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icehole3
07-09-2012, 08:37 AM
front office, players, coaches, manager, minors, whole organization :)

Dan
07-09-2012, 08:50 AM
Front office: B+

The pitching that was acquired or held over has been outstanding. Hoover, Simon, Marshall have all contributed. The front office could certainly have done more to shore up the bench. They also have yet to address the top of the lineup OBP issue.

Manager: B-

We all know Dusty's strengths and faults, so stating them here would just be a rehash. But he is leading a team that is very solidly in the running, and definitely seems to have that fire in his belly this year for a winner.

Position players: B+

They're about what we were expecting: Votto is at his usual MVP level. Bruce is doing his thing. So is Phillips. Frazier and Cozart have been more productive than we might have thought. Ludwick has come on in the last month or so. Mez is showing solid D but not yet hitting. Hanigan has been solid if unspectacular. And Stubbs has fallen off the face of the earth.

Pitching: A

What more can be said? Everyone's healthy. They're putting up quality start after quality start. Going deep into ballgames is only going to let the bullpen stay rested and ready for the stretch. The only thing keeping this from being an A+ is that while Cueto and Latos might be #1s, they aren't quite the ace stoppers we want them to be. Maybe they will be that in the 2nd half.

Redsfan320
07-09-2012, 08:53 AM
Front Office- C. The off-season was great, but some tweaking needs made. Let's get on that.

Players- A-. The minus for the offense's slumps in April, and at times since, but overall they've hit decently, and the pitching has been outstanding.

Coaches- NA. Between players and Dusty, I won't grade this one. Hard to say how much impact they have on a team really. That said, this pitching staff has certainly improved a ton since Price showed up. (BTW, he's been gone for like a week on a "family matter". Hope everything's okay, but I guess its a good thing we hired an assistant pitching coach for the first time in forever :eek: )

Manager- D. Putting Cozart and Stubbs in front of Votto day after day is unacceptable. His insistence on playing Rolen as much as he can when he's healthy is also annoying. Never mind his occasional bullpen mental lapses. Oh, and I forgot to mention, catcher bats 8th. Always.

Minors- NA. Don't really follow closely enough. However, the draft seemed to go well, and clearly Billy Hamilton's a beast.

Overall- B. We've played really well so far, but we are still a game back, and I think some changes need to be made to go deep into the playoffs.

320

bucksfan2
07-09-2012, 09:35 AM
Front Office- B+ Latos and Marshall have been nice additions as well as Hoover and Simon. The Votto extension has ended speculation about where he was going to play next. Madsen would look real nice at the back end of the pen but you can't project injuries. Will be disappointed if something isn't added come July 31st, but very few trades of substance have happened so far.

Players- B Could have been a better first half.

Manager- C Team is in a decent place. Top of the order has been a mess but in reality there aren't other options. Dusty has been Dusty and hasn't really done anything that says "that was an awful decision!" I think he was a little too quick to yank Marshall out of the closer role but think the pen is better with Marshall as the floating best reliever.

Minors- D No bats anywhere near ready to help. IMO that is one of the disappointments of this year. When the best two bats in the minors are Janish and Corky you have issues. The lower minors look great but 2 years out. It will be fun to track Billy Hamilton as he progresses.

Overall- B. We've played really well so far, but we are still a game back, and I think some changes need to be made to go deep into the playoffs.

MikeS21
07-09-2012, 09:37 AM
FO - Solid B - Additions of Latos, Marshall, and Madson, and the extensions of Votto and Phillips are great moves. Couple MINOR tweaks and I give them an A.

Manager - B - Despite all the controversy and criticism and hostility toward Dusty's decision making, when all the dust settles (pun intended), Dusty is the one who has a REAL major league manager's job, and all of we arm chair managers who think we can do Dusty's job better than him, should probably hang on to our day jobs because not one single team has called any of us for our managerial expertise to offer us a REAL job.

Position Players - D - It's all about execution and hardly no one is performing up to their potential. If this group would simply perform to their career norms, this team would run away with the division. If it weren't for Joey Votto, this grade would be "F."

Pitching - A Minus - Starting pitching has been a solid A, and the bullpen, I'd give a B+. Our "worst" relievers haven't been as bad as we sometimes make them out to be. I have been disappointed in Sean Marshall

Coaches - C+/B- - Pitching and fielding coaching has been superb, but the hitting instructors need to improve.

Minors - NA - Hard to grade this one because W-L records aren't always the best way to evaluate the minors. Too many players are working on specific skills and development seems to be the important goal of the minors-even over winning.

REDREAD
07-09-2012, 10:37 AM
I give the organization an "A" so far.

They've been in first place most of the year.
Only a game out of first at the AS break.
Sure, I wish they had another 3 wins or so, but we're still in great shape.

The offseason was a solid A..
I guess I count Hoover and the Votto/Phillips extensions as part of my first half grade. The Reds look pretty good keeping Frasier and dealing Franscisco now (IMO).. Frasier may drop down in performance, but so far, he's clearly the better player.

I know people still want changes, but I think we need to wait until the trade deadline before dinging them too much for no midseason tweaks. Just like every other year, there's been relatively few moves since the season started..

So, I give the whole organization an A, not an A+, but a solid A.
From memory, we have a better run differential and other peripherals than the Pirates. We should easily pass them. I expect the Reds to do better in one run games in the second half of the season, due to the bullpen. (I think we have a slightly below 500 record in one run games now).

I'd like to see Logan used more spariingly.. I don't want him totally gassed by the end of the year, as in the past.
I would like to see an acquision that drops either Cozart or Stubbs out of the top 2. (I would prefer Cozart dropped lower and live with Stubbs' streaky bat, but I would not complain either way).

WildcatFan
07-09-2012, 11:45 AM
Front Office- B+ The Bob and Walt show went all in over the offseason while locking up Votto and Phillips for the foreseeable future. Additions of Latos, Madson, Marshall, and (dare I?) Ludwick ranged from thrifty to outstanding. How they found that coin in the couch cushions, I'll never know.

Position Players- B-. I'm still under firm belief that this team has the pieces to win the division and, potentially, the pennant. WS is a different story. If players were used to their highest capacity (Frazier starting every day and batting higher, Phillips leading off, Ludwick starting 5 days/week and batting fifth behind Bruce, Hanigan moved higher), they would be a much more formidable offense. OBP obviously needs to improve. Fielding is terrific as expected.

Pitching- A I could not have asked more from this pitching staff, and that's before Madson went down for the year. Every night, regardless of who's pitching for the bad guys, I feel we have a chance to come out with a W. Seven complete games, a 124 ERA+, a lightning bolt for a closer, forget it. I'd love to see the bullpen used a little differently, but that's splitting hairs. This is the best pitching staff of my fandom.

Coaches/Manager- D+ I've been a Dusty apologist, but some of the decisions in the first half have been inexcusable. I'd venture to guess those decisions have cost the Reds four wins, which is mind-blowing. Is Brook Jacoby still on staff? Why? Bryan Price keeps this from being an F.

Minors- C Fair note: I'm not sure about this. Best I can tell, most useful bats and arms are a couple levels away. After the Latos trade and the emergence of Frazier, Cozart, and Mesoraco, that's understandable. I could see Louisville being very good next year, and by 2014, some of these guys will be with the big league team, specifically Hamilton, Stephenson, Lotzkar, Corcino, and Gregorious.

Overall- B- There have been several wins left on the table, whether it's from poor situational hitting or poor team management. A 6-5 west coast road trip and a home-heavy second-half schedule give me confidence that they can still win the division, and I don't think it will be particularly close. At this point, the only NL teams that I give the edge to in a 5- or 7-game series against Cincinnati are Washington, San Francisco, and--man I hate to say this--St. Louis.

WildcatFan
07-09-2012, 11:45 AM
dp

Kc61
07-09-2012, 11:57 AM
Front office - long term A; for 2012 B. Can't reward front office for such obvious flaws in the offense.

Players - pitchers A; Votto A; rest of offense C; defense A.

Manager, coaches B-. Overall doing well with what they have, but some of the managerial tendencies require downgrade to B-.

Whole organization - Again, long term A, short term B.

Hard to grade too low, team is nine games over .500 at the ASB after a below .500 season last year.

icehole3
07-09-2012, 12:22 PM
Coaches- NA. Between players and Dusty, I won't grade this one. Hard to say how much impact they have on a team really. That said, this pitching staff has certainly improved a ton since Price showed up. (BTW, he's been gone for like a week on a "family matter". Hope everything's okay, but I guess its a good thing we hired an assistant pitching coach for the first time in forever :eek: )



they said on the broadcast his dad was ill

corkedbat
07-09-2012, 12:25 PM
Front Office - C+. The pitching added over the offseason deserves an A, but the lack of decent table setters in front of Joey and a bat to protect him in the cleanup spot have been there for three years without any real attempt to address them - it's to the point where a promising season could slip away if it isn't fixed now. This lack of action drags it down to a C, but Ill give it a + because of Latos last three outings.

Position Players - B-. Not a C- because of Joey Votto. Too many seven hole hitters. This organization's disdain for OBP is appalling.

Bench - F. You call that a bench? Serious upgrades needed. I'd also go a reliever short and add another bat.

Rotation - A. In as good a groove as any Reds rotation I can remember. Latos coming on makes this a formidable group. I wish Chapman were a part of it, but hey, you can't have everything.

Bullpen - B. Outstanding early in the season, but it has been hard finding the pen regular work of late and I believe some of their recent struggles stem partly from being stale. I'd reduce the pen by one and add a bat (you can always recall a guy if need). I'd like to see Hoover and Joseph for Ondrusek and Bray. Madson's injury stings more every time I think of Aroldis in the rotation.

Coaches - C-. Not Dusty's biggest fan. He has a great rapport with his players - I'll give him that, but just does too many stupid little things that grate on me to no end. I do not want him re-upped no matter how the season winds up. Mark Berry should never be allowed anywhere near 3B.

Minors - C. They have actually done a solid job of rebounding from the mass exodus in offseason deals and would have given them an A except for one thing - corner OFs. The search for a LFer now might not even be necessary had the Reds brain trust simply spent one top 10 draft choice a year over the last three or four drafts on a corner OF prospect with power potential, instead of light stick MI's and fourth OFer types.

Overall - C+. Yeah, they're right there in the thick of the NL Central race and the rotation is looking very solid. There are jalso, several issues that have been allowed to fester for too long and threaten to drag the club down. It's just not conscionable to run a couple of sub-.300 bats out there day-in-and-day-out in front of JV. It's slap in the face of the rotation and the fans too. A leadoff hitter, someone to protect Votto in the cleanup spot and a shored up bench could lift this grade to an A-. A solid would be possible if it weren't for the presence of a manager who (IMO) tends to, on average, give away a win a week with his questionable decisions. Should be leading the divison by five or six games.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-09-2012, 12:38 PM
Front office - D-plus: The Latos trade has been as advertised, Marshall has been good and the Hoover/Simon pickups were solid. Even Wilson Valdez has been a slight upgrade, IMO, over Paul Janish. However, the continued lack of addressing some key offensive deficiencies is a glaring sore spot; too many similar hitters keep this team from really soaring. Also, the continued mismanagement of Aroldis Chapman, the unrealistic expectations of Scott Rolen, the subpar bench, the lack of adequate AAA replacements and, unbelievably, sending down Todd Frazier to start the season more than offset the positives.

Players - A-minus: Joey Votto is the game's best hitter, Brandon Phillips has done what's been asked of him, the starting pitching has been lights out, the bullpen has (mostly) delivered, the defense is the best in the NL and three All-Stars (when it should have probably been five) is great. There's room for improvement though. The leadoff position, Drew Stubbs, hitting with RISP and some horrific ninth-inning defeats snatched from the jaws of victory keep this from being an A-plus.

Manager/coaches - B-minus: Dusty continues to be solid, stubborn lineups nothwithstanding. The players seem to love playing for him because of things like when he stood up for Latos during the Lowe/Indians series. His insistence on playing an obviously over-matched Scott Rolen instead of Todd Frazier is mind-numbing. Jacoby probably needs to be in his last year in Cincinnati, regardless of whether Dusty returns or not. Mark Berry has made a couple of poor decisions in holding/sending runners from third.

Fans - A: Attendance is significantly up and TV/radio ratings are through the roof.

Scrap Irony
07-09-2012, 01:18 PM
Front Office:
Acquisitions:
Madson
Ludwick
Marshall
Hoover
Simon
Latos
Valdez
Comment: Jocketty and company found an ace, a bullpen ace, an above average LF, two highly effective bullpen arms. All have performed at better than league average, aside from the injured Madson. Valdez has been decent, though Janish likely could have done just as well. They gave up a nice-looking catcher who was blocked by another, a less than league average 1B, minor league talent, and flotsam. Extended Votto and Phillips to large contracts. Going forward, they need to find/ fix leadoff with high obp player. But, so far, they've changed the tenor of the team from offense-first to pitching-dominant and have four of the five starters locked up long-term cheaply.
Grade: A-

Manager:
Comment: I'm of the opinion that in-day roster moves and batting orders matter very little in the overall scheme of things. Certainly (again, IMO) they matter less than the handling of the players and their overall psyches. Baker struggles with in-game strategies (though not as much as many here on Redszone believe). He excels with his players. The emergence of Frazier at the expense of Rolen has been handled very delicately, as has the bullpen usage. (Though Ondrusek should likely be scaled back a bit, IMO.) Losing three relievers from last season and having to patch together a pen at the past minute-- that seems lost on many here. Not on me.
Grade: B-

Pitching:
Comment: Every starter is above league average. That may be the first time that's been uttered since 1961. Latos struggled early, but has completely turned it around his last few starts. He could be in line for a monster second half. Cueto has continued to perform at ace-level production. Bailey and Leake have become MOR starters, and Arroyo has rebounded to that level as well. All have been remarkably healthy.

The bullpen has been good, but has taken a step or three backward from early season (when they were truly dominant). Chapman has been very, very good most of the time, as has Marshall, but both have given up leads and blown saves. Bad luck, for the most part. Ondrusek and Arredondo have improved, while Simon and Hoover have been godsends (absolutely phenomenal pickups for next to nothing by Jocketty). LeCure has been just as effective as last season. With both Bray and Masset in the wings (not to mention Donnie Joseph), the pen looks like it could be a nice weapon going forward.
Grade: B+

Hitting: Frazier's playing above his head. Votto too, to some extent. Everyone else is either at or below expectations.

Votto is playing at an MVP level. 'Nuff said. Frazier, Bruce, and Phillips, while mercurial, are better than league average bats and have played decently. Cozart and Ludwick have been helpful. Stubbs and Rolen have been awful. Horrid. Pathetic. Stubbs is the biggest reason the Reds are in second place instead of three or four games up right now. Just a huge disappointment so far this season, with no power, no patience, and no clue at the plate. Rolen's replacement has played very well in his absence, so it takes much of the sting out of his poor play. But he needs to step it up if he wants in the second half.

The bench has also underperformed, with the exception of Frazier, who's performed at an All-Star level. Cairo, we all saw coming. But hey, at least he's got veteran leadership. Valdez had a moment filling in at CF when both Heisey and Stubbs got dinged. Heisey has struggled coming out of the gate. So has Mesoraco, though both showed signs of returning power late in the West Coast swing.
Grade: C+

Minors:
Comments: The Reds have relied on rookies Frazier, Cozart, Mesoraco, and, to a lesser extent, Hoover all year. All have performed well. Cozart's been his expected good power, good glove, poor obp self. He's a solid starter at the major league level. Frazier's been awesome, delivering clutch hits, very good power, and unexpected obp. Mesoraco's been a disappointment offensively, but has played with very little consistency. (Hanigan looks tired, so that may change in the second half. Especially if Mesoraco's power is found.)

Going forward, both JJ Hoover and Donnie Joseph look like they're ready. They might help the pen. Henry Rodriguez, despite being injured early this year, might be underrated help in the infield. Janish also looks like he might be better than Valdez going forward.

But that's about it.

Still, four players that can help, two of them a great deal. Nice to see that.
Grade: A-

Overall: B
Comment: It's been a good half-season, but problems at the top of the order drop the overall grade. It seems as if Cincinnati wasted a golden opportunity to put away a couple teams (St. Louis in particular) that may come back and haunt. Still, the second half schedule looks promisingly easy, and the offense should be better in the second half, if only because Stubbs couldn't get any worse.

cumberlandreds
07-09-2012, 01:47 PM
Front Office: B+ They went out and did much to improve this team in the winter. Latos is a potential ace who is just starting to show why he may become that someday. It's not the front office's fault that Madson went down with injury. Just a terribly bad break. If they had strengthed the bench just a little more I would have given them an A. If they can come up with a good lefty bat at the trade deadline I would bump it up to an A.

Manager: C Dusty has made some strange decisions at times with his bullpen handling. Also his obvious ignoring OBP at the top of the order has really hurt this team. But he kept the team in the race when it went through a bad spell and has them only one game out. He's not the worst manager out there and the Reds could do much worse in hiring someone else.

Hitters: C+ Votto keeps this at about average. There has been a lot of leaving runs on the bases this season. They just can't come up with big hits at key times. Having terrible OBP at the top of the lineup has really hurt this team which falls back to the manager. Frazier has been a pleasant surprise. Phillips and Bruce have done about what is expected of them. Ludwick has been better lately and if you knew what his numbers would have been at the ASG break before the season most would have taken it. Stubbs has been a disaster and needs to go to the bench for a good long while. Rolen is just old now and may never help again. If the Reds can pick up someone that can give them good OBP at top of the lineup that may be the difference in a division winner or just missing the playoffs.

Pitching: A The rotation may be the best I have ever seen in my 41 years as a Reds fan. This has come light years in just 3 or 4 seasons. Ceuto is ace-like;Latos is looking more ace-like lately; Arroyo is back to form after being sick for most of 2011;Leake gets stronger as the weather gets warmer and Bailey may be finding that long desired consistancy we have all hoped for.
The bullpen was stellar early in the season. It couldn't be touched. It has dropped off some lately which can cause some concern. Ondrusek is struggling and Marshall can be somewhat inconsistant. The big thing may be if Chapman can be consistant in the closer role. When he was pressed in close games he didn't do so well. If you give him a two run lead or more he's lights out. If can get the outs in the one runs games he will be gold. Masset could give them a lift in the 2nd half.

Minors B The minors looks good. It has fed good players to the big club and provided good material for trades. The only reason I give a B is that AAA is barren. But everyone that would have been available from AAA has been traded. It does look like there are plenty of good prospects AA and lower. I can't wait to see Hamilton in Cincy.

Overall a B+ I think the Reds are about where they ought to be. In close contention for a division title and playoff spot. If Jocketty and company can find a really good OBP player before the trade deadline they should win this division. If they don't it will be a struggle to make the playoffs.

cumberlandreds
07-09-2012, 01:47 PM
dposted for ? reason

REDREAD
07-09-2012, 01:58 PM
Front office - D-plus: The Latos trade has been as advertised, Marshall has been good and the Hoover/Simon pickups were solid. Even Wilson Valdez has been a slight upgrade, IMO, over Paul Janish. However, the continued lack of addressing some key offensive deficiencies is a glaring sore spot; too many similar hitters keep this team from really soaring. Also, the continued mismanagement of Aroldis Chapman, the unrealistic expectations of Scott Rolen, the subpar bench, the lack of adequate AAA replacements and, unbelievably, sending down Todd Frazier to start the season more than offset the positives.
.

Yikes, D- ? Pretty harsh.. Has any front office ever gotten above a C in your opinion? I'm curious what you consider the best front office season ever?

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-09-2012, 03:53 PM
Yikes, D- ? Pretty harsh.. Has any front office ever gotten above a C in your opinion? I'm curious what you consider the best front office season ever?

D-plus, not D-minus. I guess I should have just used symbols and not words.

I would rate the O'Brien and Krivsky front offices higher - in the B/C range - even with the Hamilton/Volquez debacle. Those guys, especially DanO, were handcuffed by stingy, disinterested ownership at the time. It would be very interesting to see the current composition and makeup of this team had WK maintained his position. Assuming the Votto, Bruce, Cueto and Phillips deals were BobC-driven, those same players likely would have been re-signed no matter who the GM was.

In judging Walt, I think there's just no way around the continued offensive holes at leadoff, cleanup and in left field (though Ludwick is fine); the inconsistent handling of Aroldis Chapman; the reliance on an obviously incapable Scott Rolen going into the season; the historically inept bench; the poor decision to send down Todd Frazier prior to Opening Day (he's only our third best hitter); and the lack of any meaningful help at AAA which necessitates the promotion of over-matched fodder such as Mike Costanzo and Kris Negron.

I'm happy with the Mat Latos and Sean Marshall trades and the Ryan Madsen signing.

REDREAD
07-09-2012, 05:08 PM
D-plus, not D-minus. I guess I should have just used symbols and not words.

I would rate the O'Brien and Krivsky front offices higher - in the B/C range - even with the Hamilton/Volquez debacle. Those guys, especially DanO, were handcuffed by stingy, disinterested ownership at the time. It would be very interesting to see the current composition and makeup of this team had WK maintained his position. Assuming the Votto, Bruce, Cueto and Phillips deals were BobC-driven, those same players likely would have been re-signed no matter who the GM was.

In judging Walt, I think there's just no way around the continued offensive holes at leadoff, cleanup and in left field (though Ludwick is fine); the inconsistent handling of Aroldis Chapman; the reliance on an obviously incapable Scott Rolen going into the season; the historically inept bench; the poor decision to send down Todd Frazier prior to Opening Day (he's only our third best hitter); and the lack of any meaningful help at AAA which necessitates the promotion of over-matched fodder such as Mike Costanzo and Kris Negron.

I'm happy with the Mat Latos and Sean Marshall trades and the Ryan Madsen signing.

I guess I disagree. I feel Wayne had a decent amount of money to spend.
He was able to extend Dunn, Harang, Arroyo, and was able to sign some FAs (overall Wayne chose to sign mediocre/bad FAs like Stanton and AGon). He could add salary at the deadline, yet chose that horrible old reliever from Philly (name escapes me now).

I guess we will just disagree, but I think Walt's last offseason tops any offseason Wayne had.

DanO was a pure joke. I can't think of one good offseason he had.
Maybe refresh my memory, but he was truly a guy that sat on his hands.
Remember his updates at the winter meetings "Status quo".

I also believe that Wayne K did not value defense at all. Wayne tried to upgrade the pitching but neglected the defense (other than adding Phillips and Patterson).
Wayne was content with EdE, Dunn, Keppinger, Bako all in the field. Dunn's defense would've been tolerable if the rest of the team was a decent defensive unit.

REDREAD
07-09-2012, 05:09 PM
dp

Big Klu
07-10-2012, 10:34 AM
I guess I disagree. I feel Wayne had a decent amount of money to spend.
He was able to extend Dunn, Harang, Arroyo, and was able to sign some FAs (overall Wayne chose to sign mediocre/bad FAs like Stanton and AGon). He could add salary at the deadline, yet chose that horrible old reliever from Philly (name escapes me now).

I guess we will just disagree, but I think Walt's last offseason tops any offseason Wayne had.

DanO was a pure joke. I can't think of one good offseason he had.
Maybe refresh my memory, but he was truly a guy that sat on his hands.
Remember his updates at the winter meetings "Status quo".

I also believe that Wayne K did not value defense at all. Wayne tried to upgrade the pitching but neglected the defense (other than adding Phillips and Patterson).
Wayne was content with EdE, Dunn, Keppinger, Bako all in the field. Dunn's defense would've been tolerable if the rest of the team was a decent defensive unit.

Rheal Cormier.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-10-2012, 10:55 AM
I guess I disagree. I feel Wayne had a decent amount of money to spend.
He was able to extend Dunn, Harang, Arroyo, and was able to sign some FAs (overall Wayne chose to sign mediocre/bad FAs like Stanton and AGon). He could add salary at the deadline, yet chose that horrible old reliever from Philly (name escapes me now).

I guess we will just disagree, but I think Walt's last offseason tops any offseason Wayne had.

DanO was a pure joke. I can't think of one good offseason he had.
Maybe refresh my memory, but he was truly a guy that sat on his hands.
Remember his updates at the winter meetings "Status quo".

I also believe that Wayne K did not value defense at all. Wayne tried to upgrade the pitching but neglected the defense (other than adding Phillips and Patterson).
Wayne was content with EdE, Dunn, Keppinger, Bako all in the field. Dunn's defense would've been tolerable if the rest of the team was a decent defensive unit.

He had some good drafts and his "take a strike" policy in the low minors was credited by Joey Votto, among others, as helping him learn to hit lefties. He was handcuffed at the Big League level by the ultra stingy Carl Lindner and the baseball ignorant John Allen. But his early work at the lower levels did far more for this franchise in 2010 and beyond than he gets credit for. He essentially rebuilt a decrepit farm system that had been languishing after years of neglect. His built foundation is among the primary reasons the Reds are the contenders they are today.

I wouldn't call him a joke.

REDREAD
07-10-2012, 04:42 PM
He had some good drafts and his "take a strike" policy in the low minors was credited by Joey Votto, among others, as helping him learn to hit lefties. He was handcuffed at the Big League level by the ultra stingy Carl Lindner and the baseball ignorant John Allen. But his early work at the lower levels did far more for this franchise in 2010 and beyond than he gets credit for. He essentially rebuilt a decrepit farm system that had been languishing after years of neglect. His built foundation is among the primary reasons the Reds are the contenders they are today.

I wouldn't call him a joke.

Sure, DanO had some good drafts. I will agree with that.

His "take a first strike" policy was a disaster though. I am guessing Votto said that it helped him just to be diplomatic and not make the big boss look bad.
The Reds quickly disposed of this policy, and no other team has ever done it (to my knowledge). Remember, the Reds minor leaguers essentially been punished in the past for not towing the company line.

Regardless, the thread was about grading the Reds first half.. I guess I can't recall DanO ever doing anything good on the front office.

His memorable transactions:
Milton, Ramon Ortiz, Bong-Bubba for Reitsma.
The only decent thing I can remember is that veteran 3b he signed.. We got one good season (or was it a partial season) out of him.
If you can think of any good move that DanO did that even tops the Hoover-Franscisco trade, let me know. DanO was not completely cash strapped. He got money and blew it on Milton. He should've looked to trade for a talented player that a team wanted to salary dump on instead, but frankly DanO was lazy on roster management and making transactions that actually helped the ML team.

When all is said and done, Walt's minor league drafts might be even better than DanOs.. Did DanO ever draft a pitcher that turned out as good as Leake? Ok, I was just thinking.. he did draft Homer (I think). I guess at this point, it's too close to call. Over the long haul though, I think Walt's drafts will be more productive.

Big Klu
07-10-2012, 09:45 PM
Sure, DanO had some good drafts. I will agree with that.

His "take a first strike" policy was a disaster though. I am guessing Votto said that it helped him just to be diplomatic and not make the big boss look bad.
The Reds quickly disposed of this policy, and no other team has ever done it (to my knowledge). Remember, the Reds minor leaguers essentially been punished in the past for not towing the company line.

Regardless, the thread was about grading the Reds first half.. I guess I can't recall DanO ever doing anything good on the front office.

His memorable transactions:
Milton, Ramon Ortiz, Bong-Bubba for Reitsma.
The only decent thing I can remember is that veteran 3b he signed.. We got one good season (or was it a partial season) out of him.
If you can think of any good move that DanO did that even tops the Hoover-Franscisco trade, let me know. DanO was not completely cash strapped. He got money and blew it on Milton. He should've looked to trade for a talented player that a team wanted to salary dump on instead, but frankly DanO was lazy on roster management and making transactions that actually helped the ML team.

When all is said and done, Walt's minor league drafts might be even better than DanOs.. Did DanO ever draft a pitcher that turned out as good as Leake? Ok, I was just thinking.. he did draft Homer (I think). I guess at this point, it's too close to call. Over the long haul though, I think Walt's drafts will be more productive.

Joe Randa. Got a good half-season out of him, then traded him to the Padres for Justin Germano and Travis Chick.