My take

[mrherd05]

We are winning:

With Stubbs struggling, a YOUNG Stubbs struggling
With a semi struggling Bruce, a YOUNG Bruce
With the top of the lineup hitting well under .250, both very young

We are winning, and winning at nearly the best pace in the entire league, with all of these alleged "issues"

Stubbs and Bruce are ONLY going to get better, we have seen what they "can be"

Why make a change now.

I am not the type that likes to play for later. But in this case, we can play for NOW and for LATER by continuing to sign what we have right now.

This team is set for dynasty material right here, right now.

not everyone hits .280 or better, that is just the way it is.

Im ready for a fun ride, i hope we dont make any moves outside of maybe DFI'ing Cairo and trading some minor leaguers for a left handed bat.

[Maker_84]

Stubbs and Bruce aren't that young anymore

[mrherd05]

27 and 25 are still young

[Jefferson24]

I fairly strong case can be made that as long as they have been in the league it is unlikely that we will see either get a great deal better than they are now. There is some expectation from me for small improvements but nothing major.

That being the case I am glad for the success the Reds have had this year despite the lack of offensive dominance we would like.

[Jefferson24]

double post...stupid work computer

[webbbj]

they really havent been consistently improving is the problem. Seems like everytime either of them take a step foward they are soon to take another step backward.

[The_Mudshark]

27 and 25 are still young

27 is still young if you got called up last year... :bang:

Both of them have been in the show long enough to start displaying consistency, but I am not ready to cut them, either.

[smixsell]

they really havent been consistently improving is the problem. Seems like everytime either of them take a step foward they are soon to take another step backward.

Yep. But that will likely change when they get new coaching and management IMO. I just hope it happens here rather than with another club.

I say keep them both and get a new manager and hitting coach. :o)

[R_Webb18]

Yep. But that will likely change when they get new coaching and management IMO. I just hope it happens here rather than with another club.

I say keep them both and get a new manager and hitting coach. :o)

lol no

[BluegrassRedleg]

27 and 25 are still young

27 is widely considered the prime year for productivity. Don't think it can fall into the "young" window.

[Ironman92]

Bruce 2461 career plate appearances

Stubbs 1784 career plate appearances.

Both are doing progressively worse since 2010. Right now....both are what they are. We win with them....we win without them. Bruce has done far more to help us win...but his increased gaffes on defense and on the bases along with worsening numbers....

Stubbs looked pretty serviceable 1,000 at bats ago. Right now he's deserving of playing against lefties. The guy has never ever been benched for lack of production and his numbers the past 850 AB are abysmal. I'd like to see the list of players that have made more outs than Drew Stubbs in the last season and a half.

We are winning because of pitching and defense. We are not good on offense and often stink when we need the timely hit. Can't bunt and baserunning is lower tier.

[P.E.R#14]

Bruce's numbers have been up and down, but Stubbs' offensive stats have been on a steady decline since he broke into the league. He sure is fast though! :laugh:

[Ironman92]

As for improving....the Steelers won the SB a couple years back and had 2 horrible lineman and the it's likely that every WS champion ever had some weaker links.....so yes the Reds could go all the way. They have the pitching in tact right now (but it MUST be during the playoffs).....our defense is good enough but to me winning in the playoffs is pitching, timely hitting and defense. Our timely hitting is very suspect but it can pick up if this team works the count consistently and goes oppo! We rely on the homers which works at home but that cannot be their approach at SF, LA, Wash, Atlanta

It there to be....this team has enough of "it".....if you KNOW a move HAS to improve you...do it. Don't make moves just to make moves.

[Trajinous]

Bruce is good. The only reason people are upset with his production is because of all the hype he had as a rookie. If Bruce wasn't hype'd and produced the numbers he had, he would be beloved. I just don't understand how people bash Bruce so frequently.

[redssince75]

With a semi struggling Bruce, a YOUNG Bruce


Who is this young Bruce that you speak of? I have been watching the Jay Bruce who plays for the Cincinnati Reds for many, many years.

[Ironman92]

Bruce is good. The only reason people are upset with his production is because of all the hype he had as a rookie. If Bruce wasn't hype'd and produced the numbers he had, he would be beloved. I just don't understand how people bash Bruce so frequently.

Nope...his rookie year at age 21 was a .767 OPS and much of what he is now.....BUT after his sophomore slump he was a good .848 OPS as a 23 year old and played excellent defense...with some baserunning gaffes.....we like mucho!

The last two years his OPS is declining and his mental mistakes and bobbles have increased. I like him and I believe most do....but he's got to buckle down mentally and stay more focused throughout games.....yes everyone makes mistakes and he's a good deal for his contract...but he's better than that and he's proved it.

[The_Mudshark]

Bruce is good. The only reason people are upset with his production is because of all the hype he had as a rookie. If Bruce wasn't hype'd and produced the numbers he had, he would be beloved. I just don't understand how people bash Bruce so frequently.

Adequate might work better there. He is over-hyped, but that can't give him a pass - he even said himself that he wasn't meeting expectations this season.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Adequate is a decent word. Lots of peaks and valleys leave him there.

[Jamz]

Bruce is an above average player. Right now that's all I expect of him because that's all he's shown to be at the major league level.

[Trajinous]

Adequate is a decent word. Lots of peaks and valleys leave him there.

He's more than adequate since he's had a positive WAR ever since he made the majors. Is it as much as we hope? No, but his numbers are above average and his streaks are legendary. At the age of 25, he is still developing.

Imagine if Stubbs was batting Bruce's line...244/19 Hr/60 Rbi/.322 Obp/.813 Ops He wouldn't be the resident Reds whipping boy.

[R_Webb18]

Bruce is an above average player. Right now that's all I expect of him because that's all he's shown to be at the major league level.

agree he's not great or terrible. kinda in the middle. even tho he does not hit the greatest pitchers still do not like to pitch to him.

[Krawhitham]

27 and 25 are still young

no

Peak baseball age is 27

[Trajinous]

I dont think peak baseball is at 27 anymore. It seems like it's later around 30 and then depends on durability from there. Medical medicine is impressive

[mrherd05]

Bruce is a two time all star, with his most recent trip being two and a half weeks ago.

Like i said, not everyone in a lineup hits 280 or better. Bruce has over 60 RBI's on a team that struggles to score runs.

Stubbs in on pace to steal 40 bases and we win nearly every single game he scores...Kelch says so.

[IamRV]

He's more than adequate since he's had a positive WAR ever since he made the majors. Is it as much as we hope? No, but his numbers are above average and his streaks are legendary. At the age of 25, he is still developing.

Imagine if Stubbs was batting Bruce's line...244/19 Hr/60 Rbi/.322 Obp/.813 Ops He wouldn't be the resident Reds whipping boy.

If Stubbs just had 10% fewer strikeouts that were walks instead, he'd be OPS'ing over .350 and we wouldn't be having these convos about trading for a CF'er.

['69]

If Stubbs just had 10% fewer strikeouts that were walks instead, he'd be OPS'ing over .350 and we wouldn't be having these convos about trading for a CF'er.

Excellent point. But it seems like it's the staff who instills the plate approach, which with with few exceptions, is not one of patience.

Also the age thing is so overrated, human beings mature both physically and emotionally at different ages.

[webbbj]

Bruce is good. The only reason people are upset with his production is because of all the hype he had as a rookie. If Bruce wasn't hype'd and produced the numbers he had, he would be beloved. I just don't understand how people bash Bruce so frequently.

i think you answered your own question. Its all about expectations. We as a fanbase expected 40 hrs and a .300+ avg and hes not producing that

[Ironman92]

i think you answered your own question. Its all about expectations. We as a fanbase expected 40 hrs and a .300+ avg and hes not producing that

I expect 32/104 .270/.340/.500/.840 his 2010 defense, near flawless baserunning and selling out for the team every time the opportunity rises.....so he's close to my needs.

[OldCat]

i think you answered your own question. Its all about expectations. We as a fanbase expected 40 hrs and a .300+ avg and hes not producing that


It looks like the Red's own outlook is to look at first defense and pitching and smart play and only then worry too much about perfect hitting. We had the mashers 5-7 years ago and it didn't work out.

So far, taking a ding on OBP hasn't hurt that badly this year. And its probably best addressed in the offseason rather than in a pennant race.