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View Full Version : do you think the Reds have any untouchables?



icehole3
07-25-2012, 07:55 PM
:)

Anyone you think that they feel in the whole organization thats off limits as we get closer to the trade deadline?

1. Votto
2. Chapman
3. Cueto

Any others?

Mario-Rijo
07-25-2012, 08:00 PM
I'd think Hamilton and Stephenson would be.

reds1869
07-25-2012, 08:23 PM
I think the list of true untouchables begins and ends with Joey Votto. Anyone else could be had in the right deal.

George Anderson
07-25-2012, 08:41 PM
With his age and contract, I would say Latos.

RedsManRick
07-25-2012, 09:11 PM
I think the list of true untouchables begins and ends with Joey Votto. Anyone else could be had in the right deal.

Agreed. Billy Hamilton is at the top of my trade list. He'll never have as much trade value as he has right now.

mattfeet
07-25-2012, 09:17 PM
Agreed. Billy Hamilton is at the top of my trade list. He'll never have as much trade value as he has right now.

I agree 110%

klw
07-25-2012, 09:25 PM
I think Mez is close to untouchable as there is no one really coming along for a year or two that could replace him.

Vottomatic
07-25-2012, 09:27 PM
The starting pitching staff is untouchable unless someone like Stanton gets offered. It really depends on who the other team offers. If they offer a budding superstar like a Stanton......the list pretty gets trimmed to Votto for the most part.

Benihana
07-25-2012, 09:34 PM
Votto, Cueto, Latos, (and realistically) Phillips

I think Walt would listen on anyone else in the right deal

Ghosts of 1990
07-25-2012, 09:35 PM
Just Joey Votto

Joseph
07-25-2012, 09:46 PM
There are a handful of players I'd rather not trade, but much like there is no such thing as a pitching prospect, there is no such thing as untouchable.

Dan
07-25-2012, 11:30 PM
Votto is untouchable (meaning a really stupid, Herschal Walker type offer from another team could get him)

I'd have to be overwhelmed to trade:
Cueto
Latos
Chapman

I'd only trade Hamilton in a deal for someone like Stanton or Trumbo.

If I trade Cingrani, I keep Corcino. And vice-versa.

Everyone else is available.

nate
07-25-2012, 11:30 PM
No one is untouchable.

dougdirt
07-25-2012, 11:38 PM
To me, no. No one is untouchable.

To the Reds? I imagine Votto, Cueto, Bruce, Phillips, Billy Hamilton, Mat Latos, Aroldis Chapman and at this point, Homer Bailey are on their untouchable list.

Robert Stephenson was mentioned earlier by someone, but he can't be traded this season anyways by rule, so he won't be moved, though I guess he could be a PTBNL but I also imagine he would be on their list. He has been downright dominating so far this season, has shown good ability to throw strikes with two plus pitches at age 19.

camisadelgolf
07-26-2012, 05:42 PM
Rolen, Votto, and Arroyo have no-trade clauses. Madson and Masset are both on the 60-day disabled list, so they aren't going anywhere. As for everyone else? I just don't see Bruce, Cueto, or Phillips going anywhere. And unless you're getting back Giancarlo Stanton--which isn't happening--Chapman isn't going anywhere either.

Edd Roush
07-26-2012, 05:56 PM
Count me in as another poster who does not believe that any Red should be untouchable.

That being said, I doubt the Reds are proposing any trades that include Votto, Phillips, Bruce, Mesoraco, Cueto, Latos, Hamilton, or Corcino.

corkedbat
07-26-2012, 05:56 PM
If the LAD offered me Matt Kemp, Andy Either and Clayton Kershaw for Joey, I'd have to seriously consider it. Short of something outlandish like that though, he is untouchable. Cueto is second, but not that close. I would not give Chapman away, but could think of several circumstances where I'd seriously consider dealing him.

After those three, Hamilton and Corcino are probably next (mainly because of their talent combined with the fct they'll be relatvely cheap for years to come), but if I could deal one for a huge return and cut back on the number of bodies I had to give up, I could probably think of more than just a few instances where I'd deal them.

There are some like Bruce that I don't really think are that untouchable, but if I did del them, I would have to go out and find someone just like them because there are no comparables waiting in the wings on the farm.

medford
07-26-2012, 06:02 PM
Of course there is no such thing as an untouchable player, any player is available in the right deal (precluding no trade clauses, 10/5 rights, etc..) We all know that disclaimer, however there are several players that you're not going to see a significant enough return on in the FA market to upgrade the team right now:

Joe Votto
Johnny Cueto
Aroldis Chapman
Jay Bruce
Brandon Phillips
Sean Marshall

then there's the guys who are a step below, but could be flipped for a more expensive (and similar) version of themselves plus another player that could help the ML squad today:

Homer Bailey
Mike Leake For either I'm thinking something along the lines of Jamie Shields, plus something else.

That leaves:
Ludwick, doubt you'd get much for him
Rolen, doubt anyone else would actually want him, would be a bad PR move
Arroyo, nobody is taking on that contract at this point
Cairo & Valdez, seriously a warm bag of balls is all you'd get for either.

that leaves the rest of the bullpen (Arrodondo, Ondrusek and Bray perhaps being the most likely to fetch something), Heisey & Stubbs.

As far as the minors goes, my guess is only Hamilton is untouchable to the organization. Corcino or Cigrani are probably available in the right deal, but not both.

then you've got Lutzkar, Didi, Lutz, etc.. as trading chips from the minors.

camisadelgolf
07-26-2012, 06:07 PM
If the LAD offered me Matt Kemp, Andy Either and Clayton Kershaw for Joey, I'd have to seriously consider it. Short of something outlandish like that though, he is untouchable. Cueto is second, but not that close. I would not give Chapman away, but could think of several circumstances where I'd seriously consider dealing him.
You'd have to consider it? I'd be doing cartwheels if that trade went through. But Joey isn't going anywhere until he wants to. He's the face of the Reds and has a no-trade clause. But if you get an offer like that from the Dodgers, you don't even bring it up to him because the answer is "no" and would only create bad blood.

PickOff
07-26-2012, 06:36 PM
No one is untouchable.

If this were the offseason, I would agree with you. But the Reds lead the division and are playing well. It would make little sense to trade the Reds' stars who are playing well at this point. Trading team leaders would be risking this season too much; I can't imagine any team offering anything worth it.

I don't think anyone in the minors is, or should be, untouchable. I would be happy to see Walt trade the farm, and any of our outfielders save Bruce for a stud outfield bat.

HokieRed
07-26-2012, 07:56 PM
My untouchable list would be Bailey, Cueto, Votto, and Chapman

AtomicDumpling
07-26-2012, 09:27 PM
Nobody is untouchable in my opinion. Everybody has a price. Everybody is replaceable.

How much trade value would you guys think Joey Votto would have right now? I actually think he would have very little trade value because of his contract. Any team that acquires him would be committing themselves to pay him $250 million so I doubt they would be willing to throw in some talented players on top of that. The only way the Reds could get anything for Votto is if they agree to pay some of his contract as part of the deal.

Mario-Rijo
07-26-2012, 10:15 PM
Nobody is untouchable in my opinion. Everybody has a price. Everybody is replaceable.

How much trade value would you guys think Joey Votto would have right now? I actually think he would have very little trade value because of his contract. Any team that acquires him would be committing themselves to pay him $250 million so I doubt they would be willing to throw in some talented players on top of that. The only way the Reds could get anything for Votto is if they agree to pay some of his contract as part of the deal.

According to Dave Cameron he is still the 26th best value in baseball after he signed his contract.

Click here for the complete list.

Fangraphs Link (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2012-trade-value-25-21/)


26. (7) Joey Votto, 1B, Cincinnati – Signed through 2023 for $246 million

With a 10 year, $225 million extension that doesn’t even kick in until 2014, Votto became one of the most expensive players in the sport. However, because he’s still just 28, the cost of the deal is deferred well into the future, and any team acquiring him would essentially be getting the best hitter in baseball at bargain rates for the next half decade or so. There’s a ton of value in the front of this contract, and so while the last few years are likely going to bring negative returns, large revenue franchises would love to have him even with his new sticker price. There might not be a large quantity of bidders, but several teams would pay a high price to add Votto to their line-up right now and deal with the financial consequences in 2020 and beyond when that gets here.

fearofpopvol1
07-26-2012, 10:45 PM
No untouchables. But it would be really difficult for me to trade Cueto. I'm also not sure about trading Chapman. Not as a pen arm, but a rotation arm. But whether we ever find out how he'd do there remains to be seen.

I would trade Votto in the right package for sure, because as others have pointed out, he gets expensive pretty soon.

AtomicDumpling
07-26-2012, 11:03 PM
According to Dave Cameron he is still the 26th best value in baseball after he signed his contract.

Click here for the complete list.

Fangraphs Link (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2012-trade-value-25-21/)

That is interesting. I can believe that a few teams would be willing to pay the cash, but I can't imagine they would trade some real talent on top of that. I mean this winter anybody in the league could have had Albert Pujols for that kind of money without giving up any prospects or current stars in trade yet only one or two teams offered him $200 million or more. I bet the Reds could trade Votto, but not for the type of haul some people are imagining the Reds could get in return.

camisadelgolf
07-26-2012, 11:25 PM
That is interesting. I can believe that a few teams would be willing to pay the cash, but I can't imagine they would trade some real talent on top of that. I mean this winter anybody in the league could have had Albert Pujols for that kind of money without giving up any prospects or current stars in trade yet only one or two teams offered him $200 million or more. I bet the Reds could trade Votto, but not for the type of haul some people are imagining the Reds could get in return.
One would argue that Votto had more production value at the time, too. I think his performance so far this year has gotten so much more attention than in the past, and that's what has driven his value up so much. He's playing like a legend this year. Like Frank Robinson in his prime.