd love to see him coming into a game in the 7th or 8th and let him close it out. Stretches him out and ices the game.


Excellent thought, totally correct.

Sometimes, like today, one inning was enough. Chappy has thrown a lot in NY and one was plenty.

But when he is mowing them down in the seventh or eighth, sometimes let him finish it up and go two innings, or two plus innings.

mth123
05-19-2012, 04:46 PM
I'm for Arredondo as well. My reasoning is different though. IMO, Marshall and Chapman are the best relievers on the roster. I want them avaiable to pitch in the 7th with the tie or lead run on second. I'm not for pigeonholing either into a role that forces the manager to call on a lesser arm with the game on the line. Arredondo is a decent arm. He can probably come in with a clean slate for one inning just fine. Its gets in some guys heads, but I'd give Jose a shot.

alexad
05-19-2012, 05:09 PM
Who says Chapman can't go back
To back days. The Reds dont start him because they need him in the pen. Marshall is a slow ball closer who can't handle the pressure. Are the Reds going to bypass Chapman again? Either start him on close him. They are wasting a very good player for what role he is currently serving on this team.

757690
05-19-2012, 05:20 PM
Dusty says it might be time for Chapman to close.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/05/19/chapman-to-close/


“He’s been so good in the eighth,” Baker said. “Like I said, you’ve got to graduate to that position. Who knows maybe graduation time is here? We’ve got to discuss it, talk about it. Matter of fact, we already talked to him about it.

_Sir_Charles_
05-19-2012, 05:31 PM
If they do it, I hope he does well. But as I said in the game thread, if they do it...it's going to be awfully hard to get him OUT of closing. Especially if he has success. And I for one want him STARTING. If he's forced into relieving due to the injuries, let him do multiple inning stints and limit the back-to-backs. And IMO, that's easier to do in a set-up role. I certainly don't see Dusty using a full-time multiple inning closer.

Matt700wlw
05-19-2012, 05:38 PM
I'd go with Jose. Chapman seems to need days off.

He'll get days off. It's not like this team goes on extended winning streaks...

icehole3
05-19-2012, 05:57 PM
just remember if they go on an extended win streak, you know Dusty will run Chapman out there every game if he has a chance to win

Griffey012
05-19-2012, 06:01 PM
This is the way I see it. Arredondo or Ondrusek as the main closer. Preferably Arredondo because his stuff is more "electric" and Ondrusek has been so good pitching out of jams and cleaning up for other guys. If one of those two close, Marshall is a dominating 7th, 8th, or closer, depending on the opponents lineup. Pitch him at the point in time the lefty heavy part of the lineup comes through. That leaves either Ondrusek or Arrendondo, whichever one doesn't close, and also Hoover to fill the rest of the middle innings. Hoover has earned a chance to throw some valuable 7th innings.

Best of all, there is no Chapman in that picture, put him in the rotation, Marshall is the big lefty out of the pen now. Hoover is the 4th man, if Hoover fails, then lets find some help through a trade.

redsfandan
05-19-2012, 06:09 PM
I'd let both Marshall and Arredondo get chances to close. Then the Reds would have their choice of a lefty or a righty to close. And it would be a chance to figure out what would be the best way to fill the role in 2013.

Maybe it's just me but I've never really thought of Ondrusek as a closer. I could be wrong though. Who knows.

I DON'T want Chapman closing because once he's closing games we might as well forget about them giving him a chance as a starter. He's much MUCH more valuable as a starter. Granted, this is the Reds so I wouldn't be surprised if they made Chapman the guy anyway.

PuffyPig
05-19-2012, 08:03 PM
Gee, I thought everyone wanted Ondrusek to close?

marcshoe
05-19-2012, 08:07 PM
Dusty is showing signs of being flexible, and I think that's what's needed now. I'd rather use the relievers situationally (hey! A new word!) If you don't want to call it a committee, that's fine. Don't give up on Marshall, but don't make him the only option.
'
I'm strangely confident that Dusty won't mess this one up.

paulrichjr
05-19-2012, 10:25 PM
I like Chapman in high pressure situations in the 7th and 8th like has has done. I think the Reds will suffer if Dusty refuses to use him until the 9th because he is the. "closer".

traderumor
05-19-2012, 10:29 PM
Gee, I thought everyone wanted Ondrusek to close?
And Frazier for cleanup. Forget flavor of the month, we're at flavor of the day. I think about the only safe one is if someone fills in for Votto and has a big day,
we probably won't see a thread suggesting that person replace him. Maybe...

Kc61
05-19-2012, 11:01 PM
I've read the posts on here and I still think Arredondo would fit the bill quite well. Today's news sounds like Dusty will go to Chapman. Marshall does have to be replaced as closer, it's obviously not his role, his ERA is 5, he's had three or more bad attempts to close already. No reason to force the issue with Marshall, he'll succeed in a different role.

Even if he doesn't close, though, Arredondo needs to be used more in high leverage situations. IMO Dusty uses him too much when the Reds are behind. Jose has terrific stuff, his control is better this year, he's a veteran and knows how to pitch.

Using Arredondo in more high leverage situations also will help save Ondrusek. Don't want a repeat of last season when Logan got burned out.

So even if not a closer, even if Dusty goes to Aroldis, consider this an Arredondo appreciation thread.

Superdude
05-19-2012, 11:15 PM
I'm sticking with Marshall here on the basis that it's an almost insurmountable task to be a bad pitcher with a K/BB ratio of 7 and an xFIP of 1.64. Small Sample Size.

Kc61
05-19-2012, 11:37 PM
One point folks have made on RedsZone that I find convincing is that having Chapman as a "floater" available on an as needed basis to be used in the toughest spot of the game is very enticing. That's kind of how he's been used so far. As closer, you don't have that flexibility.

Given the Reds' bullpen depth, I think they could afford to use Chapman in that way and have a different guy serve as closer. (Good to have that kind of depth, many teams don't.) That's one reason I like the Arredondo idea.

Probably doesn't matter, Reds seem poised to name Chappy closer based on some of the ink late today.

757690
05-19-2012, 11:49 PM
I'm sticking with Marshall here on the basis that it's an almost insurmountable task to be a bad pitcher with a K/BB ratio of 7 and an xFIP of 1.64. Small Sample Size.

Problem is that closing is made up of such small sample sizes, the Reds don't have time for the randomness or luck or whatever it is to even out.

mth123
05-20-2012, 01:53 AM
I like Chapman in high pressure situations in the 7th and 8th like has has done. I think the Reds will suffer if Dusty refuses to use him until the 9th because he is the. "closer".

:thumbup:

puca
05-20-2012, 09:36 AM
I like Chapman in high pressure situations in the 7th and 8th like has has done. I think the Reds will suffer if Dusty refuses to use him until the 9th because he is the. "closer".

I agree, and furthermore I said in the other thread that I want no part of Chapman pitching the 9th when the Reds have a 3-run lead just because it is a save situation.

PuffyPig
05-20-2012, 09:50 AM
Problem is that closing is made up of such small sample sizes, the Reds don't have time for the randomness or luck or whatever it is to even out.

Marshall's FIP and xFIP predicts that going forward he's our best bet.

He doesn't need luck to average out, he just needs average luck.

There is no reason to expect that Marshall will continue to experience back luck.

puca
05-20-2012, 09:54 AM
Of Marshall's 7 saves
3 times he entered the game in the 9th with a 3 run lead
3 times he entered the game in the 9th with a 2 run lead
1 time he entered the game in the 9th with a 1 run lead

Of the 2 saves that Marshall couldn't lock down
1 time he entered the 9th with a 3 run lead
1 time he entered the 9th with a 2 run lead

I haven't looked at Marshall's blown saves (I think he had at least one) and of course he has also pitched in some non-save situations which are not included here, but I think you will find that Chapman has been in many more high leverage situations than our closer. And I don't think that is atypical.

puca
05-20-2012, 09:54 AM
dp