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Sea Ray
06-30-2012, 09:28 AM
To the women of Redszone, would you date a guy who's unemployed? Most of you probably wouldn't according to this:


Overall, 75 percent of women said they would be unlikely to date an unemployed man, with 33 percent saying no outright. Another 42 percent of women answered maybe when asked about the possibility of dating an unemployed man. That answer, however, came with the stipulation that those women would not want to spend a lot of time in the relationship if the man did not have a plan in place. Just 21 percent of women said they would date an unemployed man.

Women, however, insist their feelings are not solely based on money. Rather, respondents said they were interested in dating someone who is engaged in an activity. Respondents felt that work was a beneficial activity for men to participate in.

On the other hand, the prospect of dating an unemployed woman was not a problem for nearly two-thirds of men. In fact, 19 percent of men said they had no reservations and 46 percent of men said they were positive they would date an unemployed woman.

http://www.livescience.com/21194-dating-unemployed-men-women.html

So what's up with that? Us men will wine and dine an unemployed gal but the ladies sure feel differently. Sounds sexist to me...:D

:feedback:

WMR
06-30-2012, 09:40 AM
I ain't sayin' she's a gold digga, but she ain't messin' with no broke ____________.

Razor Shines
06-30-2012, 10:54 AM
I ain't sayin' she's a gold digga, but she ain't messin' with no broke ____________.

Swear I thought of that as I clicked on the thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MilotheMayor
06-30-2012, 01:31 PM
I ain't sayin' she's a gold digga, but she ain't messin' with no broke ____________.

/thread

bigredmechanism
06-30-2012, 06:34 PM
I ain't sayin' she's a gold digga, but she ain't messin' with no broke ____________.

Bravo.

I think the polls show that even as we are more modernized, the traditional gender roles are still generally in place. When I take a girl out to dinner, I expect to pick up the check. I wouldn't refuse to let her pay if she offers, but asking for the check is my default position.

marcshoe
06-30-2012, 08:04 PM
There are women on this board???????

Sea Ray
06-30-2012, 08:23 PM
There are women on this board???????

Let's hear everyone's thoughts. Think women are materialistic?

pedro
06-30-2012, 08:55 PM
Let's hear everyone's opinion on how stupid men can be. That seems much more pertinent to this thread if you ask me.

westofyou
06-30-2012, 09:08 PM
There are women on this board???????

They certainly aren't welcomed by some of the opinions brought forth

Revering4Blue
06-30-2012, 09:16 PM
Let's hear everyone's thoughts. Think women are materialistic?

Speaking as a male, I don't think so. As I see it, it seems fair for women to ask that same question of men.

Just because a man or woman does not strive to climb the corporate ladder, that does not make him/her lazy, gold digging or a non-asset.

It's about being supportive and placing the professional goals/hopes/dreams of your significant other ahead of your own for the good of the relationship.

Trust me, there are many women, especially dyed-in-the-wool Alpha womwn, who could care less about a man's paycheck.

kpresidente
07-01-2012, 12:07 PM
Bravo.

I think the polls show that even as we are more modernized, the traditional gender roles are still generally in place. When I take a girl out to dinner, I expect to pick up the check. I wouldn't refuse to let her pay if she offers, but asking for the check is my default position.

Is it really that, or is it that being unemployed is seen as a proxy for being a loser in general? Women see "unemployed" and they think of a guy who's irresponsible/selfish/flakey/etc. I'm sure some people would say that's unfair, but there's tons of men out there, and women have to narrow the field somehow. Love is war, you know.

Of course, there's also the "Cinderella" syndrome, whereby every woman thinks they're going to get some shining prince, but eventually settle down with a normal, flawed guy once years of failure teach them they ain't exactly a princess themselves.

foxfire123
07-01-2012, 12:27 PM
As a woman who did date some unemployed guys back in my dating days, I'd have to say say, most of the unemployed guys I dated were unemployed for a reason--they were lazy jacka&&es who were looking fro someone to take care of them.

Really tho, it would depend on the situation. If he's recently unemployed due to the company shutting down, layoffs, etc. then I'd have probably gone out with him anyway. But if he was just let go from job #6 in a year, then I'd run like hell.

kpresidente
07-01-2012, 12:41 PM
Really tho, it would depend on the situation.

Yeah, there's a big difference between a guy with a professional degree who's highly in demand and turning down offers while he lives off his considerable savings, and the guy lives at home with mommy so he can drink all night.

bigredmechanism
07-01-2012, 04:16 PM
Is it really that, or is it that being unemployed is seen as a proxy for being a loser in general? Women see "unemployed" and they think of a guy who's irresponsible/selfish/flakey/etc. I'm sure some people would say that's unfair, but there's tons of men out there, and women have to narrow the field somehow. Love is war, you know.

Of course, there's also the "Cinderella" syndrome, whereby every woman thinks they're going to get some shining prince, but eventually settle down with a normal, flawed guy once years of failure teach them they ain't exactly a princess themselves.

I'm sure that plays a big part, but I don't see how that's so different from my point.

I think that many women still look to get a traditional male over an unemployed stay at home dad. Nothing wrong with saying that, IMO. Just as I think that also many men are conversely willing to be with a stay at home wife in lieu of modern working female if the situation presented itself.

Sea Ray
07-01-2012, 04:31 PM
They certainly aren't welcomed by some of the opinions brought forth

Let's hear opinions on the study

Sea Ray
07-01-2012, 04:37 PM
As a woman who did date some unemployed guys back in my dating days, I'd have to say say, most of the unemployed guys I dated were unemployed for a reason--they were lazy jacka&&es who were looking fro someone to take care of them.

Really tho, it would depend on the situation. If he's recently unemployed due to the company shutting down, layoffs, etc. then I'd have probably gone out with him anyway. But if he was just let go from job #6 in a year, then I'd run like hell.

Thanks for checking in. :thumbup:

I agree with you 100%. As a parent I would be very much against my daughter "getting serious" with a guy who didn't have a clue about making money but in case you hadn't noticed, I'm an old man stuck in the stone age. ;)

camisadelgolf
07-01-2012, 04:47 PM
Ever since the existence of homo sapiens, the attractiveness of men as come from how well they appear to provide. If a man is upfront about not being a provider, that's going to be a big turnoff for women. Ask men if they would date a fat woman, and then ask women if they would date a fat man. There's a huge difference there, and it's not tied into money. It's tied into the fact that healthier women produce healthier babies. If you're going to think less of a woman who won't date an unemployed man, then maybe you should think less of yourself if you're unwilling to date a woman who appears unattractive. Or is one better/worse than the other?

medford
07-01-2012, 05:46 PM
So I may have a few years to wait but when my 5-1/2 week old daughter is old enough to date [in 25 years :)] I wouldn't want her dating an unemployeed man. Now there is a huge difference b/w a guy who is capable of maintaing a job, has a solid nest egg built up and is living well w/n his means and is just waiting for the right opportunity to come around, and the typical vision you get when you think unemployeed man.

So while I joked about the 25 year wait, I'd give her the same advice when she approaches dating age. You want to date a guy who's involved in various activities, if not working wome menial teenage job. You don't want to date the guy who's always bumming a few bucks, doesn't appear to have any activities other than slacking off, etc.. Its not so much about him having the ability to support her, I hope and pray she's able to support herself in the future. She may choose/have the ability to be a stay at home mom, or take a job lesser than her skills to help fill the time if her future husband has the ability to cover the bills, but I'd like her to have the skills in place to support herself if need be.

Take the typical stereotype of the unemployeed male, and you probably tag along with it the typical stereotype of a guy that is not only unable to provide for his family, but has problems helping with the emotional sides of raising kids, taking care of things around the house, can be counted on to perform simple day to day tasks, etc... That I think is at the heart of the survey, each situation is obviously unique, but a poll like that deals in stereotypes.

Sea Ray
07-02-2012, 12:08 AM
So I may have a few years to wait but when my 5-1/2 week old daughter is old enough to date [in 25 years :)] I wouldn't want her dating an unemployeed man. Now there is a huge difference b/w a guy who is capable of maintaing a job, has a solid nest egg built up and is living well w/n his means and is just waiting for the right opportunity to come around, and the typical vision you get when you think unemployeed man.

So while I joked about the 25 year wait, I'd give her the same advice when she approaches dating age. You want to date a guy who's involved in various activities, if not working wome menial teenage job. You don't want to date the guy who's always bumming a few bucks, doesn't appear to have any activities other than slacking off, etc.. Its not so much about him having the ability to support her, I hope and pray she's able to support herself in the future. She may choose/have the ability to be a stay at home mom, or take a job lesser than her skills to help fill the time if her future husband has the ability to cover the bills, but I'd like her to have the skills in place to support herself if need be.

Take the typical stereotype of the unemployeed male, and you probably tag along with it the typical stereotype of a guy that is not only unable to provide for his family, but has problems helping with the emotional sides of raising kids, taking care of things around the house, can be counted on to perform simple day to day tasks, etc... That I think is at the heart of the survey, each situation is obviously unique, but a poll like that deals in stereotypes.

Nothing wrong with stereotypes and your post shows one indeed. You're thinking in terms of your daughter being able to support herself, fine. But you're not even bringing up the idea of her supporting a family. How would you view a son? My guess is you'd like to see him have the skills to support a family if need be. Therein lies the difference.

Sea Ray
07-02-2012, 12:08 AM
Ever since the existence of homo sapiens, the attractiveness of men as come from how well they appear to provide. If a man is upfront about not being a provider, that's going to be a big turnoff for women. Ask men if they would date a fat woman, and then ask women if they would date a fat man. There's a huge difference there, and it's not tied into money. It's tied into the fact that healthier women produce healthier babies. If you're going to think less of a woman who won't date an unemployed man, then maybe you should think less of yourself if you're unwilling to date a woman who appears unattractive. Or is one better/worse than the other?

I don't think any male or female desires dating someone unattractive. I don't see any differences there. Neither side would want to date "a fat person" as you put it

camisadelgolf
07-02-2012, 01:30 AM
I don't think any male or female desires dating someone unattractive. I don't see any differences there. Neither side would want to date "a fat person" as you put it
True, but not every female is unwilling to date an unemployed man. That's not what I'm saying though. I'm overgeneralizing, but men care about how women look, and women care about how well men can provide. Both genders are guilty of being shallow.

Redsfaithful
07-02-2012, 02:24 AM
If he's recently unemployed due to the company shutting down, layoffs, etc. then I'd have probably gone out with him anyway. But if he was just let go from job #6 in a year, then I'd run like hell.

Funny, I probably ran through probably 20+ menial, worthless jobs in about a five year period before I decided I needed to work for myself. It's gone about as well as it possibly could have gone. My wife dated me during the down time, and she's been richly rewarded (hopefully all around! but certainly financially) for whatever she saw in me.

Considering the US economy is more and more seeing high school educated men as superfluous, we are going to see (even more) women deciding they don't need to get married because all they want is the baby, and the man is just a path to that door and marriage is more trouble that it's worth. It's not good for society, ultimately. And a lot of those unemployed men would probably settle down and do better once they got married. It made all the difference in the world for me.

oneupper
07-02-2012, 09:50 AM
Funny, I probably ran through probably 20+ menial, worthless jobs in about a five year period before I decided I needed to work for myself. It's gone about as well as it possibly could have gone. My wife dated me during the down time, and she's been richly rewarded (hopefully all around! but certainly financially) for whatever she saw in me.
.

She must have seen the "tools" and taken a flyer based on potential!
Is her maiden name "Bowden". :D

Sea Ray
07-02-2012, 10:01 AM
Considering the US economy is more and more seeing high school educated men as superfluous, we are going to see (even more) women deciding they don't need to get married because all they want is the baby, and the man is just a path to that door and marriage is more trouble that it's worth. It's not good for society, ultimately. And a lot of those unemployed men would probably settle down and do better once they got married. It made all the difference in the world for me.

No question, one of the reasons we're not seeing more young folks getting married is because of all the deadbeat guys out there. There's no longer a stigma to a guy living in Mom's basement into his early 30s. That doesn't make him good marriage material.

medford
07-02-2012, 10:06 AM
Nothing wrong with stereotypes and your post shows one indeed. You're thinking in terms of your daughter being able to support herself, fine. But you're not even bringing up the idea of her supporting a family. How would you view a son? My guess is you'd like to see him have the skills to support a family if need be. Therein lies the difference.

Well I do have a son, and yes I hope he is capable of supporting himself. In either case, herself or himself, when I say supporting themselves, I mean all of their obligations including kids, cars housing, etc...

When it comes to a marriage, kids and what not, I hope that neither of them have kids outside of marriage (or at least a serious commitment should they end up being the "we'll be girlfriend/boyfriend for forever type, but don't believe in marriage" type, which I'm not a fan of, but that is a conversation for a different topic). When it comes to marriage, the person you marry will be the biggest source of both enjoyment and/or fustration in your life. Which bring me back to the stereotypical unemployeed male. If he's a slacker in his approach to working, he's likely going to be a slacker when it comes to working on his marriage, raising any kids, taking care of things around the house, etc...

And yes, I would feel the same way about my son. I wouldn't want him marry someone that would sit around the house all day eating bon bons, watching soaps, sending the kids off to daycar, hiring cleaning sevices, partying all night, etc... Most stay at home moms work their butts off, b/w running erands, cleaning, shuttling kids around, managing the household budget, etc.. they make their end of the commitment work. I can say the same thing about the 2 guys I know who are stay at home dads. If both people aren't fully involved in the commitment and share in all of the overall responsibilities that go into a marriage, that marriage is going to struggle, if not fall apart.

oneupper
07-02-2012, 10:12 AM
Considering the US economy is more and more seeing high school educated men as superfluous, we are going to see (even more) women deciding they don't need to get married because all they want is the baby, and the man is just a path to that door and marriage is more trouble that it's worth. It's not good for society, ultimately. And a lot of those unemployed men would probably settle down and do better once they got married. It made all the difference in the world for me.

That has been the case in Japan, where women have pretty much figured out that men are too much work as husbands and not worth it. They simply don't get married and don't have children. The fertility rate has been below replacement value for over 20 years and so now the population is set to enter a phase of rapid decline.

Sea Ray
07-02-2012, 11:05 AM
I think people think differently about young men and women. I have a daughter and I hope she finds a career where she can comfortably support herself but I don't think in terms of her supporting a family. If I had a son, I'd want him to be able to support more than just himself.

I'll use an example that had nothing to do with me. My wife graduated college with a degree from a very good business school in accounting. She got a nice job right away with a major corporation in downtown Cincinnati. She wasn't happy with the corporate life, working in a corner cubicle, etc so after a couple years she goes to travel agent school and eventually leaves her corporate job at the cost of a huge paycut to become a travel agent. Her salary as a travel agent was less than $10K/yr, but she was happy. Because she was happy her parents were pleased as well. This has nothing to do with me because this was long before I knew her

Now what do you think her parents' reaction would have been if she were a son and not their daughter? Do you think they'd be OK with their son spending 4 yrs of college money only to turn it into a travel agency career? No way! Double standard indeed

schmidty622
07-02-2012, 01:20 PM
I'm a 25 year old male and I wouldn't get into a relationship with an unemployed female, no matter how attractive she was. Now, I wouldn’t kick her out of bed but I’m not trying to support someone that doesn’t have anything going on for themselves.

This strikes me as another study designed to try and tell us that Men do X, and Women do Y. In reality individuals generally act the way they do based on prior experience, not because their chromosomes magically tell them what’s right and what’s wrong.

oneupper
07-02-2012, 01:49 PM
The fact is we (men & women) analyze our relationship prospects much like we do our baseball prospects.
It's rational, however un-romantic it may seem.

vaticanplum
07-02-2012, 04:58 PM
I'm guessing it's worth looking at this same study from the opposite side of the coin. i.e., the rational human perspective is to date someone who is stable, but the reason men are more willing to date unemployed women than the other way around is because of a societal standard that has made men feel disempowered if their female partners make more than they do. Thus they take less issue with a woman being unemployed because she's not a threat.

I have to say I'd be hesitant to date someone who was unemployed when I met him. Not because of the financial caveat (the occasional unemployed is unemployed because he doesn't need to work, and frankly a trust fund kid is pretty much the last person on earth I can ever see myself having a relationship with), but because work is so vital to my own well-being that I have a hard time seeing the perspective of someone who doesn't feel that way. Of course, it would depend on the person. Many (most?) unemployeds are the victims of temporary circumstance and are working to get out of it. I think I would just need to date someone who values work generally. And of course I would never dump my own partner if he were suddenly unemployed, no matter how it happened.

It might be worth noting that I do not, and have never had, any expectation for a man to "provide" for me. I can count on one hand the amount of times a guy has ever picked up a full check in my presence. And I've never been in a relationship where I wasn't the bigger breadwinner or at least an equal one.

757690
07-02-2012, 08:14 PM
True, but not every female is unwilling to date an unemployed man. That's not what I'm saying though. I'm overgeneralizing, but men care about how women look, and women care about how well men can provide. Both genders are guilty of being shallow.

Some evidence to back this up.

Divide people up by gender and sexual preference. You have four groups. Straight Men, Straight Women, Gay Men and Gay Women.

Of those four groups, which ones spend money and time making themselves look attractive for potential mates? Who works out, stays fit, dresses well, spends money and time on their hair and other physical attributes? Straight Women and Gay Men. Who are they trying to attract? Men.

Which groups don't spend much time on their appearance? Straight Men and Gay Women. Who are they trying to attract? Women.

This suggests that there is something biological in men that makes them most concerned with physical attraction, and something biological that makes women most concerned with personality, character, wealth, etc.

vaticanplum
07-02-2012, 08:24 PM
Some evidence to back this up.

Divide people up by gender and sexual preference. You have four groups. Straight Men, Straight Women, Gay Men and Gay Women.

Of those four groups, which ones spend money and time making themselves look attractive for potential mates? Who works out, stays fit, dresses well, spends money and time on their hair and other physical attributes? Straight Women and Gay Men. Who are they trying to attract? Men.

Which groups don't spend much time on their appearance? Straight Men and Gay Women. Who are they trying to attract? Women.

This suggests that there is something biological in men that makes them most concerned with physical attraction, and something biological that makes women most concerned with personality, character, wealth, etc.

The only "evidence" I see here is a bunch of unsubstantiated stereotypes.

What "suggests" that any of this is biological? None of this is biological. If there's truth in any of these assertions, it's conditioning. Not every society expects or has expected men to be breadwinners. Additionally, at many times in history, men were far and away the more dressed-up, cosmeticized sex -- arguably through most of history.

757690
07-02-2012, 08:30 PM
The only "evidence" I see here is a bunch of unsubstantiated stereotypes.

What "suggests" that any of this is biological? None of this is biological. If there's truth in any of these assertions, it's conditioning. Not every society expects or has expected men to be breadwinners. Additionally, at many times in history, men were far and away the more dressed-up, cosmeticized sex -- arguably through most of history.

These are broad characterizations, yes. Not meant to be anything more. But in understanding social issues, broad characterizations are very valuable.

I said nothing about men being breadwinners, just that men are generally more shallow and superficial than women. I think it's hard to deny that, just by looking at society and our dating rituals.

Maybe it's not biological, maybe it's social, but the fact that it gender based, but not connected to sexual preferences, suggests that it is not social.

GAC
07-03-2012, 06:31 AM
There are women on this board???????

All the Alpha males ran them off. :mooner:

Sea Ray
07-03-2012, 09:56 AM
These are broad characterizations, yes.

And I don't see those broad characteristcs either. I see a lot of dumpy, out of shape gay men. Someone who looks like Greg Louganis is the exception at most gay parades from what I've noticed

foxfire123
07-03-2012, 02:06 PM
All the Alpha males ran them off. :mooner:

*snerk!* riiiigghghht I grew up with 3 older brothers and one younger. I can take an "alpha male" down in .3 seconds! :beerme:

SunDeck
07-03-2012, 02:32 PM
So what's up with that? Us men will wine and dine an unemployed gal but the ladies sure feel differently. Sounds sexist to me...:D

:feedback:
I think it just shows that most of us realize our chances are pretty low and we adjust our standards accordingly.

I, for one, feel pretty lucky to have married into the deep end of the gene pool and nabbed one of the good ones before she knew what she was getting into.

:D

757690
07-03-2012, 02:48 PM
And I don't see those broad characteristcs either. I see a lot of dumpy, out of shape gay men. Someone who looks like Greg Louganis is the exception at most gay parades from what I've noticed

Maybe in the Midwest, where everyone is dumpy and out of shape. Lol

Go to any big city that has a large gay community. The out of shape gay men are the exception, and a large emphasis is placed on looking good in that community.

Also, there's this, which might explain what you see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_(gay_culture)

Rojo
07-03-2012, 03:22 PM
Let's hear everyone's thoughts. Think women are materialistic?

I don't think "materialistic" but I think women are more social and by extension more concerned with their place in the social hierarchy. A lot of us dudes just want to say f it and do a Jeremian Johnson.

Rojo
07-03-2012, 03:23 PM
The fact is we (men & women) analyze our relationship prospects much like we do our baseball prospects.
It's rational, however un-romantic it may seem.

Rational choice theory is dead.

Rojo
07-03-2012, 03:28 PM
the reason men are more willing to date unemployed women than the other way around is because of a societal standard that has made men feel disempowered if their female partners make more than they do. Thus they take less issue with a woman being unemployed because she's not a threat.

True. But I don't think it fair to put it all on us neanderthal men. Many women don't want to date anyone who makes less than they do. I've had girlfriends who wanted me to lie about my job.

camisadelgolf
07-03-2012, 05:11 PM
If you think all the gay men in Cincinnati are out of shape, you're out of touch.

Roy Tucker
07-03-2012, 05:32 PM
I don't see anything wrong with having checklist of what you want and don't want in a potential partner. And I'd put "no job" on the red flag list.

There may be mitigating circumstances and perfectly good reasons that would make me say "oh.. well that's fine then". But it's not the best way to start things. It's my life and I can be pretty darn picky.

GAC
07-06-2012, 05:40 AM
I have a friend at work, just turned 50 and has been divorced twice, who just ended a relationship with a woman he met on-line several months ago. They both reside here in Ohio, but it was a long distance relationship (weekends). She wanted more of a commitment, and asked him to quit his job here at Honda and move in with her. I guess, due to her job, she is financially set. He wouldn't do it though, and I don't blame him because he's been at Honda for over 20 years and would basically be throwing that away if the relationship went sour.

I've known two women (casual friends) who were in relationships with guys whom they basically supported. While it was no concern of ours, most of us that knew them felt these guys were nothing but bums, taking advantage and living off them, and that the relationships wouldn't last. They didn't.

I do have a cousin in Cincy that is a house-husband though. They have one child, and his wife is an administrator who makes a very tidy living. They're content with the situation of her being the bread-winner. To each his own.

Revering4Blue
07-06-2012, 09:58 PM
Interesting post from a woman on another message board about stay-at-home-husbands.


I think it would be heavenly. I have always worked, before marriage, and during both marriages and I suspect I will work till the day I fall over dead. On top of working, I have also done 99% of child care and house work and yard work. If I were to have a lapse of sanity and marry again, I would want a stay at home husband. Im salivating thinking about having my breakfast cooked and clothes laid out for me in the morning then after 8 hrs. come home to a clean house, clean laundry, beds made and a hot meal then sit on the couch and watch tv while he cleans up the kitchen and brings me a beer. Not have to worry about doing the shopping and paying bills or making appointments, gardening and canning or mending clothes. And I wouldnt be the one expected to cook for church socials and family reunions, buy the christmas, wedding and graduation gifts or decorate and cook for the holidays.


http://www.city-data.com/forum/relationships/807773-do-women-like-househusbands-4.html

marcshoe
07-07-2012, 01:24 PM
All the Alpha males ran them off. :mooner:

Particularly true since when I asked the question, I thought this thread was on the Politics and Religion board. :p

Redsfaithful
07-07-2012, 05:35 PM
Interesting post from a woman on another message board about stay-at-home-husbands.




http://www.city-data.com/forum/relationships/807773-do-women-like-househusbands-4.html

This sounds like a pretty ridiculous relationship model, no matter which gender is doing which. Not to slam anyone, because everyone's relationship is different and people are happy with different things, but that scenario sounds like keeping a slave more than a stay at home husband.

Revering4Blue
07-07-2012, 05:59 PM
This sounds like a pretty ridiculous relationship model, no matter which gender is doing which. Not to slam anyone, because everyone's relationship is different and people are happy with different things, but that scenario sounds like keeping a slave more than a stay at home husband.

Slave? Really?

All it tells me is that properly maintaining a household requires a heck of a lot more work than most Men care to admit. One isn't just sitting on the couch eating bon-bons all day. There's plenty to do, kids or no kids.

Also, think of it this way-- If one doesn't have to go to a job and the other doesn't have to do housework/yard work, both have much more free time. I'm guessing that she doesn't wish to spend what little free time she has scrubbing floors, grocery shopping, doing laundry etc..

Good for her.

kpresidente
07-08-2012, 12:47 PM
I don't think "materialistic" but I think women are more social and by extension more concerned with their place in the social hierarchy. A lot of us dudes just want to say f it and do a Jeremian Johnson.

Men are attracted by physical appearance, and women are attracted by a guy's social standing. Jeremiah Johnson was an alpha male at some point in the past, which is why low-status betas who can't cut it in a complex modern world get nostalgic about simpler times when somebody like them could have ruled.

As far as the whole "materialistic" thing goes, I'd say women are naturally more concerned with hearth and home, which implies a certain amount of consumer materialism. But beyond comfortable living, where wealth becomes an avenue for power and influence more than creature comforts, I see men as more materialistic. Look at the Forbes 400, it's dominated by men. Women quit working when they get that much money, and I don't think I've ever seen a woman get all wide-eyed and hyped up over her investment portfolio, the way some men do.

Redsfaithful
07-08-2012, 02:28 PM
Slave? Really?

All it tells me is that properly maintaining a household requires a heck of a lot more work than most Men care to admit. One isn't just sitting on the couch eating bon-bons all day. There's plenty to do, kids or no kids.

Also, think of it this way-- If one doesn't have to go to a job and the other doesn't have to do housework/yard work, both have much more free time. I'm guessing that she doesn't wish to spend what little free time she has scrubbing floors, grocery shopping, doing laundry etc..

Good for her.

My wife stays at home and I still do plenty of housework. I'd be a pretty cruddy partner if I made her do 100% of everything since I was the only one working. Just my opinion.

Revering4Blue
07-08-2012, 02:33 PM
My wife stays at home and I still do plenty of housework. I'd be a pretty cruddy partner if I made her do 100% of everything since I was the only one working. Just my opinion.

Point taken.

FWIW, I never believed that you are one stuck in the "stone age.":beerme:

Rojo
07-09-2012, 02:29 PM
Men are attracted by physical appearance, and women are attracted by a guy's social standing. Jeremiah Johnson was an alpha male at some point in the past, which is why low-status betas who can't cut it in a complex modern world get nostalgic about simpler times when somebody like them could have ruled.

Maybe. But I think there's more to it than "not cutting it". We have 100,000 years of hunting and gathering. And hunting and gathering tribes were often more egalitarian. There are many reasons why people want to drop out.


As far as the whole "materialistic" thing goes, I'd say women are naturally more concerned with hearth and home, which implies a certain amount of consumer materialism. But beyond comfortable living, where wealth becomes an avenue for power and influence more than creature comforts, I see men as more materialistic. Look at the Forbes 400, it's dominated by men. Women quit working when they get that much money, and I don't think I've ever seen a woman get all wide-eyed and hyped up over her investment portfolio, the way some men do.

Anthropologically, men have acquired money as a means to acquire social power and women (which in turn is social power). A man can acquire lots of money, lots of women and lots of children. There's a biological bottleneck on women's reproductive capacity. No matter how many men she get's, she's going to have the same amount of babies.

Orenda
07-10-2012, 06:46 AM
Men are attracted by physical appearance, and women are attracted by a guy's social standing. Jeremiah Johnson was an alpha male at some point in the past, which is why low-status betas who can't cut it in a complex modern world get nostalgic about simpler times when somebody like them could have ruled.



Not sure if I'd agree with you that the story of a man abandoning society and heading into the wilderness alone qualifies as a good example of a man trying to "rule" over anyone.

Understand my point?

guttle11
07-12-2012, 01:15 PM
I speak from the perspective of a man who has been unemployed in the not too distant past. Between spending hours upon hours looking at various job postings and sending my resume/cover letter/recommendation, to being out networking and attending career fairs, to working odd jobs painting and landscaping (which is a complete 180 from my career field) just so I could pay my bills and have a little bit of spending money, I didn't have the time or energy to even think about meeting a woman and beginning any kind of relationship.

So I can't see a woman actively starting a relationship, casual or more, with an unemployed guy. He shouldn't have the time to put in the effort of dating. If he does, current unemployment probably isn't his biggest issue. The same goes for men dating unemployed women. If someone doesn't have the work ethic and desire to pull themselves out of a tough spot, why should someone take an interest in them?

Rojo
07-12-2012, 01:47 PM
If someone doesn't have the work ethic and desire to pull themselves out of a tough spot, why should someone take an interest in them?

Because they're hot.

Redsfaithful
07-12-2012, 03:48 PM
I can't say I ever considered a woman's work ethic before dating. There were always, um, other considerations.

dougdirt
07-12-2012, 05:12 PM
I can't say I ever considered a woman's work ethic before dating. There were always, um, other considerations.

How awesome her fashion sense was?
How nice she smelled?
Her taste in movies?
Whether or not she was into 'Redsfaithful'?

vaticanplum
07-12-2012, 05:24 PM
I'm unemployed and there's no way in hell I'd start a new relationship right now. Being without daily work and an income, provided you need it, is demoralizing, frustrating, limiting, and guilt-inducing. It makes you unable to plan for the future in any clear way and makes you question past decisions. It clouds your perspective on the present. It tends to make you short-tempered and short-sighted. It forces you to completely evaluate and re-evaluate your skills, your priorities, your self-worth, your threshold for humiliation and which things that are important to you you're willing to give up; in short, it makes you completely temporarily self-centered. That's a horrible state to start a relationship in.

edit: also, clearly, when you are unemployed, you are a barrel of sunshine and a beacon of romance.

Larry Schuler
07-12-2012, 07:42 PM
Your relationships with family/friends/spouses don't have to suffer in order to "earn" unemployment work ethic kudos. There is a time to job search & (if you are open to the idea) there is a time to put worries & stress on hold and enjoy your life & the people in it. Easier said than done but "I'm working too hard searching for a job to allow myself a healthy, balanced life" is not necessarily the greatest ideal to strive for, in my opinion. There is an hour somewhere in your day that you can shut off the voices & devote yourself to enjoying relationships & personal connections.

A woman or man who is ready to have a mature, adult relationship won't pass you by because you can't take them out for dinner every date. In my opinion, people hate being vulnerable and are always looking to say "No" to protect themselves from their own insecurities, fears, inabilities, worries, etc...and money/jobs is a really great excuse to say "No" to someone. Glitzy dates and loud music and expensive visual/aural distraction are attractive when you're trying your hardest to avoid being vulnerable & honest & intimate with others but they become not-so-attractive when you are looking for an actual person to connect with & be open/honest/intimate with. No matter how poor or unemployed you are, you are yourself & that can be a non-expiring treasure to the right man or lady once you find them. The best dates are about people lost in each other's company...not great sushi.

vaticanplum
07-12-2012, 08:01 PM
Your relationships with family/friends/spouses don't have to suffer in order to "earn" unemployment work ethic kudos. There is a time to job search & (if you are open to the idea) there is a time to put worries & stress on hold and enjoy your life & the people in it. Easier said than done but "I'm working too hard searching for a job to allow myself a healthy, balanced life" is not necessarily the greatest ideal to strive for, in my opinion. There is an hour somewhere in your day that you can shut off the voices & devote yourself to enjoying relationships & personal connections.

A woman or man who is ready to have a mature, adult relationship won't pass you by because you can't take them out for dinner every date. In my opinion, people hate being vulnerable and are always looking to say "No" to protect themselves from their own insecurities, fears, inabilities, worries, etc...and money/jobs is a really great excuse to say "No" to someone. Glitzy dates and loud music and expensive visual/aural distraction are attractive when you're trying your hardest to avoid being vulnerable & honest & intimate with others but they become not-so-attractive when you are looking for an actual person to connect with & be open/honest/intimate with. No matter how poor or unemployed you are, you are yourself & that can be a non-expiring treasure to the right man or lady once you find them. The best dates are about people lost in each other's company...not great sushi.

I'm not saying you have to let your current life go to pot if you're unemployed, especially not relationships you're already in. But starting a *new* relationship under those circumstances? I just don't think it's a great idea. I'm speaking emotionally, not financially. I'm sure it's an individual thing. A lot of people are more romantic than I am: relationships help them get everything else in order. I'm very pragmatic; I work mostly the other way around.

Rojo
07-12-2012, 08:16 PM
I'm very pragmatic

Pragmatic? The heart wants what the heart wants.

Larry Schuler
07-12-2012, 08:35 PM
I'm not saying you have to let your current life go to pot if you're unemployed, especially not relationships you're already in. But starting a *new* relationship under those circumstances? I just don't think it's a great idea. I'm speaking emotionally, not financially. I'm sure it's an individual thing. A lot of people are more romantic than I am: relationships help them get everything else in order. I'm very pragmatic; I work mostly the other way around.

I understand. It's definitely different for everyone...but I think re-iterating the idea of enjoying the time you have, even if it just a few minutes a day, even if your surroundings aren't ideal, is always a bit helpful. There is a coping mechanism sometimes where people might romanticize self-torture/happiness-denial as a sign they are "working hard" or "doing what needs to be done" which is sad/scary considering how little time we get on this rock. Just throwing these ideas out there for people who might mis-read your post & similar posts as affirming that perspective! :)

Any new relationship is hard. Even if you are rolling in money. I don't envy people in that stage!

vaticanplum
07-13-2012, 01:57 AM
Pragmatic? The heart wants what the heart wants.

You guys are a bunch of saps :p

I appreciate your perspectives though.

TeamCasey
07-13-2012, 09:06 AM
Never saw this thread until just now and I haven't read through it yet.

I would say it would depend on the circumstances of his unemployment. If he's not working because he doesn't have a plan or just doesn't want to ...... then my answer is no. If he's unemployed because of some other life circumstances ..... layoff, illness, etc, then my answer is maybe. I'm the least materialistic woman I know. I don't need much in life other than a good book and a fishing pole. I don't need anyone to take care of me and I would not want someone that needs to be taken care of.

One thing I would NOT do is to get into a serious relationship with someone with a lot of debt. That sounds materialistic but I've worked hard all my life and I'm too selfish to inherit someone's debt. They'd have to clean that up before we ever talked about marraige, etc.

Orenda
07-26-2012, 05:02 PM
Wizard Of Oz Horse - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN75xqpqCGE&feature=fvwrel)

get up at 12 work at 1 hour for lunch done at 2