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membengal
07-07-2012, 11:27 AM
Yes, another hamilton thread. But with news.

Not unexpected obviously. Still, glad to see it.

membengal
07-07-2012, 11:28 AM
Oh, and that is per hamilton on twitter.

bellhead
07-07-2012, 11:57 AM
Trade in the works???

Joseph
07-07-2012, 12:13 PM
Trade in the works???

Why would a promotion to AA indicate a trade?

corkedbat
07-07-2012, 12:18 PM
Trade in the works???

I wouldn't necessarily think thsat is so. Negron went down last night for Louisville. I could see Gregorious moving up to the Bats (he's been hitting well lately), making room for Billy. With the move to double A (if he continues to produce) I could see him possible making his Cincinnati debut as soon as this time next season. September of next year is probably more likely though.

bellhead
07-07-2012, 12:20 PM
Why would a promotion to AA indicate a trade?

He's blocked by a good prospects in AA at SS and center didn't know about Negron going down at AAA let's see if Didi gets a bump.

Also tons of scouts at the AA game last night per a post in the game thread.

membengal
07-07-2012, 12:35 PM
Trade in the works???

i think more likely explanation is that he has earned a promotion.

membengal
07-07-2012, 12:37 PM
He's blocked by a good prospects in AA at SS and center didn't know about Negron going down at AAA let's see if Didi gets a bump.

Also tons of scouts at the AA game last night per a post in the game thread.

If Billy Hamilton is truly a top 25 in all of baseball minor league prospect (per some of the mid-season lists), he shouldn't be "blocked" by anyone in the minors portion of the organization. You move others to accommodate such talents when they are ready to move.

Kc61
07-07-2012, 12:47 PM
Why would a promotion to AA indicate a trade?

Obviously, the promotion doesn't indicate a trade, but I think a trade is coming.

Again, as I've said before, the Reds aren't paying Joey 225 million smackers to hit with no baserunners all the time. They will be fixing the tablesetter situation.

Around All Star break there usually is movement in the minors. This particular year, I'd guess that it could involve a trade of some prospects. Not suggesting Hamilton will be traded, I'd be shocked if that happened.

Might be an interesting week or two.

M2
07-07-2012, 01:05 PM
Doubt this has anything to do with a trade (of Hamilton at least). You don't promote guys who are thriving in order to trade them. If they take time to adjust to their new level it undercuts their value. Maybe Gregorious is on the block, which would explain the scouts at AA last night.

Hamilton's torched the Cali league. Time to see how he fares in AA.

bellhead
07-07-2012, 02:21 PM
Doubt this has anything to do with a trade (of Hamilton at least). You don't promote guys who are thriving in order to trade them. If they take time to adjust to their new level it undercuts their value. Maybe Gregorious is on the block, which would explain the scouts at AA last night.

Hamilton's torched the Cali league. Time to see how he fares in AA.

that's what I was implying. Didi may be on the block, he is an excellent defensive SS right now, the question is will he hit at an acceptable rate in the majors.

19braves77
07-07-2012, 04:01 PM
I would take Didi hitting over Alicides Escobar of the Royals.

I am at the stadium now waiting for Trent Richardson. Gates open at 4 today. Didi along with JC had their luggage with them. I am betting they are the two called up on Monday.

corkedbat
07-07-2012, 04:32 PM
Not sure what his balue is on the trade market is for Didi right now and I certainly wouldn't balk at including him in a deal if it was necessary to improve the big club. As a LH MI prospect I wouldn't mind seeing him as the Reds backup SS in a year or two, if nothing else.

Gregorious (L) , HRod (B), Frazier (R), a backup catcher and right and left-handed OFs could make a solid becnh in a year or two down the road.

corkedbat
07-07-2012, 04:38 PM
They may wait another two weeks or so to let him fully rebound from his time on the DL, but It would not shock me to see them move Lutz to Pensacola and possibly Mills to Louisville. Josh Feldhauer and Ryan LaMarre are a couple more names I could see on the bus to L'Ville if they want to start moving OF's up the ladder.

rgslone
07-07-2012, 05:26 PM
I certainly don't mind the Reds trading Gregorius (or any prospect at this point) for the right piece to win now. However, as far as Gregorius' future in the Reds organization, I don't think he's blocked at SS. I've been happy with Cozart - good defense and decent bat - but I don't see him as blocking Gregorious. By all accounts, Gregorious is an even better defender than Cozart and his hitting for average may be better too (although Cozart certainly looks to have the power advantage).

corkedbat
07-07-2012, 07:07 PM
I certainly don't mind the Reds trading Gregorius (or any prospect at this point) for the right piece to win now. However, as far as Gregorius' future in the Reds organization, I don't think he's blocked at SS. I've been happy with Cozart - good defense and decent bat - but I don't see him as blocking Gregorious. By all accounts, Gregorious is an even better defender than Cozart and his hitting for average may be better too (although Cozart certainly looks to have the power advantage).

I could esily see Cozart and Didi sharing time at SS in some form or another.

RedlegJake
07-07-2012, 07:15 PM
I love the move up for Hamilton. Now is the time to see if he keeps up the discipline and walk rate as he advances. I expect the iso power to decline quite a bit especially at first but if he keeps getting on base, keeps his average at .280 or above and his .OBP at .350 or better by season's end I'll be happy (thrilled) with his progress.

mth123
07-07-2012, 07:32 PM
I could esily see Cozart and Didi sharing time at SS in some form or another.

Agreed. I'm a big Cozart fan, but he's pretty splitty and a left handed alter-ego makes a ton of sense. It doesn't need to be a straight platoon, but a guy who can capably man SS while playing twice a week against RHP makes the position better and I'd guess Cozart will also play better on the days that he does play with less exposure.

rgslone
07-07-2012, 07:35 PM
I could esily see Cozart and Didi sharing time at SS in some form or another.

I can't see Cozart and Gregorious splitting time at SS. One should be traded before that point. Leaving aside Hamilton, if Gregorious hits well enough to where the Reds would call him up and have him take starts, then a decision should be made in regard to who to keep and who to trade. A good defensive MLB caliber SS who can hit decently is too valuable of a commodity to simply keep for spot starts. A SS like that could bring too good of a return to waste like that.

19braves77
07-07-2012, 07:37 PM
I can't see Cozart and Gregorious splitting time at SS. One should be traded before that point. Leaving aside Hamilton, if Gregorious hits well enough to where the Reds would call him up and have him take starts, then a decision should be made in regard to who to keep and who to trade. A good defensive MLB caliber SS who can hit decently is too valuable of a commodity to simply keep for spot starts. A SS like that could bring too good of a return to waste like that.

True. The Cubs got Matt Garza due to Hak Ju Lee being included.

mth123
07-07-2012, 08:55 PM
I can't see Cozart and Gregorious splitting time at SS. One should be traded before that point. Leaving aside Hamilton, if Gregorious hits well enough to where the Reds would call him up and have him take starts, then a decision should be made in regard to who to keep and who to trade. A good defensive MLB caliber SS who can hit decently is too valuable of a commodity to simply keep for spot starts. A SS like that could bring too good of a return to waste like that.

Except both are probably over-exposed playing every day. I think as a tandem, they could make the Reds SS production among the best in the league. On their own, they are defensive specialists who will struggle to get on base and be in the bottom half of the league production wise. Not sure that either would bring back more than an interchangeable part on their own.

osuredleg24
07-07-2012, 08:57 PM
Im excited cause i'm going to a Blue Wahoos game later this month!

MikeS21
07-07-2012, 10:02 PM
I love the move up for Hamilton. Now is the time to see if he keeps up the discipline and walk rate as he advances. I expect the iso power to decline quite a bit especially at first but if he keeps getting on base, keeps his average at .280 or above and his .OBP at .350 or better by season's end I'll be happy (thrilled) with his progress.
That would be nice, but he's gonna have to step his game up quite a bit at the plate. Getting on base just became MUCH more difficult.

RedlegJake
07-08-2012, 01:16 AM
That would be nice, but he's gonna have to step his game up quite a bit at the plate. Getting on base just became MUCH more difficult.

I know. This is what I've been waiting for - to see how much he can do at this level. Big step up. Moving from an incredibly friendly hitter's league to a neutral or a bit suppressive league. Facing a much better level of pitching. Running against guys who are better at holding him on and catchers who are better at throwing. This, imo, is the most difficult test he faces until he actually jumps to the big leagues. Here is where so many guys stumble on their climb.

corkedbat
07-08-2012, 02:32 AM
I think there's a good chance that Billy stryggles quite a bit the second half, but I think it will serve him well next year. All depends on how he is at adapting to new challenges.

dougdirt
07-08-2012, 12:48 PM
I think there's a good chance that Billy stryggles quite a bit the second half, but I think it will serve him well next year. All depends on how he is at adapting to new challenges.

Hamilton has had some prolonged struggles in his career and every time he has rebounded incredibly well. He didn't hit much at all in the GCL the year he was drafted. Then he went to Billings the next year and hit .318 with some patience. He then struggled mightily over the first half in Dayton. Then he hit incredibly well over the second half.

With that said, I am with you in that I think Hamilton could struggle some in AA upon his promotion. But, Hamilton has responded, eventually, with each struggle. The guy works incredibly hard.

Scrap Irony
07-08-2012, 03:17 PM
Hamilton has had some prolonged struggles in his career and every time he has rebounded incredibly well. He didn't hit much at all in the GCL the year he was drafted. Then he went to Billings the next year and hit .318 with some patience. He then struggled mightily over the first half in Dayton. Then he hit incredibly well over the second half.

With that said, I am with you in that I think Hamilton could struggle some in AA upon his promotion. But, Hamilton has responded, eventually, with each struggle. The guy works incredibly hard.

Which is why many really like him as a prospect.

He's shown a rare ability to overcome hardships, perservere, and dominate his league.

Blitz Dorsey
07-08-2012, 11:01 PM
Move him to CF now. Cozart is our SS of the present and future. We don't have a legit CF. We don't have a legit leadoff hitter. Hamilton could be ideal for both roles.

We all know he's not going to be a SS at the MLB level. Move him to CF now. No need to wait.

Steve4192
07-08-2012, 11:36 PM
Move him to CF now. Cozart is our SS of the present and future.

Cozart is a decent enough placeholder, but I am not sure I want him as 'the future' for the Reds at SS. He's got a nice glove and some pop in his bat, but he is an out machine. He's basically the SS equivalent of Drew Stubbs (great glove, good power, oodles of outs) and I don't see anyone pining for Stubbs as 'the future' at CF.

If Hamilton can continue to get on base and improve his defense enough to stick at SS, I'd much rather have him as 'the future'.

bellhead
07-09-2012, 12:00 AM
Cozart is a decent enough placeholder, but I am not sure I want him as 'the future' for the Reds at SS. He's got a nice glove and some pop in his bat, but he is an out machine. He's basically the SS equivalent of Drew Stubbs (great glove, good power, oodles of outs) and I don't see anyone pining for Stubbs as 'the future' at CF.

If Hamilton can continue to get on base and improve his defense enough to stick at SS, I'd much rather have him as 'the future'.

Let's give him 500 ab's in the majors at least, Stubbs is in his 3rd full year.

camisadelgolf
07-09-2012, 12:29 AM
Did I hear correctly on the TV today that Cozart set the record for doubles by a shortstop before the All-Star break?

fearofpopvol1
07-09-2012, 01:12 AM
Did I hear correctly on the TV today that Cozart set the record for doubles by a shortstop before the All-Star break?

Yes you did, with 21. Passed Nomar Garciapara's prior record.

powersackers
07-09-2012, 01:57 AM
Yes you did, with 21. Passed Nomar Garciapara's prior record.

Didn't know they tracked such records. But that's quite an accomplishment. I think we are missing the forest for the trees a bit with Cozart. I want 1500 mlb at bats before I ever proclaim to know what type of player he is. And that means Didi and Billy better move positions or be traded in my mind.

fearofpopvol1
07-09-2012, 03:50 AM
Didn't know they tracked such records. But that's quite an accomplishment. I think we are missing the forest for the trees a bit with Cozart. I want 1500 mlb at bats before I ever proclaim to know what type of player he is. And that means Didi and Billy better move positions or be traded in my mind.

Cozart is quietly having a very nice rookie season. He's been an above average fielder and base runner. He may end up hitting 20 home runs and 40 doubles. That would be awesome for a rookie shortstop! His problem is his OBP. He's at .297. He just needs to be moved down in the order, probably to the 6 or 7 spot to really thrive.

rgslone
07-09-2012, 08:57 AM
Cozart is quietly having a very nice rookie season. He's been an above average fielder and base runner. He may end up hitting 20 home runs and 40 doubles. That would be awesome for a rookie shortstop! His problem is his OBP. He's at .297. He just needs to be moved down in the order, probably to the 6 or 7 spot to really thrive.

Ideally, until his ability to get on base improves, I agree that he should bat down in the line-up. The problem, of course, is that this team is loaded with guys who need to hit 6th - 8th, and somebody has to hit 1st 2nd and 4th. I keep thinking that Cozart is going to turn the corner on the OBP issue; but, then again, isn't this pretty much what his minor league stats indicated? Don't get me wrong, however, I'm a Cozart fan - and for the first time in a while I don't feel like the SS position is an issue for the Reds. Still, with his speed and power, if he could improve his OBP enough he sure would look nice hitting 2nd.

redsmetz
07-09-2012, 10:31 AM
Didn't know they tracked such records. But that's quite an accomplishment. I think we are missing the forest for the trees a bit with Cozart. I want 1500 mlb at bats before I ever proclaim to know what type of player he is. And that means Didi and Billy better move positions or be traded in my mind.

Am I understanding the clubs current position on this (or perhaps many folks here; well at least some) that one or the other can make the situation later, but to develop them as shortstops until it's necessary to move them? I can imagine it's a delicate balancing act as to when to pull the trigger on this type thing. Such a move would impact other prospects besides either of these two.

OesterPoster
07-09-2012, 10:59 AM
Wasn't sure if it was posted in one of the other ten Hamilton threads...but a new article by Jeff Passan:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/reds-farmhand-billy-hamilton-might-be-the-fastest-player-ever--has-104-stolen-bases-this-year.html


The stories are told with such certainty they're almost apocryphal. There may not be a player with a tool commensurate to Hamilton's speed – not Bryce Harper's power, not Rick Ankiel's arm, not Brendan Ryan's glove, not Justin Verlander's fastball, not even Mariano Rivera's cutter.

MikeS21
07-09-2012, 11:02 AM
With Hamilton, its the little things that will go a long way, and most of those little things may never show up in a box score.

Things like being a distraction to the defense while on base. One thing about growing up listening to Marty and Joe during the Reds games was that Joe Nuxhall was a great baseball teacher. Joe Morgan was a master at being a distraction and Nuxhall would describe a lot of those little things.

For example, the 1B holding the runner on at 1B, creates a hole on the right side of the infield. As a result, the 2B has to move a step or two more towards 1B in order to plug the hole. Sparky figured out that if he put a right handed hitter like Foster, Bench, or Perez, that when Morgan would attempt a steal, the 2B would cover 2B (a LH batter has the SS covering 2B on a steal), and that resulted in the 2B cheating a step closer to 2B. The end result would be then the SS would cheat closer to 2B to help out, leaving more holes in the infield.

MikeS21
07-09-2012, 11:02 AM
For some reason, this was a double post

dougdirt
07-09-2012, 11:29 AM
Didn't know they tracked such records. But that's quite an accomplishment. I think we are missing the forest for the trees a bit with Cozart. I want 1500 mlb at bats before I ever proclaim to know what type of player he is. And that means Didi and Billy better move positions or be traded in my mind.

So you want to wait until after his age 28 season to proclaim what type of player he is? If Cozart were currently 22, I would say you have a point. But he is 26 (will be 27 in 4 weeks). The 'quick progress' part of his game is probably unlikely to come along at this age. He is probably very close to what he is at this point.

fearofpopvol1
07-09-2012, 02:29 PM
Ideally, until his ability to get on base improves, I agree that he should bat down in the line-up. The problem, of course, is that this team is loaded with guys who need to hit 6th - 8th, and somebody has to hit 1st 2nd and 4th. I keep thinking that Cozart is going to turn the corner on the OBP issue; but, then again, isn't this pretty much what his minor league stats indicated? Don't get me wrong, however, I'm a Cozart fan - and for the first time in a while I don't feel like the SS position is an issue for the Reds. Still, with his speed and power, if he could improve his OBP enough he sure would look nice hitting 2nd.

I think it could be solved easier than that. If it were me (until some of these guys improve), I would go...

Phillips
Hanigan
Votto
Frazier
Bruce
Ludwick
Cozart
Stubbs

If Mez is playing, I would go...

Phillips
Mez
Votto
Frazier
Bruce
Ludwick
Cozart
Stubbs

M2
07-09-2012, 03:29 PM
I think it could be solved easier than that. If it were me (until some of these guys improve), I would go...

Phillips
Hanigan
Votto
Frazier
Bruce
Ludwick
Cozart
Stubbs

If Mez is playing, I would go...

Phillips
Mez
Votto
Frazier
Bruce
Ludwick
Cozart
Stubbs

I like your lineup.

What I'd really like though is:

Capable CF leadoff
Phillips
Votto
Frazier
Bruce
Ludwick
Hanigan/Mes
Cozart

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-09-2012, 04:49 PM
Billy Hamilton - fastest player ever?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/reds-farmhand-billy-hamilton-might-be-the-fastest-player-ever--has-104-stolen-bases-this-year.html

Sea Ray
07-09-2012, 11:09 PM
Billy Hamilton - fastest player ever?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/reds-farmhand-billy-hamilton-might-be-the-fastest-player-ever--has-104-stolen-bases-this-year.html

Deion Sanders is the fastest player I've ever seen here in Cincinnati. Herb Washington was probably the fastest MLB player ever

gonelong
07-10-2012, 10:38 AM
I like your lineup.

What I'd really like though is:

Capable CF leadoff
Phillips
Votto
Frazier
Bruce
Ludwick
Hanigan/Mes
Cozart

Sign me up, that looks delicious. Where do we get a Capable CF Leadoff hitter though? (C'mon Billy Hamilton!)

GL

11larkin11
07-11-2012, 10:45 AM
Sign me up, that looks delicious. Where do we get a Capable CF Leadoff hitter though? (C'mon Billy Hamilton!)

GL

Shane Victorino, Dexter Fowler, David Dejesus, Denard Span, Ben Revere, etc.

There is a good market for High OBP CF on team that will be seller's at the deadline, it's all about what Walt wants to spend to get them.

corkedbat
07-11-2012, 12:11 PM
Shane Victorino, Dexter Fowler, David Dejesus, Denard Span, Ben Revere, etc.

There is a good market for High OBP CF on team that will be seller's at the deadline, it's all about what Walt wants to spend to get them.

Is DeJesus a CF option?

11larkin11
07-11-2012, 12:27 PM
Is DeJesus a CF option?

He's played 15 games there this year, and 42 over the past 3 years. While I'm sure his defense is below average in CF, he's at least been there. 07 was the last time he spent a full season there. We've been spoiled by great defense at every spot over the last few years (if you put Heisey in Left), which is why Fowler, Victorino, Span, and Revere may all be better choices. But if you want a table setter for Votto, I would take his below average defense in small GABP to get more RBI's for Votto.

mdccclxix
07-11-2012, 01:51 PM
Getting ahead, let's say Hamilton maintains his pace in AA the rest of the year. There has to be a chance he'd start 2013 in AAA right? Realistically, he could be a May/June callup next year to avoid super 2 and all that. It's realistic, but perhaps just best case scenario, which isn't always going to happen. If the Reds decided he was going to play CF and leadoff, assuming Billy continues to progress, how could they not see him as at least a wash over the .550 or whatever OPS from leadoff this year? Trade Stubbs for payflex, insert Heisey full time CF, then callup Billy if he's going Jay Bruce on AAA.

corkedbat
07-11-2012, 02:00 PM
Getting ahead, let's say Hamilton maintains his pace in AA the rest of the year. There has to be a chance he'd start 2013 in AAA right? Realistically, he could be a May/June callup next year to avoid super 2 and all that. It's realistic, but perhaps just best case scenario, which isn't always going to happen. If the Reds decided he was going to play CF and leadoff, assuming Billy continues to progress, how could they not see him as at least a wash over the .550 or whatever OPS from leadoff this year? Trade Stubbs for payflex, insert Heisey full time CF, then callup Billy if he's going Jay Bruce on AAA.

If Billy joins the Wahoos and seamlessly continues to hit as he has at bakersfield, I'd say the Reds might give him an opportunity out of Spring training as a SS (he would need at least a AAA season at CF to be ready). I think that;s probably moot though because I expect at least an initial adjustment period in AA.

mdccclxix
07-11-2012, 02:15 PM
He would have the offseason to continue working on his game defensively, and it would have to be significant progress for the Reds to consider him MLB ready at short. They could also go the other route and switch him to CF in the offseason and I'd say he'd be passable out there before the whole 2013 year passed by and quite likely by May or June. Again, this all depends on the hitting being ready. I just think if the trade deadline comes and goes with lots of interest for Hamilton but the Reds keep him, that could precipitate some other moves around the roster that involve money and whether or not Stubbs, Heisey, Cozart, Janish, or Gregorius are with the team. Hamilton has a lot of gravity right now with the potential to add mass.

Scrap Irony
07-11-2012, 02:19 PM
Hamilton has a track record of struggling in his initial foray up a league. It may take him the rest of the year to find sustained success in AA.

More likely than dominating AA and AAA for a June move to the top of the Red batting order and hearts of Reds' fans everywhere is a half season at AA this year and another half season next, maybe the entire season. Then a year in Louisville.

I'd say he begins his time with Cincinnati in September of 2014.

mdccclxix
07-11-2012, 02:28 PM
I tend to agree the wait will be longer, but I just thought I'd introduce the possibility that it could go faster. We've seen the payoff on waiting (Votto, Alonso, Frazier) vs rushing (Bailey, Bruce). But you could argue it's all gone as well as it could have with Bailey, Bruce, Stubbs, and even Cueto. The general tag line with "rushed" prospects is that they had nothing left to learn at their level, which I often find hard to believe. In Bruce and Bailey's cases, clearly they did have things they could have learned. The question becomes can they help the Reds while learning the hard way? It also becomes a question of ticket sales. In this way, I think the baton of hyped-and-less-than-ready-prospects-that-can-help-the-Reds-win-games-AND-sell-tickets could be passed from Bailey to Bruce to Hamilton. I bet Hamilton's first game would see some nice attendance.

The Rage
07-11-2012, 03:03 PM
I tend to agree the wait will be longer, but I just thought I'd introduce the possibility that it could go faster. We've seen the payoff on waiting (Votto, Alonso, Frazier) vs rushing (Bailey, Bruce). But you could argue it's all gone as well as it could have with Bailey, Bruce, Stubbs, and even Cueto. The general tag line with "rushed" prospects is that they had nothing left to learn at their level, which I often find hard to believe. In Bruce and Bailey's cases, clearly they did have things they could have learned. The question becomes can they help the Reds while learning the hard way? It also becomes a question of ticket sales. In this way, I think the baton of hyped-and-less-than-ready-prospects-that-can-help-the-Reds-win-games-AND-sell-tickets could be passed from Bailey to Bruce to Hamilton. I bet Hamilton's first game would see some nice attendance.

Bailey and Bruce were both rushed, but the Reds were so desperate for talent. Both also got flaws that seem to be taking them forever to correct. Homer it is the tempo with his mechanics. Bruce, going the otheway with his swing. It is very much a "feel" issues. Both could be superstars....if they get that feel down(ala Homer in LA for the last 3 innings).

I don't see that kind of pressure for Hamilton. He just needs to get on base in the leadoff spot. Nobody is desperate for a superstar. So he has one thing to worry about and one thing only.

redsmetz
07-12-2012, 01:16 PM
C. Trent Rosecrans weekly column was on Hamilton and, particularly, his appearance in the Futures Game.

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/article-25798-billy_hamilton_turns_heads_at_futures_game.html

powersackers
07-13-2012, 04:20 PM
I predict Billy will have the minor league stolen base record by August 12th. Sometime during that home series with Chattanooga. That's within the next 30 games.

He plays two games today, starting at 5:15pm.

treetops
07-14-2012, 06:30 AM
Couple of Klaw comments on Billy...

From his updated top 50 (he was the only Reds prospect on the list):
27. Billy Hamilton, SS, Cincinnati Reds (age 21)
Current level: Double-A (Pensacola)
Preseason ranking: 64

You saw the game-changing speed if you watched the Futures Game on Sunday, and you also saw why he might end up moving to second or, more likely, to center field. He looked stronger to me this year than he did last year, which will be key if he is going to keep his OBP up. The speed is great, but I'm trying not to overweigh it in these rankings. Michael Bourn stole 61 bases last year, yet added a bit more than seven runs of value on the bases, according to FanGraphs, so a reasonable expectation for Hamilton might be 9-10 runs a year, or about a win of value. He might be the most valuable fantasy prospect in the minors and is a very good prospect in the field, but there is a gap between those two values.

And from a chat:
Rob (Wilkes-Barre, PA): Higher ceiling: Billy Hamilton or Juan Pierre?
Klaw: Hamilton's better than Pierre ever was.

Steve4192
07-14-2012, 03:10 PM
And from a chat:
Rob (Wilkes-Barre, PA): Higher ceiling: Billy Hamilton or Juan Pierre?
Klaw: Hamilton's better than Pierre ever was.

Not sure I agree with that, unless he is taking positional scarcity into account.

Pierre's hit tool is WAY better than Hamilton's. The guy was a legit 300 hitter who almost never struck out, and was durable as hell. Hopefully, Billy can close the gap offensively by being more selective at the plate and a getting thrown out a little less on the basepaths (Pierre was never an exceptional percentage basestealer). If he does that and sticks at an up-the-middle position, he'll be a valuable little player.

The only reason Pierre gets crapped on so much is because the Dodgers signed him to a ridiculous contract and then shifted him to LF (nobody loves a judy hitting LF). If he were signed to a more reasonable deal and played an adequate CF, he would have a been a valuable player on most teams rosters. Pulling down eight digits and playing LF, not so much.

PuffyPig
07-14-2012, 03:23 PM
If he were signed to a more reasonable deal and played an adequate CF, he would have a been a valuable player on most teams rosters. Pulling down eight digits and playing LF, not so much.

There was a reason he was moved from CF.

corkedbat
07-14-2012, 04:48 PM
Pierre might be able to survive in CF, IF.Zach Cozart sprints toward cneter on every ball hit that way and Juan hands him the ball. He has been termed a noodle arm, but that only a noodle that has been way over-cooked.

19braves77
07-14-2012, 05:04 PM
I have always liked Juan Pierre.

He had more hits last year with the White Sox than anyone on last year's Phillies roster. Took a contract for 800,000 in a utility role with smile. That says a lot.

He's outplayed Shane Victorino this season.

Heard Reds are interested in him at the trade deadline.

Steve4192
07-14-2012, 05:45 PM
There was a reason he was moved from CF.

The reason was Matt Kemp was better at it. That doesn't mean Pierre was a bad fielder. The Dodgers just chose to take the CF with the weakest arm and stick him in LF.

I've always considered him to be a more than adequate flycatcher with a less than adequate arm. As far as converting batted balls into outs goes, he is perfectly serviceable in CF. Sure, he's not going to do you any favors when it comes to preventing baserunners from advancing, but in the grand scheme of things, creating outs is FAR more important than controlling the running game.

redsmetz
07-16-2012, 08:53 AM
Here's a clip of Hamilton's inside the park home run from last night's game. Eric Davis was there and watch him just shake his head when Hamilton comes into the dugout.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19592737/video-billy-hamiltons-blazing-insidethepark-home-run

Scrap Irony
07-16-2012, 10:20 AM
Here's a clip of Hamilton's inside the park home run from last night's game. Eric Davis was there and watch him just shake his head when Hamilton comes into the dugout.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19592737/video-billy-hamiltons-blazing-insidethepark-home-run

From the article:


According to Baseball Prospectus' Larry Granillo, who tracks such things on his Tater Trot Tracker at BP, Hamilton rounded the bases in 13.8 seconds. It's the fastest he's ever timed a player circling the bases.

He also jogged home from third base.

I'm guessing Hamilton leads the entire minor leagues in head shaking and incredulous smiles.