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Raisor
06-25-2012, 07:39 AM
I've been enjoying my first trip to GAB since 2010 but one thing has me completely baffled.

I did not see a single Barry Larkin shirt.

There weren't any for sale in the team store as far as I could see.

I didn't see a single fan wearing one. I did see someone wearing a Ron Gant Reds shirt. I also saw someone wearing a Bret Favre Atlanta Falcons jersey, but not a single Barry Larkin shirt.

What?

RedLegsToday
06-25-2012, 08:11 AM
You'd think the Reds would have Barry Larkin HOF shirts or something for sale this year.

Cyclone792
06-25-2012, 08:28 AM
I wore my replica Larkin jersey to Friday night's game. Of course, now that you say it, I don't really see too many other Larkin shirts/jerseys either.

OesterPoster
06-25-2012, 09:17 AM
I saw a guy wearing a #2 Alex Gonzalez shirt at the game the other day. He was a better shortstop than Larkin, right?

bucksfan2
06-25-2012, 09:26 AM
I've been enjoying my first trip to GAB since 2010 but one thing has me completely baffled.

I did not see a single Barry Larkin shirt.

There weren't any for sale in the team store as far as I could see.

I didn't see a single fan wearing one. I did see someone wearing a Ron Gant Reds shirt. I also saw someone wearing a Bret Favre Atlanta Falcons jersey, but not a single Barry Larkin shirt.

What?

I have one but I don't wear it often.

I have always thought that the Reds botched the end of Larkin's career. O'Brein ran him out of town if you ask me. He didn't want to bring him back as a part time player. That didn't give the Reds the opportunity to capatilize on a farewell tour of Larkin. I think that pissed Larkin off and he pretty much had no realtions with the club until Bob Cast took over.

Big Klu
06-25-2012, 10:39 AM
Have the Reds announced when they will be retiring his #11? I figure that it will be some time this season.

Benihana
06-25-2012, 11:36 AM
Have the Reds announced when they will be retiring his #11? I figure that it will be some time this season.

Was just about to ask the same question.

George Anderson
06-25-2012, 11:41 AM
The Reds have done a 180 in honoring past players and teams etc. but the one visit I made to GABP this year I saw absolutely nothing to promote or acknowledge Barry making to to Cooperstown.

Thats not good.

Big Klu
06-25-2012, 11:49 AM
The Reds have done a 180 in honoring past players and teams etc. but the one visit I made to GABP this year I saw absolutely nothing to promote or acknowledge Barry making to to Cooperstown.

Thats not good.

I've seen banners celebrating Larkin's selection to the HOF, and he is the featured exhibit at the Reds HOF Museum.

George Anderson
06-25-2012, 11:51 AM
I've seen banners celebrating Larkin's selection to the HOF, and he is the featured exhibit at the Reds HOF Museum.

Oh ok, I have only been to one game so far so I musta missed it.

dabvu2498
06-25-2012, 11:53 AM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1nx5vD5m81ro6jyfo1_1280.jpg

Sea Ray
06-25-2012, 11:57 AM
I've been enjoying my first trip to GAB since 2010 but one thing has me completely baffled.

I did not see a single Barry Larkin shirt.

There weren't any for sale in the team store as far as I could see.

I didn't see a single fan wearing one. I did see someone wearing a Ron Gant Reds shirt. I also saw someone wearing a Bret Favre Atlanta Falcons jersey, but not a single Barry Larkin shirt.

What?

I don't find that surprising. It's been a long time since Barry played for the Reds and the fans have moved on. They'd prefer to wear Votto, Phillips and Bruce jerseys. They don't want to be seen as living in the past. It's not hip to wear retired players' shirts

Big Klu
06-25-2012, 12:02 PM
I don't find that surprising. It's been a long time since Barry played for the Reds and the fans have moved on. They'd prefer to wear Votto, Phillips and Bruce jerseys. They don't want to be seen as living in the past. It's not hip to wear retired players' shirts

Ever been to a Pirates game? The #1 seller (and it's not even close) is Roberto Clemente.

OesterPoster
06-25-2012, 12:07 PM
I don't find that surprising. It's been a long time since Barry played for the Reds and the fans have moved on. They'd prefer to wear Votto, Phillips and Bruce jerseys. They don't want to be seen as living in the past. It's not hip to wear retired players' shirts

I still see quite a few Bench and Rose jerseys though.

Sea Ray
06-25-2012, 12:18 PM
Ever been to a Pirates game? The #1 seller (and it's not even close) is Roberto Clemente.

Who wants to be a Pirates fan? The reason that's the case is because they don't have a Joey Votto or a Brandon Phillips. I thought it was sad during some of our lean yrs that we had so many BRM era shirts at Reds games. The fact that fans wear so many Clemente shirts tells us more about the current state of Pirates BB than it does about their fans

Edd Roush
06-25-2012, 01:32 PM
I still see quite a few Bench and Rose jerseys though.

Very true, and some Perez as well. I alternate between my Jay Bruce and Johnny Bench jerseys when I go to games.

Johnny Footstool
06-25-2012, 04:33 PM
It's not hip to wear retired players' shirts

Actually, it is. Vintage stuff is still very popular.

Ironic stuff, too. I saw a guy at a Royals game wearing a Calvin Pickering jersey.

I would love a Rolando Roomes jersey, or a Pedro Bourbon.

Vottomatic
06-25-2012, 04:42 PM
I saw a Janish jersey the other night right next to a Willy Mo jersey.

westofyou
06-25-2012, 04:48 PM
I'll never buy or wear a "game" jersey myself, not my style at all

Vottomatic
06-25-2012, 04:58 PM
Then there was the guy wearing the Phil Gagliano jersey.

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4814856517255392&id=3662db10282075201a8e1de56bd090d2

Sea Ray
06-25-2012, 05:09 PM
I would love a Rolando Roomes jersey, or a Pedro Bourbon.

Pedro Bourbon sounds more like something that should be consumed before a game rather than worn on your back...:drink:

Johnny Footstool
06-25-2012, 06:08 PM
Pedro Bourbon sounds more like something that should be consumed before a game rather than worn on your back...:drink:

I would only wear the jersey if it were misspelled like that.

Reds Fanatic
06-25-2012, 06:19 PM
Have the Reds announced when they will be retiring his #11? I figure that it will be some time this season.

They have not announced any plans for it yet. I would think it will happen sometime in the near future. I would think they would either do it later this year after he is inducted into the Hall of Fame or possibly next year.

Crumbley
06-25-2012, 06:35 PM
Who wants to be a Pirates fan? The reason that's the case is because they don't have a Joey Votto or a Brandon Phillips. I thought it was sad during some of our lean yrs that we had so many BRM era shirts at Reds games. The fact that fans wear so many Clemente shirts tells us more about the current state of Pirates BB than it does about their fans
Absolutely. Current success means less talking about the past. Lindner spent more time promoting the Big Red Machine than he did the current team. They've got real deal superstars now.

Raisor
06-25-2012, 07:23 PM
One day I WIlL have a Juan Castro shirt. Oh yes, it will be mine.

KittyDuran
06-25-2012, 09:31 PM
https://twitter.com/johnfayman/status/217341080620908544

+ there is the Barry Larkin cap promotion 8/18. The cap is a replica of the 1995 MVP season. Presented by Fox Sports Ohio.

Big Klu
06-25-2012, 09:52 PM
One day I WIlL have a Juan Castro shirt. Oh yes, it will be mine.

Which number? Manos De Oro wore three different numbers while with the Reds: 7, 9, and 12.

hebroncougar
06-25-2012, 10:48 PM
Which number? Manos De Oro wore three different numbers while with the Reds: 7, 9, and 12.

Mine will just have golden hands on the back.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

Chip R
06-26-2012, 12:48 AM
I just want a Javy Valentin game-used mustache.

VR
06-26-2012, 01:05 AM
I just want a Javy Valentin game-used mustache.

That's what she said. :redface:

Raisor
06-26-2012, 06:18 AM
I just want a Javy Valentin game-used mustache.

How do you not already have one?

KronoRed
06-26-2012, 07:05 AM
I have one but I don't wear it often.

I have always thought that the Reds botched the end of Larkin's career. O'Brein ran him out of town if you ask me. He didn't want to bring him back as a part time player. That didn't give the Reds the opportunity to capatilize on a farewell tour of Larkin. I think that pissed Larkin off and he pretty much had no realtions with the club until Bob Cast took over.

Both sides came out of that looking bad, if I recall correctly, Larkin cancelled his own retirement night with the Reds in 2004 and only retired when he couldn't find a team willing to give him a full time sport in 05.

RedFanAlways1966
06-26-2012, 08:25 AM
Both sides came out of that looking bad, if I recall correctly, Larkin cancelled his own retirement night with the Reds in 2004 and only retired when he couldn't find a team willing to give him a full time sport in 05.'

Ding-ding-ding! Barry was not a saint towards the end of his career and the way it ended in Cincy. He was also given one last deal (was it a 3-yr deal?) that was worth way more than he deserved (no, I do not buy into that crap that you are owed more for what you did int he past. I live for today). Do not get me wrong... I always liked Larkin and still like him. However, he was as much to blame for the way it ended as the organization. And that is the truth. Hard for me to relate b/c I was not put on a pedestal for many years and worshipped by my hometown during that time. I am sure it will (and has) caused many men/women to behave the way Barry did.

Edskin
06-26-2012, 08:59 AM
It's all due to the fact that the Reds weren't any good during Larkin's career. He got off to a good start, being the young buck on the 1990 team and then being one of the better players in MLB in 94-95 when the Reds were also good. But one of those years was cut short by the strike, and then from 1996 until he retired tether Reds were only really competitive in 1999. He played the last 2/3 of his career for miserable teams.

That manifests itself in many fans loving and admiring Larkin, but at the same time, there aren't many great memories or moments. If you polled Yankees fans about their greatest Jeter memories, the majority of the answer will come from post-season games or games during a heated pennant race.

Larkin had some incredible moments... But a lot of them came in mid August agains the Pirates with 14,000 people in the stands.

Unfortunately for Larkin, the majority of his highs came during low periods for the organization.

Having said that, I still think he's easily the most popular Red of my lifetime, but possibly not to the degree he should be due to lack of team success during his tenure.

If Tony Perez had the exact same individual career he had, but the Reda were a .500 team in the 70's, you wouldn't hear much about him. Players can leave a mark on the game via a stat sheet, but they can really only leave an imprint with fans via "moments."

Raisor
06-26-2012, 09:16 AM
I know you didn't mean anything about it but calling a black man a "young buck" is horribly offensive.

Raisor
06-26-2012, 10:13 AM
I'd like to point out you can't get a Larkin shirt at the team store, but you can get a paul janish one.

Sea Ray
06-26-2012, 10:21 AM
I know you didn't mean anything about it but calling a black man a "young buck" is horribly offensive.

I guess I'm not up to date on the latest editions of political correctness encyclopedia. What's racial about bucks AKA male deer?

Sea Ray
06-26-2012, 10:23 AM
I'd like to point out you can't get a Larkin shirt at the team store, but you can get a paul janish one.

It's because Janish stinks and they never sold all of his jerseys while he was playing for the team. Larkin's sold out years ago

919191
06-26-2012, 10:27 AM
I guess I'm not up to date on the latest editions of political correctness encyclopedia. What's racial about bucks AKA male deer?

It's been a racial slur for a long long time. Not saying you meant it that way, but it is.

Sea Ray
06-26-2012, 10:31 AM
It's been a racial slur for a long long time. Not saying you meant it that way, but it is.

Where did I use it?

Sea Ray
06-26-2012, 10:33 AM
Not a racial term at all:

http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/buck.asp

bucksfan2
06-26-2012, 10:37 AM
'

Ding-ding-ding! Barry was not a saint towards the end of his career and the way it ended in Cincy. He was also given one last deal (was it a 3-yr deal?) that was worth way more than he deserved (no, I do not buy into that crap that you are owed more for what you did int he past. I live for today). Do not get me wrong... I always liked Larkin and still like him. However, he was as much to blame for the way it ended as the organization. And that is the truth. Hard for me to relate b/c I was not put on a pedestal for many years and worshipped by my hometown during that time. I am sure it will (and has) caused many men/women to behave the way Barry did.

Barry put up an OPS + of 101 in his last season and O'Brein wouldn't bring him back. If you picking sides with Larkin or mangement during that time I think you have to side with Larkin 100% of the time. From the time Marge was forced to sell the team the Reds operated on the cheap and failed to build a club around Larkin (and Jr for that matter.) Remember Bowden who thought the way to build a club was around 5 tool player? The same organization who thought was best to punt a draft pick? The same organization who thought that they could sell you the whole "Build for 2003" only to build a decades worth of losing teams? The Reds were run by a bean counter for a number of years.

Larkin wasn't a saint but a guy who got on base at a .352 clip in his last season would look nice on just about any team. He didn't want to retire and O'Brein wanted nothing to do with him. Remember Anderson Machado? Or how about Rey Olmado? Both sides may be at fault but the Reds had a home grown HOF who was from Cincinnati and it took a change in management in order for him to be welcomed back into the organization.

hebroncougar
06-26-2012, 10:39 AM
I think we can all agree, there should be Barry Larkin jerseys all over GABP. The pro shop should order a large quantity of them, and his number should be retired in early August.

cumberlandreds
06-26-2012, 10:54 AM
I guess I'm not up to date on the latest editions of political correctness encyclopedia. What's racial about bucks AKA male deer?

You aren't the only one. I have never heard that as being a racial slur before either.

westofyou
06-26-2012, 11:12 AM
You aren't the only one. I have never heard that as being a racial slur before either.

It's not a "new" one it's an "OLD" one, real old as in slavery era old. Bucks are an animal, young buck was a term to describe a slave, to owners animals are property, slaves are as well.

It's not as red hot (or even orange) as it was a long time ago, and you will hear folks use it, more often than not it's not in the same manner as it was originally derided for.

That said, it's language and language is a powerful tool that produces all sorts of reactions.

I'd say let's just move on.

westofyou
06-26-2012, 11:14 AM
Barry put up an OPS + of 101 in his last season and O'Brein wouldn't bring him back. If you picking sides with Larkin or mangement during that time I think you have to side with Larkin 100% of the time. From the time Marge was forced to sell the team the Reds operated on the cheap and failed to build a club around Larkin (and Jr for that matter.) Remember Bowden who thought the way to build a club was around 5 tool player? The same organization who thought was best to punt a draft pick? The same organization who thought that they could sell you the whole "Build for 2003" only to build a decades worth of losing teams? The Reds were run by a bean counter for a number of years.

Larkin wasn't a saint but a guy who got on base at a .352 clip in his last season would look nice on just about any team. He didn't want to retire and O'Brein wanted nothing to do with him. Remember Anderson Machado? Or how about Rey Olmado? Both sides may be at fault but the Reds had a home grown HOF who was from Cincinnati and it took a change in management in order for him to be welcomed back into the organization.


Barry got crap for every word that came out of his mouth it seemed like, this is my favorite moment that he got crap... it actually did something to the folks who could change it.

That I liked in those dark days.

http://enquirer.com/columns/sullivan/1999/07/13/ts_larkins_tune_unhappy.html


I'm getting to a point in my career where I've got to play on grass, Larkin said during an All-Star game interview session. I definitely feel the effect of playing on turf. It's important for me to stay in Cincinnati, but it's even more important that I play as long as I can. In order to do that, I've got to be healthy. In order to be healthy, I've got to play on grass.

RedFanAlways1966
06-26-2012, 04:07 PM
Larkin wasn't a saint but a guy who got on base at a .352 clip in his last season would look nice on just about any team. He didn't want to retire and O'Brein wanted nothing to do with him. Remember Anderson Machado? Or how about Rey Olmado? Both sides may be at fault but the Reds had a home grown HOF who was from Cincinnati and it took a change in management in order for him to be welcomed back into the organization.

Good points, bucksfan2. But health became a big issue with Larkin at that time. It usually does for guys that play that tough position of SS in the bigs. Barry averaged 93 games per year in his last 4 seasons (45, 145, 70 and 111). He also was 40 years old in his last season. There were/are not too many 40-year-old shortstops in MLB from the past or today. It is a physically demanding position and in no way am I putting down Barry. It seemed time to move on for some. I do not remember, but perhaps the money being asked was not agreed upon by both sides and the amount of playing time being offered to Barry did not sit well with him.

REDREAD
06-26-2012, 04:44 PM
Larkin got treated like crap in the last years with the organization. Probably because he was not happy with Carl and Allen's penny pinching ways, and actually wanted to win.

I remember how Larkin popped into the radio booth to say goodbye to Marty on his last game, and later on how Marty called it a completely classless act. How dare Larkin enter the sacred sanctuary of the radio booth :rolleyes:

Then there was the incident after Barry retired and was working for the Nats, and John Allen got his panties in a wad because Larkin visited the team during spring training.. Allen was saying that employees of other teams were forbidden .. give me a freaking break..

I'm glad that Cast has reached out and patched things up. I just could not take another owner like Carl.. I really appreciate having Cast own this team.

bucksfan2
06-26-2012, 04:54 PM
Good points, bucksfan2. But health became a big issue with Larkin at that time. It usually does for guys that play that tough position of SS in the bigs. Barry averaged 93 games per year in his last 4 seasons (45, 145, 70 and 111). He also was 40 years old in his last season. There were/are not too many 40-year-old shortstops in MLB from the past or today. It is a physically demanding position and in no way am I putting down Barry. It seemed time to move on for some. I do not remember, but perhaps the money being asked was not agreed upon by both sides and the amount of playing time being offered to Barry did not sit well with him.

Larkin was my favorite player growing up so I probably have a skewed opinion on him. In 2004 Larkin played in 111 games and had stated at the time that he wanted to come back in a platoon role in 2005. In 2005 the Reds were 73-89 and really had little to no hope of contending that season. I think Larkin went somewhat on a power play trying to get one more year in the majors. I also think that Dan O'Brien wanted to show who was running the team and dismissed the notion of Larkin coming back in a 90 game model. The issue I had was not only seeing Barry play one more season but also the Reds really could have used that type of player hanging around the club house. To top it all off O'Brein tried to give Brandon Phillips Larkin's #11 only to be denied by Phillips because Larkin was his idol when he was growing up.

The thing that stunk is it wasn't until Castellini bought the team that he began to welcome back Larkin. IIRC when he was elected to the Reds HOF he wasn't present at the ceremony. It was unfortunate the way the Reds (and Barry) handled the situation.

As WOY mentioned Larkin tended to get a bad rap for some of the things he did. He got ripped for ripping the C off of his jersey when the Reds FO wasn't committed towards building a winner. He thought that grass would be a better surface to play on than turf. He was ripped for signing a big contract but that was the Reds own dumb fault for signing a 37 year old SS to a big contract at the time. Injuries did derail his career as he aged but how much of that had to so with father time as well as that artifical turf?

IMO the Reds are long over due in retiring his number. No Red has worn it since Larkin and now that he is a HOF it should be put away for good.

Big Klu
06-26-2012, 05:02 PM
Larkin was my favorite player growing up so I probably have a skewed opinion on him. In 2004 Larkin played in 111 games and had stated at the time that he wanted to come back in a platoon role in 2005. In 2005 the Reds were 73-89 and really had little to no hope of contending that season. I think Larkin went somewhat on a power play trying to get one more year in the majors. I also think that Dan O'Brien wanted to show who was running the team and dismissed the notion of Larkin coming back in a 90 game model. The issue I had was not only seeing Barry play one more season but also the Reds really could have used that type of player hanging around the club house. To top it all off O'Brein tried to give Brandon Phillips Larkin's #11 only to be denied by Phillips because Larkin was his idol when he was growing up.

The thing that stunk is it wasn't until Castellini bought the team that he began to welcome back Larkin. IIRC when he was elected to the Reds HOF he wasn't present at the ceremony. It was unfortunate the way the Reds (and Barry) handled the situation.

As WOY mentioned Larkin tended to get a bad rap for some of the things he did. He got ripped for ripping the C off of his jersey when the Reds FO wasn't committed towards building a winner. He thought that grass would be a better surface to play on than turf. He was ripped for signing a big contract but that was the Reds own dumb fault for signing a 37 year old SS to a big contract at the time. Injuries did derail his career as he aged but how much of that had to so with father time as well as that artifical turf?

IMO the Reds are long over due in retiring his number. No Red has worn it since Larkin and now that he is a HOF it should be put away for good.

I think Larkin was present for his induction into the Reds HOF. I seem to recall a lengthy and somewhat bizarre speech in which he thanked numerous corporate sponsors like Wilson and maybe Adidas. (Whoever he had his glove and shoe contracts with.) :confused:

Sea Ray
06-26-2012, 05:14 PM
It's not a "new" one it's an "OLD" one, real old as in slavery era old. Bucks are an animal, young buck was a term to describe a slave, to owners animals are property, slaves are as well.

It's not as red hot (or even orange) as it was a long time ago, and you will hear folks use it, more often than not it's not in the same manner as it was originally derided for.

That said, it's language and language is a powerful tool that produces all sorts of reactions.

I'd say let's just move on.

According to that Snopes site, that's incorrect:


As fashionable as it's become lately to ascribe racist origins to ordinary words, the slang use of "buck" has nothing to do with slaves or slavery

919191
06-26-2012, 07:18 PM
Where did I use it?

Didn't say you did. Someone else did. In post 37 you asked about it. I answered based on what I was taught and heard in an era about 40 years ago.

Sea Ray
06-26-2012, 07:27 PM
Didn't say you did. Someone else did. In post 37 you asked about it. I answered based on what I was taught and heard in an era about 40 years ago.

Fine. The way I read it, I got the impression that you were referring to my use of the word:


Not saying you meant it that way, but it is.

Thanks for clarifying that

Always Red
06-26-2012, 08:25 PM
I guess I'm not up to date on the latest editions of political correctness encyclopedia. What's racial about bucks AKA male deer?

I thought a "young buck" was a studly male deer in heat?

I took it as a compliment to Larkin.

Big Klu
06-26-2012, 09:16 PM
I thought a "young buck" was a studly male deer in heat?

Bucks don't go into heat. Does go into heat, which triggers bucks to go into rut.

gilpdawg
06-26-2012, 09:40 PM
IMO the Reds are long over due in retiring his number. No Red has worn it since Larkin and now that he is a HOF it should be put away for good.

I seem to remember at least one player wearing #11, brief though it was. Jason Romano maybe? I'll look it up later since I'm at work right now posting from my phone. I could be mistaken, but I seem to remember thinking "that ain't right, that's Larkin's number."

Big Klu
06-26-2012, 10:18 PM
I seem to remember at least one player wearing #11, brief though it was. Jason Romano maybe? I'll look it up later since I'm at work right now posting from my phone. I could be mistaken, but I seem to remember thinking "that ain't right, that's Larkin's number."

I think you're mistaken. To my knowledge (and I am somewhat of a numbers junkie), nobody has worn #11 since Larkin retired.

Romano briefly wore #10, but changed to #7 when the Reds decided to retire Sparky Anderson's number.

gilpdawg
06-27-2012, 01:14 AM
I think you're mistaken. To my knowledge (and I am somewhat of a numbers junkie), nobody has worn #11 since Larkin retired.

Romano briefly wore #10, but changed to #7 when the Reds decided to retire Sparky Anderson's number.
Maybe that's what I was mad about.