Sometimes you gotta take your fan hat off, and sit your koolaid down....

[ShaySongz]

Sometimes you gotta take your fan hat off and sit the koolaid down and ask yourself this question..with perspective. Do you honestly believe this pitching staff could shut a playoff team down, in the playoffs? Seven game series Do you think this team can manufactur runs against playoff (more than likely) all star,CY young candidate pitching? I'm a true born and raised reds fan i'm absolutely worried, indians staff is middle of the road, offense full of no name hitters, losing 4-6 to Buckos, CUETO you can pencil him in a win, almost every time, close to betting my life on it..but everyone else no chance in hell I would hold my breathe.

[UPRedsFan]

Sometimes you gotta take your fan hat off and sit the koolaid down and ask yourself this question..with perspective. Do you honestly believe this pitching staff could shut a playoff team down, in the playoffs? Seven game series Do you think this team can manufactur runs against playoff (more than likely) all star,CY young candidate pitching? I'm a true born and raised reds fan i'm absolutely worried, indians staff is middle of the road, offense full of no name hitters, losing 4-6 to Buckos, CUETO you can pencil him in a win, almost every time, close to betting my life on it..but everyone else no chance in hell I would hold my breathe.

I will continue to believe Bailey can shut any team down in October and Latos will turn it around and have some dominant games in the 2nd half. Especially given the strength of the bullpen those 2 with Cueto are capable of producing a series win in the playoffs. The offense I'm not so confident about. Here's to hoping Walt can find a way to get a table setter on the roster by the trade deadline.

[brm7675]

Let's get there and have that worry...

[miamiredskin]

Let's face it...we are looking at another Philly-style shellacking, if we manage to hold off the Pirates.

Chappy may not even make it to September, let alone the play-offs. How many more DL stints does Scotty have in him this year? Not sure if Stubby being out helps us or hurts us. Jay is due for another good week or 2 this year, but this team needs a hell of a lot more than that.

Hanny has played great ball, but is likely to tail off towards his mean a bit, which is still solid for an 8/9 hitter, but we need more considering the guys in front of him can't hit and the guys at the top of the order are shut down several times a week.

Bullpen was great, but now is taking on water. Starting pitching features a 9-run per outing guy and and 85 mph gopher machine.

Add in the worst tactical manager in the bigs, and the Reds have a very low ceiling. Enjoy leading the inept sluggards of the Central Division while it lasts.

[MBZags]

I will continue to believe Bailey can shut any team down in October and Latos will turn it around and have some dominant games in the 2nd half. Especially given the strength of the bullpen those 2 with Cueto are capable of producing a series win in the playoffs. The offense I'm not so confident about. Here's to hoping Walt can find a way to get a table setter on the roster by the trade deadline.

Theoretically, I think you're right that Bailey could shut down any team in October because he has the stuff to do so. Practically, though, while Bailey has been pretty solid so far this season, he really hasn't shown that he can be relied upon in any given start. And his peripherals aren't indicative of a guy who can absolutely lock up hitters.

In response to the original post, it's undoubtedly true that Cueto can be relied upon by this team. He may not have much playoff experience (one game), but he has pitched in big games and shown his ability to be flat out dominant against good teams. This year, he likely isn't as good as his current stats show. He has been helped by an unsustainable 81.5% LOB%, but he's nonetheless a quality #1 at this point.

If the playoffs were to start today, I'd honestly throw Arroyo out there as the Reds number #2. He's a veteran who isn't going to lose his cool in pressure situations; the same really can't be said of Latos right now. I don't trust Latos; I'm not sure why anyone would right now. Granted, though, Arroyo isn't an ideal #2, but out of the four remaining SPs, he's the most reliable.

As far as depth, the staff may be one of the best rotations in the league. Unfortunately, that only matters in the regular season, and I would be much more comfortable if the Reds had another pitcher like Cueto. Hopefully, Latos can turn it around and start to round back into Padres form. His numbers show that he hasn't been egregiously unlucky, and he needs to reign in his control and his emotions. If Latos can return to his dominant form, I would be much more comfortable with the rotation in the postseason.

Potentially, Chapman could be thrown into the rotation later in the year, and the best case scenario is that he ends up pitching as a solid #2 behind Cueto. But in order to do that, Chapman needs to continue to develop his slider and changeup, which is unlikely to happen while he's in the bullpen. Additionally, no one really knows how Chapman will fare as a starter, given a complete lack of MLB experience in that role.

[Stray]

I don't think it's worth worrying about right now. Outside of the Nationals pitching staff, I'd put ours up against anyone in the NL and feel good about our chances. I wouldn't read into what happened in Cleveland too much. We've played and beat a lot of playoff caliber teams all season long.

And plus, anymore it's not even about who is the best, it's more about who gets hot at the end of the season.

[ShaySongz]

I don't think it's worth worrying about right now. Outside of the Nationals pitching staff, I'd put ours up against anyone in the NL and feel good about our chances. I wouldn't read into what happened in Cleveland too much. We've played and beat a lot of playoff caliber teams all season long.

And plus, anymore it's not even about who is the best, it's more about who gets hot at the end of the season.

your forgetting the best team in the National League. Dodgers and San Francisco if their pitchers pitch to their potential. Also these teams have the money and prospects to pull off a trade at the deadline. The Reds don't have the money to take on another contract or the prospects to make a deal. That also worries me. Yes our pitching staff has DEPTH..so did the 2010 Team. We all know what happened in the playoffs. You have to have Two hammers (at least) in the playoffs, also the would have to pitch off at least three days rest you trying to pitch them twice in a seven game series. So people on here say Don't worry its early. Alot of should,could, would with this fan base. You can run your team on if everything breaks right at the right time. Arroyo is what he is...read the back of his baseball card. A career .500 Pitcher. that tops out at 85mph in the smallest ballpark of this side of the Mississippi.

[dubc47834]

Let's face it...we are looking at another Philly-style shellacking, if we manage to hold off the Pirates.

Chappy may not even make it to September, let alone the play-offs. How many more DL stints does Scotty have in him this year? Not sure if Stubby being out helps us or hurts us. Jay is due for another good week or 2 this year, but this team needs a hell of a lot more than that.

Hanny has played great ball, but is likely to tail off towards his mean a bit, which is still solid for an 8/9 hitter, but we need more considering the guys in front of him can't hit and the guys at the top of the order are shut down several times a week.

Bullpen was great, but now is taking on water. Starting pitching features a 9-run per outing guy and and 85 mph gopher machine.

Add in the worst tactical manager in the bigs, and the Reds have a very low ceiling. Enjoy leading the inept sluggards of the Central Division while it lasts.
Look...we ran into a Philly team in 2010 that had one of the best pitching rotations EVER. There is no team this year that has a pitching staff like that. While the last few games has been disappointing, we have played very well against contending teams, so Im not too worried right now. If we are still playing this way in a month, I'll get worried.

[Stray]

your forgetting the best team in the National League. Dodgers and San Francisco if their pitchers pitch to their potential. Also these teams have the money and prospects to pull off a trade at the deadline. The Reds don't have the money to take on another contract or the prospects to make a deal. That also worries me. Yes our pitching staff has DEPTH..so did the 2010 Team. We all know what happened in the playoffs. You have to have Two hammers (at least) in the playoffs, also the would have to pitch off at least three days rest you trying to pitch them twice in a seven game series. So people on here say Don't worry its early. Alot of should,could, would with this fan base. You can run your team on if everything breaks right at the right time. Arroyo is what he is...read the back of his baseball card. A career .500 Pitcher. that tops out at 85mph in the smallest ballpark of this side of the Mississippi.

I think the biggest difference between this year's team and the 2010 team is Johnny Cueto and our bullpen. I'm not saying we have the 2nd best rotation in the league, I think our bullpen can get anyone out though. Comparing our entire pitching staff to what the Cardinals won the WS with last year, it's not like they totally outclassed us.

You gotta get there first, and hopefully you're one of those teams who are hot at the right time.

[P.E.R#14]

Look...we ran into a Philly team in 2010 that had one of the best pitching rotations EVER. There is no team this year that has a pitching staff like that. While the last few games has been disappointing, we have played very well against contending teams, so Im not too worried right now. If we are still playing this way in a month, I'll get worried.

You'll be concerned if we're wininng 6 of 9 or getting swept? We could have won each series (2-1) against CLE, NYM and CLE and had the same record and people would be happy. Same record in the last nine.... :confused:

[dubc47834]

You'll be concerned if we're wininng 6 of 9 or getting swept? We could have won each series (2-1) against CLE, NYM and CLE and had the same record and people would be happy. Same record in the last nine.... :confused:

Of course I wouldn't be worried. I'm not a sky is falling guy man. I shoulda been more specific, meaning the way we played this series. I'm happy with the way this team has played so far this year. Sure, the bats could pick it up some, but overall I am pleased. We are a 1st place team in mid/late June.

[swaisuc]

Look...we ran into a Philly team in 2010 that had one of the best pitching rotations EVER. There is no team this year that has a pitching staff like that. While the last few games has been disappointing, we have played very well against contending teams, so Im not too worried right now. If we are still playing this way in a month, I'll get worried.

Definitely true. When you talk about things in theory with phrases like "playoff teams" and "October baseball" it sounds rather intimidating. If you compare our team to the actual competition for 2012, not so much. We're as good as any of the other NL teams right now IMO and we're not even playing our best baseball.

[miamiredskin]

Look...we ran into a Philly team in 2010 that had one of the best pitching rotations EVER. There is no team this year that has a pitching staff like that. While the last few games has been disappointing, we have played very well against contending teams, so Im not too worried right now. If we are still playing this way in a month, I'll get worried.



What happens if a contender picks up Maholm, Samardzja or Masterson?

We have far too many undisciplined hitters that need belt-high fastballs in order to succeed. Who on this team is a better hitter than he was 2 years ago? Heisey? Stubbs? Bruce? BP? Rolen? Cairo? Hannigan, perhaps.

We lost one of the few professional hitters we had from that team when Hernandez left. I realize we had to go with Mes, but who would you rather have up in a clutch situation this October?

[dubc47834]

What happens if a contender picks up Maholm, Samardzja or Masterson?

We have far too many undisciplined hitters that need belt-high fastballs in order to succeed. Who on this team is a better hitter than he was 2 years ago? Heisey? Stubbs? Bruce? BP? Rolen? Cairo? Hannigan, perhaps.

We lost one of the few professional hitters we had from that team when Hernandez left. I realize we had to go with Mes, but who would you rather have up in a clutch situation this October?

Two of those guys are on teams that will at least be contending for a wild card spot. Samardzja is untouchable if you ask Cubs brass. I know what you're getting at tho. There is only 1 rotation in baseball I am concerned about having a repeat of 2010 with, and thats the Nationals. As far as hitters, I would say that Heisey and Hannigan are definately better, BP is still just as good(which is REALLY GOOD), and we all know that it depends on what month you catch Bruce. Sure Rolen and Cairo have fell off, but with Rolen that with probly work itself out by playoff time because he may or may not be healthy.

I think Hernandez leaving does hurt some, but everyone knew he wasn't staying because they thought Mes was ready. I have no problem with Hernandez being let go. The bats are strugglin right now. One thing I haven't heard anyone say when defending this team is, we are consistanly playing 3 rookies, there will be struggles when that happens. Cozart has played good defense but his bat has been inconsistant. Frazier's bat has been pretty good, not great, but the glove has been inconsistant. Mes has been inconsistant with his whole game, he has shown flashes of greatness with both tho.

I'm happy with this team and come the trade deadline would like to see a true #4 hitter aquired(unlikely) or some good bench depth.

:beerme::beerme:

[Larkin88]

What happens if a contender picks up Maholm, Samardzja or Masterson?

We have far too many undisciplined hitters that need belt-high fastballs in order to succeed. Who on this team is a better hitter than he was 2 years ago? Heisey? Stubbs? Bruce? BP? Rolen? Cairo? Hannigan, perhaps.

We lost one of the few professional hitters we had from that team when Hernandez left. I realize we had to go with Mes, but who would you rather have up in a clutch situation this October?

I would argue yes on Bruce, Hanigan and BP. Push on Heisey and Stubbs. Rolen and Cairo have declined... although in Cairo's case, I think he sort of played beyond himself to a degree in big moments the last few years.

I feel like mid to top of rotation pitchers are only going to get picked up by teams that have a glaring need either in terms or injuries or underproduction. Some of those names you listed are particularly bad matchups for the Reds and all their righties, sure. But a team that's top five in pitching isn't likely going to put together a big trade package (which it would take for those guys) for another pitcher to elevate themselves quite to Philadelphia 2010 levels. The Nationals or Giants maybe could if they wanted to and Lincecum turned back into his old self.

Nonetheless, your points about the offense are well noted. Nice to see flashes of them putting it together, but the construction of the lineup is why I fear we'll never see a ton of consistency on that side of the ball.

[swaisuc]

What happens if a contender picks up Maholm, Samardzja or Masterson?

We have far too many undisciplined hitters that need belt-high fastballs in order to succeed. Who on this team is a better hitter than he was 2 years ago? Heisey? Stubbs? Bruce? BP? Rolen? Cairo? Hannigan, perhaps.
We lost one of the few professional hitters we had from that team when Hernandez left. I realize we had to go with Mes, but who would you rather have up in a clutch situation this October?

While I understand your point, I would take my chances with 2010's lineup against this year's opponents as well.

Oh, and Cozart is one upgrade if you're looking for one.

[Kingspoint]

I will continue to believe Bailey can shut any team down in October and Latos will turn it around and have some dominant games in the 2nd half. Especially given the strength of the bullpen those 2 with Cueto are capable of producing a series win in the playoffs. The offense I'm not so confident about. Here's to hoping Walt can find a way to get a table setter on the roster by the trade deadline.Really, baseball's not that difficult to understand and gets over-analyed to death, and in just a few sentences you summed up the 2012 season perfectly.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Sometimes you gotta take your fan hat off and sit the koolaid down and ask yourself this question..with perspective. Do you honestly believe this pitching staff could shut a playoff team down, in the playoffs? Seven game series Do you think this team can manufactur runs against playoff (more than likely) all star,CY young candidate pitching? I'm a true born and raised reds fan i'm absolutely worried, indians staff is middle of the road, offense full of no name hitters, losing 4-6 to Buckos, CUETO you can pencil him in a win, almost every time, close to betting my life on it..but everyone else no chance in hell I would hold my breathe.

Reds pitching won't be the issue. They'll have a enough pitching to keep it close against anyone in the playoffs. What they won't have is a lineup capable of scoring against any elite pitching staff.

[Falcon7]

Reds pitching won't be the issue. They'll have a enough pitching to keep it close against anyone in the playoffs. What they won't have is a lineup capable of scoring against any elite pitching staff.

^^ Very very true!