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View Full Version : How do we handle Devin's issue



brm7675
07-31-2012, 03:22 PM
Well he is probably looking at anywhere from 5-10 games suspended for his disagreement with the homeplate ump last night. Now I keep hearing we can't replace his roster spot, thus we will be playing a man down during those games, but the Reds MUST bring up another catcher. Problem is neither AAA catchers are on 40 man roster. So what do the Reds do?

Wonderful Monds
07-31-2012, 03:24 PM
Why can't we replace his roster spot? If a player is suspend he isn't on the 25 man roster.

Cut Costanzo from the 40 man and call up Navarro.

Mr.Redleg82
07-31-2012, 03:25 PM
Why can't Hanigan play all the games while he's suspended? He gets a bulk of the PT anyway.

brm7675
07-31-2012, 03:32 PM
Why can't we replace his roster spot? If a player is suspend he isn't on the 25 man roster.

Cut Costanzo from the 40 man and call up Navarro.

According to Chris Welch last night, one a player is suspended you can not replace his roster spot, thus you play a man down. Not sure if that is correct, but that is what they were reporting.

MrRedLegger
07-31-2012, 03:33 PM
Why can't Hanigan play all the games while he's suspended? He gets a bulk of the PT anyway.

That's what is going to happen, but a rule of thumb is that you absolutely NEED 2 catchers. If you only have one and for some reason he goes down, you might as well forefeit.

brm7675
07-31-2012, 03:33 PM
Why can't Hanigan play all the games while he's suspended? He gets a bulk of the PT anyway.

What if he gets hurt, whom is your backup?

Mr.Redleg82
07-31-2012, 03:34 PM
What if he gets hurt, whom is your backup?

Valdez, he plays everywhere else.

brm7675
07-31-2012, 03:36 PM
Valdez, he plays everywhere else.

So you are okay with going with just one catcher, making him catch all the upcoming games and not have a reliable backup...:confused:

Ironman92
07-31-2012, 03:38 PM
What if he gets hurt, whom is your backup?

When has Hanigan ever gotten hurt?

brm7675
07-31-2012, 03:39 PM
When has Hanigan ever gotten hurt?

Just the other night...

Girevik
07-31-2012, 03:39 PM
If something did happen to Hannigan, you'd only be stuck for that one game. You could always bring up the guy from AAA for the next game.

code
07-31-2012, 03:41 PM
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Corky+Miller+Cincinnati+Reds+Photo+Day+iUxQxm_UdMJ l.jpg

Mr.Redleg82
07-31-2012, 03:42 PM
So you are okay with going with just one catcher, making him catch all the upcoming games and not have a reliable backup...:confused:


No, but I'd see what Valdez could do. We don't have another catcher on the 40 man. Why make things weird for a 10 game suspension at most? Hanigan has been pretty healthy, enough for me not to worry about it. Worst case scenario you plug someone in for one or two games.

Wonderful Monds
07-31-2012, 03:45 PM
No, but I'd see what Valdez could do. We don't have another catcher on the 40 man. Why make things weird for a 10 game suspension at most? Hanigan has been pretty healthy, enough for me not to worry about it. Worst case scenario you plug someone in for one or two games.

That absolutely won't and should not happen. Catcher isn't just a position on the field.


If Mes is gone a catcher will be recalled to take his place.

Mr.Redleg82
07-31-2012, 03:48 PM
That absolutely won't and should not happen. Catcher isn't just a position on the field.


If Mes is gone a catcher will be recalled to take his place.

You're prob right, I'm not involved in professional baseball in any way, at best I'm a mediocre armchair GM.


All I'm saying is, I think you could get away with having 1 catcher for 10 games. If Hanigan gets hurt then you call someone up.

'69 & Vine
07-31-2012, 03:53 PM
Who is talking 10 games? That's crazy. Five games, max.

Dioneer will be the man!

Mr.Redleg82
07-31-2012, 03:55 PM
Who is talking 10 games? That's crazy. Five games, max.

Dioneer will be the man!



5 games, would only validate my point.

Someone said 5-10 games. Wouldn't mind seeing what Dioneer play, but what corresponding move do the reds make?

Chris Sabowned
07-31-2012, 03:59 PM
I thought Pappelbum got 3 games last year for a similar incident?

I don't think it'll be a very big deal.

justincredible
07-31-2012, 06:01 PM
Yadi only got 5 games and he bumped and spit on an ump. Anything more than 5 games would absolutely absurd. I think 3 sounds about right.

R_Webb18
07-31-2012, 06:16 PM
def not going to be 10

'69 & Vine
07-31-2012, 08:04 PM
5 games, would only validate my point.

Someone said 5-10 games. Wouldn't mind seeing what Dioneer play, but what corresponding move do the reds make?

There's a post in the Emergency Catcher thread in the ORG that answers this nicely. There are a lot of simple moves that the Reds can make.

Trajinous
07-31-2012, 08:16 PM
The Reds will be fine during his possible suspension. Nothing has been rules yet.

Larkin88
07-31-2012, 08:59 PM
Reds DFA'd Brackman today, so there's a spot open on the 40 for a catcher to take. I'm guessing that catcher is going to be Navarro. To make room for him on the roster, the Reds will have to remove someone from the 25 man (or 24 in the case of suspension) as well. Heisey and Frazier are, I believe, the only two position players who aren't out of options.

I am inclined to agree that if a suspension happens, so too will a corresponding move for a catcher. Nice to have Valdez-like guys as insurance policies when absolutely needed, but I don't think that's a risk worth taking at the catching position. Especially behind the dish. I also agree that it's excessive to think it will be 10 games, but I've been wrong before.

Barring another move, I think Navarro will probably stay on the 40 man even after he's sent back down. I'm sure he'll be a consideration when roster's expand, especially as a switch hitter.

Redmond is up today, but I'm guessing Broxton takes his spot tomorrow and depending on the suspension, there might be another 40 man roster move on the horizon if needed.

R_Webb18
07-31-2012, 11:26 PM
but broxton takes brackman spot. he's the only person we got rid of on the 40 man. so in order to add someone we would have to remove someone else?

Jefferson24
08-01-2012, 12:11 AM
but broxton takes brackman spot. he's the only person we got rid of on the 40 man. so in order to add someone we would have to remove someone else?

I believe that is right, there will still need to be a cut.

Girevik
08-01-2012, 02:53 PM
Heisey and Frazier are, I believe, the only two position players who aren't out of options.

That can't be right can it? Cozart and Paul at the very least should both have options left.

I think they stand pat with an emergency catcher getting a bit of work there in pre-game just in case, and they'll worry about a move if somthing happens to Hannigan. There's no reason to make a move just to have a backup for a couple of games.

R_Webb18
08-01-2012, 02:57 PM
plenty of people have options. stubbs, bruce, cozart, heisey, frazier, a lot more

Larkin88
08-01-2012, 02:58 PM
That can't be right can it? Cozart and Paul at the very least should both have options left.

I'm pretty sure that is correct... Thought I heard them talking about that on WLW in the wake of this story.

Daugherty seemed to corroborate that in The Morning Line yesterday (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/daugherty/2012/07/31/the-morning-line-731/), too, so maybe that's why it's sticking in my mind (right or wrong). Or I'm missing some crucial context.

EDIT: Does anyone know if there's a good resource to actually confirm how many options players on our roster have left? Would like to explore this more.

Stray
08-01-2012, 04:43 PM
Suspended 3 games. Our next three starters?

Arroyo
Cueto
Latos

Could not have worked out any better for us, Mes doesn't catch those guys anyway.

KYRedLeg
08-01-2012, 04:45 PM
Suspended 3 games. Our next three starters?

Arroyo
Cueto
Latos

Could not have worked out any better for us, Mes doesn't catch those guys anyway.

That was my exact thought. Couldn't have happened at a better time in the rotation, but our bench is looking mighty thin right now.

brm7675
08-01-2012, 04:47 PM
So who is the backup?

Mr.Redleg82
08-01-2012, 04:49 PM
So who is the backup?

You've got Navarro in AAA, and the crafty mustached Corky Miller in the bullpen. Could Corky play if we REALLY needed him?

R_Webb18
08-01-2012, 04:49 PM
So who is the backup?

this.

no one on 40 man.

Stray
08-01-2012, 04:50 PM
Fay tweeted that Redmond packed up his stuff so there's a roster move...just dunno what yet.

R_Webb18
08-01-2012, 04:50 PM
Fay tweeted that Redmond packed up his stuff so there's a roster move...just dunno what yet.

thats gonna be brox

Stray
08-01-2012, 04:51 PM
thats gonna be brox

I thought we opened a spot for him by putting Bray on the DL? So much is going on I can't keep track

Mr.Redleg82
08-01-2012, 04:52 PM
Poor Redmond, yet to pitch in the majors and he's been called up twice for a grand total of 48 hours.

sdwagers
08-01-2012, 04:56 PM
here's a wild thought... do you DL Mes for dizzyness or Phillps for the calf)? Mes will still have to serve the suspension - but you delay things this way (heck maybe for the month) could then DFA Constanzo to clear the roster spot for Dioner. You could use Dioner as extra lefty bat in the process as well

R_Webb18
08-01-2012, 04:56 PM
I thought we opened a spot for him by putting Bray on the DL? So much is going on I can't keep track

redmond has already been on 40 man

we got rid of some guy yesterday so brox can take his spot on 40 man

so brox is taking redmond spot

bray i think went on 15 day dl and i don't think you can replace him unless he is on 60 day dl

sdwagers
08-01-2012, 04:56 PM
I thought we opened a spot for him by putting Bray on the DL? So much is going on I can't keep track


Brox is taking Brays spot (Redmond's spot)

Stray
08-01-2012, 04:59 PM
Hmm I'm now pretty confused on the whole thing. Mes is appealing and is active tonight. It'll all get sorted out at some point.

Larkin88
08-01-2012, 05:14 PM
Hmm I'm now pretty confused on the whole thing. Mes is appealing and is active tonight. It'll all get sorted out at some point.

If Mes appeals the suspension (as he is) that buys the Reds a few more days or maybe even weeks to evaluate whether Phillips boo boo is going to land him on the DL or not.

If Phillips goes on the DL, I suspect that you will see Navarro promoted and Mesaroco serve his suspension. There's a lot of dead weight on the 40 man whose spot he could take. In fact, you may see the 40 man move before anything else happens since its one that would probably happen before rosters expand anyway.

40YrRedsFan
08-01-2012, 05:21 PM
According to MLB network, Mes has officially received a 3 game suspension

P.E.R#14
08-01-2012, 05:22 PM
I don't know if the Reds have one in place, but most teams have (or at least used to have) an emergency third catcher who is usually someone who has rarely, if ever, caught in the bigs. A friend of mine named Jeff Reboulet was a utility infielder for a number of teams and was the emergency third catcher if needed. He actually caught a game in 1995 for the Twins. This isn't an answer to replacing Mesoraco, but an way to avoid optioningsomeone and a backup plan if (Heaven forbid) Hannigan was injured during Mesoraco's suspension.

Not terribly concerned about this issue.

Go Reds!

Larkin88
08-01-2012, 05:30 PM
I don't know if the Reds have one in place, but most teams have (or at least used to have) an emergency third catcher who is usually someone who has rarely, if ever, caught in the bigs. A friend of mine named Jeff Reboulet was a utility infielder for a number of teams and was the emergency third catcher if needed. He actually caught a game in 1995 for the Twins. This isn't an answer to replacing Mesoraco, but an way to avoid optioningsomeone and a backup plan if (Heaven forbid) Hannigan was injured during Mesoraco's suspension.

Not terribly concerned about this issue.

Go Reds!

I suspect without seeing one formally named that guy would be Valdez. And while I'm not going to look it up right now, think he may have actually played a game or two there in the minors.

He was the Phillies emergency catcher (http://articles.philly.com/2011-04-04/sports/29380527_1_rush-bullpen-coach-catcher)last season.

sdwagers
08-01-2012, 05:41 PM
I suspect without seeing one formally named that guy would be Valdez. And while I'm not going to look it up right now, think he may have actually played a game or two there in the minors.

He was the Phillies emergency catcher (http://articles.philly.com/2011-04-04/sports/29380527_1_rush-bullpen-coach-catcher)last season.

from the article -

"Please, God, no," Valdez said.

The 32-year-old utility man said he played catcher once - as a 20-year-old for Montreal's Dominican summer-league team in 1998.

"Hopefully, that never happens again," he said.

Kingspoint
08-01-2012, 05:55 PM
First, I hate the title of this thread, "How do "we" handle Mesoraco?"

"We" don't do anything.


That said, I love everything that Mesoraco did and represented during his time behind the plate.

The Catcher is the Sergeant. He personifies the character and the grit of the team.

Also, Mesoraco did not do anything wrong. Any suspension is a joke.

His finger may have scraped the uniform of the umpire, but that was the fault of the umpire's for standing so close. Mesoraco was talking with his hand the whole time, and the umpire clearly closed the gap leaving no room for error.

The umpire needs suspended for escalating a situation that had no business becoming what it became.

A thousand cheers to you, Mesoraco.

And, to all who have suggested that Mesoraco has "anger issues" and hurt the team by not controlling his temper, phooey on you. This isn't ballet, croquet, or tiddly-winks. It's major-league baseball where 300-pound pitchers throw strikes and 250-pound players come barreling in at full-speed trying to knock your head off in hopes that you drop the ball. And, this paisley umpire is going to cry like a baby because he brushed up against the tip of Mes' finger?

How dare anyone make Mes the bad guy with any portion of this.

They kept the right guy in Mesoraco over Grandel. Mes is a real Catcher, a leader, a cornerstone of this franchise as much as Votto is. Mesoraco is just that....a rock behind the plate.

Larkin88
08-01-2012, 05:55 PM
Per Fay:


@johnfayman Mesoraco's appeal will likely be heard within two weeks. #Reds will add a catcher if suspension is upheld -- johnfayman

brm7675
08-01-2012, 05:59 PM
An appeal is just flat out stupid...

Kingspoint
08-01-2012, 05:59 PM
I don't know if the Reds have one in place, but most teams have (or at least used to have) an emergency third catcher who is usually someone who has rarely, if ever, caught in the bigs. A friend of mine named Jeff Reboulet was a utility infielder for a number of teams and was the emergency third catcher if needed. He actually caught a game in 1995 for the Twins. This isn't an answer to replacing Mesoraco, but an way to avoid optioningsomeone and a backup plan if (Heaven forbid) Hannigan was injured during Mesoraco's suspension.

Not terribly concerned about this issue.

Go Reds!

Agree.

As great a utility player as Frazier has been, I wouldn't hesitate to put Frazier back there for a couple of innings in the event there was an emergency and Hanigan had to leave the game.

Kingspoint
08-01-2012, 06:00 PM
An appeal is just flat out stupid...The suspension is stupid, it should be appealed.

BLEEDS
08-01-2012, 06:00 PM
It's 3 games.
No biggy.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

brm7675
08-01-2012, 06:36 PM
The suspension is stupid, it should be appealed.

Hey touched the ump...you can't do that...lucky its only three games.

sdwagers
08-01-2012, 11:57 PM
here's a wild thought... do you DL Mes for dizzyness or Phillps for the calf)? Mes will still have to serve the suspension - but you delay things this way (heck maybe for the month) could then DFA Constanzo to clear the roster spot for Dioner. You could use Dioner as extra lefty bat in the process as well


well thanks Walt.... Toot. Toot.

Larkin88
08-02-2012, 10:30 AM
An appeal is just flat out stupid...

Given that your agenda this week is that Phillips should be on the 15-day DL no matter what, an appeal here would be stupid to you.

For the rest of us who hope that Phillips does in fact just need a day or two of rest, an appeal makes all the sense in the world.

'69 & Vine
08-02-2012, 12:04 PM
They kept the right guy in Mesoraco over Grandel. Mes is a real Catcher, a leader, a cornerstone of this franchise as much as Votto is. Mesoraco is just that....a rock behind the plate.

That's awfully high praise that isn't backed up with much performance. Compared to Grandal, I'd take Grandal, even with a small sample size of 2012 ABs, I think it's clear Grandal is going to be much better offensively and a wash defensively.

The_Mudshark
08-02-2012, 12:07 PM
That's awfully high praise that isn't backed up with much performance. Compared to Grandal, I'd take Grandal, even with a small sample size of 2012 ABs, I think it's clear Grandal is going to be much better offensively and a wash defensively.

+1

BungleBengals
08-02-2012, 12:22 PM
First off, I think it is the ump's fault. He escalated the situation by going nuts when Mes accidently touched him with his finger. I think that is what set Mes off was the ump was complaining about that instead of explaining his strike zone.

Second, I think, while ridiculous, Mes should serve his suspension now. It is only 3 games and he takes 3 days off anyways when it is Hannigan's turn. Not to mention, this appeal is going to hang over his head for 2 weeks in the middle of a division race.

Finally, I have a quick question. Since Mes is on the DL, and say he drops the appeal, can that count as his 3 games, or would he have to serve them after coming off the DL?

Larkin88
08-02-2012, 12:31 PM
Finally, I have a quick question. Since Mes is on the DL, and say he drops the appeal, can that count as his 3 games, or would he have to serve them after coming off the DL?

It's a good question. I still suspect the appeal was tied to the dubious circumstances of when Phillips will be back. The move for Navarro makes sense because Mes is not going to win his appeal and will have to serve some time eventually. But by not serving it now, the team doesn't lose a spot on the roster, which extends their window to evaluate whether Phillips needs to go on the DL or not.

As the appeal process takes about two weeks, and he's only on the 7 day DL, I think it's pretty certain that Mes will serve his suspension after he returns from the DL in this instance. As far as the general MLB rules for it, though, I'm not exactly sure. Never sat well with me that Volquez could serve his PED suspension while on the DL, so I'm not sure what the letter of the law has to say about it.

Kingspoint
08-02-2012, 06:10 PM
That's awfully high praise that isn't backed up with much performance. Compared to Grandal, I'd take Grandal, even with a small sample size of 2012 ABs, I think it's clear Grandal is going to be much better offensively and a wash defensively.Grandal should be the better Offensive player immediately, and maybe long-term. But, there's no "wash" in these two defensively. Mesoraco will be the better Captain, the better Defender. I got to watch (from a distance) five years of Mesoraco's growth defensively, and Grandel spent little, if any time, down in the Minors perfecting his craft defensively. As a result, Mesoraco's fundamentals defensively will FAR OUTSHINE Grandal's. It's going to be hard to measure a Catcher's Defensive abilities with any kind of a stat. It's going to have to come from the reputations they receive around the league from others. For example, throwing runners out is a small item compared to how a player handles a pitcher and prepares for a game with the Pitching Coach and the pitcher-of-the-day. There is nothing to measure this with, so again, we'll have to refer to the "word around the league" who is better defensively over time. That will take a few years, of course. In the meantime, I'll enjoy the fruit that is Mat Latos from the Grandal trade along with watching Mesoraco continue to mature into a cornerstone of this franchise.

Jr's Boy
08-02-2012, 06:17 PM
First, I hate the title of this thread, "How do "we" handle Mesoraco?"

"We" don't do anything.


That said, I love everything that Mesoraco did and represented during his time behind the plate.

The Catcher is the Sergeant. He personifies the character and the grit of the team.

Also, Mesoraco did not do anything wrong. Any suspension is a joke.

His finger may have scraped the uniform of the umpire, but that was the fault of the umpire's for standing so close. Mesoraco was talking with his hand the whole time, and the umpire clearly closed the gap leaving no room for error.

The umpire needs suspended for escalating a situation that had no business becoming what it became.

A thousand cheers to you, Mesoraco.

And, to all who have suggested that Mesoraco has "anger issues" and hurt the team by not controlling his temper, phooey on you. This isn't ballet, croquet, or tiddly-winks. It's major-league baseball where 300-pound pitchers throw strikes and 250-pound players come barreling in at full-speed trying to knock your head off in hopes that you drop the ball. And, this paisley umpire is going to cry like a baby because he brushed up against the tip of Mes' finger?

How dare anyone make Mes the bad guy with any portion of this.

They kept the right guy in Mesoraco over Grandel. Mes is a real Catcher, a leader, a cornerstone of this franchise as much as Votto is. Mesoraco is just that....a rock behind the plate.

Yes I cringed at that title.''We''watch the games and support the Reds.

RedsFanInBama
08-02-2012, 06:18 PM
I'm actually pretty glad Hanigan is going to be getting some more time now. Mes makes me a nervous wreck defensively and obviously he's not been very good with the stick either. I guess Navarro might get a start while Mes is out, then we'll go back to the regular rotation.

Kingspoint
08-02-2012, 06:35 PM
I'm actually pretty glad Hanigan is going to be getting some more time now. Mes makes me a nervous wreck defensively and obviously he's not been very good with the stick either. I guess Navarro might get a start while Mes is out, then we'll go back to the regular rotation.Hanigan has got to be the most under-appreciated Cincinnati RED since he's worn it's uniform...both by the fans and by Dusty Baker. All the guy does is produce, but gets little credit and less playing time for it.