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Kc61
06-13-2012, 04:30 PM
I don't know what to make of this player. He hustles. There's debate about his defense, but he is clearly excellent in LF and IMO decent in CF.

He's hitting .270, one of the higher BAs on the team. Yet he has a .305 OBP, has walked only 6 times in 159 at bats, and has a .670 OPS.

Earlier in his career, he hit righties a lot better than lefties. Last year, he had an .865 OPS against righties; a .553 against lefties. This year, the opposite: he has an .805 OPS against lefties, and a .637 against righties.

In 159 at bats, Heisey has 1 homer this year. Last season in 279 at bats, he had 18 homers.

Maybe he's still a victim of small sample size and it will just take longer and more consistent playing time to see what kind of player he is. Talented player, but there's no consistent pattern with him.

Thoughts?

reds44
06-13-2012, 04:38 PM
His splits before this year were a product of a small sample size more than anything. He hit lefties better in the minors too, IIRC.

I still think the Reds would be better if they could trade Stubbs for a legit LFer and play Heisey full time in CF. I don't think Heisey is better than Stubbs, but I think you'll get a lot more for Stubbs than Heisey.

PuffyPig
06-13-2012, 05:59 PM
His splits before this year were a product of a small sample size more than anything. He hit lefties better in the minors too, IIRC.

I still think the Reds would be better if they could trade Stubbs for a legit LFer and play Heisey full time in CF. I don't think Heisey is better than Stubbs, but I think you'll get a lot more for Stubbs than Heisey.

We are exceptionally short on OF.

If we trade for one, we need to keep the ones we have.

New LF/Stubbs/Heisey/Bruce/Ludwick looks so much better than we have now.

marcshoe
06-13-2012, 06:14 PM
The lack of power this year is what's been perplexing to me. I keep thinking that will change, but it's halfway through June.

Tom Servo
06-13-2012, 06:15 PM
Heisey's a good fourth outfielder.

nemesis
06-13-2012, 06:34 PM
Heisey's a good fourth outfielder.

Agreed.

Heisey is a important piece of this team.

He plays all 3 OF spots with above average D and could be put in any of them for a long period of time without much nail biting. Has a good not great arm. Is an excellent pinch hitter. Has more speed than his SB #'s show. Is an excellent clubhouse guy from what I hear. Has more power than his numbers are showing this year and will be very affordable for years to come.

He would be a very hard man for me to trade if I was Jocketty. LaMarre or Smith might be someone in the next couple of years who could fill his shoes, but until your sure they can, I really love him as the 4th OF.

DGullett35
06-13-2012, 06:57 PM
I agree that he is a good 4th OF. The problem is that we have 2 4th OF. Heisey and Ludwick. I also think that by the end of the year we will see his HR total be somewhat close to what we thought it should be. IMO I think it will sort of sneak up on us. . The guy has decent power, a very suitable replacement for Stubbs at the moment.

mth123
06-13-2012, 08:14 PM
We are exceptionally short on OF.

If we trade for one, we need to keep the ones we have.

New LF/Stubbs/Heisey/Bruce/Ludwick looks so much better than we have now.

Except with Rolen nearing a return, Frazier will take some of those ABs. If they can get a guy who should clearly play against RHP added to the mix, then one of Stubbs, Heisey, or Ludwick needs to go. There just won't be roster spots or PAs with Valdez, Cairo and the 2nd catcher taking 3 of the 5 bench spots.

My preference is to trade a minor leaguer or two for some one like Dejesus, Venable or some other platoon against RHP type and deal Ludwick for a PTBNL and salary relief, but if dealing Stubbs or Heisey instead allows the Reds to get something better for LF, then by all means, do it.

oneupper
06-13-2012, 11:29 PM
I like Heisey. He's an underdog.
We won't know what kind of player he is until he gets more ABs and Dusty isn't really that inclined to do so. In that sense he reminds me of Chris Denorfia, who is a useful player (.746 lifetime OPS with good D).
I'd keep Heisey and dump Ludwick (who never should have been signed) and/or trade Stubbs. Stubbs, IMO, has proven sufficiently that he cannot hit.
We could do better than Heisey? Sure, but we already have two OFs who are worse.

Kc61
06-14-2012, 12:09 AM
Only thing about Heisey that does seem clear is that he could walk more. He has 41 career walks in 703 plate appearances. Career OBP is .313.

icehole3
06-14-2012, 04:16 AM
Only thing about Heisey that does seem clear is that he could walk more. He has 41 career walks in 703 plate appearances. Career OBP is .313.

41 career walks in 703 plate appearances, isnt that Juan Francisco territory :)

lollipopcurve
06-14-2012, 06:58 AM
He's looking better. This is really the first time he's getting regular ABs. I'd withhold judgment for awhile.I like his all-around game and his hardnosed style, so I'm glad he's getting this shot.

cumberlandreds
06-14-2012, 07:53 AM
From what I am seeing of Heisey on an everyday basis is that I like him. He plays a good enough CF and his bat is starting to come around. At this point I would rather see him play than watch Stubbs strikout at least twice a game and totally refuse to cutdown on his swing with 2 strikes. This what I would do when Rolen comes back; Make Heisey the regular CF,play Frazier in LF and Stubbs the 4th Of. If Rolen continues where he left off before this latest DL time then put Frazier back at 3rd,Stubbs in CF and Heisey in LF. I'll send this idea right over to Dusty and I'm sure he will approve. ;)

REDREAD
06-15-2012, 05:05 PM
Except with Rolen nearing a return, Frazier will take some of those ABs. If they can get a guy who should clearly play against RHP added to the mix, then one of Stubbs, Heisey, or Ludwick needs to go. There just won't be roster spots or PAs with Valdez, Cairo and the 2nd catcher taking 3 of the 5 bench spots.

My preference is to trade a minor leaguer or two for some one like Dejesus, Venable or some other platoon against RHP type and deal Ludwick for a PTBNL and salary relief, but if dealing Stubbs or Heisey instead allows the Reds to get something better for LF, then by all means, do it.

While I'm open for an upgrade, I don't think any of the 4 OF needs to go.
Rolen comes back and displaces Negron (or maybe Stubbs goes on the DL, but eventually Negron goes).

Since Rolen got hurt, the 25th man on the roster has been a black hole (Negron, Constanzo).. IMO, Valdez is worth keeping. The bench will be a lot better when Rolen comes back.. if Frasier ends up seeing time in LF, then both Heisey and Ludwick are available off the bench.

Still a shortage of LH hitting, but Rolen coming off the DL will help us (hopefully he will hit adequately.. with his defense, he can hit at Ludwick/Hiesey levels if Frasier plays LF, then it's an upgradE).

RedsManRick
06-15-2012, 05:18 PM
The splits thing has been vastly overblown, based on what amounts to reading tea leaves in small samples. But in aggregate, we basically knew what kind of hitter he is. He's got pretty good power, but he won't hit for a ton of contact and won't work many walks. When you don't make a ton of contact and you're reliant on power (which by nature happens less frequently), you're a recipe for streakiness.

Last year we saw the upside of that streakiness -- HRs in bunches. This years we're seeing the downside. The "real" Heisey is that guy in the middle; one who hits about .260/.315/.435 and plays solid defense. Over the course of a season, you get decent production, but in shorter stretches, you roll the dice.

mth123
06-15-2012, 07:46 PM
While I'm open for an upgrade, I don't think any of the 4 OF needs to go.
Rolen comes back and displaces Negron (or maybe Stubbs goes on the DL, but eventually Negron goes).

Since Rolen got hurt, the 25th man on the roster has been a black hole (Negron, Constanzo).. IMO, Valdez is worth keeping. The bench will be a lot better when Rolen comes back.. if Frasier ends up seeing time in LF, then both Heisey and Ludwick are available off the bench.

Still a shortage of LH hitting, but Rolen coming off the DL will help us (hopefully he will hit adequately.. with his defense, he can hit at Ludwick/Hiesey levels if Frasier plays LF, then it's an upgradE).

I'm assuming that the Reds add a LH bat as the post I was responding too suggested. In that case, you'd need a spot for both the acquisition and Rolen. So Negron goes, but who else? I say Ludwick is the best guy to go (but I could be talked into Stubbs)

IMO, the need to acquire a lefty is pretty clear. Using .725 OPS as the line that separates adequate from inadequate, here is how things shake out:

Against LHP the guys on the adequate list (limiting to the main 13 position players so far): Frazier 1.049, Votto .998, Ludwick .952, Hanigan .878, Cozart .872, Stubbs .822, Cairo .818, Bruce .794, Heisey .780, Mesoraco .736 and Valdez .727. The inadequate list would be only Phillips .607 and Rolen .486. So against LHP, the Reds keep coming at you over and over with 11 of the 13 guys threats and the 2 that aren't have traditionally killed LHP.

OTOH, against RHP the adequate list is limited to Votto 1.214, Phillips .873, Bruce .854 and Frazier .848. Two of those are a bit iffy going forward. Frazier has a pretty big weakness on the ball running or breaking away to the outside part of the plate (i.e. a breaking ball from a RHP) and Phillips has traditionally struggled against RHP. I think the league will adjust to Frazier and just don't want to count too heavily on Phillips continuing to buck his career trends. The line-up is pretty thin against RHP.

The inadequate guys include Hanigan .693, Cozart .685, Mesoraco .675, Heisey .653, Ludwick .634, Stubbs .619, Rolen .566, Valdez .405 and Cairo .343.

Since they face RHP about two-thirds of the time, I think they need to even this out. It means adding a guy who hits against RHP and removing one of the redundant lefty killers. My vote is Ludwick since he's the most likely to have his PAs taken by Frazier when Rolen comes back.

dfs
06-16-2012, 09:53 AM
The lack of power this year is what's been perplexing to me. I keep thinking that will change, but it's halfway through June.

It's a game of adjustments. If Heisey ever starts to hit the curveball/slider, they will have to start throwing him fastballs over the plate again and his power will return.

Big if in that sentence.

mdccclxix
06-29-2012, 09:21 AM
I'm far from an expert on swings, but I remember last year looking at Heisey's, which I have always disliked. His hands are way up there. Well in my cursory look I found in 2010 his hands started into the plane of the swing later than in 2011. At the time I thought that was helping him avoid K's and make better contact. Anyway, this year his hands are way up there late again and that's my take on why he's taken a step back this year. It's probably something else. I think we all assumed he just pick right back up and keep hitting HR's all the time, but that is not the case at all. You have to wonder if he will adjust to how he's being pitched.

redsmetz
07-31-2012, 11:37 AM
I came across this interesting piece on Chris Heisey. Since this thread was already started, it seemed like a good place to put it. It talks about Heisey coming out of a D III school (one of only 7 players in MLB who have come from D III schools).

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2012/05/Heisey

Mario-Rijo
07-31-2012, 11:56 AM
Chris is one of my favorites because I can see good starter potential in him. The plate discipline and mechanics are a mess right now though. I think he is already very similar to a Scott Hairston type of guy (classic 4th OF) but I think there is potential in that swing if he can ever get it figured, ala Jose Bautista. He once was taught in the minors to get his foot down sooner and he blossomed, his timing is still off for one and he has a crazy loop in his swing. He and Bruce are very similar in their flaws and their talents IMO. Just seems to me that the hitting coach ought to be getting better out of both of these guys.

fearofpopvol1
09-22-2012, 06:53 PM
I like the way he plays the game. He's not a perfect player, but he plays hard and is fun to watch.