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membengal
06-02-2012, 05:15 PM
Sigh.

Why, WHY, why, other than you still hate your most loyal customers, do you continue to so compartmentalize the Fox Game of the Week window that out-of-market fans cannot see their favorite teams on Saturdays? It makes no sense. None.

But on behalf of all of us out of market Reds fans on 3 weeks in a row of not being able to see the team on Saturdays, thanks for nothing. From 7:00 - 10:00 tonight, I can only see, in my area, Tigers/Yankees. I will, instead, watch the NBA. So, well done!

I hate you all.

RedsManRick
06-02-2012, 05:17 PM
Amen.

MLB is actively preventing me from watching their product on a Saturday. Nice thinking, guys.

membengal
06-02-2012, 05:22 PM
Amen.

MLB is actively preventing me from watching their product on a Saturday. Nice thinking, guys.

It really does defy any logic. It is absurd wrapped up in a big bag of wtf.

If they are going to insist on a "Game of the Week"....pick ONE game, make it the "Game of the Week" in one window, and leave everything else alone. Good grief.

REDSEER
06-02-2012, 05:47 PM
It really is ridiculous.

Imagine the NFL having 4 Monday night football games, all at the same time, all on the same channel, with most of the country relegated to Redskins/Cowboys. Oh, big Packers fan that has moved down to Florida? Sorry, you get to miss Packers/Vikings because the Cowboys are more important. Sad thing is, that would NEVER happen because the NFL seems to have some business sense.

That's what this is like. Completely absurd.

BCubb2003
06-02-2012, 05:57 PM
cc: Fox Sports.

membengal
06-02-2012, 06:00 PM
Fox does what baseball lets them. Its ultimately up to MLB that this happens.

757690
06-02-2012, 07:07 PM
I would have no problem with this if they didn't charge so much for the MLB package on MLB.com or Directv. It's all about money, and they can't have it both ways, charging so much for the package and charging Fox for exclusivity on Saturdays.

Reds Fanatic
06-02-2012, 07:30 PM
What is ridiculous is MLB allowed Fox to have this exclusive contract without making their backup games available on Extra Innings or MLB.TV. MLB is the only major sports that shuts games out of their TV package like this without making them avaiable for those that pay for the games.

As part of the next contract MLB should make it a condition that backup games be avaialable but they will get more money and let Fox get away with it again.

RichRed
06-02-2012, 07:35 PM
Sigh.

Why, WHY, why, other than you still hate your most loyal customers, do you continue to so compartmentalize the Fox Game of the Week window that out-of-market fans cannot see their favorite teams on Saturdays? It makes no sense. None.

But on behalf of all of us out of market Reds fans on 3 weeks in a row of not being able to see the team on Saturdays, thanks for nothing. From 7:00 - 10:00 tonight, I can only see, in my area, Tigers/Yankees. I will, instead, watch the NBA. So, well done!

I hate you all.

Word. I remember reading something about how even Selig doesn't understand the blackout rules. Well that makes me feel better. It's beyond absurd.

membengal
06-02-2012, 08:07 PM
Good news! Yanks/Tigers were in a rain delay, so I got to see...

Cubs/Giants!

Yay me!

Sigh. Again.

RichRed
06-02-2012, 09:03 PM
Congrats, MLB, this is the first time I've watched more than 5 minutes of an NBA game all season.

Vottomatic
06-02-2012, 09:08 PM
The game is on Channel 3 on Time Warner Cable. Not sure what the problem is?

membengal
06-02-2012, 09:09 PM
We don't live in Lebanon...but thanks for your input!

Vottomatic
06-02-2012, 09:11 PM
We don't live in Lebanon...but thanks for your input!

Got it. Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't look at your locations.

traderumor
06-02-2012, 11:42 PM
And the stupidest thing about the blackout rules is that the premise of their existence has been proven as a myth. The coverage of nearly every game has poured money into the game, attendance is such that 3M is now the standard, and people do not stay home if the game is on TV. How slow witted can these decision makers be than to continue this charade?

Its also ridiculous that you can only watch the game on cable TV if you are in the local TV market. Another myth. Open the faucet and they'll raise even more advertising dollars. Let the fans watch it on whichever device they want.

Matt700wlw
06-03-2012, 01:07 AM
Maybe congress should get involved.

WebScorpion
06-03-2012, 01:27 PM
It was Yankees/Tigers here on the west coast too.

I suppose if I were in Bangkok, Thailand the Fox game would be Yankees vs. the team they're playing today. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-angry037.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

The Voice of IH
06-03-2012, 01:52 PM
Can not agree more guys. I hate how I can not watch any game on MLB.TV at that time either. I pay them $120 a year for every game besides those on Saturdays, it makes no sense.

reds1869
06-03-2012, 02:03 PM
Not being able to watch other games on mlb.tv during the Saturday national game window is so silly. MLB leadership does their best to kill fan interest.

cumberlandreds
06-04-2012, 08:20 AM
Totally agree with the OP. Just absurd that you can't at least watch the game via the Extra Inning package. FOX should just feature one game and maybe have a back up game for rain outs. Not half the schedule! That's the way NBC used to do it back in the old days. Unless I am getting the Reds game,which is rarely the case for me, I boycot watching the FOX game. I just do something else. Saturday evening I just popped in some DVD's I had never watched since getting them. I would check the Reds score every so often on the DTV score guide. I'm hoping they don't show many game this season of the Reds. But since the Reds a re pretty good I'm afraid more and more games will be on.

mbgrayson
06-04-2012, 08:52 AM
The Fox-Saturday blackout rules are stupid. Last year it was the Reds Saturday day games, and this year evening games, that I simply can't ever see.

As long as there are multiple games underway, the chances that Fox deems Montana in that portion of the country that can see the Reds is very unlikely.

And I have the Extra Innings program as well as a DirecTv premium lineup. They aren't trying to sell me something. They have just decided not to let me watch. WHY??? How utterly stupid. Why don't they sell a Fox Saturday baseball package that I could subscribe to through cable or satellite? One would think that their advertisers would be HAPPY if more people could watch, and they could actually make some money.... And I would ultimately pay to be able to see games that I simply can't watch right now at all.

I really can't see any way that anyone in baseball benefits from these blackout rules....dumb. The weird thing is that they often show the game in the local market. So to the degree that having the game on TV affects attendance, the blackout won't help at all.

Maybe we should network with other teams fan sites and start a boycott of all FOX advertisers until they change their policies. Or maybe we should look up the names or the morons that put this policy in place, and start writing some letters and e-mails.

membengal
06-16-2012, 12:48 PM
And it happens again tonight. Sigh.

Unassisted
06-16-2012, 01:50 PM
Why, WHY, why, other than you still hate your most loyal customers, do you continue to so compartmentalize the Fox Game of the Week window that out-of-market fans cannot see their favorite teams on Saturdays? It makes no sense. None.
It does to Fox. If you're watching MLB on TV on a Saturday afternoon, they want you watching their game. MLB is complicit because the national contract with Fox brings $2.5 Billion into the game over 6 years and they'd rather anger a few out of market fans than take less money for those rights. If the ratings for the national game decline, due to people watching out-of-market teams, the next contract might bring in less than $417 million a year. MLB doesn't want that.

If you think about it, Fox is televising about 50 games nationally each season, so they're paying about $8 million/game for those rights. IMO, they deserve to have some leverage for infusing that much cash per game into the sport.

BTW, Bud Selig keeps getting re-hired as commissioner because the owners like the revenue he's bringing in. The blackouts are a naked play to boost revenue. Bud may plead ignorance about the details, but he most assuredly condones them.

powersackers
06-16-2012, 01:55 PM
Listen I feel for you all. That said, this is what I think about an exclusive "Game(s) of the week" format:

FOX national pays the billionaires (owners) the millions that they need so they can pay the millionaires (players) the millions that they want. And small market teams like the Reds benefit from that National revenue sharing generated from that lucrative National contract. Each team can negotiate their local cable TV rights, but that value is very little in Cincy or Cleveland and this lucrative/exclusive package from FOX national might just be what allows us the Votto, Phillips and Chapman long term contracts.

I don't claim to be an expert on this matter, but that's how I logically work it out in my head. Giving up one Saturday game of my home team, so I can see 4-5 other games a week with a talented "locked up for years" roster in my small market would be worth it to me. And it's not like your cut off from baseball - you get to see a select game with updates/highlights from other games - 1 night a week.

Tornon
06-16-2012, 02:00 PM
It does to Fox. If you're watching MLB on TV on a Saturday afternoon, they want you watching their game.

FOX televises multiple NFL games every Sunday, but if you get NFL Prime Ticket package you can tune into any of those FOX affiliates to get the game that you want. Everyone would still be watching FOX, they'd just be getting the game that they want. I don't know why MLB doesn't make this available to us.

powersackers
06-16-2012, 02:13 PM
FOX televises multiple NFL games every Sunday, but if you get NFL Prime Ticket package you can tune into any of those FOX affiliates to get the game that you want. Everyone would still be watching FOX, they'd just be getting the game that they want. I don't know why MLB doesn't make this available to us.

Because it takes quite a production crew and equipment to ensure you see the advertising on breaks and in game that Fox needs you to see. For instance "Ray St. Clair roofing" isn't going to sponsor something Nationally. Pepsi Max/Chevy, Big Pharmaceuticals etc. can and do. But for the big bucks they put up, they need you to see it, so through computers, they take over the in stadium advertising with their own. Notice behind home plate, the advertising you see on Fox Saturday is not what the people in the stadium see.

That's why they don't make it available to us. Because that kinda production and specialized gear/teams can only take place in 3-4 stadiums and still make money for all involved, it can't be done in 16 stadiums.

The NFL is simply more lucrative and has 3-4 networks covering their games. They can show every game to everyone because the workload is spread out.

Again, no expert, just breaking it down logically

Unassisted
06-16-2012, 02:29 PM
The NFL is simply more lucrative and has 3-4 networks covering their games. They can show every game to everyone because the workload is spread out.
It has higher ratings, too.

Nationally-televised NFL games are consistently in the Top 5 highest-rated TV shows for the week, during that season. It's been a long time since that was true for MLB games.

The NFL has the benefit of playing its games in the fall and winter when there are more people at home using television than MLB's summer season. That means the high rankings translate into high ratings.

Tornon
06-16-2012, 03:37 PM
Because it takes quite a production crew and equipment to ensure you see the advertising on breaks and in game that Fox needs you to see. For instance "Ray St. Clair roofing" isn't going to sponsor something Nationally. Pepsi Max/Chevy, Big Pharmaceuticals etc. can and do. But for the big bucks they put up, they need you to see it, so through computers, they take over the in stadium advertising with their own. Notice behind home plate, the advertising you see on Fox Saturday is not what the people in the stadium see.

That's why they don't make it available to us. Because that kinda production and specialized gear/teams can only take place in 3-4 stadiums and still make money for all involved, it can't be done in 16 stadiums.

The NFL is simply more lucrative and has 3-4 networks covering their games. They can show every game to everyone because the workload is spread out.

Again, no expert, just breaking it down logically

They already have the production crews/in game advertising at the 3 or 4 FOX games of the week though. I just don't like that they force one specific game on you based on your market. Let me cycle between all the games they are televising nationally and I'll still be seeing all the in-game advertising they want me to.

membengal
06-16-2012, 04:08 PM
It does to Fox. If you're watching MLB on TV on a Saturday afternoon, they want you watching their game. MLB is complicit because the national contract with Fox brings $2.5 Billion into the game over 6 years and they'd rather anger a few out of market fans than take less money for those rights. If the ratings for the national game decline, due to people watching out-of-market teams, the next contract might bring in less than $417 million a year. MLB doesn't want that.

If you think about it, Fox is televising about 50 games nationally each season, so they're paying about $8 million/game for those rights. IMO, they deserve to have some leverage for infusing that much cash per game into the sport.

BTW, Bud Selig keeps getting re-hired as commissioner because the owners like the revenue he's bringing in. The blackouts are a naked play to boost revenue. Bud may plead ignorance about the details, but he most assuredly condones them.

But...I do NOT watch Fox when they do this. I simply boycott the regional game they make me get.

I covered this above...IF Fox wants an exclusive window, put ONE game in there (and one backup for weather) and call it national.

But it sucks beyond belief that they lock away SIX games with this method.

Stupid.

So, no, Fox doesn't benefit. I choose not to watch, and I am not alone in that.

757690
06-16-2012, 04:19 PM
The thing is, I really doubt that this is helping the ratings of Fox game of the week that much. The people that they're afraid will switch to their team's game on another channel will likely never watch the game of the week on Fox if it's not their team anyway. They'll either listen to their game on the radio or follow it on Gameday.

757690
06-16-2012, 04:21 PM
Because it takes quite a production crew and equipment to ensure you see the advertising on breaks and in game that Fox needs you to see. For instance "Ray St. Clair roofing" isn't going to sponsor something Nationally. Pepsi Max/Chevy, Big Pharmaceuticals etc. can and do. But for the big bucks they put up, they need you to see it, so through computers, they take over the in stadium advertising with their own. Notice behind home plate, the advertising you see on Fox Saturday is not what the people in the stadium see.

That's why they don't make it available to us. Because that kinda production and specialized gear/teams can only take place in 3-4 stadiums and still make money for all involved, it can't be done in 16 stadiums.

The NFL is simply more lucrative and has 3-4 networks covering their games. They can show every game to everyone because the workload is spread out.

Again, no expert, just breaking it down logically

It seems that the extra money they pay MLB for exclusive rights would be significantly more that the costs you mentioned. It doesn't seem logical at all.

Hollcat
06-16-2012, 04:37 PM
I've never really understood why MLB thinks they need to give so much control to fox. Take less money to keep the control needed to best market your product to your fans. The extra money received from selling out to a network only goes to escalate player salaries anyway.

Crumbley
06-16-2012, 08:08 PM
I've never really understood why MLB thinks they need to give so much control to fox. Take less money to keep the control needed to best market your product to your fans. The extra money received from selling out to a network only goes to escalate player salaries anyway.
Media cash is what keeps small markets in the game.

gilpdawg
06-16-2012, 08:19 PM
If you have MLB.TV and a jail broken iPad or rooted Android tablet, use a location spoofer app and tell it you are in Canada. The Fox blackout is US only. I have the game on TV here, but I tested it and it works.

membengal
06-16-2012, 09:14 PM
If you have MLB.TV and a jail broken iPad or rooted Android tablet, use a location spoofer app and tell it you are in Canada. The Fox blackout is US only. I have the game on TV here, but I tested it and it works.

You might as well have typed that advice in sanskrit...

WMR
06-16-2012, 09:31 PM
This is a microcosm of why baseball has gone from the #1 sport in America to a DISTANT third.

Tom Servo
06-16-2012, 09:45 PM
This is a microcosm of why baseball has gone from the #1 sport in America to a DISTANT third.
What's second?

WMR
06-16-2012, 10:13 PM
What's second?

Beach volleyball.

Dan
06-18-2012, 06:42 AM
Beach volleyball.

Yeah except they're ruining the game (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/03/28/olympic-volleyball-uniform_n_1385879.html) for their fans too.

Unassisted
06-18-2012, 12:22 PM
Media cash is what keeps small markets in the game.Exactly. To put it more bluntly in 2012 terms, without the national media deal, the Reds likely don't have the cash to sign Joey Votto for over $200 million.

westofyou
06-23-2012, 11:44 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mlb%E2%80%99s-blackout-problem-keeps-sport-in-dark-ages.html;_ylt=AsocF9Qgm1vTwIIl3zndmc0RvLYF;_ylu=X 3oDMTN1azhxNDJxBG1pdANGRUFUVVJFRCBNZWdhdHJvbiBNTEI EcGtnAzViYjdhN2VhLTc3NGMtM2RjNS04MmI3LTQ1OGZkYTg5Z jY2MARwb3MDMgRzZWMDbWVnYXRyb24EdmVyAzNjNGFiNGYxLWJ jNzUtMTFlMS04YmFmLTA2ZDU4YWIwNDY2MQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTFoODgyNmttBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANtbGIEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3



On the first page of a complaint filed May 9 in Manhattan, two words aim squarely for Major League Baseball's jaw and deliver a swift blow: "Illegal cartel."

Garber et al v. MLB is a class-action antitrust suit looking to do what no amount of complaining from baseball fans could: destroy the blackout rules. Four fans Fernanda Garber, Marc Lerner, Derek Rasmussen and Robert Silver are suing MLB, MLB Advanced Media (which runs the MLB.tv service), DirecTV, nine teams and eight stations that broadcast games. They claim baseball "colluded" by packaging its out-of-market games together via the Extra Innings and MLB.tv offerings and that the league and its partners "exploit their illegal monopoly by charging supra-competitive prices."

The basis of the argument is simple: By dividing up territories and setting fixed prices, MLB is in violation of the Sherman Act. If baseball is indeed breaking antitrust laws, its entire business model goes kaboom. And so while lawsuits stream into 245 Park Avenue frequently, this is one, according to a number of sources, the league is taking very seriously.

membengal
06-23-2012, 04:21 PM
Its just such a weird self-inflicted wound. Don't advertise the mlb.com and directv pacakges as "see every game" and then actually NOT let people "see every game"...

kaldaniels
07-14-2012, 11:30 AM
Will today's game (4pm) be available on the EI package if our local Fox station isn't carrying it?

Hollcat
07-14-2012, 11:43 AM
Exactly. To put it more bluntly in 2012 terms, without the national media deal, the Reds likely don't have the cash to sign Joey Votto for over $200 million.

Is money from the national media deal distributed evenly or do small market teams get a larger chunk than large market teams.

membengal
07-14-2012, 01:01 PM
Will today's game (4pm) be available on the EI package if our local Fox station isn't carrying it?



No.

fearofpopvol1
07-14-2012, 02:12 PM
Going to get screwed today living in NY with the Mets/Braves game.

Though I have to say, even though I'm irked I won't be able to watch today, it's seemingly happened where the Reds have played at different times than the national game most Saturdays this season.

Crumbley
07-14-2012, 02:15 PM
Nothing more rewarding than paying money to watch the Reds but having to watch random Saturday games on a pirate stream

Hollcat
07-14-2012, 02:36 PM
Going to get screwed today living in NY with the Mets/Braves game.

Though I have to say, even though I'm irked I won't be able to watch today, it's seemingly happened where the Reds have played at a different times than the national game most Saturdays this season.

I'm getting screwed too and I live within the reds market. My local fox affiliate on directv comes from Knoxville instead of Lexington even though I live in KY. So we will get to watch the Braves/Mets instead.

westofyou
07-14-2012, 03:51 PM
Mets/Braves in PNW too

fearofpopvol1
08-25-2012, 04:14 PM
I live in NY and I get the Braves/Giants?? What gives? Can I at least have a choice since no local teams (including the Red Sox) are playing?

oneupper
08-25-2012, 05:44 PM
You at least have baseball. I have coverage of a Tropical Storm which isn't even going to come here. :(

Chip R
08-25-2012, 09:11 PM
I live in NY and I get the Braves/Giants?? What gives? Can I at least have a choice since no local teams (including the Red Sox) are playing?

You got all those NY Giants fans. ;)

Unassisted
08-26-2012, 09:20 AM
Is money from the national media deal distributed evenly or do small market teams get a larger chunk than large market teams.It's distributed evenly.

Chip R
12-05-2012, 11:10 PM
It looks like a federal judge is letting this suit go forward.

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/sports-fans-pursue-antitrust-case-over-programming-163402066--nhl.html;_ylt=AjoOIgAyhuXPPL1Pc0GmTMiOJvJ_;_ylu=X3 oDMTRrZXI5MzJrBGNjb2RlA3ZzaGFyZWFnMnVwcmVzdARtaXQD UnRSbCBOZXdzIEZvciBZb3UEcGtnA2RmZjUyODVlLTI3NTUtMz U2OS04ZmVhLTJmNjU0NzM5MzNhMARwb3MDMQRzZWMDbmV3c19m b3JfeW91BHZlcgNmOGJkYmYxMS0zZjI5LTExZTItYWZiZi1iND AxZmNjZmIxYjU-;_ylg=X3oDMTJudHR0aWI3BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDZTI5ZjczZTktZGM2MS0zOTVjLWIwNDEtM2Y0MmZhNW EyOTY5BHBzdGNhdANuZXdzBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQ--;_ylv=3