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View Full Version : Offseason Trade Idea With Atlanta



Benihana
05-23-2012, 04:47 PM
Trade Drew Stubbs to Atlanta for Johnny Venters and Jair Jurrjens

Michael Bourn is a FA and will likely command a deal in the $70-$90 million range. Assuming that is too rich for Atlanta's blood, they'll need to replace him. Venters is a setup man with closers stuff, but Atlanta already has arguably the best closer in the game in Craig Krimbel, who is not going anywhere. Jurrjens has fallen out of favor and has been on the block for some time now- I look at him as more of a throw-in with a small chance he returns to form. Venters immediately becomes the Reds closer, allowing them to move Chapman into the rotation (Marshall still as setup man).

Stubbs will be arbitration eligible and doesn't really differentiate himself enough from Heisey to justify a major difference in salary. Reds could allow Heisey and Ryan LaMarre to battle it out for playing time in CF in 2013, at least until Billy Hamilton is ready to take over in 2014.

This move also gives them flexibility to trade one of Arroyo, Bailey or Leake in a package deal along with a prospect or two for a cleanup-hitting LF. On a related note, I wonder what it would take to pry away Jason Heyward...

Scrap Irony
05-23-2012, 04:52 PM
I wonder what it would take to pry away Jason Heyward...

Not as much as it would have taken last season, IMO.

I'd guess DiDi Gregorius, Heisey, and Cingrani might do the trick.

That's an awful lot to give up for him, but I would take the gamble of Heyward coming back pretty big in the middle of the Reds' potent lineup and away from home and the pressure that goes along with it.

Kc61
05-23-2012, 05:02 PM
I wouldn't make the Stubbs trade. For all his flaws, he plays an important role on the team both defensively and occasionally on offense. Heisey, Lamarre, these guys aren't ample replacements. CF is too important.

The Braves wouldn't make the proposed Heyward trade. If they want to trade him there will be a long line of takers. Gregorius, Heisey and Cingrani? In a heartbeat.

kaldaniels
05-23-2012, 05:09 PM
I wouldn't make the Stubbs trade. For all his flaws, he plays an important role on the team both defensively and occasionally on offense. Heisey, Lamarre, these guys aren't ample replacements. CF is too important.

The Braves wouldn't make the proposed Heyward trade. If they want to trade him there will be a long line of takers. Gregorius, Heisey and Cingrani? In a heartbeat.

That's a RZ trade offer if I ever saw one. Atlanta would laugh in our faces. Heyward on pace this year to be a 4.8 WAR player.

Benihana
05-23-2012, 05:21 PM
Not as much as it would have taken last season, IMO.

I'd guess DiDi Gregorius, Heisey, and Cingrani might do the trick.

That's an awful lot to give up for him, but I would take the gamble of Heyward coming back pretty big in the middle of the Reds' potent lineup and away from home and the pressure that goes along with it.

I'm not sure what interest Atlanta would have in Gregorius given that they have Taylor Pastornicky, but I'll play along:

If the Reds could somehow get Heyward and Venters for Gregorius, Cingrani, and Stubbs (upgraded from Heisey)- I'd do that in a nanosecond.

Tom Servo
05-23-2012, 05:25 PM
I don't see why Atlanta would want to move Venters for a guy like Stubbs. Stubbs for Jurrgens, they might do seeing as they were apparently close to do Heisey for Jurrgens with a few other pieces.

Benihana
05-23-2012, 05:37 PM
I don't see why Atlanta would want to move Venters for a guy like Stubbs. Stubbs for Jurrgens, they might do seeing as they were apparently close to do Heisey for Jurrgens with a few other pieces.

They were ready to trade "Jurjjens" along with other parts for Heisey IIRC. That was before Jurrjens turned into a complete disaster this year. Jair Jurrjens has virtually zero trade value and is in danger of being released.

The Reds could get much more than just Jurrjens for Stubbs. That's where Venters (or Heyward) enters the discussion, although admittedly it would take considerably more to get Heyward.

dougdirt
05-23-2012, 06:08 PM
Michael Bourn has never finished a season with a .740 OPS and you think he is about to get 70-90 million? What currency are you talking here? Any team that pays him even close to that is friggin nuts. A guy who has a game built on speed and heading into his 30's getting 70-90 million? God, I hope it is a team in our division that isn't us if you are right. That would be fantastic.

Vottomatic
05-23-2012, 06:53 PM
The last I read on Jurrjens he had lost a significant amount of velocity on his fastball and was getting hit pretty regularly. Didn't they send him down after he was getting clobbered?

jojo
05-23-2012, 07:02 PM
Michael Bourn has never finished a season with a .740 OPS and you think he is about to get 70-90 million? What currency are you talking here? Any team that pays him even close to that is friggin nuts. A guy who has a game built on speed and heading into his 30's getting 70-90 million? God, I hope it is a team in our division that isn't us if you are right. That would be fantastic.

I was thinking last night that Bourne looked kinda like Chone Figgins during his last several years with the Angels.

Benihana
05-23-2012, 07:53 PM
Michael Bourn has never finished a season with a .740 OPS and you think he is about to get 70-90 million? What currency are you talking here? Any team that pays him even close to that is friggin nuts. A guy who has a game built on speed and heading into his 30's getting 70-90 million? God, I hope it is a team in our division that isn't us if you are right. That would be fantastic.

MLBTR held a chat today, and one poster asked if Bourn's early season success was positioning him to make in the $65-85MM range. Ben Nicholson-Smith (from MLBTR) response was that was light, and he expected "Carl Crawford-like chatter to pickup."

Hardly written in stone, but that's what one "expert" had to say. In a world where Jayson Werth and Carl Crawford got what they did, I don't think it's unimaginable for some team to give Bourn at least $65M

mth123
05-23-2012, 08:29 PM
Not as much as it would have taken last season, IMO.

I'd guess DiDi Gregorius, Heisey, and Cingrani might do the trick.

That's an awful lot to give up for him, but I would take the gamble of Heyward coming back pretty big in the middle of the Reds' potent lineup and away from home and the pressure that goes along with it.

I don't see any way that they'd deal Heyward for that. Dime a dozen slick fielding no bat SS, 4th OF and a lefty set-up man. If that could get done, do it immediately. Heck, throw in a couple more.

dougdirt
05-23-2012, 11:26 PM
MLBTR held a chat today, and one poster asked if Bourn's early season success was positioning him to make in the $65-85MM range. Ben Nicholson-Smith (from MLBTR) response was that was light, and he expected "Carl Crawford-like chatter to pickup."

Hardly written in stone, but that's what one "expert" had to say. In a world where Jayson Werth and Carl Crawford got what they did, I don't think it's unimaginable for some team to give Bourn at least $65M

Jason Werth, the three years prior to his deal, hit .279/.376/.513 for a 132 OPS+. Carl Crawford the 6 years prior to his free agency hit .302/.347/.463 for a 115 OPS+. Michael Bourn has never broken a .740 OPS in a season. Would you pay Ryan Hanigan $65-85M? Would you love to be in a division with a team that would? Hanigan has been a better hitter in his career than Bourn has, by quite a bit. Doesn't play every day like Bourn does, so he has that going against him, but I think my point is pretty solid.... any team that pays him anything close to that is being incredibly stupid.

REDREAD
05-24-2012, 01:10 AM
I wouldn't make the Stubbs trade in the first post.

Jar Jar Jugrens is a mediocre pitcher at best (and has a lot of downside).. what would we do with him?

Trading Stubbs creates a hole in the lineup. Heisey and prospects just aren't going to cut it. After dealing with Patterson, etc in CF, I want to keep Stubbs around until they they get more of a "sure thing" to replace him.

757690
05-24-2012, 01:46 AM
Michael Bourn has never finished a season with a .740 OPS and you think he is about to get 70-90 million? What currency are you talking here? Any team that pays him even close to that is friggin nuts. A guy who has a game built on speed and heading into his 30's getting 70-90 million? God, I hope it is a team in our division that isn't us if you are right. That would be fantastic.

Speed is the new black. High OBP guys with speed might be the most desirable offensive need in today's low scoring environment. Not saying Bourn would be worth it, but I can see someoe overpaying for him.

mdccclxix
05-24-2012, 07:36 AM
Jurrjens would be a great waiver pickup. He's got to recover from whatever's ailing him before he regains his form. Like the rest of the has beens, ship him off to San Diego on a box car.

Benihana
06-01-2012, 10:01 AM
Michael Bourn has never finished a season with a .740 OPS and you think he is about to get 70-90 million? What currency are you talking here? Any team that pays him even close to that is friggin nuts. A guy who has a game built on speed and heading into his 30's getting 70-90 million? God, I hope it is a team in our division that isn't us if you are right. That would be fantastic.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/05/quick-hits-hamels-hernandez-bourn-jurrjens.html


David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (Twitter link) predicts Braves outfielder Michael Bourn will look for a five- or six-year contract with an average annual value of around $15MM when he hits free agency after this season. The Braves were known to be looking for young center field talent last winter since they weren't keen on paying Bourn such a large contract, though his strong performance thus far in 2012 could change the team's mind.

Game set match.

hebroncougar
06-01-2012, 10:34 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/05/quick-hits-hamels-hernandez-bourn-jurrjens.html



Game set match.

I bet he is looking for that. I'm looking for a teaching job that'll pay me over $150K too. Doesn't mean I'm getting it. Anybody that pays him that will have buyer's remorse moreso than the Red Sox have right now on Dice K and Crawford. It's would by lunacy.

Benihana
06-01-2012, 10:51 AM
I bet he is looking for that. I'm looking for a teaching job that'll pay me over $150K too. Doesn't mean I'm getting it. Anybody that pays him that will have buyer's remorse moreso than the Red Sox have right now on Dice K and Crawford. It's would by lunacy.

I don't disagree. I certainly wouldn't want my team to give him that much money. But I bet he gets at least $70MM from someone, especially if he continues to hit like he has this season.

Regardless, I think Atlanta would be interested in hearing ideas for CF this offseason.

bucksfan2
06-01-2012, 11:00 AM
Two guys are going to get paid this off season that I would stay far far away from Borne and Melky Cabrera. Both are having career type years in their last year before free agency.

Benihana
06-01-2012, 11:26 AM
Two guys are going to get paid this off season that I would stay far far away from Borne and Melky Cabrera. Both are having career type years in their last year before free agency.

Yep. Edwin Jackson might be setting himself up for a big payday as well.

RedlegJake
06-01-2012, 03:14 PM
It amazes me how many baseball execs can look at a guy's career, yet still pay him outrageous money after an obvious career year that he's unlikely to repeat. Whoever pays Bourne that much is going to rue the day.

hebroncougar
06-01-2012, 03:36 PM
It amazes me how many baseball execs can look at a guy's career, yet still pay him outrageous money after an obvious career year that he's unlikely to repeat. Whoever pays Bourne that much is going to rue the day.

I don't know...........this offseason I thought the worm turned a bit in regards to that (see Madson, Jackson, and the Yanks staying away from FA's). I think execs have gotten better with it. It will be interesting to see what guys like Bourne get.

camisadelgolf
06-01-2012, 03:47 PM
I thought the problem with the current team is the offense. Is trading Stubbs supposed to be addition by subtraction?

15fan
06-03-2012, 02:51 PM
Braves aren't going to deal Venters. He and Kimbrel give them the best back end of a bullpen they've had since I've been here (1995).

Jurrjens? Nothankyou.

And Heyward? He's Francouer 2.0. Pass.

Benihana
06-03-2012, 02:59 PM
Braves aren't going to deal Venters. He and Kimbrel give them the best back end of a bullpen they've had since I've been here (1995).

Jurrjens? Nothankyou.

And Heyward? He's Francouer 2.0. Pass.

Really? You are that bearish on Heyward? I'd certainly deal Stubbs and more for him. Then when Billy Hamilton arrives...

CF Hamilton
2B Phillips
1B Votto
LF Heyward
RF Bruce
3B Frazier
SS Cozart
C Mesoraco

Scrap Irony
06-03-2012, 03:28 PM
And Heyward? He's Francouer 2.0. Pass.

I'd love to have Heyward as a LF. Great glove, very good power, chance to turn it around a bit and be a perennial All Star. When all else is equal, take the guy with the highest upside. And Heyward's upside is monstrous.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 03:39 PM
I'd love to have Heyward as a LF. Great glove, very good power, chance to turn it around a bit and be a perennial All Star. When all else is equal, take the guy with the highest upside. And Heyward's upside is monstrous.

I agree. Now is the time to bite on him...BEFORE he turns it around. Because he will.

Unfortunately, I think the Braves know this. I highly doubt they deal him except for a kings ransom.

mth123
06-03-2012, 03:50 PM
Heyward .259/.362/.464 against RHP. He's a strength the majority of the time. I'd give a lot for that and let him sit against LHP while taking advantage of one of the Red's many lefty killers.

Heisey, Hamilton and Corcino for Heyward and Jurjjens. Sign me up if the Braves are nuts enough.

dougdirt
06-03-2012, 03:58 PM
And Heyward? He's Francouer 2.0. Pass.

Jeff Francouer was alergic to walks. Heyward, not so much.

camisadelgolf
06-03-2012, 04:08 PM
Heyward looks better at his age than Jay Bruce did. If he's allergic to getting on base, Giancarlo Stanton is allergic to hitting home runs.

Benihana
06-03-2012, 04:31 PM
Heyward .259/.362/.464 against RHP. He's a strength the majority of the time. I'd give a lot for that and let him sit against LHP while taking advantage of one of the Red's many lefty killers.

Heisey, Hamilton and Corcino for Heyward and Jurjjens. Sign me up if the Braves are nuts enough.

I'd prefer to deal Stubbs and hang onto Hamilton if possible. I have no issues moving Hamilton in the right deal, although I think Stubbs makes some sense for Atlanta if Bourn leaves (hence the original post in this thread).

We know what Stubbs is, and he's about to start getting more expensive as he is arbitration eligible. I'd happily deal Stubbs and any pitcher in the system (and then some) for that return.

mth123
06-03-2012, 04:43 PM
I'd prefer to deal Stubbs and hang onto Hamilton if possible. I have no issues moving Hamilton in the right deal, although I think Stubbs makes some sense for Atlanta if Bourn leaves (hence the original post in this thread).

We know what Stubbs is, and he's about to start getting more expensive as he is arbitration eligible. I'd happily deal Stubbs and any pitcher in the system (and then some) for that return.

I don't think the Braves would do it for Heisey, Hamilton and Corcino. I sure as heck don't think they'd do it subbing Stubbs for Hamilton. Perhaps subbing Stubbs for Heisey would work. Heck, I'd prefer to deal Stubbs to Heisey anyhow from the Reds perspective.