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View Full Version : Just how good has our pitching been???



bellhead
07-04-2012, 12:27 PM
# 5 overall team ERA in majors at 3.46...

Starting pitching...

Tied for league lead in Complete games with 6...
Starting pitching ERA 3.79, quality start % 61.. 521 inngs pitched.


Relief

Tied for league lead in ERA 2.7, only 213 innings pitch, low is San Fran at 200. #2 in BAA at .212...

Shocking considering we played almost half of the games at Great American.

I couldn't find an ERA plus showing the impact of the Great American.

dougdirt
07-04-2012, 12:32 PM
Our team ERA+ is 2nd best in baseball at 122. The Nationals are at 123. The Dodgers are at 118.

Our bullpen is allowing 22% of inherited runners to score. That is tied with the Yankees for 2nd best in baseball.

Captain Hook
07-04-2012, 01:28 PM
Seems odd that you can make a good argument that the Reds have the best all around pitching staff in baseball this year when they have had only five different guys start for them and four of those five sport an ERA over 4.

dougdirt
07-04-2012, 04:08 PM
Seems odd that you can make a good argument that the Reds have the best all around pitching staff in baseball this year when they have had only five different guys start for them and four of those five sport an ERA over 4.
Bullpen has been lights out. Cueto has been lights out. GABP is showing its ugly head (our 4 guys with ERA's just over 4 to 4.42 are all league average when it comes to ERA+).

edabbs44
07-04-2012, 04:16 PM
Good enough that the offensive "woes" don't worry me as much as they typically would.

Caveat Emperor
07-04-2012, 05:31 PM
Consider this too -- Mat Latos has only recently started to turn the corner with his performances.

Kc61
07-04-2012, 05:52 PM
Good enough that the offensive "woes" don't worry me as much as they typically would.

As I just expressed in my Status through 80 games thread, I feel the exact opposite.

The Reds defense is superb and the pitching is the best I can remember.

The offensive "woes" are real woes and should be fixed.

it would be shame if this team didn't win the Central division because of offensive issues that have been apparent since April, if not earlier.

edabbs44
07-04-2012, 06:04 PM
As I just expressed in my Status through 80 games thread, I feel the exact opposite.

The Reds defense is superb and the pitching is the best I can remember.

The offensive "woes" are real woes and should be fixed.

it would be shame if this team didn't win the Central division because of offensive issues that have been apparent since April, if not earlier.

5th in the NL in OPS. 4th in ERA. The teams ahead of them are all trailing Cincy in the playoff chase.

Kc61
07-04-2012, 06:15 PM
5th in the NL in OPS. 4th in ERA. The teams ahead of them are all trailing Cincy in the playoff chase.

We all know that OPS is a shorthand stat that needs to be broken down before any conclusions are drawn.

Reds are 10th in the NL in OBP. Reds are fourteenth of sixteen NL teams in OBP against righty pitching at .310.

Reds are 9th in NL in BA and 13th in BA against righty pitching.

Reds are 8th in runs in NL.

All this playing in a home run stadium with the great Votto in the lineup.

kaldaniels
07-04-2012, 06:18 PM
We all know that OPS is a shorthand stat that needs to be broken down before any conclusions are drawn.

Reds are 10th in the NL in OBP. Reds are fourteenth of sixteen NL teams in OBP against righty pitching at .310.

Reds are 9th in NL in BA and 13th in BA against righty pitching.

Reds are 8th in runs in NL.

All this playing in a home run stadium with the great Votto in the lineup.

Granted you have to dig deep within OPS sometimes, but you have gone and cherry picked the worst splits. If you aren't even going to touch slugging %, how can the above post not be considered biased.

Kc61
07-04-2012, 06:28 PM
Granted you have to dig deep within OPS sometimes, but you have gone and cherry picked the worst splits. If you aren't even going to touch slugging %, how can the above post not be considered biased.

If you want to see the good and bad, I spent an hour today writing a post about the Reds stats after 80 games. I refer you to it.

Here, I am arguing the fact that the Reds offense is broken and it is worse than reflected in team OPS ranking. So I am pointing out where I think it is broken.

Yes, there are good things about the offense too. And try to eliminate the word biased from the discussion, because it is unnecessary and offensive.

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2012, 07:02 PM
Rotation has set a record for most starts by the original five sine the gay 90's. 1890's. 1898 to be exact. Why .....i was rather bully on that team with Sad Sack Seymour leading our batting brigade. Anyways..... I hope when the AS Break ends that Arroyo is pulling the rear.....and they start skipping however the weakest link is, and give Latos, Cueto and Bailey at least a extra start during the rest of the season.

The way Dusty likes to cut off his offense at the knees with his lineups......so he can apparently keep scoring down and use his double switches more often and move relievers in and out as much as possible..... this team needs all it can from it's top 3 starters.

edabbs44
07-04-2012, 07:45 PM
We all know that OPS is a shorthand stat that needs to be broken down before any conclusions are drawn.

Reds are 10th in the NL in OBP. Reds are fourteenth of sixteen NL teams in OBP against righty pitching at .310.

Reds are 9th in NL in BA and 13th in BA against righty pitching.

Reds are 8th in runs in NL.

All this playing in a home run stadium with the great Votto in the lineup.

Vs RHp, Washington is 9th in OPS, Dodgers are 12th, SF is 13th and Pitt is 15th.

Kc61
07-04-2012, 08:23 PM
Vs RHp, Washington is 9th in OPS, Dodgers are 12th, SF is 13th and Pitt is 15th.

Nats have the best pitching in the NL, they may be able to get away with a hitting deficiency.

Giants and Dodgers play in NL West, big stadiums, accordingly their offensive numbers may suffer but presumably they get an equal benefit on the pitching side.

As for the Pirates, clearly their offensive numbers are terrible against righties and, frankly, against lefties. They are getting away with it so far and have been hot lately, but I certainly think they are an exception to the rule. They have won a lot of close games and the breaks seem to have gone their way.

As for the Reds, playing at GABP, I can't imagine they can improve their pitching much, it's so much better than it has been for years. Same for their defense. So to win, I think they need to improve offense.

They have hitters like Votto and Bruce and need to get more guys on base for them, mostly against RHP. That's the only way I know to improve the team, other than wishing and hoping.

edabbs44
07-04-2012, 08:27 PM
Nats have the best pitching in the NL, they may be able to get away with a hitting deficiency.

Giants and Dodgers play in NL West, big stadiums, accordingly their offensive numbers may suffer but presumably they get an equal benefit on the pitching side.

As for the Pirates, clearly their offensive numbers are terrible against righties and, frankly, against lefties. They are getting away with it so far and have been hot lately, but I certainly think they are an exception to the rule. They have won a lot of close games and the breaks seem to have gone their way.

As for the Reds, playing at GABP, I can't imagine they can improve their pitching much, it's so
much better than it has been for years. Same for their defense. So to win, I think they need to improve offense.

They have hitters like Votto and Bruce and need to get more guys on base for them, mostly against RHP. That's the only way I know to improve the team, other than wishing and hoping.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see them upgrade the offense. It's just that I don't think they are in as dire need as some others do, as offense is down everywhere.

Kc61
07-04-2012, 08:33 PM
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see them upgrade the offense. It's just that I don't think they are in dire need, as offense is down everywhere.

IMO, when you sign a Joey Votto for big bucks, you need to set the table for him.

Reds have table setters who are so poorly equipped to set the table for him that it cries out for improvement. Especially against righties, but really overall.

It's such an obvious thing. It transcends lefty/righty. I can even live with Phillips at cleanup for the rest of the year.

But Cozart/Stubbs/Heisey setting the table is just unacceptable and there has to be a better way. Some want to mix up the batting order. IMO an acquisition is better, but it's such an obvious need, some change is needed.

All else aside, this particular problem is too glaring for them to continue to ignore it. My guess is a change is coming. I'm guessing the All Star Break.

Meanwhile, back to the thread title, I'm delighted with the pitching and defense and expect no change there unless some great deal falls in the Reds' lap.

edabbs44
07-04-2012, 09:26 PM
Here's another interesting stat. He worst 5 teams in the NL for leadoff OBP are SF, Washington, LA,Pitt and Cincy as the worst

bellhead
07-04-2012, 11:19 PM
Leake with another good game, 7IP, 2 ER/6 hits/no BB...

Looks like a lose tonight though.

DGullett35
07-04-2012, 11:22 PM
Simply put the pitching has been amazing and above and beyond anyones expectations. I would look into maybe moving Bray and bringing Hoover back. Bray has not helped at all. Maybe its because he had so much time off but he does not look like the same guy.

CrackerJack
07-04-2012, 11:44 PM
Simply put the pitching has been amazing and above and beyond anyones expectations. I would look into maybe moving Bray and bringing Hoover back. Bray has not helped at all. Maybe its because he had so much time off but he does not look like the same guy.

Agree, he's pretty useless and like a couple of others, it's time to move on.

oregonred
07-05-2012, 12:50 AM
Agree, he's pretty useless and like a couple of others, it's time to move on.

Guy put up a sub 3 ERA in 2011 with 79 appearances and an ERA of +133.

He hasn't had much work since coming off the DL and was misused in his first game back a couple weeks ago in a high leverage situation.

We'd have DFA'd Ludwick back in April if RZ made the decision.

The pitching is not at all the problem in 2012 (man that feels odd to type as a Reds fan).

The Reds will have an interesting decision with Bray in the offseason as an arb-2 player.