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corkedbat
05-29-2012, 11:34 PM
Ryan signed with Cincy last winter hoping to parlay another strong season . Because of the syrgeryinto a LTC. Sadly, as we now know, things didn't work out that way. Because of the surgery, the market for him probably won't be as strong as he hoped. The Reds won't get any draft picks if he walks after this season.

If reports on his recovery are strong, would you want to a) offer him another one year deal? 2) offer him a discounted two-year deal (plus option) with the first one mostly incentive-driven? or 3) let him walk and go another direction for closer?

Personally, I'd try to keep around for at least one more season and finally move Chapman to the rotation.

Superdude
05-30-2012, 12:11 AM
Maybe pick him up on the cheap and see where it goes. I guess that fits under option 2, but I wouldn't invest anything significant and definitely wouldn't count on him coming back as a viable closing option.

bellhead
05-30-2012, 12:17 AM
2 year 8 million deal plus a club option for 6 million in the 3rd year with a million buyout by the club.

He is likely only getting a 1 to 2 million next year. This way he has a guaranteed $8 million for 2 years.

WVRedsFan
05-30-2012, 01:10 AM
Maybe pick him up on the cheap and see where it goes. I guess that fits under option 2, but I wouldn't invest anything significant and definitely wouldn't count on him coming back as a viable closing option.
This.

bellhead
05-30-2012, 08:57 AM
Agreed,

Let him come back next year as the 2nd, 3rd, man in the pen, get strong again, and then we'd have him as a closer for 2 years on the cheap...

mattfeet
05-30-2012, 08:59 AM
2yr $10MM deal
1yr $8MM club option

It'll take a decent deal to keep him around. Even with coming back from TJ a lot of people still underestimate what it takes to "make a deal". I'd be very surprised if he signs anywhere for less than that.

Benihana
05-30-2012, 11:55 AM
I'd be careful committing big money to a closer coming off TJ. Look at what happened to guys like BJ Ryan and Eric Gagne.

I'd give him a strong incentive-based deal (tie it directly to # of saves), and hope he feels like he "owes" it to the Reds to take that over guaranteed money, after getting $8MM to not play in a single game. If he gets eight-figures guaranteed, I'm happy to let another team take that kind of risk and see what Marshall, Arredondo, or even Simon can do in the role.

hebroncougar
05-30-2012, 01:01 PM
I'm not sure I'd bite on that. With the best pen in baseball, I think I look to spend some money on LF for next year. I let him rehab with another club.

Big Klu
06-01-2012, 10:49 AM
I'd be careful committing big money to a closer coming off TJ. Look at what happened to guys like BJ Ryan and Eric Gagne.

I'd give him a strong incentive-based deal (tie it directly to # of saves), and hope he feels like he "owes" it to the Reds to take that over guaranteed money, after getting $8MM to not play in a single game. If he gets eight-figures guaranteed, I'm happy to let another team take that kind of risk and see what Marshall, Arredondo, or even Simon can do in the role.

I don't like that incentive, because then the Reds would be obligated to use him in every save situation, or else Boros would be griping nonstop about how the Reds are unfairly taking money out of his client's pocket. I prefer the flexibility of the current pen, with one primary (but not exclusive) closer, and two or three other guys capable of occasionally handling the job.

DGullett35
06-01-2012, 10:54 AM
I agree with your statement completely Big Klu. However I wouldn't mind bringing him back next year based soley on my expectation that Chapman will be in the rotation.

RedlegJake
06-01-2012, 04:21 PM
Depending on the pay I would certainly like to see him return. If we're talking a big contract, though, or a multi year deal let someone else do it. Of course there are still a lot of dominoes to fall before I can make a blanket statement like that. A deadline trade of a couple of relievers might change the situation a bit regarding next years staff. Still, Villareal and Joseph are about ready for prime time, Bray and Masset will be back by then hopefully, so there is some depth. I can almost bet the Reds trade at least one reliever before the deadline. The need for at least a quality bench hitter is going to make a deal happen and that is the obvious strength and depth.

oneupper
06-01-2012, 04:34 PM
Any chance he sees some action, rehab or otherwise, this year? That would help assess how he could contribute in 2013.

wheels
06-02-2012, 05:28 PM
I honestly don't think he's ever going to be close to what he was.

Let him walk. Find another guy (not named Chapman) that can get three outs in one inning, and get bona ride left fielder.

Vottomatic
06-02-2012, 07:15 PM
The thing is.......you see guys like Arredondo and Wainwright pick right up where they left off after coming back from surgery. Why can't Madson? And some guys come back throwing harder.

Tom Servo
06-02-2012, 09:07 PM
The thing is.......you see guys like Arredondo and Wainwright pick right up where they left off after coming back from surgery.
Uh...did you see Wainwright earlier this year? And Arrendondo last year? They're not the greatest example of your point. It does take some time.

Vottomatic
06-02-2012, 10:01 PM
Uh...did you see Wainwright earlier this year? And Arrendondo last year? They're not the greatest example of your point. It does take some time.

I believe Wainwright pitched a 9 inning shutout his last outing or the outing before.

Arredondo was pretty solid last season.

Not sure what you're talking about.

Volquez came back throwing 95-97 mph. He always struggled with command.

fearofpopvol1
07-06-2012, 12:41 AM
Madson was a prized free-agent acquisition in the winter, when he signed a one-year, $8.5 million contract with an $11 million mutual option for 2013. The option is unlikely to get picked up, and he would get a $2.5 million buyout. But Madson would like to return to Cincinnati next year.

"I'm waiting for this thing to crank back up. I'd love to be back here," Madson said. "I don't see any reason not to. When I left Spring Training, we had some good talks. Hopefully that's still in place."

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120705&content_id=34545666&notebook_id=34569534&vkey=notebook_cin&c_id=cin

Does Madson want to return because of the very friendly player option? Or would he take less to stay? What would you do?

kaldaniels
07-06-2012, 12:43 AM
Wrong thread.

Tom Servo
07-06-2012, 12:45 AM
I'd love to bring him back as our closer for 2013.

reds44
07-06-2012, 12:46 AM
We're going to need a closer next year if Chapman is going to start.

DGullett35
07-10-2012, 07:00 PM
I read an article (I forget off the top of my head where it came from) that interviewed Madson and he was quoted as saying that he and Walt talked about him coming back next year. He said the talks were promising. Also he said that he wants to come back to Cincinnati. A 1 year deal with a team option for a 2nd sounds good to me. I just hope he comes back like Joe Nathan did. Seems like its harder for a closer to come back from Tommy John and be good than it is a starter. Seems kind of odd if you ask me.

The Operator
07-10-2012, 07:23 PM
Seems like its harder for a closer to come back from Tommy John and be good than it is a starter. Seems kind of odd if you ask me.Starters get a consistent workload with rest in between.

A closer usually pitches one inning at a time and sometimes can go days and days without pitching. That makes it very hard to work through command issues.

Raisor
07-10-2012, 08:49 PM
We're going to need a closer next year if Chapman is going to start.

and if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.

klw
07-10-2012, 09:09 PM
I read an article (I forget off the top of my head where it came from) that interviewed Madson and he was quoted as saying that he and Walt talked about him coming back next year. He said the talks were promising. Also he said that he wants to come back to Cincinnati. A 1 year deal with a team option for a 2nd sounds good to me. I just hope he comes back like Joe Nathan did. Seems like its harder for a closer to come back from Tommy John and be good than it is a starter. Seems kind of odd if you ask me.

do you mean the article linked about 3 posts above yours?

DGullett35
07-10-2012, 09:39 PM
do you mean the article linked about 3 posts above yours?

Yes it was that article. I had it in an e-mail attachment though. I feel [dumb] now. I should have read more of the thread. My bad.

Blitz Dorsey
07-11-2012, 12:59 AM
Chapman will end up being the Reds' long-term closer and Madson will go elsewhere, IMO.

Has everyone noticed that no one in the Reds' rotation has missed a start this season? You know how many of those guys are free agents after this year? Zero. So, what makes anyone think Chapman will actually be a starter next year? They said he'd be a starter this year. It's obvious IMO he'll be a closer again next year. For those that disagree, which current Reds starter won't be back? Cueto? Latos? Arroyo? Leake? Bailey? (Exactly.)

kaldaniels
07-11-2012, 01:11 AM
Chapman will end up being the Reds' long-term closer and Madson will go elsewhere, IMO.

Has everyone noticed that no one in the Reds' rotation has missed a start this season? You know how many of those guys are free agents after this year? Zero. So, what makes anyone think Chapman will actually be a starter next year? They said he'd be a starter this year. It's obvious IMO he'll be a closer again next year. For those that disagree, which current Reds starter won't be back? Cueto? Latos? Arroyo? Leake? Bailey? (Exactly.)

I'll be straight up, I could do without the know-it-all-ness of the final word of your post.

That said, I am of the opinion that Latos and Cueto are keepers. Arroyo could be dumped if another team was desparate. Leake and Bailey are subject to be traded.

I'm not saying that is what will happen, but you seem to be of the opinion that it is a lead pipe lock that the same 5 guys will compose next season's rotation. Possible? Yes. Absolutely? No.

savafan
07-11-2012, 02:50 PM
Everybody and their mother seems to forget that Arroyo is a 10 and 5 player, and can't be traded without his permission.

kaldaniels
07-11-2012, 02:59 PM
Everybody and their mother seems to forget that Arroyo is a 10 and 5 player, and can't be traded without his permission.

I know I haven't forgot. There was recent speculation on here that he would accept a deal to New York. As for my mom, I can't speak for her.

fearofpopvol1
07-11-2012, 03:26 PM
Even though it would be awesome if the Reds sold high on Arroyo (who has pitched quite well this year), they won't. And I'm not even sure they can. They need the pitching and it's not like they can just slot Chapman into the rotation. I guess they could try to put Simon or LeCure in the 5 spot, but I'm not sure that would work out all that well. Too bad we don't have Travis Wood anymore. He would've been a decent 5th starter.

CySeymour
07-12-2012, 01:51 PM
Chapman will end up being the Reds' long-term closer and Madson will go elsewhere, IMO.

Has everyone noticed that no one in the Reds' rotation has missed a start this season? You know how many of those guys are free agents after this year? Zero. So, what makes anyone think Chapman will actually be a starter next year? They said he'd be a starter this year. It's obvious IMO he'll be a closer again next year. For those that disagree, which current Reds starter won't be back? Cueto? Latos? Arroyo? Leake? Bailey? (Exactly.)

Cueto and Latos are here to stay, for obvious reasons. But one of the remaining 3 could be made available in the offseason to address offensive needs, hence opening up a spot for Chapman.