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mace
05-31-2012, 09:44 AM
Riddle me this, somebody. Apparently the organization holds David Bell in high regard, having promoted him to Louisville this year to supplant the very successful Rick Sweet. And maybe with good reason, for all I know. But the fact is, every club he has managed has been downright dreadful. Not just a little bad. Bad in the extreme. (OK, one year he was only 65-74.) With the Bats now 17-37 on the season, his 4-year record stands at 193-276.

I realize that that is a very circumstantial thing, and maybe he has done as well as anyone could have. Maybe he has prioritized development, per the wishes of the organization. But until we get a good explanation, all we know is that his teams chronically reek. And yet we hear faint rumblings that he is being groomed as a future manager of the Reds. It doesn't compute.

Anyone?

dougdirt
05-31-2012, 09:49 AM
He hasn't had much talent. I will give him that.

CySeymour
05-31-2012, 09:54 AM
He hasn't had much talent. I will give him that.

Doug you follow these things as closely as anyone. What is your opinion on Bell as a manager?

dougdirt
05-31-2012, 09:59 AM
Doug you follow these things as closely as anyone. What is your opinion on Bell as a manager?

Without watching him every day and without knowing what the organization wants him to do with certain guys in certain situations, I can't honestly give an opinion.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-31-2012, 09:59 AM
That Louisville team is pretty awful, but that's not on the manager. Most (if not all) of their good players were traded this off-season or promoted to the big club.

mace
05-31-2012, 10:13 AM
I'll also give him this: He contributed to a book I read by his dad (Buddy) called Smart Baseball, and I liked their insights on the subtle things that make winners. Based on that, I'd think it feasible that he would make a good manager. At some point, though, you'd like to see some results to verify that impression.

dougdirt
05-31-2012, 11:52 AM
I'll also give him this: He contributed to a book I read by his dad (Buddy) called Smart Baseball, and I liked their insights on the subtle things that make winners. Based on that, I'd think it feasible that he would make a good manager. At some point, though, you'd like to see some results to verify that impression.

There is only so much you can do with a pig and lipstick....

RedlegJake
05-31-2012, 02:23 PM
I agree with Doug - I want to see what he can do with a solid Louisville roster that should compete well before passing judgement. The Bats this year are pretty much where their roster dictates they should be.

mace
05-31-2012, 03:25 PM
It's not so much a matter of passing judgment. As I said, I'm certainly willing to give him the benefit of being saddled with bad rosters. But that's not the answer to "why does the organization hold him in high regard?"

I'm not saying he's a terrible manager. I'm saying he has a terrible record, and that's about all we know of him. So . . . what does the organization see that we don't?

cinreds21
05-31-2012, 03:31 PM
How he handles his players. I have watched DB for three years and I never heard one bad thing about him from his players when I always heard something bad about another manager. David cares about his player and puts them first. Win/loss record does not show what he does with his players and how they respond to him. I don't if that will help Mace, but that is some of the reasons why some say he's next in line.

mace
05-31-2012, 03:52 PM
That does help, 21. I might disagree with one point, however: I think the players' response to a manager can show up in wins and losses. Of course, that's a very difficult thing to gauge--especially when the roster is lacking in talent.

Good report. Thanks.

texasdave
05-31-2012, 04:00 PM
I have no idea whether David Bell is a good manager or not. But it seems to me if he has this special rapport with the players and they respond to it, then there should be some sort of discernible increase in their performance level. If not, what is the point? How many players on this Bats' team are showing some sort of improvement in their play in 2012? How many would you say are underperforming? Isn't that the true mark of a good manager. That he gets his players to play to the closest of their abilities? I understand you can't take horrible talent and expect to turn them into All-Stars. But I don't think they are playing up to their abilities in Louisville.
Maybe Doug could take a quick glance at the roster and judge players and how they are performing?

cinreds21
05-31-2012, 07:14 PM
It's not like they aren't trying. Everyone is just under performing or just not good...

TOBTTReds
05-31-2012, 10:38 PM
without knowing what the organization wants him to do with certain guys in certain situations

This is the bottom line. Unless you work in the Reds PD department, you have very little idea of how good a manager he is, and even they may not know.

Matt Walbeck got fired after leading his team to the Eastern League championship in AA and the best record in Altoona.

Winning means something, don't get me wrong, but losing means almost nothing in the minors.

texasdave
06-01-2012, 05:17 AM
Would it be safe to say that by the time players get to AAA that there is more emphasis on player production than player development?

muddie
06-01-2012, 06:10 AM
Matt Walbeck got fired after leading his team to the Eastern League championship in AA and the best record in Altoona.

True, a statement at the time from inside, or close to, the organization was,


The Pirates apparently had issues with Walbeck in terms of his communications with staff and players. That was the No. 1 influencing factor here. No specific examples were given, but itís always been very important to this management team to have cohesion in the area of instruction and development, so that prospects can progress steadily through the system without having to adjust to new styles or terminology. The team feels it can do better in that regard, so it made the move.

Walbeck was fired last year by the Low A Rome Braves for reasons that I don't believe were ever fully transparent. His team was in last place with one of the worst records in all of minor league baseball at the time of his firing. Apparently, Walbeck has some issues beyond just winning or losing on the field.

Edd Roush
06-01-2012, 10:40 AM
Does anyone who follows Louisville closely have any comments on line-up construction?

This is my biggest gripe with Dusty and I don't know if David would be any better with this. I know he has gotten some props in the past for understanding advanced baseball metrics and even using them in game settings, but I was just wondering what our resident Louisville insiders thought, especially in regards to line-up construction.

As for the point being discussed regarding his W-L record, I echo others statements regarding putting a lipstick on a pig.

dougdirt
06-01-2012, 12:35 PM
Does anyone who follows Louisville closely have any comments on line-up construction?

This is my biggest gripe with Dusty and I don't know if David would be any better with this. I know he has gotten some props in the past for understanding advanced baseball metrics and even using them in game settings, but I was just wondering what our resident Louisville insiders thought, especially in regards to line-up construction.

As for the point being discussed regarding his W-L record, I echo others statements regarding putting a lipstick on a pig.

Some guys are 'required' by the Reds to bat in certain spots. That is why it is darn near impossible to say much one way or the other about how good/bad a manager is.

cinreds21
06-01-2012, 12:40 PM
Yeah, it's not like he can put them where ever he wants.