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View Full Version : Who will have the better career -- Mesoraco or Grandal?



fearofpopvol1
07-01-2012, 05:07 PM
I know, it's early, but they're both essentially rookies, both born in 1988. Grandal went to Miami, Mesoraco signed out of high school. The Reds obviously bet on Mesoraco, but he has struggled in the bigs so far (albeit it is a small sample size).

If you're a betting person, who would you bet on?

Joseph
07-01-2012, 05:07 PM
Gotta go with the brass here and say Mes.

dougdirt
07-01-2012, 05:09 PM
Mesoraco. He is a catcher, without a doubt. Has more power.

kaldaniels
07-01-2012, 05:10 PM
Could go either way, but I would say Mes. I believe I have seen where Grandal doesn't project long term at C. If that is wrong correct me.

dougdirt
07-01-2012, 05:11 PM
Could go either way, but I would say Mes. I believe I have seen where Grandal doesn't project long term at C. If that is wrong correct me.

There is a chance, but it isn't a sure thing either.

Kc61
07-01-2012, 05:52 PM
Not voting, I have no idea.

Mes has a good arm, I like that, even if so far he's allowed his share of steals. He caught many losses early, that has turned around.

Mes also is a patient hitter. One of the few Reds righty hitters who doesn't lunge after bad pitches. Has power.

My own view is that Mes probably could have used another year at AAA, but I like what I see so far.

DGullett35
07-01-2012, 06:06 PM
I think both will have nice careers. I like how Mes is concentrating on his D and the pitchers right now which is what he should be doing. I feel that his bat will come around but it will probably be next year before we see him to start to rake. I also agree that a full year in AAA this year is probably what Mes needed. I look for 2013 to be a big year for him.

bellhead
07-01-2012, 06:09 PM
Mes.. without a doubt, there are thoughts he could be a future #4 middle of the order guy.

Tom Servo
07-01-2012, 06:37 PM
Mes.. without a doubt, there are thoughts he could be a future #4 middle of the order guy.
Would be fantastic to have a 3-4-5 for years to come of Votto-Mesoraco-Bruce.

BearcatShane
07-01-2012, 09:59 PM
I'm gonna have to go with Grandal. At least offensively. I think this guy is going to be a star.

RedsManRick
07-02-2012, 01:46 AM
I voted Mes, but was very ambivalent. I really don't see what others do in Mesoraco's defense. It seems like he's constantly dropping pitches, isn't very still and just generally isn't a reliable target.

WildcatFan
07-02-2012, 09:48 AM
I voted Grandal, but with the caveat that his better career won't be as a catcher. I see him as a very solid slugging third baseman.

mdccclxix
07-02-2012, 10:57 AM
The question still has no answer. After both their MLB debuts Grandal and Mez are not what they appear to be this early on. I've always felt Grandal had a better pedigree and higher floor than Mez, but we'll see how things play out. Mez just doesn't barrel the ball often enough right now and part of that is the PT he's getting. Who knows, this 40/60 split may last until next year as well...until when in 2014 26 year old Mez hits 45 bombs and wins an MVP...hell yeah!

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-02-2012, 11:54 AM
No clue. But Mes needs to play more.

MikeS21
07-02-2012, 12:54 PM
I won't even try to guess which one will have the better career. As others have said:

1. Mes needs more playing time NOW. I do not buy the argument that "He needs to earn more at bats." If he played 4 out of 5 games, his bat would secure him into the 4 hole f the batting order.

2. Grandal may be moved to another position. I felt that would have happened had he remained in the Reds' organization. He could have developed into a 3B or a LF.

RedlegJake
07-02-2012, 02:26 PM
Grandal - he will stick at catcher, will be adequate on D but better all around hitter though with a bit less power than Mes. Mes will be the better defender but less of a hitter - more power but other than that Grandal will outhit him in about every other area - BA, SP, OPS. Mes is patient enough he will likely be close in OBP. A player's offense tends to color his perception as a player overall and Grandal will get the nod because of that, although Mes will be the better catcher.

RedlegJake
07-02-2012, 02:33 PM
I won't even try to guess which one will have the better career. As others have said:

1. Mes needs more playing time NOW. I do not buy the argument that "He needs to earn more at bats." If he played 4 out of 5 games, his bat would secure him into the 4 hole f the batting order.

I could not disagree more. There is a heckuva lot more involved than just his bat when talking about a catcher. Hanigan is a much better catcher - better at handling the pitching staff, calling a game, and better defensively. Even if I could buy the hitting argument that Mes would blossom given 4 of 5 games as the starter, I think the Reds would give up a lot defensively and in handling the staff-an area that is hard to quantify statistically and therefore, you watch - it will be panned by critics as unimportant or overrated. I think it is critically important to good pitching and I think Hanigan is far and away better at this part of the game right now. It's this part of the game that I think Mes refers to when he says he learns more sitting on the bench in the majors than he learns catching every day in AAA.

fearofpopvol1
07-05-2012, 04:39 PM
It's super early, obviously, but Grandal's career WAR is higher than Mesoraco's. Mez has had around 180 career PA's while Grandal has 20.

Roy Tucker
07-05-2012, 05:25 PM
Hard for me to say because I don't see Grandal play.

But I like what Mes has done this year. He has grown as an MLB player. He used to be stationary behind the plate but is getting better at positioning himself for pitches. His arm is becoming accurate and strong. His demeanor with his pitchers is getting more active. He has also started to have good ABs and work pitchers. He's showing good pop too. I don't know if he'll get to be a high BA guy, but he'll be a strong OBP/SLG guy.

In a way, he reminds me of Votto in that his improvement is linear and plainly visible.

Roy Tucker
07-05-2012, 05:26 PM
The 6-4-3 double post

westofyou
07-05-2012, 05:44 PM
I could not disagree more. There is a heckuva lot more involved than just his bat when talking about a catcher. Hanigan is a much better catcher - better at handling the pitching staff, calling a game, and better defensively. Even if I could buy the hitting argument that Mes would blossom given 4 of 5 games as the starter, I think the Reds would give up a lot defensively and in handling the staff-an area that is hard to quantify statistically and therefore, you watch - it will be panned by critics as unimportant or overrated. I think it is critically important to good pitching and I think Hanigan is far and away better at this part of the game right now. It's this part of the game that I think Mes refers to when he says he learns more sitting on the bench in the majors than he learns catching every day in AAA.

The most difficult position in the game, easily overlooked on a daily basis by fans all around the game, it's taxing, it's cerebral... it's the funnest dang thing I ever did on a baseball field too

cincrazy
07-05-2012, 06:16 PM
Mes may end up being the better catcher. But I think Grandal, even if he moves to another position, has a better career. The kid has a sweet swing.

Vottomatic
07-05-2012, 06:32 PM
If Grandal has a good series against us and Mez struggles, this topic could get interesting.

Tom Servo
07-05-2012, 06:42 PM
If Grandal has a good series against us and Mez struggles, this topic could get interesting.
I don't see how 4 games would give us any conclusive evidence to who will have the better career.

RedlegJake
07-05-2012, 06:48 PM
I don't see how 4 games would give us any conclusive evidence to who will have the better career.

Considering how we tend to judge an entire season on the game currently being played every night in the game thread I tend to think 4 games is a large sample size!

Redlegs
07-14-2012, 11:20 PM
I want my catcher to be a catcher first, hitter second. Piazza was a hitter but a joke behind the plate. Don't know much about Grandal. I know Mesoraco is supposed to be a heck of a catcher with a cannon of an arm. I'll take that.

Always Red
07-14-2012, 11:39 PM
I want my catcher to be a catcher first, hitter second. Piazza was a hitter but a joke behind the plate. Don't know much about Grandal. I know Mesoraco is supposed to be a heck of a catcher with a cannon of an arm. I'll take that.

Don't know about Mez or Grandal yet, but I do know that Mike Piazza'a comps on his BR.com page are:

Johnny Bench (826) *
Yogi Berra (822) *
Gary Carter (779) *
Carlton Fisk (762) *
Gabby Hartnett (757) *
Bill Dickey (754) *
Jorge Posada (745)
Duke Snider (739) *
Juan Gonzalez (738)
Lance Parrish (738)


Mike Piazza would have been the 3rd best catcher in Reds history, had he ever been a Red, behind Bench and Lombardi. I would take 10 years of that every single day, over both Mez and Grandal.

Piazza is also 20th on the list of most games caught, ever. JB is 15th, and Lombardi is 27th. I would submit that Piazza was not a joke behind the plate- if so, he would have never caught that many games. I'd say he was not renowned for his defense, but played the position well enough to not be a full time DH in the AL.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/Gm_c_career.shtml

Vottomatic
07-15-2012, 01:00 AM
I don't see how 4 games would give us any conclusive evidence to who will have the better career.

....and all I said was if he has a good series this topic could get interesting. :confused:

Mario-Rijo
07-15-2012, 10:51 AM
I could not disagree more. There is a heckuva lot more involved than just his bat when talking about a catcher. Hanigan is a much better catcher - better at handling the pitching staff, calling a game, and better defensively. Even if I could buy the hitting argument that Mes would blossom given 4 of 5 games as the starter, I think the Reds would give up a lot defensively and in handling the staff-an area that is hard to quantify statistically and therefore, you watch - it will be panned by critics as unimportant or overrated. I think it is critically important to good pitching and I think Hanigan is far and away better at this part of the game right now. It's this part of the game that I think Mes refers to when he says he learns more sitting on the bench in the majors than he learns catching every day in AAA.

Which is why I would much rather have Mes than Grandal, I doubt it's ever close defensively. Personally I think almost every part of Grandals game is a bit overrated whereas for several years there Mes was underrated. That said Mes is now being a bit overrated, I doubt he is ever a legit #4 hitter but I still think he can hang with whatever Yasmani puts up in their primes.

Mes = Miguel Montero's defense, Ramon Hernandez's bat (with a bit more pop and perhaps a slight drop in BA) .255/.330/.475
Grandal = Ryan Doumit's defense, Montero's bat (solid average & discipline but less pop) .275/.340/.440

Redlegs
07-15-2012, 12:32 PM
Don't know about Mez or Grandal yet, but I do know that Mike Piazza'a comps on his BR.com page are:

Johnny Bench (826) *
Yogi Berra (822) *
Gary Carter (779) *
Carlton Fisk (762) *
Gabby Hartnett (757) *
Bill Dickey (754) *
Jorge Posada (745)
Duke Snider (739) *
Juan Gonzalez (738)
Lance Parrish (738)


Mike Piazza would have been the 3rd best catcher in Reds history, had he ever been a Red, behind Bench and Lombardi. I would take 10 years of that every single day, over both Mez and Grandal.

Piazza is also 20th on the list of most games caught, ever. JB is 15th, and Lombardi is 27th. I would submit that Piazza was not a joke behind the plate- if so, he would have never caught that many games. I'd say he was not renowned for his defense, but played the position well enough to not be a full time DH in the AL.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/Gm_c_career.shtml

Johnny Bench threw out anywhere from 40 to 50% of would be base stealers. Piazza was as low as 14% or so in his career. A great hitter, no doubt. Easily below average defensively. Part of a winning formula is strength up the middle.

Always Red
07-15-2012, 07:54 PM
Johnny Bench threw out anywhere from 40 to 50% of would be base stealers. Piazza was as low as 14% or so in his career. A great hitter, no doubt. Easily below average defensively. Part of a winning formula is strength up the middle.

Absolutely.

Below average, but could still play the position, to the point where, unlike Dunn and Encarnacion, he did not have to go to the AL and be a DH until near the end of his career.

And if either one of those guys, especially Mez, has a career like Piazza's, no one here will be complaining that he's not throwing enough guys out on the basepaths. It's all relative.

Revering4Blue
07-15-2012, 08:00 PM
Absolutely.

Below average, but could still play the position, to the point where, unlike Dunn and Encarnacion, he did not have to go to the AL and be a DH until near the end of his career.

And if either one of those guys, especially Mez, has a career like Piazza's, no one here will be complaining that he's not throwing enough guys out on the basepaths. It's all relative.

Below average in regards to throwing base runners out. But, IIRC, in regards to other aspects of defense--blocking the plate and preventing passed balls/wild pitches--Piazza fared very well.

RedlegJake
07-15-2012, 11:12 PM
Yeah I'm one of those old guys who watched Piazza his whole career. He wasn't even close to Berra, Bench or Rodriguez - those comps have to be based on hitting only. Mike was a bad catcher when he came up in the NL. I mean bad. He simply hit too well to keep down and LaSorda stayed with him when a lot of teams would have moved him. Tom's faith was repayed because Piazza became a decent catcher in every aspect of the game except throwing and he was fairly accurate. By his 3rd or 4th year he was adequate - easily better than our own Eddie Taubensee. SO yeah, he stayed at catcher because he was adequate and he played a lot of games there but that's all he ever was - adequate. What he was good at, I think, were things like taking command of a pitching staff, and working with his pitchers. Calling the game etc. and that is why he stayed a catcher.

fearofpopvol1
08-18-2012, 10:31 PM
it's still obviously very early, but a month later, Grandal is having the better season. and he's done it with even less playing time than Mesoraco.

both are small sample sizes, i acknowledge.

Tom Servo
08-18-2012, 10:40 PM
I'm still not anymore sold on Grandal, but I am concerned about Mes. He's looked fairly hapless at the plate of late. Hopefully it's just rookie struggles.

kaldaniels
08-18-2012, 10:43 PM
Mes, despite some well hit balls tonight, just doesn't pass the eyeball test at the plate.

Not that that is worth anything.

Vottomatic
08-18-2012, 10:44 PM
I'm not happy with Mez's bat. But he seems better in his game calling. I see improvement behind the plate. Now he needs to get there standing at the plate.

dougdirt
08-18-2012, 11:02 PM
When Mesoraco starts playing 5 times a week, he is going to be better than Grandal is. Until then, Grandal will probably be better because is starting nearly every game.

edabbs44
08-18-2012, 11:20 PM
When Mesoraco starts playing 5 times a week, he is going to be better than Grandal is. Until then, Grandal will probably be better because is starting nearly every game.

Chicken or the egg. Until he starts hitting, especially in a playoff chase, he won't be seeing the field 5 times per week.

Matt700wlw
08-18-2012, 11:39 PM
I don't think the Reds went into this season expecting a lot offensively from Mes...

Next year will tell us more.

Vottomatic
08-18-2012, 11:40 PM
Chicken or the egg. Until he starts hitting, especially in a playoff chase, he won't be seeing the field 5 times per week.

Good point.

I think this thread should be dug back up in 2 or 3 years. Too small a sample size right now for both players.

Wonderful Monds
08-19-2012, 02:03 AM
I don't have any particularly rational reasons for it, but I'm extremely worried about Mes. Watching him hit, his struggles look like more than just rookie growing pains.

hebroncougar
08-19-2012, 07:37 AM
Not worried one bit. He will be just fine. I really do wish he would have had more consistent playing time, but I can understand how good Hanigan is as well. Good problem to have.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

Vottomatic
08-19-2012, 09:15 AM
Welsh was really praising Hanigan during one of the broadcasts on Saturday. Paraphrasing, saying how underrated he is.

I've always agreed with that.

Scrap Irony
08-19-2012, 10:15 AM
I don't have any particularly rational reasons for it, but I'm extremely worried about Mes. Watching him hit, his struggles look like more than just rookie growing pains.

He continues to drop his back shoulder and roll over breaking balls.

At this point, he's become an extreme mistake hitter with a slow bat. Maybe he improves, but, as is, he's a .230/.280/.400 career backup.

Grandal, meanwhile, despite not being good yet defensively, is at .290/.340/.550.

Easy choice so far.

Plus Plus
08-19-2012, 10:30 AM
When Mesoraco starts playing 5 times a week, he is going to be better than Grandal is. Until then, Grandal will probably be better because is starting nearly every game.

I agree here.

Mesoraco has a BABIP of .228 this season and .217 for his career, despite line drive percentages of 16.5% and 16.2%, respectively. I think the quick and dirty math for xBABIP is LD%+100, so his xBABIP would be around .265 and .262, which would add quite a bit to his current slash line of .209/.288/.348, taking it up to maybe .250/.325/.400 (if almost all of the new hits were singles, which I would doubt given Mesoraco's pedigree).

This, plus the fact that this season Mesoraco has improved his plate discipline from last season and is now almost in line with his 2011 minor league year- BB% of 9.6, K% of 17.5 against his 2011 minors totals of 10.4% and 16.6% respectively, I think that the "bad luck" argument is a very valid one here.

Bad luck, when coupled with a rationalization for not playing more (he catches "his guys," catchers don't pinch hit, etc), is not a recipe for getting a chance to prove that bad luck is a reason for lackluster numbers at the plate.

RANDY IN INDY
08-19-2012, 10:38 AM
Hit a ball very hard to right last night. Right at the right fielder. Was a nice swing.

Plus Plus
08-19-2012, 10:40 AM
Hit a ball very hard to right last night. Right at the right fielder. Was a nice swing.

His swing in the 8th looked great as well, but the CF was played over towards the LCF gap. Tough luck twice last night.

jojo
08-19-2012, 11:13 AM
Mes vs Grandal is an interesting conversation especially given the trade was a clear indication of how the Reds were thinking.

I guess, I'd side with the camp that thinks Mes will ultimately be the better catcher but Grandal is having an incredible year when looking at his performances in AAA and the majors this year.

There is legitimate reason for people to be excited about Grandal. The Reds may have been a victim of their own success concerning those two because they could only keep one.

mth123
08-19-2012, 12:10 PM
Mes vs Grandal is an interesting conversation especially given the trade was a clear indication of how the Reds were thinking.

I guess, I'd side with the camp that thinks Mes will ultimately be the better catcher but Grandal is having an incredible year when looking at his performances in AAA and the majors this year.

There is legitimate reason for people to be excited about Grandal. The Reds may have been a victim of their own success concerning those two because they could only keep one.

How is it clear who the Reds prefer? Maybe the Pads insisted on Grandal in order to deal Latos.

hebroncougar
08-19-2012, 12:48 PM
How is it clear who the Reds prefer? Maybe the Pads insisted on Grandal in order to deal Latos.

Because they dealt Grandal. It's pretty clear who the Reds preferred. Rumor was the Rays want Mes, and the Reds wouldn't deal him.

mth123
08-19-2012, 12:52 PM
Because they dealt Grandal. It's pretty clear who the Reds preferred. Rumor was the Rays want Mes, and the Reds wouldn't deal him.

Its just as possible that the Reds dealt Grandal because he is who the pads preferred. Maybe the Reds bit the bullet because they really wanted Latos. Its possible the Reds preferred Mes (me too), but this is all supposition yet gets stated as fact.

Cooper
08-19-2012, 01:08 PM
Grandel's AAA performance looks great at first glance -but that .330 average in the PCL is about .270 in the IL.

I have nothing to base it on but observation (that sucks, i know), Grandel does not look like a catcher - he's taller the Mes and often those taller guys get hurt. I think he ends up playing 1st base.

Mes- ain't got no luck and aint got no playing time to get started.
There age 23 stats are essentially the same when you factor in everything.
The Reds picked the right guy.

cincinnati chili
08-19-2012, 02:25 PM
The Reds obviously bet on Mesoraco


Is anyone from the Reds on record as saying that this is the case?

How do we know that the Padres didn't insist on Grandal?

I voted for Grandal, but it's way too early to give up on Mesoroco.

jojo
08-19-2012, 03:43 PM
How is it clear who the Reds prefer? Maybe the Pads insisted on Grandal in order to deal Latos.

It seems like a much less likely possibility, but I guess anything is possible.

Vottomatic
08-19-2012, 04:08 PM
Welsh was really praising Hanigan during one of the broadcasts on Saturday. Paraphrasing, saying how underrated he is.

I've always agreed with that.

Bingo! :thumbup: :beerme:

defender
08-19-2012, 05:03 PM
Baker should get credit here. Mes gets to learn to be a major league catcher without having to worry about losing/earning playing time each AB. People hold it against Baker for not choosing the best possible second hitter, but want him to play the inferior catcher even more.

fearofpopvol1
08-19-2012, 07:33 PM
Is anyone from the Reds on record as saying that this is the case?

How do we know that the Padres didn't insist on Grandal?

I voted for Grandal, but it's way too early to give up on Mesoroco.

Well, the Reds didn't trade Mez, right? So they're betting on him to some extent. They could have traded Mez to someone if they had wanted to fill the SP need.

mth123
08-19-2012, 08:37 PM
Well, the Reds didn't trade Mez, right? So they're betting on him to some extent. They could have traded Mez to someone if they had wanted to fill the SP need.

Or, maybe they didn't get an offer they liked. They got Latos for Grandal. That's motivation or dealing him even if they liked him better.

fearofpopvol1
08-19-2012, 10:03 PM
Or, maybe they didn't get an offer they liked. They got Latos for Grandal. That's motivation or dealing him even if they liked him better.

But they're still betting on Mez. There were reports the Rays wanted Mez and I'm sure other teams would have too after his year in AAA last year. If they had traded Mez instead of Grandal, they would have bet on Grandal.

Really, we're debating semantics here.

Scrap Irony
08-20-2012, 12:30 AM
There [sic] age 23 stats are essentially the same when you factor in everything.

Except they're really not the same. By a long shot.

Grandal's WAR is 0.9 in around 100 ABs with a 146 wRC+.

Mesoraco's WAR is 0.1 in around 180 ABs with a 64 wRC+.

You're talking almost a win difference in almost half the ABs offensively. Grandal's offensive season is that (so far) of a difference-maker at a premium defensive position. Mesoraco is replacement level. No amount of "bad luck" Mesoraco's had touches that particular difference.

Now, maybe Grandal's playing over his head. Maybe Mesoraco has another massive improvement left in him. Maybe it is a lack of playing time that's hindering Mesoraco's development. Maybe Grandal gets injured because he's taller than the average catcher.

But those maybe's don't mask the fact that Grandal's been the better player at the major league level this season by a wide margin.

Cooper
08-20-2012, 02:38 AM
Scrap Irony: except they really are about the same -- read it again -age 23 seasons.

Mes has an OPS of .855 in the IL for 499 PA's and in the .580's from for 56 PA's in the mlb.
Grandel's has an OPS of .935 in the PCL for 243 PA's and a .895 for 91 PA's in the mlb.

Mes triple A OPS translates to .855 OPS over 499 PA's.
Grandels triple A OPS translates to .830 OPS over 243 PA's.

From an age 23 minor league perspective -Mes stats translate well and he has a slight advantage. Grandel goes on the have a 91 PA's with .945 OPS and that is a grea start to a MLB.

Lastly-re this years WARP2 numbers -the FRAA numbers appear to point toward Grandel have trouble with defense (-5) to Mes FRAA at (+9) making this years WARP2 at .6 (YG) to .1 (DM).

The difference in the 2 is not near what folks are saying is just not there.

cumberlandreds
08-20-2012, 08:09 AM
I don't think the Reds went into this season expecting a lot offensively from Mes...

Next year will tell us more.

I believe you are right. I think next year he gets more playing time and you will see an improved bat.

mdccclxix
08-20-2012, 08:51 AM
I think this is a big adjustment year for Mez. No doubt he'd be getting better experience with more at bats, and his numbers would definitely improve. Frankly, I'd be surprised if Hanigan lost much of his current role next year. They guy calls a great game and controls the running game just as well. It could very well come down to "don't mess with success". That said, I think 2014 is a definite deadline for Mez's full on starting role. He'll be ready by then, for sure.

Last year I ranked Grandal ahead of Mez because I liked his pedigree from Miami and he seemed to be showing a very mature approach right off the bat in the minor leagues. I thought that his floor was higher, basically. A lot of what Mez showed last year has carried over this year. He's a little hacktastic resulting in the ball not getting squared properly. Too max effort and not fluid enough at times. But goodness, he's got a lot of 450+ ft bombs in his future. I think he can follow the Miguel Montero track and be a great contributor by 25. Grandal reminds me a bit more like Russel Martin. I think Mez is a better fit for this team and would have really liked only to keep Grandal if he could be switched to 3rd base.

Plus Plus
08-20-2012, 09:26 AM
Except they're really not the same. By a long shot.

Grandal's WAR is 0.9 in around 100 ABs with a 146 wRC+.

Mesoraco's WAR is 0.1 in around 180 ABs with a 64 wRC+.

You're talking almost a win difference in almost half the ABs offensively. Grandal's offensive season is that (so far) of a difference-maker at a premium defensive position. Mesoraco is replacement level. No amount of "bad luck" Mesoraco's had touches that particular difference.

Now, maybe Grandal's playing over his head. Maybe Mesoraco has another massive improvement left in him. Maybe it is a lack of playing time that's hindering Mesoraco's development. Maybe Grandal gets injured because he's taller than the average catcher.

But those maybe's don't mask the fact that Grandal's been the better player at the major league level this season by a wide margin.

Again, there is a huge BABIP difference (about 60 points) between the two players, despite a higher LD% from Mesoraco.

Mesoraco's MLB career so far has been defined by his inability to buy a hit despite hitting a reasonable amount of line drives, and Grandal's is defined by his hitting 5 home runs in his first 20 PAs or whatever.

Let's give them more than like 400 combined PAs before making a real judgement.

RED VAN HOT
08-20-2012, 08:04 PM
Mez has had a relatively low K rate for a young player, about 17.5%. If he were being fooled and swinging and missing a high number of pitches, it would be more concerning. It seems to me that his problem is that pitchers are using his aggressiveness to get him out. He is making weak contact on a high number of pitcher's pitches. As he learns to be more patient and take marginal pitches, he'll do fine.

fearofpopvol1
09-25-2012, 07:42 PM
I posted this in the Updates thread, but figured I'd cross post it here as well.

Johnny Bench likes Grandal better than Mesoraco (and Hanigan).


On the Reds’ catching tandem of Ryan Hanigan and Devin Mesoraco: “(Mesoraco) is still developing. I think you’re going to see a lot of good things from Devin. Hanigan has always been a great receiver. He’s got his average up around .290. I don’t think we’ve seen the best of him. I think he’s an even more productive hitter than he’s shown. He’s only got 23 RBIs; I thought that was a misprint. He has a good eye. I’ve talked to him about being more of a hands hitter than a body hitter and to get his hands to stay up. And (catcher Dioner) Navarro comes up and does a good job. We gave up (Yasmani) Grandal (in a trade to San Diego), and I thought that he was the best of all of them. Somebody knew that, too. I guess that’s why they wanted him in San Diego.”

http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...Series-chances

corkedbat
09-25-2012, 08:16 PM
I posted this in the Updates thread, but figured I'd cross post it here as well.

Johnny Bench likes Grandal better than Mesoraco (and Hanigan).



http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...Series-chances

Thing is, I like Latos better than all three (and we still have two of them). If Hanigan and Mes are still here next year (which I fully expect) I would like to see them do what I would have this year - let Mes start the season ofr a month or two in L'Ville and let him get his batting legs under him. I'd either keep Navarro or acquire someone similar.

Revering4Blue
09-25-2012, 08:17 PM
I'm firmly in the Grandal will have the better career, but not necessarily as a catcher camp.