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Blitz Dorsey
06-08-2012, 10:00 PM
That's Latos' ERA more than one-third of the way through the season. No bueno.

Johnny Footstool
06-08-2012, 10:03 PM
(brandishing machete) Let's get him!

Blitz Dorsey
06-08-2012, 10:06 PM
(brandishing machete) Let's get him!

Haha. No, no. Part of me still likes the trade. Just saying I've been somewhat disappointed thus far.

reds1869
06-08-2012, 10:41 PM
I have to say he looked pretty decent tonight even if the final line isn't spectacular. The number of ground balls he was able to induce are a positive sign; they just had eyes this evening. He has been disappointing but I still think he is a true #2 with ace potential moving forward.

redsfandan
06-08-2012, 10:57 PM
I have to say he looked pretty decent tonight even if the final line isn't spectacular. The number of ground balls he was able to induce are a positive sign; they just had eyes this evening. He has been disappointing but I still think he is a true #2 with ace potential moving forward.

Same here. There was a lot of talk about what the move from Petco to Great American would do to his stats. I fear that might've messed with his head a little. He's better than this.

Matt700wlw
06-08-2012, 11:23 PM
If he can quit hanging that curve ball, it will do wonders

WVRedsFan
06-08-2012, 11:28 PM
New team, smaller park, and what I consider a tough schedule. Add to that, a lot of bad luck. He will be OK. At least we didn't trade Frank Robinson for him.

WVRedsFan
06-09-2012, 12:36 AM
Just for the record, Volquez just completed a game in Milwaukee where he pitched 5, allowed 6 hits, 6 runs, walked 4. His ERA is at 3.94, mainly due to Petco, where it's much smaller. He also gave up 3 dingers in the process. Just posted this in the game thread, but it's obvious that we got the better part of the deal. Alonso was blocked at first (woefully obvious now) and prospects are just that. Mat will come around. Not so much for EV.

RedlegJake
06-09-2012, 12:56 AM
I think Latos may be struggling some because he is trying to change the way he pitches. I've watched him work the strike zone last year with the Padres, and this year. He is, it seems to me, trying to pitch to different spots than he did before when he had the benefit of Petco. Trying to get his fastball down and cut that curveball so it breaks lower in or just under the strike zone. I wonder if Mat may not be trying to rework himself into more of a groundball pitcher and rely less on high heat. The park may indeed have gotten in to his head but perhaps in a smart way that he's still perfecting his command of. What I saw tonight was a different pitching plan than what I've seen before and much more consistency down and busting that curveball into the dirt. He was a couple of seeing eye singles from a really fine game.

gilpdawg
06-09-2012, 01:12 AM
Was at the game tonight. Don't know how at looked on TV but I thought he deserved a better line tonight. They only hit 5 or 6 hard balls from what I could tell from the Moon Deck.

You probably could see me jump up in excitement/relief when Cabrera's ball died on the track in the 7th, if you knew who to look for.

mth123
06-09-2012, 05:42 AM
I think Latos may be struggling some because he is trying to change the way he pitches. I've watched him work the strike zone last year with the Padres, and this year. He is, it seems to me, trying to pitch to different spots than he did before when he had the benefit of Petco. Trying to get his fastball down and cut that curveball so it breaks lower in or just under the strike zone. I wonder if Mat may not be trying to rework himself into more of a groundball pitcher and rely less on high heat. The park may indeed have gotten in to his head but perhaps in a smart way that he's still perfecting his command of. What I saw tonight was a different pitching plan than what I've seen before and much more consistency down and busting that curveball into the dirt. He was a couple of seeing eye singles from a really fine game.

I think there is something to this.

Degenerate39
06-09-2012, 05:50 AM
We still got Dallas Latos out of that deal so we won that trade easily.

Blitz Dorsey
06-09-2012, 10:51 AM
BTW, Yonder Alonso is currently in extreme freefall mode. Average down to .256. Has 1 HR and 15 RBIs on the season. Average was .300 not that long ago.

I would do the trade over again, I'm just saying I expected a lot more from Latos. Then again, he's historically a slow starter, so hopefully he'll be much better down the stretch. There's a lot to like about him. His stuff. His age. The fact that the Reds control him through the 2015 season.

And just the fact that I don't have to look at Edinson Volquez any longer makes the trade good for me.

RedsManRick
06-09-2012, 10:54 AM
The announcers made a comment last night about how his seems to have trouble putting guys away. I certainly don't have any data on it, but it certainly seemed that way. Even poor hitters were fouling off 2 strike pitches with seeming ease. It also seemed like he had his own idea of what he wanted to do and wasn't seeing eye to eye with Hanigan. I wonder what the full story is.

WebScorpion
06-09-2012, 01:15 PM
Reminds me of a 2010 Homer Bailey...flashes of brilliance, but making a few critical mistakes each outing which usually cost him (and the Reds) the game. :( I think he'll grow. I just hope he matures quicker than Bailey did.

marcshoe
06-09-2012, 01:30 PM
I notice that his strikeout rate is down slightly and his walk rate up from the last couple of years. He has the stuff, and he's had success in the past. He may be pressing a bit now, feeling pressure because of the haul that was given for him (which, frankly, the Reds could afford to give) and the smaller park. As others have said, I think he pitched much better than the results indicate last night. I'm not sure if Cairo being at third contributed to some of the balls hit to the left side getting through, but the defense wasn't as good as it normally is.

Latos is a guy I've liked since his rookie year. I feel very good about having him on the team going forward; he's the real deal.

The Operator
06-09-2012, 09:11 PM
I notice that his strikeout rate is down slightly and his walk rate up from the last couple of years. .Probably the result of nibbling. I remember seeing him pitch for SD, he would attack the strike zone without fear. Now he tip toes around it trying to avoid giving up a homer. I think he needs to just relax and get used to GABP and he'll be fine. He's better than this, that's for sure.

The Operator
06-09-2012, 09:13 PM
It also seemed like he had his own idea of what he wanted to do and wasn't seeing eye to eye with Hanigan. There should be a $1000 fine for any pitcher ever disagreeing with Ryan Hanigan. He's a real life Crash Davis.

camisadelgolf
06-10-2012, 02:29 AM
It seems like people want to look at trades and pick which team won the deal. Despite how Jim Bowden did things, that's not the point of a trade. The point of a trade is to improve both teams. Short term and long term, both teams are better because of the trade imo. And if both teams feel like they got what they were looking for, it increases the likelihood that other teams are willing to make deals with them in the future.

Vottomatic
06-10-2012, 09:43 AM
I'm disappointed. Still glad we got him, but disappointed.

I remember looking at his splits before the trade, and his e.r.a. was about the same at Petco as on the road, which made me (and others) think it wasn't just Petco.

I thought Latos threw more in the 95 mph to 97 mph range. Either I was wrong, or he's lost some velocity on his fastball. I remember him being able to rear back and blow people away. Not so much this year though. But that can also be because his offspeed and breaking pitches aren't working. If a hitter is sitting on the fastball, much harder to blow it by him. If he can get his other pitches working for him, his effectiveness should come back.

I didn't mind trading what we traded because I thought we were getting a legit future #1 or current #2. He has looked anything but, which makes me NOW wonder about how much we gave up for him.

Alonso's lack of power this year makes the trade look better. I thought he'd hit 15 to 20 HR's, and he's looking like a 10 or less HR guy so far.

I'm still glad we got rid of the headcase Volquez. Unless he becomes a yearly Cy Young pitcher, I have no regrets.

Boxberger and Grandal may still make us wish we didn't trade them though.

nate
06-10-2012, 10:26 AM
I'm disappointed. Still glad we got him, but disappointed.

I remember looking at his splits before the trade, and his e.r.a. was about the same at Petco as on the road, which made me (and others) think it wasn't just Petco.

I thought Latos threw more in the 95 mph to 97 mph range. Either I was wrong, or he's lost some velocity on his fastball.

He never threw that hard. See here (http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.aspx?playerid=3815&position=P).

VR
06-10-2012, 11:35 AM
He hasn't lost a game in 8 weeks...so, there's that.

He certainly has been underwhelming to expectations. He's put together some very good stretches within games that show why they acquired him......but just hasn't gotten over the hump yet. I'm not worried, at all, to this point.

Caveat Emperor
06-10-2012, 05:16 PM
The announcers made a comment last night about how his seems to have trouble putting guys away. I certainly don't have any data on it, but it certainly seemed that way. Even poor hitters were fouling off 2 strike pitches with seeming ease. It also seemed like he had his own idea of what he wanted to do and wasn't seeing eye to eye with Hanigan. I wonder what the full story is.

Every Reds pitcher seems lost when they get up 2 strikes on a guy -- I've lost count of how many ABs I've seen get away from Reds pitching when the hitter is buried in the count at 0-2 or 1-2.

I'm clearly seeing a coaching or gameplan issue, IMO.

nate
06-10-2012, 10:34 PM
Every Reds pitcher seems lost when they get up 2 strikes on a guy -- I've lost count of how many ABs I've seen get away from Reds pitching when the hitter is buried in the count at 0-2 or 1-2.

I'm clearly seeing a coaching or gameplan issue, IMO.

Well...

With two strikes, the NL's OBP against is .243

With two strikes, the Reds OBP against is .260

Vottomatic
06-11-2012, 10:24 AM
He never threw that hard. See here (http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.aspx?playerid=3815&position=P).

Okay. Thanks.