PDA

View Full Version : Three Bold Ideas to Fix LF



Benihana
06-07-2012, 12:10 PM
Clearly the biggest hole on the team right now is a big stick in LF. Here are three out-of-the-box, splashy solutions I would entertain to address this problem:

1. Trade for Justin Upton

I'll start with the least realistic yet most outside-the-box option. Justin Upton is owed $45MM through 2015, when he'll be a 27 year old free agent. While he is less than 10% to get traded, he has struggled immensely in 2012 and just got blasted publicly by his owner: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/06/kendrick-expects-more-consistency-from-upton.html

Upton could plug immediately into the #2 or #4 hole (he hits RH) and juice this lineup for the next 3.5 years. Additionally, he'd be a plus-plus defender in LF. He would cost a bundle both in talent and dollars (although who knows where the limit is on payroll these days?). I'd offer any three prospects in the system for him- probably something like Hamilton, Corcino, and Gregorius, just to see if their front office is tempted to make a bold move given their owner's frustrations. Hamilton is Hamilton and Corcino would look nice along with Bauer, Bradley and Skaggs. Drew is clearly leaving town after this year so Gregorius could start for them as early as next year.

2. Trade for Carlos Quentin

The FA-to-be wouldn't cost much in dollars or long term commitments, and I hypothesized in another thread that something like Soto + Duran could get it done. The SD native could return to his hometown Padres this offseason, so it is unlikely the non-contending Pads would require much in a rental for his services. He's not a great defender but he's been on fire since getting activated from the DL 2 weeks ago. He also hits RH, so he would immediately become a powerful cleanup hitter for the Reds: he has jacked 5 HR in just 27 AB so far this year with Petco as his home field, so just imagine what he could do in GAB.

3. Sign Jorge Soler

OK so this doesn't do anything for the Reds this year. Or next year. But Soler is the premier type of talent that could be the LF on this team for a decade. Between Soler, Bruce, Lutz and Winker, the Reds wouldn't have to worry about another corner OF for at least a decade. It would surely be costly, but probably not as much as another international signing the Reds were willing to pay for- Aroldis Chapman, and he is looking more and more worth it by the day. Plus, this is the last opportunity for a small-market team like the Reds to really make an outlier splash with an amateur player, as the new spending cap goes into effect July 2 (and bids are due for Soler today). I'd really cringe if the Cubs get him, and they are reportedly the favorites to do so.

Thoughts?

CySeymour
06-07-2012, 12:20 PM
I am thinking Quentin isn't going to be as easy to get as some are thinking. Right now he is probably the best bat available, which means that pushes his price up. Not saying the Reds couldn't meet such price, just that it won't be so easy.

Rojo
06-07-2012, 01:07 PM
Mindful of the "trading within the division": Nyjer Morgan. Can reach base against righties, run. Might be a bad chemistry guy. Might be a good one.

camisadelgolf
06-07-2012, 01:33 PM
I am thinking Quentin isn't going to be as easy to get as some are thinking. Right now he is probably the best bat available, which means that pushes his price up. Not saying the Reds couldn't meet such price, just that it won't be so easy.
He's also due to be the best free agent outfielder on the market. If his agent has any say in the matter, he'd only be a rental if the Reds obtain him.

bucksfan2
06-07-2012, 01:59 PM
I heard on ESPN Radio that the Padres are going to want a similar package to Carlos Beltran last season. I don't think Soto and Duran get the job done. I think they are going to want a top 5 Reds prospect in order to complete the deal. If the Reds think he would be the missing piece I have no problems with them doing that, as long as that prospect isn't Hamilton.

Benihana
06-07-2012, 02:11 PM
I am thinking Quentin isn't going to be as easy to get as some are thinking. Right now he is probably the best bat available, which means that pushes his price up. Not saying the Reds couldn't meet such price, just that it won't be so easy.

Agreed that his recent tear helps the Pads asking price, but I would think his defensive limitations as well as his expiring contract put a ceiling on his trade value.


I heard on ESPN Radio that the Padres are going to want a similar package to Carlos Beltran last season. I don't think Soto and Duran get the job done. I think they are going to want a top 5 Reds prospect in order to complete the deal. If the Reds think he would be the missing piece I have no problems with them doing that, as long as that prospect isn't Hamilton.

I wouldn't move Hamilton or Corcino for him, and I'd think long and hard before moving one of the other top three arms (Lotzkar, Cingrani, and Stephenson). Virtually anyone else in the system would be OK by me. Obviously this year's draftees aren't eligible to be dealt.

If we have to give up the farm for a LF, I'd prefer to go really big and try to pry away J.Upton.

bucksfan2
06-07-2012, 02:21 PM
Agreed that his recent tear helps the Pads asking price, but I would think his defensive limitations as well as his expiring contract put a ceiling on his trade value.



I wouldn't move Hamilton or Corcino for him, and I'd think long and hard before moving one of the other top three arms (Lotzkar, Cingrani, and Stephenson). Virtually anyone else in the system would be OK by me. Obviously this year's draftees aren't eligible to be dealt.

I would move Lotzkar for him. I wouldn't move Hamilton, Corcino, Cingrani, Rodriguez, or Stephenson for him. I think the Padres would be crazy to demand a pitcher in a trade of Quentin. Considering they play 70%(?) of their games in extreme pitchers parks its much easire for them to have quality pitching. They needs bats and more bats. I don't know if the Reds are a good fit in that regard.

powersackers
06-07-2012, 02:23 PM
Quinten isn't worth a propsect haul for a rental. Maybe Soto but not much more. I think there's other options.

I think Ludwick might be the LF fix himself! He's had hits in each of his last 5 starts, he's getting RBI and his avg has raised from .191 to .207 in the last 10 days.

But if not, what about AAA options, trade for and give one a these guys a shot:

Corey Brown SYR (WAS)
Jordan Danks CHA (CWS) just called him up today
Lars Anderson PAW (BOS)
Roger Kieshnick PCL (SF) surprised they aren't trying his bat themselves yet
Adam Eaton PCL (ARZ) hitting .399 from Miami Redhawks

Benihana
06-07-2012, 02:38 PM
Quinten isn't worth a propsect haul for a rental. Maybe Soto but not much more. I think there's other options.

I think Ludwick might be the LF fix himself! He's had hits in each of his last 5 starts, he's getting RBI and his avg has raised from .191 to .207 in the last 10 days.

But if not, what about AAA options, trade for and give one a these guys a shot:

Corey Brown SYR (WAS)
Jordan Danks CHA (CWS) just called him up today
Lars Anderson PAW (BOS)
Roger Kieshnick PCL (SF) surprised they aren't trying his bat themselves yet
Adam Eaton PCL (ARZ) hitting .399 from Miami Redhawks

Very doubtful that any of those minor leaguers will be considerably more valuable than a Ludwick/Heisey combo. If we are going to trade away value, I'd want to do it for a significant upgrade, whether that's Quentin, Upton, or someone else that would move the needle.

Kc61
06-07-2012, 02:44 PM
Very doubtful that any of those minor leaguers will be considerably more valuable than a Ludwick/Heisey combo. If we are going to trade away value, I'd want to do it for a significant upgrade, whether that's Quentin, Upton, or someone else that would move the needle.

The Reds now have exactly two lefty hitters on the team (excluding pitchers).

The Reds now have a .309 team OBP.

These two issues can be corrected without trading away the team's top prospects. I wouldn't mortgage the future for Quenton or Upton or a similar player.

I would go for somewhat lesser players who hit lefty and get on base. I think two of them would do the trick. More power isn't a critical need, the Reds hit their share of long balls with the current cast.

jhu1321
06-07-2012, 02:49 PM
Mindful of the "trading within the division": Nyjer Morgan. Can reach base against righties, run. Might be a bad chemistry guy. Might be a good one.

I don't want anybody with an alter-ego on this team plus Votto might kill him.

powersackers
06-07-2012, 02:49 PM
The go big idea sounds ok. Its just so unlikely. My ML guys might not out hit Heisey and Ludwick, but they might!

RedsManRick
06-07-2012, 02:52 PM
What I'd give to have Upton. I think you're right in that there's very little chance he can be had, but it sure would be nice. I'm think we'd have to give them some major league talent, not just minor leaguers; though Hamilton and Corinco are likely at the top of anybody's Reds target list.

I've got to say though, I don't get the fascination with Quentin. He's had 1 good season, 4 years ago. He's got a lot of power, but that's pretty much it. He's a poor defender who's really struggled to square the ball up since 2008. In terms of production, I don't see him as giving any more than Heisey.

Benihana
06-07-2012, 02:54 PM
What I'd give to have Upton. I think you're right in that there's very little chance he can be had, but it sure would be nice. I'm think we'd have to give them some major league talent, not just minor leaguers; though Hamilton and Corinco are likely at the top of anybody's Reds target list.

I would offer Stubbs or Heisey along with the three minor leaguers. Stubbs could help offset some of the payroll, especially going forward. I actually can't see the Diamondbacks rejecting that off-hand (maybe eventually, but they don't hang up instantly).

Benihana
06-07-2012, 02:57 PM
The Reds now have exactly two lefty hitters on the team (excluding pitchers).

The Reds now have a .309 team OBP.

These two issues can be corrected without trading away the team's top prospects. I wouldn't mortgage the future for Quenton or Upton or a similar player.

I would go for somewhat lesser players who hit lefty and get on base. I think two of them would do the trick. More power isn't a critical need, the Reds hit their share of long balls with the current cast.

Justin Upton's OBP is .340 this year, and that's by far the lowest it's been since he was a 19 year old rookie in 2007. In other words, if he can't dramatically increase the team's OBP, I don't know who can.

I'd "mortgage the future" for Upton, because I believe the Reds future would include multiple Pennants, if not World Series.

And I'd argue that deal wouldn't mortgage the future, as the Reds would still have three SP in AA worth monitoring, in addition to all the talent they now have in the rookie leagues from the last two drafts. And three of their top five hitting prospects (Lutz, Rodriguez, Vidal). Plus, barring injury, they'd be set at every position on the diamond through 2015.

powersackers
06-07-2012, 03:01 PM
Justin Upton's OBP is .340 this year, and that's by far the lowest it's been since he was a 19 year old rookie in 2007. In other words, if he can't dramatically increase the team's OBP, I don't know who can.

I'd "mortgage the future" for Upton, because I believe the Reds future would include multiple Pennants, if not World Series.

And I'd argue that deal wouldn't mortgage the future, as the Reds would still have three SP in AA worth monitoring, in addition to all the talent they now have in the rookie leagues from the last two drafts. And three of their top five hitting prospects (Lutz, Rodriguez, Vidal). Plus, barring injury, they'd be set at every position on the diamond through 2015.

Lots of faith in Upton on this board. Sure he's a phenom and he's only 24. But he's doing worse than Ludwick this season in a lot of categories. Let's not go throwring Hamilton and Corcino's name around please...

westofyou
06-07-2012, 03:01 PM
Bruce for Upton is the only way you'll even get their attention, I watch a lot if DBack games and he's their savior

In short find a realistic target because Upton is not going anywhere, like Stanton, like Heyward, Trout and like Harper these guys are built around not traded for Stubbs and the Heisey's of the game

Benihana
06-07-2012, 03:03 PM
Bruce for Upton is the only way you'll even get their attention, I watch a lot if DBack games and he's their savior

In short find a realistic target because Upton is not going anywhere, like Stanton, like Heyward, Trout and like Harper these guys are built around not traded for Stubbs and the Heisey's of the game

Wouldn't you have said the same about Mat Latos six months ago?

A four player package that includes Hamilton and Corcino is in some ways similar to the package that was dealt for Latos. Except Upton is owed $45M while Latos makes the league minimum.

In the end you're probably right about him not going anywhere. But the purpose of this thread was to get BOLD. And Kendrick's comments this week opened the door of possibility, even if it's just a crack.

westofyou
06-07-2012, 03:07 PM
Wouldn't you have said the same about Mat Latos six months ago?

A four player package that includes Hamilton and Corcino is in some ways similar to the package that was dealt for Latos. Except Upton is owed $45M while Latos makes the league minimum.

In the end you're probably right about him not going anywhere. But the purpose of this thread was to get BOLD. And Kendrick's comments this week opened the door of possibility, even if it's just a crack.

No I wouldn't have said that about Latos

SD is not coming off a playoff year, they have ownership issues and offensive issues

Pitching is a strength in that park and they just dealt from that strength to get some much needed depth

Benihana
06-07-2012, 03:08 PM
No I wouldn't have said that about Latos

SD is not coming off a playoff year, they have ownership issues and offensive issues

Pitching is a strength in that park and they just dealt from that strength to get some much needed depth


Who's to say if the D-Backs are 20 games back at the deadline they don't blow the thing up and embark on a massive rebuild? They're already 9 back and we still have over a month until the ASB. Drew's gone at the end of the year, and the strength in the organization is the three young pitchers, two of whom are still a couple years away from really contributing.

Kc61
06-07-2012, 03:08 PM
Justin Upton's OBP is .340 this year, and that's by far the lowest it's been since he was a 19 year old rookie in 2007. In other words, if he can't dramatically increase the team's OBP, I don't know who can.

I'd "mortgage the future" for Upton, because I believe the Reds future would include multiple Pennants, if not World Series.

And I'd argue that deal wouldn't mortgage the future, as the Reds would still have three SP in AA worth monitoring, in addition to all the talent they now have in the rookie leagues from the last two drafts. And three of their top five hitting prospects (Lutz, Rodriguez, Vidal). Plus, barring injury, they'd be set at every position on the diamond through 2015.

There are mortgages and there are mortgages.

Would I give up a Stephenson (sight unseen) or a Cingrani as the main piece for Juston Upton? Yes.

Would I give up Corcino? Probably, if he's the main piece in the deal.

Would I give up Hamilton? No.

Would I give up three top prospects for Upton? No.

Would I give up two top prospects, not including Hamilton? Probably yes. And I'd include a Heisey as well, or a Soto, and/or various other players.

Would I rather trade lesser prospects to get lefty hitting OBP types instead of Upton? Yes.

Do I think the DBacks would accept the players I'm prepared to give them? No.

RedsManRick
06-07-2012, 03:23 PM
Lots of faith in Upton on this board. Sure he's a phenom and he's only 24. But he's doing worse than Ludwick this season in a lot of categories. Let's not go throwring Hamilton and Corcino's name around please...

I can't tell if this is meant to be sarcastic. If so, :beerme:

If not...

Upton is 4 months younger than Jay Bruce and has significantly out-performed him so far in their respective careers. He's averaged neraly 5 wins per season over the past 3 years. Upton's "poor" season so far has included him dealing with a hand injury.

If you asked around baseball, I bet more GMs would take Upton than would take Bruce. Hamilton and Corcino both have a less than 50% chance of becoming even league average players (this can be said about virtually any prospect in A or AA) -- and neither has Upton's upside. I think people are confusing just how awesome Hamilton's speed is aesthetically and in terms of SBs with how it's likely to translate in to real production at the major league level.

RedlegJake
06-07-2012, 03:27 PM
If I can have either 3.5 years of Justin Upton or the future of Corcino, Cingrani and Hamilton, please, send me the Upton deal every single time. Do you have any other proven superstar players you'd like to swap for three unproven low level minor league stars?

bucksfan2
06-07-2012, 03:32 PM
Who's to say if the D-Backs are 20 games back at the deadline they don't blow the thing up and embark on a massive rebuild? They're already 9 back and we still have over a month until the ASB. Drew's gone at the end of the year, and the strength in the organization is the three young pitchers, two of whom are still a couple years away from really contributing.

You rebuild with guys who are under your control for 3 more years at a reasonable rate. I think its completely unrealistic to think that the DBacks would trade him, if they did it would be a blockbuster that more often than not happens in the offseason.

If you were to trade for him I think it would start with Stubbs, Leake/Bailey, + 2 top tier prospects. Why would a team want both Stubbs and Heisey? The two are both very similar players.

Benihana
06-07-2012, 03:49 PM
You rebuild with guys who are under your control for 3 more years at a reasonable rate.
Or you trade those guys for the most return value in order to rebuild. Hence the Latos deal.


I think its completely unrealistic to think that the DBacks would trade him, if they did it would be a blockbuster that more often than not happens in the offseason.

If you were to trade for him I think it would start with Stubbs, Leake/Bailey, + 2 top tier prospects. Why would a team want both Stubbs and Heisey? The two are both very similar players.

No one suggested trading both Stubbs and Heisey - it was an either/or.

I agree that a trade like this happens in the offseason more often than not.

Interestingly, Upton sat out the last two games in a row.


I don't think Upton will be traded. As I said in the initial post, there is less than a 10% chance of it happening. But I do think it's an interesting scenario to consider, especially given the Reds' needs, Upton's struggles, and the recent criticism he has come under from his ownership (and apparently his manager in benching him).

westofyou
06-07-2012, 03:54 PM
From what I've read on Upton lately is that the managing general partner is upset with him and Drew while the GM and manager are not

Sounds like the managing General partner needs to check his comments at the door, he sounds like an arse

bucksfan2
06-07-2012, 03:58 PM
Or you trade those guys for the most return value in order to rebuild. Hence the Latos deal.

The Padres were an utter mess with holes everywhere. They traded Latos to rebuild. The DBacks are coming off of a division title, unless your the Marlins you don't operate like that.

powersackers
06-07-2012, 03:58 PM
I can't tell if this is meant to be sarcastic. If so, :beerme:

If not...

Upton is 4 months younger than Jay Bruce and has significantly out-performed him so far in their respective careers. He's averaged neraly 5 wins per season over the past 3 years. Upton's "poor" season so far has included him dealing with a hand injury.

If you asked around baseball, I bet more GMs would take Upton than would take Bruce. Hamilton and Corcino both have a less than 50% chance of becoming even league average players (this can be said about virtually any prospect in A or AA) -- and neither has Upton's upside. I think people are confusing just how awesome Hamilton's speed is aesthetically and in terms of SBs with how it's likely to translate in to real production at the major league level.

If were talking about 2012, I'm not being sarcastic. He may not help a ton this year. His value through 2016 is what you'd be banking on. And that is a good bet. But this year, bleh.

RedlegJake
06-07-2012, 04:06 PM
I'm not at all bold I guess. I'd still try to get DeJesus or Cabrera and call LF and Leadoff fixed. DeJesus would probably cost less and would be here for a couple years, Cabrera likely cost more and be a rental. Hence I'd prefer DeJesus. Nothing fancy or bold. Just veteran high OBP solid D reasonable cost.

_Sir_Charles_
06-07-2012, 04:20 PM
Mindful of the "trading within the division": Nyjer Morgan. Can reach base against righties, run. Might be a bad chemistry guy. Might be a good one.

I'd be STRONGLY against that move. I love the fact that we've built a team of high-character guys...this would quickly negate that IMO.

_Sir_Charles_
06-07-2012, 04:32 PM
I still think the best target is Shin-Soo Choo.

powersackers
06-07-2012, 04:47 PM
If I can have either 3.5 years of Justin Upton or the future of Corcino, Cingrani and Hamilton, please, send me the Upton deal every single time. Do you have any other proven superstar players you'd like to swap for three unproven low level minor league stars?

I'd agree with you, but I'm saying Justin Upton doesn't look like a SuperStar right now, through 212 plate appearances he looks weaker than Ryan Ludwick. So I don't do the deal.

I suppose you'll argue the other 2000 plate appearances justify it. They probably do, but are we trying to fix LF now or through 2015/16?

Benihana
06-07-2012, 04:50 PM
I'd agree with you, but I'm saying Justin Upton doesn't look like a SuperStar right now, through 212 plate appearances he looks weaker than Ryan Ludwick. So I don't do the deal.

I suppose you'll argue the other 2000 plate appearances justify it. They probably do, but are we trying to fix LF now or through 2015/16?
I'm confused, you are saying you like the tradeoff for 2013-2015, yet you're unsure about 2012? Doesn't Justin Upton add more to the Reds in 2012 than Hamilton and/or Corcino?

RedsManRick
06-07-2012, 04:53 PM
If were talking about 2012, I'm not being sarcastic. He may not help a ton this year. His value through 2016 is what you'd be banking on. And that is a good bet. But this year, bleh.

Luckily, we get his performance for the rest of the year, not what's he's done so far. He season to date is only relevant to the degree it helps us project the rest of his season. And unless unless he's still injured, I don't see reason to expect him to continue to underperform his career levels so drastically.

ZiPS, for example expects a .275/.361/.480 line the rest of the way (2.6 WAR).

REDREAD
06-07-2012, 04:56 PM
I still think the best target is Shin-Soo Choo.


It's a shame the Indians are contending though. That makes it harder for them to even talk about it. They are pretty thin in the OF, IIRC.

powersackers
06-07-2012, 05:00 PM
I'm confused, you are saying you like the tradeoff for 2013-2015, yet you're unsure about 2012? Doesn't Justin Upton add more to the Reds in 2012 than Hamilton and/or Corcino?

Of course he would offer more 2012 value than those two. But does he offer more than Ludwick?

What if we can get Quinten for less prospects? LF's fix for 2015 doesn't concern me now. Getting to the WS concerns me.

Rojo
06-07-2012, 05:03 PM
I'd be STRONGLY against that move. I love the fact that we've built a team of high-character guys...this would quickly negate that IMO.

Sometimes a jerk helps.

Benihana
06-07-2012, 05:06 PM
Of course he would offer more 2012 value than those two. But does he offer more than Ludwick?

What if we can get Quinten for less prospects? LF's fix for 2015 doesn't concern me now. Getting to the WS concerns me.

You are seriously questioning whether Justin Upton will offer more than Ryan Ludwick the rest of this season?

Getting to the WS in 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 concerns me. Is a potential dynasty worth top prospects? I think so.

powersackers
06-07-2012, 05:12 PM
You are seriously questioning whether Justin Upton will offer more than Ryan Ludwick the rest of this season?

Getting to the WS in 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 concerns me. Is a potential dynasty worth top prospects? I think so.

Yup, seriously questioning that. Something (wrist) is wrong with Upton and he's sat out the last two games, probably because he's TO'd at Management, so he's feigning an injury, or who knows... but something is wrong.

There's been very few dynasties in baseball history. And dynasties have to start somewhere. 2012 works for me.

WVRedsFan
06-07-2012, 05:40 PM
I think we are stuck with the roster we have. dusty seems pleased with Ludwick and Heisey, hoping they will come around. I don't look for any trades unless someone makes an offer the Reds can't refuse.

Playadlc
06-07-2012, 05:56 PM
Yup, seriously questioning that. Something (wrist) is wrong with Upton and he's sat out the last two games, probably because he's TO'd at Management, so he's feigning an injury, or who knows... but something is wrong.

There's been very few dynasties in baseball history. And dynasties have to start somewhere. 2012 works for me.

Gibson is sitting him out just to clear his head. Upton will be fine. I'm not worried about him at all.

westofyou
06-07-2012, 05:59 PM
Yup, seriously questioning that. Something (wrist) is wrong with Upton and he's sat out the last two games, probably because he's TO'd at Management, so he's feigning an injury, or who knows... but something is wrong.

There's been very few dynasties in baseball history. And dynasties have to start somewhere. 2012 works for me.

Actually he wants to play, Gibson wanted him to sit and get a clear head for a couple of games

Vottomatic
06-07-2012, 06:04 PM
Good thread with some good ideas. Probably coulda gone in the "Trade Targets" thread though.

Upton
Quentin
Dejesus
Cabrera
Choo

I like it.

Playadlc
06-07-2012, 06:07 PM
Would anyone here trade Cueto for Upton? Would the Diamondback even consider it?

camisadelgolf
06-07-2012, 06:11 PM
Gibson is sitting Upton to clear his head.

camisadelgolf
06-07-2012, 06:12 PM
Would anyone here trade Cueto for Upton? Would the Diamondback even consider it?
I'd do it in a heartbeat, but the Reds wouldn't even consider it.

powersackers
06-07-2012, 06:13 PM
Would anyone here trade Cueto for Upton? Would the Diamondback even consider it?

I wouldn't trade Cueto for anyone not named Verlander, Strasburg, Weaver or the like. And that'd be trading a TOR SP for a TOR SP.

Kc61
06-07-2012, 06:17 PM
I think we are stuck with the roster we have. dusty seems pleased with Ludwick and Heisey, hoping they will come around. I don't look for any trades unless someone makes an offer the Reds can't refuse.

I think the opposite. It's virtually certain to me that the Reds will add one hitter. I'd like them to add two (a platoon guy and a bench guy) but I feel strongly they will add one.

Walt isn't dumb, he sees the numbers, he understands the OBP is low, the team doesn't hit righties that well, and the left fielders aren't producing. And I don't know why you think Dusty is so happy with LF.

The problem this time of year is that teams demand the moon for good players. As the trade deadline approaches, the demands get more realistic. When that happens, the Reds will add somebody.

westofyou
06-07-2012, 06:20 PM
I think the opposite. It's virtually certain to me that the Reds will add one hitter. I'd like them to add two (a platoon guy and a bench guy) but I feel strongly they will add one.

Walt isn't dumb, he sees the numbers, he understands the OBP is low, the team doesn't hit righties that well, and the left fielders aren't producing. And I don't know why you think Dusty is so happy with LF.

The problem this time of year is that teams demand the moon for good players. As the trade deadline approaches, the demands get more realistic. When that happens, the Reds will add somebody.

It easy to blame Dusty

Of course he doesnt trade or make the roster, and he's tried almost everyone in LF with little success

So you see Dusty is happy with LF

It's proven!!

Vottomatic
06-07-2012, 06:21 PM
Agree. As more teams fall out of the race, the more options the Reds will have to trade for. Which hopefully will give them bargaining power to not give up so much.

camisadelgolf
06-07-2012, 06:29 PM
How many Reds players has Dusty publicly expressed displeasure with? It's just not his style. Judging by his comments, he may seem satisfied with his players, but he's smart enough to keep the issues internal. He also understands that the game is a business, which is why he's being asked to run Ludwick/Heisey. There's nothing he can do about it.

camisadelgolf
06-07-2012, 06:31 PM
If you think the Reds can trade for Upton, just remember this: there are probably fans on other message boards who think they could make a deal for Jay Bruce. It's not happening.

powersackers
06-07-2012, 06:56 PM
Jose Canseco at age 47 has a .346 OBP this year
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=cansec001jos

camisadelgolf
06-07-2012, 07:02 PM
Jose Canseco at age 47 has a .346 OBP this year
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=cansec001jos
It's nice to see that giving up pitching to focus on hitting has finally paid off for him. He also strikes out at a higher rate than anyone else on the team.

Benihana
06-08-2012, 08:40 AM
Would anyone here trade Cueto for Upton? Would the Diamondback even consider it?

I wouldn't. And I obviously really like Upton.

Big Klu
06-08-2012, 10:16 AM
I still think the best target is Shin-Soo Choo.

I don't understand why a club that is only 1 games out of first place (and has led their division for most of the season) would trade away their starting RF.

Tribe fans who I know are talking about adding players, not trading off veteran offensive leaders for prospects.

Vottomatic
06-08-2012, 03:42 PM
I don't understand why a club that is only 1 games out of first place (and has led their division for most of the season) would trade away their starting RF.

Tribe fans who I know are talking about adding players, not trading off veteran offensive leaders for prospects.

Agreed. For trade purposes, right now you have to look at non-contenders.

I would not trade Cueto for Upton, and I like Upton. I'd trade Corcino though.

buckeyenut
06-08-2012, 05:58 PM
I would be all for trading for DeJesus. I think he is a great fit for this team this year. But he is my backup plan. If I am going for it, I am going for Upton first. I'd give DBacks an offer of Upton for Heisey, their choice of Soto or Corcino, and their choice of two of Gregorius, Stephenson, Henry Rodriguez or Yorman Rodriguez. If they took ludwick instead of Heisey, I might go to Hamilton instead of Soto/Corcino.

Roy Tucker
06-08-2012, 07:31 PM
Nothing fancy or bold. Just veteran high OBP solid D reasonable cost.

This. Let's get some guys on base.

We don't seem to have a lot of trouble hitting HRs. We do seem to have trouble OBP'ing.

Dan
06-08-2012, 07:38 PM
Agreed that his recent tear helps the Pads asking price, but I would think his defensive limitations as well as his expiring contract put a ceiling on his trade value.



I wouldn't move Hamilton or Corcino for him, and I'd think long and hard before moving one of the other top three arms (Lotzkar, Cingrani, and Stephenson). Virtually anyone else in the system would be OK by me. Obviously this year's draftees aren't eligible to be dealt.

I would include both of them if Headley came with. Lotzkar is the easiest for me to part with. Lotzkar, Soto, Hamilton, Corcino for Quentin and Headley.

BP
Headley
Votto
Quentin
Bruce
Stubbs
Cozart
Mesigan

Crumbley
06-08-2012, 08:55 PM
Agree. As more teams fall out of the race, the more options the Reds will have to trade for. Which hopefully will give them bargaining power to not give up so much.
Wildcard play-in game means more teams will be hanging around the fringe, will only have the true cellar dwellers to deal with.

_Sir_Charles_
06-08-2012, 09:13 PM
I don't understand why a club that is only 1 games out of first place (and has led their division for most of the season) would trade away their starting RF.

Tribe fans who I know are talking about adding players, not trading off veteran offensive leaders for prospects.

Well, I didn't mean right now. I was talking about when they fall out of it (IF they fall out of it). I was more looking for a LONG TERM solution instead of a bargain basement rental that really does no more than shuffle the deck chairs.

DGullett35
06-08-2012, 09:44 PM
I understand that the price for the parts we need is extremely high right now and that we probably will not make a move until we are closer to the deadline. However we need to make a move now so we can keep this lead in the Central. Walt doesn't need to wait until we are 4 or 5 games back and looking up. Make the move now while we still have a lead and are able to increase that lead. David DeJesus and Chase Headley need to be on this roster or 2 guys of the same caliber. This team needs a guy that can hit 1st or 2nd in the order and a guy that has a high OBP plain and simple. Make the move now Walt before were looking up. I love this team to death but the offense is frustrating at times. Mainly the top of the order IMO. I love Cozart to death but hes a 2 hitter. Walt has done an amazing job with the staff and bullpen, now he needs to help out this lineup. Sorry but I had to vent, and it may only get worse as tomm. we face Verlander.

corkedbat
06-08-2012, 11:52 PM
Hey, I'd love to deal for Upton and I'd put up a prettu good price for him. If you're gone say Upton though, why not go all out and deal for Giancarlo Stanton.

As for more realistic targets?

01. Josh Willingham and/or Denard Spann from the Twins
02. Carlos Quentin and/or Chase Headley from the Padres
03. Shane Victorino from the Phillies (if they decide to move him)
04. Melky Cabrerra from the Giants
05. Buy low on LoMo from the Marlins
06. Choo Shin-Soo from the Indians
07. David DeJesus from the Cubs
08. Kevin Youkilis fron the Red Sox
09. Seth Smith from the A's
10. Martin Prado from the Braves
11. Dexter Fowler from the Rox
12. Adam Lind from the Blue Jays