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KoryMac5
07-27-2012, 02:11 PM
Mike Mauti PSU LB speaks about the NCAA's free agency rules for PSU players:





Many of the players have already decided to stay, as Penn State coach Bill O'Brien said Thursday he expects more than 50 players, so far, to return for 2012.

But that has not stopped programs from launching aggressive recruiting efforts.

Mauti, the son of former Penn State player, Rich Mauti, is also upset that the NCAA has set up this system of college free agency for Lions.

"For them [the NCAA] to say that it's helping us, for them to say that they're doing us a service by allowing us to transfer with no rules, is -- I'm going to choose my word carefully -- it's a joke,'' Mauti said Thursday afternoon here at the Big Ten meetings.

"It's an absolute joke. There's been coaches hounding our players, like, 10-12 calls a day. 'Come out and visit, come here'. [They're] on our campus, outside of our apartments, outside of our classrooms.

"To me, it just doesn't seem right. Even some coaches from this conference. … If I'm a competitor, I don't care what school you're from. If you're from any school, or any conference, I gotta problem with that.''

A lot of players have commented on being harrassed consistently even after they have said no to these opposing coaches. Is this what the NCAA is heading for in the future. Obviously PSU is a different animal, but I could see the NCAA opening up recruitment.

dougdirt
07-27-2012, 02:23 PM
Mauti is, and I am not going to choose my words so carefully, a joke, if he thinks allowing those players to transfer is a joke.

BuckeyeRed27
07-27-2012, 03:58 PM
Mauti is, and I am not going to choose my words so carefully, a joke, if he thinks allowing those players to transfer is a joke.

I could be wrong, but I think his problem is more with the hounding and the way the other coaches are going about it. I can see his point on that. If the players want to leave they can always contact other schools, but having open season where they can be recruited again is probably annoying.

Hoosier Red
07-27-2012, 04:37 PM
Mauti is, and I am not going to choose my words so carefully, a joke, if he thinks allowing those players to transfer is a joke.

I think it was more of a statement that the NCAA choosing to allow players to be free agency as a service to the players being a joke. I can see his point. It doesn't make the process good or bad, but I don't think it's done to benefit the players.

KoryMac5
07-27-2012, 04:51 PM
Yeah I don't know how you get joke from Mauti's statement. He is clearly sticking up for his fellow players. It clearly says he is not happy that coaches can harrass PSU players non stop from morning to night. One player has gotten 10-12 offers from other schools even after he said he was going to stay with Penn State. Ohio State and Wisconsin have each stated they would not get involved in the frenzy unless a player reached out to them specifically. Kudos to those two schools and coaches.

The NCAA stated they wanted to get back to education but they are willing to let kids leave mid semester, that's got to be great for a kids education.

NJReds
07-27-2012, 05:15 PM
Mauti is, and I am not going to choose my words so carefully, a joke, if he thinks allowing those players to transfer is a joke.

Allowing the players to transfer is okay, but the NCAA is a joke for allowing the players to transfer, but not putting any restrictions on coaches flocking to Penn State like sharks at a feeding frenzy.

This should be the players' decision only, and there should not be coaches contacting and harassing these guys.

Reds Freak
07-27-2012, 05:47 PM
Allowing the players to transfer is okay, but the NCAA is a joke for allowing the players to transfer, but not putting any restrictions on coaches flocking to Penn State like sharks at a feeding frenzy.

This should be the players' decision only, and there should not be coaches contacting and harassing these guys.

I'm not sure what any restrictions for other coaches in this situation would look like nor do I think it would be possible to monitor and enforce such restrictions.

If the student-athletes don't want to be hounded, tell the coaches to stop or block their numbers. The coaches will learn incessant hounding isn't the best recruiting strategy.

dougdirt
07-27-2012, 08:17 PM
Allowing the players to transfer is okay, but the NCAA is a joke for allowing the players to transfer, but not putting any restrictions on coaches flocking to Penn State like sharks at a feeding frenzy.

This should be the players' decision only, and there should not be coaches contacting and harassing these guys.

So a player has to go through each and every team in the country's depth chart and try to watch tape to see if they are better than the guys there and then contact that coach to see if they are interested?

NJReds
07-27-2012, 09:18 PM
So a player has to go through each and every team in the country's depth chart and try to watch tape to see if they are better than the guys there and then contact that coach to see if they are interested?

These guys were all recruited by multiple teams. They know who to contact and how to contact them, if they want to transfer at all. NCAA rules prohibit coaches from other schools from directly contacting kids enrolled at Penn State. I wonder if the NCAA will be punishing the schools that have and will break that rule.

dougdirt
07-27-2012, 09:42 PM
These guys were all recruited by multiple teams. They know who to contact and how to contact them, if they want to transfer at all. NCAA rules prohibit coaches from other schools from directly contacting kids enrolled at Penn State. I wonder if the NCAA will be punishing the schools that have and will break that rule.

Pretty sure that coaches are allowed to contact the Penn State guys.

NJReds
07-27-2012, 10:00 PM
Pretty sure that coaches are allowed to contact the Penn State guys.

Here's the actual rule according to a NY Times article ... they can contact them, with permission ... until classes start:


The N.C.A.A. has stipulated that other programs must notify Penn State of their interest in a player, and that a player must request permission to seek a transfer. If those conditions have been met, teams may travel anywhere to visit a player, or call the players at any time — both of which would normally be against N.C.A.A. rules — until Penn State’s first day of classes on Aug. 27.

dougdirt
07-28-2012, 12:45 AM
Well then in that case, they should be investigating the coaches/teams who violated the rules.

jojo
07-28-2012, 07:38 AM
Here's the actual rule according to a NY Times article ... they can contact them, with permission ... until classes start:

To comply with the terms that the NCAA established for PSU football players, all a program has to do it tell PSU they are interested in a player. Permission to interact with that player is not required from either PSU or the player.

KoryMac5
07-28-2012, 11:47 AM
I think they should allow the PSU players to recommit to the University. Once the student athlete does that than they are off the board as far as transferring goes. This may cut down on harrassment claims.

KoryMac5
07-28-2012, 11:51 AM
Grumblings coming from how the Freeh report was used.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/college-football-rapidreports/19675089/penn-state-sanctions-questioned-by-member-of-freeh-report

I did not have an issue with using the report by the NCAA, however I did have an issue with this being the only evidence the NCAA used to sanction PSU. Basically PSU ended up paying 6.5 million to invesitigate itself and have the NCAA impose sanctions. I think the NCAA should always have it's investigative body follow up with any claim, as they may have uncovered more in this mess or less.

KoryMac5
07-28-2012, 02:50 PM
Rumor has it fomer AD Tim Curley has been moved into hospice care. Curley has been battling lung cancer for some time now. Curley is the person who wrote the infamous email in which he changes his mind after talking it over with Joe.

I was looking forward to hearing his version of events, we now may never know with 100% accuracy what really went down.

Caveat Emperor
07-28-2012, 05:47 PM
Grumblings coming from how the Freeh report was used.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/college-football-rapidreports/19675089/penn-state-sanctions-questioned-by-member-of-freeh-report

I did not have an issue with using the report by the NCAA, however I did have an issue with this being the only evidence the NCAA used to sanction PSU. Basically PSU ended up paying 6.5 million to invesitigate itself and have the NCAA impose sanctions. I think the NCAA should always have it's investigative body follow up with any claim, as they may have uncovered more in this mess or less.

Considering how lightly Penn State got off, they should feel fortunate that the NCAA didn't launch an investigation, which might have dragged this whole process out an additional year, before levying sanctions.

KoryMac5
07-28-2012, 09:19 PM
Considering how lightly Penn State got off, they should feel fortunate that the NCAA didn't launch an investigation, which might have dragged this whole process out an additional year, before levying sanctions.

Compared to a 4 yr death penalty, indeed. But we will never know what the NCAA invesitigation would have found out good, or bad because Penn State was not given due process by the NCAA. I don't think the NCAA should get used to the practice of not fully investigating issues that they impose sanctions on.

KoryMac5
07-29-2012, 05:55 PM
Rumor has it fomer AD Tim Curley has been moved into hospice care. Curley has been battling lung cancer for some time now. Curley is the person who wrote the infamous email in which he changes his mind after talking it over with Joe.

I was looking forward to hearing his version of events, we now may never know with 100% accuracy what really went down.

According to sources inside the program Curley is still under going treatment for cancer and is not in hospice.

dougdirt
08-01-2012, 03:31 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8222521/jerry-sandusky-upset-penn-state-nittany-lions-sanctions

Jerry Sandusky is upset over the sanctions against Penn State.

Attorney Joe Amendola told The Associated Press in a phone interview that Sandusky told him that even if people believe he is guilty of the crimes for which he was convicted in June, it would be "ridiculous" to think Penn State administrators engaged in a cover-up.

Yachtzee
08-01-2012, 04:59 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8222521/jerry-sandusky-upset-penn-state-nittany-lions-sanctions

Jerry Sandusky is upset over the sanctions against Penn State.

Attorney Joe Amendola told The Associated Press in a phone interview that Sandusky told him that even if people believe he is guilty of the crimes for which he was convicted in June, it would be "ridiculous" to think Penn State administrators engaged in a cover-up.

Jerry needs to shut up.

WMR
08-01-2012, 07:24 PM
He wants to be removed from solitary/protective custody... PLEASE give him what he wants.

savafan
08-15-2012, 04:28 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/13/jerry-sandusky-booster-sex-abuse-private-plane_n_1772564.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular


A witness interviewed by federal authorities claims convicted child molester Jerry Sandusky and a Penn State booster sexually assaulted boys on a private plane, according to an exclusive RadarOnline report.

marcshoe
08-15-2012, 06:15 PM
Incredibly depressing in a heartsick sort of way, if that makes sense. I've always been a sports fan, but over the years I've seen so many consequences of our global obsession. This is the worst, and it just keeps getting more so. When did we surrender our moral center? Did we ever really have one?

Chip R
08-16-2012, 10:09 AM
Incredibly depressing in a heartsick sort of way, if that makes sense. I've always been a sports fan, but over the years I've seen so many consequences of our global obsession. This is the worst, and it just keeps getting more so. When did we surrender our moral center? Did we ever really have one?

If you think that this only happens in sports, you are sadly mistaken.

This isn't a problem where sports - and the money that comes from them - was so overpowering that the powers that be look the other way when child abuse was going on under their noses.

This is an institutional problem where the money and prestige was so overpowering that the powers that be looked the other way when child abuse was going on under their noses. A prime example is the Catholic Church. That's been going on for much, much longer than the Sandusky/Penn State situation. The Boy Scouts too and God knows how many other institutions.

Yachtzee
08-17-2012, 08:25 PM
Read an article about Penn State losing their accreditation over this. Doubt it happens, but that would destroy the University. It is being considered though.

Matt700wlw
08-18-2012, 01:10 AM
Jerry Sandusky is supposedly working on writing a book while in prison. It will be his second book.

The first book (I'm not kidding) is called "Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story"

Sea Ray
08-18-2012, 09:15 AM
Read an article about Penn State losing their accreditation over this. Doubt it happens, but that would destroy the University. It is being considered though.

That'd be nuts. Why blame the chemistry dept or the humanities over this? A student that studies and earns his degree there still deserves a valid diploma and the benefits of it coming from an accredited school

Slyder
08-18-2012, 10:18 AM
Jerry Sandusky is supposedly working on writing a book while in prison. It will be his second book.

The first book (I'm not kidding) is called "Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story"

Every penny of the proceeds should go to sexual abuse groups or the victims. He should never see 1 red cent from it.

marcshoe
08-18-2012, 01:50 PM
Every penny of the proceeds should go to sexual abuse groups or the victims. He should never see 1 red cent from it.

He can't, if I understand the law correctly. I'll have to look it up, but I think it's the "Son of Sam" law.

dougdirt
08-18-2012, 01:58 PM
That'd be nuts. Why blame the chemistry dept or the humanities over this? A student that studies and earns his degree there still deserves a valid diploma and the benefits of it coming from an accredited school

Because the people in charge of the entire University failed to report multiple sexual assault incidents and as part of the law, losing your accreditation is among the penalties that can be used as punishment for that. They make the penalties tough so that you don't even think about not reporting it.

Sea Ray
08-19-2012, 10:56 PM
Because the people in charge of the entire University failed to report multiple sexual assault incidents and as part of the law, losing your accreditation is among the penalties that can be used as punishment for that. They make the penalties tough so that you don't even think about not reporting it.

I have no idea if it "can be done", I just hope that's not what happens. PSU has suffered enough

Chip R
08-22-2012, 10:27 AM
Looks like Paterno and Sandusky weren't really very friendly as a lot of people assumed.

http://gma.yahoo.com/joe-paterno-despised-sandusky-long-sex-scandal-book-191142568--abc-news-topstories.html

Sea Ray
08-22-2012, 10:58 AM
Looks like Paterno and Sandusky weren't really very friendly as a lot of people assumed.

http://gma.yahoo.com/joe-paterno-despised-sandusky-long-sex-scandal-book-191142568--abc-news-topstories.html

That book confirms my suspicions. A lot of this was due to Paterno's age. He didn't know that male on male rape can happen and he wasn't diligent in these later years...


Many of the people who had come to admire Joe Paterno believed that, no matter his own legal role, he should have made sure the incident was reported to the police. 'But, to be honest, that's just not how Joe was in the last years,' said one of the people in his inner circle. 'He was not vigilant like he used to be. I think a younger Joe would've said to Tim after a few days, "Hey what's going on with that Sandusky thing? You guys get to the bottom of that? Let's make sure that's taken care of." But he didn't understand it. And he just wasn't as involved as he used to be,'" the book reads.

Posnanski notes that after Paterno's family convinced him to read the grand jury presentment outlining the charges against Sandusky and two other Penn State officials, the 85-year-old coach asked his son, Scott Paterno, "What is sodomy, anyway?"

It doesn't excuse it but it does explain how this could happen. As Paterno later admitted, "I wish I had done more", by that I'm sure he means reporting it to police. If he'd made that one phone call, this whole thing would have turned out differently for PSU.

dougdirt
08-22-2012, 11:40 AM
Right now, maybe. But when it was originally reported to him about the shower incident?

If Paterno were that 'gone' for 10 years, he should have been let go of his duties a long time ago.

Sea Ray
08-22-2012, 11:45 AM
Right now, maybe. But when it was originally reported to him about the shower incident?

If Paterno were that 'gone' for 10 years, he should have been let go of his duties a long time ago.

I don't think "sodomy" was ever a part of his vocabulary. His generation never talked about such stuff

Chip R
08-22-2012, 11:52 AM
I don't think "sodomy" was ever a part of his vocabulary. His generation never talked about such stuff

Of course they did. They just called it something else.

dougdirt
08-22-2012, 12:38 PM
I don't think "sodomy" was ever a part of his vocabulary. His generation never talked about such stuff

Sodomy was never mentioned by McQueary 10 years ago to Paterno.

Sea Ray
08-22-2012, 12:50 PM
Sodomy was never mentioned by McQueary 10 years ago to Paterno.

I don't think we can know exactly what was said since we weren't there but I agree that Paterno did not come out of that conversation thinking that a rape of a kid occured

Sea Ray
08-22-2012, 12:51 PM
Of course they did. They just called it something else.

I disagree. In talking to other people Paterno's age, I don't get the impression that anal rape was discussed in any form

Chip R
08-22-2012, 01:00 PM
I disagree. In talking to other people Paterno's age, I don't get the impression that anal rape was discussed in any form

Joe was in a locker room for the majority of his life. You don't think he ever heard any synonyms for the word sodomy? Joe was also a practicing Catholic. You don't think he ever heard people talking about what priests did to boys?

dougdirt
08-22-2012, 03:37 PM
Joe was in a locker room for the majority of his life. You don't think he ever heard any synonyms for the word sodomy? Joe was also a practicing Catholic. You don't think he ever heard people talking about what priests did to boys?

Or even stories of it from the bible?

westofyou
08-22-2012, 04:57 PM
Of course they did. They just called it something else.

Buggering

cincrazy
08-23-2012, 06:14 PM
Joe was in a locker room for the majority of his life. You don't think he ever heard any synonyms for the word sodomy? Joe was also a practicing Catholic. You don't think he ever heard people talking about what priests did to boys?

I'm not Catholic, but I'm guessing that topic of conversation isn't very prevalent in Catholic churches.

blumj
08-23-2012, 07:04 PM
So, what did all the old Catholics think that scandal was about?

Chip R
08-23-2012, 07:29 PM
I'm not Catholic, but I'm guessing that topic of conversation isn't very prevalent in Catholic churches.

More than likely not but I'm not Catholic either and I knew about that scandal.

bucksfan2
08-24-2012, 09:32 AM
I'm not Catholic, but I'm guessing that topic of conversation isn't very prevalent in Catholic churches.

Kinda like a black eye.

My parents generation was the generation that really experienced the abuse by the priests. There are stories about priest taking high school aged kids to an athletic club to swim and would end up showering after they were done. In hindsight it seemed odd but at the time they said no one really raised an eye. This was also the time that after gym class everyone would shower nowadays that would be taboo.

There were priests you knew were guilty, there were priests you suspected may be guilty, and there were also priests who were accused in a witch hunt only to be cleared later. At the end of the day the church did their best to sweep everything under the rug. In Cincinnati I thought they should have hammered the Bishop who was in charge. Now it isn't talked about much in church circles.

traderumor
08-25-2012, 03:48 PM
I think the idea of male anal sex is common knowledge. Playing dumb, it isn't just for children anymore.

Yachtzee
08-25-2012, 05:02 PM
I disagree. In talking to other people Paterno's age, I don't get the impression that anal rape was discussed in any form

My grandpa was born in Cincinnati and lived most of his adult life in Troy when he passed away in his 80s in 2001. Catholic born and raised. He could tell you what sodomy was. In fact I think it was more commonly used in the past because it was the biblical term. Paterno's family isn't doing him any favors by trying to make him look like some ignorant old-timer. It runs counter to what others have said about the control and influence he exerted in State College. They're more likely to tick off the victims and their families and increase the chances that the victims will go after Patereno's estate as a co-defendant in any civil suits against Penn State.

Sea Ray
09-03-2012, 12:25 AM
Did anyone notice that Penn State had a moment of silence for the child abuse victims before their game on Saturday? What a crazy thing to do. Who thought that one up? The smartest thing PSu can do now is to quit reminding everyone of what happened. Move on and play football

camisadelgolf
09-03-2012, 02:20 AM
Did anyone notice that Penn State had a moment of silence for the child abuse victims before their game on Saturday? What a crazy thing to do. Who thought that one up? The smartest thing PSu can do now is to quit reminding everyone of what happened. Move on and play football
It may not have been "smart" to show compassion, but I'll give them credit for trying.

nmculbreth
09-03-2012, 02:54 AM
Did anyone notice that Penn State had a moment of silence for the child abuse victims before their game on Saturday? What a crazy thing to do. Who thought that one up? The smartest thing PSu can do now is to quit reminding everyone of what happened. Move on and play football

It's fairly ironic that their form of tribute is the same as the way they chose to deal with the allegations of abuse...

SunDeck
09-03-2012, 10:32 AM
If they had done nothing, editorials would have been written about it. Damned if they do, damned if they don't, which is really exactly what they deserve.

Razor Shines
09-03-2012, 11:56 AM
If they had done nothing, editorials would have been written about it. Damned if they do, damned if they don't, which is really exactly what they deserve.

yep

Moosie52
09-03-2012, 10:31 PM
Was Jerry Sandusky Catholic? Is that where he learned this behavior?

dougdirt
09-03-2012, 10:34 PM
Was Jerry Sandusky Catholic? Is that where he learned this behavior?

I know this is meant to be a joke.... but no.

SunDeck
09-04-2012, 09:38 AM
Was Jerry Sandusky Catholic? Is that where he learned this behavior?

Not cool or funny at all.

Sea Ray
09-04-2012, 10:01 AM
If they had done nothing, editorials would have been written about it. Damned if they do, damned if they don't, which is really exactly what they deserve.

They're getting bad press anyway. They can't make their decisions based on the press.

blumj
09-04-2012, 12:41 PM
They're getting bad press anyway. They can't make their decisions based on the press.
Then they should make their decisions based on what they believe is the right thing to do, right? Which could very well be what they did by having a moment of silence for the victims, and what you called a crazy thing to do based on what the reaction to it would be.

savafan
09-21-2012, 09:54 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/self-described-child-prostitute-connects-jerry-sandusky-poly-prep-sex-abuse-scandal-coach-phil-foglietta-article-1.1163303


A Philadelphia man who claims to have been paid to have sex with former Poly Prep football coach Phil Foglietta in 1979 as part of an alleged pedophile ring that included Jerry Sandusky sent an email to several Poly Prep officials on Monday - including current headmaster David Harman - detailing the explosive allegation.

Greg Bucceroni, 48, also sent the email to Kevin Mulhearn, the Orangeburg, N.Y., attorney who represents 12 men who sued the school, alleging Poly Prep officials knew that Foglietta was a sexual predator but covered it up for decades in order to protect the elite institution's reputation and fund-raising efforts.

Sea Ray
01-02-2013, 03:55 PM
Now the state of Pennsylvania is suing the NCAA asking that all sanctions be dropped based on the idea that they were excessive and that it was not due to a violation of NCAA rules hence they did not have the authority to levy sanctions against them. In other words the violation was a criminal matter not a matter of NCAA rules violations.

I agree with Gov Corbett and wish him luck in this suit:


Corbett said the penalties – a $60 million fine, a four-year ban on bowl games, football scholarship reductions, and the stripping of 14 seasons of football victories under late head coach Joe Paterno – were unfair to the university, its students, and Pennsylvania citizens because the Sandusky criminal matter already is being handled in courts.

The NCAA "piled on ... (punishing) the citizens of Pennsylvania, who had nothing to do with these crimes," Corbett said.

"These sanctions are an attack on the past, present and future students of Penn State, the citizens of our commonwealth and our economy. As governor of this commonwealth, I cannot and will not stand by and let it happen without a fight," Corbett said.

He said the NCAA's actions were unlawful and overreaching, and that it essentially forced Penn State to accept the sanctions under the threat that if the school didn't accept them, the NCAA would impose on the football program a "death penalty" – a suspension from play of a year or more.

The NCAA levied the penalties last July.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/02/pennsylvania-to-sue-ncaa-over-penn-state-sanctions/

LoganBuck
01-02-2013, 04:22 PM
Now the state of Pennsylvania is suing the NCAA asking that all sanctions be dropped based on the idea that they were excessive and that it was not due to a violation of NCAA rules hence they did not have the authority to levy sanctions against them. In other words the violation was a criminal matter not a matter of NCAA rules violations.

I agree with Gov Corbett and wish him luck in this suit:



http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/02/pennsylvania-to-sue-ncaa-over-penn-state-sanctions/

I think what Penn State did at all levels of the football program, from the janitors to the University President was the epitome of evil. Quite frankly I wish the program had seen the death penalty. The Governor should be ashamed.

These crimes were covered up to protect the football program. These crimes were covered up for the financial gain of the university through the football program. Boys were raped, and this was kept quiet to keep the football program strong. Someone has to pay, and I am glad that the NCAA brought the thunder. This isn't tattoos for jerseys, extra benefits, or strippers for recruits, this is child rape in the locker room we are talking about. NEVER FORGET THAT!

paintmered
01-02-2013, 05:37 PM
Yes, how dare they have to suffer through 8-4 seasons.

The governor is showing his true colors and his suit reinforces the premise that the culture surrounding the program hasn't changed one bit. If the judge has any sense, he'll tack on an additional year or two. Maybe then it will sink in.

WMR
01-02-2013, 06:59 PM
Complete lack of institutional control for decades, NCAA was within their rights.

Many Penn St. fans, and clearly the Governor, still don't get it... Pretty sad.

SunDeck
01-02-2013, 07:15 PM
Boys were raped, Penn State officials knew it all the way up to the highest levels, they did nothing to stop it from happening. I would be ashamed if my governor filed a suit in the face of those facts.

cumberlandreds
01-03-2013, 09:24 AM
I think what Penn State did at all levels of the football program, from the janitors to the University President was the epitome of evil. Quite frankly I wish the program had seen the death penalty. The Governor should be ashamed.

These crimes were covered up to protect the football program. These crimes were covered up for the financial gain of the university through the football program. Boys were raped, and this was kept quiet to keep the football program strong. Someone has to pay, and I am glad that the NCAA brought the thunder. This isn't tattoos for jerseys, extra benefits, or strippers for recruits, this is child rape in the locker room we are talking about. NEVER FORGET THAT!

Totally agree with you. The state of Pennsylvania needs to just shut up. What happened was horrific. It continued to happen over and over again because Penn State didn't want their image tarnished and they thought they could sweep under a rug forever. IMO their program should have been shutdown for a minimum of two years. Penn State should have done that themselves,not the NCAA. I know if I was a citizen of Pennsylvania I would be awfully angry that my tax dollars are going towards a lawsuit that in effect is trying to defend a pedophile of the worst kind.

Sea Ray
01-03-2013, 09:29 AM
Let's keep an open mind here and see what the Paterno family has to say



The independent review and analysis of the Freeh Report by the family of former Penn State coach Joe Paterno is nearing completion and should be released in the near future, according to a statement released Wednesday morning.

The Paterno family engaged a team of experts to conduct the independent review. It will address all the issues of the past year at that time, the statement said.

Paterno, the former football coach who died Jan. 22 because of complications from lung cancer treatment, was found, along with three other former school officials, to conceal allegations of sexual abuse against Jerry Sandusky, according to the Freeh Report.


The Paterno family issued the statement just as Gov. Tom Corbett announced he would file an antitrust lawsuit against the NCAA.

"We have not yet had an opportunity to review the lawsuit filed by Governor Corbett today," the statement reads, in part. "We cannot comment on the specifics of the litigation. What we do know, however, is that this matter is far from closed. The fact that Governor Corbett now realizes, as do many others, that there was an inexcusable rush to judgment is encouraging.

"Joe Paterno's only guidance to us was to seek the truth."


http://www.statecollege.com/news/local-news/paterno-family-review-of-freeh-report-nearing-completion-1213026/

Hoosier Red
01-03-2013, 11:08 AM
I'm not sure anyone has earned less of a reason for us to listen than the Paterno family.

I think it's important to keep the emotional aspect of the terrible crimes aside while evaluating the legal side.

That said, I don't see where the commonwealth has any real standing here. The university's duly elected representatives collectively looked at the case before them, looked at the PR fallout they'd experience with fighting further punishments, and made the decision to accept the offer from the NCAA.

Unless the governor is alleging that Penn State university didn't have the right to agree to that deal, or that the NCAA didn't have the right to agree to it's side, it doesn't really matter whether anyone outside of the parties agreeing to the punishment felt that it was too harsh or not harsh enough.

traderumor
01-03-2013, 01:58 PM
Now the state of Pennsylvania is suing the NCAA asking that all sanctions be dropped based on the idea that they were excessive and that it was not due to a violation of NCAA rules hence they did not have the authority to levy sanctions against them. In other words the violation was a criminal matter not a matter of NCAA rules violations.

I agree with Gov Corbett and wish him luck in this suit:



http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/02/pennsylvania-to-sue-ncaa-over-penn-state-sanctions/I'm no legal expert, but I do have a pretty good handle on ethics. On ethical principal, this is repugnant. If the NCAA doesn't have any authority here, then I guess they don't have any authority over any athletic program in the country. Plus, I'm guessing that the NCAA did their homework before levying the penalties.

LoganBuck
01-03-2013, 03:38 PM
What the NCAA and all other reasonable human beings think.


We are disappointed by the Governor's action today. Not only does this forthcoming lawsuit appear to be without merit, it is an affront to all of the victims in this tragedy -- lives that were destroyed by the criminal actions of Jerry Sandusky. While the innocence that was stolen can never be restored, Penn State has accepted the consequences for its role and the role of its employees and is moving forward. Today's announcement by the Governor is a setback to the University's efforts.

The best insider report on how the agreement came to being
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8228641/inside-secret-negotiations-brought-penn-state-football-brink-extinction

Why it won't work.
http://espn.go.com/colleges/psu/story/_/id/8807057/pennsylvania-governor-lawsuit-ncaa-penn-state-sanctions-little-chance-succeeding

This is an effort by a Republican governor to hold onto power, with his base. My guess is that child rape doesn't play to well with people who don't obsess over Penn State football.

Reds Freak
01-03-2013, 03:44 PM
How in the world are Penn State students and Pennsylvania citizens harmed by the NCAA sanctions? Because the football team can't go to the Outback Bowl the next three years, the state suffers? The school is probably saving money not going to bowl games for awhile...

In other news, I don't think the current PSU coach will be around quite as long as his predecessor. Rumor has it the Nittany Lions will be looking for another head coach..

KoryMac5
01-03-2013, 04:24 PM
Purely a political move by the Governor to score points with his base and donors. With a new Attorney General coming on board with the state and vowing to investigate the handling of the Sandusky case the Governor is looking to shore up support as I believe he is going to be hammered for only assigning one state trooper to this case for a period of yrs.

It's sad that these guys (Franco Harris, Certain Members of the Board of Trustees, Paterno Family and Gov. Corbett) keep shooting their mouths off, opening up the scab, not allowing the University to move forward. Every time they talk the State and the University take 2 steps back.

Danny Serafini
01-03-2013, 05:16 PM
Looks like we can count the star witness for the prosecution among those who think the NCAA went overboard:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--victim-no--4-in-jerry-sandusky-trial-supports-tom-corbett-s-lawsuit-against-ncaa-203458865.html

Wonderful Monds
01-03-2013, 05:35 PM
What the NCAA and all other reasonable human beings think.



The best insider report on how the agreement came to being
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8228641/inside-secret-negotiations-brought-penn-state-football-brink-extinction

Why it won't work.
http://espn.go.com/colleges/psu/story/_/id/8807057/pennsylvania-governor-lawsuit-ncaa-penn-state-sanctions-little-chance-succeeding

This is an effort by a Republican governor to hold onto power, with his base. My guess is that child rape doesn't play to well with people who don't obsess over Penn State football.

I'm a pretty reasonable human being and I think your appeals to emotion and declarations of "here's what people who don't support child rape think" are extremely misguided at best.

On the flip side, here's a good summary of why the NCAA is full of BS and why the state should win their case:
http://deadspin.com/5972596/this-isnt-about-sandusky-everything-you-need-to-know-about-pennsylvanias-lawsuit-against-the-ncaa-and-why-you-should-support-it

Tom Servo
01-03-2013, 05:49 PM
I'm a pretty reasonable human being and I think your appeals to emotion and declarations of "here's what people who don't support child rape think" are extremely misguided at best.

On the flip side, here's a good summary of why the NCAA is full of BS and why the state should win their case:
http://deadspin.com/5972596/this-isnt-about-sandusky-everything-you-need-to-know-about-pennsylvanias-lawsuit-against-the-ncaa-and-why-you-should-support-it
I prefer the comments section tearing the article down.


Far as I'm concerned, the sanctions were handed down. Deal with it. That's all that those who were raped by Sandusky can do now, it's what Penn State and Pennsylvania should do as well.

Wonderful Monds
01-03-2013, 08:58 PM
I prefer the comments section tearing the article down.


Far as I'm concerned, the sanctions were handed down. Deal with it. That's all that those who were raped by Sandusky can do now, it's what Penn State and Pennsylvania should do as well.

I prefer a better and more rational reason for a kicking a regional economy in the junk than "well that's just what you get, deal with it."

BS. It's not local business fault or the fault of everyone else at PS not associated with football that this happen. Screw the NCAA. We should just bring the hammer down on everyone else, why, because *somebody* has to get egregiously punished?

LoganBuck
01-03-2013, 11:34 PM
I prefer a better and more rational reason for a kicking a regional economy in the junk than "well that's just what you get, deal with it."

BS. It's not local business fault or the fault of everyone else at PS not associated with football that this happen. Screw the NCAA. We should just bring the hammer down on everyone else, why, because *somebody* has to get egregiously punished?

CHILD RAPE ACTIVELY COVERED UP FOR OVER A DECADE

There really isn't much argument here that doesn't appeal to the emotion of abject horror.

15fan
01-03-2013, 11:51 PM
Looks like we can count the star witness for the prosecution among those who think the NCAA went overboard:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--victim-no--4-in-jerry-sandusky-trial-supports-tom-corbett-s-lawsuit-against-ncaa-203458865.html

Now seems like a really great time for someone with a background in psychology to jump in & tell us about Stockholm Syndrome.

Wonderful Monds
01-04-2013, 02:34 AM
CHILD RAPE ACTIVELY COVERED UP FOR OVER A DECADE

There really isn't much argument here that doesn't appeal to the emotion of abject horror.

And by your course of action, we would punish anyone ever associated with Penn State (even the janitor, as you said.)

Well, objectively so, it's not the janitor's fault or the community's fault, so why again are we punishing them? Because there's no actual rational reason to do so than to arbitrarily placate some sense of guilt that such a course of action would serve no justice to regardless.

Wonderful Monds
01-04-2013, 02:36 AM
And yes, child rape covered up for over a decade is one of the worst things humanity could imagine (obviously).

Those responsible for it are also currently locked up thanks to the criminal justice system. No need to let the NCAA further play judge, jury and executioner.

LoganBuck
01-04-2013, 08:37 AM
But the problem is that to protect the football team, which is a member participant of the NCAA, the university at all levels covered up a HORRIFIC series of crimes. This was done for profit.

How again is what the NCAA did "kicking a regional economy in the junk", they get to have football, and instead of going 8-4 like usual, they go 6-6 or 5-7. The depravity.

traderumor
01-04-2013, 11:46 AM
I'm sensing there is a disconnect that organizations suffer consequences for crimes committed under the authority of that organization. Just like if a social worker commits some horrific crime that was covered up by the management of my organization would result in severe penalties to the organization, in addition to the individuals who were actually responsible. For example, innocent people could lose their jobs because funding is pulled.

That's the way it is with organizations--punishment can be corporate, both direct and indirect. Apparently that is a novel concept to many.

Yachtzee
01-05-2013, 01:00 PM
I prefer a better and more rational reason for a kicking a regional economy in the junk than "well that's just what you get, deal with it."

BS. It's not local business fault or the fault of everyone else at PS not associated with football that this happen. Screw the NCAA. We should just bring the hammer down on everyone else, why, because *somebody* has to get egregiously punished?

By that logic, no organization that whose leadership engages in wrongdoing can ever be sanctioned because they provide an economic benefit to the community. Can't go after Enron, they're too important to innocent business owners in the community.

Beyond the obvious standing and waiver issues, I would argue that, regardless of the NCAA's monopoly status, it is a voluntary organization for which membership is not required for universities to accomplish their primary goals of education and research. Collegiate athletics is not essential to the purpose of a university. Penn State joined the NCAA to provide governance over intercollegiate athletics and therefore subjected itself to the possibility of facing sanctions.
Personally, I think Penn State and the Commonwealth should be happy the football program didn't get handed the death penalty. They could have avoided those sanctions on their own by self-imposing sanctions. There are plenty of schools that have suspended their own sports teams for hazing incidents. A two year self-supension would have probably been appropriate.

One thought that crossed my mind is that it could be intended as a back-door attempt at clearing Joe Paterno's name by using a federal court as a forum to attack the Freeh report. But I think most jurists would probably throw it out on the standing and waiver issues.

dougdirt
01-05-2013, 01:37 PM
One thought that crossed my mind is that it could be intended as a back-door attempt at clearing Joe Paterno's name by using a federal court as a forum to attack the Freeh report. But I think most jurists would probably throw it out on the standing and waiver issues.

In that state? Maybe not.

Yachtzee
01-05-2013, 06:31 PM
In that state? Maybe not.

If it's in federal court, the judges are life appointments and if the judge has any connection to Penn State or the State of Pennsylvania, the NCAA is likely to request a recusal if the judge doesn't recuse him or herself.

Chip R
01-16-2015, 04:55 PM
JoePa's going to get his wins back.

http://www.csnchicago.com/big-ten/ncaa-restores-penn-states-vacated-wins-joe-paterno-era?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

Razor Shines
01-16-2015, 11:25 PM
JoePa's going to get his wins back.

http://www.csnchicago.com/big-ten/ncaa-restores-penn-states-vacated-wins-joe-paterno-era?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

So temporarily vacated wins?

This is not surprising I guess. At the time of the announcement of the Bowl ban, scholarship reduction and vacated wins this was big news and everyone got to take congratulations for being so tough on Penn St. Then the bowl ban and scholarship reduction are removed and now the wins are reinstated when no one is really paying attention. So whatever.

dougdirt
01-16-2015, 11:54 PM
Disgusting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSBVO6rU57A

LoganBuck
01-17-2015, 10:51 AM
Penn State doesn't get it, and they hired a new football coach, who looked the other way at rape. They should have gotten the death penalty.

dabvu2498
01-17-2015, 11:08 AM
Actually, and trust me it's painful to defend Jimmy Franks, but by all accounts, Franklin handled the situation at VU pretty well, after the fact.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/nashville-prosecutor-says-james-franklin-s-contact-with-alleged-rape-victim-was--a-nice-thing-to-do-144707271.html

He recruited the kids to school there. That's probably the worst of his sins in this case.

Dom Heffner
01-17-2015, 11:42 AM
Football, money, records, wins....

All things more important than child rape.

Will anyone in this world ever pay a price for anything they do? Ever?

Slyder
01-17-2015, 12:00 PM
Football, money, records, wins....

All things more important than child rape.

Will anyone in this world ever pay a price for anything they do? Ever?

Are Sandusky and others from the office not sitting in jail?

dabvu2498
01-17-2015, 12:07 PM
Are Sandusky and others from the office not sitting in jail?

So far, just Sandusky. Three others still
Awaiting trial.

LoganBuck
01-17-2015, 12:48 PM
From the yahoo blog dabvu justt posted


The Tennessean reported that the court filing from Vandenburg’s attorneys claimed that Franklin had a “private meeting” with the alleged victim, but does not say whether the meeting was before or after the incident.

“Coach Franklin called her in for a private meeting and told her he wanted her to get 15 pretty girls together and form a team to assist with the recruiting even though he knew it was against the rules. He added that all the other colleges did it,” the filing read.

dabvu2498
01-17-2015, 01:00 PM
From the yahoo blog dabvu justt posted

You'll notice who's alleging that... The alleged rapist's defense team. You think the alleged rapist has intimate knowledge of conversations his alleged victim had after the incident??? It's called the crap defense. When you don't have crap to defend yourself with, you try to crap all over everyone else involved in the situation.

The victim, herself, has never said a thing about any meetings or conversations with Franklin. The Nashville DA's office -- no fan of Vanderbilt University -- said Franklin did nothing wrong.

LoganBuck
01-17-2015, 01:06 PM
At the very least Penn State hired a coach with at least a shady incident in the past on this issue. The culture that permitted the horror to happen, still seems to be thriving from an outsiders perspective.

RedsBaron
01-17-2015, 02:30 PM
JoePa's going to get his wins back.

http://www.csnchicago.com/big-ten/ncaa-restores-penn-states-vacated-wins-joe-paterno-era?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

I always thought the retroactively vacating of wins was stupid. I thought it was stupid to strip USC of its 2004 NCAA football championship years after the event. I think it would be stupid to strip Barry Bonds of his HR records because of his alleged PEDs use or to strip the Red Sox of their 2004 World Championship because of the alleged PEDs use of Manny Ramirez. I thought it was stupid to strip Paterno of coaching wins years later. None of this is to defend anything USC, Bonds, Ramirez or Paterno did or failed to do. Remember their sins, punish their sins, but to years after events attempt to erase history is dumb and reminds me of the old Soviet habit of photoshopping out of photographs cronies of Stalin who fell out of favor.

villain612
01-17-2015, 02:39 PM
I supported the bowl sanctions, the reduction of scholarships, the fines, and obviously the criminal prosecution of everyone who committed wrongdoing - because those all had real world consequences.

The vacating of wins just seemed to be pointless though.

Razor Shines
01-17-2015, 03:02 PM
I supported the bowl sanctions, the reduction of scholarships, the fines, and obviously the criminal prosecution of everyone who committed wrongdoing - because those all had real world consequences.

The vacating of wins just seemed to be pointless though.

Yeah, I get that and I would probably agree with it but once they decided to vacate them I do have a problem with reinstating them. I think anything that takes any of the negativity away from JoePa's legacy is a bad thing. If they had never vacated his wins, fine, but giving them back might make it seem like "oh, maybe he wasn't such a bad guy after all" when no, he was a dirt bag.

nmculbreth
01-17-2015, 04:29 PM
JoePa gets his wins but his legacy as an enabler of a child-rapist remains intact.

Razor Shines
01-17-2015, 04:51 PM
JoePa gets his wins but his legacy as an enabler of a child-rapist remains intact.

For us, for now. What about someone in the not too distant future just looking at the timeline? "Wins vacated. JoePa and family object, claim he had no knowledge. Wins reinstated."

nmculbreth
01-17-2015, 05:31 PM
For us, for now. What about someone in the not too distant future just looking at the timeline? "Wins vacated. JoePa and family object, claim he had no knowledge. Wins reinstated."

No amount of time will wash away the stink of what he did, or more accurately didn't do.

RedsManRick
01-17-2015, 10:52 PM
I gotta say, I've never understood the idea of vacating wins for something that happened off the field and had no bearing on game outcomes. What Sandusky did was horrible. JoePa was, at best, negligent about it. And don't get me started about the brass at Penn State. But pretending like football games had different outcomes doesn't help anybody.

dougdirt
01-17-2015, 11:00 PM
I gotta say, I've never understood the idea of vacating wins for something that happened off the field and had no bearing on game outcomes. What Sandusky did was horrible. JoePa was, at best, negligent about it. And don't get me started about the brass at Penn State. But pretending like football games had different outcomes doesn't help anybody.

Would the outcome have been different had JoePa been out of a job for those games? I think that's kind of the point they try to make when they vacate wins for things.

jojo
01-18-2015, 12:35 AM
Vacating wins was too harsh? The whole university should've been razed to the ground, the earth salted and then Happy Valley converted to a nuclear waste storage facility.

Dom Heffner
01-18-2015, 01:45 AM
Would the outcome have been different had JoePa been out of a job for those games? I think that's kind of the point they try to make when they vacate wins for things.

And doesn't it send a message to other schools that says hey, all you're doing is for naught if we catch you covering this up?

KronoRed
01-18-2015, 03:37 AM
Forfeits would be better then vacating games.

If they want to give him the games back then how about instead of listing his name they list him as "Coach who allowed horrible crimes to go on to protect his name and football program"

RedsBaron
01-18-2015, 08:20 AM
No amount of time will wash away the stink of what he did, or more accurately didn't do.

I cannot imagine any halfway knowledgeable person giving any thought to Paterno without the Sandusky scandal being foremost in one's thoughts.

LoganBuck
01-18-2015, 09:24 AM
And doesn't it send a message to other schools that says hey, all you're doing is for naught if we catch you covering this up?

In fairness everything has been for naught, in Happy Valley since the turn of the century.

Assembly Hall
01-18-2015, 11:02 AM
I disdain what happened at Penn St. But it aint like they used ineligible players or had recruiting violations. The kids won the games on the field and did it honestly. The act/acts of the coaching staff and administration in criminal activity should in no way be the NCAA's concern. But they made it such. Strip the University of wins because an assistant coach liked young boys? Strip them of wins because of an administrative cover-up? Strip them of wins because Paterno didn't do anything? Makes no sense at all to me. All it does is punish the young men that were on the field.

KoryMac5
01-18-2015, 12:19 PM
Nobody in this situation looks good at all, not the NCAA, not the Paterno supporters, and not the State of Pennsylvania who brought the suit. I don't think anyone will forget what happened in Happy Valley and they probably shouldn't either.

RedsManRick
01-18-2015, 03:41 PM
Would the outcome have been different had JoePa been out of a job for those games? I think that's kind of the point they try to make when they vacate wins for things.

And yet you'd vote for Bonds and Clemens in the HOF if I'm not mistaken. I'm not a fan of trying to re-write history. I understand what they're trying to do; I just don't see the logic in it. I don't see it accomplishing anything. If anything, it hurts other people who don't share Paterno's culpability while detracting from the more important conversation.

But what's a little collateral damage if it makes us feel better about the whole thing? It's revenge, not justice. As Jojo's post either displays (or it would display if he were merely be sarcastic, I can't tell) is that we're really good at wanting to punish people who do harm in retrospect and not quite as sensitive to harm we might cause in the process of meting out that supposed justice.

traderumor
01-19-2015, 02:37 PM
I disdain what happened at Penn St. But it aint like they used ineligible players or had recruiting violations. The kids won the games on the field and did it honestly. The act/acts of the coaching staff and administration in criminal activity should in no way be the NCAA's concern. But they made it such. Strip the University of wins because an assistant coach liked young boys? Strip them of wins because of an administrative cover-up? Strip them of wins because Paterno didn't do anything? Makes no sense at all to me. All it does is punish the young men that were on the field.It is rare that crimes only affect the parties committing the crimes and their direct victims. There is always fallout/collateral damage to wrongdoing. A wise man said it as "a little leaven permeates the whole lump." Leaders make decisions/commit acts that affect the entire organization, good and bad. That it affects those indirectly that committed no wrongdoing is the way it works, and is a basis for punishing those that commit the acts.

For example, the German people suffered for Adolf Hitler's war crimes and crimes against humanity. That coward killed himself. Why should the people be subjected to punishment for things their leader did? With the hope that the German people would not let another like him come to power again.

Assembly Hall
01-19-2015, 02:54 PM
It is rare that crimes only affect the parties committing the crimes and their direct victims. There is always fallout/collateral damage to wrongdoing. A wise man said it as "a little leaven permeates the whole lump." Leaders make decisions/commit acts that affect the entire organization, good and bad. That it affects those indirectly that committed no wrongdoing is the way it works, and is a basis for punishing those that commit the acts.

For example, the German people suffered for Adolf Hitler's war crimes and crimes against humanity. That coward killed himself. Why should the people be subjected to punishment for things their leader did? With the hope that the German people would not let another like him come to power again.

Interesting comparison. One of which I don't think applies in this case. A lot of the German people were active in what Hitler did. But in a smaller scale, this country has laws and a justice system to handle such things as what happened at Penn St. I dunno, the players had nothing to do with it and honestly no NCAA infractions occurred. Trust me, I get sick when thinking about it. If one of my sons would have been one of those that was affected, I would have shot Sandusky and then turned my sights on Paterno.

traderumor
01-19-2015, 03:24 PM
Interesting comparison. One of which I don't think applies in this case. A lot of the German people were active in what Hitler did. But in a smaller scale, this country has laws and a justice system to handle such things as what happened at Penn St. I dunno, the players had nothing to do with it and honestly no NCAA infractions occurred. Trust me, I get sick when thinking about it. If one of my sons would have been one of those that was affected, I would have shot Sandusky and then turned my sights on Paterno.I'm not sure that it doesn't apply, since there was some clear denial going on in the PSU supporters' reaction to all this stuff. Their outrage is more about the implications on the football program than the stuff that happened under their noses. This seems to vindicate their position and say "its all about the football, stupid."

dougdirt
01-19-2015, 03:52 PM
And yet you'd vote for Bonds and Clemens in the HOF if I'm not mistaken. I'm not a fan of trying to re-write history. I understand what they're trying to do; I just don't see the logic in it. I don't see it accomplishing anything. If anything, it hurts other people who don't share Paterno's culpability while detracting from the more important conversation.

But what's a little collateral damage if it makes us feel better about the whole thing? It's revenge, not justice. As Jojo's post either displays (or it would display if he were merely be sarcastic, I can't tell) is that we're really good at wanting to punish people who do harm in retrospect and not quite as sensitive to harm we might cause in the process of meting out that supposed justice.

Child rape is not equivalent to some guys taking PED's in an era where there were so many people also taking PED's that it's not funny.

I'm fine with revenge, but this isn't it. Taking away meaningless wins isn't revenge for turning your head to what happened.

Assembly Hall
01-19-2015, 04:52 PM
I'm not sure that it doesn't apply, since there was some clear denial going on in the PSU supporters' reaction to all this stuff. Their outrage is more about the implications on the football program than the stuff that happened under their noses. This seems to vindicate their position and say "its all about the football, stupid."


I get what you are saying now tr. My apologies, I didn't think of it in that light. The German people knew what was going on, but they were living the good life. Same at Happy Valley, there were people that knew what was going on and didn't want the castle to crumble. Pitiful. But taking wins away aint or never was the solution. The NCAA should have just shut the program down and said this is not to be tolerated. Just my thoughts.

jojo
01-20-2015, 10:50 AM
And yet you'd vote for Bonds and Clemens in the HOF if I'm not mistaken. I'm not a fan of trying to re-write history. I understand what they're trying to do; I just don't see the logic in it. I don't see it accomplishing anything. If anything, it hurts other people who don't share Paterno's culpability while detracting from the more important conversation.

But what's a little collateral damage if it makes us feel better about the whole thing? It's revenge, not justice. As Jojo's post either displays (or it would display if he were merely be sarcastic, I can't tell) is that we're really good at wanting to punish people who do harm in retrospect and not quite as sensitive to harm we might cause in the process of meting out that supposed justice.

What jojo's post displays is an acknowledgement that for what Sandusky did to be allowed to happen, especially, for the duration that it went on, there had to be a culture present at PSU that is the antithesis of what is the ideal for an institution of higher learning and it was so egregious in fact that the institution, frankly, doesn't deserve to function as such going forward. I'm good with PSU possibly being allowed to operate as an online university going forward but there is no way that PSU should be trusted let alone commissioned to shape the characters and minds of young people in the flesh.

Assembly Hall
01-20-2015, 11:05 AM
What jojo's post displays is an acknowledgement that for what Sandusky did to be allowed to happen, especially, for the duration that it went on, there had to be a culture present at PSU that is the antithesis of what is the ideal for an institution of higher learning and it was so egregious in fact that the institution, frankly, doesn't deserve to function as such going forward. I'm good with PSU possibly being allowed to operate as an online university going forward but there is no way that PSU should be trusted let alone commissioned to shape the characters and minds of young people in the flesh.


There is still a big part of me that thinks the B1G should have kicked them out of the conference. Hell, it wouldn't have bothered me a bit.

Caveat Emperor
01-20-2015, 04:11 PM
Remember when people on this thread thought that Penn State football would be "devastated" by those ultra-severe NCAA sanctions?

Good times.

WE ARE PENN STATE!

Assembly Hall
01-20-2015, 08:10 PM
Well Penn State sucks in my book, no pun intended. Never liked them being in the B1G in the first place. Dang at least SMU was about money, not violating young children.

KronoRed
01-20-2015, 10:29 PM
Remember when people on this thread thought that Penn State football would be "devastated" by those ultra-severe NCAA sanctions?

Good times.

WE ARE PENN STATE!
Yep, big mistake, they should have been given the death penalty and been ejected from the big10, instead other schools now know they can cover up rape and get a slap on the hand, heck last years national champ might have already done so.

Chip R
01-20-2015, 11:23 PM
Well Penn State sucks in my book, no pun intended. Never liked them being in the B1G in the first place. Dang at least SMU was about money, not violating young children.

I tend to think that the same thing would happen at other schools. Not all, but it would take some brave people to kill the golden goose.

cumberlandreds
01-21-2015, 08:47 AM
Well Penn State sucks in my book, no pun intended. Never liked them being in the B1G in the first place. Dang at least SMU was about money, not violating young children.

Penn State's administration should have shut down the program. It shows what they are all about by basically doing nothing with all of that going on.

Assembly Hall
01-21-2015, 09:00 AM
Penn State's administration should have shut down the program. It shows what they are all about by basically doing nothing with all of that going on.

Too much at stake from their perspective I suppose. Paterno and Penn St. football ruled that university and perhaps the state in general.

cumberlandreds
01-21-2015, 09:35 AM
Too much at stake from their perspective I suppose. Paterno and Penn St. football ruled that university and perhaps the state in general.

That's the way I perceive it too. They certainly put football and its glory above the integrity of the university as a whole.

Assembly Hall
01-21-2015, 09:57 AM
That's the way I perceive it too. They certainly put football and its glory above the integrity of the university as a whole.


I wonder how much money the football program generated for the university?

villain612
01-21-2015, 10:29 AM
I read most of the Freeh Report last night. Interesting read.

http://progress.psu.edu/assets/content/REPORT_FINAL_071212.pdf

The fact that Sandusky continued to have access to Penn State facilities for years after two separate incidents involving children in showers is pretty appalling. Its pretty obvious that the chain of command didn't care about the well being of the kids involved.

cumberlandreds
01-21-2015, 11:21 AM
I wonder how much money the football program generated for the university?

A lot and that was the crux of the problem. They didn't want to jeopardize that money even though they knew terrible things were going on. That's the really appalling thing about all of this.

Sea Ray
01-21-2015, 02:03 PM
Penn State's administration should have shut down the program. It shows what they are all about by basically doing nothing with all of that going on.

With the value of hindsight we now know why they didn't. All they had to do was weather a couple harsh years and then the NCAA would ease up on them. Now the program is pretty much back to full steam ahead

villain612
01-21-2015, 03:13 PM
I disagree with people who think the program should be shut down. Penalized yes...but completely terminated?

traderumor
01-21-2015, 04:13 PM
I disagree with people who think the program should be shut down. Penalized yes...but completely terminated?Yes. They have demonstrated that it would have been best. Now, like a horror movie monster, they have remained alive after what would kill mere mortal programs and will be even more dangerous. Socialogically, there appears to be cult-like phenomenon operating here, and the NCAA is feeding the head of the monster.

Caveat Emperor
01-22-2015, 12:04 PM
I disagree with people who think the program should be shut down. Penalized yes...but completely terminated?

By not shutting it down, the lesson that has been learned is that you should always attempt to cover-up wrongodings at your university if possible and look the other way as much as possible.

Tom Servo
01-22-2015, 12:56 PM
At the very least they should have gotten the SMU Death Penalty.

villain612
01-22-2015, 02:26 PM
Yes. They have demonstrated that it would have been best. Now, like a horror movie monster, they have remained alive after what would kill mere mortal programs and will be even more dangerous. Socialogically, there appears to be cult-like phenomenon operating here, and the NCAA is feeding the head of the monster.

Should USC's football program been shutdown over the Reggie Bush scandal?

Dom Heffner
01-22-2015, 02:29 PM
Should USC's football program been shutdown over the Reggie Bush scandal?

Did Reggie Bush rape a bunch of children?

villain612
01-22-2015, 02:56 PM
Did Reggie Bush rape a bunch of children?

Did the Penn State football team rape a bunch of children?

I am trying to establish the protocol and boundary of support for shutting an entire program down.

We're talking about a criminal action here. Not NCAA infractions. It's a fair question.

Dom Heffner
01-22-2015, 03:02 PM
Did the Penn State football team rape a bunch of children?

I am trying to establish the protocol and boundary of support for shutting an entire program down.

We're talking about a criminal action here. Not NCAA infractions. It's a fair question.

The program allowed the behavior to flourish.

There are many things that are pretty sickening but child rape is the lowest thing on this earth, and to ignore it and sweep it under the rug because you want a shiny football program- that's death penalty if there ever were a case for the death penalty.

Joe Paterno and Happy Valley- I mean, that's a joke, right? Statues? Scholarships? We're going to let them continue on?

It's ickeyville to the max.

villain612
01-22-2015, 03:15 PM
The program allowed the behavior to flourish.

There are many things that are pretty sickening but child rape is the lowest thing on this earth, and to ignore it and sweep it under the rug because you want a shiny football program- that's death penalty if there ever was a case for death penalty.

Joe Paterno and Happy Valley- I mean, that's a joke, right? Statues? Scholarships? We're going to let them continue on?

It's ickeyville to the max.


Oh it's definitely disgusting. I completely agree. Child rape is worse than murder in my opinion. (I'd rather be accused of killing someone than child rape)

Due to it's uniqueness as a case though, I don't think imposing penalties is as cut and dry as some would like it to be. I get everyone's perspective. It was a disgusting situation and punishing the football program is a logical followthrough - which I support for the most part - we just disagree on the severity of the punishment.

After reading the report in full, I can definitely say there are 2 or 3 members of the PSU administration that deserve jail time.

dougdirt
01-22-2015, 03:19 PM
Did the Penn State football team rape a bunch of children?


Teams are punished all of the time for actions not involving the football players, but the administration or coaches doing something.

villain612
01-22-2015, 03:27 PM
Teams are punished all of the time for actions not involving the football players, but the administration or coaches doing something.

True...but 99% of the time, those actions taken by the coaches or administration have something to do with an on-the-field competitive advantage.

The PSU case is pretty unique.

MWM
01-22-2015, 05:13 PM
Shutting down the program doesn't penalize the players. It penalizes the university. Every one of those players could easily go play someplace else. Not being able to play college football at all would be penalizing the players. Not being able to play for Penn State is not punishment. It may be inconvenient, but it doesn't keep them from being able to play the sports and earn a college degree.

The university and program are responsible for this, and they should have been punished in accordance to how atrocious it was that they let it happen after they knew about it, and for creating the type of culture that allowed it to get swept under the rug. You punish the university and the program by taking away the thing that was so precious to them that it caused them to put that thing above something as obvious as protecting children from a pedophile. To me, that was the only real choice. I wouldn't have been opposed to the school itself being shut down as well, but I think taking away the football program was the least they should have done.

RedsBaron
01-22-2015, 06:10 PM
I still oppose taking victories away years after the fact. The wins happened.
However imposing the death penalty as was done to SMU makes a great deal of sense to me. As MWM noted, the death penalty hits the university, not current players who had nothing to do with Sandusky, et al. In this regard the penalty imposed upon PSU was too light.

KronoRed
01-22-2015, 06:12 PM
Did the Penn State football team rape a bunch of children?

I am trying to establish the protocol and boundary of support for shutting an entire program down.

We're talking about a criminal action here. Not NCAA infractions. It's a fair question.

How does covering up a child rapist to protect the football team not count as 'lack of institutional control'?

Dom Heffner
01-22-2015, 06:40 PM
8502

This is what the NCAA meeting was like...

dougdirt
01-22-2015, 06:41 PM
True...but 99% of the time, those actions taken by the coaches or administration have something to do with an on-the-field competitive advantage.

The PSU case is pretty unique.

Covering it up led to a lack of punishments to the football program, which led directly to an on the field advantage.

Chip R
01-23-2015, 09:54 AM
True...but 99% of the time, those actions taken by the coaches or administration have something to do with an on-the-field competitive advantage.

The PSU case is pretty unique.

Not really. Let's use tOSU as an example. Those players that got the free and/or discounted tattoos has nothing to do whether they can win games. It's just a benefit of being a football player. The real "crime" was Tressel covering it up. Players who get money and/or gifts from boosters doesn't give a team a competitive advantage. It's just an extra benefit. That's really what most violations are: extra benefits that regular students don't get. If some auto dealership in Columbus wants to give football and basketball players free rides, there's nothing stopping a dealership in Ann Arbor or Iowa City or Minneapolis from doing the same.

Sea Ray
01-23-2015, 11:26 AM
I still oppose taking victories away years after the fact. The wins happened.
However imposing the death penalty as was done to SMU makes a great deal of sense to me. As MWM noted, the death penalty hits the university, not current players who had nothing to do with Sandusky, et al. In this regard the penalty imposed upon PSU was too light.

Taking victories away does nothing to help the kids. It just makes some frustrated folks feel better that something was done. I understand the temptation to "do something" on this but there's not much that can or needs to be done now. The perpetrator is in jail for life. The head coach is dead. I agree with the NCAA's recent action; time to move on

Assembly Hall
01-23-2015, 11:42 AM
I still feel the university was penalized for things that did not involve the NCAA's realm of focus. The bigger out cry should have come from the B1G, kicked their arsz's out of the conference. Then the rest of the Power 5, could have followed suit...don't let them in. Penn State would have been relegated to playing either as an independent or a conference that has no title hopes. Let the victories stand, but the "mystique" of Penn State football would have fell off the map.

villain612
01-23-2015, 03:00 PM
Not really. Let's use tOSU as an example. Those players that got the free and/or discounted tattoos has nothing to do whether they can win games. It's just a benefit of being a football player. The real "crime" was Tressel covering it up. Players who get money and/or gifts from boosters doesn't give a team a competitive advantage. It's just an extra benefit. That's really what most violations are: extra benefits that regular students don't get. If some auto dealership in Columbus wants to give football and basketball players free rides, there's nothing stopping a dealership in Ann Arbor or Iowa City or Minneapolis from doing the same.

In regards to Ohio State's violation, had Tressel reported the extra benefits as he was supposed to, then Pryor and the other players would've been suspended and missed games. So lying about it (or not reporting it) gave them the on-the-field advantage of having those players being able to play when they shouldn't have been able to. Vacating those wins actually makes sense in that case.

villain612
01-23-2015, 03:02 PM
Covering it up led to a lack of punishments to the football program, which led directly to an on the field advantage.

It's a weird situation.

When the 2001 incident occurred, Sandusky was no longer on the PSU coaching staff. He was a retiree who had access to the school's facilities and still had involvement with the 2nd Mile organization. Would reporting him to the cops then been a detriment to the football team? Maybe. It's possible I guess. To me, after reading the report, it reeked of JoePa and a few others covering for a an old friend of 30+ years (and JoePa's right hand man) than it did of protecting the football program. Regardless of motivation, still some messed up stuff.