Baker on using Chapman

[lollipopcurve]

“We didn’t want Chappy to go that long and that many pitches (25), but that was the best matchup at the time,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said.

Says it all.

Dusty's in a contract year, and he's got a shiny new closer. Tell me I shouldn't worry.

[oneupper]

"Chappy?" Seriously? :lol:

[BearcatShane]

I'm about winning games. I think Chapman should be given plenty of opportunities for two inning saves to be honest with you. He's 24 years old. He can throw 25 pitches 3-4 times a week.

[BCubb2003]

I think he's just showing the flexibility we've always wanted to see in him.

And he's always been that way with the names: Leakey, Brucey, Ludwicky, Ondruseky ...

[757690]

I'm less worried about how many innings he goes per game as a closer and more about how many days he pitches a week.

[757690]

I think he's just showing the flexibility we've always wanted to see in him.

And he's always been that way with the names: Leakey, Brucey, Ludwicky, Ondruseky ...

... Heiseyey, Baileyey, Brayey...

[Brutus]

I'm not seeing the problem?

He said he isn't crazy about it but recognized it was the best move. Isn't that what we want?

[edabbs44]

I have no issues with his use so far.

[BCubb2003]

... Heiseyey, Baileyey, Brayey...

I think he calls Bailey "Homey" and Bray "The Braymeister" ...

[Degenerate39]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a 2-inning save.

[edabbs44]

I think he calls Bailey "Homey" and Bray "The Braymeister" ...

I thought Bray was "Big Daddy Bray".

[Vottomatic]

Well, so far, I'm okay with Bakey. He seems to have more urgency to make a change this year than in year's past. I used to see the wheels fall off and Bakey was playing with his toothpick on the steps of the dugout conceding the loss instead of doing something to stop it.

I like the new Bakey.

[Blitz Dorsey]

I absolutely LOVE how Dusty used The Missile today. The biggest moment of the game was when CarGo and Tulo came up in the 8th. Chapman blew Gonzalez away with a man on third and one out ... then got Tulo to pop up. Threat over.

Big deal he threw 25 pitches. That's one inning of work for a lot of closers. Coco used to rack up 25 pitches per inning when he was the closer. It's not like Dusty would have left Chapman out there for 45 pitches if he was struggling. Having Chapman go 1.2 innings today was definitely the right move.

[Tony Cloninger]

Now his flexibilty is a problem? Now he does something we all wish more managers would do....that is use their best arm in or when the high pressure situation is, even if it is early in the 8th.....but of course it's a contract year so there must be something to it.

I am worried too that Baker will think he has a LH Mike Marshall now and pitch him 2 innings every day. :runaway:

He has been using him basically every other day. Hardly even 2 days in a row.

[Big Klu]

Dusty also said he probably wouldn't use Chapman tomorrow, which I infer to mean that Sean Marshall and Logan Ondrusek will handle closing duties on Monday.

I like it. It's a very 80's way of using the pen.

[hebroncougar]

Dusty also said he probably wouldn't use Chapman tomorrow, which I infer to mean that Sean Marshall and Logan Ondrusek will handle closing duties on Monday.

I like it. It's a very 80's way of using the pen.

I would agree with this. I think it was a great move. Highest leverage late inning situation, use him.

[puca]

I absolutely LOVE how Dusty used The Missile today. The biggest moment of the game was when CarGo and Tulo came up in the 8th. Chapman blew Gonzalez away with a man on third and one out ... then got Tulo to pop up. Threat over.

Big deal he threw 25 pitches. That's one inning of work for a lot of closers. Coco used to rack up 25 pitches per inning when he was the closer. It's not like Dusty would have left Chapman out there for 45 pitches if he was struggling. Having Chapman go 1.2 innings today was definitely the right move.

This.

I was one of the biggest critic of moving Chapman to closer, but I have to admit so far Dusty has used him perfectly. I like the fact that he didn't use Chapman for the 9th inning 3-run saves. And then today, bringing him out in the 8th to face CarGo with the game on the line exceeded all my expectations.

[membengal]

thought Dusty nailed it today. Exactly the point at which Chapman should have been brougt in that game.

Next time around, maybe Arredondo could try an outing where he doesn't walk the universe.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I love the way Dusty used Chapman today and the last few times he's used him.

Figured I'd give him some kudos, since I've been one of his many critics over the years.

I really do like the way he's using the 'pen this year.

[PuffyPig]

thought Dusty nailed it today. Exactly the point at which Chapman should have been brougt in that game.

Next time around, maybe Arredondo could try an outing where he doesn't walk the universe.

He walked 1 guy, hardly the universe.....

[alloverjr]

He walked 1 guy, hardly the universe.....

I think the real point is Dusty didn't give him the chance. I'll echo some prior posts that I love the way he's handling the pen right now. Couldn't be more pleased.

[RedsManRick]

Not a huge fan of the quote, but give me our best reliever in the highest leverage situation. I just wish the whole save thing didn't matter.

[RedFanAlways1966]

He walked 1 guy, hardly the universe.....

Jose Arredondo had a bad week. He has still been effective this year (2.38 ERA, 27K-22.2IP). Last 4 appearances (May 21-27)... 3IP, 5BB, 3K. But only 1 hit and 1 ER. He has done his job and has the luxury of the most dominating pitcher in MLB behind him to help.

[Blitz Dorsey]

This thread is a major fail. We're 7 games over .500, in first place (1.5 games up) and peeps are still going to find things to whine about. Amazing.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Jose Arredondo had a bad week. He has still been effective this year (2.38 ERA, 27K-22.2IP). Last 4 appearances (May 21-27)... 3IP, 5BB, 3K. But only 1 hit and 1 ER. He has done his job and has the luxury of the most dominating pitcher in MLB behind him to help.

The problem about Arredondo is that they might pick him as the lead over Alicia Silverstone if they made Clueless II (if you know what I mean).

[Chip R]

I just wish the whole save thing didn't matter.

I don't think it matters much to the younger players - especially a guy like Chapman who is already getting paid and guys like Ondrusek and Arredondo aren't going to be paid what they are worth if they are the primary closer. I think it matters more to the veteran players who are looking for that next big contract. Take a guy like Madson, for instance. The end of last season he was looking for the next big contract. He (and Boros) looked at the Reds and saw that Dusty is a manager who has a primary closer who he will use in just about every save situation instead of closer by committee. That's how these guys get paid.

[AtomicDumpling]

I absolutely LOVE how Dusty used The Missile today. The biggest moment of the game was when CarGo and Tulo came up in the 8th. Chapman blew Gonzalez away with a man on third and one out ... then got Tulo to pop up. Threat over.

Big deal he threw 25 pitches. That's one inning of work for a lot of closers. Coco used to rack up 25 pitches per inning when he was the closer. It's not like Dusty would have left Chapman out there for 45 pitches if he was struggling. Having Chapman go 1.2 innings today was definitely the right move.

Agreed. Dusty did a good job of bringing in his best reliever to face the other team's best hitters. Pitch count is better than innings pitched for judging how much work a pitcher has gotten. I would prefer to see Chapman used for longer stints with more rest in between. Being used for 15 pitches every day is harder on the arm than being used for 30 pitches every other day in my opinion. I worry about Baker using the Missile too often more than I worry about Baker using the Missile too long.

[VR]

1st and 3rd with 1 one has any offense licking it's chops. Until they see Aroldis trotting in form the pen. I don't care if it's the 8th, 9th, or 7th for that matter. He's the biggest shut down pitcher in the bigs, and he's in a Reds uniform. That is really, really cool.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Agreed. Dusty did a good job of bringing in his best reliever to face the other team's best hitters. Pitch count is better than innings pitched for judging how much work a pitcher has gotten. I would prefer to see Chapman used for longer stints with more rest in between. Being used for 15 pitches every day is harder on the arm than being used for 30 pitches every other day in my opinion. I worry about Baker using the Missile too often more than I worry about Baker using the Missile too long.

Well said.

[Chip R]

I worry about Baker using the Missile too often more than I worry about Baker using the Missile too long.

That's a valid concern. But he's been very judicious in his use of him this week. He used him on Sunday but he hadn't pitched since Thursday. Now I don't know if he warmed up on Friday or Saturday (and that can be as tough on a pitcher as pitching in multiple consecutive games) but he didn't pitch in those games so he was fresh on Sunday.

In Whitey Herzog's second book he chastised Pete Rose for the way he used his relievers. He said, "He'd get (Rob) Murphy up in the 3rd; he'd warm him up in the 4th. Then he'd sit him down. He'd get Charlton up in the 5th. Sometimes I'd look down there and he'd have both lefthanders going at the same time....Then after he'd worked 'em out 3 or 4 times, Pete would put one in the ganer and be surprised he had no zip. 'He can't be tired,' he'd say. 'He ain't pitched in 3 days!' Somebody counted how many times he warmed Murphy up one year and it was over 200." Hopefully Dusty doesn't unnecessarily use Chapman.

[Phhhl]

Well said.

Didn't Aroldis have two days off before today? I share the concern, but give Dusty a break. Chapman should have been more than capable of today's workload considering he had the last two days off. This was unquestionably a very important ballgame heading into a roadtrip against divisional competition. I cannot complain with the handling of the bullpen today at all.

[Kc61]

My only criticism of Dusty on the bullpen usage this year -- and it isn't much -- is that perhaps he should try to use the backup guys, Lecure, Simon, and Hoover a tad more.

Arredondo and Ondrusek didn't look as sharp in some of their recent outings, perhaps they need a bit more rest.

This is a very minor quibble.

Funny thing is, Dusty seems to do BETTER without a pure, everyday closer. He seems to manage the pen better with more flexibility. His use of Chapman in the eighth today was a very good example and he wouldn't have tried it, I don't think, with Cordero in previous years since the roles were so fixed.

Overall, the bullpen has been the best unit on the team and has been handled well.

[membengal]

I think the real point is Dusty didn't give him the chance. I'll echo some prior posts that I love the way he's handling the pen right now. Couldn't be more pleased.

Thanks for backing me up. Cerrtain posters are awfully literal with thread sniping nowadays.

Arredondo continues to have control and command issues, and its hard to feel comfortable, to me anyway, when he is in the game and it is close. And yesterday he immediately got into trouble with the walk and then the poor defensive play. And the walk yesterday continued his command issues of late. That was indeed what I was getting at.

[lollipopcurve]

My only criticism of Dusty on the bullpen usage this year -- and it isn't much -- is that perhaps he should try to use the backup guys, Lecure, Simon, and Hoover a tad more.

Agreed.


Arredondo and Ondrusek didn't look as sharp in some of their recent outings, perhaps they need a bit more rest.

Use the other guys more, and presto.


Overall, the bullpen has been the best unit on the team and has been handled well.

What folks are missing, in general, is the question of whether the strategy is a sustainable one. If the season were over today, give Dusty the Bullpen Award. Long way to go.

Right now, Chapman is on pace to throw a lot of innings out of the pen, and he's the closer. Normally, closers are in the 60-80 inning range. He's on pace to throw 89. Folks might say, "OK that's great, he needs innings to be stretched out to start eventually." Not when he's being used as the closer, I'd say. I don't want him near 90 innings as the closer.

His velocity was down yesterday. Keep an eye on that.

[CesarGeronimo]

Agreed.



Use the other guys more, and presto.



What folks are missing, in general, is the question of whether the strategy is a sustainable one. If the season were over today, give Dusty the Bullpen Award. Long way to go.

Right now, Chapman is on pace to throw a lot of innings out of the pen, and he's the closer. Normally, closers are in the 60-80 inning range. He's on pace to throw 89. Folks might say, "OK that's great, he needs innings to be stretched out to start eventually." Not when he's being used as the closer, I'd say. I don't want him near 90 innings as the closer.

His velocity was down yesterday. Keep an eye on that.

The thing to avoid, of course, is a situation like last year when Ondrusek seemed completely worn out after pitching 43 innings in 44 appearances before the all-star break. He had a 1.67 era and opposing hitters had an ops of .595 against him during the first half. During the second half, he had a 6.87 era and opposing hitters had an ops of .839.

[Big Klu]

Thanks for backing me up. Cerrtain posters are awfully literal with thread sniping nowadays.

Arredondo continues to have control and command issues, and its hard to feel comfortable, to me anyway, when he is in the game and it is close. And yesterday he immediately got into trouble with the walk and then the poor defensive play. And the walk yesterday continued his command issues of late. That was indeed what I was getting at.

I have no statistical evidence to support this, but it seems that Arredondo does better when he's allowed to start the inning instead of coming in with runners on base.

[mth123]

I wanted Chapman in the 8th yesteday when Latos left, but if Arredondo makes the play on defense, the jam wouldn't have been as threatening. Two outs and a runner on first. Pitching wasn't his prime issue in the 8th inning. A brain fart on the run down was a big part of the problem.

[lollipopcurve]

The thing to avoid, of course, is a situation like last year when Ondrusek seemed completely worn out after pitching 43 innings in 44 appearances before the all-star break. He had a 1.67 era and opposing hitters had an ops of .595 against him during the first half. During the second half, he had a 6.87 era and opposing hitters had an ops of .839.

Exactamente. Also instructive may the fact that Masset is out now, after years of heavy use. (Maybe it's too much to ask for perfect health from key relievers, but it is a fact that Masset has been pushed hard in recent years, always up among the league leaders in games pitched.)
)
If I were seeing clear signs that Baker was managing the pen differently, I wouldn't be posting on the topic. But I don't see those signs. A few hopeful hints here and there, but until it happens on the field, I'll be concerned.

[westofyou]

Dusty also said he probably wouldn't use Chapman tomorrow, which I infer to mean that Sean Marshall and Logan Ondrusek will handle closing duties on Monday.

I like it. It's a very 80's way of using the pen.

This

Leverage an asset to get best results, the end game is winning is it not?

[edabbs44]

The thing to avoid, of course, is a situation like last year when Ondrusek seemed completely worn out after pitching 43 innings in 44 appearances before the all-star break. He had a 1.67 era and opposing hitters had an ops of .595 against him during the first half. During the second half, he had a 6.87 era and opposing hitters had an ops of .839.

Ondrusek also saw a large babip correction in the 2nd half which may have had more to do with the change in effectiveness.

[BCubb2003]

The thing to avoid, of course, is a situation like last year when Ondrusek seemed completely worn out after pitching 43 innings in 44 appearances before the all-star break. He had a 1.67 era and opposing hitters had an ops of .595 against him during the first half. During the second half, he had a 6.87 era and opposing hitters had an ops of .839.

This bugged me a lot last year. Ondrusek would come in, the announcers would talk about his great numbers and how tough he was, and then he wouldn't get the job done. It kept happening.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Not sure what Ondrusek has ever done to warrant such a reputation. He is a replacement level relief pitcher at best. He does seem to have good stuff, but his numbers are nothing special.

2011
6.02 K/9
4.11 BB/9
-.02 fWAR

2012
6.10 K/9
3.92 BB/9
0.0 fWAR

[The Voice of IH]

Thanks for backing me up. Cerrtain posters are awfully literal with thread sniping nowadays.

Arredondo continues to have control and command issues, and its hard to feel comfortable, to me anyway, when he is in the game and it is close. And yesterday he immediately got into trouble with the walk and then the poor defensive play. And the walk yesterday continued his command issues of late. That was indeed what I was getting at.

I disagree about Arredondo. The Saturday game against the Yankees, when Marshall got into the jam, I felt very comfortable seeing Arredondo come out of the pen. And he did a great job finishing the game.

Sunday, he did his job pretty well I thought. Sure, he could use some touching up on his defense (like holding a runner on), and maybe even his baseball know-how (when he gave up the out to try to get the lead runner) but in the big picture he should have gotten the second out rather easily.

I feel very comfortable with Arredondo on the mound.

As for Baker with Chapman, Dusty has been a straight baller so far.

[westofyou]

Arredanos last 4-5 appearances have produced the lion share of his walks and issues.

He neither instills confidence or impending doom (at least to me) at this juncture

But with his past I can see how each path must be considered

[RedlegJake]

Arredondo and Simon are similar in control issues and I think you have to keep running them out there and be ready to hook them at the first sign they don't have it. When they do they are dominating, though, so you can't ignore them.