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View Full Version : What do sabermetricians say about giving the take sign?



Blitz Dorsey
05-28-2012, 04:32 PM
I've noticed Dusty never gives the take sign. And I mean never. Not even to Costanzo when he has a 2-0 count against a wild pitcher, for example.

So, I was curious: What do sabermetricians say about occasionally giving the take sign and/or occasionally taking until you get a strike? Is this a lost art? Are MLB players too proud to be given the take sign? Would they feel disrespected? Do other MLB managers give the take sign?

I've been a diehard Reds fan since I was a little kid in the 70's and I've seen a lot of managers come and go. I figured all of them occasionally had their third base coach give the take sign. It's just something that I never gave much thought to until now. Dusty never gives the take sign. So, it made me wonder if the "take sign" even still exists in Major League Baseball and what sabermetricians think about it. I would have to think working the pitcher and getting more walks fits right in with the "Moneyball" philosophy.

dougdirt
05-28-2012, 06:30 PM
How do you know they aren't giving the take sign?

Blitz Dorsey
05-28-2012, 07:54 PM
How do you know they aren't giving the take sign?

Let's call it an educated guess.

traderumor
05-28-2012, 08:23 PM
I've noticed Dusty never gives the take sign. And I mean never. Not even to Costanzo when he has a 2-0 count against a wild pitcher, for example.

So, I was curious: What do sabermetricians say about occasionally giving the take sign and/or occasionally taking until you get a strike? Is this a lost art? Are MLB players too proud to be given the take sign? Would they feel disrespected? Do other MLB managers give the take sign?

I've been a diehard Reds fan since I was a little kid in the 70's and I've seen a lot of managers come and go. I figured all of them occasionally had their third base coach give the take sign. It's just something that I never gave much thought to until now. Dusty never gives the take sign. So, it made me wonder if the "take sign" even still exists in Major League Baseball and what sabermetricians think about it. I would have to think working the pitcher and getting more walks fits right in with the "Moneyball" philosophy.I don't think coaches give the take sign on 2-0 outside of Little League...or in Dan O'Brien's "development" strategy.

westofyou
05-28-2012, 08:48 PM
I don't think coaches give the take sign on 2-0 outside of Little League...or in Dan O'Brien's "development" strategy.

Exactly

However back in the late 19th century it was very common to take 3-1 pitches, and even swinging could cause folks to question you baseball know how

Being as this was common place in this era Clark Griffith would often throw 3 wide ones and then groove 2 quick strikes, leaving the batter with essentially a 1 pitch AB

Eventually as a result players ( most often attributed to the 1890s Os) hitters began hacking at 3-0 pitches

jojo
05-28-2012, 08:50 PM
In Seattle, if you're taking pitches, you're not trying.