PDA

View Full Version : EE Contract Extension



powersackers
07-12-2012, 01:15 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120712&content_id=34857644&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

27M for 3 years. With 10M club option in year 4.

I think AA and Toronto made a good choice locking him up.

RedEye
07-12-2012, 01:30 PM
Well, I guess Rolen's intangibles for 2010 -- and his first half stats -- contributed to a Division title. EE is a good hitter though...

cincrazy
07-12-2012, 01:44 PM
I think it's a risk on Toronto's part. He brings nothing to the table defensively, and has always been a streaky hitter. I don't think it's a bad investment, per se. $9 million a year won't cripple anyone. But it will be interesting to see if he can continue to do this going forward.

_Sir_Charles_
07-12-2012, 02:38 PM
I think it's a risk on Toronto's part. He brings nothing to the table defensively, and has always been a streaky hitter. I don't think it's a bad investment, per se. $9 million a year won't cripple anyone. But it will be interesting to see if he can continue to do this going forward.

Now that's being a bit unfair. He brings NOTHING to the table defensively? He's got excellent range and above average hands, he's also got a cannon...albeit a loose one. He's certainly athletic enough that if given enough reps he could play 1st or left fairly effectively I'd think. It was always his throws to first & 2nd that were his problem defensively IMO.

cumberlandreds
07-12-2012, 02:51 PM
Now that's being a bit unfair. He brings NOTHING to the table defensively? He's got excellent range and above average hands, he's also got a cannon...albeit a loose one. He's certainly athletic enough that if given enough reps he could play 1st or left fairly effectively I'd think. It was always his throws to first & 2nd that were his problem defensively IMO.

EE is playing almost all 1B or DH this season. He has appeared only one game 3B. I think the Jays saw him as a not very good defensive player and made him a DH. I always thought EE would probably end up a DH in the AL.


http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/encared01.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/encared01.shtml)

REDREAD
07-12-2012, 02:57 PM
I guess I see this as a risky move.
Not really sure I'd want to make a long term commitment to EE, but maybe he's matured since he's left.
I agree that if he maintains this level of prodution, it's a good investment.
He just seems to be a "one year wonder" candidate.
However, I have not watched him play, so maybe there's some legitimate adjustments he has made.

mdccclxix
07-12-2012, 03:03 PM
Glad he's doing well.

Glad he's gone.

It's a nice 3 year deal, but I think it's too much.

Imagine this in no way possible lineup:

Phillips 2b
Bruce rf
Votto lf
J. Hamilton cf
EE/Dunn 1b
Frazier/EE 3b
Mezanigan C
Cozart SS

Bench
Stubbs
Heisey

I don't know how running a team works, but the Reds never have been one to move players to new positions with any success. Alonso was a disaster. But Dunn and EE to 1b was always imminent. Votto to LF could have been planned for and decided in 2004 or 2005. Who knows. Where's that "What if..." thread...

_Sir_Charles_
07-12-2012, 03:05 PM
EE is playing almost all 1B or DH this season. He has appeared only one game 3B. I think the Jays saw him as a not very good defensive player and made him a DH. I always thought EE would probably end up a DH in the AL.


[/URL][url]http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/encared01.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/encared01.shtml)

I don't disagree with that. Being in the AL makes that decision much easier of course. But to say he brings nothing defensively...I just thought that was a bit harsh towards EE. He's horrible in regards to throwing accuracy...but he does have SOME plus skills defensively.

mdccclxix
07-12-2012, 03:07 PM
I guess I see this as a risky move.
Not really sure I'd want to make a long term commitment to EE, but maybe he's matured since he's left.
I agree that if he maintains this level of prodution, it's a good investment.
He just seems to be a "one year wonder" candidate.
However, I have not watched him play, so maybe there's some legitimate adjustments he has made.

You can often look for some really great, sometimes career best, years from 29-33 year olds. Especially in the slugging department. I think that may be what we see from EE. I think of Phillips too, when the time comes, he may beef up even more and bomb 30 again in the coming years. Certainly not out of the question if you ask me.

MartyFan
07-12-2012, 03:17 PM
Glad he's doing well.

Glad he's gone.

It's a nice 3 year deal, but I think it's too much.

Imagine this in no way possible lineup:

Phillips 2b
Bruce rf
Votto lf
J. Hamilton cf
EE/Dunn 1b
Frazier/EE 3b
Mezanigan C
Cozart SS

Bench
Stubbs
Heisey

I don't know how running a team works, but the Reds never have been one to move players to new positions with any success. Alonso was a disaster. But Dunn and EE to 1b was always imminent. Votto to LF could have been planned for and decided in 2004 or 2005. Who knows. Where's that "What if..." thread...

ummm...Pete Rose, Tony Perez and Brandon Phillips all say hi! :D

I agree that has usually not been a great success with Dunn or Kearns when they tried either one of them at 3B or 1B...of course I think while he was in a Reds uni, Dunn was fat and lazy.

reds44
07-12-2012, 03:41 PM
Brandon Phillips was moved to a new position?

klw
07-12-2012, 03:44 PM
Brandon Phillips was moved to a new position?

If this is true I am surprised, nay shocked, no one ever suggested moving him back to shortstop. ;)

reds44
07-12-2012, 03:45 PM
He played 3 innings at SS in his career with the Indians. He was a 2nd baseman.

klw
07-12-2012, 04:16 PM
He played 3 innings at SS in his career with the Indians. He was a 2nd baseman.

Though he was also used a 2b, he was primarily SS throughout his time in the minors.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=philli001bra

For more on how he was viewed, here is a Baseball Prospectus write up on the Bartolo Colon trade from 2002.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1544


Bartolo Colon was obviously the Indians' most attractive player and he netted what was likely the best collection of prospects that were available in shortstop Brandon Phillips, left-hander Cliff Lee, and outfielder Grady Sizemore.

Phillips is a multi-tool athlete in the Barry Larkin mold. His power is starting to emerge as he physically matures and gains experience. The 21-year-old has been able to maintain a high batting average, though he could stand to be more disciplined at the plate (18 walks, 39 strikeouts this year). Phillips hit .327/.380/.506 with nine home runs and six stolen bases in 245 at-bats for Double-A Harrisburg, and was hitting .257 in 35 at-bats for Triple-A Ottawa. Defensively, he has the range and arm strength to play shortstop in the majors, though he does not always show consistency. His baserunning is more instinctive than a reflection of his speed.

The Indians sent Phillips to Triple-A Buffalo and will keep him at shortstop, but because of the crowded Cleveland infield, his eventual position is up in the air. Omar Vizquel still has two years and $15 million left on his contract, while Gutierrez is in the first year of a three-year, $11-million deal, making it tough for Phillips to break into the middle infield. Travis Fryman has a club option for 2003 that the Indians certainly won't pick up, which would open a spot for Phillips. He did play third base in the 2001 Arizona Fall League on a semi-regular basis, so he has experience at that position. The Indians' system was almost devoid of middle-infield prospects, so the acquisition of Phillips fills an organizational hole.

I think you could make the argument the Reds did not move Phillips as much as the transition to 2b had begun prior to the acquisition.

cincrazy
07-12-2012, 04:20 PM
I don't disagree with that. Being in the AL makes that decision much easier of course. But to say he brings nothing defensively...I just thought that was a bit harsh towards EE. He's horrible in regards to throwing accuracy...but he does have SOME plus skills defensively.

We can agree to disagree. He may have good range and hands, but his throwing accuracy totally cancelled the rest out, IMO. He was awful at 3B for the Reds, has no impact at 1B whatsoever, and obviously as a DH is never in the field. They're paying him essentially for what he can do with his bat, and his bat alone. And I'm not sure he's a good enough bet going forward to justify that contract.

bucksfan2
07-12-2012, 04:30 PM
I saw something on deadspin ranking Edwin as one of the worst defenders in the history of baseball (based upon some WAR metric). He is strictly a DH who may have little value at 1b. I am surprised no team tried to move him out to LF. I wouldn't have paid Edwin that kind of money but I am sure he would have gotten something close in the FA market. Right now his OPS is .100 points above his career average. Kinda a risky deal for the Jays but a deal he would have gotten none the less.

_Sir_Charles_
07-12-2012, 04:35 PM
We can agree to disagree. He may have good range and hands, but his throwing accuracy totally cancelled the rest out, IMO. He was awful at 3B for the Reds, has no impact at 1B whatsoever, and obviously as a DH is never in the field. They're paying him essentially for what he can do with his bat, and his bat alone. And I'm not sure he's a good enough bet going forward to justify that contract.

We don't disagree. Not really. He was an abomination at 3rd for the Reds. No doubt. But, that being said, he's still very athletic and possesses some well above average defensive "traits". If given enough reps, I think he could be a very passable LF'er or 1B. But I'm glad he's someone else's problem and not ours.

Patrick Bateman
07-12-2012, 04:50 PM
Well, I guess Rolen's intangibles for 2010 -- and his first half stats -- contributed to a Division title. EE is a good hitter though...

EE was on waivers already a year ago.

The Reds won the trade (Stewart has been passed around a ton already, and EE was awful in the years that Toronto acquired him for in the trade).

At the time EE had negative trade value as he was not producing and making a large wage.

I'm happy for EE, but the Reds, like every other team in MLB could have had him for nothing. Reds won the trade, but like everyone else, didn't appear to see his breakout in this particular year happening.

camisadelgolf
07-12-2012, 05:44 PM
There shouldn't be winners and losers in trades; both teams should win. It's not a competition to see who can rip off the opposing gm more. That's how JimBo approached it, and he got chased out of the league. The bottom line is that both the Reds and Blue Jays won the deal.

The Jays got rid of Rolen in a salary dump, and to help alleviate the difference in salaries, they received Encarnacion. In other words, it was a salary dump for a salary dump, but the Reds got the best player, and the Blue Jays got the prospects. Although the prospects (Stewart and Roenicke) haven't amounted to much, Stewart helped the Jays land Colby Rasmus, so I'm sure they're thinking they won that deal despite the Reds having seen more positive, direct results. And had they waited to do the deal, they likely wouldn't have gotten nearly as much for Rolen as they did, so it's a good thing for them they traded him when they did. Then again, if the Reds had waited a year to trade Zach Stewart, they wouldn't have gotten as much for him either.

As for the Reds, they're an NL team that traded a designated hitter and two middle relief prospects for a player that helped them win a division and change the clubhouse culture. The aforementioned prospects have limited ceilings and are still trying to consistently get hitters out. All in all, the trade has helped both the Reds and Jays quite a bit.

westofyou
07-13-2012, 04:04 PM
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=17643



But the money and length are reasonable here, and what alternative did the Jays have? Reports suggest they were feeling out the Encarnacion trade market as recently as last week. The new Collective Bargaining Agreement presumably killed their chances of getting a good piece back, since the new team could not receive draft-pick compensation. Similarly, the Jays may have felt Encarnacion would accept the qualifying offer. That left Toronto with two avenues: extend Encarnacion or let him walk at season’s end.

When the Twins extended Ryan Doumit I wondered if we’d see more good, not great players receive extensions as a way to improve their trade value. It applies here, too. The Jays can keep Encarnacion through season’s end and shop him in the offseason. Alternatively, they could keep him and see if these improvements have turned him into one of the league’s better hitters. If the worst-case scenario is having an above-average bat under control through the 2015 season at an average annual value of less than $10 million then you should probably feel okay about doing the deal.

Spitball
07-13-2012, 10:48 PM
Does it seem some mediocre players suddenly learn to hit with power in Toronto? Alex Gonzalez hits 17 homeruns and has nearly a .800 OPS in just over 300 at bats. Bautista becomes a 50 home run monster. Encarnacion goes from limbo to an offensive force. What are they doing up there with these guys?

edabbs44
07-13-2012, 10:51 PM
Does it seem some mediocre players suddenly learn to hit with power in Toronto? Alex Gonzalez hits 17 homeruns and has nearly a .800 OPS in just over 300 at bats. Bautista becomes a 50 home run monster. Encarnacion goes from limbo to an offensive force. What are they doing up there with these guys?

You get yelled at for mentioning it.

cincrazy
07-13-2012, 11:00 PM
You get yelled at for mentioning it.

I think you're referring to steroids, but there were accusations a year or two ago of the Blue Jays stealing signs.

edabbs44
07-13-2012, 11:04 PM
I think you're referring to steroids, but there were accusations a year or two ago of the Blue Jays stealing signs.

No, that's what I am referring to.

Big Klu
07-14-2012, 02:56 AM
I think it's the exchange rate.

gilpdawg
07-14-2012, 06:42 AM
I think it's the exchange rate.
LOL. He's only got 18 HR U.S. :laugh:

PuffyPig
07-14-2012, 09:23 AM
There shouldn't be winners and losers in trades; both teams should win.

In a fantasy world, yes.

In the real world players play at different levels and the chance that one player will play at a better level than his trade partner is high.

In some cases both players play poorly, so theres a chance of both teams being labeled losers.

Blitz Dorsey
07-14-2012, 01:23 PM
I have never been more wrong about anything in my life than Edwin Encarnacion. I thought the guy was a complete bum and would never be a good player at the MLB level for a sustained period of time. What's in the water in Toronto as it pertains to guys like EE and Bautista going from average-at-best players to among the best sluggers in the game? Completely baffled.

I watched Encarnacion closely for many years and he was a guy with a bad approach at the plate and too long of a swing. I was convinced he was never going to be a consistently-good hitter. He'd have hot stretches, but nothing more than that. Add that with his defensive ineptitude at third and I thought he'd fizzle out of MLB a few years after leaving the Reds.

Uh, wrong. Guy has shortened his swing from what I can tell and has turned himself into an excellent offensive threat. Seriously, never been more wrong about a baseball player before in my life. I take pride in pegging these things correctly! Ha. And like I said, I can't think of anything, period, that I've been more wrong about. Maybe that JoPa wouldn't cover up child rape. But that's about it.

westofyou
07-14-2012, 05:06 PM
I have never been more wrong about anything in my life than Edwin Encarnacion. I thought the guy was a complete bum and would never be a good player at the MLB level for a sustained period of time. What's in the water in Toronto as it pertains to guys like EE and Bautista going from average-at-best players to among the best sluggers in the game? Completely baffled.

I watched Encarnacion closely for many years and he was a guy with a bad approach at the plate and too long of a swing. I was convinced he was never going to be a consistently-good hitter. He'd have hot stretches, but nothing more than that. Add that with his defensive ineptitude at third and I thought he'd fizzle out of MLB a few years after leaving the Reds.

Uh, wrong. Guy has shortened his swing from what I can tell and has turned himself into an excellent offensive threat. Seriously, never been more wrong about a baseball player before in my life. I take pride in pegging these things correctly! Ha. And like I said, I can't think of anything, period, that I've been more wrong about. Maybe that JoPa wouldn't cover up child rape. But that's about it.
Willie Greene for me, he had a .816 OPS as a Red from 96-98 and died on the vine once he left.

I was certain EE was on the same train, look at their OPS + they (up into this year were eerily similar) plus they both butchered 3rd, seemed out the game in their heads at times and were frustrating to Marty

Almost doppelgangers up until this year.

powersackers
07-14-2012, 06:53 PM
Did you guys see where his HR landed in the Sky dome? Oh my.

_Sir_Charles_
07-14-2012, 08:59 PM
Did you guys see where his HR landed in the Sky dome? Oh my.

Yep. One of the more impressive shots I've ever seen. Can't wait to hear the estimated distance on that bomb.

powersackers
07-15-2012, 12:53 AM
It might be here tomorrow

http://hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2012_418&type=hitter

WVRedsFan
07-15-2012, 02:52 AM
Hated EE when he was here. Horrible fielder and frustrating hitter. Hot or not. He's where he belongs in the AL. I'd take Rolen or Frazier over him every day of the week.

gilpdawg
07-15-2012, 04:50 AM
Yep. One of the more impressive shots I've ever seen. Can't wait to hear the estimated distance on that bomb.

467 ft.

I liked EE, although he was frustrating at times. I mostly supported him because I would be annoyed at hearing chatter at the games like, he doesn't smile or show emotion on the field or look happy so he's a bum, like that matters.

I have to bite my tongue a lot at the games, thanks to education this site and others have given me. I may start a "dumb things overheard at games" thread. :D

When Marshall entered the game today a guy was beside himself. Anybody but him, he said repeatedly. You know, because you don't want to bring in your best setup lefty to turn around Lance Berkman to his weaker side in a huge spot or anything.

powersackers
07-15-2012, 02:16 PM
Watching EE highlights of the HRs yesterday I noticed his setup at home looks exactly like Joey Bats. Other right handed hitters should take notice.