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View Full Version : Lets talk about future next two years...



bellhead
07-05-2012, 11:32 PM
Here are our holes right now... This is how I think things shake out

3rd base Henry Rodriguez, the Reds have bumped him today to AAA, he hit at every level, plays above average D converted 2nd baseman. He's a switch hitter and has hit at every level. He will get a chance for this position in spring training.

LF Todd Frazier, guys gonna play next year, I think he's a 15 to mid 20's guy with a 270 average and mans the LF spot for the next 5 years.

CF Heisy and Stubbs for at least another year... Billy Hamilton will not be up until 2014 at the earliest. A lot depends on his AA play which will begin very soon.

Zach Greinke...

With the article this week in the business paper their might be legs to this. Would Greinke take a 7 or 8 year deal for 120 to 140 million and play for the good guys. This would eat up the payroll needed to improve the position side of the house though, would you all be willing to have next year. With the rumors of him wanting to stay in a mid market community maybe that puts the big market suiters out of play.
Would he be willing to come over and form a part of the 5 horsemen.

If this were to happen Bronson and Homer are gone next year, with Chapman filling Homer's spot. Both have good trade value and would bring some good prospects.

I would be willing to live with a subpar/young lineup with running those 5 guys out there for the next 4 years...

Leake, Chapman, Cueto, Latos, and Greinke:):):):):):)

corkedbat
07-05-2012, 11:35 PM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96682

dougdirt
07-05-2012, 11:36 PM
I will be perfectly honest, I don't know if HRod will get a real shot at 3B. He isn't the ideal fit there and if there is something that the Reds scream, it is trying to fit people into roles they 'should' fit into, not the ones that they actually fit into.

RedlegJake
07-06-2012, 01:19 AM
I will be perfectly honest, I don't know if HRod will get a real shot at 3B. He isn't the ideal fit there and if there is something that the Reds scream, it is trying to fit people into roles they 'should' fit into, not the ones that they actually fit into.

I really see HRod as a great option to become the supersub off the bench. Either that or a trade chip but I don't see him replacing Frazier at third.

Vottomatic
07-06-2012, 01:55 AM
The pitching is fine. The bullpen seems underworked and not sharp.

The offense is the problem big time. Dusty makes crappy lineups. Walt has made a crappy roster.

As Jack Nicholson once said in a movie, "maybe this is as good as it gets."

_Sir_Charles_
07-06-2012, 12:36 PM
I really see HRod as a great option to become the supersub off the bench. Either that or a trade chip but I don't see him replacing Frazier at third.

Oh, let's PLEASE not do this. Frazier got this BS thrown at him for several years. Give the guy a position and let him learn it and succeed with it. If after a very extended run at it, it looks as if it's not suited for him, then move him to a new position. But the positional merry-go-round did Frazier no favors. If they would've just left him alone at third he would be a much more polished defender there right now. The goal should never be bench player or supersub. Those should be last options IMO.

Not really directed at you Jake...just the handling of Frazier sets me on edge and I really don't want to see it repeated.

RedlegJake
07-06-2012, 12:58 PM
Oh, let's PLEASE not do this. Frazier got this BS thrown at him for several years. Give the guy a position and let him learn it and succeed with it. If after a very extended run at it, it looks as if it's not suited for him, then move him to a new position. But the positional merry-go-round did Frazier no favors. If they would've just left him alone at third he would be a much more polished defender there right now. The goal should never be bench player or supersub. Those should be last options IMO.

Not really directed at you Jake...just the handling of Frazier sets me on edge and I really don't want to see it repeated.

Not taken personally Charles, but it may be HRod's best role with the Reds is all I'm saying. He can already play the infield positions , his bat only profiles as a plus at 2nd or SS and he's not supplanting BP and doesn't have the D to supplant Cozart. I like Frazier better at third. HRod is not an everyday outfielder, neither is Todd. I think you need a better bat to play LF every day. A super sub is extremely valuable, especially one that can freakin' hit and sans much home run power that is HRod.

Either that or trade the guy (or Frazier keep whichever you like best).

I think Henry is in AAA right now so they can bring him up sooner than later to fill this very role (Cairo like sub) by season's end. That is - if he continues to hit at AAA.

Dan
07-06-2012, 01:05 PM
I think HRod will have a career similar to Bill Mueller. Strikes me as the same type of hitter (spray, decent average, gap power, good obp) and plays 3b and can fill in at 2b if needed.

I'd love to see him manning 3b next year, with Frazier moving into the super-sub role.

bellhead
07-06-2012, 04:39 PM
The pitching is fine. The bullpen seems underworked and not sharp.


As a Reds fan I thought I would never see the day when this played out...

:beerme:

_Sir_Charles_
07-06-2012, 06:22 PM
Not taken personally Charles, but it may be HRod's best role with the Reds is all I'm saying. He can already play the infield positions , his bat only profiles as a plus at 2nd or SS and he's not supplanting BP and doesn't have the D to supplant Cozart. I like Frazier better at third. HRod is not an everyday outfielder, neither is Todd. I think you need a better bat to play LF every day. A super sub is extremely valuable, especially one that can freakin' hit and sans much home run power that is HRod.

Either that or trade the guy (or Frazier keep whichever you like best).

I think Henry is in AAA right now so they can bring him up sooner than later to fill this very role (Cairo like sub) by season's end. That is - if he continues to hit at AAA.

My point is that if you settle on a position for a kid, he'll quickly grow more comfortable and confident in his defensive play there. He'll also worry about it less and be able to focus more on his hitting. When you juggle a guy around all the time like they did with Frazier, it really messes with your HITTING more than people realize. You want your defenders to be comfortable enough there that they REACT instead of thinking about what to do before they do it. The mental side of the game is the part that simply can't be broken down by numbers and juggling positions has a great impact on the mental part of the game.

His d might not be as good as Cozarts, but if he were left at short...the combination of his bat and his glove MIGHT push out Cozart. But truthfully, I think he's best suited for 2b.

RedlegJake
07-06-2012, 07:08 PM
I agree with you completely Charles. But that is in a perfect world when the timing works out for a player. Unfortunately, especially for infielders, it seems, when there isn't a clear cut position open or the player isn't clearly the better player this happens all the time. I agree 100% that is has affected Todd's hitting big time and I think it has especially hampered his D which he has been knocked for which I think is unfair. Leave the guy at third for a long enough to let him learn the intricacies of the position and he'll do fine.

I think HRod is a different animal than Todd anyway. Frazier has more power but I'll bet HRod is a much better Pct/OBP hitter. Either way they handle it I think he'll definitely help the team.

_Sir_Charles_
07-06-2012, 11:26 PM
I agree with you completely Charles. But that is in a perfect world when the timing works out for a player. Unfortunately, especially for infielders, it seems, when there isn't a clear cut position open or the player isn't clearly the better player this happens all the time. I agree 100% that is has affected Todd's hitting big time and I think it has especially hampered his D which he has been knocked for which I think is unfair. Leave the guy at third for a long enough to let him learn the intricacies of the position and he'll do fine.

I think HRod is a different animal than Todd anyway. Frazier has more power but I'll bet HRod is a much better Pct/OBP hitter. Either way they handle it I think he'll definitely help the team.

Fair points. Like I said, I don't really disagree with you...it's just that the handling of Frazier has me kinda touchy on this subject.

Scrap Irony
07-07-2012, 02:31 AM
The combination of Rodriguez and Frazier is fine for a year or two. Both guys can play other positions which makes it far easier to keep both on the roster at the same time, thereby having a good bat on the bench most of the time.

CF is the weak link. LF is bad too (though I think finding a middling LF is easier than finding a middling CF).

Every other spot on the roster looks pretty good.

Personally, I'd deal a couple prospect pitchers for a couple OF prospects. I'm fairly sure Boston would deal Jackie Bradley and Bryce Brentz for Daniel Corcino and Kyle Lotzkar. It'd be a year or two, but that would help balance the roster.

RedlegJake
07-07-2012, 07:49 AM
The combination of Rodriguez and Frazier is fine for a year or two. Both guys can play other positions which makes it far easier to keep both on the roster at the same time, thereby having a good bat on the bench most of the time.

CF is the weak link. LF is bad too (though I think finding a middling LF is easier than finding a middling CF).

Every other spot on the roster looks pretty good.

Personally, I'd deal a couple prospect pitchers for a couple OF prospects. I'm fairly sure Boston would deal Jackie Bradley and Bryce Brentz for Daniel Corcino and Kyle Lotzkar. It'd be a year or two, but that would help balance the roster.

You like Bradley and Brentz better than LaMarre and Fellhauer? Enough to give up two pretty good arms? I mean I dont know those two prospects so I'm asking seriously.

dman
07-07-2012, 10:14 AM
Here are our holes right now... This is how I think things shake out

3rd base Henry Rodriguez, the Reds have bumped him today to AAA, he hit at every level, plays above average D converted 2nd baseman. He's a switch hitter and has hit at every level. He will get a chance for this position in spring training.

LF Todd Frazier, guys gonna play next year, I think he's a 15 to mid 20's guy with a 270 average and mans the LF spot for the next 5 years.

CF Heisy and Stubbs for at least another year... Billy Hamilton will not be up until 2014 at the earliest. A lot depends on his AA play which will begin very soon.

Zach Greinke...

With the article this week in the business paper their might be legs to this. Would Greinke take a 7 or 8 year deal for 120 to 140 million and play for the good guys. This would eat up the payroll needed to improve the position side of the house though, would you all be willing to have next year. With the rumors of him wanting to stay in a mid market community maybe that puts the big market suiters out of play.
Would he be willing to come over and form a part of the 5 horsemen.

If this were to happen Bronson and Homer are gone next year, with Chapman filling Homer's spot. Both have good trade value and would bring some good prospects.

I would be willing to live with a subpar/young lineup with running those 5 guys out there for the next 4 years...

Leake, Chapman, Cueto, Latos, and Greinke:):):):):):)

I don't ever see Chapman as being a starter in any lifetime. We're into out 3rd season of seeing Aroldis Chapman pitch, and for the most part, I still see the same Aroldis Chapman that I saw in 2010.... A two pitch pitcher that relies too heavily on his fastball, which he tends to have trouble commanding often times. When he's on, he's really on, but when he's off his game, it gets us into big trouble. When the league wasn't seeing enough of Chapman to know what facing him was like, then it was great, he was virtually unstoppable, but now that opposing teams have seen more of him, it's starting to catch up. Chapman's stuff is great for the short hauls of being a closer, but there's no way that would ever fly for a starting pitcher.

Home Bailey is like having a schizophrenic starter. Figuring out which Homer Bailey you'll get on the day's he starts is very aggravating. I think he's the one I let go. Homer's had enough seasons now with this team to prove himself, and I haven't seen enough improvement out of him to justify keeping him, IMO. But I really don't think he'd have much trade value.

Bronson Arroyo, like him or not, has been as consistent as they get. He may not have the most dazzling of stuff, but he has been as steady as they come. I think the Reds should try to keep him, albeit at a much lower cost, and they may have a good shot at it. Bronson is starting to age, and there probably aren't going to be a lot of teams that would be lining up to pay him any more than the Reds could pay him.

Unfortunately that leaves trading off some of the farm talent that we have waiting in the wings right now.

RANDY IN INDY
07-07-2012, 10:17 AM
For me, the Reds badly need a dynamic, true leadoff hitter.

paulrichjr
07-07-2012, 10:20 AM
For me, the Reds badly need a dynamic, true leadoff hitter.

They already have one....in two years. Billy Hamilton

RANDY IN INDY
07-07-2012, 10:24 AM
They already have one....in two years. Billy Hamilton

That's not helping them right now, and it's a major problem. Let's hope Hamilton can hit big league pitching.

bellhead
07-07-2012, 11:38 AM
The main thing I was getting at and never said earlier was would you be willing to accept some subpar parts at the three problem positions but have a starting rotation that is the best in the majors...

Zach G.
Chapman
Cueto
Latos
Leake

But you get the Stubbs/Heisy disaster, Frazier in LF, and Hrod at 3rd for 2 years...