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Benihana
06-04-2012, 09:02 PM
Please use this thread to post scouting reports, links, and other comments about the Reds' 2012 first round pick.

Blitz Dorsey
06-04-2012, 09:06 PM
It's weird. Didn't like the pick at first (simply because experts didn't project him in the first round) but I'm quickly warming up to it. If he really has a 99 MPH fastball, I'm intrigued to say the least.

klw
06-04-2012, 09:07 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/#list=draft


Nick Travieso Rank: 32
Archbishop McCarthy HS (Fla.), Sr.
Height: 215, Weight: 6'2"
osition: RHP
DOB: 01/31/1994
Bats: R, Throws: R Commitment: Miami

The Florida high schooler was on the move up Draft boards as the spring progressed, thanks to some serious arm strength and the potential for a solid three-pitch mix.
Travieso can touch the mid 90s with his fastball, sitting comfortably in the 92-93 mph range, with very good movement in a downward plane. His buries his slider well down in the zone, with good late break to it. His changeup is deceptive at times, though he needs to improve his ability to keep it down in the strike zone.

Like with many young pitchers, he’ll need to refine his command at the next level, but he shows pretty solid presence and instincts on the mound while repeating a clean delivery fairly consistently. The fastball-slider duo alone would be enough for him to excel as a reliever, but he has the chance to develop into more than that down the line.

The Rage
06-04-2012, 09:12 PM
I like his mechanics more than Stephs.

krm1580
06-04-2012, 09:26 PM
MLB.com has him rated as the #32 player, Baseball America has him at #40 and the Reds take him at #14. I don't like the pick and I will like it a lot less if the Nats sign Giolito.

On the flip side since he was such a reach, hopefully he signs below slot enabling the Reds to get some upside guys later.

nate1213
06-04-2012, 09:31 PM
Hopefully he can sign quick and maybe we can see he and Stephenson in the Billings rotation. Any chance of that?

powersackers
06-04-2012, 09:45 PM
Like the pick more after reading this about his April 14th No Hitter.

http://www.browardhighschoolbaseball.com/2012/04/archbishops-travieso-no-hits-gulliver-prep/01010629

dougdirt
06-04-2012, 10:01 PM
Love the pick. To be honest, I didn't have him on my radar because of where other palces had him ranked, he didn't seem to fit the #14 area or the #49-57 area so I didn't really check in on him. But after reading his scouting reports and watching the video all I was left thinking was "how the heck* was this guy ranked so low"?

You are telling me that a high schooler who throws 92-95 MPH, touches 99, has an above-average breaking ball and a change up that at least shows you something with good mechanics in a weak draft was in the #30-40 range? Please.

Blitz Dorsey
06-04-2012, 10:08 PM
Love the pick. To be honest, I didn't have him on my radar because of where other palces had him ranked, he didn't seem to fit the #14 area or the #49-57 area so I didn't really check in on him. But after reading his scouting reports and watching the video all I was left thinking was "how the heck* was this guy ranked so low"?

You are telling me that a high schooler who throws 92-95 MPH, touches 99, has an above-average breaking ball and a change up that at least shows you something with good mechanics in a weak draft was in the #30-40 range? Please.

What do you make of that, Doug? Do you chalk it up to him being a relief pitcher at best for his HS team prior to his senior year?

Benihana
06-04-2012, 10:19 PM
Love the pick. To be honest, I didn't have him on my radar because of where other palces had him ranked, he didn't seem to fit the #14 area or the #49-57 area so I didn't really check in on him. But after reading his scouting reports and watching the video all I was left thinking was "how the heck* was this guy ranked so low"?

You are telling me that a high schooler who throws 92-95 MPH, touches 99, has an above-average breaking ball and a change up that at least shows you something with good mechanics in a weak draft was in the #30-40 range? Please.

I kinda agree. If they went with a pitcher, I wanted a HS pitcher with upside- even if it meant more risk and a longer development window. They didn't take the guy I wanted (Giolito) but I'm OK with the pick.

dougdirt
06-04-2012, 10:21 PM
What do you make of that, Doug? Do you chalk it up to him being a relief pitcher at best for his HS team prior to his senior year?

Chalk it up to him being a late bloomer, a very protective father who didn't want him throwing all year round at showcases like a lot of other guys do.

Superdude
06-04-2012, 10:27 PM
Love the pick. To be honest, I didn't have him on my radar because of where other palces had him ranked, he didn't seem to fit the #14 area or the #49-57 area so I didn't really check in on him. But after reading his scouting reports and watching the video all I was left thinking was "how the heck* was this guy ranked so low"?

You are telling me that a high schooler who throws 92-95 MPH, touches 99, has an above-average breaking ball and a change up that at least shows you something with good mechanics in a weak draft was in the #30-40 range? Please.

I was a little torn about this pick. It seemed like a huge overdraft looking at the rankings, but like you said, the scouting reports look pretty freakin' promising. Maybe a little raw, but seems to have an upside I never imagined we would land in this draft.

joe51391
06-04-2012, 10:34 PM
I was really hoping Hawkins would have slipped down he would look nice in LF. he will be in the bigs no later than 3 years that kid is a stud

traderumor
06-04-2012, 10:40 PM
Chalk it up to him being a late bloomer, a very protective father who didn't want him throwing all year round at showcases like a lot of other guys do.
One might say a very wise father. Thanks, dad for doing what you can to save your son's arm. :thumbup:

nmculbreth
06-04-2012, 11:30 PM
I like the pick. I was hoping the Reds would try to target high ceiling players to add more top end talent to the system and it looks like they've done just that. I was all aboard the Gialioto bandwagon, but from all indications Travieso has a nice arm and comes without the questions surrounding his health and signability so I'm willing to give the Reds brass the benefit of the doubt.

fearofpopvol1
06-04-2012, 11:34 PM
MLB.com has him rated as the #32 player, Baseball America has him at #40 and the Reds take him at #14. I don't like the pick and I will like it a lot less if the Nats sign Giolito.

On the flip side since he was such a reach, hopefully he signs below slot enabling the Reds to get some upside guys later.

Jim Callis had San Fran drafting him at #20, though.

As I sat there and Nick's name was called, I was thinking, who?? I had not seen the Reds linked to him, so I was a bit befuddled. But after reading up further on the guy and seeing video and scouting reports, I have to say that I'm starting to like the pick a lot. The Reds have earned my trust on the 1st round picks.

With that said, I would have taken Giolito myself. The upside was just too great, injury or not. I can't believe the Nats were able to draft him. They're going to have 1 heck of a future.

RedlegJake
06-04-2012, 11:36 PM
The more you read about this kid the more you like him. Little wear and tear on his arm. His father protective. He has an aggressive bulldog mentality, fierce competitor. Shows a touch for off speed stuff but needs pro coaching. Can dial it up to 99. Has a broad, strong frame similar to Seaver and Clemens type build. Said to be coachable. Reds have been in on him for some time and know him quite well.

Benihana
06-04-2012, 11:39 PM
The more you read about this kid the more you like him. Little wear and tear on his arm. His father protective. He has an aggressive bulldog mentality, fierce competitor. Shows a touch for off speed stuff but needs pro coaching. Can dial it up to 99. Has a broad, strong frame similar to Seaver and Clemens type build. Said to be coachable. Reds have been in on him for some time and know him quite well.

Hopefully that means he's a quick sign. Would like to see him and Stephenson in the same rotation, even if it's just in Billings.

RedlegJake
06-04-2012, 11:40 PM
Hopefully that means he's a quick sign. Would like to see him and Stephenson in the same rotation, even if it's just in Billings.

That's exactly what I was hoping when I read about the Reds having been following this kid and his friendship with the son of one of their scouting directors

RedlegJake
06-04-2012, 11:52 PM
Already an Enquirer article:
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120604/SPT04/306040088/Reds-draft-high-school-pitcher-Travieso?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Reds

nmculbreth
06-04-2012, 11:53 PM
Has there been any indication about what sort of bonus that Travieso is looking to get? Part of me wonders whether or not the Reds thought they could grab a guy they wanted a bit earlier than he might have gone otherwise, sign him for less than slot money and then use the extra money later in the draft.

RedlegJake
06-05-2012, 12:18 AM
Has there been any indication about what sort of bonus that Travieso is looking to get? Part of me wonders whether or not the Reds thought they could grab a guy they wanted a bit earlier than he might have gone otherwise, sign him for less than slot money and then use the extra money later in the draft.

That only works to a point, the money can only be used in the first ten rounds. And with a protective father I don't think we're talking a huge discount from slot here. I think we're simply talking the willingness to sign at all.

The DARK
06-05-2012, 12:22 AM
Would have been a steal in the later rounds, and definitely deserved to be ranked higher than he was. With all the talk about being a reliever in the long run, there's not a whole lot I see that supports that. A fastball with good break that touches 99 MPH, above average slider, and a changeup with potential... all in a HS prospect with good mechanics? That sounds to me like a keeper.

Vottomatic
06-05-2012, 08:03 AM
I read an article that said the sites that rank the players tend to drop guys who don't participate in showcases. His Dad has taken care of his arm and not over used him, or let him do too much.

Also read articles that basically said he wasn't a secret to all the teams. Several teams were considering drafting him in the first round. Kind of like the best kept secret that several teams knew about.

I doubt he'll be a bust. Could end up being that diamond in the rough that really will showcase how good or bad the Reds scouting/drafting department is. If this kid is the real deal, then the Reds scouting is the real deal too.

lollipopcurve
06-05-2012, 08:27 AM
Could end up being that diamond in the rough that really will showcase how good or bad the Reds scouting/drafting department is. If this kid is the real deal, then the Reds scouting is the real deal too.

Their track record speaks for itself. You can't expect any team to hit gold every year. The team has been remarkably consistent in making good first round picks over the last several years -- I think their reputation is secure.

lollipopcurve
06-05-2012, 10:33 AM
BA has a draft video of Travieso that at the end shows him taking a few swings. Apparently he was also a pretty good hitter for his high school team (one of the best teams in the country). Really like the fact that despite what looks like a sturdy build for a high schooler, this kid is a nice natural athlete. The more I see and read on him, the more I like him.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-05-2012, 11:15 AM
Assuming Travieso signs, how would he rank among Reds pitching prospects (Corcino, Stephenson, Sulbaran, Cingrani, and Lotzkar)?

I'm assuming he'd be close to Cingrani (right after Corcino and Stephenson) and ahead of Sulbaran and Lotzkar. Does that sound about right?

1. Corcino
2. Stephenson

3/4. Cingrani
3/4. Travieso

5/6. Lotzkar
5/6. Sulbaran

Benihana
06-05-2012, 11:18 AM
Assuming Travieso signs, how would he rank among Reds pitching prospects (Corcino, Stephenson, Sulbaran, Cingrani, and Lotzkar)?

I'm assuming he'd be close to Cingrani (right after Corcino and Stephenson) and ahead of Sulbaran and Lotzkar. Does that sound about right?

1. Corcino
2. Stephenson

3/4. Cingrani
3/4. Travieso

5/6. Lotzkar
5/6. Sulbaran

Personally, I'd put them like this as of right now:

1. Corcino
2. Lotzkar
3. Cingrani
4. Stephenson
5. Travieso
6. Sulbaran

Although they do carry upside, it's hard to rank guys who have yet to throw a pitch in full season ball ahead of guys with upside who are doing very well in AA. If Lotzkar stays healthy, he is one of the best in the system IMO. Given that he isn't slotted for Dayton a full year after being drafted, it's hard to keep ranking Stephenson ahead of Lotzkar and Cingrani, and I'd put Travieso as a slight tick behind Stephenson- given that he's more of a project.

Sulbaran is the Homer Bailey of the minor leagues. Good stuff, but there always seems to be a "but"...

JaxRed
06-05-2012, 11:28 AM
Sulbaran is the Homer Bailey of the minor leagues. Good stuff, but there always seems to be a "but"...

But... he has pretty much sucked every year. He has a 4.58 ERA right now. And that's the best ERA of his career.

camisadelgolf
06-05-2012, 11:38 AM
Their track record speaks for itself. You can't expect any team to hit gold every year. The team has been remarkably consistent in making good first round picks over the last several years -- I think their reputation is secure.
Although this is true, if the pick doesn't pan out, this is when everyone starts to slam Buckley for how he lost his touch or whatever. Everyone will want his head if he's unable to "restock" the organization. And since he already knew Travieso, people would never let go of the nepotism thing.

dougdirt
06-05-2012, 12:27 PM
Their track record speaks for itself. You can't expect any team to hit gold every year. The team has been remarkably consistent in making good first round picks over the last several years -- I think their reputation is secure.

Every Reds first rounder (true first rounder, not supplemental) has made the Major Leagues since 2003 with the exception of Robert Stephenson, who is 19 years old. I can't imagine any team has a better streak going than that in the game.

OnBaseMachine
06-05-2012, 01:00 PM
I've did a complete 180 on Travieso. When I first heard the pick I didn't like it, he seemed like a reach. After doing some research, I've really come around. Kid has a great build, nice mechanics, a fastball in the mid-90's with a great slider and the makings of a changeup. Chris Buckley compared him to Matt Cain, who he also scouted in high school.

I also loved the Jesse Winker and Tanner Rahier picks.

I'm not sure what to think of Jeff Gelalich. I'll have to do some more reading on him.

camisadelgolf
06-05-2012, 01:04 PM
Drafting Gelalich was the Reds' way of apologizing to the lower minor league affiliates that they were going to draft so many high schoolers. That's not a knock on Gelalich--I'm very excited about him, personally--but he clearly has the lowest ceiling of the guys taken so far.

Superdude
06-05-2012, 01:17 PM
I've did a complete 180 on Travieso. When I first heard the pick I didn't like it, he seemed like a reach. After doing some research, I've really come around. Kid has a great build, nice mechanics, a fastball in the mid-90's with a great slider and the makings of a changeup. Chris Buckley compared him to Matt Cain, who he also scouted in high school.

Same here. If the reports are correct, I don't know what more people wanted to see out of the kid. Elite arm strength, promising secondary stuff, solid build, clean mechanics. It sounds like lack of exposure hurt his draft status, but if that's the only gripe, we came away with a steal here.

Benihana
06-05-2012, 01:27 PM
I've did a complete 180 on Travieso. When I first heard the pick I didn't like it, he seemed like a reach. After doing some research, I've really come around. Kid has a great build, nice mechanics, a fastball in the mid-90's with a great slider and the makings of a changeup. Chris Buckley compared him to Matt Cain, who he also scouted in high school.

I also loved the Jesse Winker and Tanner Rahier picks.

I'm not sure what to think of Jeff Gelalich. I'll have to do some more reading on him.

Agreed- like the Travieso pick. Love the Winkler and Rahier picks. Jury is out on Gelalich.

(Of course, the jury is out on all draft picks, but you know what I mean)

Mario-Rijo
06-05-2012, 02:23 PM
Don't like the pick. Amongst some other potential (perhaps) smaller issues he is likely a reliever.

Read More...
PG Crosschecker (http://www.perfectgame.org/Players/Playerprofile.aspx?ID=231123)


The reason that Travieso doesn’t get much first round talk among scouts despite his mid- to upper-90s fastball and completely clean health record is the same as hard throwing college relievers such as Oklahoma’s Damien Magnifico and St. Edwards’ Stephen Johnson. It’s hard to project his pitching mechanics, arm action and full complement of pitches to a starter’s role, although Travieso has a greater benefit of time on his side, particularly given his relatively fresh arm. Travieso has a well-paced delivery with a compact and short high arm circle in back and gets very good use of his strong lower half to generate power and torque prior to release. He also leans off pretty severely on release and spins to the first base side. The result is when Travieso releases the ball he’s coming inside and over it in a pronounced way. That makes it very difficult for him (or any pitcher) to get on top of and out front of a breaking ball and create consistent quality spin on the ball and also presents somewhat of a tip to advanced hitters because he has to change his hand angle and position for a breaking ball.

bucksfan2
06-05-2012, 02:23 PM
I've did a complete 180 on Travieso. When I first heard the pick I didn't like it, he seemed like a reach. After doing some research, I've really come around. Kid has a great build, nice mechanics, a fastball in the mid-90's with a great slider and the makings of a changeup. Chris Buckley compared him to Matt Cain, who he also scouted in high school.

I also loved the Jesse Winker and Tanner Rahier picks.

I'm not sure what to think of Jeff Gelalich. I'll have to do some more reading on him.

Dude has tree trunks as thighs. His build reminds me a lot of Matt Cain. In just watching the video it almost seems as if he is throwing 100% all the time. I am encouraged that he can touch 99 at times but sits within the 92ish range. Its always nice to have a pitcher who is able to dial it up but doesn't pitch the entire time like that.

camisadelgolf
06-05-2012, 02:31 PM
Don't like the pick. Amongst some other potential (perhaps) smaller issues he is likely a reliever.

Read More...
PG Crosschecker (http://www.perfectgame.org/Players/Playerprofile.aspx?ID=231123)
Sounds like Johnny Cueto's old skeptics have been talking.

Mario-Rijo
06-05-2012, 02:52 PM
Sounds like Johnny Cueto's old skeptics have been talking.

IDK but guy sounds like a 1st round version of Tyler Cline, Sean Watson, etc.. They have yet to get one of these types to pan out.

RedlegJake
06-05-2012, 03:01 PM
The Reds scouts have been in on Travioso for a long time. They are convinced evidently. I don't mean any disrespect to you personally when I say this because it sounds rude and I do not mean it like that Mario but I'll take their word over yours every day (and over the scouts you quoted). I love the pick.

dougdirt
06-05-2012, 03:13 PM
IDK but guy sounds like a 1st round version of Tyler Cline, Sean Watson, etc.. They have yet to get one of these types to pan out.

Every Reds first rounder since 2003 has made the Majors. They seem to get those types right.

Vottomatic
06-05-2012, 03:16 PM
Don't like the pick. Amongst some other potential (perhaps) smaller issues he is likely a reliever.

Read More...
PG Crosschecker (http://www.perfectgame.org/Players/Playerprofile.aspx?ID=231123)


Don't like the pick. Amongst some other potential (perhaps) smaller issues he is likely a reliever.

Read More...
PG Crosschecker


Quote:
The reason that Travieso doesn’t get much first round talk among scouts despite his mid- to upper-90s fastball and completely clean health record is the same as hard throwing college relievers such as Oklahoma’s Damien Magnifico and St. Edwards’ Stephen Johnson. It’s hard to project his pitching mechanics, arm action and full complement of pitches to a starter’s role, although Travieso has a greater benefit of time on his side, particularly given his relatively fresh arm. Travieso has a well-paced delivery with a compact and short high arm circle in back and gets very good use of his strong lower half to generate power and torque prior to release. He also leans off pretty severely on release and spins to the first base side. The result is when Travieso releases the ball he’s coming inside and over it in a pronounced way. That makes it very difficult for him (or any pitcher) to get on top of and out front of a breaking ball and create consistent quality spin on the ball and also presents somewhat of a tip to advanced hitters because he has to change his hand angle and position for a breaking ball.


.....yeah, yeah, yeah.........and Eric Davis had a hitch in his swing. ;)

Superdude
06-05-2012, 03:51 PM
IDK but guy sounds like a 1st round version of Tyler Cline, Sean Watson, etc.. They have yet to get one of these types to pan out.

I don't remember hearing anything about Tyler Cline beyond a fastball that scraped 90. Kind of ridiculous to compare the two IMO.

Mario-Rijo
06-05-2012, 04:14 PM
I don't remember hearing anything about Tyler Cline beyond a fastball that scraped 90. Kind of ridiculous to compare the two IMO.

You can compare guys anyway you want. What I see is another pudgy guy who has few innings on his arm and has the potential to start but profiles best as a relief arm.

dougdirt
06-05-2012, 04:36 PM
You can compare guys anyway you want. What I see is another pudgy guy who has few innings on his arm and has the potential to start but profiles best as a relief arm.

He is a high schooler with two above average pitches right now and a feeling of a change up. That doesn't profile as a reliever.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2012, 07:39 PM
What are his stats?

JaxRed
06-05-2012, 07:43 PM
Reds broadcast says they will be talking to him about 8 PM

Superdude
06-05-2012, 07:45 PM
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/pitchers-of-the-2012-draft-first-round-analysis/

Cool article about Travieso's mechanics, along with some of the other first round arms. Not sure if it's been posted

Mario-Rijo
06-05-2012, 09:13 PM
He is a high schooler with two above average pitches right now and a feeling of a change up. That doesn't profile as a reliever.

And there is no guarantee he ever gets the feel for it. A bit risky to take a guy #14 overall that has only 2 pitches IMO.

Doug they (guys who do this for a living) said it on the broadcast, it's in writing by others who also do it for a living, your argument is with Callis, Mayo and a few others.

dougdirt
06-05-2012, 09:17 PM
And there is no guarantee he ever gets the feel for it. A bit risky to take a guy #14 overall that has only 2 pitches IMO.

Doug they (guys who do this for a living) said it on the broadcast, it's in writing by others who also do it for a living, your argument is with Callis, Mayo and a few others.

Nearly every high school pitcher ever has had two pitches with a feel for a third. Every one of them. 18 year old kids don't have three MLB quality pitches. They just don't.

Callis had the kid going 20th.

And while I don't "do it for a living", I certainly do it for part of my living.

I think part of the "reliever" talk simply comes from the fact that this kid only started this season because his dad wanted to protect his arm from being overused. He has clean mechanics. He has a good body. He has three pitches and two of them are really good. Nothing at all about that says reliever.

Mario-Rijo
06-05-2012, 09:20 PM
Nearly every high school pitcher ever has had two pitches with a feel for a third. Every one of them. 18 year old kids don't have three MLB quality pitches. They just don't.

Callis had the kid going 20th.

And while I don't "do it for a living", I certainly do it for part of my living.

I think part of the "reliever" talk simply comes from the fact that this kid only started this season because his dad wanted to protect his arm from being overused. He has clean mechanics. He has a good body. He has three pitches and two of them are really good. Nothing at all about that says reliever.

Callis also had him ranked much lower than that did he not? That was merely a prediction IIRC, as if he knew some other team had interest in him around that spot.

Yeah I know you do Doug but you have your blindspots and they are usual the moment someone puts a Reds Jersey on.

fearofpopvol1
06-05-2012, 09:23 PM
Nearly every high school pitcher ever has had two pitches with a feel for a third. Every one of them. 18 year old kids don't have three MLB quality pitches. They just don't.

Callis had the kid going 20th.

And while I don't "do it for a living", I certainly do it for part of my living.

I think part of the "reliever" talk simply comes from the fact that this kid only started this season because his dad wanted to protect his arm from being overused. He has clean mechanics. He has a good body. He has three pitches and two of them are really good. Nothing at all about that says reliever.

Which I'm thrilled about. Seriously. How many parents put limitations on their kid so they don't blow out their arm?? We may be thanking his dad later.

fearofpopvol1
06-05-2012, 09:25 PM
Callis also had him ranked much lower than that did he not? That was merely a prediction IIRC, as if he knew some other team had interest in him around that spot.

Yeah I know you do Doug but you have your blindspots and they are usual the moment someone puts a Reds Jersey on.

I have to be honest, I don't agree. I actually think Doug had more biases when he first started posting here. I think he's been mostly fair and objective in recent times. I've regularly seen him talk about Hamilton's warts and he's considered to be the best prospect in the Reds system currently.

And Doug was the biggest Stubbs fan on the whole board for a long time. Even now, I see Doug conceding his warts.

I just think your assessment is a bit unfair.

dougdirt
06-05-2012, 09:26 PM
Callis also had him ranked much lower than that did he not? That was merely a prediction IIRC, as if he knew some other team had interest in him around that spot.

Yeah I know you do Doug but you have your blindspots and they are usual the moment someone puts a Reds Jersey on.

Callis had him ranked 30th coming into the draft and noted he had a lot of helium coming into the draft.

As for my blindspot.... I still seem to be one of the only people on this board who still ranks Tony Cingrani outside of the Reds top 4 starting pitching prospects (not even counting Travieso, who I would also rank ahead of him) because I think he has a good chance to wind up as a reliever. I haven't been as high on Billy Hamilton as most of the national publications. I just call it like I see it. Nothing at this point on Travieso's resume suggests he is a reliever at all. Not his repertoire, not his mechanics, not his control, not his size.

RedsManRick
06-05-2012, 09:43 PM
Interesting that the Reds went for another high schooler who was considered a fast riser at the draft. That was the story with Mesoraco as well. I wonder if Buckley & co. put a relatively strong emphasis on most recent info for HSers compared to others.

Superdude
06-05-2012, 09:58 PM
And there is no guarantee he ever gets the feel for it. A bit risky to take a guy #14 overall that has only 2 pitches IMO.

Zero percent of my income is derived from this opinion, but I can't even begin to count the number of times I've seen "feel for a developing changeup" on a high school pitcher's scouting report; and that includes a whole bunch of very highly touted pitchers. If there was a guarantee he would get a feel for it, he wouldn't have even got close to the 14th pick.

djc27osu
06-05-2012, 11:10 PM
Like most at first I wasn't thrilled with the pick but since made a 180 and really like the pick. I especially like that his arm doesn't have a lot of wear and tear. Also, I began to like the pick even more after hearing him speak during the Reds game and with Lance McAllister. He is very well spoken I can't believe people were bashing him after that mock interview during the draft saying things like he has a few DUIs in his future.

Superdude
06-06-2012, 12:12 AM
Like most at first I wasn't thrilled with the pick but since made a 180 and really like the pick. I especially like that his arm doesn't have a lot of wear and tear. Also, I began to like the pick even more after hearing him speak during the Reds game and with Lance McAllister. He is very well spoken I can't believe people were bashing him after that mock interview during the draft saying things like he has a few DUIs in his future.

I was impressed as well. After watching Buxton fumble a few words out fielding the most obvious questions in the world on national television, I like knowing Travieso has a head on his shoulders. And the bulldog mentality gets tagged on a lot of stocky, hard throwing pitchers, but he definitely seems to have that competitive streak in him. I loved the quote, "That's my plate!"

dunner13
06-06-2012, 08:24 AM
From reading the reports it seems like Travieso is a guy who best case develops into a top of the rotation starter, worst case is a nasty closer. I can live with that. He may not have the polish of some of the college pitchers that were taken but it seems like he has a very high ceiling. To be throwing 99 at 18 is pretty impressive.

Benihana
06-06-2012, 02:13 PM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120604&content_id=32756160&vkey=news_cin&c_id=cin

Dan
06-06-2012, 03:00 PM
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/pitchers-of-the-2012-draft-first-round-analysis/

Cool article about Travieso's mechanics, along with some of the other first round arms. Not sure if it's been posted

He looks to have a little bit of the "inverted 'W' (http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/pitchingmechanics101/Essays/DeathToTheInvertedW.html)" issue going on. Article was right to watch for shoulder issues down the road.

dougdirt
06-06-2012, 08:15 PM
He looks to have a little bit of the "inverted 'W' (http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/pitchingmechanics101/Essays/DeathToTheInvertedW.html)" issue going on. Article was right to watch for shoulder issues down the road.

No he doesn't. He is loading behind his back. Your eyes are playing tricks on you.

mth123
06-06-2012, 10:19 PM
From reading the reports it seems like Travieso is a guy who best case develops into a top of the rotation starter, worst case is a nasty closer. I can live with that. He may not have the polish of some of the college pitchers that were taken but it seems like he has a very high ceiling. To be throwing 99 at 18 is pretty impressive.

Worst case is a lot worse. Think Chris Gruler.

HokieRed
06-06-2012, 10:28 PM
Zero percent of my income is derived from this opinion, but I can't even begin to count the number of times I've seen "feel for a developing changeup" on a high school pitcher's scouting report; and that includes a whole bunch of very highly touted pitchers. If there was a guarantee he would get a feel for it, he wouldn't have even got close to the 14th pick.

Exactly. If this guy had a mid 90's fastball, excellent slider, and accomplished change, he'd be one of the first 3 players chosen, quite possibly the first. As to the comment about his perhaps profiling as a reliever, that's scout talk; there's a lot of it. Somebody makes a comment like that and it gets quoted. It doesn't mean squat. Look at his video. Kid is a classic big time power starter.

MikeS21
06-07-2012, 08:56 AM
Exactly. If this guy had a mid 90's fastball, excellent slider, and accomplished change, he'd be one of the first 3 players chosen, quite possibly the first. As to the comment about his perhaps profiling as a reliever, that's scout talk; there's a lot of it. Somebody makes a comment like that and it gets quoted. It doesn't mean squat. Look at his video. Kid is a classic big time power starter.
Unfortunately, "they" were saying the same thing about Aroldis Chapman, too.

The problem will be patience during development. Resisting the urge to promote/rush guys when they need a "pick-me-up" to draw fans in during subpar summers.

redsmetz
06-07-2012, 09:10 AM
The problem will be patience during development. Resisting the urge to promote/rush guys when they need a "pick-me-up" to draw fans in during subpar summers.

Others have noted this, but doesn't it seem as if the club is lining up various classes of pitchers to move up to the big league club as others are exiting? Right now we have a glut of starters, especially if the club moves forward with putting Chapman in the rotation (part of why using Chapman in relief this year was even possible when the relievers dropped like flies).

Obviously anything can happen, but I'm with those who believe there's no need to rush Travieso or Stephenson or who else is in the pipeline.

dougdirt
06-07-2012, 11:37 AM
Unfortunately, "they" were saying the same thing about Aroldis Chapman, too.

The problem will be patience during development. Resisting the urge to promote/rush guys when they need a "pick-me-up" to draw fans in during subpar summers.
Well that simply won't happen with a high school kid because he is going to spend 3+ years as a starter in the minors before it is ever even considered to bring him to the Majors. Unlike Chapman, where it was 35% of one season before the talk began.

RedlegJake
06-07-2012, 02:34 PM
A BIG key to me is that Red scouts have been very close to this kid for quite a while. He is best friends with the son of a Latin American scouting director, I imagine they have been talking and watching him from a more familiar vantage than most scouts are privy to since he started playing ball. They claim to have knowledge of this kid other scouts don't and that may be things about his personality and demeanor that bode well for his development. Those intangibles that are so hard to guess at when draftig when every kid has talent and what seperates the winners from losers is often what's between their ears.

I'll take the Reds scouting department at their word on this kid. Inside knowledge. Close eye on him for a long time. I don't see how you can read his reports and those coming from the Reds and not draw the immediate conclusion that they played him very close to the vest to keep from losing him - I LOVE THIS PICK!

Kc61
06-07-2012, 03:03 PM
If Travieso becomes a closer or a high end set up man, I'm delighted.

The quest for TOR starting pitchers is important, but there are other needs to fill.

We won't know for quite awhile, but I don't view "closer" or even "set up man" as curse words.

Seems like the type of arm who could be a power starter or reliever. If he's good and a Red, I'll be happy either way.

Benihana
06-07-2012, 04:00 PM
If Travieso becomes a closer or a high end set up man, I'm delighted.

The quest for TOR starting pitchers is important, but there are other needs to fill.

We won't know for quite awhile, but I don't view "closer" or even "set up man" as curse words.

Seems like the type of arm who could be a power starter or reliever. If he's good and a Red, I'll be happy either way.

You value the bullpen more than most. A closer maybe, but if a top 15 pick becomes a setup man 5-7 years after he's drafted, I'm disappointed. Not a bust per se, but still disappointing if that is the result.

lollipopcurve
06-07-2012, 04:03 PM
You value the bullpen more than most. A closer maybe, but if a top 15 pick becomes a setup man 5-7 years after he's drafted, I'm disappointed. Not a bust per se, but still disappointing if that is the result.

Disappointment probably a result of high expectations. If you also look back and see guys in the top 15 who never made it -- and there are always some -- the solid setup guy looks OK.

camisadelgolf
06-07-2012, 04:12 PM
My expectations for draft picks are that they earn the money they're given. If a player signs for $800k, I expect at least $800k worth of production.

malcontent
06-07-2012, 04:45 PM
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/pitchers-of-the-2012-draft-first-round-analysis/

Cool article about Travieso's mechanics, along with some of the other first round arms. Not sure if it's been posted
Thanks, Superdude.

That analysis makes me more optimistic about the pick.

The Rage
06-07-2012, 06:08 PM
Travieso's mechanics are better than Stephs were this time last year. I think that is the reason why Stephenson hasn't pitched at Dayton the whole year like most first rounders do.

I suspect Travieso will go straight to Dayton.

RedlegJake
06-07-2012, 06:19 PM
Travieso's mechanics are better than Stephs were this time last year. I think that is the reason why Stephenson hasn't pitched at Dayton the whole year like most first rounders do.

I suspect Travieso will go straight to Dayton.

More likely Billings since he has a coaching contact there who knows him to help get his feet wet

dougdirt
06-07-2012, 06:19 PM
Travieso's mechanics are better than Stephs were this time last year. I think that is the reason why Stephenson hasn't pitched at Dayton the whole year like most first rounders do.

I suspect Travieso will go straight to Dayton.

I would bet he winds up in rookie ball first.

lollipopcurve
06-08-2012, 07:20 AM
I would bet he winds up in rookie ball first.

I'd be stunned if he doesn't.

Superdude
06-08-2012, 01:32 PM
I would bet he winds up in rookie ball first.

Maybe off topic, but does the fact that Stephenson's only throwing short season ball say anything about the organization's opinion of him or are they just being more cautious these days? Even Phillipe Valiquette started in Dayton if I remember correct.

RedlegJake
06-08-2012, 01:46 PM
Maybe off topic, but does the fact that Stephenson's only throwing short season ball say anything about the organization's opinion of him or are they just being more cautious these days? Even Phillipe Valiquette started in Dayton if I remember correct.

This says the world about the care the Reds now take with high profile arms. They are reportedly working with his mechanics and teaching him a change of pace before letting him loose on the competitive world. Long time from the days when a first rounder might hurl 180 innings right out of the gate. It was dog eat dog then but now the dog costs a few million dollars they're a lot more cautious.

dougdirt
06-08-2012, 05:14 PM
Maybe off topic, but does the fact that Stephenson's only throwing short season ball say anything about the organization's opinion of him or are they just being more cautious these days? Even Phillipe Valiquette started in Dayton if I remember correct.

It would seem that after JC Sulbaran went to Dayton and got his brains beat in, the Reds decided to go a little slower with these guys right out of high school. Toss in that he spent the time working on his change up in a controlled environment rather than game situations where he may want to go to other pitches to get outs since 'it counts' and I don't think it is a real bad idea. Certainly I would have liked to see him in Dayton, but they were able to control his arm and innings much easier this way and spend the first 3 months of the season working specifically on things that he may not have been able to do if he had been in Dayton.

TOBTTReds
06-12-2012, 03:48 PM
Well this was fast, nice to see! From Jim Callis:


#Reds sign 1st-rder Nick Travieso for $2 mil (pick value=$2,375,000). Florida HS RHP w/91-95 to 98 FB, hard slider. #mlbdraft

redsmetz
06-12-2012, 04:00 PM
Well this was fast, nice to see! From Jim Callis:

I know the rule changes were partly to speed this up and get these guys in the fold, when is the last time we didn't have a 1st rounder drag out for most of the summer? It will be good to see him get some playing time yet this summer, no matter how small that may or may not be.

indy_dave00
06-12-2012, 04:08 PM
Reds To Sign Nick Travieso

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [June 12, 2012 at 2:43pm CST]

The Reds will officially sign first round pick Nick Travieso, Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com reports. Travieso, the 14th overall selection, will obtain a $2MM bonus.

MLB recommended a $2.375MM bonus for the 14th selection, so the Reds save toward their overall draft cap with the agreement. The high school right-hander has a fastball that touches 98 and a hard slider, Jim Callis of Baseball America
tweets

dougdirt
06-12-2012, 04:25 PM
I know the rule changes were partly to speed this up and get these guys in the fold, when is the last time we didn't have a 1st rounder drag out for most of the summer? It will be good to see him get some playing time yet this summer, no matter how small that may or may not be.

Mesoraco in 2007. Stubbs in 2006. Bruce in 2005. All guys played nearly a full rookie ball season.

redsmetz
06-12-2012, 04:31 PM
Mesoraco in 2007. Stubbs in 2006. Bruce in 2005. All guys played nearly a full rookie ball season.

So it's been five years since we've landed one early enough. I like.

Blitz Dorsey
06-12-2012, 04:36 PM
Yeah, this will make it fun following the AZL Reds this year. They should have Travieso, Winker and Rahier all playing there. Maybe Rosa too, although he'll probably go to Billings.

Billings will be fun to follow too. Stephenson, Rosa (probably), Langfield (one of my favorite picks of the draft), etc.

dougdirt
06-12-2012, 04:45 PM
Yeah, this will make it fun following the AZL Reds this year. They should have Travieso, Winker and Rahier all playing there. Maybe Rosa too, although he'll probably go to Billings.

Billings will be fun to follow too. Stephenson, Rosa (probably), Langfield (one of my favorite picks of the draft), etc.

Rosa is just 18 years old. Wouldn't surprise me to see him back in Arizona. Winker is all of 5 weeks younger than Rosa is.

lollipopcurve
06-12-2012, 05:17 PM
Yeah, this will make it fun following the AZL Reds this year. They should have Travieso, Winker and Rahier all playing there. Maybe Rosa too, although he'll probably go to Billings.

Also Jonathan Perez, their big ticket signee out of VZ last year.

malcontent
06-13-2012, 11:11 AM
The Reds will officially sign first round pick Nick Travieso, Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com reports. Travieso, the 14th overall selection, will obtain a $2MM bonus.

MLB recommended a $2.375MM bonus for the 14th selection, so the Reds save toward their overall draft cap with the agreement.
Just wondering if the discount may have had anything to do with the pick (since he was expected to go later than 14)?

corkedbat
06-13-2012, 11:39 AM
Yeah, this will make it fun following the AZL Reds this year. They should have Travieso, Winker and Rahier all playing there. Maybe Rosa too, although he'll probably go to Billings.

Billings will be fun to follow too. Stephenson, Rosa (probably), Langfield (one of my favorite picks of the draft), etc.

I think Goodyear and Billings will be more fun to follow than the rest of the system has been this year (with the possible exception of Bakersfield). A lot of interesting players and storylines at the bottom of the organization.

krm1580
06-13-2012, 02:18 PM
Just wondering if the discount may have had anything to do with the pick (since he was expected to go later than 14)?

I think the fact that the Reds scouting department had been close to him for a while combined with the fact his ranking was in the 30s meant the Reds were relatively certain he would be there when they picked and I am sure they discussed numbers ahead of time.

Along those lines by my calculations with the guys signed so far, even with the above slot money to Felt the Reds are still under budget by about 320K. Not sure if any of the guys they drafted later are tough signs, but they might be able to do some things.

malcontent
06-13-2012, 04:39 PM
I think the fact that the Reds scouting department had been close to him for a while combined with the fact his ranking was in the 30s meant the Reds were relatively certain he would be there when they picked and I am sure they discussed numbers ahead of time.

Along those lines by my calculations with the guys signed so far, even with the above slot money to Felt the Reds are still under budget by about 320K. Not sure if any of the guys they drafted later are tough signs, but they might be able to do some things.
Thanks, krm1580.

Vottomatic
06-27-2012, 08:20 AM
Will Travieso pitch at all for the Reds farm system this year or will they save his arm since he's been pitching high school season?

redsmetz
06-27-2012, 11:54 AM
Will Travieso pitch at all for the Reds farm system this year or will they save his arm since he's been pitching high school season?

I think given how early he signed, that he'll pitch somewhere this summer. My guess he's still in training somewhere preparing. Then again, I don't know how these things go, so maybe someone else has a clearer picture.

Benihana
06-27-2012, 11:58 AM
I would like to see him pitch somewhere this summer, so that (in my ideal world) Travieso, Stephenson, Cisco, and Romano could all be in the Dayton rotation next year.

Or maybe depending on how the rest of this season goes, someone like Cisco could skip to Advanced A next year, and one or two from Guillon/Garrett/Mugarian/Langfield/Moscot could join the Dayton rotation. Langfield might be another guy who could start in Advanced A next year.

I'd expect Felt and Kivel to spend another year in Rookie League.

Scrap Irony
06-27-2012, 01:34 PM
I would imagine that Stephenson , Mugarian, and maybe Langfield and Moscot could go to Dayton. Perhaps Cisco as well.

But there's little chance Travieso goes to Dayton next season or Cisco gets a bump to Bakersfield.

Benihana
06-27-2012, 05:38 PM
I would imagine that Stephenson , Mugarian, and maybe Langfield and Moscot could go to Dayton. Perhaps Cisco as well.

But there's little chance Travieso goes to Dayton next season or Cisco gets a bump to Bakersfield.

You might be right.

But there is significant precedent for top 15 HS draft picks starting in full season ball the year after they are drafted- especially if/when they sign (and play) early the year they are drafted. In fact every HS pitcher from the last four drafts selected in the first 15 picks started the following year in full season A ball. So did Clayton Kershaw and of course, Homer Bailey, just to name a couple of others.

Superdude
06-27-2012, 08:47 PM
You might be right.

But there is significant precedent for top 15 HS draft picks starting in full season ball the year after they are drafted- especially if/when they sign (and play) early the year they are drafted. In fact every HS pitcher from the last four drafts selected in the first 15 picks started the following year in full season A ball. So did Clayton Kershaw and of course, Homer Bailey, just to name a couple of others.

Yea Stephenson was an exception to the rule for whatever reason. Would be pretty surprised if Traveiso didn't start in Dayton, especially considering he'll get a decent amount of experience this summer.

The Rage
06-27-2012, 09:32 PM
Stephenson may have been held back based on mechanics. Travieso shouldn't have that issue. He is ready to go from that pov.

dougdirt
06-27-2012, 09:40 PM
Stephenson may have been held back based on mechanics. Travieso shouldn't have that issue. He is ready to go from that pov.

I wonder if Travieso gets held back more due to the fact he had only one year starting in high school and the Reds would really like to control his usage and they can do that a whole lot more in EST rather than sending him to Dayton to begin 2013.

Blitz Dorsey
06-28-2012, 01:03 AM
I wonder if Travieso gets held back more due to the fact he had only one year starting in high school and the Reds would really like to control his usage and they can do that a whole lot more in EST rather than sending him to Dayton to begin 2013.

Yeah, I tend to think if Stephenson began the 2012 season at Billings, then Travieso will begin the 2013 season at Billings. I bet the Reds keep them on similar schedules until their production dictates otherwise. Then again, there is one main difference between Stephenson and Travieso: Travieso will actually get some pro experience the same year he was drafted (I don't expect him to pitch much with the AZL Reds this year, but he'll get a few starts where they really limit his pitch count). Stephenson basically sat out a full year before pitching in a real game (not counting extended spring training). If Travieso does well in low rookie ball this year, I could see a scenario where he begins 2013 in Dayton. However, for now, I would guess he'll start 2013 in Billings and Stephenson will start '13 in Dayton.

Scrap Irony
06-28-2012, 07:35 AM
I'm guessing Travieso pitches this year in the AZL and next in Billings.

If he finds a consistent breaking release point on his breaking ball, continues good mechanics, and pitches well between now and then in the AZL, Spring Training and Extended Spring Training, he might move into the Dayton rotation if someone else struggles or isn't much of a prospect.

That's an awful lot of if's.

He'd face to force his way onto the Dayton roster between now and then, IMO.

Benihana
07-02-2012, 04:29 PM
Is Travieso going to pitch in an actual game this season?

(Unrelated to this thread, but I wonder the same thing about Amir Garrett and Mason Felt)

dougdirt
07-02-2012, 04:50 PM
I would expect Garrett for sure. The high schoolers, not as sure. I imagine so, but I also don't know what their full workload was like.

Dan
07-03-2012, 08:33 AM
So there's actually a very outside chance that Travieso, Stephenson, and Garrett could all be in the rotation at some point for Dayton in 2013?

Benihana
07-03-2012, 09:34 AM
So there's actually a very outside chance that Travieso, Stephenson, and Garrett could all be in the rotation at some point for Dayton in 2013?

More than an outside chance, I'd say it's at least 50/50 with Garrett being the big question mark.

klw
07-03-2012, 09:46 AM
Speaking of Garrett, any chance we see him in a game at anytime soon?

Benihana
08-22-2012, 11:10 AM
So does Travieso start in Billings or Dayton next year?

My vote is for Dayton.

dougdirt
08-22-2012, 11:26 AM
Billings. He only started one year in high school. They probably will want to build up his innings a little slowly.

RED VAN HOT
08-22-2012, 01:35 PM
Based on what the organizational approach seems to be, it will be Billings. The Reds have been very cautious with their young, high upside arms. There is less pressure in the rookie leagues, greater opportunity to work mechanics and secondary pitches, and more opportunity to limit the number of pitches due to the greater number of pitchers on the roster enabling them to spread the work load. It is a welcomed improvement over earlier Reds organizations which tended to rush pitchers and lose potentially good talent.