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Kc61
06-24-2012, 04:56 PM
Can't be Chapman. Reds could go to Marshall again although he did struggle in that spot. Maybe at this point Marshall would handle it better, he's been superb setting up.

Arredondo walks too many but has a 1.01 WHIP. Could be him too. I don't see any other candidates.

Have to make a change. Can't keep having Aroldis give up the game.

Tom Servo
06-24-2012, 04:57 PM
Marshall.

Vottomatic
06-24-2012, 05:01 PM
Geez. Go with closer by committee and stick with it. Go with the hot hand and win some games instead of being bullheaded and going with a guy who is struggling simply because you gave him the title "closer".

Superdude
06-24-2012, 05:01 PM
I still believe Marshall would've been fine back there and Chapman was used perfectly as the every other day stopper in tight spots. Maybe Chapman's deal is a fluke, but he hasn't acclimated well at all so far to closing, whether it be pressure or the fluctuating workloads.

reds1869
06-24-2012, 05:02 PM
I wish managers would scrap the idea of a closer. Pitch your best reliever in the highest leverage situation and be done with it. Today that happened to be the 9th but it often isn't.

_Sir_Charles_
06-24-2012, 05:04 PM
Can't be Chapman. Reds could go to Marshall again although he did struggle in that spot. Maybe at this point Marshall would handle it better, he's been superb setting up.

Arredondo walks too many but has a 1.01 WHIP. Could be him too. I don't see any other candidates.

Have to make a change. Can't keep having Aroldis give up the game.

Personally, I don't think Marshall "struggled" in that spot. I think he got extremely unlucky in that spot. IIRC he had like a 24-4 K/bb ratio at that point. He did allow 2 hr's, but the majority of the damage done against him was babip-damage. Pulling him from the closers role was a complete over-reaction on Dusty's part IMO.

Prior to the start of the season, the plan was to have Chapman starting. Either with the Reds or in Louisville. Now that Bray's back...why we're not going back to that plan is beyond me. We've got the relievers now to fill the void. Get Chapman back on the long-term track for goodness sake.

Brutus
06-24-2012, 05:06 PM
Why can't it be Chapman? Not that it matters, it will continue to be Chapman, I suspect, for the near future.

Kc61
06-24-2012, 05:09 PM
Why can't it be Chapman? Not that it matters, it will continue to be Chapman, I suspect, for the near future.

I don't know, seems to me he should work out his problems in a different spot. I hate to see a struggling pitcher work things out with the game on the line every time.

Lower the temperature on him, give him some easier outings, then you can always make him closer again.

Problem is I'm not sure of the alternative. Marshall seems more comfortable setting up. Arredondo walks lots of guys.

TheNext44
06-24-2012, 05:17 PM
Why can't it be Chapman? Not that it matters, it will continue to be Chapman, I suspect, for the near future.

I have a feeling you are correct. However, I hope the Reds send Chapman down to become a starter, and use Marshall as closer. It's clear he needs to develop more confidence in his secondary pitches.

DGullett35
06-24-2012, 05:18 PM
Let Marshall close for now. Chapman needs to adjust because the hitters hes facing certainly have. Maybe Walt has to go out and get someone. I dunno but these last six games have been frustrating to watch. Should of would of could of but IMO we should have been 4-2 in these last 6.

WVRedsFan
06-24-2012, 05:38 PM
And since Dusty is the manager and with his comments after the game saying closing was Chappys job, it will be Chapman.

cincrazy
06-24-2012, 05:40 PM
I know I'm in the minority, but I think Chapman will be fine. This week was a hiccup. Let's not snowball the thing mentally for him by yanking him out of the role after a rough week. In the future, have someone ready to go just in case he struggles again. But give him another shot. The guy will be fine.

ddrone
06-24-2012, 05:42 PM
I think I would like to check out simon in the closers role.Tried marshall,who seems comfortable in his role now.Chapman, I believe has some issue.Either mental over his recent troubles,or his back is ailing him more then we know.
Either way,running him out there aint doing him or the team any good.Its almost like 2010 again,where he looked really good,then lost command and had a brief stay in the minors.
However you want to cut it,I'am done with chapman for a while.

cincrazy
06-24-2012, 05:51 PM
I think I would like to check out simon in the closers role.Tried marshall,who seems comfortable in his role now.Chapman, I believe has some issue.Either mental over his recent troubles,or his back is ailing him more then we know.
Either way,running him out there aint doing him or the team any good.Its almost like 2010 again,where he looked really good,then lost command and had a brief stay in the minors.
However you want to cut it,I'am done with chapman for a while.

This guy was brought into an impossible situation on Sunday Night baseball against the Tigers. Top of their order coming up soon, bases loaded, no outs. And it's the EIGHTH inning for crying out loud. And lately, he's been beaten by two pretty good hitters. Cabrera and Willingham. He's not a robot. He's human.

alloverjr
06-24-2012, 05:56 PM
I know I'm in the minority, but I think Chapman will be fine. This week was a hiccup. Let's not snowball the thing mentally for him by yanking him out of the role after a rough week. In the future, have someone ready to go just in case he struggles again. But give him another shot. The guy will be fine.

He came in to the game 0-4 in his last 6 with an ERA over 10. Obviously that only gets worse after today. I don't like the idea of closer, and for a bit Dusty was managing the bullpen like he didn't have one, using guys in various and variable spots. But if he really needs one, it really can't be Chapman right now. Since he's been in the role he's seemed to lose his release on every pitch - more pitches in the dirt/high and away etc. Crap, I'd let Simon try a few.

LvJ
06-24-2012, 06:01 PM
Every closer on every baseball team has an ERA of 0.00, so none of our pitchers qualify.

lidspinner
06-24-2012, 06:15 PM
I wish managers would scrap the idea of a closer. Pitch your best reliever in the highest leverage situation and be done with it. Today that happened to be the 9th but it often isn't.

I have been preaching this in the sun deck for years....I have seen so many situations where the 8th inning is the most important yet your ace closer is sitting out in the pen watching runners circle the bases cause its not the 9th inning....bring your closer in to close an inning, and usually that could mean the game regardless of what inning it is.

The closer role is a players association created position that is there to provide more money to more players....it's a stat driven spot that is there for one pitcher per team and I hate it, I don't care if 5 pitchers combine for the save as long as we win. The save should be a pen wide stat, not a stat saved for one person who is pitching while the last out of the game is made.

edabbs44
06-24-2012, 07:31 PM
I know I'm in the minority, but I think Chapman will be fine. This week was a hiccup. Let's not snowball the thing mentally for him by yanking him out of the role after a rough week. In the future, have someone ready to go just in case he struggles again. But give him another shot. The guy will be fine.

Agree. He is ok, things might just be leveling out after pitching over his and everyone else in the history of the game's heads.

Benihana
06-24-2012, 08:30 PM
I thought the reason we weren't trying Chapman in the rotation was because he was so dominant out of the back end of the pen. The minute that stops being the case, he should be in the rotation.

I would give Chapman one more chance- if he blows another save before the ASB, I would let him spend July and August stretching out to start (in Louisville if need be). Then he could come back for the home stretch and playoffs as a starter (he would be nowhere near his IP limit, but Leake might be).

If he isn't ready to be a starter, let him finish the year in the minors. We'll have Masset back before long, and as was the case before the season started, Masset+Bray+Arredondo+Marshall should be more than enough to hold down the back end of most games. Chapman's future value to this club lies in his ability to start, especially now that he is suddenly no longer the shutdown closer he was for the first 10 weeks of the season.

One thing I'd be curious to see is how many of his blown saves have been with Mez behind the dish.

mth123
06-24-2012, 08:50 PM
Chapman moving to the set-up role and going 2 inning stints from now to the break may not be a bad plan. He can go down and get a start over the break and come back ready to go 5.

I wonder if Latos could close?;)

In all seriousness, I think he stays in the pen whether he closes or not.

RedEye
06-24-2012, 11:39 PM
I know I'm in the minority, but I think Chapman will be fine. This week was a hiccup. Let's not snowball the thing mentally for him by yanking him out of the role after a rough week. In the future, have someone ready to go just in case he struggles again. But give him another shot. The guy will be fine.

I don't understand why this same logic wasn't applied to Marshall in the first place.

cincrazy
06-24-2012, 11:53 PM
I don't understand why this same logic wasn't applied to Marshall in the first place.

That's a fair point. Marshall was fine. But I think Chapman's still a better option if we're not going to start him.

dougdirt
06-24-2012, 11:55 PM
I don't understand why this same logic wasn't applied to Marshall in the first place.

Because Dusty never thought Marshall was a closer in the first place, so given any signs that he was right, he yanked him. Chapman is the guy Dusty has been fighting for to be in the bullpen since the first day he saw him. Every time anyone has asked him about Chapman the only thing he has ever said is about the bullpen.

Kc61
06-25-2012, 01:16 AM
Because Dusty never thought Marshall was a closer in the first place, so given any signs that he was right, he yanked him. Chapman is the guy Dusty has been fighting for to be in the bullpen since the first day he saw him. Every time anyone has asked him about Chapman the only thing he has ever said is about the bullpen.

I wanted Marshall out of the closer spot, so did many on this board. He was getting hit hard in the closer spot. He might have improved there over time, maybe yes, maybe no. But to make it sound like some Dusty Baker frolic is unfair. He wasn't succeeding.

Unlike some, I believe in experienced closers. I heard all winter that it doesn't matter who you stick in the closer spot. Any good reliever supposedly can do it.

Not so in my book. An experienced closer knows how to handle the ninth inning. I believe it is a specialized role.

The Reds have one pitcher who has proven he can handle that role. His name is Ryan Madson. Unfortunately, he can't pitch this year.

There is no other ideal solution. So the Reds are engaging in trial and error. It's tough. There's nothing as gut wrenching as losing games in the ninth inning because a closer blows the lead.

I started a thread some weeks ago about Arredondo being the closer. Maybe they will try him next. But the Madson injury hurt any way you look at it.

jhu1321
06-25-2012, 08:55 AM
I still have no problem bringing Chapman in to close........ but he's got to work on secondary pitches. Every batter is simple sitting on fastball and the bat will not leave their shoulder until they see it.

RedsManRick
06-25-2012, 08:59 AM
If you guys are looking for a closer who never gives up runs, good luck. Pitch anybody in enough close games and he's going to blow a few. Chapman's last few weeks are no more a sign that he doesn't have "it" than the first few months of the season were signs that he does. Same with Marshall.

OldXOhio
06-25-2012, 09:07 AM
I wanted Marshall out of the closer spot, so did many on this board. He was getting hit hard in the closer spot. He might have improved there over time, maybe yes, maybe no. But to make it sound like some Dusty Baker frolic is unfair. He wasn't succeeding.

Unlike some, I believe in experienced closers. I heard all winter that it doesn't matter who you stick in the closer spot. Any good reliever supposedly can do it.

Not so in my book. An experienced closer knows how to handle the ninth inning. I believe it is a specialized role.

The Reds have one pitcher who has proven he can handle that role. His name is Ryan Madson. Unfortunately, he can't pitch this year.

There is no other ideal solution. So the Reds are engaging in trial and error. It's tough. There's nothing as gut wrenching as losing games in the ninth inning because a closer blows the lead.

I started a thread some weeks ago about Arredondo being the closer. Maybe they will try him next. But the Madson injury hurt any way you look at it.

I don't know how I feel about Arredondo in the closer's role, but he certainly doesn't meet the criteria you set forth in the opening of your post. He is neither experienced in that role, nor would I consider him to be specialized.

Kc61
06-25-2012, 11:03 AM
I don't know how I feel about Arredondo in the closer's role, but he certainly doesn't meet the criteria you set forth in the opening of your post. He is neither experienced in that role, nor would I consider him to be specialized.

I think my post was pretty clear that I don't think the Reds have an experienced closer. The only one, Madson, is injured.

Nobody on the staff meets the criteria.

As for Arredondo, he has the stuff, he is hard to hit, he's tough on lefties and righties. However, he walks too many guys. So he's not ideal either. And he isn't an experienced closer by any means.

Reds will have to work through this year and hope they find the best solution. I doubt they will bring in somebody new from the outside.

My guess, from reading all the press, is Chapman will try to make adjustments and remain closer for now.

lollipopcurve
06-25-2012, 11:30 AM
The Reds have good arms out there. They should be able to solve the problem with some deft management of late game situations and some flexibility. Note that two of the most successful teams in baseball this year have been finishing games with either an inexperienced closer (Jansen in LA) or a fluid situation (Washington). It can be done -- Cards were a wreck in the bullpen for most of last year.

When Chapman was originally installed as closer, it was said he'd work as part of a committee. Has not happened, as Dusty has locked onto him with his usual penchant for one-and-only-one closer -- note his repeated "who's better?" explanations. So, unless Chapman turns it around, the team will be back to square one, with no additional knowledge about who can perform well in the 9th.

I understand the move to Chapman. But it was always known he was not a guy who could handle lots of outings in a short span. The way to buffer that would have been to work others guys in. The necessity of that seems painfully obvious now. Whether Baker et al can pull it off is another matter.

Benihana
06-25-2012, 11:34 AM
I think between Marshall, Arredondo, Simon and Masset, one of those guys can step into the role. I'd like to see Chapman stretched out to start beginning immediately- and not because he just blew a couple saves this week.

Kc61
06-25-2012, 11:40 AM
I understand the move to Chapman. But it was always known he was not a guy who could handle lots of outings in a short span. The way to buffer that would have been to work others guys in. The necessity of that seems painfully obvious now. Whether Baker et al can pull it off is another matter.

Only response is that the problem has not been overwork for Chapman. He was extremely well rested yesterday.

Chapman has been the victim of the age old problem with inexperienced pitchers. The league scouts you and adjusts. The league has scouted Aroldis. They know his pattern. They have adjusted. He now has to change his pitching pattern to counter this adjustment.

The team can go by committee, but I guess on balance I'd just give Arredondo a chance to be the main closer or bring Marshall back for awhile. I would continue to use Aroldis prominently, but take the ninth inning pressure off him for awhile.

I doubt any change will actually be made.

lollipopcurve
06-25-2012, 12:21 PM
Only response is that the problem has not been overwork for Chapman. He was extremely well rested yesterday.


You're probably right, but I would not be 100% certain that the complete collapse of his secondary arsenal is not related to having to be throwing several times a week (between both game appearances and warm-up sessions after which he doesn't go in).

Chapman -- and the way he's been handled -- is a mystery. More questions than answers at this point. I am most definitely in the camp that feels his development is taking multiple steps in the wrong direction.

PuffyPig
06-25-2012, 12:24 PM
Chapman has been the victim of the age old problem with inexperienced pitchers. The league scouts you and adjusts. The league has scouted Aroldis. They know his pattern. They have adjusted. He now has to change his pitching pattern to counter this adjustment.



Chapman obviously has tried to change his pattern. If he had been able to throw a breaking ball to Mauer for a strike he likely had him struck out. But he kept missing with his breaking pitches, and Mauer kept fouling of the fastballs.

RANDY IN INDY
06-25-2012, 12:36 PM
Needs to pitch inside more.

powersackers
06-25-2012, 12:39 PM
If you guys are looking for a closer who never gives up runs, good luck. Pitch anybody in enough close games and he's going to blow a few. Chapman's last few weeks are no more a sign that he doesn't have "it" than the first few months of the season were signs that he does. Same with Marshall.

I love it when someone says something like the above that makes 100% sense and is undeniable - yet no one responds to it. A post like the above should have ended this thread as a logical truth. But yet we banter on.

Kc61
06-25-2012, 12:46 PM
I love it when someone says something like the above that makes 100% sense and is undeniable - yet no one responds to it. A post like the above should have ended this thread as a logical truth. But yet we banter on.

When your closer, over the last thirty days, is 0-4, has a 6.55 ERA, and has blown the last two save opportunities by allowing long balls, I think it's worthy of discussion.

If you view this is as typical closer performance, a slight acceptable downturn, then you probably would think it's not worthy of discussion.

powersackers
06-25-2012, 12:58 PM
When your closer, over the last thirty days, is 0-4, has a 6.55 ERA, and has blown the last two save opportunities by allowing long balls, I think it's worthy of discussion.

If you view this is as typical closer performance, a slight acceptable downturn, then you probably would think it's not worthy of discussion.

5 of his last 7 games have been bad. 5 of his last 31 games have been bad. Acceptable to me...

lollipopcurve
06-25-2012, 12:58 PM
When your closer, over the last thirty days, is 0-4, has a 6.55 ERA, and has blown the last two save opportunities by allowing long balls, I think it's worthy of discussion.

Especially when it's Chapman, a guy many feel is being wasted in the bullpen.

757690
06-25-2012, 01:37 PM
If you guys are looking for a closer who never gives up runs, good luck. Pitch anybody in enough close games and he's going to blow a few. Chapman's last few weeks are no more a sign that he doesn't have "it" than the first few months of the season were signs that he does. Same with Marshall.

The fact that he has give up a bunch of runs isn't a sign that he doesn't have "it.". The fact that he has not been able to throw anything else for strikes besides his fastball is.

Baker said after the game that Chapman's problem is that he gets behind hitters and has to come in with the fastball, and they are sitting on it. I'm sorry, but that is a lousy excuse. Any decent pitcher, especially a closer, should be able to throw their off speed pitchers for strikes in any situation. If they can't, they don't belong in the majors.

That's why I would like to see Chapman sent to AAA towork on his other pitchers and develop into a starter.

Kc61
06-25-2012, 01:49 PM
Baker said after the game that Chapman's problem is that he gets behind hitters and has to come in with the fastball, and they are sitting on it. I'm sorry, but that is a lousy excuse.

.

Here's my response to Dusty's statement.

You're up one. Man on second. One out.

You fall behind a tough righty hitter, Willingham, 3-1.

Why do you have to "come in" with any pitch? What is the tragedy if you hang tough and you walk Willingham?

Agree Chapman needs better control on the secondary pitches. But the philosophy seems to be avoid the walk at all costs. Not always a good strategy.

Look at Latos. In the last month he has allowed a ton of runs, but has only walked four guys. He's allowed 10 homers, but only four walks.

These pitchers are giving in to the hitter. They are so afraid of a walk that they are grooving pitches, giving up long balls, or so it seems.

traderumor
06-25-2012, 02:00 PM
Chapman obviously has tried to change his pattern. If he had been able to throw a breaking ball to Mauer for a strike he likely had him struck out. But he kept missing with his breaking pitches, and Mauer kept fouling of the fastballs.Yup, good hitters beat a good pitcher in yesterday's game. Mauer had a great at-bat, but the story is "we need a new closer." Willingham got on top of a freaking 99MPH up and away fastball. Are you kidding me? How many guys can do that?

Man, give credit to Major League hitters doing their job every once in a while. If one knew nothing about baseball and started out trying to learn on RZ, all they'd get is that the mighty Cincinnati Reds should win every game, but sometimes they screw things up and lose.

Kc61
06-25-2012, 02:08 PM
Yup, good hitters beat a good pitcher in yesterday's game. Mauer had a great at-bat, but the story is "we need a new closer." Willingham got on top of a freaking 99MPH up and away fastball. Are you kidding me? How many guys can do that?

Man, give credit to Major League hitters doing their job every once in a while. If one knew nothing about baseball and started out trying to learn on RZ, all they'd get is that the mighty Cincinnati Reds should win every game, but sometimes they screw things up and lose.

I just watched the replay of Willingham's home run. Pitch may have been 99 MPH, but it was right in the hitter's wheel house. That was not some up and away, outside pitch.

Willingham's a good hitter, and it was no cheap shot, he hit it 435 feet. But the pitch was right there. At least that's how it appears to me on the replay.

lollipopcurve
06-25-2012, 02:10 PM
They are so afraid of a walk that they are grooving pitches, giving up long balls, or so it seems.

Did you see the fastball Cabrera hit out in Cleveland? Off the outside corner. Not simply a matter of grooving pitches. It's a matter of being way too predictable.

REDREAD
06-25-2012, 02:58 PM
Baker said after the game that Chapman's problem is that he gets behind hitters and has to come in with the fastball, and they are sitting on it. I'm sorry, but that is a lousy excuse. Any decent pitcher, especially a closer, should be able to throw their off speed pitchers for strikes in any situation. If they can't, they don't belong in the majors.
.

Just about all pitchers go through periods like this.. look at Latos and Leake..
I'm glad the Reds didn't panic and send them down when they were struggling big earlier this year. Cueto had a rough patch (maybe 5 starts) this year too.

I know it's been a very frustrating week, but we need to relax a bit. The current formula is fine.. Yanking people in and out of roles is not going to right the ship faster. Thankfully, Dusty knows this and is patient.

lollipopcurve
06-25-2012, 03:23 PM
I know it's been a very frustrating week, but we need to relax a bit. The current formula is fine.. Yanking people in and out of roles is not going to right the ship faster. Thankfully, Dusty knows this and is patient.

I hope you're right. But while ascribing set roles can make it seem as if the hand steering the ship is steady, it may also be that it's stuck. We'll see how this goes. They could be vulnerable heading into this series and the tough west coast swing.

757690
06-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Just about all pitchers go through periods like this.. look at Latos and Leake..
I'm glad the Reds didn't panic and send them down when they were struggling big earlier this year. Cueto had a rough patch (maybe 5 starts) this year too.

I know it's been a very frustrating week, but we need to relax a bit. The current formula is fine.. Yanking people in and out of roles is not going to right the ship faster. Thankfully, Dusty knows this and is patient.

Those guys were all getting beat because they were grooving too many pitches down the heart of the plate. That happens to everyone. Chapman is getting beat because he can't throw his slider for strikes.

They can and will rebound by making better pitches. However, until Chapman has confidence in his slider to throw it in any situation, he will not rebound, in fact, it will only get worse.

klw
06-25-2012, 05:12 PM
It is a month or so later than last year and is probably just a coincidence but Chapman last season started the season with a long stretch of scoreless work before giving up runs and hitting his rough patch. Coincidence or start to a pattern? At least he hasn't lost the strike zone like last year.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/05/16/chapman-to-the-dl/

He started the season writhe 12 straight scoreless outings. He allowed 10 earned runs in his last three outings, ballooning his ERA from 0.00 to 6.92.

RedsManRick
06-25-2012, 07:50 PM
When your closer, over the last thirty days, is 0-4, has a 6.55 ERA, and has blown the last two save opportunities by allowing long balls, I think it's worthy of discussion.

If you view this is as typical closer performance, a slight acceptable downturn, then you probably would think it's not worthy of discussion.

The problem would be basing a decision off the ERA. When it comes to relievers, you just don't have enough performance data to merit making a decision on the results. The last 30 days are not especially predictive.

A run of poor performance is a red flag, a reason for inquiry. But the decision about whether or not he should keep pitching high leverage innings is a scouting one. If he's hurt or doing something else he can't fix he shouldn't be pitching high leverage innings. But if it's just a short run of poor execution and/or bad luck, stuff happens.

RedsManRick
06-25-2012, 07:52 PM
It is a month or so later than last year and is probably just a coincidence but Chapman last season started the season with a long stretch of scoreless work before giving up runs and hitting his rough patch. Coincidence or start to a pattern? At least he hasn't lost the strike zone like last year.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/05/16/chapman-to-the-dl/

He hasn't lost the zone but he has lost the corners. That gopher ball last night was on a tee. With his heat, he can pitch up and get away with it, especially up and in. But belt-high over the heart of the dish is a homer waiting to happen.

And as others have pointed out, if you can only throw one pitch in the zone, guys have no reason to stay honest. Any major leaguer can turn on a 97 mph fastball if he knows it's coming.

Kc61
06-25-2012, 08:14 PM
The problem would be basing a decision off the ERA. When it comes to relievers, you just don't have enough performance data to merit making a decision on the results. The last 30 days are not especially predictive.

A run of poor performance is a red flag, a reason for inquiry. But the decision about whether or not he should keep pitching high leverage innings is a scouting one. If he's hurt or doing something else he can't fix he shouldn't be pitching high leverage innings. But if it's just a short run of poor execution and/or bad luck, stuff happens.

Chapman has had a sufficiently bad month to warrant some change IMO. Not a permanent change, not forever, but I would probably let Marshall and Arredondo close the next few games, depending on matchups.

Take some of the pressure off him, let him focus on his mechanics and working the hitters. I don't know the young man, but rather than have him press to close games for a short while, I'd try to use him in spots when the game isn't on the line.

OldXOhio
06-26-2012, 06:58 PM
I think my post was pretty clear that I don't think the Reds have an experienced closer. The only one, Madson, is injured.

Nobody on the staff meets the criteria.



Exactly my point, which was to say that I believe your criteria to be correct and that the Reds should look outside for a closer.

Kc61
06-26-2012, 10:45 PM
Exactly my point, which was to say that I believe your criteria to be correct and that the Reds should look outside for a closer.

I think they will, this off-season. If not Madson, somebody else. Assuming Chapman is starting, although not sure who loses his spot in the rotation.

Just don't think it will happen during the season this year. I think it's Chapman this year, boom or bust.