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View Full Version : 35 Years Ago: Seaver Traded to the Reds



redsmetz
06-16-2012, 11:37 AM
I said on FB sharing this blogpost, I still pinch myself that Seaver pitched for us for 6 seasons. Not sure it would have happened had the Blue trade not been negated by Bowie Kuhn, but can you imagine what a Reds rotation with Seaver & Blue together. And to think, we were a big money team then! And Seaver's lone no-hitter was with the Redlegs.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/15/35-years-ago-the-mets-traded-tom-seaver/?ref=baseball

http://www.sportsposterwarehouse.com/catImages/seaver79reds-1.jpg

westofyou
06-16-2012, 12:19 PM
Loved that feeling when they got him, it was ridiculous, the amount talent that team had (declining though)

RedsManRick
06-16-2012, 12:38 PM
Seaver never comes to mind when I think about great Reds pitchers. Just can't disassociate him with the Miracle Mets.

Unassisted
06-16-2012, 12:51 PM
And yet, the Reds never got farther than the NLCS in those 6 seasons. The last two were particularly bad, and they are the two that I remember the most. 'That's why I have mixed feelings about the Seaver Era.

Without digging into the history, I just generally know that the team shed payroll during that time, so I suspect Seaver came with some opportunity cost. In retrospect, it's probably a big part of why I don't get excited when the Reds commit a large chunk of their payroll to any player. :(

westofyou
06-16-2012, 01:01 PM
And yet, the Reds never got farther than the NLCS in those 6 seasons. The last two were particularly bad, and they are the two that I remember the most. 'That's why I have mixed feelings about the Seaver Era.

Without digging into the history, I just generally know that the team shed payroll during that time, so I suspect Seaver came with some opportunity cost. In retrospect, it's probably a big part of why I don't get excited when the Reds commit a large chunk of their payroll to any player. :(

Payroll wasn't being shed, the real issue was it wasn't being increased along with the norm in the game, plus the Reds refused to cater agents, or play the FA market.

Like the game everything ebbs and flows, the farm system stagnated and age arrived.


What the Reds got was not the Seaver of the Mets, they got an older Seaver... who moved from a pitchers park with grass to a hitters park with plastic turf. That has a lot to do with his game not being the same along with age.

But in the 6 years he was there he gave the team a workhorse and a guy that was top ten in batters faced with plus numbers.

Sure we'll always remember him as a Met, the press wrote that story for us, they reinforce it, the 69 team screams it. No one talks about Joe Morgan as an Astro or Giant (albeit he'll likely be on the 1982 bobblehead they are having on the 30th against the Reds)




ATIONAL LEAGUE
CAREER
1977-1982

INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria
NEUTRAL WINS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
NEUTRAL LOSSES displayed only--not a sorting criteria
ERA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria

BATTERS FACED BFP IP N_W N_L ERA
1 Phil Niekro 6937 1655.1 104 78 0.22
2 Steve Carlton 6354 1571 108 67 0.84
3 Steve Rogers 6063 1488 95 60 0.80
4 Joe Niekro 5532 1339 85 75 0.55
5 Don Sutton 5137 1270.2 74 60 0.57
6 Bob Forsch 5131 1241.2 69 68 0.07
7 Bob Knepper 5028 1185.1 64 64 0.08
8 Tom Seaver 4838 1181.2 73 58 0.51
9 Burt Hooton 4656 1141 70 49 0.68
10 Dick Ruthven 4562 1079.1 63 63 -.31

RedsfaninMT
06-16-2012, 01:07 PM
Only Reds game I ever taped was Seaver's no hitter. The recording was using my brand-spanking new casette recorder, and the quality was terribe. And some darned teenager (me) screaming when Marty made the no hitter official made it almost impossible to hear the final out - and Marty was very excited.

No, I did not have the expressed written consent of the Reds or Major League Baseball. Never played it for anyone else, and long since lost the tape, though if I still had it, I'd have no means of listening to it either. A casette tape? Even worse, an 8-track?

I was so sure that trade had set the Reds up for more Series wins. It just seemed like life was supposed to be that way. The Reds would be in the WS, and it would always be that way.

Just one more time in my lifetime would make me very happy.

vaticanplum
06-16-2012, 08:29 PM
Only Reds game I ever taped was Seaver's no hitter. The recording was using my brand-spanking new casette recorder, and the quality was terribe. And some darned teenager (me) screaming when Marty made the no hitter official made it almost impossible to hear the final out - and Marty was very excited.

I didn't realize this until a few years ago, but my mom went into labor at 7 pm on June 16, 1978, i.e., the exact time that game was beginning. I took a day and a half to be born, but I like to think I was so thrilled about the Reds even in the womb that it took Seaver's no-hitter to get me going :)

cumberlandreds
06-18-2012, 08:49 AM
One the most exciting days I can remember that didn't involve a Reds win. When they got Seaver I thought they had the divison rapped up. But that 1977 team just didn't have very much pitching at all. Borbon was the only reliable bullpen arm and he was used way too much. Like WOY said, Seaver was starting to decline too. He had to start transitioning from power pitcher to more of a finesse pitcher. He was still very good. In 1981 he went 14-2 and would have won the Cy Young award if not for Fernando Valenzuela's great year. I do still think of Seaver as a Met first but it sure was nice having him as a Red for a few seasons.

RedsBaron
06-18-2012, 10:35 AM
I said on FB sharing this blogpost, I still pinch myself that Seaver pitched for us for 6 seasons. Not sure it would have happened had the Blue trade not been negated by Bowie Kuhn, but can you imagine what a Reds rotation with Seaver & Blue together. And to think, we were a big money team then! And Seaver's lone no-hitter was with the Redlegs.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/15/35-years-ago-the-mets-traded-tom-seaver/?ref=baseball

http://www.sportsposterwarehouse.com/catImages/seaver79reds-1.jpg

The Seaver trade happened before Doofus Bowie Kuhn negated the acquisition of Vida Blue, as the Reds acquired Seaver in June 1977 and then traded for Blue after the 1977 season. Although Blue pitched poorly in 1979 he was still a very good pitcher in 1978. Had Kuhn not nixed the trade the 1978 Reds, with a rotation achored by Seaver and Blue, may very well have won the NL West. Had that happened, Dick "The Blade" Wagner may not have fired Sparky Anderson.
I still want to puke everytime I think about Kuhn being in the Hall of Fame. :barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf:

redsmetz
06-18-2012, 11:17 AM
The Seaver trade happened before Doofus Bowie Kuhn negated the acquisition of Vida Blue, as the Reds acquired Seaver in June 1977 and then traded for Blue after the 1977 season. Although Blue pitched poorly in 1979 he was still a very good pitcher in 1978. Had Kuhn not nixed the trade the 1978 Reds, with a rotation achored by Seaver and Blue, may very well have won the NL West. Had that happened, Dick "The Blade" Wagner may not have fired Sparky Anderson.

Thanks for fixing my historical error.

MikeS21
06-18-2012, 03:30 PM
I didn't realize this until a few years ago, but my mom went into labor at 7 pm on June 16, 1978, i.e., the exact time that game was beginning. I took a day and a half to be born, but I like to think I was so thrilled about the Reds even in the womb that it took Seaver's no-hitter to get me going :)
MERCY, that makes me feel old!

I was out of state and could NOT find a Reds' broadcast on the radio (and in those days, if you were anywhere east of the Mississippi River, you could usually find the Reds on radio) the night Seaver pitched his no hitter.

RedlegJake
06-18-2012, 05:02 PM
The Reds also could have had Mike Flanagan but he wouldn;t cut his sideburns so they traded him and he was in the running for a Cy Young award in Milwaukee winning 22 games or something like that. Their stubbornness about facial hair, refusal to deal with agents and Bowie Kuhn's command kept them from having a rotation of Tom Seaver, Don Gullett, Mike Flanagan, Gary Nolan, and Vida Blue!

westofyou
06-18-2012, 05:23 PM
The Reds also could have had Mike Flanagan but he wouldn;t cut his sideburns so they traded him and he was in the running for a Cy Young award in Milwaukee winning 22 games or something like that. Their stubbornness about facial hair, refusal to deal with agents and Bowie Kuhn's command kept them from having a rotation of Tom Seaver, Don Gullett, Mike Flanagan, Gary Nolan, and Vida Blue!

Caldwell is who you mean I believe

And he was a soft tosser who learned the wonders if the spitter from George Bamburger... Not that there is anything wrong with that,

George Anderson
06-18-2012, 05:27 PM
The Reds also could have had Mike Flanagan but he wouldn;t cut his sideburns so they traded him and he was in the running for a Cy Young award in Milwaukee winning 22 games or something like that. Their stubbornness about facial hair, refusal to deal with agents and Bowie Kuhn's command kept them from having a rotation of Tom Seaver, Don Gullett, Mike Flanagan, Gary Nolan, and Vida Blue!

Yea and imagine if Mr. Soto and Mrs. Soto met a few years earlier we could have had Mario in that rotation. Darn our luck!!!

Tony Cloninger
06-18-2012, 09:22 PM
Caldwell is who you mean I believe

And he was a soft tosser who learned the wonders if the spitter from George Bamburger... Not that there is anything wrong with that,

It was Caldwell. Sparky barely used him as reliever but he was decent.

I love Sparky and all but even if that was how it was done....the way he overused Borbon in 1977..... Borbon and Sarmiento in 1978 was criminal.

Big Klu
06-18-2012, 10:12 PM
The Reds also could have had Mike Flanagan but he wouldn;t cut his sideburns so they traded him and he was in the running for a Cy Young award in Milwaukee winning 22 games or something like that. Their stubbornness about facial hair, refusal to deal with agents and Bowie Kuhn's command kept them from having a rotation of Tom Seaver, Don Gullett, Mike Flanagan, Gary Nolan, and Vida Blue!

Nolan was traded to the Angels the same day that Caldwell was sent to the Brewers and Seaver was acquired from the Mets.

Also remember that the Reds once had Mario Soto and Joaquin Andujar in the organization at the same time. I have heard that there were some in the front office who did not want two fiery, emotional Dominicans on the same staff, so one of them had to go.

WVRedsFan
06-18-2012, 10:52 PM
I said on FB sharing this blogpost, I still pinch myself that Seaver pitched for us for 6 seasons. Not sure it would have happened had the Blue trade not been negated by Bowie Kuhn, but can you imagine what a Reds rotation with Seaver & Blue together. And to think, we were a big money team then! And Seaver's lone no-hitter was with the Redlegs.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/15/35-years-ago-the-mets-traded-tom-seaver/?ref=baseball

http://www.sportsposterwarehouse.com/catImages/seaver79reds-1.jpg
Folks around here are probably tired of hearing about me being atRiverfront for his no-no, but it's one of the highlights I will never forget.

WVRedsFan
06-18-2012, 11:09 PM
Double post.

Revering4Blue
06-19-2012, 04:28 PM
Nolan was traded to the Angels the same day that Caldwell was sent to the Brewers and Seaver was acquired from the Mets.

Also remember that the Reds once had Mario Soto and Joaquin Andujar in the organization at the same time. I have heard that there were some in the front office who did not want two fiery, emotional Dominicans on the same staff, so one of them had to go.

It's also worth noting that Nolan was traded following the conclusion of a slug fest in which he started and lasted only one third of an inning. Nolan never won another game in the majors. I've always associated the sad demise of Gary Nolan's career with the Seaver deal, which makes it seem bittersweet to me. Nevertheless, the Seaver deal should go down as one of Howsam's best deals--acquiring Seaver for what amounted to spare parts.

Revering4Blue
06-19-2012, 04:47 PM
Folks around here are probably tired of hearing about me being atRiverfront for his no-no, but it's one of the highlights I will never forget.

Not a chance, at least from my end.

I can't top your experience, but I witnessed in person Seaver throwing a complete game and scoring a run against the Padres as a 10 year old in 1977--on the day Elvis died.

westofyou
06-19-2012, 04:56 PM
Not a chance, at least from my end.

I can't top your experience, but I witnessed in person Seaver throwing a complete game and scoring a run against the Padres as a 10 year old in 1977--on the day Elvis died.

It was hot as hades that day

Yeah I'm old

redsmetz
06-19-2012, 06:41 PM
My one regret in my life as a fan is that I almost went to that game, then decided not to. Of course, had I, that might have changed things just enough that he wouldn't have thrown it. Karma and all that.