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View Full Version : Matt Latos and the top of the rotation



SidneySlicker
06-25-2012, 11:29 PM
I know people have high expectations for Matt Latos as they should after the haul the Reds gave up to get him. What I want to stress though is patience. Some forget this kid won't turn 25 until December. We all want this team to win and win now, but the Reds front office are looking too build a long term winner.

Latos just as Bailey has is going to get it figured out. Imo. People just have a hard time enduring the process, but sometimes the best things in life are worth the wait. I'm not saying he won't struggle at times yet this year, but that I think he's in a good situation to progress into the pitcher many think he can be. The icing on thr cake? The Reds have control over Latos until the 2016 season. Johnny Cueto is under control until 2016, and Bailey is under control until 2015. That's a pretty good nucleus to a starting rotation for the near future.

VR
06-25-2012, 11:42 PM
Tonight's outing served as a glance that the Reds would actually have a chance in the playoffs with Cueto and Latos at the top of the rotation.

reds1869
06-25-2012, 11:50 PM
Performances like tonight are why the Reds gave up what they did for Latos. If he ever puts it all together consistently, look out.

Superdude
06-26-2012, 12:49 AM
Location on that slider has been holding him back all year, but he was throwing it mercilessly tonight. That start was electric in every sense of the word. Like VR said, we'll be an absolute handful in the playoffs if tonight was any sign of things to come.

cumberlandreds
06-26-2012, 08:45 AM
What people forget is that Latos is the youngest of the strating pitchers. Cueto,Bailey and Leake are all oder than him. Cueto and Bailey have more MLB experience too. Once he gets consistency he's gonna be a good one. Maybe a TOR type. That maturity will come and we got a glimpse last night of what we will see more of in the future. Hopefully very near future.

redsmetz
06-26-2012, 09:08 AM
Location on that slider has been holding him back all year, but he was throwing it mercilessly tonight. That start was electric in every sense of the word. Like VR said, we'll be an absolute handful in the playoffs if tonight was any sign of things to come.

My wife and I were there last night and it was evident from the beginning that he was on. By the second inning, we knew we had a good chance for free pizza & ice cream (for those of you out of town, if Reds pitchers having 11 K's or more, your ticket gets you a free personal size (4 topping!) pizza at LaRosa's (a local chain) and a coupon for a free scoop of UDF ice cream (again, a local chain). The crowd went nuts when he got the 11th strikeout. It was a lot of fun!

Two of the four hits were surprise bunt singles. The home run was legit and the double was also well hit. Just two walks (can't recall when the 2nd one was, don't want to go look - the first was the lead off one to Aoki).

And an absolutely beautiful night at the game.

MWM
06-26-2012, 09:17 AM
I was most impressed with how bad he made Ryan Braun look. He owned Braun last night and you could see he was totally lost vs Latos.

Caveat Emperor
06-26-2012, 09:24 AM
Performances like tonight are why the Reds gave up what they did for Latos. If he ever puts it all together consistently, look out.

It all starts with his head, IMO. That's been the rap on Latos his entire career.

Vottomatic
06-26-2012, 09:28 AM
First off, I'm ecstatic about Latos performance last night.

But posters on here often get criticized for knee-jerk reactions after a loss, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I do have to wonder if there is something to what the Cleveland players said about him tipping his pitches though. Maybe they corrected it and it made a difference.

lollipopcurve
06-26-2012, 09:30 AM
Location on that slider has been holding him back all year, but he was throwing it mercilessly tonight.

Yep. Wipeout slider for sure. Shades of Jose Rijo, maybe even nastier.

RedsManRick
06-26-2012, 09:38 AM
The stuff has never really been in question; he's just not had his usual great command and was getting eaten alive with the HR. last night was a great example of the ceiling he has. For the sake of our playoff chances, I hope he can keep it up.

bucksfan2
06-26-2012, 10:00 AM
Latos pitched great last night. He was aided by a very generous strike zone of the umpire. It was nice to see the low strike being called and Latos taking advantage of it. That is the guy who the Reds thought they were getting, hopefully he can build upon it.

Chip R
06-26-2012, 10:35 AM
I remember a few years ago, Cueto was very inconsistent. He'd get up to 100 pitches by the 5th inning and he bore more of a resemblance to Latos than the 2011-12 version of Cueto.

Not every pitcher has Strasburg like success from his first start. Sometimes it takes guys a few years to put it together. But for all his ups and downs, I'd rather have a guy with stuff like Latos in the rotation than some of the stiffs that started for the Reds in the not too distant past.

HeatherC1212
06-26-2012, 10:38 AM
I was there last night too and it was SUCH a great game. The crowd was electric and I think Dusty would have had a mutany on his hands if he had taken Mat out of the game at any point. ;) Mat was in such a zone that I also knew we were going to get free pizza & ice cream by about the 3rd inning and this is the third time I've been there for that by the way....LOL :p Anyway, I was begging the Reds to get him some run support because I didn't want a great effort from him to go to waste. No one jumped to their feet faster on Jay's 2 run 2B than me, LOL :laugh:

Great job Mat! :jump:

traderumor
06-26-2012, 10:39 AM
Latos pitched great last night. He was aided by a very generous strike zone of the umpire. It was nice to see the low strike being called and Latos taking advantage of it. That is the guy who the Reds thought they were getting, hopefully he can build upon it.Only one problem. I recall one low strike going his way. Now Gallardo, I recall about half a dozen. Here I go, off to Brooks Baseball again.

Wow, my eyes were better than the Tim Timmens last night, at least my recall. There was one out of the zone low strike (probably the one to Braun), one borderline low strike for Latos. For Gallardo, 5 out of the zone low strikes, one borderline low. And also the way outside strike 3 on Rolen as well. We have sure not been getting help from the ball/strikes guys here of late.

PuffyPig
06-26-2012, 10:53 AM
Reds' Starterrs ranked by xFIP:

Leake
Cueto
Latos
Arroyo
Bailey

Vottomatic
06-26-2012, 12:43 PM
I remember a few years ago, Cueto was very inconsistent. He'd get up to 100 pitches by the 5th inning and he bore more of a resemblance to Latos than the 2011-12 version of Cueto.

Not every pitcher has Strasburg like success from his first start. Sometimes it takes guys a few years to put it together. But for all his ups and downs, I'd rather have a guy with stuff like Latos in the rotation than some of the stiffs that started for the Reds in the not too distant past.

I miss Elizardo Ramirez, Jimmy Haynes, Eric Milton, Josh Fogg, and Dave Williams. :D

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2012, 01:01 PM
Latos' problem this year has been lefties, mostly because he hasn't been throwing his slider as much (only 19.7 % of the time this year compared to 24.4 and 22.9 the previous two years). It's puzzling too, because his slider is his best pitch. But last night he threw it 44 times (34.1% of the time) and had 15 swings-and-misses on it. If he continues to mix it up and command his stuff like last night, Latos could have a huge second half. I think he will. That was a lot of fun to watch.

Here's a nice piece from Fangraphs on his start last night:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/latos-dominates-brewers-strike-zone/

VR
06-26-2012, 01:19 PM
All 5 starters are on pace for 185 innings or more this year. That's crazy.

Homer Bailey
06-26-2012, 01:46 PM
Latos pitched great last night. He was aided by a very generous strike zone of the umpire. It was nice to see the low strike being called and Latos taking advantage of it. That is the guy who the Reds thought they were getting, hopefully he can build upon it.

Latos had one pitch outside the zone low last night that was called a strike. Gallardo had 6. It was Gallardo that was getting crazy love from the generous strike zone, not Mat.

Edit: didn't see TR's post.

kaldaniels
06-26-2012, 02:06 PM
Reds' Starterrs ranked by xFIP:

Leake
Cueto
Latos
Arroyo
Bailey

If anyone who doesn't follow xFIP says they would have guessed that order I'd call them a liar.

traderumor
06-26-2012, 02:45 PM
Reds' Starterrs ranked by xFIP:

Leake
Cueto
Latos
Arroyo
Bailey

So I take an alphabet soup minute to see that xFIP is trying to increase the accuracy of future performance by bringing HR rates into the picture, so in trying to interpret the data, what is an xFIP for Leake almost a run lower than his ERA telling us? What about Cueto's xFIP being a run and a half higher than his ERA?

bucksfan2
06-26-2012, 03:06 PM
Latos had one pitch outside the zone low last night that was called a strike. Gallardo had 6. It was Gallardo that was getting crazy love from the generous strike zone, not Mat.

Edit: didn't see TR's post.

Is that a standard zone?

In the parts of the game I watched it seemed like the Ump was calling a low strike on a consistant basis. Gallardo was the recepient of some very nice calls as well. It seems to me that the low strike is a hit or miss call depending on which ump is behind the plate. If it is getting called then you pound the heck out of it.

Homer Bailey
06-26-2012, 03:10 PM
Is that a standard zone?

In the parts of the game I watched it seemed like the Ump was calling a low strike on a consistant basis. Gallardo was the recepient of some very nice calls as well. It seems to me that the low strike is a hit or miss call depending on which ump is behind the plate. If it is getting called then you pound the heck out of it.

Gallardo:

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/location.php-pitchSel=451596&game=gid_2012_06_25_milmlb_cinmlb_1&batterX=0&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3.gif


Latos:

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/location.php-pitchSel=502009&game=gid_2012_06_25_milmlb_cinmlb_1&batterX=0&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3.gif

RedlegJake
06-26-2012, 03:22 PM
All I know is every time I see Latos and he gets hit he is throwing above the catchers knees consistently. When he's on his pitches break down sharply starting at the catcher's knees and ending almost in the dirt. Then he's simply unhittable. His slider is plain filthy when he keeps it down like that. As it starts to elevate as it did last night a few times after the 7th (and I was praying as they missed a few of them)he starts getting hit. Last night he quickly adjusted and corrected when it happened.

DGullett35
06-26-2012, 04:50 PM
I really thought after the first batter he walked that things were going to come apart. You could tell he wanted that 3-2 pitch for a strike and voiced his displeasure. I give major props to Hanigan, and Price for helping him hold things together throughout the rest of the first and all the way to the 9th. When hes only worried about where Hanigans mitt is he can be dominate. When he starts thinking about the umps and everything else that might go through his head in a game he gets hit and gets hit hard. Hes going to have to learn to control his emotions at some point and hopefully soon but for the time being I think Hanigan and Price are going to have to work with him to help him in the tough moments of games. The talents there. He just needs some help from others with the emotional/head part. However at some point hes going to have to help himself with these things, and until that happens I think we will see the ups and downs of Mat's career. Good starting point last night though, and hopefully he can build on this start. Theres no reason this guy cannot be our #1 guy for years to come. Its going to be a process