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View Full Version : Pitchers are cheating dogs?????



texasdave
06-20-2012, 10:04 AM
Is Tampa Bay Devil Rays manager Joe Maddon trying to tell us that every team in the majors has pitchers that are cheating dogs? It sure sounds that way to me. He clearly states that his pitcher was cheating and intimates that it is not uncommon at all.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/gameflash/2012/06/19/41500_recap.html?sct=hp_t2_a8&eref=sihp


"Joel is using pine tar and had pine tar in his glove," Maddon said. "I'm saying to suggest he's the only one that's doing it is inappropriate.""I promise you one thing," Maddon said, "you're going to see brand-new gloves throughout the major leagues starting tomorrow, with pitchers on every major league ball club."

RedsFanInBama
06-20-2012, 01:01 PM
I don't know if every team does, but I would be willing to bet it is pretty widespread.

MrRedLegger
06-20-2012, 05:44 PM
The more I think about this, the more it's starting to make sense to me.

The "steroid era" spans anywhere from 10-20 years, ending rather recently. During that time we saw hitters reach unthinkable numbers, producing offenses that were drawing very large crows. Everyone loves to watch a good slugger perform. Everyone, that is, except the pitcher.

There are some things in sports-however unfortunate-that will always exist whether they are detected or not in order to acheive an edge. For example, PEDs, college recruiting, stealing signs, flopping in basketball and soccer come to mind. Possibly, there is one thing that has gone more undetected than we think, and that is the pitcher increasing his edge. (again, possibly increased by trying to get these superstars out at the plate) Pine tar, spit balls, vaseline, nail files, you name it. And if you're not getting caught or punished (wink wink, Jose Valverde), there's not much else that is going to stop you from doing it again. (Thank the Lord that he was spotted and the Red Flag was raised) I don't think everyone in baseball is doing it, but I do think that enough are doing it and the ones that do are damn good at hiding it. Some are even ballsy enough to do it in a World Series (Kenny Rogers, 2006).

Its undisputed that pitching has gotten better in baseball. There even was a discussion about it a few days ago. But this issue wasn't talked about mainly people we didn't know we needed to. I would have more examples but they're just too good at hiding it and have not been exposed yet.

Again, in no way do I believe that all or most pitchers use dirty practices of this sort. I'm just revealing the possibilty that it could be in our game more than we think.

And it's getting into the rivers and into our water supply and endangering our children and crops!

texasdave
06-20-2012, 05:50 PM
Okay this is a random thought. Say a pitcher 'doctors' the ball in some way and it is hit to a fielder. When the fielder throws it -say to first or in from the outfield - is the ball gonna curve away from the intended target because it has been 'doctored'? I would guess yes.

MrRedLegger
06-20-2012, 06:02 PM
Okay this is a random thought. Say a pitcher 'doctors' the ball in some way and it is hit to a fielder. When the fielder throws it -say to first or in from the outfield - is the ball gonna curve away from the intended target because it has been 'doctored'? I would guess yes.

Maybe apart from a huge crow-hop to home kinda throw or some freak accident throw, it doesn't seem like the ball would have enough velocity/rotation for the 'doctoring' to take effect.

For example, a ball with a foreign substance moves its center of mass off from the centroid by just a bit (although it's not part of the ball, the two can be considered one because it is attached). In effect, its center of gravity is affected. This will change the inertia of the ball which will resultantly affect the ball's travel path but only at high RPM's (an exaggerated example of this instance would be filling a water bottle a quarter full and trying to flip it). Also, the 'doctoring' can affect the frictional forces between the ball and the air but again it would need high velocity and rotation in order for any effect to be noticeable.

I'd say that a fielder cannot throw as fast as a pitcher nor do they want to put as much rotation on the ball as a pitcher. And if the ball is fielded, that means it's rubbed across a bat and dirt and/or grass and all foreign elements have mostly been wiped away. Chances are that when a fielder throws a doctored ball, the changes are negligible.

texasdave
06-20-2012, 07:21 PM
Maybe apart from a huge crow-hop to home kinda throw or some freak accident throw, it doesn't seem like the ball would have enough velocity/rotation for the 'doctoring' to take effect.

For example, a ball with a foreign substance moves its center of mass off from the centroid by just a bit (although it's not part of the ball, the two can be considered one because it is attached). In effect, its center of gravity is affected. This will change the inertia of the ball which will resultantly affect the ball's travel path but only at high RPM's (an exaggerated example of this instance would be filling a water bottle a quarter full and trying to flip it). Also, the 'doctoring' can affect the frictional forces between the ball and the air but again it would need high velocity and rotation in order for any effect to be noticeable.

I'd say that a fielder cannot throw as fast as a pitcher nor do they want to put as much rotation on the ball as a pitcher. And if the ball is fielded, that means it's rubbed across a bat and dirt and/or grass and all foreign elements have mostly been wiped away. Chances are that when a fielder throws a doctored ball, the changes are negligible.

Makes sense. Thanks.

bigredmechanism
06-20-2012, 08:07 PM
Maybe apart from a huge crow-hop to home kinda throw or some freak accident throw, it doesn't seem like the ball would have enough velocity/rotation for the 'doctoring' to take effect.

For example, a ball with a foreign substance moves its center of mass off from the centroid by just a bit (although it's not part of the ball, the two can be considered one because it is attached). In effect, its center of gravity is affected. This will change the inertia of the ball which will resultantly affect the ball's travel path but only at high RPM's (an exaggerated example of this instance would be filling a water bottle a quarter full and trying to flip it). Also, the 'doctoring' can affect the frictional forces between the ball and the air but again it would need high velocity and rotation in order for any effect to be noticeable.

I'd say that a fielder cannot throw as fast as a pitcher nor do they want to put as much rotation on the ball as a pitcher. And if the ball is fielded, that means it's rubbed across a bat and dirt and/or grass and all foreign elements have mostly been wiped away. Chances are that when a fielder throws a doctored ball, the changes are negligible.

That was a quality answer. I had wondered the same question at one point. Cheers.:beerme: