PDA

View Full Version : Reds to recall Negrón; Costanzo to AAA



cinreds21
06-06-2012, 09:23 AM
The Cincinnati Reds have recalled infielder Kris Negron from Triple-A Louisville.

RANDY IN INDY
06-06-2012, 09:29 AM
I didn't know that he had ever been called up to be recalled.

cumberlandreds
06-06-2012, 09:29 AM
Constanzo going back down?

I don't know much about Negron at all. Lefty or Righty? Power? Position? Told you I didn't know anything about him. :)

Redsfan320
06-06-2012, 09:29 AM
Source? (although it seems you've proven reliable as a first-hand source in the past).

Also, who's going down? Costanzo? or Stubbs to DL?

320

BuckeyeRedleg
06-06-2012, 09:31 AM
.608 lifetime OPS in 733 PA's in AAA (Loiusville). Although he probably wasn't brought up for his bat.

Where have you gone Paul Janish?

westofyou
06-06-2012, 09:32 AM
Constanzo going back down?

I don't know much about Negron at all. Lefty or Righty? Power? Position? Told you I didn't know anything about him. :)

.291 OB%

Awesome................

CySeymour
06-06-2012, 09:32 AM
Where have you gone Paul Janish?

Reds nation turns its lonely eyes to you....

Redsfan320
06-06-2012, 09:32 AM
I don't know much about Negron at all. Lefty or Righty? Power? Position? Told you I didn't know anything about him.


Negron plays basically everywhere except 1st, pitcher, and catcher. Righty on both sides of the ball. Terrible hitter, frankly. .212/.291/.336/.627 this year in LOU. Similar #s last year.

320

cinreds21
06-06-2012, 09:32 AM
Randy, even if you have never been to the big leagues the technical terminology (if you were already on the 40-man roster) is that you are being "recalled" because presumably you have been optioned down already.

Cumberlands, he's a slick-fielding utility guy who can play all over the infield and can play center as well. Dunno who he is replacing.

320, never give out your sources.

cumberlandreds
06-06-2012, 09:34 AM
.291 OB%

Awesome................

He will fit right in.

Thanks for the info everyone. :thumbup:

CySeymour
06-06-2012, 09:34 AM
So basically Dusty will have two Valdez's on the bench?

BuckeyeRedleg
06-06-2012, 09:34 AM
The worst bench I can ever remember, but at least they're in first place!

Redsfan320
06-06-2012, 09:37 AM
320, never give out your sources.


Haha, I wasn't really asking you to if it was one of your "insider" sources. I can understand that. I was just wondering if it was something published somewhere. But you should go tell your source that the Redszone Roster-Moves Committee (RzRMC) doesn't approve of this decision. ;)

320

cinreds21
06-06-2012, 09:39 AM
Haha, I wasn't really asking you to if it was one of your "insider" sources. I can understand that. I was just wondering if it was something published somewhere. But you should go tell your source that the Redszone Roster-Moves Committee (RzRMC) doesn't approve of this decision. ;)

320

haha nope the move (from what I can tell) isn't published, so y'all are one of the first to know.

membengal
06-06-2012, 09:41 AM
Weird to post a late-April Fool's joke today, but, good one, cinreds21...

cinreds21
06-06-2012, 09:42 AM
Better late than never?

batsfan
06-06-2012, 09:43 AM
Is Stubbs injured?

The great thing about Negron is that he can play above average to gold glove defense at any of his positions. Because of this, his nickname is Spiderman. Here is a great catch he made in center a couple of nights ago: Kristopher Negron's crazy diving catch vs. SYR - 5/28/12 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAZq_2FTDwo&list=UUheTPjMGxOHP0KHdTvsv_VA&index=5&feature=plcp)

REDREAD
06-06-2012, 10:00 AM
I really hope Stubbs is not injured.. I was only half listening to the game last night.
I noticed Valdez finished the game in CF.. was Stubbs pulled for an injury?

If Stubbs goes to the DL, the offense is REALLY going to struggle.
Not really looking forward to Hiesey and Ludwick playing every day.

I'm hoping Constanzo is getting sent down..

jhu1321
06-06-2012, 10:02 AM
I really hope Stubbs is not injured.. I was only half listening to the game last night.
I noticed Valdez finished the game in CF.. was Stubbs pulled for an injury?

If Stubbs goes to the DL, the offense is REALLY going to struggle.
Not really looking forward to Hiesey and Ludwick playing every day.

I'm hoping Constanzo is getting sent down..

Stubbs felt something "pull" in his back on a swing. The dreaded oblique injury?

Kc61
06-06-2012, 10:12 AM
I really hope Stubbs is not injured.. I was only half listening to the game last night.
I noticed Valdez finished the game in CF.. was Stubbs pulled for an injury?

If Stubbs goes to the DL, the offense is REALLY going to struggle.
Not really looking forward to Hiesey and Ludwick playing every day.

I'm hoping Constanzo is getting sent down..

Reds are thin in the outfield, maybe Negron is joining the bench to help give Drew a few days off. Hoping it's not the DL for Stubbs.

OesterPoster
06-06-2012, 10:40 AM
Stubbs felt something "pull" in his back on a swing. The dreaded oblique injury?

Yeah, first thing I thought when I read it was the back side of his rib cage.

PuffyPig
06-06-2012, 10:45 AM
I assume it's to have another CF, so I assume Stubbs is on DL or they just want another possible CF replacement and Constanza is down. But Stubbs must be hurt a bit at least for this to make any sense.

OesterPoster
06-06-2012, 10:56 AM
Found this on a Twitter search, posted 8 hours ago:

Daniel Nava ‏@dnavs33
Wanna send out a special congrats to my boy Kris Negron for getting his first call up with the Reds!!! Atta baby, Cali pride!!

cinreds21
06-06-2012, 10:59 AM
I will say that Daniel Nava was not my source.

corkedbat
06-06-2012, 11:09 AM
I know it wouldn't happen, but I'd rather give LaMarre a chance.

redsmetz
06-06-2012, 11:31 AM
I know it wouldn't happen, but I'd rather give LaMarre a chance.

Particularly if it's a DL stint, most clubs begin with guys presently on their 40 man roster. It's just simpler. That said, if it's Costanzo going down, I think it's unlikely someone claims him when he's designated.

Boss-Hog
06-06-2012, 11:39 AM
If Stubbs to the DL is the corresponding move, why wouldn't they recall Willie Harris? I believe he can play CF, but I could be wrong.

Clearly he didn't exactly tear it up earlier this year, but he's had some some success at the major league level. I'll take that over a guy with a .291 OBP at AAA.

fearofpopvol1
06-06-2012, 11:39 AM
If it were me, I'd stick Heisey in center and Ludwick in left, if Stubbs can't play. Not awesome, but better than batting Negron.

Boss-Hog
06-06-2012, 11:41 AM
If it were me, I'd stick Heisey in center and Ludwick in left, if Stubbs can't play. Not awesome, but better than batting Negron.

I would, too, but we will need at least one backup OF. I don't think they consider Frazier an option there and I believe he can only play LF.

dougdirt
06-06-2012, 11:44 AM
I would, too, but we will need at least one backup OF. I don't think they consider Frazier an option there and I believe he can only play LF.

Negron probably plays the outfield better than Harris at this point and Negron may not hit a lot, but he does have some pop in his bat (not a ton, but he can run into some extra base hits, he isn't a slap hitter).

Big Klu
06-06-2012, 11:44 AM
Where have you gone Paul Janish?

To the disabled list.


My guess is that the Reds view this as a short-term roster fix (maybe they have something in the works), and they don't want to mess with clearing space on the 40-man roster for a short-timer. The only healthy position players in Louisville who are already on the 40-man roster are Kris Negron and Neftali Soto. Neither are hitting well, and Negron is more versatile defensively, so he gets the call. (Didi Gregorius is also on the 40-man, but the jump from AA Pensacola might be too great.)

Brutus
06-06-2012, 11:49 AM
Randy, even if you have never been to the big leagues the technical terminology (if you were already on the 40-man roster) is that you are being "recalled" because presumably you have been optioned down already.


That's usually the case, although not always.

You're right though, if you're on the 40-man roster during spring training, unless you're assigned outright, then you're technically optioned to the minors to start the season which means you're recalled if returning to the big leagues during the year.

_Sir_Charles_
06-06-2012, 11:58 AM
Personally, I think if Stubbs gets DL'd it'll prompt a trade from Walt. *crosses fingers*

camisadelgolf
06-06-2012, 12:00 PM
Here's another interesting rumor: http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2618707&postcount=134

Tom Servo
06-06-2012, 12:27 PM
I agree that I'd rather see LaMarre get his feet wet if Stubbs is out, but I suppose right now we don't really know the circumstances.

PuffyPig
06-06-2012, 12:34 PM
They would simply be looking for a spare CF who can field well. Heisey would be the regular CF.

RANDY IN INDY
06-06-2012, 12:40 PM
Right now would be a great time for Jocketty to shrewdly make an acquisition that nobody was expecting to really strengthen the starting line up. Stranger things have happened.

Degenerate39
06-06-2012, 12:42 PM
The last few times I've seen Heisey play center I have not been impressed with his defense there. Seems like he takes bad routes more times that not there.

camisadelgolf
06-06-2012, 01:00 PM
The last few times I've seen Heisey play center I have not been impressed with his defense there. Seems like he takes bad routes more times that not there.
The grass is always greener. What I mean is that people love to yell at Drew Stubbs and clamor for Chris Heisey. I get frustrated by Stubbs' strikeouts, too, but his defense is what takes him above Heisey. And don't get me wrong--I love Heisey--but he's mediocre as an everyday player imho.

Blitz Dorsey
06-06-2012, 01:09 PM
OMG, nothing illustrates how bad the Reds' bench is than calling-up Kris Negron, a guy that has barely been over the interstate in Triple-A the last 2 years. This is getting ridiculous. Make a trade for a left-handed bat off the bench, Walt! Not asking for some All-Star caliber player. Just a LH bat off the bench. Shouldn't be that difficult.

fearofpopvol1
06-06-2012, 01:10 PM
The grass is always greener. What I mean is that people love to yell at Drew Stubbs and clamor for Chris Heisey. I get frustrated by Stubbs' strikeouts, too, but his defense is what takes him above Heisey. And don't get me wrong--I love Heisey--but he's mediocre as an everyday player imho.

Stubbs UZR for almost 3400 innings of work is +1.3. He's a very small tick above average. Nothing to write home about defensively, that's for sure. Heisey's UZR is +1.4 in about 1/3 of the amount of innings, including some innings in CF and RF with most being in LF.

Basically, Stubbs has a much larger sample size than Heisey does. And we simply don't know how good or bad Heisey would be in CF because he hasn't had enough time to play out there.

Blitz Dorsey
06-06-2012, 01:11 PM
The grass is always greener. What I mean is that people love to yell at Drew Stubbs and clamor for Chris Heisey. I get frustrated by Stubbs' strikeouts, too, but his defense is what takes him above Heisey. And don't get me wrong--I love Heisey--but he's mediocre as an everyday player imho.

Stubbs' D is overrated IMO. He's fast and that's about it. Just yesterday he cost the Reds a run when he bobbled a ball in CF that allowed the catcher to score from first on a double. Can't believe our homer official scorer didn't give him an error there. That allowed the Pirates to tie the game at 2-2 and then it was all downhill from there. Obviously it was mostly Bailey's fault, but it was just another example of Drew Stubbs faltering defensively.

camisadelgolf
06-06-2012, 01:24 PM
I'm not trying to hail Stubbs as the best center fielder in baseball or anything, but for my money, he's an above-average center fielder, and Heisey is mediocre out there. But if you ask me, Heisey's the best left fielder the Reds have--I'm just sick of people saying he should be in center over Stubbs on a nightly basis.

PuffyPig
06-06-2012, 01:26 PM
Stubbs' D is overrated IMO. He's fast and that's about it. Just yesterday he cost the Reds a run when he bobbled a ball in CF that allowed the catcher to score from first on a double. Can't believe our homer official scorer didn't give him an error there. That allowed the Pirates to tie the game at 2-2 and then it was all downhill from there. Obviously it was mostly Bailey's fault, but it was just another example of Drew Stubbs faltering defensively.


A fielder would never get an error there since the runner was never slowing down and you can't assume he would have been out from deep CF.

But I agree that they would have had a decent shot at him. A good throw and a decent relay nails him easily.

Plus Plus
06-06-2012, 01:51 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/JohnnySmith28

Our favorite insider, Johnny Smith, says that Negron is not being called up.

Read with skepticism.

Blitz Dorsey
06-06-2012, 01:55 PM
A fielder would never get an error there since the runner was never slowing down and you can't assume he would have been out from deep CF.

But I agree that they would have had a decent shot at him. A good throw and a decent relay nails him easily.

A decent shot? He was out for sure if Stubbs comes up with that ball, even if his throw to Cozart is a bit off. Only reason they were even sending Barajas is because the pitcher was on deck. Absolutely should have been an error, and I think the official scorer had the option of making it an error. Otherwise, both Brantley and Kelch were wrong because they agreed it should have been an error on Stubbs and there was no way Barajas would have scored without the "error" from Stubbs.

reds44
06-06-2012, 01:56 PM
Why not Gathright?

Blitz Dorsey
06-06-2012, 01:57 PM
Why not Gathright?

Don't be fooled by his small sample size at Louisville. He's atrocious.

reds44
06-06-2012, 02:00 PM
As opposed to the guy who is atrocious in AAA?

PuffyPig
06-06-2012, 02:01 PM
A decent shot? He was out for sure if Stubbs comes up with that ball, even if his throw to Cozart is a bit off. Only reason they were even sending Barajas is because the pitcher was on deck. Absolutely should have been an error, and I think the official scorer had the option of making it an error. Otherwise, both Brantley and Kelch were wrong because they agreed it should have been an error on Stubbs and there was no way Barajas would have scored without the "error" from Stubbs.

You forget that they seldolm give an error on relay throws even if wide.

Generally an error is called when a runner slows down, but then takes the extra base when a bobble occurs. Or when the throw beats the runner but the catcher flubs it.

If the first relay throw is wide of the cut off man an error is generally not called, unless the runner had slowed and was holding up.

IIRC, Brantley recanted his earlier remark when they looked at the replay and saw that the runner never slowed his pace.

cumberlandreds
06-06-2012, 02:03 PM
Why not Gathright?

They would have to clear a 40 man spot too.

reds44
06-06-2012, 02:05 PM
They would have to clear a 40 man spot too.
Is there some reason to keep Costanzo on the 40 man roster?

TOBTTReds
06-06-2012, 02:11 PM
Why not Gathright?

Because he would become Dusty's favorite player thay you can't convince to bench.

fearofpopvol1
06-06-2012, 02:13 PM
I'm not trying to hail Stubbs as the best center fielder in baseball or anything, but for my money, he's an above-average center fielder, and Heisey is mediocre out there. But if you ask me, Heisey's the best left fielder the Reds have--I'm just sick of people saying he should be in center over Stubbs on a nightly basis.

I can't speak for others, but I've not clamored for that, at least not with the way the team is currently constructed. What I did say is that Heisey should play CF if Stubbs is injured. His defense should be at least average and I think his bat plays better than Negron's would.

I would rate Stubbs' defense as average. He certainly has above average (even elite) speed, but his jumps are often poor, which hurts his value. I think he's an average CFer.

M2
06-06-2012, 02:14 PM
If Stubbs is injured I don't think it particularly hurts the team. Heisey, Ludwick and Stubbs are all essentially the same guy at the plate. If Stubbs is going to be there for any amount of time, I might go down to AA to replace him. Either give LaMarre a shot or issue Henry Rodriguez an outfielder's glove.

cumberlandreds
06-06-2012, 02:19 PM
Is there some reason to keep Costanzo on the 40 man roster?

No not really. Trading him for Gathright is probably a wash though.

puca
06-06-2012, 02:35 PM
If Stubbs is injured I don't think it particularly hurts the team. Heisey, Ludwick and Stubbs are all essentially the same guy at the plate. If Stubbs is going to be there for any amount of time, I might go down to AA to replace him. Either give LaMarre a shot or issue Henry Rodriguez an outfielder's glove.

Starting lineup is probably not hurt much - although Stubbs speed on the basepaths will be missed. The bench becomes even weaker though. Mike Leake and Bronson Arroyo might be the best sticks off the bench.

_Sir_Charles_
06-06-2012, 02:42 PM
Negron probably plays the outfield better than Harris at this point and Negron may not hit a lot, but he does have some pop in his bat (not a ton, but he can run into some extra base hits, he isn't a slap hitter).

Couldn't you just delete the "slap" part? :p

_Sir_Charles_
06-06-2012, 02:45 PM
They would simply be looking for a spare CF who can field well. Heisey would be the regular CF.

Personally, I would've brought up Dorn and let Heisey man center. If we need a backup CF'er...that would be Bruce. At least this way you have a somewhat viable pinch hitter in Dorn and he can certainly man LF for a short stint (I think he's been mostly 1b lately).

_Sir_Charles_
06-06-2012, 02:49 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/JohnnySmith28 (https://twitter.com/#%21/JohnnySmith28)

Our favorite insider, Johnny Smith, says that Negron is not being called up.

Read with skepticism.

Why on earth do you follow that guy?!? :confused:

Plus Plus
06-06-2012, 02:52 PM
Why on earth do you follow that guy?!? :confused:

Old habits die hard. :p

PuffyPig
06-06-2012, 02:56 PM
Personally, I would've brought up Dorn and let Heisey man center. If we need a backup CF'er...that would be Bruce.


Presumably if they want a back up CF for defensive purposes late in the game, moving Bruce to CF basically kills your defense in RF.

There are three positions where managers want to have a true defensive back up, it's C, CF and SS.

cumberlandreds
06-06-2012, 02:59 PM
Stubbs isn't in the lineup tonight. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if we find out shortly he's on the 15 day DL.

HokieRed
06-06-2012, 03:01 PM
Presumably if they want a back up CF for defensive purposes late in the game, moving Bruce to CF basically kills your defense in RF.

There are three positions where managers want to have a true defensive back up, it's C, CF and SS.

Two of which Negron plays: CF and SS. Does Negron's call up make Valdez the odd man out now? With Negron to back Heisey and Cozart and Cairo to back Frazier and Phillips, we could add a more significant bat to play in the OF corners, dropping Valdez.

PuffyPig
06-06-2012, 03:05 PM
Two of which Negron plays: CF and SS. Does Negron's call up make Valdez the odd man out now? With Negron to back Heisey and Cozart and Cairo to back Frazier and Phillips, we could add a more significant bat to play in the OF corners, dropping Valdez.

But that assumes you want to keep Negron around forever? He may be recalled for 3 days until Stubbs could play again for all we know. Valdez can't be sent down.

Plus we don't know if any of this is true.

I'm surprised the actual plan hasn't been annonced yet.

It may be that Stubbs is still being evaluated and while Negron is on his way to Cincy, they are unsure if he will be activated.

REDREAD
06-06-2012, 03:07 PM
If Stubbs is injured I don't think it particularly hurts the team. Heisey, Ludwick and Stubbs are all essentially the same guy at the plate. If Stubbs is going to be there for any amount of time, I might go down to AA to replace him. Either give LaMarre a shot or issue Henry Rodriguez an outfielder's glove.

Stubbs is having an odd season.. In 36 games in the #2 hole, he's OPSing 824. That Stubbs is incredibly valuable.

The 15 games he didn't start in the #2 hole were absolutely horrible beyond belief.

I guess I am willing to give him a mulligan on the bad 15 games and say overall that he's been contributing this season, just as some other players have gotten a pass on their slow starts this year. Now, I agree that if you throw out 1/3 of Heisey and Ludwick's bad games, they look at lot better too.

Also, I will say that if you bat Stubbs in the #2 slot all year, there's no guarantee he maintains 824 OPS.. I just feel he's been very valuable during the time the Reds started winning. Heisey and Ludwick haven't contributed as much during the winning surge.. That's why I feel Stubbs will be sorely missed. (If he went into a slump, the good Stubbs would be missed too)

Plus Plus
06-06-2012, 03:12 PM
Today the ‪#Reds‬ recalled from Class AAA Louisville IF/OF Kristopher Negron (#17) and optioned to Louisville IF Mike Costanzo.

https://twitter.com/Jamieblog/status/210448797350895617

Tom Servo
06-06-2012, 03:17 PM
Today the ‪#Reds‬ recalled from Class AAA Louisville IF/OF Kristopher Negron (#17) and optioned to Louisville IF Mike Costanzo.

https://twitter.com/Jamieblog/status/210448797350895617
Guess they'll give Stubbs a day or two and then see if he requires a DL stint or not.

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-06-2012, 03:17 PM
Today the ‪#Reds‬ recalled from Class AAA Louisville IF/OF Kristopher Negron (#17) and optioned to Louisville IF Mike Costanzo.

https://twitter.com/Jamieblog/status/210448797350895617

It was too bad that Costanzo's best trip to the plate was when he crushed one 420 feet in Houston but it was caught. But, if he never gets another call up, at least he can say his one big league hit came in Yankee Stadium. :beerme:

smith288
06-06-2012, 03:20 PM
Costanzo was one of the worst hitters I have seen used as a PH. I felt better when Arroyo or Leake was at bat than Constanzo.

oneupper
06-06-2012, 03:26 PM
Costanzo was one of the worst hitters I have seen used as a PH. I felt better when Arroyo or Leake was at bat than Constanzo.

Constanzo was this year's Jeremy Hermida 2011 edition.

Kc61
06-06-2012, 03:35 PM
The injury to Stubbs, even if not DL worthy, must have crystallized the need for another bench player who can play outfield. Negron is a good defender at various positions, can play CF, so he was a reasonable choice.

From a defensive viewpoint, the Reds had Frazier, Cairo, Costanzo, and Valdez, all of whom can play third base. This really was a bit of overkill at that position. I think they will survive with only three guys who can play third until Rolen comes back.

So Negron provides better defensive balance. Ultimately, however, I'd like to see the Negron spot and the Cairo spot upgraded with higher OBP players, one or both lefty hitters, with one being a platoon guy for LF.

I'm fine with Valdez for his role, although I would have lived with Janish in that role as well. It's a defensive role and I'm not worried about the bat there. I don't see that spot changing.

Vottomatic
06-06-2012, 03:40 PM
Costanzo was one of the worst hitters I have seen used as a PH. I felt better when Arroyo or Leake was at bat than Constanzo.

I couldn't believe it when Dusty sent Costanzo out to pinch hit with 2 men on last night. It was like my worst nightmare. I'd rather seen Cairo or Hanigan or Ludwick at that point. Costanzo is completely overmatched by a good fastball. And he waves at anything when he's down 2 strikes in the count. I think he has like 10 K's in 18 or 19 at-bats for the Reds. That guy needs to hang it up. Ain't happening for him.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-06-2012, 03:43 PM
If the making room on the 40-man is an issue, I'm sure there are a few spots that could be cleared without anyone losing sleep (except for those that are cleared).

Jordan Smith
Chris Valaika
Denis Phipps

Are a start.

And that's not even including Costanzo.

reds44
06-06-2012, 03:55 PM
If Negron plays a good defensive SS, what's the reason to keep Valdez around?

JaxRed
06-06-2012, 04:00 PM
Always nice to see another guy make his ML Debut. (not tonight of course, no manager would play a guy on his first night) :)

*BaseClogger*
06-06-2012, 04:04 PM
The Reds must have some of the worst back-end talent on their 40-man roster in the league...

Plus Plus
06-06-2012, 04:11 PM
If Negron plays a good defensive SS, what's the reason to keep Valdez around?

Seeing as how Costanzo had very little going for him, they could be seeing if they want to keep Valdez or Negron if/when they upgrade the bench or roster from outside the organization. Furthermore, Negron's abilities in CF might be useful with Stubbs nursing an injury.

PuffyPig
06-06-2012, 04:16 PM
If Negron plays a good defensive SS, what's the reason to keep Valdez around?

So we can send Negron back down when Stubbs can play.

Kc61
06-06-2012, 04:40 PM
Seeing as how Costanzo had very little going for him, they could be seeing if they want to keep Valdez or Negron if/when they upgrade the bench or roster from outside the organization. Furthermore, Negron's abilities in CF might be useful with Stubbs nursing an injury.

Valdez is going no place. He is the Reds backup middle infielder. He got off slowly with the bat, but he is a reliable defender, versatile, and can hit better than he has shown. Has winning MLB experience.

You can debate if Valdez should have been acquired since Janish is a similar player.

But Valdez is not being replaced by Negron.

powersackers
06-06-2012, 04:48 PM
Can we call him Kris "SpiderMON" Negron? Said with a Jamican accent it flows nicely.

I suppose we can call him anything as long as it's followed by defensive replacement and/or pinch runner. Anything more than that is a stretch. Only his speed and slap hitting might save him from a Costanzo like line. And at best a Medoza-like line is likely.

BTW, how many 0-16 June's earn a MLB call-up? This is almost silly.

PuffyPig
06-06-2012, 05:32 PM
When Rolen comes back (if?) I'd like to see Cairo go and be replaced by a better OF bat. Same for when Negron gets returned when Stubbs can play.

A bench of:

Mesoracco/Hannigan
Rolen/Frazier
Valdez
Heisey/Ludwick
LH OF

looks quite a bit better than what we have now

CrackerJack
06-06-2012, 05:33 PM
I guess it's not the Summer of George after all.

Plus Plus
06-06-2012, 05:34 PM
Valdez is going no place. He is the Reds backup middle infielder. He got off slowly with the bat, but he is a reliable defender, versatile, and can hit better than he has shown. Has winning MLB experience.

You can debate if Valdez should have been acquired since Janish is a similar player.

But Valdez is not being replaced by Negron.

Absolutely nothing about Valdez says "guaranteed roster spot" at this point, to me. While a discussion can certainly be had regarding Valdez's spot on the roster circa early April of this year, there is always time for reevaluation. A career 1 fWAR player with a career OPS of .605 and a season OPS of .413 and -0.7 fWAR so far (with easily seen gaffes in the field, just from my own memory and WoTV) is not a guy who can't be replaced whether by a cheaper player in the minors, a free agent, another organization, or elsewhere.

I really think that they are taking a good, hard look at the current state of the bench and are trying to see who will win the newest edition of "Reds musical chairs" before a move is made in a month or so.

Kc61
06-06-2012, 05:37 PM
When Rolen comes back (if?) I'd like to see Cairo go and be replaced by a better OF bat. Same for when Negron gets returned when Stubbs can play.

A bench of:

Mesoracco/Hannigan
Rolen/Frazier
Valdez
Heisey/Ludwick
LH OF

looks quite a bit better than what we have now

I agree. And if Rolen isn't healthy and is out for a prolonged time, i'd still replace Cairo and Negron with offensive upgrades, including a lefty outfielder.

Kc61
06-06-2012, 05:41 PM
Absolutely nothing about Valdez says "guaranteed roster spot" at this point, to me. While a discussion can certainly be had regarding Valdez's spot on the roster circa early April of this year, there is always time for reevaluation. A career 1 fWAR player with a career OPS of .605 and a season OPS of .413 and -0.7 fWAR so far (with easily seen gaffes in the field, just from my own memory and WoTV) is not a guy who can't be replaced whether by a cheaper player in the minors, a free agent, another organization, or elsewhere.

I really think that they are taking a good, hard look at the current state of the bench and are trying to see who will win the newest edition of "Reds musical chairs" before a move is made in a month or so.

Just keep in mind that a defensively capable middle infielder for the bench is deemed a necessity. Few of them hit much. So whether it's Valdez or Janish, that's the type of player who will fill that spot.

There is room for more offense with the Cairo spot and the Negron/Costanzo spot. I could even see Heisey or Ludwick being moved for someone deemed a more reliable hitter.

I don't think middle infield is the likely place for an upgrade this season.

DGullett35
06-06-2012, 05:54 PM
I think Id rather have Valdez than Edgar Renteria. Now he was atrocious defensively at short last year. IMO Valdez will not leave this team this year even tho I do agree that he is just a glorified Paul Janish. Maybe you guys would like Valdez more if he didnt look like a freak with that hair and beard.

Blitz Dorsey
06-06-2012, 05:57 PM
When Rolen comes back, the first one to be released should be Cairo. With Rolen and Frazier, there is no longer a need for Cairo. That, and he appears to be washed up.

redsmetz
06-06-2012, 05:58 PM
When Rolen comes back (if?) I'd like to see Cairo go and be replaced by a better OF bat. Same for when Negron gets returned when Stubbs can play.

A bench of:

Mesoracco/Hannigan
Rolen/Frazier
Valdez
Heisey/Ludwick
LH OF

looks quite a bit better than what we have now

I think Cairo's contract was set up to allow for him to be moved via trade this year if necessary or with little financial lost to our club. He's being paid $1M this year, but even if he's cut, if another club picks him up, they have to pay the pro-rated share of the MLB minimum. Let's say he's let go at mid-season, he's still owed $500K. The minimum is about $400K, so we're only out the $300K difference. I know for you & me that's real money, but it's affordable if such an event occurs. Of course, with a straight up trade, it doesn't apply, but someone picking up a half a million is equivalent to what we'd be paying, more or less.

_Sir_Charles_
06-06-2012, 06:32 PM
If Negron plays a good defensive SS, what's the reason to keep Valdez around?

Veteran leadership? ;) I kid.

Truthfully, I've NEVER seen the reason for Valdez. EVER. We had Janish. A better defender, just as versatile and the exact same hitter over his career (although Paul was stroking it before the injury). What was the point in signing Janish (by passing arbitration) and also signing Valdez? Redundant beyond belief IMO.

_Sir_Charles_
06-06-2012, 06:37 PM
I think Cairo's contract was set up to allow for him to be moved via trade this year if necessary or with little financial lost to our club. He's being paid $1M this year, but even if he's cut, if another club picks him up, they have to pay the pro-rated share of the MLB minimum. Let's say he's let go at mid-season, he's still owed $500K. The minimum is about $400K, so we're only out the $300K difference. I know for you & me that's real money, but it's affordable if such an event occurs. Of course, with a straight up trade, it doesn't apply, but someone picking up a half a million is equivalent to what we'd be paying, more or less.

I agree. I also agree that Miguel is pretty much done at this point. However, he more than earned that contract. Cairo was a HUGE surprise in regards to how he performed IMO. One of the better pickups in recent years. But yeah, time to cut the cord and let him go.

edabbs44
06-06-2012, 06:38 PM
I was wondering what happened to Danny Dorn and why we haven't heard much noise on his name. Then I looked at his recent numbers.

reds44
06-06-2012, 06:40 PM
http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1075090/negron.jpg
Immediately the best hair on the team.

_Sir_Charles_
06-06-2012, 06:44 PM
I was wondering what happened to Danny Dorn and why we haven't heard much noise on his name. Then I looked at his recent numbers.

Yep, he picked a bad time to have his worst season. Shame. I'd still prefer him to Negron.

I'd have Bruce as the CF backup when/if he has to play there after Hi-C, you've got other OF'ers who can play the corners. I want the better bat for the bench.

Big Klu
06-06-2012, 07:07 PM
I think Id rather have Valdez than Edgar Renteria. Now he was atrocious defensively at short last year. IMO Valdez will not leave this team this year even tho I do agree that he is just a glorified Paul Janish. Maybe you guys would like Valdez more if he didnt look like a freak with that hair and beard.

Valdez shaved off the beard before last night's game.

_Sir_Charles_
06-06-2012, 07:16 PM
Valdez shaved off the beard before last night's game.

Rick Stowe needed a brillo pad to clean the gunk off some players' shoes.

redsmetz
06-06-2012, 07:17 PM
Valdez shaved off the beard before last night's game.

Didn't he also get a hit? Perhaps there's a correlation (and I say that as a longstanding hirsute individual).

batsfan
06-06-2012, 07:29 PM
The Cowboy just said that Negron's callup was due to him being hot recently, not his overall numbers. Negron was 0 for his last 20 in AAA...

edabbs44
06-06-2012, 08:06 PM
The Cowboy just said that Negron's callup was due to him being hot recently, not his overall numbers. Negron was 0 for his last 20 in AAA...

Yeah, but I mean the very end, when he actually died. That was extremely sudden.

DGullett35
06-06-2012, 09:11 PM
I still don't mind Cairo being on this team. He really has outplayed his contract, and I think his struggles this year have to do with his hammy at the beginning of the year. I think that when it is all said and done he will have proved himself worthy of a roster spot just like in years past. The guy works extremely hard and can play multiple positions. Hes your avarage utility guy, but with his experience he helps out a ton in the clubhouse too.

cinreds21
06-06-2012, 09:46 PM
Best hair and one of the best guys that will be in that Reds clubhouse.

WVRedsFan
06-06-2012, 10:34 PM
We have so many no hit guys on the roster already. I was expecting to see him pinch hitting tonight because that is Dusty's MO.

camisadelgolf
06-06-2012, 11:19 PM
I can't speak for others, but I've not clamored for that, at least not with the way the team is currently constructed. What I did say is that Heisey should play CF if Stubbs is injured. His defense should be at least average and I think his bat plays better than Negron's would.

I would rate Stubbs' defense as average. He certainly has above average (even elite) speed, but his jumps are often poor, which hurts his value. I think he's an average CFer.
I agree 100%. You weren't included in my statement. ;)

But I sure did pick a bad time to criticize Heisey's defense, didn't I? I was at the game and thought, "Uh-oh. RZ might have my head for this one."

camisadelgolf
06-06-2012, 11:46 PM
I'll call him whatever he wants as long as it's not "Willie Harris". I understand criticizing the move, but it really could've been worse.

REDREAD
06-07-2012, 01:19 AM
What was the point in signing Janish (by passing arbitration) and also signing Valdez? Redundant beyond belief IMO.

Actually, signing Valdez was to avoid the situation we are in now.. calling up guys like Negron and Constanzo.. If Janish was healthy, he probably would've been called up before Constanzo..

The Reds were entering the season with basically no help at AAA other than Frazier. Thus, they picked up Navarro, Valdez, and a few bullpen arms to have their for injury depth. Valdez was basically a freebie. It could've just as easily been Valdez that got a broken bone instead of Janish.. then we'd have some depth to draw from.

mth123
06-07-2012, 02:48 AM
Glad to see Negron get his cup of coffee. I doubt it lasts more than a week though. He and Costanzo got a chance that all career minor leaguers dream of. Now, go get David Dejesus, Will Venable, Denard Spann or some other LH On Base guy who can play CF in a pinch and platoon in LF and fix this team a bit.

As for why Negron, he's the best defensive CF on the 40 man roster who was available. If Phipps was healthy, he may have gotten a look. They could add some one to the 40 man fairly easily with guys like Bray shifting to the 60 day DL or one of many fringe minor leaguers being DFAd (including both Costanzo and Negron), but the Reds viewed Negron's defense as superior to Harris, Gathright and Felix Perez. Doesn't bode well for a bunch of guys whose primary use is being a speedy defensive player. I don't think they wanted Lamarre to make the jump, but I'd have probably preferred that.

westofyou
06-07-2012, 09:24 AM
We have so many no hit guys on the roster already. I was expecting to see him pinch hitting tonight because that is Dusty's MO.

No it's not, just about every guy spends his 1st game up from the minors watching the game.

That's actually Dusty's MO with every rookie. He believes in letting them slowly grab the fact that they are now in MLB.