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Blitz Dorsey
06-23-2012, 01:35 PM
That would be pretty funny if it is $40K for Pigott. Talk about a "Because we can" offer. Hey, if you're a college senior in the draft, that's the risk you take. You have zero leverage.

dougdirt
06-23-2012, 01:54 PM
That would be pretty funny if it is $40K for Pigott. Talk about a "Because we can" offer. Hey, if you're a college senior in the draft, that's the risk you take. You have zero leverage.

It isn't really funny, it is rather sad. But it happens all the time. That is why so many teams loaded up on college seniors in the 5-10th rounds, so they could go over slot when they wanted to.

fearofpopvol1
06-23-2012, 05:30 PM
It isn't really funny, it is rather sad. But it happens all the time. That is why so many teams loaded up on college seniors in the 5-10th rounds, so they could go over slot when they wanted to.

I don't really think it's sad. If the guys are worth their weight, they'll earn millions later. If those players are lackluster, the teams won't have tied up a big chunk of change.

Blitz Dorsey
06-24-2012, 09:21 AM
It isn't really funny, it is rather sad. But it happens all the time. That is why so many teams loaded up on college seniors in the 5-10th rounds, so they could go over slot when they wanted to.

It's not "sad" in the least. These college players are smart -- they know the system. If you're really good, you leave after your junior season. If you don't get drafted as a junior or decide to return as a senior, that's the risk you take.

At least Pigott can always say he was a 9th-round pick ... and not a 34th-rounder like his former teammate Bryson Smith (who was also a collegiate senior when drafted by the Reds).

dougdirt
06-24-2012, 09:42 AM
So if you become a doctor at 28 instead of 27 you should take 25% of the pay for the first 4 years of your job?

It sucks for those guys and frankly it is unfair. You can't slice it any other way.

Blitz Dorsey
06-24-2012, 11:17 AM
So if you become a doctor at 28 instead of 27 you should take 25% of the pay for the first 4 years of your job?

It sucks for those guys and frankly it is unfair. You can't slice it any other way.

That's not even apples and oranges. It's apples and monster trucks.

Do the elite doctors get a chance to leave med school before they do their residency? Completely different system when talking about doctors and baseball players. The best college baseball players turn pro after their junior seasons. Period. College players that return for their senior season absolutely know the "risk." (For some, it's not a risk because they didn't even get drafted as a junior. But for some that are drafted late, it's a risk to come back.)

They know what they're getting into. It's not even up for debate.

kg112686
06-24-2012, 11:19 AM
So if you become a doctor at 28 instead of 27 you should take 25% of the pay for the first 4 years of your job?

It sucks for those guys and frankly it is unfair. You can't slice it any other way.

I may be wrong but I don't see how your analogy applies. You are talking about a doctor's salary whereas the $40,000 is a signing bonus. Don't most minor leaguers make roughly the same amount depending on level in the system? I honestly don't know but that is something I would like to find out if anyone knows.

fearofpopvol1
06-24-2012, 02:13 PM
So if you become a doctor at 28 instead of 27 you should take 25% of the pay for the first 4 years of your job?

It sucks for those guys and frankly it is unfair. You can't slice it any other way.

I would buy that it sucks this year for seniors, who may not have known what the new draft rules were, and it might even suck for the senior class next year. However, the draft rules should be well known and documented by next year. Players can come out after high school and have much more leverage.

And as I said before, if the players are worth their weight, the bonus will be meaningless as they'll make plenty more at The Show.

dougdirt
06-24-2012, 02:20 PM
I would buy that it sucks this year for seniors, who may not have known what the new draft rules were, and it might even suck for the senior class next year. However, the draft rules should be well known and documented by next year. Players can come out after high school and have much more leverage.

And as I said before, if the players are worth their weight, the bonus will be meaningless as they'll make plenty more at The Show.
This year isn't any different than years past.

Mark Serrano signed for $25,000 in the 6th round in 2009. Only two other guys from that round signed for less than $125,000, a 4 year college catcher who got $15,000 and a guy who signed for $100,000.

Teams have been screwing 4 year guys forever. This isn't new.

The difference is, $100,000-200,000 can go a long way for someone. $15-40,000, not so much.

TOBTTReds
06-24-2012, 02:41 PM
Teams have been screwing 4 year guys forever. This isn't new.


I think "screwing" them is a misuse to describe what's happening. It's just like anything else in life. The kid has little to no leverage, so why would they pay them more? $1,000 bonus are just what most 4-yr kids get because of that. Good luck to him if he wants to hold out til the last minute or hit up the Indy Leagues. It takes a prospect like Aaron Crow to do that, but not a 5th rounder or later.

dougdirt
06-24-2012, 02:50 PM
I think "screwing" them is a misuse to describe what's happening. It's just like anything else in life. The kid has little to no leverage, so why would they pay them more? $1,000 bonus are just what most 4-yr kids get because of that. Good luck to him if he wants to hold out til the last minute or hit up the Indy Leagues. It takes a prospect like Aaron Crow to do that, but not a 5th rounder or later.

In the NFL, NBA seniors don't get paid 10-25% of non seniors when they sign. They get the slot money. I think these kids are getting screwed.

It is like saying 'oh, its ok to pay someone in Mexico $1 a day to work, they don't really have any leverage'. Doesn't make it right.

fearofpopvol1
06-24-2012, 02:54 PM
This year isn't any different than years past.

Mark Serrano signed for $25,000 in the 6th round in 2009. Only two other guys from that round signed for less than $125,000, a 4 year college catcher who got $15,000 and a guy who signed for $100,000.

Teams have been screwing 4 year guys forever. This isn't new.

The difference is, $100,000-200,000 can go a long way for someone. $15-40,000, not so much.

The kids have the option to not go to college or come out early if they want to. If they choose not to, there will be financial consequences for that most likely. It's a choice, really.

Blitz Dorsey
06-24-2012, 04:02 PM
In the NFL, NBA seniors don't get paid 10-25% of non seniors when they sign. They get the slot money. I think these kids are getting screwed.

It is like saying 'oh, its ok to pay someone in Mexico $1 a day to work, they don't really have any leverage'. Doesn't make it right.

It's not like that at all. You are full of terrible analogies today. Again, did the "Mexican worker" in your analogy have the option of leaving to work a year earlier for more money, but turned it down? Or was the "Mexican worker" not good enough to get a job the previous year?

Apples to unicorns.

dougdirt
06-24-2012, 04:12 PM
It's not like that at all. You are full of terrible analogies today. Again, did the "Mexican worker" in your analogy have the option of leaving to work a year earlier for more money, but turned it down? Or was the "Mexican worker" not good enough to get a job the previous year?

Apples to unicorns.

It is unfair, whether you like the analogy or not. I could care less about what they did the year before. It shouldn't matter in terms of their pay.

bellhead
06-24-2012, 06:37 PM
It's a gamble the seniors take, either they raise their stock into the first 4 rounds or their screwed.

edabbs44
06-24-2012, 06:58 PM
It is unfair, whether you like the analogy or not. I could care less about what they did the year before. It shouldn't matter in terms of their pay.

They don't have to sign.

Benihana
06-24-2012, 08:40 PM
This is silly. No one is getting screwed. Guys are getting chances to play baseball for money. If they do well, they can make a lot of money, as in millions of dollars. If they don't like what they're being offered, they can do something else for a living, like the rest of their fellow college seniors. What is so sad about that?

dougdirt
06-24-2012, 10:52 PM
This is silly. No one is getting screwed. Guys are getting chances to play baseball for money. If they do well, they can make a lot of money, as in millions of dollars. If they don't like what they're being offered, they can do something else for a living, like the rest of their fellow college seniors. What is so sad about that?

Yes they are getting screwed. Someone else, with the exact same talent/potential gets 3-4 times of what a senior would because they happen to be 4-10 months younger when they were drafted?

The idea that 'oh they get to play baseball for a living' doesn't mean they aren't getting screwed because you would love the chance. If your talent means you should be getting $150,000 and you are essentially forced to take $35,000, you are getting screwed, even if it is something you WANT to do. Being underpaid for a job you love still means you are underpaid as long as others are being paid much better for doing similar things.

REDREAD
06-26-2012, 02:09 PM
It isn't really funny, it is rather sad. But it happens all the time. That is why so many teams loaded up on college seniors in the 5-10th rounds, so they could go over slot when they wanted to.

Considering that those guys got a free college education and probably dated the best looking girls on campus, I'd say they did well. The free education is worth well over the 60k or so that they got stiffed on for the signing bonus.

REDREAD
06-26-2012, 02:15 PM
In the NFL, NBA seniors don't get paid 10-25% of non seniors when they sign. They get the slot money. I think these kids are getting screwed.

It is like saying 'oh, its ok to pay someone in Mexico $1 a day to work, they don't really have any leverage'. Doesn't make it right.

That analogy makes no sense at all.
How many non-athletes coming out of college even get a job, much less a signing bonus now? It's difficult to get a job period. All these players should be thankful that Americans overspend on entertainment and they get paid to play a game.

Comparing a college athlete to an exploited mexican worker is offensive.

dougdirt
06-26-2012, 02:20 PM
That analogy makes no sense at all.
How many non-athletes coming out of college even get a job, much less a signing bonus now? It's difficult to get a job period. All these players should be thankful that Americans overspend on entertainment and they get paid to play a game.

Comparing a college athlete to an exploited mexican worker is offensive.

I could care less about what non-athletes get or don't get. Yeah, the exploited Mexican thing was probably a bit to far, but how can you say they are exploited but not the guys getting 10-25% of what their counterparts get simply because they are 8-10 months older? That is exploitation. I can't see how anyone can actually argue otherwise.

dougdirt
06-26-2012, 02:22 PM
Considering that those guys got a free college education and probably dated the best looking girls on campus, I'd say they did well. The free education is worth well over the 60k or so that they got stiffed on for the signing bonus.

Baseball gets 10 or 11 scholarships, in D1. Those kids aren't getting free college. Some of them are getting partial free college and some aren't getting it at all. This isn't football and basketball where 90% of the team is on a full scholarship. In baseball maybe 1 kid per elite D1 team is on a full scholarship and the most of the other kids are splitting up the remaining 9-10 scholarships for the 25-30 kids.

camisadelgolf
06-26-2012, 02:41 PM
In a lot of cases, the difference between a junior's bonus and a senior's bonus is enough to pay for the last year of school and more. If the senior doesn't like the offer, he doesn't have to sign it. Maybe he should consider a "real" job anyway. They all know what they're getting into. If it's really that big of a deal, leave school early force the organization to pay for your schooling.

camisadelgolf
06-26-2012, 02:42 PM
I could care less about what non-athletes get or don't get. Yeah, the exploited Mexican thing was probably a bit to far, but how can you say they are exploited but not the guys getting 10-25% of what their counterparts get simply because they are 8-10 months older? That is exploitation. I can't see how anyone can actually argue otherwise.
Although it's definitely not true in all cases, it's typically the players on scholarships who are getting drafted.

dougdirt
06-26-2012, 02:52 PM
Although it's definitely not true in all cases, it's typically the players on scholarships who are getting drafted.

I bet less than 1% of the guys drafted are on full scholarships.

camisadelgolf
06-26-2012, 03:02 PM
I bet less than 1% of the guys drafted are on full scholarships.
True, but it's still a lot of money. Even a 40% scholarship is thousands of dollars. There are other perks that come with staying in school, too. Every student athlete knows the benefits and consequences of staying in school or signing a professional contract. At some point, you have to decide: am I a baseball player, or am I something else? If you're going to take it seriously, then sign the contract before you graduate and finish school later if you'd like. If it's your backup plan, then feel free to treat it as such.

Plus Plus
06-27-2012, 01:19 PM
Continued from the draft picks and signings thread.