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View Full Version : Reds vs. Astros Monday 7/23/2012



texasdave
07-23-2012, 04:31 PM
Cozart SS
Stubbs CF
Phillips 2B
Ludwick LF
Frazier 1B
Rolen 3B
Heisey RF
Hanigan C
Latos P

Flip-flopping Cozart and Stubbs. Bruce sits against Captain Wandy.

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 04:54 PM
Reds 10
Astros 2

brm7675
07-23-2012, 06:25 PM
Ugg..why not put Heisey at LO and Cozart in his slot and hit Stubbs 2nd...

Stray
07-23-2012, 07:35 PM
Good move to get Bruce out today. Was hoping to see Stubbs-Heisey-Ludwick vs. Wandy.

FloridaBuckeye
07-23-2012, 07:46 PM
Anyone watching the pirates broadcast on MLB.tv? is it just me or is the video quality terrible?!

The Rage
07-23-2012, 08:01 PM
Big start for FLatos tonight. He should be able to shut these guys down easy.

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 08:12 PM
Stubbs was very far on that...worked well. When Altuve grabbed that immediately I thought it would be a force at 2nd.

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 08:14 PM
Ugg..why not put Heisey at LO and Cozart in his slot and hit Stubbs 2nd...

SS bats 1st or 2nd

Renteria
Royce Clayton
Paul Janish
Miguel Cairo
Orlando Cabrera

Janish and Clayton getting some starts batting 2nd was outstanding.

Stray
07-23-2012, 08:17 PM
Stubbs scored a run

Good deal.

Red Raindog
07-23-2012, 08:17 PM
Frazier comes through -- yawn --- :D

Red Raindog
07-23-2012, 08:17 PM
Stubbs scored a run

Good deal.

chalk up the W!

The Rage
07-23-2012, 08:17 PM
Terrific AB by Todd

bigredmechanism
07-23-2012, 08:27 PM
Latos gets the Astros 1-2-3.

1-0, good guys, after one.

Red Raindog
07-23-2012, 08:27 PM
Latos gets them in the first -- I liked getting this guy from the start -- ignoring what we gave up to get him --- but he's been better than I hoped since his bad start.

If he keeps pitching like he has --- we have a solid keeper

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 08:40 PM
chalk up the W!

92% chance of winning

Though I think we are 2-1 against the Stros when he scores.

The Rage
07-23-2012, 08:41 PM
Get the ball down Mat. Lucky we aren't going against a MLB team at GAB.

Red Raindog
07-23-2012, 08:44 PM
small strike zone

texasdave
07-23-2012, 08:47 PM
Wandy Rodriguez is 0 for 2012. LOL.

Red Raindog
07-23-2012, 08:49 PM
Wandy Rodriguez is 0 for 2012. LOL.

good place to keep him --- in fact I'd prefer he doesn't get another AB tonight

malcontent
07-23-2012, 08:50 PM
They're not even the Houston AAAstros at this point.

More like the AAstros.

Latos > AAstros?

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 08:50 PM
Anyone talented enough to pull that total of times each team has faced a pitcher with 2 outs and bases loaded in the past month? Lol

It seem like about 2 times a game for Latos, Cueto, Homer.

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 08:51 PM
Shoulda had his second oppo hit on that first pitch

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 08:52 PM
Oppo is your friend

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 08:52 PM
Kelch said 32-2

I think it's 33-3

Be right back!

Maker_84
07-23-2012, 08:53 PM
cubs are holding on for dear life to a 1-0 lead

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 08:55 PM
Kelch said 32-2

I think it's 33-3

Be right back!

Kelch is right! Stupid small columns on baseball reference!

KYRedLeg
07-23-2012, 08:55 PM
That's right Brandon, argue that you didn't strike out, and send Stubbs back to 1st in the process.

Selfish.

rolenmvp
07-23-2012, 08:55 PM
2-0 reds!

arkimadee
07-23-2012, 08:56 PM
Let's extend Ludwicks contract!

rolenmvp
07-23-2012, 08:57 PM
Good job frazier just standing there.

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 08:58 PM
cubs are holding on for dear life to a 1-0 lead

Lol Cubs have 2 hits and Pirates have 1....(you'll never guess who)

Samardzija only 74 pitches thru 6

George Foster
07-23-2012, 08:58 PM
Stubbs has scored twice....this years statistics would say that this game is OVER.....:beerme:

mrherd05
07-23-2012, 08:58 PM
That's right Brandon, argue that you didn't strike out, and send Stubbs back to 1st in the process.

Selfish.


Guy is stepping up right now with the loss of Votto and this is the love he gets, you guys amaze me.

The Rage
07-23-2012, 08:58 PM
Gotta hand it to Frazier. Both a horrible and excellent ab's in the same game.

Maker_84
07-23-2012, 08:59 PM
Gotta hand it to Frazier. Both a horrible and excellent ab's in the same game.

Frazier has had an up and down year at the plate

Stray
07-23-2012, 09:01 PM
The OF we started tonight hits Wandy well. Not surprising they're coming through.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 09:01 PM
who is this team??? 2 out hits for Rib-I-Stakes??:beerme:

KYRedLeg
07-23-2012, 09:01 PM
Guy is stepping up right now with the loss of Votto and this is the love he gets, you guys amaze me.

I don't care who it is...arguing against a play that advanced the runner (a positive for your team) to protect your stat line is selfish. He was already down 2-strikes. Advancing the runner was the best I would have hoped for.

texasdave
07-23-2012, 09:02 PM
They're not even the Houston AAAstros at this point.

More like the AAstros.

Latos > AAstros?

Houston Low A-stros.

malcontent
07-23-2012, 09:10 PM
Bedard 7 2 1 1 2 11 tonight.

Smart move to get him.

Wish we had...and not gone the Latos route.

Maker_84
07-23-2012, 09:12 PM
if the cubs dont get another run i have a bad feeling about that game

The Rage
07-23-2012, 09:13 PM
Bedard 7 2 1 1 2 11 tonight.

Smart move to get him.

Wish we had...and not gone the Latos route.

He has been shelled quite a bit with little upside for the future.

Mutaman
07-23-2012, 09:15 PM
I might have been wrong about this Ludwick guy.

texasdave
07-23-2012, 09:16 PM
I looked at the Astros lineup and thought to myself, 'Is it September already?'.

Red Raindog
07-23-2012, 09:16 PM
Bedard 7 2 1 1 2 11 tonight.

Smart move to get him.

Wish we had...and not gone the Latos route.

100 IP 100 hits - 45 BB - WHIP 1.45 - ERA 4.32 ---

texasdave
07-23-2012, 09:19 PM
Phillips now 17 for 41 since the ASG. .415 average. Maybe .310 by the end of the year isn't so crazy after all.

Red Raindog
07-23-2012, 09:21 PM
Phillips now 17 for 41 since the ASG. .415 average. Maybe .310 by the end of the year isn't so crazy after all.

might be too low

texasdave
07-23-2012, 09:30 PM
Here comes Mr. 0fer2012.

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 09:30 PM
Anyone talented enough to pull that total of times each team has faced a pitcher with 2 outs and bases loaded in the past month? Lol

It seem like about 2 times a game for Latos, Cueto, Homer.

Once again

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 09:33 PM
Once again

Wandy has left a volleyball team on the bases the first two AB

The Rage
07-23-2012, 09:33 PM
The Astros are at the bottom of the barrel of rebuilding. Once "Wandy" goes, it will be a pure new startup program.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 09:33 PM
We are all Cubs fans this week.... Cubs up 1-0 over the Bucs in the 8th.

Maker_84
07-23-2012, 09:33 PM
We are all Cubs fans this week.... Cubs up 1-0 over the Bucs in the 8th.

2-0, Soriano doing his thing today!

texasdave
07-23-2012, 09:34 PM
Brad Mills never managed in the minors...until now.

Red Raindog
07-23-2012, 09:34 PM
We are all Cubs fans this week.... Cubs up 1-0 over the Bucs in the 8th.

2-0 in 9th

Red Raindog
07-23-2012, 09:35 PM
Brad Mills never managed in the minors...until now.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

George Foster
07-23-2012, 09:35 PM
2-0, Soriano doing his thing today!

If you would of ask me in April we would be watching the score board of the Cubs and Pirates at the end of July...i would of said you were crazy....:eek:

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 09:35 PM
Error by Mike Gallego

George Foster
07-23-2012, 09:37 PM
When was the last time you saw Scotty pull a ball to left? Just sayin...

Maker_84
07-23-2012, 09:45 PM
latos has really struggled today. struggled in his last start to

R_Webb18
07-23-2012, 09:47 PM
maybe he should get a mri

texasdave
07-23-2012, 09:50 PM
maybe he should get a mri

Whether he wants one or not. :laugh:

The Rage
07-23-2012, 09:51 PM
If Latos was going against the Cards, it would be a 6-7 earned run night. Lucky a minor league team decided to fill in.

Mutaman
07-23-2012, 09:54 PM
Latos makes a habit out of blowing leads.

Maker_84
07-23-2012, 09:54 PM
If Latos was going against the Cards, it would be a 6-7 earned run night. Lucky a minor league team decided to fill in.

Yep

BluegrassRedleg
07-23-2012, 09:55 PM
Geez, Latos. Make a pitch, please. :(

Maker_84
07-23-2012, 09:55 PM
This is just too easy for a supposed AAA lineup

Literati
07-23-2012, 09:56 PM
Pepto Bismol time!

George Foster
07-23-2012, 09:56 PM
If Latos was going against the Cards, it would be a 6-7 earned run night. Lucky a minor league team decided to fill in.

I think the trade we did with the padres is a "push." A headcase for a headcase.

Neither one prepares themselves mentally to pitch ML baseball. Both have good stuff but not the mental edge.

Wonderful Monds
07-23-2012, 09:57 PM
Dusty! What are you waiting for!

The Rage
07-23-2012, 09:57 PM
Latos has smelled like a fart since the all-star break. Please spray some freebreeze in there or something like that.

The Rage
07-23-2012, 09:58 PM
I think the trade we did with the padres is a "push." A headcase for a headcase.

Neither one prepares themselves mentally to pitch ML baseball. Both have good stuff but not the mental edge.

I still hope he gets it together in future years. He is only 24. But leaving the big parks of the west has not been kind to him.

Literati
07-23-2012, 09:58 PM
Throw another breaking ball Latos

texasdave
07-23-2012, 10:00 PM
Bucs lose 2-0.

Stray
07-23-2012, 10:00 PM
It feels like it's been weeks since the Pirates lost.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 10:01 PM
I still hope he get it together in future years. He is only 24. But leaving the big parks of the west has not been kind to him.

Or the humidity...No humidity on the west coast....big difference. Ball stays up longer in the thick air.

Literati
07-23-2012, 10:02 PM
Come on dusty.....

Maker_84
07-23-2012, 10:02 PM
It feels like it's been weeks since the Pirates lost.

wont matter if the Reds dont win

BluegrassRedleg
07-23-2012, 10:02 PM
It feels like it's been weeks since the Pirates lost.

Welcome to 1992... or so it feels. :p

texasdave
07-23-2012, 10:02 PM
Another pop up with the bases loaded and two outs. Nice.

mrherd05
07-23-2012, 10:03 PM
Latos just reached down and grabbed a big ole hand ful of gutsy nutter butter for you yahoos....RECOGNIZE.

Great job Latos.

Larkin88
07-23-2012, 10:03 PM
Alright, big way to battle back there by Mat. He's not rolling along quite like he was right before the break, but that was a gutsy way to keep the lead. Picked the team up big time.

Time to play add-on.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 10:03 PM
Welcome to 1992... or so it feels. :p

Sid Bream says "hi":D

R_Webb18
07-23-2012, 10:03 PM
the good news is mat leg seemed okay after awhile

the bad it was not his best game tho

but were still in it atleast


edit maybe im wrong about the leg problem

Mutaman
07-23-2012, 10:04 PM
Astro announcers all over the iw but I liked the move, and it worked. Don't fool around with the left handed hitter.

texasdave
07-23-2012, 10:04 PM
Turn it over to the bullpen or let Latos go back to the mound? He is at 95 pitches.

Well that answers that. Cairo hitting for Latos.

BluegrassRedleg
07-23-2012, 10:06 PM
Sid Bream says "hi":D

Freakin' Jose Lind! :D

40YrRedsFan
07-23-2012, 10:06 PM
We need to add some runs.....it's embarrassing to be getting outhit by the AAA Astros

George Foster
07-23-2012, 10:07 PM
Freakin' Jose Lind! :D


These young wipper snapers don't have any idea what we are talking about:laugh:

texasdave
07-23-2012, 10:07 PM
When I heard the Astros were moving to a new league next year, I didn't think they meant the Pacific Coast League.

40YrRedsFan
07-23-2012, 10:08 PM
Work the count, Zach....first pitch swinging again:(

Stray
07-23-2012, 10:10 PM
couple of hard hit balls that didn't drop

40YrRedsFan
07-23-2012, 10:11 PM
Work the count, Zach....first pitch swinging again:(

Same with Phillips....geez

texasdave
07-23-2012, 10:12 PM
Jose Arredondo.

Maker_84
07-23-2012, 10:13 PM
hopefully the bp can get it done because i dont have much faith in the offense

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 10:14 PM
Freakin' Jose Lind! :D

Jose Lind was one of the 5 best 2nd baseman I've seen on defense.

Stray
07-23-2012, 10:19 PM
this strikezone is tiny

mrherd05
07-23-2012, 10:19 PM
wow, where are some of these pitches missing.

Literati
07-23-2012, 10:22 PM
Think the Reds will see Cordero tonight?

George Foster
07-23-2012, 10:24 PM
Jose Lind was one of the 5 best 2nd baseman I've seen on defense.

That series does not get the respect it deserves in history. It was a war between the pirates and braves.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 10:25 PM
Think the Reds will see Cordero tonight?

I saw his wife in the Reds hotel in Chicago...as Thom would say, "HOLY MOSES!!!":eek::eek:

The Rage
07-23-2012, 10:25 PM
That series does not get the respect it deserves in history. It was a war between the pirates and braves.

final gasp of the Pirates for a generation.

Red Raindog
07-23-2012, 10:25 PM
Rolen -- nice job!

Maybe I threw the dirt on him a little early

PumpFak3First
07-23-2012, 10:26 PM
Rolen has sort of stepped up like a veteran should

George Foster
07-23-2012, 10:27 PM
final gasp of the Pirates for a generation.

yep...they gutted that team...Bonds to San Fran, Bobby Bonnia to the Mets, and John Smiley to the Reds.

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 10:28 PM
That series does not get the respect it deserves in history. It was a war between the pirates and braves.

It was very good!

Stray
07-23-2012, 10:28 PM
That's great baserunning by both guys.

Red Raindog
07-23-2012, 10:29 PM
HC with a knock but Rolen is running in cement

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 10:30 PM
Going oppo works fellas.

Good team hitting tonight. Heisey should have 3 hits....but Brooks Robinson at 3rd got him.

Stray
07-23-2012, 10:30 PM
And then not very good baserunning lol.

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 10:37 PM
Jose Lind was one of the 5 best 2nd baseman I've seen on defense.

Brandon Phillips, Craig Biggio, Roberto Alomar, Joe Morgan, Ryan Sandberg, and Jeff Kent all better than Jose Lind, and that's just off the top off my head. Lind was very solid but by no means great.

Stray
07-23-2012, 10:37 PM
back to a 3 run lead, nice

Red Raindog
07-23-2012, 10:39 PM
Brandon Phillips, Craig Biggio, Roberto Alomar, Joe Morgan, Ryan Sandberg, and Jeff Kent all better than Jose Lind, and that's just off the top off my head. Lind was very solid but by no means great.

Maz - but I am old

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 10:40 PM
Maz - but I am old

Yeah... A lil old for me, I was a young buck just starting to follow baseball in the early 80's.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 10:43 PM
Brandon Phillips, Craig Biggio, Roberto Alomar, Joe Morgan, Ryan Sandberg, and Jeff Kent all better than Jose Lind, and that's just off the top off my head. Lind was very solid but by no means great.

Jeff Kent was not known for his defense by any stretch...never won a gold glove.
He made the plays he should of made and that's it. He was in the line up to hit.

The Rage
07-23-2012, 10:46 PM
Jeff Kent was not known for his defense by any stretch...never won a gold glove.
He made the plays he should of made and that's it. He was in the line up to hit.

Kent couldn't hold Lind's jock defensively.

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 10:48 PM
Yeah...I guess that wasn't the greatest choice, just trying to say that Lind isn't even in the top 10 in 2nd basemen

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 10:48 PM
Brandon Phillips, Craig Biggio, Roberto Alomar, Joe Morgan, Ryan Sandberg, and Jeff Kent all better than Jose Lind, and that's just off the top off my head. Lind was very solid but by no means great.

Lol.....Jeff Kent just completely negated your argument.

Lind was awesome with the glove.

Mutaman
07-23-2012, 10:49 PM
One of these days, Bray will get the job done. Maybe.

The Rage
07-23-2012, 10:49 PM
Mat Latos, 4th starter

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 10:50 PM
Lol.....Jeff Kent just completely negated your argument.

Lind was awesome with the glove.

Yeah...but top 5 ......come on man!!!!!

40YrRedsFan
07-23-2012, 10:50 PM
One of these days, Bray will get the job done. Maybe.

Time to cut bait with Bray......he's like Rick Ankiel, forgot how to throw strikes

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 10:51 PM
Yeah...I guess that wasn't the greatest choice, just trying to say that Lind isn't even in the top 10 in 2nd basemen

Defense man.....from 1985 and on. Maybe not my top 5 either but he was smooth like Tony Fernandez at SS

Alomar, Boone, Phillips....Sandberg

George Foster
07-23-2012, 10:51 PM
You don't need a big arm, but speed and guile is paramount. And some of the greatest players in history have called it their position. The 10 best second basemen in baseball history (note that Rod Carew is not eligible, as he played 54 more games at first base):
1. Rogers Hornsby
No list of the best hitters of all-time can't be without Hornsby, a great combination of power and average. He led the National League in doubles four times, in home runs twice, and his 289 career homers are second among second basemen all-time behind Jeff Kent. His 1922 season was incredible. He had a 33-game hitting streak and batted .401 with 42 homers and 152 RBI at age 26. He hit .424 two years later. Playing most of his career with the St. Louis Cardinals, Hornsby's career slugging percentage was .577 and his batting average was .358. He was a decent second baseman - he had some trouble with pop flies - but he had a .957 fielding percentage.



2. Eddie Collins
Played 25 seasons, a record for position players in the 20th century (1906-30), splitting them between the Philadelphia Athletics and Chicago White Sox. He hit better than .340 in 11 seasons, but never won a batting title (his career paralleled Ty Cobb's). Collins led the AL in stolen bases four times and in runs scored from 1912-14. He won the AL MVP award in 1914, hitting .344 with 85 RBI and 58 stolen bases. He had 3,315 hits, and his career average was .333, with 1,821 runs, 744 stolen bases and 1,300 RBI. And later as the Red Sox's general manager, Collins signed Bobby Doerr and Ted Williams.
3. Napoleon Lajoie
Nap Lajoie is an important player in baseball history, and not just because he was a .338 lifetime hitter. After compiling a .345 average in five seasons for the Philadelphia Phillies, his defection to the rival American League in 1901 paved the way for the modern major leagues, giving an upstart league a star. He hit .426 with 125 RBI that season for the Athletics. He was sent to the Cleveland franchise, now the Indians, which were briefly named the Naps in honor of him. He played entirely in the dead-ball era (1896-1916), but still had 83 homers, 1,599 RBI, 1,504 runs and 380 stolen bases. And, by all accounts, he was fabulous in the field.
4. Charlie Gehringer
Gehringer was a quiet man, and a machine of productivity at second base for the Detroit Tigers from 1924-42. He was a solid fielder, leading AL second basemen in fielding percentage nine times. And at the plate, he batted better than .300 in 13 seasons, leading the league in 1937 at age 34, hitting .371. He drove in 96 runs that season and won the AL MVP award. He played in the first six All-Star games. Only 18 players in big-league history scored more runs (1,774), and Gehringer won a World Series with the Tigers in 1935. In his career, he hit 184 homers, stole 181 bases and had a .320 lifetime average.
5. Jackie Robinson
The history of baseball can't be written without Robinson, who, of course, broke baseball's color barrier in 1947. His career stats are good - .311 career average, 134 home runs, 197 stolen bases - but the totals are hurt by the fact he didn't break into the majors until he was 28, playing just 10 seasons. The Brooklyn Dodgers star was voted MVP in 1949, when he hit .342 with 124 RBI and a majors-best 37 steals. He had a career .983 fielding percentage at second base as well, with great range. His No. 42 is retired by every major-league team because of what he meant to the game and to the civil rights movement.
6. Frankie Frisch
A true winner, Frisch starred for John McGraw's New York Giants, and from 1921 to 1926, he averaged better than 100 runs scored, never batted below .324 and led the Giants to four consecutive pennants from 1921-24. He was traded for Rogers Hornsby in 1926 in a blockbuster deal, and hit better than .300 for seven of the next eight seasons for the Cardinals. He played for four more pennant-winners with the Gas House Gang, where he also was player-manager and led the Cardinals to a World Series title in 1934. He finished with a .316 career average, 1,244 RBI and 419 stolen bases.
7. Joe Morgan
One of the pistons in the Big Red Machine, Morgan was small in stature (5-7, 160 pounds) but packed a lot of pop. He was third all-time in walks behind Babe Ruth and Ted Williams at the time of his retirement in 1986, and was also the only second baseman to win consecutive MVP awards (1975 and 1976), when the Reds won the World Series. He only drove in more than 100 runs once (111 in 1976) and never had more than 27 homers. His two MVP seasons were the only ones in which he hit .300. But he also stole 689 bases and was an unquestioned leader, leading four different teams to the playoffs after the age of 35.
8. Ryne Sandberg
Sandberg was a great hitter in 16 seasons with the Chicago Cubs, but he might have been an even better fielder. He had 89 consecutive errorless games in 1989, and his career fielding percentage of .989 is tied for the best all-time. He was a prototype of power and speed, hitting .285 lifetime with 282 homers, 1,061 RBI and 344 stolen bases in his career. In 1984, when the Cubs ended a 39-year playoff drought, he was named NL MVP when he hit .314 with 19 homers. And he was also the consummate professional, immensely popular in Chicago.
9. Roberto Alomar
He was the best of the 1990s, hitting for power and average, stealing bases and displaying a fielding range that might have been the best ever. He became a star on the Toronto Blue Jays' back-to-back title teams in 1992 and 1993. He never won another World Series, bouncing around from team to team as a highly paid free agent. He almost made it back to the World Series in stints with the Orioles and Indians. He finished with a .300 lifetime average, with 210 homers and 474 stolen bases. He also won 10 Gold Gloves.
10. Jeff Kent
He might be a product of an offense-heavy era, but no second baseman has more career homers than Kent, who retired after the 2008 season with 366 round-trippers. He had an underrated career, rarely considered the best at his position but among the most consistent hitters in the National League for the better part of a decade. He had his best years with the San Francisco Giants, winning the MVP award (controversially, over teammate Barry Bonds) when he hit .334 with 33 homers and a career-high 125 RBI. His 1,467 RBI in 17 seasons is only surpassed by Hornsby, Lajoie and Gehringer on this list. Next five: Craig Biggio, Bobby Doerr, Billy Herman, Lou Whitaker, Joe Gordon.

BluegrassRedleg
07-23-2012, 10:52 PM
Cards down 5-1 in the 8th.

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 10:52 PM
You don't need a big arm, but speed and guile is paramount. And some of the greatest players in history have called it their position. The 10 best second basemen in baseball history (note that Rod Carew is not eligible, as he played 54 more games at first base):
1. Rogers Hornsby
No list of the best hitters of all-time can't be without Hornsby, a great combination of power and average. He led the National League in doubles four times, in home runs twice, and his 289 career homers are second among second basemen all-time behind Jeff Kent. His 1922 season was incredible. He had a 33-game hitting streak and batted .401 with 42 homers and 152 RBI at age 26. He hit .424 two years later. Playing most of his career with the St. Louis Cardinals, Hornsby's career slugging percentage was .577 and his batting average was .358. He was a decent second baseman - he had some trouble with pop flies - but he had a .957 fielding percentage.



2. Eddie Collins
Played 25 seasons, a record for position players in the 20th century (1906-30), splitting them between the Philadelphia Athletics and Chicago White Sox. He hit better than .340 in 11 seasons, but never won a batting title (his career paralleled Ty Cobb's). Collins led the AL in stolen bases four times and in runs scored from 1912-14. He won the AL MVP award in 1914, hitting .344 with 85 RBI and 58 stolen bases. He had 3,315 hits, and his career average was .333, with 1,821 runs, 744 stolen bases and 1,300 RBI. And later as the Red Sox's general manager, Collins signed Bobby Doerr and Ted Williams.
3. Napoleon Lajoie
Nap Lajoie is an important player in baseball history, and not just because he was a .338 lifetime hitter. After compiling a .345 average in five seasons for the Philadelphia Phillies, his defection to the rival American League in 1901 paved the way for the modern major leagues, giving an upstart league a star. He hit .426 with 125 RBI that season for the Athletics. He was sent to the Cleveland franchise, now the Indians, which were briefly named the Naps in honor of him. He played entirely in the dead-ball era (1896-1916), but still had 83 homers, 1,599 RBI, 1,504 runs and 380 stolen bases. And, by all accounts, he was fabulous in the field.
4. Charlie Gehringer
Gehringer was a quiet man, and a machine of productivity at second base for the Detroit Tigers from 1924-42. He was a solid fielder, leading AL second basemen in fielding percentage nine times. And at the plate, he batted better than .300 in 13 seasons, leading the league in 1937 at age 34, hitting .371. He drove in 96 runs that season and won the AL MVP award. He played in the first six All-Star games. Only 18 players in big-league history scored more runs (1,774), and Gehringer won a World Series with the Tigers in 1935. In his career, he hit 184 homers, stole 181 bases and had a .320 lifetime average.
5. Jackie Robinson
The history of baseball can't be written without Robinson, who, of course, broke baseball's color barrier in 1947. His career stats are good - .311 career average, 134 home runs, 197 stolen bases - but the totals are hurt by the fact he didn't break into the majors until he was 28, playing just 10 seasons. The Brooklyn Dodgers star was voted MVP in 1949, when he hit .342 with 124 RBI and a majors-best 37 steals. He had a career .983 fielding percentage at second base as well, with great range. His No. 42 is retired by every major-league team because of what he meant to the game and to the civil rights movement.
6. Frankie Frisch
A true winner, Frisch starred for John McGraw's New York Giants, and from 1921 to 1926, he averaged better than 100 runs scored, never batted below .324 and led the Giants to four consecutive pennants from 1921-24. He was traded for Rogers Hornsby in 1926 in a blockbuster deal, and hit better than .300 for seven of the next eight seasons for the Cardinals. He played for four more pennant-winners with the Gas House Gang, where he also was player-manager and led the Cardinals to a World Series title in 1934. He finished with a .316 career average, 1,244 RBI and 419 stolen bases.
7. Joe Morgan
One of the pistons in the Big Red Machine, Morgan was small in stature (5-7, 160 pounds) but packed a lot of pop. He was third all-time in walks behind Babe Ruth and Ted Williams at the time of his retirement in 1986, and was also the only second baseman to win consecutive MVP awards (1975 and 1976), when the Reds won the World Series. He only drove in more than 100 runs once (111 in 1976) and never had more than 27 homers. His two MVP seasons were the only ones in which he hit .300. But he also stole 689 bases and was an unquestioned leader, leading four different teams to the playoffs after the age of 35.
8. Ryne Sandberg
Sandberg was a great hitter in 16 seasons with the Chicago Cubs, but he might have been an even better fielder. He had 89 consecutive errorless games in 1989, and his career fielding percentage of .989 is tied for the best all-time. He was a prototype of power and speed, hitting .285 lifetime with 282 homers, 1,061 RBI and 344 stolen bases in his career. In 1984, when the Cubs ended a 39-year playoff drought, he was named NL MVP when he hit .314 with 19 homers. And he was also the consummate professional, immensely popular in Chicago.
9. Roberto Alomar
He was the best of the 1990s, hitting for power and average, stealing bases and displaying a fielding range that might have been the best ever. He became a star on the Toronto Blue Jays' back-to-back title teams in 1992 and 1993. He never won another World Series, bouncing around from team to team as a highly paid free agent. He almost made it back to the World Series in stints with the Orioles and Indians. He finished with a .300 lifetime average, with 210 homers and 474 stolen bases. He also won 10 Gold Gloves.
10. Jeff Kent
He might be a product of an offense-heavy era, but no second baseman has more career homers than Kent, who retired after the 2008 season with 366 round-trippers. He had an underrated career, rarely considered the best at his position but among the most consistent hitters in the National League for the better part of a decade. He had his best years with the San Francisco Giants, winning the MVP award (controversially, over teammate Barry Bonds) when he hit .334 with 33 homers and a career-high 125 RBI. His 1,467 RBI in 17 seasons is only surpassed by Hornsby, Lajoie and Gehringer on this list. Next five: Craig Biggio, Bobby Doerr, Billy Herman, Lou Whitaker, Joe Gordon.

Nice copy and paste job from google!!!

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 10:52 PM
I was only speaking defense from 1985-

Defense

BluegrassRedleg
07-23-2012, 10:53 PM
Super-cool moment for Ichiro in first Yankee AB at Seattle. Fans give him a long standing O. Ichiro bows in respect, then knocks to center field, steals second base. :)

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 10:53 PM
Defense...not offense or whole package

Kcbuckeye22
07-23-2012, 10:53 PM
Deputy Sam takes the mound to lay down the Law.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 10:53 PM
Nice copy and paste job from google!!!

information is priceless....just wanted to educate:D

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 10:54 PM
Super-cool moment for Ichiro in first Yankee AB at Seattle. Fans give him a long standing O. Ichiro bows in respect, then knocks to center field, steals second base. :)

That's awesome....and everyone on here that can't read caused me to miss it! Aargh

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 10:55 PM
That's awesome....and everyone on here that can't read caused me to miss it! Aargh

Nice shot.....but no where in your original post did I see 1985!!!!!!!

mrherd05
07-23-2012, 10:55 PM
Mat Latos, 4th starter


Behind who??????:confused:

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 10:56 PM
Nice copy and paste job from google!!!

Morgan at #7 is funny and Alomar at #9 is hilarious.

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 10:56 PM
information is priceless....just wanted to educate:D

Good find tho!!!

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 10:57 PM
Nice shot.....but no where in your original post did I see 1985!!!!!!!

You saw defense and put Kent.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 10:57 PM
Behind who??????:confused:

Does anybody here want to start him in a playoff series? I don't.. I start Cueto, Bailey, and Arroyo.

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 10:58 PM
You saw defense and put Kent.

Like I said....he wasn't the best example.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 10:58 PM
Good find tho!!!

Kent was listed as 10th overall...so you were half right:thumbup:

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 10:59 PM
Kent was listed as 10th overall...so you were half right:thumbup:

Thanks!!!

The Rage
07-23-2012, 10:59 PM
Behind who??????:confused:

Behind Cueto,Leake and Arroyo

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 11:00 PM
Behind Cueto,Leake and Arroyo

No on Arroyo... I would take Latos, just my opinion

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 11:01 PM
Phillips having a good game

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:01 PM
Phillips with another hit, 3 on the night. Love seeing him step up without Votto.

Mutaman
07-23-2012, 11:01 PM
I had hoped the Yankees would get tired of paying the revenue sharing bucks and come back to the pack. This Ichiro move blows that idea. Hopefully they don't have enough pitching and they won't add any.

The Rage
07-23-2012, 11:01 PM
No on Arroyo... I would take Latos, just my opinion

Latos hasn't had a quality start since the ASB and his performance outside a 3 game string, has been not so great. We need to be honest about Mat. He has been disappointing. Instead of the clear cut number 2, we have a 4.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:01 PM
No on Arroyo... I would take Latos, just my opinion

Latos has shutout stuff but man...you don't know what your getting from start to start. Can he contrl his emotions? You can't afford to give a game away in a playoff series. Hard decision.

Mutaman
07-23-2012, 11:02 PM
Phillips having a good game

Phillips having a good season.

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 11:02 PM
Speaking of doubles.....Votto's injury rules out any chance of him breaking the doubles record.

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:02 PM
Phillips having a good season.

Yep

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:03 PM
Latos hasn't had a quality start since the ASB and his performance outside a 3 game string, has been not so great. We need to be honest about Mat. He has been disappointing. Instead of the clear cut number 2, we have a 4.

+1...

Maker_84
07-23-2012, 11:03 PM
great to see other hitters making plays now

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 11:03 PM
Phillips having a good season.

That he is!

Mutaman
07-23-2012, 11:04 PM
Actually phillips is having a good career. But he needs a ring.

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:04 PM
Does anybody here want to start him in a playoff series? I don't.. I start Cueto, Bailey, and Arroyo.

I'd start Latos over Arroyo.

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 11:04 PM
Keep being great Brandon but get your butt home.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:05 PM
great to see other hitters making plays now

I lost sleep about this offense after Votto went down..but man have they stepped up...wow, just wow.

Maker_84
07-23-2012, 11:05 PM
I'd start Latos over Arroyo.

yes, arroyo is an average pitcher but he's the best 5 in baseball

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:05 PM
One of our soft throwers will start in a playoff series if we get there. Dusty wants to break up the 3 hard throwers with the two soft throwers.

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 11:05 PM
I'd start Latos over Arroyo.

Same here. You could say that you don't know what ur gonna get from Arroyo also, but without the shutout stuff.

The Rage
07-23-2012, 11:06 PM
Reds playoff rotation right now is probably Arroyo,Cueto and Leake.

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 11:06 PM
Reds playoff rotation right now is probably Arroyo,Cueto and Leake.

.????????

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:07 PM
Reds playoff rotation right now is probably Arroyo,Cueto and Leake.

No love for Bailey...really???? Over Leake.. come on Bro!!!

Maker_84
07-23-2012, 11:07 PM
i think its safe to say this game is in the win column now. 1.5 games in first!

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:07 PM
Same here. You could say that you don't know what ur gonna get from Arroyo also, but without the shutout stuff.

Bingo

Mutaman
07-23-2012, 11:08 PM
I might have been wrong about this Ludwig guy.

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:08 PM
I would guess Cueto-Arroyo-Bailey/Latos (whoever is on a roll then).

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:08 PM
If it were up to me I'd go Cueto-Bailey-Latos, but I understand why you want to break up similar pitchers.

The Rage
07-23-2012, 11:09 PM
No love for Bailey...really???? Over Leake.. come on Bro!!!

Bailey lives off the defense. You need guys that can get ground balls or miss bats. Latos would be my 4th starter if they made it to the NLCS.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:09 PM
I might have been wrong about this Ludwig guy.

ah....he's making money....for next years contract...:thumbup:

Who Dey Time
07-23-2012, 11:09 PM
Behind Cueto,Leake and Arroyo

At this point a mea culpa about Bailey would be appropriate. To insinuate that he is our #5 starter at this point is just bad comedy.

dubc47834
07-23-2012, 11:10 PM
Bailey lives off the defense. You need guys that can get ground balls or miss bats. Latos would be my 4th starter if they made it to the NLCS.

Ummmm....so does Cueto man. You just don't like Bailey.

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:10 PM
ah....he's making money....for next years contract...:thumbup:

What's his option for next year? Gotta think we'll pick it up.

Mutaman
07-23-2012, 11:10 PM
I think the Brewers are officially sellers. Couldn't happen to a nicer team.

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:11 PM
Haha Lecure finally gets an AB and gets plunked.

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 11:11 PM
Captain double switch pulls Heisey and then LeCure bats the next inning.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:11 PM
Bailey lives off the defense. You need guys that can get ground balls or miss bats. Latos would be my 4th starter if they made it to the NLCS.

Don't they have more than one travel day? I might be wrong but for tv they might have an extra travel day to make sure they have an extra weekend game scheduled.

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:11 PM
I would guess Cueto-Arroyo-Bailey/Latos (whoever is on a roll then).


If it were up to me I'd go Cueto-Bailey-Latos, but I understand why you want to break up similar pitchers.

Why not plan on a four man starting rotation with Leake as long man out of the pen if someone gets hurt or has a bad outing?

Who Dey Time
07-23-2012, 11:11 PM
Captain double switch pulls Heisey and then LeCure bats the next inning.

Why waste another bullpen arm when you're up 5?

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 11:12 PM
Cueto, Arroyo and then whoever is better then between Homer and Latos

Ironman92
07-23-2012, 11:13 PM
Why waste another bullpen arm when you're up 5?

Why double switch with Bray as the pitcher?

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:13 PM
Why not plan on a four man starting rotation with Leake as long man out of the pen if someone gets hurt or has a bad outing?

That would make a lot of sense. Unnecessary with the playoff format, but probably the best option for our team.

A lot of it will also depend on how the series goes. If we are down and need a win I would assume Cueto pitches game 4.

The Rage
07-23-2012, 11:13 PM
Don't they have more than one travel day? I might be wrong but for tv they might have an extra travel day to make sure they have an extra weekend game scheduled.

They might now. That would just put Latos as the 4th starter. The only way Bailey makes it is if they tell Leake he is done.

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:13 PM
StL has narrowed the gap with the Dodgers, its' 5-3 headed into the bottom of the 9th.

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:14 PM
We've had a couple of ugly slides tonight.

Who Dey Time
07-23-2012, 11:14 PM
Why double switch with Bray as the pitcher?

I assume it's because you were still in a game. I just got home so I didn't see that move.

Mutaman
07-23-2012, 11:16 PM
Its officially a laugher.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:16 PM
save some for tomorrow night boys...runs might be hard to come by...

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:16 PM
We've had a couple of ugly slides tonight.

Phillips' looked really bad, particularly for him. Wonder if it's the infield in Minute Maid?

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:17 PM
Phillips' looked really bad, particularly for him. Wonder if it's the infield in Minute Maid?

Could be, it's like they're trying to slide in sand. They just stop lol.

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:18 PM
Could be, it's like they're trying to slide in sand. They just stop lol.

Surprised they're not leaving a furrow deep enough to plant corn in!

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:19 PM
Phillips' looked really bad, particularly for him. Wonder if it's the infield in Minute Maid?

that might be just it. I take care of our baseball field for my sons team. The more hot sun it gets the more "powder" the dirt becomes, making it easier to slide. That dirt rarely see the sun light in minutemaid park.

Falcon7
07-23-2012, 11:21 PM
Speaking of doubles.....Votto's injury rules out any chance of him breaking the doubles record.

And almost any hope of another MVP.

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:21 PM
that might be just it. I take care of our baseball field for my sons team. The more hot sun it gets the more "powder" the dirt becomes, making it easier to slide. That dirt rarely see the sun light in minutemaid park.

The field I play on is turning into a dustbowl - big clouds of dust being kicked up all the time and any breeze swirls sand into your eyes. The outfield grass is so crisp now, there are lots of strange kicks and hops on balls hit out there.

texasdave
07-23-2012, 11:22 PM
Defense...not offense or whole package

Pokey Reese circa 1999. Best second base defense I ever witnessed. He used to play in short right on the astroturf and take away base hits left and right.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:23 PM
The field I play on is turning into a dustbowl - big clouds of dust being kicked up all the time and any breeze swirls sand into your eyes. The outfield grass is so crisp now, there are lots of strange kicks and hops on balls hit out there.

we have been lucky in central ky. It was hot and dry from June 15-July15ish. We have got 7 inches of rain the last 11 days. I mowed on thursday and will mow again tomorrow.

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:23 PM
Good to see more and more Reds fans out at the ballparks when the Reds are on the road.

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:23 PM
we have been lucky in central ky. It was hot and dry from June 15-July15ish. We have got 7 inches of rain the last 11 days. I mowed on thursday and will mow again tomorrow.

I honestly do not remember the last time I mowed my lawn.

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:24 PM
Dodgers beat the Cardinals

mrherd05
07-23-2012, 11:26 PM
Behind Cueto,Leake and Arroyo

Wow....i dont even believe that you believe that.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:26 PM
Dodgers beat the Cardinals

Dodgers might sweep the Cards...glad we are not playing them.

The Rage
07-23-2012, 11:26 PM
Come on sammie baby, just throw the rock down broadway. These chumps will get easy outs.

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:27 PM
Hmm, might be time for Simon

The Rage
07-23-2012, 11:28 PM
Wow....i dont even believe that you believe that.

Cueto is the only "sure" bet but Leake and Arroyo have been more consistant. Mat is the 4th guy so if the Reds make the NLCS or they need 4 starters, he will be right there.

malcontent
07-23-2012, 11:30 PM
I think the trade we did with the padres is a "push." A headcase for a headcase.
I'd say the three 1st rounders that accompanied Voltron to SD tip the balance just a bit.....

:(

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:31 PM
I'd say the three 1st rounders that accompanied Voltron to SD tip the balance just a bit.....

:(

your right...i was just talking about Valquez vs. Lateos

Mutaman
07-23-2012, 11:32 PM
Really disappointing effort by Sam. Braylike.

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:32 PM
Lecure is trying to make a mess of things.

The Rage
07-23-2012, 11:33 PM
Come on Sam. For crying out loud. Just horrible pitching.

texasdave
07-23-2012, 11:33 PM
Speaking of doubles.....Votto's injury rules out any chance of him breaking the doubles record.

I would think the club record is still in sight. Major league record is out of play now. Votto has 36. Club record is 51.

mrherd05
07-23-2012, 11:34 PM
wow, wow, wow...it is pretty clear that if we go with a three man rotation we will go with Cueto, Homer and Latos

Who Dey Time
07-23-2012, 11:35 PM
wow, wow, wow...it is pretty clear that if we go with a three man rotation we will go with Cueto, Homer and Latos

This.

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:35 PM
I think the trade we did with the padres is a "push." A headcase for a headcase.

Neither one prepares themselves mentally to pitch ML baseball. Both have good stuff but not the mental edge.

Volquez is 6-7 and Latos is about to go to 8-3.

Headcase Latos is still better than headcase Volquez.

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:35 PM
That's a nice play by Cozart

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:37 PM
Are there 5 people at the game? You can hear whenever anyone says anything.

The Rage
07-23-2012, 11:37 PM
Volquez is 6-7 and Latos is about to go to 8-3.

Headcase Latos is still better than headcase Volquez.

Records don't mean much. Latos has been lucky to win as much as he has. Volquez adjusted away from Petco may be no better than Mat, but considering we gave up 2 top hitting prospects and a top bullpen prospect, the Padres have the advantage early on.

malcontent
07-23-2012, 11:39 PM
I wish Marshall had a changeup.

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:42 PM
Ludwick makes sure to give the ball to the kid in the Reds hat - nice!

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:42 PM
Might get to a 4 hour game tonight.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:43 PM
Might get to a 4 hour game tonight.

Marty just LOVES 4 hour games.....i bet he is having a ball in the booth...:laugh:

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:44 PM
Lol true, he's gotta be loving this.

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:50 PM
Thought that was going to drop in - nice play there.

Stray
07-23-2012, 11:50 PM
Making a pitching change? Cmon man

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:51 PM
why?? 2 outs ...pitching change??

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:51 PM
Making a pitching change? Cmon man

Constant pitching changes are a big reason games drag on so much these days.

George Foster
07-23-2012, 11:53 PM
Constant pitching changes are a big reason games drag on so much these days.

Fox sports St. Louis misses Larussa...more commercials:laugh:

Tadasimha
07-23-2012, 11:56 PM
Fox sports St. Louis misses Larussa...more commercials:laugh:

The Houston affiliate must be loving Brad Mills!

Mutaman
07-24-2012, 12:00 AM
We finally found a role for Marshall that he's comfortable in.

Stray
07-24-2012, 12:02 AM
Not sure if Welsh is more annoyed at the length of this game or the Astros not really caring.

40YrRedsFan
07-24-2012, 12:02 AM
A very profitable night....everyone in the Central Division has lost except the Cubs

Stray
07-24-2012, 12:04 AM
1 minute shy of a 4 hour game.

dang

Tadasimha
07-24-2012, 12:04 AM
1 minute shy of a 4 hour game.

dang

Told ya to take the under! :laugh:

malcontent
07-24-2012, 12:05 AM
Nice job by Marshall.

40YrRedsFan
07-24-2012, 12:05 AM
1 1/2 game lead now; Cards now 6 back:thumbup:

Tadasimha
07-24-2012, 12:05 AM
1 1/2 game lead now; Cards now 6 back:thumbup:

:beerme:

Mutaman
07-24-2012, 12:06 AM
Finally.

3. Ludwick

2. Frazier

And the #1 star is that old guy who plays second base.

Goats: Bray, LeCure, and maybe Latos.

Falcon7
07-24-2012, 12:12 AM
Hyper extended knee for Latos.