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corkedbat
07-22-2012, 01:15 AM
I haven't paid too much attention to team stats recently, but was looking through them tonight and was somewhat surprised to find that the Reds were third in MLB in ERA with a 3.33 mark (behind only Washington [3.28] and Los Angeles [3.30]). They're also leading MLB in CG's with 7.

Brutus
07-22-2012, 01:17 AM
I haven't checked in probably a week or 10 days, but last I knew, the Reds led the Majors in strikeout-walk ratio as well.

nemesis
07-22-2012, 02:30 AM
Brian Price has done a wonderful job with the Staff. His continued employment with the Reds needs to be a priority.

Jacoby on the other hand...

Tom Servo
07-22-2012, 02:39 AM
I think we have a better staff than the Dodgers (even though Kershaw is better than anyone on the Reds staff).

HeatherC1212
07-22-2012, 03:13 AM
Never thought I'd see the day when the Reds pitching staff is more exciting and more often than not, more enjoyable, than the Reds offense. :p I like seeing the guys hit and all but I absolutely love this pitching staff this year. They're just great. :D

WVRedsFan
07-22-2012, 03:31 AM
Never thought I'd see the day when the Reds pitching staff is more exciting and more often than not, more enjoyable, than the Reds offense. :p I like seeing the guys hit and all but I absolutely love this pitching staff this year. They're just great. :D

After nearly 50 years, I agree with you Heather (yes, I'm old.). Pitching and the Reds? What a foreign concept. But I like it.

BTW, I started out really young. I was born into this fandom :)

redsmetz
07-22-2012, 09:41 AM
My cousin invited me to a gathering at that private baseball museum in Montgomery (Green Diamond Gallery) with Tommy Helms and Lee May speaking. A number of retired players were there including Jim O'Toole who I sat with briefly. Now this was a couple of years ago when this staff was just starting to come on the horizon, but I asked him if he thought this was the best group of pitchers the club has had since his in the early 1960's. He agreed and that's before these guys had matured and come into their own. I think it may have been back in the early part of the 2010 season.

Some of the more expert historians on RZ can clarify this, but when I think of Reds pitch eras, you both are right, it's not a large number of squads who had great pitching. In my lifetime, it's probably the aforementioned 1960-1963 (?) staffs, then you have to jump back to the pennant winning teams in the late 30's and early 40's, again just moments, if you will, not long years of good pitching. Then you're looking at a handful of very good pitchers with teams that couldn't buy a hit even if they offered hard liquor! Pitch has rarely been our forte clearly.

nate
07-22-2012, 12:48 PM
Also 4th in FIP and 5th in xFIP; the pitching's been pretty good.

dougdirt
07-22-2012, 01:09 PM
Reds ERA+ is 126, which leads all of baseball. The Nationals are at 122 and Texas is at 120. No one else is at 120.

VR
07-22-2012, 01:10 PM
Top to bottom this is by far the best Reds staff I have ever seen.

Certainly teams with better pitchers, but as a staff.....wow.

HokieRed
07-22-2012, 03:40 PM
We have the staff to grind it out. Whatever they do on the trade situation, I hope they don't disturb the staff, especially the rotation.

Kc61
07-22-2012, 03:46 PM
I haven't paid too much attention to team stats recently, but was looking through them tonight and was somewhat surprised to find that the Reds were third in MLB in ERA with a 3.33 mark (behind only Washington [3.28] and Los Angeles [3.30]). They're also leading MLB in CG's with 7.

I do a thread every ten games that goes through many of the team stats. Feel free to take a peek to keep up to date.

Caveat Emperor
07-22-2012, 09:40 PM
Every member of the rotation has a CG -- I can't remember the last time that's happened for a Reds staff.

Mario-Rijo
07-22-2012, 09:44 PM
Brian Price has done a wonderful job with the Staff. His continued employment with the Reds needs to be a priority.

Jacoby on the other hand...

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Mario-Rijo
07-22-2012, 09:49 PM
My cousin invited me to a gathering at that private baseball museum in Montgomery (Green Diamond Gallery) with Tommy Helms and Lee May speaking. A number of retired players were there including Jim O'Toole who I sat with briefly. Now this was a couple of years ago when this staff was just starting to come on the horizon, but I asked him if he thought this was the best group of pitchers the club has had since his in the early 1960's. He agreed and that's before these guys had matured and come into their own. I think it may have been back in the early part of the 2010 season.

Some of the more expert historians on RZ can clarify this, but when I think of Reds pitch eras, you both are right, it's not a large number of squads who had great pitching. In my lifetime, it's probably the aforementioned 1960-1963 (?) staffs, then you have to jump back to the pennant winning teams in the late 30's and early 40's, again just moments, if you will, not long years of good pitching. Then you're looking at a handful of very good pitchers with teams that couldn't buy a hit even if they offered hard liquor! Pitch has rarely been our forte clearly.

That 88'-90' staff wasn't too bad. Rijo-Jackson-Browning was pretty doggone good and the pen was of course Nasty.

DGullett35
07-22-2012, 09:53 PM
Brian Price has done a wonderful job with the Staff. His continued employment with the Reds needs to be a priority.

Jacoby on the other hand...

Ill give that a few more:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:: thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

As long as we keep winning there will be no changes to the coaching staff. The only team that does that or would do that is the Yankees or so it seems. Also maybe its the players that are at fault. I remember a story my cousin Don told me back in 97 or so. Brett Tomko was on the mound for a game and was struggling big time. He was flying his front side open or something to that nature and Don went out to the mound to have a talk with him. He starts to speak and Brett looks at him and tells him to go back to the dugout and he used some choice words also. Don used to say Tomko wouldn't listen to his own mother. I remember the game vividly because I was there. It was vs. the Giants. Im sure theres guys like that all over the league and maybe some of our hitters. For some reason I can see Stubbs being that way. Seems like a nice guy but dang he just never seems to improve.

westofyou
07-22-2012, 10:17 PM
CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
MODERN (1900-)

RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
RUNS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
BASERUNNERS/9 IP displayed only--not a sorting criteria
WINS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
WINNING PERCENTAGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria

ERA YEAR DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE RSAA R BR/9 IP W PCT
1 Reds 1925 0.89 3.38 4.27 97 643 11.80 80 .523
2 Reds 1940 0.80 3.05 3.85 104 528 11.03 100 .654
3 Reds 1923 0.78 3.22 3.99 85 629 12.02 91 .591
4 Reds 1924 0.75 3.12 3.86 100 579 11.29 83 .542
5 Reds 1919 0.68 2.23 2.91 103 401 10.04 96 .686
6 Reds 1939 0.64 3.27 3.91 102 595 11.97 97 .630
7 Reds 1944 0.64 2.97 3.61 45 536 10.90 89 .578
8 Reds 1999 0.58 3.99 4.57 89 711 12.25 96 .589
9 Reds 1922 0.56 3.53 4.10 50 677 11.89 86 .558
10 Reds 1942 0.50 2.82 3.31 74 545 11.21 76 .500
11 Reds 1941 0.47 3.17 3.63 48 564 11.86 88 .571
12 Reds 1964 0.46 3.07 3.54 87 566 10.88 92 .568
13 Reds 1994 0.44 3.78 4.22 50 490 12.16 66 .579
14 Reds 1926 0.41 3.41 3.82 16 651 11.50 87 .565
15 Reds 1990 0.40 3.39 3.80 66 597 11.83 91 .562
16 Reds 1904 0.39 2.34 2.73 130 548 10.69 88 .575
17 Reds 1927 0.38 3.54 3.91 48 653 11.89 75 .490
18 Reds 1970 0.35 3.70 4.05 76 681 12.39 102 .630
19 Reds 1946 0.34 3.08 3.42 65 566 11.58 67 .435
20 Reds 1967 0.33 3.05 3.38 100 563 11.45 87 .537

traderumor
07-22-2012, 10:20 PM
Brian Price has done a wonderful job with the Staff. His continued employment with the Reds needs to be a priority.

Jacoby on the other hand...What about last year, when the pitching was in the bottom of the league, while the offense was in the top of the league for two straight years? Who gets credit/blame for that?

I'd say its probably more about the talent than the coaching.

mth123
07-22-2012, 10:30 PM
What about last year, when the pitching was in the bottom of the league, while the offense was in the top of the league for two straight years? Who gets credit/blame for that?

I'd say its probably more about the talent than the coaching.

Agreed. I actually think this team has come north three years in a row unprepared with the starters not being sufficiently stretched in Spring Training.

kaldaniels
07-22-2012, 10:33 PM
Ill give that a few more:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:: thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

As long as we keep winning there will be no changes to the coaching staff. The only team that does that or would do that is the Yankees or so it seems. Also maybe its the players that are at fault. I remember a story my cousin Don told me back in 97 or so. Brett Tomko was on the mound for a game and was struggling big time. He was flying his front side open or something to that nature and Don went out to the mound to have a talk with him. He starts to speak and Brett looks at him and tells him to go back to the dugout and he used some choice words also. Don used to say Tomko wouldn't listen to his own mother. I remember the game vividly because I was there. It was vs. the Giants. Im sure theres guys like that all over the league and maybe some of our hitters. For some reason I can see Stubbs being that way. Seems like a nice guy but dang he just never seems to improve.

I had no idea Don was your cousin! Great insight and I look forward to reading more from you. :thumbup:

Mario-Rijo
07-22-2012, 10:45 PM
What about last year, when the pitching was in the bottom of the league, while the offense was in the top of the league for two straight years? Who gets credit/blame for that?

I'd say its probably more about the talent than the coaching.

Ah come on. The whole offense in the top of the league is propped up by alot of home cooking, players who the league had little to no book on & pure slugging. That doesn't make them a good offensive unit. As evidenced by the fact they aren't as good now with little to no change to the personnel. And they have even further downside as soon as teams get a book on Cozart & Frazier.

The pitching was in the bottom of the league in part to talent. But Price has been integral to the success of Cueto & Bailey & Chapman 3 of our most important arms, I think that's clear. And if he has been as good as we suspect with them then I'd guess he has had a big impact on most of the guys.

DGullett35
07-22-2012, 11:12 PM
I had no idea Don was your cousin! Great insight and I look forward to reading more from you. :thumbup:

Yep Don is my 2nd cousin, and Yes I do miss all the free tickets we used to get:)

corkedbat
07-23-2012, 01:20 AM
Whoops! Wrong thread.

VR
07-23-2012, 02:09 AM
One small detail to go along with the exceptional pitching.....Reds lead the league in defense.

I'd love to see a stat that showed how many "+" plays the defense has made that have taken away hits or prevented extra bases. Just groovy seeing the plays they make day in and day out.

redsmetz
07-23-2012, 06:44 AM
CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
MODERN (1900-)

RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
RUNS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
BASERUNNERS/9 IP displayed only--not a sorting criteria
WINS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
WINNING PERCENTAGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria

ERA YEAR DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE RSAA R BR/9 IP W PCT
1 Reds 1925 0.89 3.38 4.27 97 643 11.80 80 .523
2 Reds 1940 0.80 3.05 3.85 104 528 11.03 100 .654
3 Reds 1923 0.78 3.22 3.99 85 629 12.02 91 .591
4 Reds 1924 0.75 3.12 3.86 100 579 11.29 83 .542
5 Reds 1919 0.68 2.23 2.91 103 401 10.04 96 .686
6 Reds 1939 0.64 3.27 3.91 102 595 11.97 97 .630
7 Reds 1944 0.64 2.97 3.61 45 536 10.90 89 .578
8 Reds 1999 0.58 3.99 4.57 89 711 12.25 96 .589
9 Reds 1922 0.56 3.53 4.10 50 677 11.89 86 .558
10 Reds 1942 0.50 2.82 3.31 74 545 11.21 76 .500
11 Reds 1941 0.47 3.17 3.63 48 564 11.86 88 .571
12 Reds 1964 0.46 3.07 3.54 87 566 10.88 92 .568
13 Reds 1994 0.44 3.78 4.22 50 490 12.16 66 .579
14 Reds 1926 0.41 3.41 3.82 16 651 11.50 87 .565
15 Reds 1990 0.40 3.39 3.80 66 597 11.83 91 .562
16 Reds 1904 0.39 2.34 2.73 130 548 10.69 88 .575
17 Reds 1927 0.38 3.54 3.91 48 653 11.89 75 .490
18 Reds 1970 0.35 3.70 4.05 76 681 12.39 102 .630
19 Reds 1946 0.34 3.08 3.42 65 566 11.58 67 .435
20 Reds 1967 0.33 3.05 3.38 100 563 11.45 87 .537

That's an interesting list (and our current team nowhere to be found - or would that be naturally excluded from a "look back"?). The 1920's teams were well represented here and even have one of the sub-500 records (1942, the other). I assume the problem for them was a complete lack of meaningful hitting. I'm hardpressed off the top of my head to think of any hitter on those teams other than Edd Roush and I'm not sure when he left Cincy without looking ('26 or so?)

Mario-Rijo
07-23-2012, 10:33 AM
One small detail to go along with the exceptional pitching.....Reds lead the league in defense.

I'd love to see a stat that showed how many "+" plays the defense has made that have taken away hits or prevented extra bases. Just groovy seeing the plays they make day in and day out.

Exactly when Rolen, Hanny & Heisey are on the field along with the normal starters this defense couldn't be much better.

westofyou
07-23-2012, 10:40 AM
That's an interesting list (and our current team nowhere to be found - or would that be naturally excluded from a "look back"?). The 1920's teams were well represented here and even have one of the sub-500 records (1942, the other). I assume the problem for them was a complete lack of meaningful hitting. I'm hardpressed off the top of my head to think of any hitter on those teams other than Edd Roush and I'm not sure when he left Cincy without looking ('26 or so?)
Redland was perhaps the most extreme pitchers park in the game in the 20s and the Reds were short on top shelf offensive players, leaning mostly on Roush, Walker, Duncan and guys like Wally Pipp, Charlie Dressen and Babe Pinella, not exactly world beaters.

The presence of the McKetchie teams shows the reliance on pitching and defense he had and the lack of any offense during the war

Surprise team?

1999 for sure, great BP like 1990 and this year, really pushes the staff upwards

Big Klu
07-23-2012, 12:19 PM
Redland was perhaps the most extreme pitchers park in the game in the 20s and the Reds were short on top shelf offensive players, leaning mostly on Roush, Walker, Duncan and guys like Wally Pipp, Charlie Dressen and Babe Pinella, not exactly world beaters.

The presence of the McKetchie teams shows the reliance on pitching and defense he had and the lack of any offense during the war

Surprise team?

1999 for sure, great BP like 1990 and this year, really pushes the staff upwards

Where's 1982? ;)

Hargrave wasn't a bad hitter on those 20's teams.

traderumor
07-23-2012, 03:06 PM
Ah come on. The whole offense in the top of the league is propped up by alot of home cooking, players who the league had little to no book on & pure slugging. That doesn't make them a good offensive unit. As evidenced by the fact they aren't as good now with little to no change to the personnel. And they have even further downside as soon as teams get a book on Cozart & Frazier.

The pitching was in the bottom of the league in part to talent. But Price has been integral to the success of Cueto & Bailey & Chapman 3 of our most important arms, I think that's clear. And if he has been as good as we suspect with them then I'd guess he has had a big impact on most of the guys.

The league didn't have a book on Rolen? Gomes? Votto? Bruce? Phillips? Cabrera? Cairo? 2011 OPS+, which includes park factors as I understand it, is at 98, 5th in the league. 2010 was 106, leading the league. It seems when some equalizing is done to the team stats for the "home cooking," my statement is still correct.

What's up this year? The young guys haven't taken a step forward (is it the dreaded "book" factor?) and vets like Rolen and Ludwick struggled out of the gate.

But there is a degree of myth to your "home cooking" theory, so it seems.

membengal
07-25-2012, 11:51 AM
Here is something cool, no matter where the above discussion winds up, this is clearly one of the better reds starting staffs in the last quarter century, and 60% of it is homegrown. Solid.

And the two from outside the organization were acquired using pieces from the organization, and not via free agency. Further solid.

Thats how a lower payroll team can compete on the regular.

VR
07-26-2012, 12:49 AM
After Dempster's outing today....Johnny is now the official Major League leader in ERA.

Very nice.

Homer Bailey
07-26-2012, 04:08 PM
The Reds have the 2nd best ERA in Major League Baseball. It's almost August.

Caveat Emperor
07-27-2012, 07:47 PM
Fun note that I saw in the Dispatch a few days ago:


Bailey said the pitchers have developed a camaraderie aided by a kangaroo-court system. Each starter chips in $100 and has to pay a fine for such sins as walking the opposing pitcher or failing to execute a sacrifice bunt. A pitcher wins the pool by hitting a home run, getting three hits or pitching a complete game.

Thought that was pretty cool.

dougdirt
07-27-2012, 11:35 PM
Coming into tonight the Reds ERA+ was 127. The Phillies in 2011 were also at 127. You have to go back to the 2003 Dodgers to find a team with a better ERA+ than that.

fearofpopvol1
07-28-2012, 12:56 AM
Tonight will only help that staff ERA. Great shutout! And props to Arroyo. He's having a comeback year. He's on pace to have his 2nd best season as a Red and his best year since 2006, which I don't think many at RZ would've envisioned in spring training.

Vottomatic
07-28-2012, 09:14 AM
Still 2nd overall at 3.25 behind the Nats at 3.22. Dodgers third at 3.36.

Chapman - 48.2 IP, 93 K. Unreal. He makes it an 8 inning game for the opponent.

dougdirt
07-28-2012, 11:00 AM
129 ERA+. That would be the best since the 2002 Braves.