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Scrap Irony
07-01-2012, 12:43 AM
Dwight Howard wants to be dealt to the Nets, according to ESPN.

I'm guessing a deal will get done, with Brook Lopez going to Orlando for Hedo Turkoglu (and his $11 million salary) and Howard. Orlando then prays for Lopez's ankle/ leg to be okay and looks to free agency for a new, better PG and SF.

The Nets, meanwhile, would still be able to afford Deron Williams to pair with Howard. They've got MarShon Brooks, who's not horrible, at SG, but the only forward they have on their roster is Jordan Williams, who played sparingly.

Regardless, Howard's image has certainly taken a beating this year. LeBron-esque. (Though with actual, multiple examples of hubris.)

Revering4Blue
07-01-2012, 01:36 PM
With Garnett returning, this may be big news.


The Celtics are reportedly willing to give Ray Allen a two-year, $12 million contract, double the annual salary the Heat can offer.

Miami is restricted to offering the mini-mid-level and it's hard to imagine Allen taking a huge pay cut for a perceived competitive advantage with the Heat. The Suns and a handful of other teams are reportedly interested in him also, but with KG back in Boston and a solid offer on the table, don't be surprised to see him in a green jersey next year.


Source: Chris Broussard on Twitter

Orenda
07-01-2012, 02:20 PM
Trailblazers going after Roy Hibbert. Hibbert /Aldridge pairing could be dangerous, two nationally under-rated players.

Scrap Irony
07-01-2012, 02:35 PM
Hibbert is underrated?

Wasn't he an All Star this season, with averages of 12.8 and 8.7?

Orenda
07-01-2012, 02:55 PM
Hibbert is underrated?

Wasn't he an All Star this season, with averages of 12.8 and 8.7?

maybe not under-rated, but really good players not in "major" media markets.

UKFlounder
07-01-2012, 03:27 PM
Nets apparently agree to give Gerald Wallace $40 million over 4 seasons. I kind of question that decision though maybe they think that influences Williams

improbus
07-01-2012, 03:37 PM
Offering Hibbert a max deal is ludicrous. I like him at around $10 million, but any center that shoots under 50% and isn't an elite rebounder is not worth that kind of money. It is offers like the one Portland offered that makes it impossible to build a proper team.

Scrap Irony
07-01-2012, 04:43 PM
Nets apparently agree to give Gerald Wallace $40 million over 4 seasons. I kind of question that decision though maybe they think that influences Williams

They gotta play (and pay) somebody. Wallace was ninth in the league among small forwards in EWA (Estimated Wins Added) and 12th in PER. Plus, he's a guy you never have to call a play for, and he plays full-on, all the time. If you're going to overpay for someone, Gerald Wallace isn't a bad guy to overpay.

Wallace is a decent piece.

Banking on improvement from PF Jordan Williams (a good bet, as he showed flashes as a powerful screen setter, a decent defender, and solid rebounder last season as a rookie) might be the way to go on power forward. (I'd grab a cheap veteran off the scrap heap, as power forwards are pretty much everywhere in today's NBA. A Carl Landry or Luis Scola would come cheap-- either via talent given up or contract.

They could also sign Courtney Lee as a SF/ SG. He's an RFA in Houston and is criminally underrated. (I'm saying this not as a Western Kentucky alum and fan-- which I am-- but as an inbiased oberver of the game. ;))

That way, they could deal a Brook Lopez and a MarShon Brooks (another rookie who played well last season and a positional weakness for Orlando) for Dwight Howard. That would be enough to convince Deron Williams to stay, IMO, and leave Brooklyn with an outside shot at a top four seed in the playoffs and a starting lineup of:
Deron Williams PG
Courtney Lee SG
Gerald Wallace SF
Jordan Williams PF
Dwight Howard

Scrap Irony
07-01-2012, 04:50 PM
Offering Hibbert a max deal is ludicrous. I like him at around $10 million, but any center that shoots under 50% and isn't an elite rebounder is not worth that kind of money. It is offers like the one Portland offered that makes it impossible to build a proper team.

Roy Hibbert C
LeMarcus Aldridge PF
Nicolas Batum SF
Wes Matthews SG
Damian Lillard PG

Reserves:
Will Barton SG
Luke Babbit SF
Meyers Leonard C
Elliot Williams SG
Vet PG FA

That's a young, talented team. Tall, too. The only weaknesses are the fragility of Aldridge and questions about the shooting guards. (Though I like Elliot Williams a lot and think Barton will be a steal.)

improbus
07-01-2012, 04:55 PM
Roy Hibbert C
LeMarcus Aldridge PF
Nicolas Batum SF
Wes Matthews SG
Damian Lillard PG

Reserves:
Will Barton SG
Luke Babbit SF
Meyers Leonard C
Elliot Williams SG
Vet PG FA

That's a young, talented team. Tall, too. The only weaknesses are the fragility of Aldridge and questions about the shooting guards. (Though I like Elliot Williams a lot and think Barton will be a steal.)

There are no guarantees that the last 5 guys you listed can play. But, I do love everything about Will Barton. He has the skinniest legs I've ever seen.

BuckeyeRed27
07-01-2012, 05:17 PM
Roy Hibbert C
LeMarcus Aldridge PF
Nicolas Batum SF
Wes Matthews SG
Damian Lillard PG

Reserves:
Will Barton SG
Luke Babbit SF
Meyers Leonard C
Elliot Williams SG
Vet PG FA

That's a young, talented team. Tall, too. The only weaknesses are the fragility of Aldridge and questions about the shooting guards. (Though I like Elliot Williams a lot and think Barton will be a steal.)

That is maybe a .500 team.

Scrap Irony
07-01-2012, 05:44 PM
There are no guarantees that the last 5 guys you listed can play. But, I do love everything about Will Barton. He has the skinniest legs I've ever seen.

I like Luke Babbit as a shooter off the bench (41% 3-point shooting last year in seriously limited time). Leonard's going to get time regardless of if he's ready or not. The vet point guard free agent is their own fault. And Williams looks like a solid backup. (Look at his PER numbers in extremely limtied action from last season.)

You're right that they have no guarantees. But I like that starting five as tall, young, and capable. They'll need a power forward to back up Aldridge and a PG veteran.

Would you like the Blazers better, improbus, with, say, Aaron Brooks and DJ White as backups? Because those are, IMO, the type of guys the Blazers are going to look for.

I like that team's upside.

Orenda
07-01-2012, 05:48 PM
That is maybe a .500 team.

anchor a team with a healthy Hibbert and Aldridge...knock on northwest timber, and I'd take my chances it would be possible to put together a team nobody wants to play in a short time-frame.

Scrap Irony
07-01-2012, 06:11 PM
That is maybe a .500 team.

Aldridge is among the best power forwards in the game-- as his 22.73 PER and 11.71 EWA attest. Hibbert's at a 19.35 PER, with the ninth-best EWA for centers in the league. Nicolas Batum has a PER of 17.32 and a EWA of 6.1, both of which rank 8th in the league. That would make the Portland frontcourt starters the cream of the NBA crop, statistically.

Wes Matthews' 2012 PER of 14.12 is below league average, true, and ranks 29th. But his 2011 numbers suggest he can play much, much better. (The addition of Barton and Elliot Williams' excellent PER numbers in limited time should also mitigate possible poor play as well.)

It all hinges on Lillard. If he's a 17/7 guy in 30-35 minutes with good shooting percentages, the Blazers are a top four team in the West. If he struggles to catch up to the speed of the NBA game, they'll struggle as a team. I'm of the opinion, in looking at other top-rated PGs coming out of college over the past decade, he can be at least league average, quite possibly much, much more. (Kyrie Irving was worth 8 wins last season, for example. Stephen Curry was worth about seven three years ago.)

The bench is weak admittedly. But it has some pretty massive upside. Leonard is going to play quite a bit and, with his size and athleticism, should be able to provide better than league average backup minutes. Barton's a wildcard, but, even if he struggles, there are always tons of veterans willing to settle for bench minutes and a couple million dollars. Same thing with Babbit, who, two years ago, was considered among the draft sleepers and is still very, very young.

Revering4Blue
07-01-2012, 07:03 PM
Bigger question:

When you consider the fact that the Pacers couldn't beat the heat with Hibbert. Is it a must that they match Portland's offer?

I'm not so sure that the Pacers couldn't get similar production at C at less prohibitive cost, even in a tag-team situation.

Were you Pacers GM Kevin Pritchard, what would you do?

Assembly Hall
07-01-2012, 07:22 PM
Bigger question:

When you consider the fact that the Pacers couldn't beat the heat with Hibbert. Is it a must that they match Portland's offer?

I'm not so sure that the Pacers couldn't get similar production at C at less prohibitive cost, even in a tag-team situation.

Were you Pacers GM Kevin Pritchard, what would you do?

Interesting question Blue. Starting to make me wonder if the Pacers were already aware of what might happen when they drafted Plumlee?

improbus
07-01-2012, 07:26 PM
Aldridge is among the best power forwards in the game-- as his 22.73 PER and 11.71 EWA attest. Hibbert's at a 19.35 PER, with the ninth-best EWA for centers in the league. Nicolas Batum has a PER of 17.32 and a EWA of 6.1, both of which rank 8th in the league. That would make the Portland frontcourt starters the cream of the NBA crop, statistically.

Wes Matthews' 2012 PER of 14.12 is below league average, true, and ranks 29th. But his 2011 numbers suggest he can play much, much better. (The addition of Barton and Elliot Williams' excellent PER numbers in limited time should also mitigate possible poor play as well.)

It all hinges on Lillard. If he's a 17/7 guy in 30-35 minutes with good shooting percentages, the Blazers are a top four team in the West. If he struggles to catch up to the speed of the NBA game, they'll struggle as a team. I'm of the opinion, in looking at other top-rated PGs coming out of college over the past decade, he can be at least league average, quite possibly much, much more. (Kyrie Irving was worth 8 wins last season, for example. Stephen Curry was worth about seven three years ago.)

The bench is weak admittedly. But it has some pretty massive upside. Leonard is going to play quite a bit and, with his size and athleticism, should be able to provide better than league average backup minutes. Barton's a wildcard, but, even if he struggles, there are always tons of veterans willing to settle for bench minutes and a couple million dollars. Same thing with Babbit, who, two years ago, was considered among the draft sleepers and is still very, very young.
I'm not saying that team couldn't be good, eventually. But, there is a team to the south of Portland that has a better C than Hibbert (and just as young) better or equal PF to Aldridge, and one of the best SGs in basketball history and couldn't get past the second round, so it is hard to get too excited about that lineup.

Now, Lillard can't possibly be worse than Felton, which is a plus. But, Portland might be the worst run franchise in hoops not located in Charlotte, and that is saying something. They were very shortsighted and petty with both Oden and Roy (I get the feeling Roy retired to get away from Portland), they ran off a successful coach in Nate McMillan, and have filtered through GMs like crazy. So, my confidence in them is very low.

I get the feeling that things wont quite work out, Aldridge will want out, Batum might get a "Blazer like" offer from someone else, and they will be left in a bad spot.

I hate to see them hurting like this. I absolutely loved the Pippen, Rasheed, Arvydas team. It might be my favorite hoops team of all time. How can a team with Rasheed and Arvydas be anything but my favorite.

Scrap Irony
07-01-2012, 08:00 PM
I'm not saying that team couldn't be good, eventually. But, there is a team to the south of Portland that has a better C than Hibbert (and just as young) better or equal PF to Aldridge, and one of the best SGs in basketball history and couldn't get past the second round, so it is hard to get too excited about that lineup.

I'd disagree a whole bunch about Pau Gasol being Aldridge's equal. Gasol's 2012 was the very definition of ordinary. LA also had perhaps the worst PG play of any team in the league. Worse than Felton, in fact. (As hard as that is to believe.) And their small forward and bench rotation were among the league's worst.

In short, LA has/ had a great player, a very good player, an average player, and little else resembling league average play.

I get the Portland questions. But I'm a sucker for young, cap-friendly teams with athletic upside and production. The Blazers have four players that should be among the top 10 players in the league, per position. They also have a couple rookies that could blossom.

Portland's Big Four-- Aldridge, Batum, and Lillard, and Hibbert-- could compare favorably with all but OKC as early as next season. Aldridge is a stud. Batum and Hibbert are very, very good, and Lillard's numbers look great. If Wes Matthews (or another SG) can man up, they're as good as anyone this side of OKC in the West. They've got more cap room to add pieces if need be and an owner historically open to adding talent. (Johnson from the ATL would be a nice guy to grab out from under the Nets' nose. And it wouldn't cost all that much in terms of talent. Only cash.)

improbus
07-01-2012, 08:12 PM
And actually, the Portland and Indiana situations highlight the one fatal weakness of the NBA. Portland and Indiana are stuck in the dreaded middle ground. They havent bottomed out to get a LeBron, Durant, or Wade in the draft, but they arent good enough to lure the top free agents. If you don't have at least one A+ player, you have almost no chance to win it all. Right now, there are only a few players that I can see leading their teams to a finals victory:
LeBron
Durant
Kobe (maybe, his window might have closed)
Dwight (if he gets his head straight)
Rose (he needs more help)
Dirk (only if he sobers up from last years championship)

That is about it. I'm not sure a PG can do it (Isaiah was the last over 20 years ago). Duncan isn't that player any more. Garnett is close, but he needs a lot of help on the offensive end. Carmelo hasn't figured out the other side of the ball.

For the record, you can bring up the 2004 Pistons as a counterbalance, but that year was a massive fluke. LeBron wasn't 19. The Lakers should have run everyone over (the Karl Malone injury was actually huge. He was playing really well as a distributer in the high post playing something akin to the Lamar Odom role for the Lakers the last few years). The Pacers should have represented the East, but there was this fight thing... Manu only played 38 games.

So, if you don't have one of those guys, what do you do? Well, you sign Joe Johnson for 19 million a year or Roy Hibbert for 14.5 per year, crippling your cap flexibility and tethering yourself to B level players. That is why I admire what Daryl Morey in Houston is doing. He is going all in after Dwight, even if he says he doesn't want to stay. He is hoping that once Dwight gets there, he will like it and want to keep playing in Houston. Sometimes, you have to roll the dice.

Revering4Blue
07-01-2012, 08:16 PM
Interesting question Blue. Starting to make me wonder if the Pacers were already aware of what might happen when they drafted Plumlee?

Plumlee was drafted to fill the role Amundson filled last year--the role Jeff Foster filled for many years.

I was thinking along the lines of, say, Chris Kamen and Ian Mahinmi in a tag-team situation with Plumlee gaining minutes at both C and PF.

One advantage the Pacers have is that they can offer Hibbert a fifth year, possibly back loading the deal. More than likely, Hibbert will remain a Pacer. But if George Hill receives an outrageous offer, the Pacers will have no choice except to let the "hometown hero" go, which puts pressure on both Orlando Johnson and Lance Stephenson to perform--unless the Pacers can sign Mayo or Crawford.

Scrap Irony
07-01-2012, 08:22 PM
Bigger question:

When you consider the fact that the Pacers couldn't beat the heat with Hibbert. Is it a must that they match Portland's offer?

I'm not so sure that the Pacers couldn't get similar production at C at less prohibitive cost, even in a tag-team situation.

Were you Pacers GM Kevin Pritchard, what would you do?

Is Indiana run well enough to find a center that will be able to find a top ten production platoon at center?

When was the last time the Pacers had a center tandem better than Hibbert in terms of Wins Shares?

2003-2004 25-year-old Jermaine O'Neal.

Revering4Blue
07-01-2012, 08:25 PM
The Pacers should have represented the East, but there was this fight thing.

Actually, that was the following Fall. It was the Rasheed Wallace heist that Joe Dumars performed at the '04 deadline, one that the Pacers could have/should have just as easily performed, that propelled the Pistons past the Pacers and onto their ensuing championship.

Other than that, I wholeheartedly agree with your post.:thumbup:

improbus
07-01-2012, 08:40 PM
I'd disagree a whole bunch about Pau Gasol being Aldridge's equal. Gasol's 2012 was the very definition of ordinary. LA also had perhaps the worst PG play of any team in the league. Worse than Felton, in fact. (As hard as that is to believe.) And their small forward and bench rotation were among the league's worst.

In short, LA has/ had a great player, a very good player, an average player, and little else resembling league average play.

Gasol's play was as much a result of poor positioning as anything else. He shot the same percentages as last year, but because he was playing much further from the basket, he took way more jumpers. In 2010-2011, he took 40% of his shots at the rim, 30% from the paint, and 30% on jumpers. In 2011-2012, he took 34% of his shots at the rim, 23% in the paint, 40% on jumpers, and 3% on 3s (while actually making 7 of 18 corner 3s). Also, he only averaged one point less per game. One last thing on Gasol vs. Aldridge. LaMarcus is the number one option on his team, and Gasol is the number 2 and sometimes 3 option. If Pau got the same number of shots, his scoring would be very similar to LaMarcus.

improbus
07-01-2012, 08:56 PM
Actually, that was the following Fall. It was the Rasheed Wallace heist that Joe Dumars performed at the '04 deadline, one that the Pacers could have/should have just as easily performed, that propelled the Pistons past the Pacers and onto their ensuing championship.

Other than that, I wholeheartedly agree with your post.:thumbup:

Rasheed again, I do love that man. Sorry about the year mix up. I always get the two year/single season thing wrong. The same applies to he National Championship game in College Football and the Super Bowl. I can never remember is the Bengals made the Super Bowl for the 1988 or 1989 season...

Scrap Irony
07-01-2012, 09:22 PM
And actually, the Portland and Indiana situations highlight the one fatal weakness of the NBA. Portland and Indiana are stuck in the dreaded middle ground. They havent bottomed out to get a LeBron, Durant, or Wade in the draft, but they arent good enough to lure the top free agents. If you don't have at least one A+ player, you have almost no chance to win it all. Right now, there are only a few players that I can see leading their teams to a finals victory:
LeBron
Durant
Kobe (maybe, his window might have closed)
Dwight (if he gets his head straight)
Rose (he needs more help)
Dirk (only if he sobers up from last years championship)

This is a very, very good point, though I would probably be comfortable insisting Rondo be added to that group after the playoffs he just had. Dude was Oscar-Robertson-good.

Over the next five years, I might add:
Davis in NOLA (that Davis/ Rivers/ Gordon nucleus is really young and really talented, with inside, outside, and driving abilities)
Cousins in Sacramento (assuming they can find a guard that can actually, y'know, pass the ball-- love TRobinson's game as a fourth option double-double machine)
Blake Griffin and Chris Paul in LA might be rightthere if Odom can find his old school game lost somewhere between LA and Dallas (though they might be one dead-eye shooter short)

Beyond that, yeah, there's little hope for anyone else.

improbus
07-01-2012, 09:37 PM
This is a very, very good point, though I would probably be comfortable insisting Rondo be added to that group after the playoffs he just had. Dude was Oscar-Robertson-good.

Over the next five years, I might add:
Davis in NOLA (that Davis/ Rivers/ Gordon nucleus is really young and really talented, with inside, outside, and driving abilities)
Cousins in Sacramento (assuming they can find a guard that can actually, y'know, pass the ball-- love TRobinson's game as a fourth option double-double machine)
Blake Griffin and Chris Paul in LA might be rightthere if Odom can find his old school game lost somewhere between LA and Dallas (though they might be one dead-eye shooter short)

Beyond that, yeah, there's little hope for anyone else.
And that is a real shame. But, I guess the NFL is that way with QB's (with the 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens filling the Pistons role). MLB is harder to pin down because no one player has the same impact that a QB and NBA star can have. The NHL is way too unpredictable.

improbus
07-01-2012, 09:40 PM
I also don't want it to look like I am disparaging LaMarcus. He is a very good player. I would like to see him rebound more for a guy his size and take a few less jumpers, but he can definitely be the second guy on an champ.

Revering4Blue
07-01-2012, 10:58 PM
Free Agency Primer: Forwards & Centers

http://www.behindthebasket.com/btb/2012/6/30/free-agency-primer-forwards-centers.html

Free Agency Primer: The Guards

http://www.behindthebasket.com/btb/2012/6/30/free-agency-primer-the-guards.html

texasdave
07-01-2012, 11:10 PM
And actually, the Portland and Indiana situations highlight the one fatal weakness of the NBA. Portland and Indiana are stuck in the dreaded middle ground. They havent bottomed out to get a LeBron, Durant, or Wade in the draft, but they arent good enough to lure the top free agents.

Can you throw my Houston Rockets into that mix? Seems like every year they are finishing with a just-barely winning record and finishing 9th in the West. Picking in the middle of the first round is not a winning formula.

Scrap Irony
07-01-2012, 11:12 PM
Can you throw my Houston Rockets into that mix? Seems like every year they are finishing with a just-barely winning record and finishing 9th in the West. Picking in the middle of the first round is not a winning formula.

Especially when they pick forward after forward after forward.

texasdave
07-01-2012, 11:41 PM
Especially when they pick forward after forward after forward.


It's a forward-thinking organization. :laugh:

Scrap Irony
07-01-2012, 11:43 PM
And that is a real shame. But, I guess the NFL is that way with QB's (with the 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens filling the Pistons role). MLB is harder to pin down because no one player has the same impact that a QB and NBA star can have. The NHL is way too unpredictable.

It's been this way since the beginning of the NBA, though. Mikan, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Moses, Dr. J., Jordan, The Dream, The Admiral and Duncan-- if you don't have a superstar-- a top five, dominant type of bell weather Top Guy-- you don't have a chance.

For the life of me, I don't know why GMs don't continually cycle through on three to five-year plans of rebuild, compete, tear down, and repeat.

Were I Houston and I fail in my attempts to obtain Howard, for example, I'd then turn my attention to dealing my flotsam for picks and late-career expiring contracts. The more picks the better. Keep enough players to get into the lottery. Suck for a couple of years. Really, really suck.

If you can't suck enough--if you don't end up with a top five pick, overpay in talent and middling players to move up.

This past draft, for example, I'm fairly certain Sacramento would have given up the fifth pick for the number 12 pick, Kyle Lowry and Luis Scola. I'd have taken on John Salmons' onerous contract too. I'd have then gone with one of the young guys with the biggest ceiling. In this case, Andre Drummond.

With Drummond there, you build your team around him. Sign a veteran guy to mentor him who has a non-stop motor. Deal just about everyone else. In Houston, Martin would go for multiple picks. I'd probably sign Dragic as a PG because there are so many good point guards right now, it's less important to have a great one. Same thing with power forwards (aside from, again, the Top Guys). Since Houston already has 400 power forwards, I'd have picked one of the younger guys and stuck with him for a year. Patrick Patterson, welcome to the starting lineup.

So Houston now has three starters and a bunch of crap. Courtney Lee surprises as a starting guard, plays well, so you deal him at the trading deadline for Boston's number one. John Salmons plays adequately enough to earn looks from other teams. Deal him.

You're looking to suck again.

But while you suck, you're teaching Drummond everything. You run your offense through him. Deal with the turnovers. Deal with the growing pains. Make sure he's happy. Make him the face of your franchise.

A second year in the lottery, trading up again, you get the third pick. Shabazz Muhammed, you're my starting SG.

Now, you've got your Guy and your Second. Dragic is still there, solid as a PG. You've got cap space, so that's when you're looking for a good SF-- someone who can play. You can overpay there, too. And it doesn't matter if he's a little creaky, a little old.

Focus on SG, SF, and C. Hope and pray for lottery luck. Pick young talent. Grab PGs and PFs off the scrap heap unless you luck into a great one.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

5TimeWSChamps
07-02-2012, 02:47 AM
Huge TWolves fan here, and this has been an interesting offseason so far.

Batum offer sheet is regarded to be 4 years, $44 million. No idea if Portland can/will match with the offer to Hibbert out htere

improbus
07-02-2012, 07:17 AM
It's been this way since the beginning of the NBA, though. Mikan, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Moses, Dr. J., Jordan, The Dream, The Admiral and Duncan-- if you don't have a superstar-- a top five, dominant type of bell weather Top Guy-- you don't have a chance.

For the life of me, I don't know why GMs don't continually cycle through on three to five-year plans of rebuild, compete, tear down, and repeat.

Were I Houston and I fail in my attempts to obtain Howard, for example, I'd then turn my attention to dealing my flotsam for picks and late-career expiring contracts. The more picks the better. Keep enough players to get into the lottery. Suck for a couple of years. Really, really suck.

If you can't suck enough--if you don't end up with a top five pick, overpay in talent and middling players to move up.

This past draft, for example, I'm fairly certain Sacramento would have given up the fifth pick for the number 12 pick, Kyle Lowry and Luis Scola. I'd have taken on John Salmons' onerous contract too. I'd have then gone with one of the young guys with the biggest ceiling. In this case, Andre Drummond.

With Drummond there, you build your team around him. Sign a veteran guy to mentor him who has a non-stop motor. Deal just about everyone else. In Houston, Martin would go for multiple picks. I'd probably sign Dragic as a PG because there are so many good point guards right now, it's less important to have a great one. Same thing with power forwards (aside from, again, the Top Guys). Since Houston already has 400 power forwards, I'd have picked one of the younger guys and stuck with him for a year. Patrick Patterson, welcome to the starting lineup.

So Houston now has three starters and a bunch of crap. Courtney Lee surprises as a starting guard, plays well, so you deal him at the trading deadline for Boston's number one. John Salmons plays adequately enough to earn looks from other teams. Deal him.

You're looking to suck again.

But while you suck, you're teaching Drummond everything. You run your offense through him. Deal with the turnovers. Deal with the growing pains. Make sure he's happy. Make him the face of your franchise.

A second year in the lottery, trading up again, you get the third pick. Shabazz Muhammed, you're my starting SG.

Now, you've got your Guy and your Second. Dragic is still there, solid as a PG. You've got cap space, so that's when you're looking for a good SF-- someone who can play. You can overpay there, too. And it doesn't matter if he's a little creaky, a little old.

Focus on SG, SF, and C. Hope and pray for lottery luck. Pick young talent. Grab PGs and PFs off the scrap heap unless you luck into a great one.

Rinse, lather, repeat.
But, can you sell tickets to come see Drummond learn how to play basketball? That is why teams don't do what the Sonics/Thunder did.

texasdave
07-02-2012, 10:41 AM
Huge TWolves fan here, and this has been an interesting offseason so far.

Batum offer sheet is regarded to be 4 years, $44 million. No idea if Portland can/will match with the offer to Hibbert out htere

May we have our coach back? McHale can be on a plane and heading north by day's end. :)

Scrap Irony
07-02-2012, 02:14 PM
Your coach likely grabbed C Omer Asik with an offer sheet of $25.1 million for three years. Asik's per minute numbers are fantastic, with rebounds and blocks his forte. Asik cannot hit a free throw to save his life. He's shown an ability to pass the ball too, but he's a turnover waiting to happen and a foul machine.

Raw is the word, I think.

He'll have to be the starter for that money, with Greg Smith likely backing him up.

Asik C
Scola PF
Parson SF
Martin SG
Lowry PG

Scrap Irony
07-02-2012, 02:29 PM
Huge TWolves fan here, and this has been an interesting offseason so far.

Batum offer sheet is regarded to be 4 years, $44 million. No idea if Portland can/will match with the offer to Hibbert out htere

They supposedly love him in Portland, and he profiles to be their starter playing major minutes (35+).

I'm guessing, since they're relatively safe regarding cap space, Portland would match the max offer.

Were I the T'Wolves, I'd focus on a shooting guard and a C. Why not deal with Houston? It makes sense, as Adelman knows the personnel. Both Luis Scola and Kevin Martin would look good in Minnesota. Neither are apparently happy with McHale and could be given away for pennies on the dollar.

5TimeWSChamps
07-02-2012, 09:44 PM
They supposedly love him in Portland, and he profiles to be their starter playing major minutes (35+).

I'm guessing, since they're relatively safe regarding cap space, Portland would match the max offer.

Were I the T'Wolves, I'd focus on a shooting guard and a C. Why not deal with Houston? It makes sense, as Adelman knows the personnel. Both Luis Scola and Kevin Martin would look good in Minnesota. Neither are apparently happy with McHale and could be given away for pennies on the dollar.

Well, they offered Hibbert a max deal at 4/$58 mil.

They won't have the money to match Batum if the Pacers don't match Hibbert's deal I believe, unless they start waiving players

Betterread
07-02-2012, 10:11 PM
Well, they offered Hibbert a max deal at 4/$58 mil.

They won't have the money to match Batum if the Pacers don't match Hibbert's deal I believe, unless they start waiving players

Are you saying Paul Allen won't pony up to keep Batum? Or will Portland worry about having 3 max players (LA, Hibbert and Batum) with Lilliard and Leonard becoming potential cornerstones in a few years but having no means to keep them?

improbus
07-02-2012, 10:23 PM
Are you saying Paul Allen won't pony up to keep Batum? Or will Portland worry about having 3 max players (LA, Hibbert and Batum) with Lilliard and Leonard becoming potential cornerstones in a few years but having no means to keep them?

LA, Batum, and Aldridge would be the worst big money threesome in the NBA.

5TimeWSChamps
07-02-2012, 10:24 PM
Are you saying Paul Allen won't pony up to keep Batum? Or will Portland worry about having 3 max players (LA, Hibbert and Batum) with Lilliard and Leonard becoming potential cornerstones in a few years but having no means to keep them?

Proposed cap is $59 mil next year

Player 2012/13 2013/14 2014/15 2015/16
Brandon Roy $16,359,805 $17,779,458 $0 $0
LaMarcus Aldridge $13,000,000 $14,100,000 $15,200,000 $0
Wesley Matthews $6,505,320 $6,875,480 $7,245,640 $0
JJ Hickson $3,357,569 $0 $0 $0
Nicolas Batum $3,166,230 $0 $0 $0
Shawne Williams $3,158,000 $0 $0 $0
Luke Babbitt $1,892,280 $2,902,757 $4,078,373 $0
Elliot Williams $1,442,880 $2,373,537 $3,436,881 $0
Nolan Smith $1,404,960 $1,503,000 $2,394,279 $3,450,156
Kurt Thomas $1,352,181 $0 $0 $0
TOTALS: $45,115,426 $38,754,938 $22,445,640 $0


If they sign Hibbert to 4/$65 mil, they will have to dump some other players in order to free up enough space to get Batum at $11 mil per

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/portland.htm

Betterread
07-02-2012, 10:27 PM
I follow you. Blatum would really fit nicely with the Wolves. I like him a lot more than Jamal Crawford.

improbus
07-02-2012, 10:28 PM
Proposed cap is $59 mil next year

Player 2012/13 2013/14 2014/15 2015/16
Brandon Roy $16,359,805 $17,779,458 $0 $0
LaMarcus Aldridge $13,000,000 $14,100,000 $15,200,000 $0
Wesley Matthews $6,505,320 $6,875,480 $7,245,640 $0
JJ Hickson $3,357,569 $0 $0 $0
Nicolas Batum $3,166,230 $0 $0 $0
Shawne Williams $3,158,000 $0 $0 $0
Luke Babbitt $1,892,280 $2,902,757 $4,078,373 $0
Elliot Williams $1,442,880 $2,373,537 $3,436,881 $0
Nolan Smith $1,404,960 $1,503,000 $2,394,279 $3,450,156
Kurt Thomas $1,352,181 $0 $0 $0
TOTALS: $45,115,426 $38,754,938 $22,445,640 $0

If they sign Hibbert to 4/$65 mil, they will have to dump some other players in order to free up enough space to get Batum at $11 mil per

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/portland.htm

I'm pretty sure Roy doesn't count because he was amnestied. The Blazers will still have to pay him the money, but it doesn't count towards the cap.

5TimeWSChamps
07-02-2012, 10:29 PM
I'm pretty sure Roy doesn't count because he was amnestied. The Blazers will still have to pay him the money, but it doesn't count towards the cap.

Yeah, Roy isn't included in that $45 mil number for next year.

He's technically still signed, if you click the link it will show up as it is

improbus
07-02-2012, 10:30 PM
The Hawks are getting really interesting, they seem to have shipped Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams, their two worst contracts, and may have entered the Dwight Howard sweepstakes. It also seems that Deron is staying in Brooklyn.

5TimeWSChamps
07-02-2012, 10:54 PM
The Hawks are getting really interesting, they seem to have shipped Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams, their two worst contracts, and may have entered the Dwight Howard sweepstakes. It also seems that Deron is staying in Brooklyn.

If they don't tender Teague after next year, they only have Al Horford on the books at $12 mil.

They can sign Dwight Howard and Chris Paul with no problems

Scrap Irony
07-03-2012, 12:28 AM
The Nets with Johnsonm Lopez, and Williams have three solid players plus MarShon Brooks. But who's going to play PF? Who can they afford?

That's such a poorly run organization.

5TimeWSChamps
07-03-2012, 12:33 AM
The Nets with Johnsonm Lopez, and Williams have three solid players plus MarShon Brooks. But who's going to play PF? Who can they afford?

That's such a poorly run organization.

Guessing they will end up resigning Kris Humphries. They also have Gerald Wallace

Scrap Irony
07-03-2012, 12:42 AM
Deron Williams PG
Joe Johnson SG
Gerald Wallace SG
PF?
Robin Lopez C

MarShon Brooks G
Tyshayn Taylor PG

That's their entire team right there. The two foreign guys don't look like they're going to come over. And, assuming Lopez and Williams sign for the money expected, they're over the cap already.

5TimeWSChamps
07-03-2012, 12:51 AM
So I'm playing around with ESPN's Trade Machine:

Who says no?

Minnesota Timberwolves get:

Pau Gasol

Los Angeles Lakers get:

Dwight Howard
Derrick Williams
J.J. Barea
Brad Miller's non-guaranteed contract (Not sure buyout off top of my head)

Orlando Magic get:

Andrew Bynum
Martell Webster's non-guaranteed contract ($600k buyout)

5TimeWSChamps
07-03-2012, 12:52 AM
I absolutely do not want Gasol, BTW. Just messing around with the trade machine

Scrap Irony
07-03-2012, 01:53 AM
That works for all three teams, IMO.

Nice job. (Assuming the T'Wolves still want Gasol to play hybrid C/PF with Love.)

5TimeWSChamps
07-03-2012, 01:59 AM
I like this version more:

TWolves get:
Andrew Bynum
Von Wafer

Lakers get:
Dwight Howard
Brad Miller's non-guaranteed contract
Martell Webster's non-guaranteed contract

Orlando gets:
Pau Gasol
Derrick Williams

5TimeWSChamps
07-03-2012, 02:11 AM
^ And a trade like that would be the only way I move Derrick Williams

Scrap Irony
07-03-2012, 02:18 AM
Don't think Orlando does it though.

5TimeWSChamps
07-03-2012, 02:22 AM
Don't think Orlando does it though.

Not in that form, Minny would also send the Memphis 1st they own in 2013 and their own 1st in 2014 to the deal

BillDoran
07-03-2012, 08:06 AM
They were very shortsighted and petty with both Oden and Roy (I get the feeling Roy retired to get away from Portland)...

I know this is pages back and now off topic, but I can't but help mention how absurd it is to suggest he retired to leave the city. As a Blazers fan and a someone who lived in the city and still has connections there, I can assure you that's not the case. (If you have any intel to back up your speculation, I'd be happy to read it.)

He was unquestionably "the man" on that team, signed to a max contract, playing in the NBA city closest to his hometown. Portland absolutely adored Roy, and from all indications the love was mutual.

He retired because he was extremely frustrated with his knees. The pain was supposedly unbearable, he often couldn't practice, and his minutes were limited as a result.

It will be hard to watch Roy play elsewhere, but I wish him the best and would be thrilled, if not with a taste of bittersweet, to see him return to his old form.

5TimeWSChamps
07-03-2012, 08:09 AM
Hopefully in Minnesota

improbus
07-03-2012, 08:27 AM
I know this is pages back and now off topic, but I can't but help mention how absurd it is to suggest he retired to leave the city. As a Blazers fan and a someone who lived in the city and still has connections there, I can assure you that's not the case. (If you have any intel to back up your speculation, I'd be happy to read it.)

He was unquestionably "the man" on that team, signed to a max contract, playing in the NBA city closest to his hometown. Portland absolutely adored Roy, and from all indications the love was mutual.

He retired because he was extremely frustrated with his knees. The pain was supposedly unbearable, he often couldn't practice, and his minutes were limited as a result.

It will be hard to watch Roy play elsewhere, but I wish him the best and would be thrilled, if not with a taste of bittersweet, to see him return to his old form.
I wasn't talking about the city, more the organization.

http://zigsports.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/greg-oden-brandon-roy-what-what-happened/

BillDoran
07-03-2012, 09:06 AM
I wasn't talking about the city, more the organization.

http://zigsports.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/greg-oden-brandon-roy-what-what-happened/

The organization as a whole, primarily upstairs, isn't exactly a bedrock of honesty and candidness, but I think that often gets more credit than it's due. That said Paul Allen and Larry Miller are not particularly likeable folks.

I have little doubt that there's some truth to Ziegler's accusations, but to think Portland wasn't considering the long-game in dealing with Roy's knees seems silly. Was he rushed back on demand of management for the 2011 playoffs? Hard to say. But it would be unspeakably foolish for an organization a year into a max contract to rush the star player back at peril of his future.

Allen and Miller have made some tremendously stupid moves, usually from a PR standpoint, but the team was built around Roy, to the point of input in moves, and that amount of influence and respect leave it hard for me to believe he wanted to leave town so badly as to retire.

improbus
07-03-2012, 10:04 AM
The organization as a whole, primarily upstairs, isn't exactly a bedrock of honesty and candidness, but I think that often gets more credit than it's due. That said Paul Allen and Larry Miller are not particularly likeable folks.

I have little doubt that there's some truth to Ziegler's accusations, but to think Portland wasn't considering the long-game in dealing with Roy's knees seems silly. Was he rushed back on demand of management for the 2011 playoffs? Hard to say. But it would be unspeakably foolish for an organization a year into a max contract to rush the star player back at peril of his future.

Allen and Miller have made some tremendously stupid moves, usually from a PR standpoint, but the team was built around Roy, to the point of input in moves, and that amount of influence and respect leave it hard for me to believe he wanted to leave town so badly as to retire.
I don't have any direct information about his disdain for the Blazers front office and it is perfectly possible that his retirement was entirely clear of any of my insinuations. But, they are on their 4th GM in a the last two years, running off Pritchard and Rich Cho (who both have jobs as GM's again) and their owner is mercurial to say the least. They hired an entirely new assistant coaching staff (the loss of Monty Williams was huge).

It is all circumstantial of course, so I am most likely wrong.

BillDoran
07-03-2012, 03:01 PM
I don't have any direct information about his disdain for the Blazers front office and it is perfectly possible that his retirement was entirely clear of any of my insinuations. But, they are on their 4th GM in a the last two years, running off Pritchard and Rich Cho (who both have jobs as GM's again) and their owner is mercurial to say the least. They hired an entirely new assistant coaching staff (the loss of Monty Williams was huge).

It is all circumstantial of course, so I am most likely wrong.

I totally get what you're saying, and it's undoubtedly true. It's a dysfunctional organization and it starts at the very top, but, I guess all I'm saying is the Roy/City of Portland relationship was akin to a Barry Larkin and Cincinnati (yes, I realize how that turned out) or a Bernie Kosar and Cleveland type deal, where a player is the city's athletic identity. Roy got the credit for dragging the Blazers back to relevance.

Here's hoping Hibbert ends up in Portland. I think it would be overpaying him, but four years of a Top 6-7 NBA Center is something I'm willing to see my team spend some cash on.

Still have a long way to go though. The Lillard and, to a lesser extent, Barton picks have me excited about the rookies. Leonard's a wild card as far as I'm concerned.

Scrap Irony
07-03-2012, 05:32 PM
News before Independence Day:

The Celtics look to have signed Jason Terry to a three-year deal. Nice sixth man there. Wonder if that means Ray Allen is done in BeanTown?

Phoenix looks like the leader for Goran Dragic and will pay him pretty big money.

Landry Fields is probably headed to Toronto for around $7 million per year. Huge overpay, but strategic move by the Raptors, as it hurts the Knicks with Steve Nash, whom Toronto wants desperately.

Jeremy Lin might move on to Houston to play PG. He's being courted today and tomorrow.

Nets ink Spanish League star, Mirza Teletovic, a PF, to their full mid-level exemption. (Which would theoretically mean Howard becomes impossible to afford.)

Like Terry as a player, but I wonder how much he has left. Looks to me like he's going to be the sixth man with Bradley starting alongside Rondo. Bye bye, Ray Allen. (IMO) If Jeff Green re-signs (which looks probable), that team looks solid, with a very good first six player, plus the youth of Sullinger, Melo, and JuJuan Johnson.

I think they need a true backup center (Siemsma?) and another power forward (one of Houston's castoffs?) and they'll be ready to challenge for the Eastern Conference Crown yet again.

improbus
07-03-2012, 06:03 PM
I wasn't talking about the city, more the organization.

http://zigsports.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/greg-oden-brandon-roy-what-what-happened/

What I found so confusing about this article was that this would seem to be one of the areas where a team with a deep pocketed owner could excel. It's not like the training staff is part of the salary cap. I hope I am wrong about the Roy thing, because Blazer fans are great.

NJReds
07-03-2012, 07:03 PM
Landry Fields is probably headed to Toronto for around $7 million per year. Huge overpay, but strategic move by the Raptors, as it hurts the Knicks with Steve Nash, whom Toronto wants desperately.

Jeremy Lin might move on to Houston to play PG.

Knicks will match on Lin ... Not on Fields. Toronto overpaid.

improbus
07-03-2012, 07:19 PM
Knicks will match on Lin ... Not on Fields. Toronto overpaid.

Jalen Rose joked that Jeremy Lin better not get more millions than games played.

BillDoran
07-03-2012, 08:03 PM
What I found so confusing about this article was that this would seem to be one of the areas where a team with a deep pocketed owner could excel. It's not like the training staff is part of the salary cap. I hope I am wrong about the Roy thing, because Blazer fans are great.

Don't try to understand Paul Allen. There's no use, you'll just end up with a headache. Just know that he used to own the world's largest yacht; so big it had its own helipad.

improbus
07-03-2012, 08:14 PM
Don't try to understand Paul Allen. There's no use, you'll just end up with a headache. Just know that he used to own the world's largest yacht; so big it had its own helipad.

And then my man Roman Abramovich bought one with a missile defense system and a sub.

5TimeWSChamps
07-03-2012, 09:27 PM
Deron back to Brooklyn.

5 years, $100 mil

improbus
07-03-2012, 09:34 PM
What's funny is that the NBA offseason often seems way more popular than the season itself. Maybe it is because most NBA seasons produce a predictable end and the offseason transactions are often unpredictable, but it is a strange phenomenon.

Revering4Blue
07-03-2012, 09:56 PM
The Rockets withdrew their qualifying offer to swingman Courtney Lee, making him an unrestricted free agent.

The Rockets withdrew their offer because had he accepted, because according to beat writer Jonathan Feigen it would have taken them out of the running for Jeremy Lin, Omer Asik, and long-shot Eric Gordon. Goran Dragic isn't getting any cheaper, either. Yahoo! Sports' Marc Spears reports that Lee is getting interest from the Clippers, Pacers, Bulls, Mavs and Wizards, as he has become a hot name in a short amount of time -- the antithesis to inefficient, one-dimensional free agents like Jamal Crawford and Nick Young.

Source: Marc Stein on Twitter

Granted, Morey appears to have a clue, but I really question this.

5TimeWSChamps
07-03-2012, 09:59 PM
Hmm, The Wolves need to go after him now

5TimeWSChamps
07-03-2012, 10:33 PM
http://www.csnnw.com/pages/landingdwight?Source-says-Nic-Batum-wants-no-part-of-t=1&blockID=735074&feedID=8351

Good stuff here. Looks like Batum is done with Portland

jmac
07-03-2012, 11:08 PM
What's funny is that the NBA offseason often seems way more popular than the season itself. Maybe it is because most NBA seasons produce a predictable end and the offseason transactions are often unpredictable, but it is a strange phenomenon.

Well said. :thumbup:

Revering4Blue
07-03-2012, 11:41 PM
The Phoenix Suns have agreed to extend a 4-year maximum offer sheet worth $58 million to New Orleans Hornets restricted free agent guard Eric Gordon, according to ESPN.com and the Arizona Republic.

The offer sheet cannot be officially signed until July 11, after the NBA's 10-day moratorium is complete. The Hornets will then have three days to match the offer, which they are expected to do.

5TimeWSChamps
07-04-2012, 01:13 AM
So this link is saying Batum's signed an offer sheet iwth Minny. Not sure how I feel about $12.5 mil per though

http://www.thescore.com/home/articles/298853-report-t-wolves-extend-offer-sheet-to-batum

Scrap Irony
07-04-2012, 01:17 AM
Batum would solve a lot of problems in Minnesota.

They still need a big though, yes?

5TimeWSChamps
07-04-2012, 01:20 AM
Batum would solve a lot of problems in Minnesota.

They still need a big though, yes?

Backup big behind Love/Pekovic

They are talking to Jordan Hill and Steisma

Revering4Blue
07-04-2012, 01:33 AM
Backup big behind Love/Pekovic

They are talking to Jordan Hill and Steisma

Not sure if they'll land him, but a shotblocker like Stiemsma is the type of big man that they need.

I'm not sure that Hill can help in that regard.

BillDoran
07-04-2012, 07:27 AM
So this link is saying Batum's signed an offer sheet iwth Minny. Not sure how I feel about $12.5 mil per though

http://www.thescore.com/home/articles/298853-report-t-wolves-extend-offer-sheet-to-batum

The previous report said Minnesota was open to a sign-and-trade. Would Derrick Williams straight up be a possibility? He didn't exactly light the world on fire last year (15/8 per36 at 41% from the field and 27% from 3).

improbus
07-04-2012, 08:41 AM
Do any of the stars changing teams actually know what the Heat did? All three of the stars took less money than the max to make sure they could sign each other and have some room left over for role players. Even with those savings, their teams was fairly thin. So, how does Deron expect to get Dwight, and Joe Johnson, and have any room for other players? How did Amare and Carmelo expect to have enough room to sign other players?

5TimeWSChamps
07-04-2012, 08:47 AM
The previous report said Minnesota was open to a sign-and-trade. Would Derrick Williams straight up be a possibility? He didn't exactly light the world on fire last year (15/8 per36 at 41% from the field and 27% from 3).

No, I think Minny is thinking Ridnour and a 1st. I doubt D-Will enters the convo. JmO

improbus
07-04-2012, 08:50 AM
I was looking at some contracts and saw some real whoppers. The Bobcats are goings to be spending $27 million combined on Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas, and Dasagna Diop. Golden State is paying $19 million for Richard Jefferson and Andres Biedrins. Detroit is paying 26 million to Corey Maggette, Rodney Stuckey, and Charlie Villanueva. Wow. That is only going to the letter G.

BillDoran
07-04-2012, 08:58 AM
No, I think Minny is thinking Ridnour and a 1st. I doubt D-Will enters the convo. JmO

Yeah, I've seen Ridnour's name floated. Obviously, I was hoping for a little more. After a mildly inauspicious rookie season, what's the temperature on Derrick Williams in Minnesota?


I was looking at some contracts and saw some real whoppers. The Bobcats are goings to be spending $27 million combined on Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas, and Dasagna Diop. Golden State is paying $19 million for Richard Jefferson and Andres Biedrins. Detroit is paying 26 million to Corey Maggette, Rodney Stuckey, and Charlie Villanueva. Wow. That is only going to the letter G.

That's alotta bills for alotta suck.

Actually, a lot of mediocrity. I think this is where teams get hurt the most. Rarely are the max guys (unless you max out a guy like Joe Johnson), especially with the new 4-5 year limit, the cap issues. IMO, it's overpaying by half these middling/rotation guys.

How did Joe Dumars go from golden boy GM to clueless schmuck so quickly? Was that mid-aughts run luck?

Revering4Blue
07-04-2012, 03:09 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski is reporting the sign-and-trade deal that would send Steve Nash from the Suns to the Knicks for a package likely including Iman Shumpert, Toney Douglas and Dan Gadzuric is in the "critical stages.

texasdave
07-04-2012, 03:41 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski is reporting the sign-and-trade deal that would send Steve Nash from the Suns to the Knicks for a package likely including Iman Shumpert, Toney Douglas and Dan Gadzuric is in the "critical stages.

What affect does that have on Jeremy Lin? If any?

Nash and Stoudemire back together again.

Revering4Blue
07-04-2012, 03:57 PM
What affect does that have on Jeremy Lin? If any?

Nash and Stoudemire back together again.

Report: Rockets to offer Jeremy Lin four-years, $30 million 'poison pill' contract


The source said the Rockets will offer Lin $5 million, $5.2 million and then plan to jack up the third and fourth years to as much as $10 million.

That's what's called a "poison pill," folks. By jacking up the back-end of the contract, the Rockets make it a very difficult decision for the Knicks to match any offer for him

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19496657/report-rockets-to-offer-jeremy-lin-four-years-30-million

NJReds
07-04-2012, 04:55 PM
Report: Rockets to offer Jeremy Lin four-years, $30 million 'poison pill' contract



http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19496657/report-rockets-to-offer-jeremy-lin-four-years-30-million

Knicks will probably match, regardless of Nash. Lin means more financially due to the Chinese market then he will cost in luxury tax money. Personally, as a Knicks fan, I'd let him walk at that price. And I'd keep Shumpert and sign Kidd.

NJReds
07-04-2012, 09:37 PM
Nash to the Lakers. Enjoy Landry Fields, Raps. Knicks will probably match Lin & try to sign Kidd or Felton.

5TimeWSChamps
07-04-2012, 09:50 PM
Yeah, I've seen Ridnour's name floated. Obviously, I was hoping for a little more. After a mildly inauspicious rookie season, what's the temperature on Derrick Williams in Minnesota?



The problem with Williams last year is that he played PF. And he didn't get real consistent minutes because he was playing behind Love.

Management basically asked him to drop down to about 220 if he wants to play the 3 next year. Otherwise he's going to be a tweener for Minnesota.

improbus
07-04-2012, 10:09 PM
Nash to the Lakers. Enjoy Landry Fields, Raps. Knicks will probably match Lin & try to sign Kidd or Felton.

Somehow, the Lakers have become bigger title contenders while becoming even worse at defending the pick and roll....

Razor Shines
07-05-2012, 12:47 AM
I might have to become a full on laker fan this year. They now I have the two most entertaining players in the nba, IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Scrap Irony
07-05-2012, 01:09 AM
Nash can't play defense-- at all. He likely won't be able to run an offense with Kobe dominating the ball-- and Kobe won't give up the ball. For anyone. Nash is also 38, and the Lakers gave up their entire drafts for the next two years. (Kudos to the Sun for that. Nice sign-and-trade there, IMO.)

But with all of that said, I still think I like this deal for the Lakers. Nash is a deadeye shooter, a great team and glue guy, and willing to sublimate his ego for his team. He'll find a way to make it work.

cincrazy
07-05-2012, 09:47 AM
Nash can't play defense-- at all. He likely won't be able to run an offense with Kobe dominating the ball-- and Kobe won't give up the ball. For anyone. Nash is also 38, and the Lakers gave up their entire drafts for the next two years. (Kudos to the Sun for that. Nice sign-and-trade there, IMO.)

But with all of that said, I still think I like this deal for the Lakers. Nash is a deadeye shooter, a great team and glue guy, and willing to sublimate his ego for his team. He'll find a way to make it work.

I think Nash and Kobe can work it out. There may be issues at first, but I think Kobe will allow Nash to have the ball in his hands enough to be successful. If Kobe trusts you, you're fine. He didn't trust ANYONE on that team last season. Hence the ball-hogging.

I think the Nash deal may help reinvigorate the career of Pau Gasol. Certainly can't hurt.

Scrap Irony
07-05-2012, 10:10 AM
I think Nash and Kobe can work it out. There may be issues at first, but I think Kobe will allow Nash to have the ball in his hands enough to be successful. If Kobe trusts you, you're fine. He didn't trust ANYONE on that team last season. Hence the ball-hogging.

I think the Nash deal may help reinvigorate the career of Pau Gasol. Certainly can't hurt.

If that's the case, Kobe's never trusted anyone in his career.

Kobe's never played well without dominating the ball. He's going to have to learn how to play without the ball, or, more likely, Nash will become a spot-up shooter and occasional ball handler.

cincrazy
07-05-2012, 10:35 AM
If that's the case, Kobe's never trusted anyone in his career.

Kobe's never played well without dominating the ball. He's going to have to learn how to play without the ball, or, more likely, Nash will become a spot-up shooter and occasional ball handler.

Kobe's also never had a point guard like Steve Nash. Why would he not dominate the ball when Fisher is his PG? I think he's more than capable of adjusting to having Nash. It may take a while, but they'll figure it out.

Razor Shines
07-05-2012, 10:52 AM
But with all of that said, I still think I like this deal for the Lakers. Nash is a deadeye shooter, a great team and glue guy, and willing to sublimate his ego for his team. He'll find a way to make it work.
I agree with this part. I'm not sure what Kobe will do but I think Nash will adapt. I also think it will be interesting to see the lakers offense when Kobe is out of the game. I think it'll look like a typical Nash team and Kobe will have some pressure on him to "get with the program", from fans, not so much from the Lakers.

I'm not sure that can make it to the finals but i do think they'll be better than they were last year.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Scrap Irony
07-05-2012, 10:52 AM
Superstars, especially those of Kobe's ilk, are notorious for not wanting to adjust. It's part of what makes them so great on the basketball court. And it's not just Fisher, it's every point guard he's ever played with.

True, none of them have been as good as Bash was earlier in his career. And the Lakers might very well work out a plan to have them play well together. Expect to see Nash's assist numbers take a dive. He won't be the same 15/10 guy he's been for a few years, as he's not the last option as the shot clock ticks down.

His shooting ability and occasional ball handling wizardry will help the Lakers, but will it be enough to overtake OKC and San Antonio?

I don't know if I'd go that far yet.

BillDoran
07-05-2012, 11:14 AM
Superstars, especially those of Kobe's ilk, are notorious for not wanting to adjust. It's part of what makes them so great on the basketball court. And it's not just Fisher, it's every point guard he's ever played with.

True, none of them have been as good as Bash was earlier in his career. And the Lakers might very well work out a plan to have them play well together. Expect to see Nash's assist numbers take a dive. He won't be the same 15/10 guy he's been for a few years, as he's not the last option as the shot clock ticks down.

His shooting ability and occasional ball handling wizardry will help the Lakers, but will it be enough to overtake OKC and San Antonio?

I don't know if I'd go that far yet.

I'm hesitant to believe the Spurs will make another run similar to this year. I feel this way every year, but they just seem so damn fragile and old. I suppose only time will tell.

I also think Nash is heady enough to know, going in, that it's going to be Kobe's team and that he'll be riding shotgun. I agree his numbers will dip, but he's clearly making the late-career dive at a championship. Between Kobe, Bynum, and whatever Gasol can provide, they have lots talent, aging as it maybe.

No matter what, adding Nash's as a threat from deep (career 43% from 3) and his ability to make others better makes the Lakers considerably more formidable IMO.

NJReds
07-05-2012, 11:24 AM
Sounds like Kidd will finish his career in Dallas.

That leaves Felton for the Knicks, unless they go after Sessions, which I doubt. Speculation is that the Knicks do a "sign and trade" for Felton, match on Lin and try to use their mid-level exception on Rashard Lewis or Marcus Camby.

Knicks getting killed on Twitter by the so-called experts, but I don't see how they've done anything wrong in this FA market so far. They already got their big name players, everything else is just trying to assemble decent talent around them.

Razor Shines
07-05-2012, 11:38 AM
I can't imagine Rashard Lewis being any kind of help to the knicks. Camby would work. Doesn't need the ball and plays defense.


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NJReds
07-05-2012, 11:50 AM
I can't imagine Rashard Lewis being any kind of help to the knicks. Camby would work. Doesn't need the ball and plays defense.


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I'm not sure Lewis is an answer, but he'd come off the bench. The Knicks are going to lose Landry Fields to Toronto and they still haven't signed JR Smith and/or Novak.

Camby would be fine, but he wants to start, and he's not starting in NY. Only way he comes to the Knicks is if all his other options fall through.

Scrap Irony
07-05-2012, 12:18 PM
I like Camby for the Knicks. Provides great defense behind a great defender and allows for a gambling style by those around the perimeter. (And between Carmelo and Stoudamire, they have to have a big that can erase mistakes.) Lewis would be a backup behind Anthony and has to be a better answer than Renaldo Blackman. If he were to sign for veteran minimum, he's serviceable. A career 39% 3-point shooter, he's not a bad option for limited minutes.

But the Knicks need a backcourt. Lin is okay, but seriously turnover-prone. Felton played well in New York in 2011 (17/9/3.5); perhaps between them, New York has a solid duo. Both JR Smith (who they need to re-sign) and Iman Shumpert showed flashes; perhaps they also find a nice, productive balance.

Right now, they're okay. With health, they should be better-- though how much better largely depends on old dogs learning new tricks (i.e., Amare playing defense, Chandler willing to shoot the 15-footer on a pick-and-pop, Carmelo playing interested from the get-go). I'm guessing Chris Paul is looking to New York next summer. With Paul, this team is a title contender. Maybe they're just playing out the 2013 string?

(Actually, New York is the floor of what LA's deal for Nash could be. Carmelo found it frustrating to play with Lin, whose style demanded the ball. Lin found it difficult to play with Carmelo. There's only so much orange to go around.)

KoryMac5
07-05-2012, 03:11 PM
Mavs with a terrible free agency period. First they let Tyson Chandler walk last year with the hopes of making a run at Williams. Unfortunately Williams chose to stay in Brooklyn instead of coming home to Dallas. Then Cuban guessed wrongly that the other owners in the league would curb spending based on the new CBA and the tax threshold penalties that can be pretty severe depending on how many yrs in a row you violate them. Looks to me by the contracts being handed out the Mark guessed wrong. Dallas is left at the dance with no date looking like a very old team.

NJReds
07-05-2012, 05:47 PM
ESPN reports that Kidd had a change of heart, and will join the NY Knicks. I wonder if Tyson Chandler gave him a call. I think his pass-first style fits the Knicks, and he'll be a good mentor to Lin (assuming the Knicks match, if Lin ever actually signs Houston's deal).

Puffy
07-05-2012, 06:42 PM
ESPN reports that Kidd had a change of heart, and will join the NY Knicks. I wonder if Tyson Chandler gave him a call. I think his pass-first style fits the Knicks, and he'll be a good mentor to Lin (assuming the Knicks match, if Lin ever actually signs Houston's deal).

From what I have read they used Lin as part of deal to get Kidd - - come here, mentor Lin and make us Eastern elite.

Now, go get Camby to back up Chandler and Stat and resign Novak and Smith and the Knicks look much better.

5TimeWSChamps
07-05-2012, 09:43 PM
Blazers just complete meeting w/Batum and agent in downtown Portland and say they will match any offer and will not engage in sign-and-trade

Damnit

improbus
07-05-2012, 10:16 PM
From what I have read they used Lin as part of deal to get Kidd - - come here, mentor Lin and make us Eastern elite.

Now, go get Camby to back up Chandler and Stat and resign Novak and Smith and the Knicks look much better.

You better hope Kidd does a whole lot more mentoring than playing. He shot 36% last year and had a 13 PER (league average is 15). He was absolutely dreadful. BTW, this Knicks team would have been devastating in 2006.

improbus
07-05-2012, 10:19 PM
I think Nash and Kobe can work it out. There may be issues at first, but I think Kobe will allow Nash to have the ball in his hands enough to be successful. If Kobe trusts you, you're fine. He didn't trust ANYONE on that team last season. Hence the ball-hogging.

I think the Nash deal may help reinvigorate the career of Pau Gasol. Certainly can't hurt.
That is strange, because Bynum is the 2nd best center in the game and Gasol is a top 5 PF. What exactly will Kobe respect?

cincrazy
07-05-2012, 11:55 PM
That is strange, because Bynum is the 2nd best center in the game and Gasol is a top 5 PF. What exactly will Kobe respect?

You really think he respected those guys last year? Pau played like a big wuss and God knows where Bynum's head is half the time. Kobe called out Pau on more than one occasion, and Bynum has never been a Kobe favorite. That team was a mess last year.

jmac
07-06-2012, 11:30 PM
Ray Allen to add some bench power to the Champs. Sort of surprised he is leaving Boston.

Scrap Irony
07-07-2012, 01:41 AM
Allen will help that team a bunch. At crunchtime, look for Allen, Wade, LeBron, Bosh, and Battier to play.

That's enough, IMO, to give them another ring, assuming no injuries and no one does anything monstrous between now and the playoffs. (Howard going to LA without giving up Gasol, for example.)

5TimeWSChamps
07-08-2012, 09:03 PM
Minnesota did sign Brandon Roy and Nic Batum

Revering4Blue
07-08-2012, 09:30 PM
NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- Orlando has agreed to a sign-and-trade deal, sending restricted free agent forward Ryan Anderson to New Orleans for forward Gustavo Ayon, a person familiar with the agreement said.

The person spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the NBA's trade moratorium prevents clubs from announcing such moves before July 11.

Scrap Irony
07-08-2012, 09:59 PM
Why Orlando would do that is hard to fathom. Love that deal for New Orleans. Anderson gives the Hornets a very nice perimeter scorer to team with Davis, Jack, and Rivers. That's three or four 15 point a game guys, two of whom can shoot from 3 at a decent percentage. Add a small forward that can slash and a big who can rebound and throw around his weight, and you've got a solid .500 or better team.

(And perhaps Gordon, though I'd do a sign-and-trade deal in that instance, as Gordon's gone on record as saying he wants to play in Phoenix. Perhaps New Orleans would take Marcin Gortat and a couple 1st rounders for him.)

They still need a small forward (Courney Lee would be an ideal fit).

Scrap Irony
07-08-2012, 10:00 PM
Minnesota did sign Brandon Roy and Nic Batum

Be interesting if Portland declines the option on Batum.

5TimeWSChamps
07-08-2012, 10:20 PM
Be interesting if Portland declines the option on Batum.

I hope they do a S&T for Ridnour +pick.

Would be nice to free up an additional 4 mil in salary to see if they could swing Courtney Lee and Steisma by chance as well

Rubio/Barea
Lee/Roy
Batum/Budinger
Love/Williams
Pekovic/Steimsma

Dream offseason, that team would make the playoffs

Scrap Irony
07-08-2012, 10:29 PM
Rubio/Barea
Lee/Roy
Batum/Budinger
Love/Williams
Pekovic/Steimsma

Dream offseason, that team would make the playoffs

That team would be a top four seed even in the West, IMO.

The Lakers are probably better (though 4/5 of their starting lineup are old, older, and ancient.)
OKC has a better roster.

Who else matches up?

Not San Antonio.
Memphis? I don't think so.
The Clips have better top end talent, but Minnesota's bench would be much better. Call it a push.

No one else is close.

BillDoran
07-09-2012, 07:22 AM
I hope they do a S&T for Ridnour +pick.

Would be nice to free up an additional 4 mil in salary to see if they could swing Courtney Lee and Steisma by chance as well

Rubio/Barea
Lee/Roy
Batum/Budinger
Love/Williams
Pekovic/Steimsma

Dream offseason, that team would make the playoffs

Just my impression, but I think Batum and Budinger are similar, if not redundant, players. Both hyper-athletic SFs who do little more than jack 3s. Batum is just 23 though and has all the ability in the world. His defense is wildly overrated though (some metrics have him as a negative contributor), as he's more of a flashy, weak-side shot blocking, lane-gambling defender.

I think a change of scenery may serve Batum well. Maybe Adelman could tap all that potential.

I'd really like the think the Blazers could get more than Ridnour and some mid-first picks though.

5TimeWSChamps
07-09-2012, 07:30 AM
Just my impression, but I think Batum and Budinger are similar, if not redundant, players. Both hyper-athletic SFs who do little more than jack 3s. Batum is just 23 though and has all the ability in the world. His defense is wildly overrated though (some metrics have him as a negative contributor), as he's more of a flashy, weak-side shot blocking, lane-gambling defender.

I think a change of scenery may serve Batum well. Maybe Adelman could tap all that potential.

I'd really like the think the Blazers could get more than Ridnour and some mid-first picks though.

I know Batum did not adapt at all to McMillan's offensive philosophy where he basically stood in teh corner and shot 3's.

If anyone's gonna get the best out of him, it will be Adelman.

In regards to Budinger, his numbers under Adelman in Houston were much better than they were under McHale also.

NJReds
07-09-2012, 03:06 PM
If Dwight Howard ends up getting dealt to Brooklyn for Brook Lopez, picks and journeymen on 1-year contracts, will the league veto it for "basketball reasons," like they did with Chris Paul to the Lakers?

improbus
07-09-2012, 03:30 PM
If Dwight Howard ends up getting dealt to Brooklyn for Brook Lopez, picks and journeymen on 1-year contracts, will the league veto it for "basketball reasons," like they did with Chris Paul to the Lakers?

No. The league doesn't have an ownership stake in one of the participating teams.

Scrap Irony
07-09-2012, 03:50 PM
If Dwight Howard ends up getting dealt to Brooklyn for Brook Lopez, picks and journeymen on 1-year contracts, will the league veto it for "basketball reasons," like they did with Chris Paul to the Lakers?

To be fair, it also looks like Kris Humphries will be somehow involved.

And Lppez, when healthy, isn't chicken-feed.

His lifetime numbers: 17.4 ppg / 7.5 rebounds / 1.6 assists / 1.6 blocks / 34 mpg
Howard's lifetime numbers: 18.4 ppg/ 13 rebounds/ 1.5 assists/ 2.2 blocks/ 36 mpg

Howard's obviously a better player, but we're not talking Harold Minor and Michael Jordan here. Lopez is a top three center when healthy (behind Bynum and Howard). Think Mitch Richmond to Jordan.

Add in Humphries (who's a double-double machine), MarShon Brooks (who is solid) three or four draft picks, and I could see a deal here. (Of course, I think Howard is largely overrated as a player.)

Were I the Magic, I'd take Bynum and Gasol, then deal both for draft picks and truly rebuild. I'd guess Houston would take Bynum for two forwards already on their team and two first rounders. I'm guessing the T'Wolves would deal Derrick Williams and their first-rounder for Gasol as well.

NJReds
07-09-2012, 04:20 PM
To be fair, it also looks like Kris Humphries will be somehow involved.

And Lppez, when healthy, isn't chicken-feed.

His lifetime numbers: 17.4 ppg / 7.5 rebounds / 1.6 assists / 1.6 blocks / 34 mpg
Howard's lifetime numbers: 18.4 ppg/ 13 rebounds/ 1.5 assists/ 2.2 blocks/ 36 mpg

Howard's obviously a better player, but we're not talking Harold Minor and Michael Jordan here. Lopez is a top three center when healthy (behind Bynum and Howard). Think Mitch Richmond to Jordan.

Add in Humphries (who's a double-double machine), MarShon Brooks (who is solid) three or four draft picks, and I could see a deal here. (Of course, I think Howard is largely overrated as a player.)

Were I the Magic, I'd take Bynum and Gasol, then deal both for draft picks and truly rebuild. I'd guess Houston would take Bynum for two forwards already on their team and two first rounders. I'm guessing the T'Wolves would deal Derrick Williams and their first-rounder for Gasol as well.


Sorry. Lopez is not a good defender or rebounder and has endured foot problems, which usually spells doom for 7-footers. For reference, here's the Lakers-Rockets-Hornets deal that was nullified:


Los Angeles Lakers: PG Chris Paul (from NO Hornets)

New Orleans Hornets: F Lamar Odom (from LA Lakers), SG Kevin Martin (from HOU Rockets), PF Luis Scola (from HOU Rockets), PG Goran Dragic (from HOU Rockets) ... 1st round pick and 2nd round pick.

Houston Rockets: PF Pau Gasol (from LA Lakers)

That's a pretty fair deal comparatively. They probably would've flipped Odom for picks.

5TimeWSChamps
07-09-2012, 08:34 PM
http://i45.tinypic.com/1ibn6v.jpg

Revering4Blue
07-09-2012, 09:14 PM
The Indiana Pacers plan to match the Portland Trail Blazers' offer to restricted free agent Roy Hibbert, the Indianapolis Star reported on Monday.

ESPN has confirmed the Pacers' plans for Hibbert.

The $58 million question?

Is it the correct move?

Revering4Blue
07-09-2012, 09:19 PM
According to sources the Nets would receive Howard, Jason Richardson, Chris Duhon and Earl Clark in the proposed deal. The Magic would get Brook Lopez, Luke Walton, Damion James, Shelden Williams, Armon Johnson and three first-round picks -- two from the Nets and a lottery protected first from the Clippers. The Cavs would get Kris Humphries, Quentin Richardson, Sundiata Gaines, a first round pick from the Nets and three million in cash. The Clippers would receive MarShon Brooks.

IMO, this proposed return for Orlando reeks.

5TimeWSChamps
07-09-2012, 09:45 PM
LMAO, that is a horrible trade.

improbus
07-09-2012, 10:23 PM
The Magic are in a horrific position. They really have three possible outcomes from a trade.
1) They get back another superstar and try to compete immediately.
2) They get back a bunch of guys and fall into the middle of he pack (also known as Rocket-Land)
3) They completely blow it up, and accumulate as many high draft picks as possible.

The problem with the proposed Nets deal is that it puts them in between 2 and 3. They get Lopez, who is at least serviceable. But, all of he draft picks are pretty lousy. The Nets picks would be worthless because they would probably be a 2, 3, or 4 seed in the East. The other pick is technically the Knicks pick, and they are most likely a 5, 6, or 7 seed in the East. So, the Magic are getting significantly worse, but they aren't getting the right kind of value in the form of lottery picks.

5TimeWSChamps
07-09-2012, 10:26 PM
The Magic are in a horrific position. They really have three possible outcomes from a trade.
1) They get back another superstar and try to compete immediately.
2) They get back a bunch of guys and fall into the middle of he pack (also known as Rocket-Land)
3) They completely blow it up, and accumulate as many high draft picks as possible.

The problem with the proposed Nets deal is that it puts them in between 2 and 3. They get Lopez, who is at least serviceable. But, all of he draft picks are pretty lousy. The Nets picks would be worthless because they would probably be a 2, 3, or 4 seed in the East. The other pick is technically the Knicks pick, and they are most likely a 5, 6, or 7 seed in the East. So, the Magic are getting significantly worse, but they aren't getting the right kind of value in the form of lottery picks.

And with the Lopez deal, they don't even get any salary cap relief really.

Houston is the best possible option for them

Scrap Irony
07-09-2012, 11:29 PM
And with the Lopez deal, they don't even get any salary cap relief really.

Houston is the best possible option for them

Houston's better than New Jersey, but what's Houston giving up that's better than Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol?

5TimeWSChamps
07-10-2012, 12:54 AM
Houston's better than New Jersey, but what's Houston giving up that's better than Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol?

Players on rookie deals that aren't going to bolt after 1 year like Bynum will.

Scrap Irony
07-10-2012, 01:07 AM
But they're not nearly as good.

Hold Bynum for a few months, deal him for new draft picks, if you're Orlando. Send him to Denver for JeVale McGee and the Manimal, Kenneth Faried.

Deal he and Jameer Nelson to Boston for Rajon Rondo, Jared Sullinger, and Fab Melo. Doc would do that; he doesn't like Rondo. Ainge would do it, too. He's been trying to trade the guy for three years.

Bynum's one of the two or three best centers in the game. The rookies Houston has are... well, they're rookies. Lamb might be okay. Jones could be decent. White could play... in college. You don't know what you've got there.

You know what you've got in Bynum.

Surround him with love. Give him the ball anytime he wants it. Structure your offense around him. (Basically, play it the same way you have for Howard.) Show him the love. Get him to sign an extension. If he's not happy, deal him for picks later.

5TimeWSChamps
07-11-2012, 01:11 AM
and free agency has officially begun

5TimeWSChamps
07-11-2012, 06:48 AM
And I just want to post this year because this was awesome.

Ricky Rubio ties the game, Kevin Love hits the Game-Winning Shot vs Clippers (01.20.2012) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU2ipHGUigE&feature=related)

improbus
07-11-2012, 09:57 AM
It is sounding like the Cavs pulled out of a potential Dwight deal because people were complaining about them being involved in creating another superteam (although it also possible that Kris Humphries is unwilling to sign the necessary deal to make it work). If that is true, it is sad. Teams get involved in facilitating these deals because they want to show that they are willing and able traders. It reminds me a lot of fantasy sports. Every league has guys who are fair traders and will look at a deal, guys who will always try to trick other owners, and guys who simply refuse to trade. It is much better for a team to have the reputation of the first guy, not the other two. I really hope this isn't true about Cleveland.

improbus
07-12-2012, 08:47 AM
I just downloaded the NBA Summer League App. I have a problem.

BillDoran
07-12-2012, 09:00 AM
I just downloaded the NBA Summer League App. I have a problem.

I am no doctor, but I concur with this diagnosis.

Rumors have Batum going to the land of mosquito bites and frostbite, the Blazers getting two first-rounders from Minnesota, along with Korver from the Bulls, with the Bulls getting a second and getting out from under the $5 mil they owe Kutcher with a jump shot.

As a Blazers fan, I'd be ecstatic with this trade. There's a decent chance one of those first-round picks could be lottery balls, and I think the purported contract offer, that strangely has never seen the light of day, is an overpay for Batum.

The Blazers would really be pushing back their window of competitiveness though. Not much to hope for in the coming seasons, were the trade to go through.

5TimeWSChamps
07-12-2012, 12:29 PM
I am no doctor, but I concur with this diagnosis.

Rumors have Batum going to the land of mosquito bites and frostbite, the Blazers getting two first-rounders from Minnesota, along with Korver from the Bulls, with the Bulls getting a second and getting out from under the $5 mil they owe Kutcher with a jump shot.

As a Blazers fan, I'd be ecstatic with this trade. There's a decent chance one of those first-round picks could be lottery balls, and I think the purported contract offer, that strangely has never seen the light of day, is an overpay for Batum.

The Blazers would really be pushing back their window of competitiveness though. Not much to hope for in the coming seasons, were the trade to go through.

Well, if Portland is seriously going to match whatever offer comes their way, then Kahn would be stupid to offer it while still negotiating a S&T.

If no S&T is worked out, then the offer sheet will be submitted.

Darko was amnestied today as well to clear up the CAP space needed to sign Batum to the offer sheet if no S&T.

5TimeWSChamps
07-12-2012, 02:36 PM
Batum signs offer sheet. Just waiting for Portland to match.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Scrap Irony
07-12-2012, 02:48 PM
If that's the deal, it's a brilliant one for Portland. Korver and Babbit can platoon at the small forward spot, with Matthews as the SG while they look to the draft picks over the next couple of years.

Minnesota makes out well, too. They're going for it now and have a nice team (though it's a little light on big men).

BillDoran
07-12-2012, 04:03 PM
Well, if Portland is seriously going to match whatever offer comes their way, then Kahn would be stupid to offer it while still negotiating a S&T.

If no S&T is worked out, then the offer sheet will be submitted.

Darko was amnestied today as well to clear up the CAP space needed to sign Batum to the offer sheet if no S&T.

The reason I mention it is many in Portland thought Batum's agent was possibly bluffing in regard to the Timberwolves offer. And there wouldn't of been anything stupid about signing the offer on July 11, it just would have started the clock ticking.

As of now, I'd expect the Blazers to match. I don't think Olshey wants to pony up that kind of money for Batum, but he's made it clear that he's even less inclined to let talent walk out the door with no return.

Revering4Blue
07-12-2012, 09:07 PM
The Rockets have decided to waive PF Luis Scola using the amnesty clause in order to clear salary space to make a run at Dwight Howard, according to Yahoo's Adrian Wojnarowski.

Gallen5862
07-12-2012, 09:42 PM
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/07/12/3379023/bobcats-add-sessions-pursue-humphries.html

LAS VEGAS D.J Augustin is gone at point guard, free agent Ramon Sessions will replace him, and power forward Kris Humphries and center Brendan Haywood could end up Charlotte Bobcats, too.
The Bobcats came to terms with Sessions Thursday, then rescinded a $4 million-plus qualifying offer to four-year Bobcat Augustin. That made Augustin an unrestricted free agent, and immediately Augustin signed a one-year, $3.5 million deal with the Indiana Pacers.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/07/12/3379023/bobcats-add-sessions-pursue-humphries.html#storylink=cpy

Razor Shines
07-13-2012, 05:48 PM
I just downloaded the NBA Summer League App. I have a problem.

I like watching summer league games but Chris Webber makes some of the games nearly un watchable.

Scrap Irony
07-13-2012, 05:56 PM
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/07/12/3379023/bobcats-add-sessions-pursue-humphries.html

LAS VEGAS D.J Augustin is gone at point guard, free agent Ramon Sessions will replace him, and power forward Kris Humphries and center Brendan Haywood could end up Charlotte Bobcats, too.
The Bobcats came to terms with Sessions Thursday, then rescinded a $4 million-plus qualifying offer to four-year Bobcat Augustin. That made Augustin an unrestricted free agent, and immediately Augustin signed a one-year, $3.5 million deal with the Indiana Pacers.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/07/12/3379023/bobcats-add-sessions-pursue-humphries.html#storylink=cpy

Augustin might not make a bad backup as a point guard. (I guess.) But, last year, he couldn't shoot, didn't defend, and wouldn't pass. Turnover-prone, too. Too short to be a combo guard and can't dribble or pass well enough to be a point.

Bleh.

Revering4Blue
07-13-2012, 06:14 PM
Augustin might not make a bad backup as a point guard. (I guess.) But, last year, he couldn't shoot, didn't defend, and wouldn't pass. Turnover-prone, too. Too short to be a combo guard and can't dribble or pass well enough to be a point.

Bleh.

Collison wouldn't, by all accounts, accept a back-up role. Hence, he and Dantay Jones were jettisoned to Dallas for Ian Mahinmi.

Plus, Lance Stephenson can also handle the ball and pairing him with Augustin on the second unit may actually work.

Factor in Gerald Green, and the Pacers' bench, a key factor in their playoff demise, is much improved.

Revering4Blue
07-15-2012, 12:09 AM
Per Rotoworld.


The Knicks acquired Raymond Felton and Kurt Thomas via sign-and-trade on Saturday, sending Jared Jeffries and Dan Gadzuric to the Trail Blazers.

Translation: The Knicks will NOT match Houston's offer sheet for Jeremy Lin.


The Raptors officially have Landry Fields under contract for three years and $19 million, after the Knicks declined to match their offer sheet on Saturday.

RBA
07-15-2012, 07:57 PM
Jason Kidd arrested in single car accident(DWI).

Razor Shines
07-15-2012, 08:40 PM
Jason Kidd arrested in single car accident(DWI).

Kidd will be tried as an adult.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RBA
07-16-2012, 04:29 AM
Kidd will be tried as an adult.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:laugh:

Chip R
07-16-2012, 10:04 AM
Per Rotoworld.

Translation: The Knicks will NOT match Houston's offer sheet for Jeremy Lin.

One thing the NBA can do is market a player outside NYC or LA or Chicago. The NY media is probably crying in their respective beers now that Lin is gone but as long as Lin plays well, he should get plenty of publicity.

NJReds
07-16-2012, 10:24 AM
The NY media is probably crying in their respective beers now that Lin is gone but as long as Lin plays well, he should get plenty of publicity.

Not really. Most are commenting on how absurd it is to pay a guy who's played 30 games more than $25M. Add the luxury tax, and it's over $40M cost to NY.

Lin's a lot of hype. I have no idea why Houston would let two cheaper, better PG options go (Lowry and Dragic). Seems like they're more interested in selling shirts than winning. Oh and chasing that Dwight Howard dream that may never come true.

Also, Lin's camp is surprised and they want the Knicks to match. Should've thought about that before signing the renegotiated offer sheet.

From a marketing standpoint, Lin will make the Knicks a lot of cash, and his third year deal, an expiring $14M contract, would be a valuable trade chip, if necessary. But my gut feeling is that the Knicks owner (Dolan) can afford to match, but feels that Lin's camp was disloyal when it renegotiated the offer sheet to a much higher third year number. Dolan takes things personally, and in this instance may choose to keep his checkbook in his pocket.

Other "Linsanity" issues w/the Knicks include bailing out on his teammates in the playoffs because he was only "85%" ... and Linsanity going to his head a bit. Some scouts say that Lin isn't better than Felton, and the Knicks made a shrewd move here.

Scrap Irony
07-16-2012, 11:42 AM
Lin's 23 and could blossom into a top ten PG.

That contract is about going rate for that type of player.

Too, he sells jerseys and puts fannies in the seats, both needed in Houston.

The only way New York wins the title is if a guy blossoms into the upper echelon group. Lin was their best shot at doing that. I understand the luxury tax concerns and the doubt about Lin, but Lin pays not only for himself, but I'd bet his merchandising and ticket interest would it off and then some.

It's not a great move, but it's a good move my Morey.

BTW, despite all the deals, if Houston doesn't grab Howard, they have another one of those 8th seed/ 9th place teams in the West:

Omer Asick C
Donatas Motiejunas PF
Chandler Parsons/ Terrence Jones SF
Kevin Martin SG
Jeremy Lin PG

Bench
Toney Douglas PG
Jeremy Lamb SG
Gary Forbes/ Jon Leuer SF
Marcus Morris/ Patrick Patterson/ Royce White PF
Jerome Jordan/ Josh Larrison/ Greg Smith C

BillDoran
07-16-2012, 03:36 PM
BTW, despite all the deals, if Houston doesn't grab Howard, they have another one of those 8th seed/ 9th place teams in the West:

Omer Asick C
Donatas Motiejunas PF
Chandler Parsons/ Terrence Jones SF
Kevin Martin SG
Jeremy Lin PG

Bench
Toney Douglas PG
Jeremy Lamb SG
Gary Forbes/ Jon Leuer SF
Marcus Morris/ Patrick Patterson/ Royce White PF
Jerome Jordan/ Josh Larrison/ Greg Smith C

I don't see where the points are coming from in that group. Just my opinion, but I don't see that team approaching .500, especially with McHale at the helm.

Scrap Irony
07-16-2012, 04:00 PM
Lin and Martin will both go over 15 ppg and could very well go over 20 apiece. Lamb, as a backup, could end up playing 20 mpg+ and averaging 7-10. Motiejunas is a sleeper that most experts think could go 15/10 with starter's minutes. The Jones/ Parsons/ Forbes/ Leuer small forward quartet all have the ability to post 15 given starter's minutes or double figures if given the sixth man spot. Asik will get double figures in put-backs alone. Douglas, Patterson, White, and Larrison all can put up double figure-ish minutes win 25 mpg or so.

They're not going to be special, but they'll be decent.

Maybe.

Very, very young.

improbus
07-16-2012, 04:06 PM
Lin's 23 and could blossom into a top ten PG.

That contract is about going rate for that type of player.

Too, he sells jerseys and puts fannies in the seats, both needed in Houston.

The only way New York wins the title is if a guy blossoms into the upper echelon group. Lin was their best shot at doing that. I understand the luxury tax concerns and the doubt about Lin, but Lin pays not only for himself, but I'd bet his merchandising and ticket interest would it off and then some.

It's not a great move, but it's a good move my Morey.

BTW, despite all the deals, if Houston doesn't grab Howard, they have another one of those 8th seed/ 9th place teams in the West:

Omer Asick C
Donatas Motiejunas PF
Chandler Parsons/ Terrence Jones SF
Kevin Martin SG
Jeremy Lin PG

Bench
Toney Douglas PG
Jeremy Lamb SG
Gary Forbes/ Jon Leuer SF
Marcus Morris/ Patrick Patterson/ Royce White PF
Jerome Jordan/ Josh Larrison/ Greg Smith C

That is a pretty terrible basketball team. There are 3 (or 4) question marks in the starting lineup. Can Lin be a consistently good player? Will Donatas play well in the League? Is Asik ready for full time duty and can he provide any offense?

Scrap Irony
07-16-2012, 05:21 PM
According to PER, Houston lost of its top players.

Lin's PER (20.0) trumps both Lowry's (18.9) and Dragic's (18.0) by a fairly substantial margin. He's a better rebounder and defender than either point guard. Too, he's got upside neither of the other two has touched. That 20.0 PER is nearly superstar level, btw. With a new-found confidence and extended time on the court, he may even jump a point or two. He's only 23.

Too, between Jerome Johnson, Josh Harrellson, and Asik, the Rocket's center position looks to be around league average, While Dalembert and Camby had higher PERs last season, there's not much difference between them. Too, because of youth, the former trio has upside.

Scola grades out as slightly more than league average as a PF. Montiejunas has been, according to many scouts, a major surprise and a kid (21) who could really blossom this year. In his first game in the states, we went for 25. Add Royce White and others, and the upside looks like a good move.

Small forward Parsons should be a bit better than last season's rookie season. Add Jones-- who's gone for 17/8/2/2 in limited Summer League minutes-- and that should more than replace Chase Budinger's contributions from last season.

Martin profiles to be better, as last season was his worst in five years. So does an injured Patrick Patterson and (hopefully) a rededicated Marcus Morris.

I don't think they'll be all that good, per se. But, with the talent on hand-- Lin and Martin, the young forwards, and centers-- they'll be okay. When compared to the others in the same boat in the West.

Minnesota looks better on paper, but they only won 30-ish games last season. Phoenix and Dallas took two steps in the wrong direction. That was their primary competition for the 8th, 9th, and 10th spots going forward. Sure, both LA teams, San Antonio, OKC, and perhaps Memphis (depending on injuries) are better. But Houston is right there-- perhaps a notch below-- Portland (especially if Batum goes to Minnesota), Utah, and Denver.

BillDoran
07-16-2012, 05:42 PM
According to PER, Houston lost of its top players.

Lin's PER (20.0) trumps both Lowry's (18.9) and Dragic's (18.0) by a fairly substantial margin. He's a better rebounder and defender than either point guard. Too, he's got upside neither of the other two has touched. That 20.0 PER is nearly superstar level, btw. With a new-found confidence and extended time on the court, he may even jump a point or two. He's only 23.

Too, between Jerome Johnson, Josh Harrellson, and Asik, the Rocket's center position looks to be around league average, While Dalembert and Camby had higher PERs last season, there's not much difference between them. Too, because of youth, the former trio has upside.

Scola grades out as slightly more than league average as a PF. Montiejunas has been, according to many scouts, a major surprise and a kid (21) who could really blossom this year. In his first game in the states, we went for 25. Add Royce White and others, and the upside looks like a good move.

Small forward Parsons should be a bit better than last season's rookie season. Add Jones-- who's gone for 17/8/2/2 in limited Summer League minutes-- and that should more than replace Chase Budinger's contributions from last season.

Martin profiles to be better, as last season was his worst in five years. So does an injured Patrick Patterson and (hopefully) a rededicated Marcus Morris.

I don't think they'll be all that good, per se. But, with the talent on hand-- Lin and Martin, the young forwards, and centers-- they'll be okay. When compared to the others in the same boat in the West.

Minnesota looks better on paper, but they only won 30-ish games last season. Phoenix and Dallas took two steps in the wrong direction. That was their primary competition for the 8th, 9th, and 10th spots going forward. Sure, both LA teams, San Antonio, OKC, and perhaps Memphis (depending on injuries) are better. But Houston is right there-- perhaps a notch below-- Portland (especially if Batum goes to Minnesota), Utah, and Denver.

I can see some room for optimism with all that youth, but that lineup is chock full of question marks and junk.

Unless Asik improves markedly, that center position is brutal. You can't sell me otherwise.

No clue what you're going to get from Montiejunas, but I don't like an untested 222 lb. 21-year-old as my starting PF. Royce White could be a nice piece, but he's a huge unknown now. Really like him as a passer though.

Parsons scored almost 10/game on 51% eFG, but I just can't sell myself on him being threat, especially when he's your third option. Terrence Jones, another unknown.

Kevin Martin's a nice player on the wrong side of his career trajectory. I wouldn't look for a bump in any efficiency numbers. Perhaps aggregates will see an uptick, but that'll just be usage.

Call me skeptical, but I'm not expecting Lin to duplicate last year's performance. I think played out of his mind for a stretch. Don't think he's anywhere near that PER. It sounds like we're going to get the chance to see if he's superstar caliber though, because on this team he's going to run the show.

Throw in McHale's ineptitude as a head coach and this is a sinking ship.

It's pretty obvious what Morey's doing here. Absolutely selling the farm for Howard; collecting young, attractive guys with upside. Even if the deal falls through, you hope a handful of them pan and you've got a lottery pick and some young talent to work with going forward.

In the meantime, hope like hell Lin's cape stays affixed and sit back and count the money.

NJReds
07-16-2012, 05:46 PM
Lin's stats are boosted by D'Antoni's run-and-gun offense. He's a poor defender and a turnover machine, but I'll take your word that he's better defensively than Lowry and Dragic.

On the otherhand, Lin is smart and did improve his game a whole lot as the season progressed. He does have untapped potential.

Scrap Irony
07-16-2012, 05:59 PM
PER adjusts for style of play.

improbus
07-16-2012, 10:48 PM
Lin played very well against some horrific competition at the beginning of his "run". Linsanity happened against New Jersey, Utah, Washington, LAL (Derek Fisher can't stay in front of anyone), Minny, Sactown, Toronto, New Orleans, and Dallas (Kidd is beyond done).
Against Miami: 1-11, 8 turnovers
Against Philly (and Jrue Holiday, an excellent defender): a combined 9-35 with 8 turnovers
Against Rondo: 6-16, 6 turnovers

His PER may be great, but it is out of a ridiculously small sample size. I hope he does well, but he has a ton to prove.

improbus
07-16-2012, 10:58 PM
I actually like what Dallas is doing. They are clearing massive amounts of cap space (and may end up with Dwight anyway after next season) and added some interesting parts. Kaman is a nice player, Elton still does things. He is in the Scott Rolen part of his career, but he still puts up surprisingly solid stats (he almost won me a fantasy league two years ago). Collision is an upgrade from Kidd. That team won't be great, but there are at least 7 legitimate NBA players (and one of the greatest PFs of all time). Next year, they will be at 39 million, with 31 of that in Dirk and Marion and with team options on Vince and Dominique Jones.

improbus
07-16-2012, 11:11 PM
As far as the West next season, it does seem that the bottom is falling out (whereas the East is steadily improving its depth). Portland, Phoenix, and Houston are all hot messes. Utah is puzzling (is Devin Harris that awful a player/teammate), and Sacramento isn't ready (and may never be).

Now, if New Orleans can hold onto Eric Gordon, they become very interesting moving forward, as does Minnesota. As for Golden State, I alternate between loving their roster and absolutely hating it. I love Bogut (when he plays), I love Curry (when he plays), and they have very nice complementary parts, but I don't know if it will actually work.

texasdave
07-17-2012, 03:38 AM
O.J. Mayo announced on his Twitter feed Monday night that he will sign with the Dallas Mavericks, joining a roster that has been drastically overhauled this offseason.

BillDoran
07-17-2012, 06:26 AM
I like this move by the Mavs. I've heard rumors that the deal is in the ballpark of 2 yrs/$8 mil. If that's true, it's a steal. I like Mayo. Not sure why the league seems to be so lukewarm on him.

texasdave
07-17-2012, 10:18 AM
Lakers get Antawn Jamison.

Scrap Irony
07-17-2012, 11:28 AM
Great move for both Jamison and the Lakers. He can do the whole sixth man as a mad bomber off the bench. He doesn't play any defense, but pairing him with Nash and Bryant is inspired.

The cynical part of me thinks the Lakers sign Hill and Jamison's backup at PF and send Pau somewhere else.

NJReds
07-17-2012, 05:22 PM
NY Times reporting (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/18/sports/basketball/knicks-lin-rockets-offer-sheet.html?_r=1&ref=sports) that the Knicks will not be matching Houston's offer to Lin. Knicks haven't confirmed. Dolan is in Las Vegas watching the Summer League with the head coach.

Time will tell if this is a bad move, but I think Dolan's isn't making a business decision, to him it's personal. That's a bad way to run a team, and he's been a horrible owner.



The Knicks plan to cut ties with Jeremy Lin on Tuesday night, according to a person briefed on the decision, ending a brief, spectacular and now bittersweet love affair between the 23-year-old point guard and his adoring fan base. Lin will play next season for the Houston Rockets, who signed him to a three-year, $25.1 million offer sheet that the Knicks have elected not to match.

The Knicks are not expected to announce their decision until this evening, and there is still a chance — albeit incredibly small — that it could be reversed. But as of 4 p.m. the decision had been made and was considered final by those with knowledge of the deliberations. Indeed, the deliberations were said to be over.

5TimeWSChamps
07-17-2012, 09:17 PM
Some Wolves notes...

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Wolf ... 071712?t=2


• Look for the Wolves to get unrestricted free agent forward Jordan Hill unless the Lakers swoop in. It's down to those two teams. Hill had a lengthy discussion when in town with Kahn about his legal troubles. The Wolves feel comfortable signing him right now.

• If Hill does go back to Los Angeles, the Wolves could turn to free agent forward Carl Landry. They've talked to his representative. Landry played for Wolves coach Rick Adelman in Houston.

• The Wolves also continue to maintain dialogue with Anthony Randolph's agent.

• The Wolves expect to get restricted free agent center Greg Stiemsma. Boston is over the cap, so the Wolves feel like they will be able to structure the contract in a fashion such that Celtics general manager Danny Ainge won't be able to match.

• As for getting a wing, the Wolves will sign free agent Courtney Lee if the price is right. But they won't wait long after Thursday morning. If his price is too high, they will move quickly to sign free agent Ronnie Brewer. If Lee waits too long, he won't be a Timberwolf. O.J. Mayo, who chose the Mavericks on Monday night, was never seriously on the Wolves' radar. The Wolves called on Mayo early in free agency but didn't keep in touch in the last few days.

• The Wolves will soon announce their deal with free agent Alexey Shved. It'll be a three-year deal. He impressed the Wolves brass even further in a brief workout last week at Target Center.

• They will do the same with free agent Brandon Roy. While given no guarantee, the source said Roy has every intention of being the starting shooting guard.

• The Andre Iguodala dream can just about die. The source said the Wolves have done a ton of homework on him, and the feedback didn't all register positively. Because of that, they are reluctant to give up assets and pay him $30 million over the next two years. His contract has a player option for 2013-14, which he is expected to opt into.

• While the interest in Scola was genuine, the Wolves never had an interest in forward Elton Brand, who was claimed by the Mavericks.

• As reported previously, the Wolves and Grizzlies have a verbal agreement on a Wayne Ellington-Dante Cunningham trade. It'll be made official once the paperwork is sent into the league office.

• The Wolves' decision-making brass of Kahn, Adelman and Taylor will have another personnel meeting in Las Vegas on Wednesday. The NBA Summer League has Kahn and Adelman there, while Taylor will be there for a Board of Governors league meeting.

WVRed
07-18-2012, 10:47 AM
I like this move by the Mavs. I've heard rumors that the deal is in the ballpark of 2 yrs/$8 mil. If that's true, it's a steal. I like Mayo. Not sure why the league seems to be so lukewarm on him.

Attitude concerns and he has never really scratched the surface on how good he can be.

I've followed OJ Mayo since the 7th grade when he was playing at Rose Hill Christian School in Ashland, KY. At 7th grade, he dominated even at the high school level and went on to do the same in Cincinnati. His teammate at Rose Hill and North College Hill, Bill Walker (who now plays for the Knicks), was declared ineligible for his senior year and went to Kansas State a year early. Mayo went to Huntington High and teamed up with Patrick Patterson. Mayo's senior season was noted for bumping a ref, although you could argue the ref flopped, and throwing the ball into the stands in the national championship game before the game was even over.

OJ is a great talent and could be one of the best, but he has had shady handlers and got USC in a lot of trouble. Throw in a fight with another player while with the Grizzlies and testing positive for a steroid and receiving a 10 game suspension and that's why teams are leery of Mayo.

Puffy
07-18-2012, 11:52 AM
NY Times reporting (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/18/sports/basketball/knicks-lin-rockets-offer-sheet.html?_r=1&ref=sports) that the Knicks will not be matching Houston's offer to Lin. Knicks haven't confirmed. Dolan is in Las Vegas watching the Summer League with the head coach.

Time will tell if this is a bad move, but I think Dolan's isn't making a business decision, to him it's personal. That's a bad way to run a team, and he's been a horrible owner.

He is the second worst owner in all of sports (baseball, basketball, football). Only Donald Sterling is worse, IMO.

improbus
07-18-2012, 02:45 PM
He is the second worst owner in all of sports (baseball, basketball, football). Only Donald Sterling is worse, IMO.

Mike Brown: "Really, I'm out of the bottom two? When did this happen?"

Trademark
07-18-2012, 10:54 PM
Cavs may possibly get Bynum which would be awesome, we would have a sick 1-2 punch with Kyrie & Bynum & would be bavk into the playoffs

"The Cavaliers would land Lakers center Andrew Bynum for a package of draft picks and veteran power forward Anderson Varejao, according to one league source. The Lakers would receive Howard for Bynum. Orlando would get Varejao and draft picks. The source said this was merely the framework of a deal being discussed."

5TimeWSChamps
07-18-2012, 11:55 PM
Blazers matched the Wolves offer for Batum.

Good, Screw Paul Allen and hope he enjoys paying Batum $11.5 mil per when they offered him $6 mil per during the season

BillDoran
07-19-2012, 05:49 AM
Blazers matched the Wolves offer for Batum.

Good, Screw Paul Allen and hope he enjoys paying Batum $11.5 mil per when they offered him $6 mil per during the season

It's nitpicking, but the deal only ends up being 4 years/$43.5 mil. In all his public posturing, Kahn included incentives that were disallowed by the NBA. And Batum was offered $7 mil./year during the season.

One result of the contentious Batum dealings, I now have a healthy distaste for all things Timberwolves.

5TimeWSChamps
07-19-2012, 07:29 AM
It's nitpicking, but the deal only ends up being 4 years/$43.5 mil. In all his public posturing, Kahn included incentives that were disallowed by the NBA. And Batum was offered $7 mil./year during the season.

One result of the contentious Batum dealings, I now have a healthy distaste for all things Timberwolves.

:)

Don't forget, Blazers have to pay Brandon Roy an additional $17 mil since he came out of retirement. Insurance won't cover it now.

Same thing happened to them with Darius Miles.

BillDoran
07-19-2012, 07:37 AM
:)

Don't forget, Blazers have to pay Brandon Roy an additional $17 mil since he came out of retirement. Insurance won't cover it now.

Same thing happened to them with Darius Miles.

We amnestied him. It's not cap money. It's Paul Allen's Microsoft money, which I couldn't care less about.

For the record, the Wolves are a middling Western Conference team. Your star is already showing signs of discontent. Your young, extremely exciting PG, can't shoot, and never shown signs of an ability to do so. And by all accounts, your team is run by a buffoon. Let's not get too uppity. ;)

5TimeWSChamps
07-19-2012, 07:46 AM
We amnestied him. It's not cap money. It's Paul Allen's Microsoft money, which I couldn't care less about.

For the record, the Wolves are a middling Western Conference team. Your star is already showing signs of discontent. Your young, extremely exciting PG, can't shoot, and never shown signs of an ability to do so. And by all accounts, your team is run by a buffoon. Let's not get too uppity. ;)

I dunno about middling. Before Rubio got hurt they were firmly in the playoff hunt despite having ZERO wing players

Revering4Blue
07-19-2012, 08:43 PM
The Celtics have reportedly agreed on a sign-and-trade with the Rockets that will send them SG Courtney Lee for PF JaJuan Johnson, SG E'Twaun Moore, F/C Sean Williams and a second-round pick.

Source: Marc Spears on Twitter per Rotoworld.

texasdave
07-19-2012, 09:02 PM
I am starting to think the Rockets will be playing in the D-League this season.
No Dragic, no Lowry, no Lee, no Scola.

Captain Hook
08-09-2012, 11:34 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8252042/sources-dwight-howard-los-angeles-lakers-four-team-deal-complete

This deal puts the Lakers in a real good position to compete with the Heat for the next few years.Should be a fun rivalry.

ervinsm84
08-10-2012, 12:05 AM
If that deal is approved it's so stupid for Orlando.

1. They don't get rid of Hedo's contract.
2. They dont get even 1 of the 2 best players after dwight in the deal
3. The other 3 teams all are big winners

the Brooklyn deal offered earlier would've been better than this garbage they get back. They traded a clear top 3 player in the league for an ok player, waste of a roster spot in Al Harrington, Vucevic, 3 likely mid to late 1st rd draft picks and Mo Harkless.

After watching Stern veto the CP3 trade, he has to veto this right? They'd be better just letting him play it out and take a 1/100 shot he re-signs with Orlando and having walk away the other 99 times.

Captain Hook
08-10-2012, 12:11 AM
If that deal is approved it's so stupid for Orlando.

1. They don't get rid of Hedo's contract.
2. They dont get even 1 of the 2 best players after dwight in the deal
3. The other 3 teams all are big winners

the Brooklyn deal offered earlier would've been better than this garbage they get back. They traded a clear top 3 player in the league for an ok player, waste of a roster spot in Al Harrington, 3 likely mediocre 1st rd draft picks and Mo Harkless.

After watching Stern veto the CP3 trade, he has to veto this right? They'd be better just letting him play it out and take a 1/100 shot he re-signs with Orlando and having walk away the other 99 times.

He can't veto this trade.The only reason he was able to veto the CP3 trade is because the league owns the team.It was simply the owner vetoing the trade and not Stern acting as commissioner.

ervinsm84
08-10-2012, 12:27 AM
He can't veto this trade.The only reason he was able to veto the CP3 trade is because the league owns the team.It was simply the owner vetoing the trade and not Stern acting as commissioner.
I know that was the reason used in the CP3 trade, but I figured the NBA had some rule that was similar to what MLB had when the commissioner blocked the A's trade for "best interest of the game" or some other non sense that was pulled in the 70's when they tried to sell off Vida Blue, Rollie Fingers and someone else.

Stray
08-10-2012, 01:26 AM
Orlando was holding out and waiting for....this deal? Really?

improbus
08-10-2012, 12:19 PM
Orlando had no negotiating power and it is very difficult to get what they wanted, lottery picks. To get lottery picks, you need to involve a really bad team and send them bad players (the Knicks were professionals at sending away lottery picks for years). It was just not going to happen for them. Afflalo is a tradeable asset and can net them some more freedom in the future.

Chip R
08-10-2012, 12:19 PM
What they didn't get in quality, they sure got in quantity.

Stray
08-10-2012, 03:02 PM
I guess I don't get why they'd turn down the Rockets deal and take this one. Those 3 picks are more than likely going to be in the 20s and how often do those turn into big time players?

At worst you hang onto him and deal him mid season. Dwight was in a position where he had to play hard. Taking this deal makes no sense to me from Orlando's point of view. The Lakers and 76ers are a lot better though.

Revering4Blue
08-10-2012, 07:32 PM
I guess I don't get why they'd turn down the Rockets deal and take this one. Those 3 picks are more than likely going to be in the 20s and how often do those turn into big time players?

At worst you hang onto him and deal him mid season. Dwight was in a position where he had to play hard. Taking this deal makes no sense to me from Orlando's point of view. The Lakers and 76ers are a lot better though.

So are the Nuggets.

The perimeter defense is much improved with Iggy and Brewer at the 2/3.

Revering4Blue
08-10-2012, 07:34 PM
Orlando had no negotiating power and it is very difficult to get what they wanted, lottery picks. To get lottery picks, you need to involve a really bad team and send them bad players (the Knicks were professionals at sending away lottery picks for years). It was just not going to happen for them. Afflalo is a tradeable asset and can net them some more freedom in the future.

Spot-on.

But I still believe that jettisoning Stan Van Gundy was an inane move.

cincrazy
08-10-2012, 08:23 PM
This is why the NBA is a joke. Why should the Magic even have any fans? Shag left. T-Mac left. Howard leaves. And they get NOTHING in return. In baseball, at least if you trade your stars, you can get a legit package in return. And even if you don't, there's still the hope of developing stars in your farm system. Where's that hope in basketball? You need to pray for a once in a generation guy in the draft, like a Durant or LeBron, or you're never competing for a title in a million years.

Captain Hook
08-11-2012, 02:38 AM
This is why the NBA is a joke. Why should the Magic even have any fans? Shag left. T-Mac left. Howard leaves. And they get NOTHING in return. In baseball, at least if you trade your stars, you can get a legit package in return. And even if you don't, there's still the hope of developing stars in your farm system. Where's that hope in basketball? You need to pray for a once in a generation guy in the draft, like a Durant or LeBron, or you're never competing for a title in a million years.

Orlando has had much more success then a great deal many other franchises in the NBA along with countless other franchises in professional leagues.I think maybe someone just doesn't like the NBA or else you're a Celtic fan.

If you let me pick 5 MLB teams for you to take and I'll take the Magic I'd bet my team will make the playoffs before any of your teams do.

ervinsm84
08-11-2012, 02:44 AM
Orlando had no negotiating power and it is very difficult to get what they wanted, lottery picks. To get lottery picks, you need to involve a really bad team and send them bad players (the Knicks were professionals at sending away lottery picks for years). It was just not going to happen for them. Afflalo is a tradeable asset and can net them some more freedom in the future.

Nuggets managed to get a pretty decent haul w/o any negotiating power in a worse spot where a player was open to exactly one team. Hornets got back way more as well with a player open to multiple places. HGH is a top 3 player in the league in his prime. Unquestionably a better asset than Melo and CP3 when their deals went through. I don't understand how a gm can't get remotely close to the value of either of those two deals. The only explanation is the magic GM was completely played in this situation.

If this was truly the best offer they could get between now and Feb, and there's no way it was, why not just wait til the trade deadline and hope fickle dwight gets more fickle and changes his mind and wants to stay in Orlando. This deal improved the other 3 teams so much that I highly doubt if this deal was turned down now, and the Magic GM came knocking at the trade deadline that these 3 teams would say no way not interested.

If they waited, another team between now and then may give them a much better offer than what they are getting now. Or maybe the Lakers don't like where they are at the deadline and say ok we'll give up Pau + Bynum just to make sure they get him.

ervinsm84
08-11-2012, 02:52 AM
Orlando has had much more success then a great deal many other franchises in the NBA along with countless other franchises in professional leagues.I think maybe someone just doesn't like the NBA or else you're a Celtic fan.

If you let me pick 5 MLB teams for you to take and I'll take the Magic I'd bet my team will make the playoffs before any of your teams do.

not really sure what that proves considering

1. one league has a form of a salary cap and the other doesn't have any
2. Making the MLB playoffs is harder than the NBA playoffs

Captain Hook
08-11-2012, 04:43 AM
not really sure what that proves considering

1. one league has a form of a salary cap and the other doesn't have any
2. Making the MLB playoffs is harder than the NBA playoffs

So MLB gets a pass because their rules alow one team to spend over 200 million while other teams spend less then 50 million?

My point is that every professional sports league has a few patheticly ran franchises. It doesn't make the league pathetic. BTW there are far better examples of futility in the NBA then the Orlando Magic.

improbus
08-11-2012, 09:09 AM
Nuggets managed to get a pretty decent haul w/o any negotiating power in a worse spot where a player was open to exactly one team. Hornets got back way more as well with a player open to multiple places. HGH is a top 3 player in the league in his prime. Unquestionably a better asset than Melo and CP3 when their deals went through. I don't understand how a gm can't get remotely close to the value of either of those two deals. The only explanation is the magic GM was completely played in this situation.

If this was truly the best offer they could get between now and Feb, and there's no way it was, why not just wait til the trade deadline and hope fickle dwight gets more fickle and changes his mind and wants to stay in Orlando. This deal improved the other 3 teams so much that I highly doubt if this deal was turned down now, and the Magic GM came knocking at the trade deadline that these 3 teams would say no way not interested.

If they waited, another team between now and then may give them a much better offer than what they are getting now. Or maybe the Lakers don't like where they are at the deadline and say ok we'll give up Pau + Bynum just to make sure they get him.
It seemed fairly obvious that the only thing Orlando wanted in return was lottery picks. But, none of the proposed deals had them in there and so they cut bait and made a deal. Could they have waited and gotten more? Maybe.

Again, it comes down to philosophy. There are two places you want to be as a franchise in the NBA.
1) Currently contending for a title.
2) In line to get a title worthy player.

Look at all of the current title contenders and you will see the same thing pushed them into contention.

Miami: (02-03) - 25-57 - Next season: Draft Dwyane Wade
Seattle/OKC: (06-07) - 31-51 - Next season: Draft Kevin Durant
Chicago: (07-08) - 33-49 - Next season: Draft Derrick Rose
San Antonio: (96-97) - 20-62 - Next Season: Draft Tim Duncan

Now, that leaves two other teams: Boston and LA. First, those teams have been outliers for their entire franchise history. But, Boston got better by bottoming out (and having their old buddy Kevin McHale running the T'Wolves). LA got better by always getting the best player back in their major trades (Shaq/Kobe/Pau/etc...). Orlando is in the opposite position (always trading away the better player).

What was Orlando really going to do? If they get Pau and Bynum, where does that put them in the Eastern Conference? If those two couldn't get out of the second round with Kobe, how would they do with Jameer Nelson and Hedo? That team would probably occupy the dreaded 7 or 8 seed. Darryl Morey just amnestied Luis Scola to get out of that no mans land.

So, Orlando didn't get much back, but they now have a legit shot at getting someone like Shabazz or Jabari Parker. And, in a place like Orlando that is their only real shot at a title.

ervinsm84
08-11-2012, 11:32 AM
It seemed fairly obvious that the only thing Orlando wanted in return was lottery picks. But, none of the proposed deals had them in there and so they cut bait and made a deal. Could they have waited and gotten more? Maybe.

Again, it comes down to philosophy. There are two places you want to be as a franchise in the NBA.
1) Currently contending for a title.
2) In line to get a title worthy player.

Look at all of the current title contenders and you will see the same thing pushed them into contention.

Miami: (02-03) - 25-57 - Next season: Draft Dwyane Wade
Seattle/OKC: (06-07) - 31-51 - Next season: Draft Kevin Durant
Chicago: (07-08) - 33-49 - Next season: Draft Derrick Rose
San Antonio: (96-97) - 20-62 - Next Season: Draft Tim Duncan

Now, that leaves two other teams: Boston and LA. First, those teams have been outliers for their entire franchise history. But, Boston got better by bottoming out (and having their old buddy Kevin McHale running the T'Wolves). LA got better by always getting the best player back in their major trades (Shaq/Kobe/Pau/etc...). Orlando is in the opposite position (always trading away the better player).

What was Orlando really going to do? If they get Pau and Bynum, where does that put them in the Eastern Conference? If those two couldn't get out of the second round with Kobe, how would they do with Jameer Nelson and Hedo? That team would probably occupy the dreaded 7 or 8 seed. Darryl Morey just amnestied Luis Scola to get out of that no mans land.

So, Orlando didn't get much back, but they now have a legit shot at getting someone like Shabazz or Jabari Parker. And, in a place like Orlando that is their only real shot at a title.

I agree wholeheartedly about wanting to bottom out or compete for a title. But getting Pau and Bynum doesn't mean they have to keep both, or even one of them. It's not mandatory to build around them. Those guys would be pretty good assets to try and move around for actual picks and/or accumulating some form of younger talent.

Instead, I think they panicked and got a complete pile of garbage. Bare min they should've been able to get rid of Hedo's contract if they're gonna move dwight.

KoryMac5
08-11-2012, 11:49 AM
The lockout and all those games lost did nothing to solve the NBA's issues. You might as well go back to the drawing board and work on a new CBA. The Lakers will have a luxury tax hit of over 100 million dollars and didn't even bat an eye at doing this deal. The era of the super powers teams is here to stay. Milwaukee, Houston, Toronto you might as well pack it in for the forseeable future. You have no shot.

Scrap Irony
08-11-2012, 12:18 PM
It seemed fairly obvious that the only thing Orlando wanted in return was lottery picks. But, none of the proposed deals had them in there and so they cut bait and made a deal. Could they have waited and gotten more? Maybe.

Houston's did.

The Magic plan to suck this season. Likely next season as well and at least one beyond that. Those lottery picks plus those first round picks of the other teams should allow the team to be competitive in a few years. Harkless and, to a lesser extent, Vuvcevic, are lottery tickets. Perhaps they become starters on a good team, perhaps they get lucky and become stars.

If not, they'll try to get league average starters from the Nugget, Laker, and 76er picks, and they'll hope they get difference-makers from their own picks.

A best case scenario:
Magic suck, but Harkless shows flashes of being very, very good as a SF. Vucevic also shows signs of being a solid center, with good perimeter skills. Aaron Afflalo takes the next step as a bona fide All-Star, while Glen Davis builds on his playoff run by going for 15/8 as the first inside option on offense and primary rebounder. They add a top pick in the draft in Shabazz Muhammed at PG.

Next season, they lose some huge contracts, so they can then play the free agency game.

cincrazy
08-12-2012, 01:47 PM
Normally, I'm a big proponent of building through the draft. NFL. MLB. But the NBA is so much harder to accomplish that. Outside of the top 10 guys, a lot of these guys never make a serious impact. The picks they get in those trades are likely to be in the 20s, and may not even play in the league. And if they do, chances are they're just solid, league average players. That's it.

As far as their own picks are concerned, they have a much better shot of adding a difference-maker. But even that isn't a guarantee. You're relying on the lottery, and even if you DO hit in the lottery, you're praying there's a franchise-changing player sitting there for you, and not Andrew Bogut or Kwame Brown.

improbus
08-12-2012, 09:51 PM
Normally, I'm a big proponent of building through the draft. NFL. MLB. But the NBA is so much harder to accomplish that. Outside of the top 10 guys, a lot of these guys never make a serious impact. The picks they get in those trades are likely to be in the 20s, and may not even play in the league. And if they do, chances are they're just solid, league average players. That's it.

As far as their own picks are concerned, they have a much better shot of adding a difference-maker. But even that isn't a guarantee. You're relying on the lottery, and even if you DO hit in the lottery, you're praying there's a franchise-changing player sitting there for you, and not Andrew Bogut or Kwame Brown.

But, that is the game. Aside from maybe a great QB in the NFL, no other sport is impacted by one player like the NBA. And, the only way for most teams to get that one player is in the lottery. So, teams are stuck in a tough position. Orlando, Houston, and New Orleans all bottomed out to get a potential franchise guy. NO got Davis and time will tell whether he is that guy, but the Magic and Rockets are going that same route.

improbus
08-12-2012, 10:02 PM
One other thing to consider, I've read some rumors that the Magic's financial people were involved in this deal more than their GM. They recently fired Otis Smith, so the new guy may not have a firm hold in the front office.

Revering4Blue
10-28-2012, 11:06 AM
Unable to work out an extension with James Harden, the Oklahoma City Thunder traded the Sixth Man of the Year to the Houston Rockets on Saturday night, breaking up the young core of the Western Conference champions.

The Thunder acquired guards Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb, two first-round picks and a second-round pick in the surprising deal that was completed Saturday night. Oklahoma City also sent center Cole Aldrich and forwards Daequan Cook and Lazar Hayward to Houston.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8562868/oklahoma-city-thunder-trade-james-harden-houston-rockets

WVRed
10-28-2012, 08:44 PM
OKC made out like bandits in this deal. Granted, it's James Harden, but they got two quality wings and two first round picks that could be high given the Rockets haven't shown a winning consistency.

Revering4Blue
10-28-2012, 09:45 PM
OKC made out like bandits in this deal. Granted, it's James Harden, but they got two quality wings and two first round picks that could be high given the Rockets haven't shown a winning consistency.
From the same article.


Houston collected draft picks while it was making a flurry of deals, part of a package to offer Orlando for Howard. The Rockets traded point guard Kyle Lowry to Toronto for a lottery-protected first-round pick, one of Oklahoma City's acquisitions on Saturday night.

The other first-round pick was acquired by Houston when it traded Jordan Hill to the Los Angeles Lakers last March. The second-round pick came to the Rockets in a deal that sent guard Courtney Lee to Boston.

Unless, Aldrich, Cook and Hayward meet or exceed their expectations, I agree with your assessment. Harden is obviously a solid player, but is best suited as a second or third banana.

IMHO, Lamb is the key to the deal for OKC, some scouts have suggested that he could be the next Reggie Miller. Plus, Martin is in the last year of his contract, giving the Thunder future flexibility.

Scrap Irony
10-29-2012, 04:49 PM
Harden's young, too. That Houston team is very, very young and set up for either a big free agent signee or a top draft pick. But it'll have to get lucky on the draft pick, as they're not bad enough to grab a sure-thing, nor good enough to deal a player or two for the pick.

Nice, complimentary players at C, PF, SG, and PG. Lin and Harden will be an offensively-minded backcourt, capable of gong 17/5/6 apiece. I also think Terrence Jones will turn out to be a steal in a couple of years. He's only 20, and I could see him go 15/9/4 this year with much more ceiling as he matures. (The only questions are motor and outside shot, and, at least so far in pre-season and Las Vegas, his shot has fallen consistently. He's also added a step or two to the range he had at Kentucky.)

Royce White has intriguing skills, as do the youngster from Turkey (Montiejunas) and Asik at center. For this year, Aldrich and Asik are going to rebound and block shots, Parsons and Brockman are going to shoot from long distance, Jones and White are going to do a little bit of everything, and the guard quartet of Delfino, Douglass, Lin, and Harden are going to be the primary drive and score guys.

It's again a decent but not great team. Houston's spent countless hours and seemingly hundreds of players creating a team just about as good as the one they let go at the end of 2012.

The more things change...

improbus
10-29-2012, 09:36 PM
The Rockets have the best second unit in the league. It is just a shame that they are the Rockets first unit.

improbus
10-29-2012, 09:38 PM
This is a fun must read for Hoop junkies. It is stuff like this that makes me love the NBA more than any other league.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/HardwoodParoxysm_2012_Season_Preview.pdf

improbus
10-29-2012, 09:41 PM
I've been busting out the old school Hip Hop to get in the proper mindset for tomorrow night. Gang Starr, Rakim, Nas, Tribe, Westside Connection. So much good stuff.

improbus
10-30-2012, 08:57 PM
"Ball Don't Lie" Rasheed Wallace.

Truer words have never been spoken.

improbus
10-31-2012, 08:28 PM
One observation from watching too much basketball. Kylie Irving is a star. He posted someone up last night, faked right, and did a Shaq jump hook over his left shoulder. What 20 year old PG can do that? In fact, what 30 year old PG can do that?

Slyder
10-31-2012, 09:50 PM
OKC made out like bandits in this deal. Granted, it's James Harden, but they got two quality wings and two first round picks that could be high given the Rockets haven't shown a winning consistency.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8577246/james-harden-houston-rockets-agree-five-year-80-million-contract-sources

Cliff Notes version: Harden turns down 54 mil and gets 80 mil.

IslandRed
10-31-2012, 10:34 PM
On paper OKC could have done worse, but there's no way to spin this as making the team better this year. I could understand it if they were rebuilding or a fringe contender and needed the bodies, but this team was in the Finals last year. They don't need bodies, they need to beat the Lakers in the playoffs, and today they're less likely to do it than they were last week.

I guess the Thunder management did what they felt they had to to do, but dang, stepping back from a grab at the ring must be hard for their fans to swallow.

texasdave
10-31-2012, 11:41 PM
James Harden 37 points, 12 assists, 6 rebounds and 4 steals. Thanks, OKC.

Stray
11-01-2012, 02:13 PM
There's no guarantee with prospects, especially in the NBA. Harden might have disappeared in the Finals, but he's a proven player. I cannot believe OKC let him go. I don't know the ins and outs of luxury taxes, contracts and whatever else, but I know they're really overpaying Kendrick Perkins. If anyone was expendable it'd be him...but yeah I don't know how they would go about that. For the best team in the West to let a guy like Harden leave just blows my mind.

And Houston is a lot better with this deal.

Stray
11-01-2012, 02:15 PM
Oh and Mike Brown is terrible lol. Princeton offense with the players he has in LA? Just thinking of that should be enough to get fired. That offense is designed for teams with inferior talent to compete, not for a team with Steve Nash, Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant. They're a mess right now.

WMR
11-09-2012, 02:44 PM
LMAO MIKE BROWN JUST GOT FIRED Y'ALL

:lol:

Kobe said, "It's CUT!!" :laugh:

Chip R
11-09-2012, 03:15 PM
Mike Brown, step down.

Revering4Blue
11-09-2012, 05:03 PM
LMAO MIKE BROWN JUST GOT FIRED Y'ALL

:lol:

Kobe said, "It's CUT!!" :laugh:

Ron Jeremy, er, Stan Van Gundy is available.

Chip R
11-09-2012, 06:01 PM
Ron Jeremy, er, Stan Van Gundy is available.

Dwight Howard would enjoy that reunion.